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Skills we were never taught
98
A 3 Minute Lesson
on Ending Conflict
Communication Skills-
Don't Be Invalidating
Listen with Empathy -
A Powerful Life Skill
Setting Boundaries
and Setting Limits
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Author Topic: Annoyed but trying to stay calm...  (Read 1071 times)
hopefulbutlost17
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« on: November 07, 2018, 11:25:21 AM »

My ex and I have been on pretty good terms lately.  I've kept my distance and unavailability up too (she's used me dropping everything for her).  The transition has been good, no outbursts or fights.  

I'm usually the one that sends the "good morning" text message every day. If I don't, a comment is made.  We use whatsapp as our form of communication.  Sent my routine "good morning" and nothing.  She had already logged on today and no response, but can respond to someone else?  Then, I get a video call from her, but I can't answer because I have a class.  So I messaged and asked "did you call" and she responds "no not at all" and I asked "being sarcastic?" no answer from her, I video call her, no answer. At this point, I'm annoyed. Does anyone else experience this and just want to do the same to them as they do to us?  I'm trying to calm myself down and not respond in a negative way, but at this point it's like I'm not even worth a reply...

Now, as I'm typing this she video calls me and says "finally you answer" and i can tell she's in an annoyed mood.  I ask what's wrong and she says "I'm tired" that's her response all the time.  The connection is poor where I am and she just sends me a message saying "just text me I'm going to the gym anyways." Soo what's the point in video calling me when you clearly know I'm at work?  

I know it's tough to get in their head and try to "predict" what they are thinking but this drives me nuts.  Anyone else experience this? Any advice?
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« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2018, 11:51:46 AM »

I experience similar things in text messaging... .
If I take long to reply - even when I have a good excuse why - he'll punish me by taking even longer. Sometimes he'll stay away for days without an excuse, but when I stay away for only a few hours, he'll double text and tell me he sees I don't care... .

I wish I'd know what he's thinking. Wish I had advice for you but all I can say is that starting to pay back for what hurts us won't have a positive effect on our relationships to them.
I think staying unaffected is the way to go, but I'd love to hear other opinions on this.
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hopefulbutlost17
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« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2018, 12:00:28 PM »

Well, apparently I’m being punished for asking too many questions cause I am being ignored. She logged on again to obviously answer someone who she is idealizing but ignored my message. I am honestly about to get ready to just send a text saying “I understand you’re tired and have things going on... at the same time, if you’re going to ignore my messages I’d appreciate it if you told me... thanks” I know it may spark up a fight or trigger her but it’s not fair. I’m teying very hard to detach and ignore her haha joe but it shouldn’t be rewarded or enabled that when she finally decides to stop ignoring me,  have to make it seem like nothing happened.

However, I think I figured out my own answer... I’m wondering if anyone, including you FIL, would help see if I may be on the right track before I go on my own outburst haha...



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« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2018, 12:39:01 PM »

I have learned to take it or leave it when communicating with H via text or messenger.

I realize the protocol is for me to respond in a timely manner or he feels abandoned and ignored, but he can ignore or choose to not worry about responding to ANYONE, ever. 

The problem, I see, with texts and messaging, is that both parties tend to expect an immediate response, or even both parties feel a response is required.  Neither is true.  Now, I try to respond to H, but I also try to be conscientious about letting him know, now, "I'm going to a meeting, won't be logged on for a few hours."  "I will be in that weird room with no signal, let you know when I'm out so we can meet for lunch."  This helps a little stave off the "you're ignoring me" anger-rage.

On the converse, I try to not get super emotionally tied to whether he answers my "how are you doing" a few hours into the morning message.  I also don't really worry too much when I am waiting to see if he can go to lunch.  If he takes too long, has been called away himself, and I have a schedule to meet, I send the most validating message I can, and go grab food. 

I also try to not respond or immediately respond to comments that seem pissy, moody, or like he is trying to pick a fight. 

If your GF is in a mood, and ignoring you, it's a form of silent treatment.  Just go about your day as you can, be conscientious yourself, and keep the bar kind of low for her (I know it's not fair, but they are emotionally disabled).  Act as if nothing is wrong.  Don't pick up on her fleas and make yourself worry until she gives you an actual reason to worry. 
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hopefulbutlost17
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« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2018, 01:03:01 PM »

Hi isilme,

Thanks for your point of view.  She is my ex and really has no ties to me and I don't need to know about her business and vice versa.  However, receiving this silent treatment is not fair and I am trying to detach from it.  

She did log on again without replying to me, btw. I think,  or should i say, I know, that me asking "too many questions" triggered her in some way cause it has in the past.  She is in a mood and I'm remembering it from a conversation we had last night in regards to a mutual friend (well he is no longer my friend, but that's a diff story).  I knew this friend before her and introduced them.  Long story short, this guy friend and I stopped talking but my ex and him continued to hang out. (Mind you he is way older than she and I). She texted me asking if R had ever crossed the line with me (making unwanted comments and touching, etc.)  I told her my experience with him and how I handled it.  I asked her why she was asking and she said that he has been touching her inappropriately for a while now.  She said that she has asked him to stop and has even changed her mood with him but he continues his advances (touching her butt, asking for kisses on his cheek, he giving her kisses on her cheek, wanting to hold her hand, and him complaining she doesn't love him).  She very much dislikes when people touch her without asking or her wanting it; she says it makes her feel dirty.  This was our conversation last night before I ended the night and went to sleep.  So on the video call she mentioned she didn't go to sleep until 2:30 am.  I'm thinking, she's still triggered from that experience yesterday cause she said it really bothered her.  Asking her too many questions triggered her annoyance again along with her not getting enough sleep, so now I'm getting "punished" and getting the silent treatment...

Correct me if I am wrong (anyone)? I'm just trying to not take this personal and find the source of this silent treatment so i don't go crazy thinking it is me.
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« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2018, 07:38:52 PM »

why do the "good morning" text on a daily basis? that sort of thing always seemed to me like a burden. you dont have any enthusiasm in sending it (understandably), shes used to it and takes it for granted (understandably), and the whole thing is just frustrating both of you. even with the video call, youre both just contacting each other out of obligation with nothing to say, and it sounds miserable for both of you.

why not change things up?
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hopefulbutlost17
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2018, 01:32:12 AM »

why do the "good morning" text on a daily basis? that sort of thing always seemed to me like a burden. you dont have any enthusiasm in sending it (understandably), shes used to it and takes it for granted (understandably), and the whole thing is just frustrating both of you. even with the video call, youre both just contacting each other out of obligation with nothing to say, and it sounds miserable for both of you.

why not change things up?

How can I change things up? Please let me know. Once again, I have been pushed aside and taken for granted

Update: long sorry short, I found out she went to Vegas with an old mutual friend. Said she wasn’t having a good time and he was crossing the line with her. She came back today (Friday) and said she wanted to see me after she saw her friend C. I said that I was at a football game and I should be home by the time she was done with her friend. Around 12 am I messaged her asking if she was still with her friend and she said “yes, relax, I’ll be there in a bit. I’m going to stay with you if that’s okay”. I said “yes, but what time are you leaving”. She replied “1am”. Really? Mind you, she called me at 10pm asking to see me and stay with me, said she had a gift for ke from her trip yet I have to wait until she’s done? Instead of raging, I said “don’t worry, take your time, we can do this tomorrow. I have a training tomorrow” she got upset and said “ugh, I’ll leave you alone by” I then said “no worries, I don’t want you to be rushed. We can do this tomorrow. Goodnight” she then replied “no bye” and I didn’t reply. Now I can’t sleep cause I’m angry and hurt. I know I shouldn’t have expected much from her anymore but this sucks and will not be tolerated. And if I know her, she’s going to turn this around on me and say that I should’ve waited, she didn’t have to get me anything but she did, I’m selfish, I’m ckntrolling cause I questioned her spending time with her friend, etc.

This sucks.
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hopefulbutlost17
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« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2018, 12:08:49 PM »

Update:

My ex FaceTimed me this morning and I avoided talking to her about last night. Then she brought it up again saying she’s going out tonight and that’s why she wanted to drop off my gift last night. So I tried to calmly say that I though it was inconsiderate of her to have me waiting until 1am for her to come over.
 Her: “you never told me about this training before”
 Me: “i understand at the same time I didn’t think it was considerate that you wanted to come over at 1am. I didn’t think you were going to take that long with your friend”

Then she just hung up on me. Now I’m getting messages saying
Her: “why do you try to piss me off. You never mentioned a training before. Second you said it was fine for me to go with C before seeing you. That’s why I asked if you wanted me to drop off your gift. Seriously that’s annoying”

Mind you. She told me she wasn’t going to take long with her friend (she ended up being there for 3 hours!) and this is my fault?
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« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2018, 12:47:49 PM »

and this is my fault?

the whole thing is kind of a silly squabble.

given she was back from a trip, it was safe to count on her taking a while with a friend. fair enough that you needed to get to bed, and another day would have been better. fair enough to say that and if she gets mad she gets mad.

but to go back and forth on this doesnt seem like the sort of hill youd want to die on.

if it were me, id say something like

"my bad. i didnt let you know about the training, and i needed to get to bed, but im glad you got to spend time with your friend. id still like to see you, so let me know when a good time would be and we will get together".

and if she wants to keep up the fight, let her, dont kick the ball.

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« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2018, 01:06:07 PM »

the whole thing is kind of a silly squabble.

given she was back from a trip, it was safe to count on her taking a while with a friend. fair enough that you needed to get to bed, and another day would have been better. fair enough to say that and if she gets mad she gets mad.

but to go back and forth on this doesnt seem like the sort of hill youd want to die on.

if it were me, id say something like

"my bad. i didnt let you know about the training, and i needed to get to bed, but im glad you got to spend time with your friend. id still like to see you, so let me know when a good time would be and we will get together".

and if she wants to keep up the fight, let her, dont kick the ball.



My thoughts exactly. This is a silly thing. I wasn’t even upset, bothered, yes. But not upset. I even said let’s reschedule so you don’t have to rush with spending time with your friend. But if course she went off went I tried to express that it was inconsiderate. My mistake to do so, because then she went off. Her: “you’re so selfish and ungrateful. I’m thinking of you when I shouldn’t. There’s no time limit with my friends. You always did that and made me wait. Go ahead and blame me, I’m jsed to you doing that. All you cared about was your gift”.
Me: “i can see you’re annoyed... .we can agree to disagree. No blame on anyone. Just miscommunication on both parts. I’m glad you got to spend time with your friends. I’d really like to see you. So let me know when you have some time” 

And I was left on “read”
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« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2018, 01:18:34 PM »

I wasn’t even upset, bothered, yes. But not upset. I even said let’s reschedule so you don’t have to rush with spending time with your friend. But if course she went off went I tried to express that it was inconsiderate.

she mentioned that you didnt mention the training. was not mentioning the training inconsiderate?

you didnt own that, you responded to her complaint with a complaint. thats just pouting and pointing fingers.

im not trying to take her side here, just offering a perspective. the training is kind of an aside, and not worth fighting about, its just the reason you needed to get to bed, and there were more constructive ways to go about rescheduling. was it inconsiderate of her? given the circumstances, that she was back from a trip, i would have bet a thousand bucks that she (or anyone) would have taken a while catching up with their friend, and that her next plans would be pushed back. its inconvenient, but it happens.

Me: “i can see you’re annoyed... .we can agree to disagree. No blame on anyone. Just miscommunication on both parts. I’m glad you got to spend time with your friends. I’d really like to see you. So let me know when you have some time”  

this is a little bit on the condescending side  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

"boy, youre being a pill. its cool though. when can you come over?"

if you want to own something and resolve the conflict, dont do the "both parts" thing... .it only invites defensiveness and pushback.
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hopefulbutlost17
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« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2018, 01:50:59 PM »

she mentioned that you didnt mention the training. was not mentioning the training inconsiderate?

you didnt own that, you responded to her complaint with a complaint. thats just pouting and pointing fingers.

im not trying to take her side here, just offering a perspective. the training is kind of an aside, and not worth fighting about, its just the reason you needed to get to bed, and there were more constructive ways to go about rescheduling. was it inconsiderate of her? given the circumstances, that she was back from a trip, i would have bet a thousand bucks that she (or anyone) would have taken a while catching up with their friend, and that her next plans would be pushed back. its inconvenient, but it happens.

this is a little bit on the condescending side  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

"boy, youre being a pill. its cool though. when can you come over?"

if you want to own something and resolve the conflict, dont do the "both parts" thing... .it only invites defensiveness and pushback.

I see your point on all this.

I can see how I’m responding to a complaint with a complaint. I guess I was just bothered that she took longer than she had said she would and she expected me to wait all night long for her. Thank you for your perspective. I guess I just have to work now until she returns back to baseline. I suppose it’s hard to see it the way you do, but I’m trying to learn.
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« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2018, 01:54:01 PM »

much harder when youre in it, for sure.

its an inconvenience, but one that happens in relationships very commonly, like when youve got dinner reservations and one partner is taking too long to get ready.
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« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2018, 02:08:08 PM »

as for changing things up... .

dont rock the boat, especially right now. its probably not something you want to announce, either, or just stop doing all together.

the point is that its an obligatory, forced conversation. thats no fun. i suspect she doesnt ignore it to give you the silent treatment. i suspect she just doesnt make it a priority to respond because shes used to it, and its just "good morning". the only thing to say to that is "good morning"... .no one would be in a hurry to do that. she probably forgets.

so if you want to talk to her daily, drop the "good morning", and let it be organic, natural, light, upbeat, fun, interesting. have something to talk about.

and maybe start doing it in slower increments. like if you normally send it at 930, maybe send it at 10 or 1030. maybe take a little longer the next week. slowly get out of the entrenched, and forced, pattern, so conversation between you two can be organic, and breathe.

does that make sense?
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hopefulbutlost17
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« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2018, 02:40:43 PM »

as for changing things up... .

dont rock the boat, especially right now. its probably not something you want to announce, either, or just stop doing all together.

the point is that its an obligatory, forced conversation. thats no fun. i suspect she doesnt ignore it to give you the silent treatment. i suspect she just doesnt make it a priority to respond because shes used to it, and its just "good morning". the only thing to say to that is "good morning"... .no one would be in a hurry to do that. she probably forgets.

so if you want to talk to her daily, drop the "good morning", and let it be organic, natural, light, upbeat, fun, interesting. have something to talk about.

and maybe start doing it in slower increments. like if you normally send it at 930, maybe send it at 10 or 1030. maybe take a little longer the next week. slowly get out of the entrenched, and forced, pattern, so conversation between you two can be organic, and breathe.

does that make sense?

Funny you say to take longer, I have been doing that lately. I usually send the “good morning” when I wake up (she makes a comment if I don’t and she wakes up to no message). But her schedule has changed as well so when I get to work and settle in, I’ll send a message. before it would be around 5:30am (I wake up for the gym) now it’s between 7 and 9:20 am. She does make comments though if she knows I’m awake and doesn’t receive a message (she knows my schedule). It’s just difficult when you’re in it, like you said. It’s also difficult to accept that it’s okay for her to do it but if I were to do it all hell breaks loose. That’s the cycle I would like to break. Any suggestions? I’d like for her tonplace herself in my shoes just like I try to do so with her.
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« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2018, 04:19:26 PM »

try not taking the bait when she makes the comments. she just has difficulty adjusting, probably ruminates on the reasons why, decides on the wrong ones, and throws them at you. by defending yourself, you may be validating the invalid. underneath it all, shes just asking for a little reassurance.

dont necessarily give her that directly (dont tell her you want to reassure her or fight with her feelings). try just responding with something light, upbeat, fun, etc. let it bounce off of you. if she escalates, starts getting nasty, that might be the point to exit the conversation rather than fight her on it.

shes needy, and shes not going to necessarily play fair. the idea is not to get caught up in it. just like its innocent if you dont message her, its innocent if she doesnt get back to you for a while.

trying to get across "see, this is how you treat me, and this is how i will treat you if you treat me that way", is blurry boundaries. that drives the cycle rather than breaking it.
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hopefulbutlost17
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« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2018, 05:51:46 PM »

try not taking the bait when she makes the comments. she just has difficulty adjusting, probably ruminates on the reasons why, decides on the wrong ones, and throws them at you. by defending yourself, you may be validating the invalid. underneath it all, shes just asking for a little reassurance.

dont necessarily give her that directly (dont tell her you want to reassure her or fight with her feelings). try just responding with something light, upbeat, fun, etc. let it bounce off of you. if she escalates, starts getting nasty, that might be the point to exit the conversation rather than fight her on it.

shes needy, and shes not going to necessarily play fair. the idea is not to get caught up in it. just like its innocent if you dont message her, its innocent if she doesnt get back to you for a while.

trying to get across "see, this is how you treat me, and this is how i will treat you if you treat me that way", is blurry boundaries. that drives the cycle rather than breaking it.

I see where you’re comjng from with the cycle. It feeds it because we keep going back and forth rather than actually breaking it by not feeding it to it... not going to lie, these threads have helped so much. I know I have my moments like many others still do, but it’s helped me learn and adjust quicker than before. Thank you...
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« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2018, 05:56:35 PM »

I know I have my moments like many others still do

its a lifestyle, and that requires a whole lot of adjusting and practice. nobody handles conflict perfectly, but once we are able to see our role in it, its virtually impossible to go backward, its just a matter of learning as we go.

the first time i heard "a circular argument requires two people" (which seems so obvious) it blew my mind!
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« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2018, 10:31:03 AM »

Update:

My ex came over on Saturday evening and gave me my gift she brought from Vegas.  It was the perfect gift and I reacted in a very loving and appreciative way.  After that, (and I know I blurred boundaries, which I regret) we began to cuddle.  Then she asked me to be honest with her about something that an acquaintance brought to her attention. She asked if I thought she was a brat.  Our conversation went something like this:
Her: do you think I'm a brat?
Me: all honesty, you have your moments but I think using our relationship isn't a good idea.
Her: but how am I a brat? My friend said that she thinks I'm a brat because of all the stuff that people supposedly buy me (Nike clothes, etc.) but I buy that stuff myself, you know that.
Me: I can see how she may think you're a brat.  For example, if you don't get your way, you throw a fit and sometimes a big one for something so small.  That's being a brat.  You do ask or expect people to buy you things, that you, yourself are capable of buying.  For example, D (the friend she lives with) buys you things to make you  happy. You ask her to buy you a pair of shoes or do favors for you and when she says no or starts complaining, you get upset and throw a fit.  If I don't ask you to take you to eat cause you say "I'm hungry" you throw a fit.  You expect things from specific people and when you don't get it, you get upset, that's being a brat.  So I can see where your friend is coming from if she doesn't know you like I  or anyone who is very close to you do.
Her: You make it seem like you're not brat too.  You throw fits if you don't get your way too. (I assume she turned it on me because I "exposed" her truths)
Me: Yes, I can be bratty at times but I won't throw a fit because I don't get my way. I just get up and do it or buy whatever it is I want.
Her: Well, don't make it seem like you don't get upset.  Whatever, come hug me.

We cuddled for a bit more and she was on her phone.  She received a message from a number she did not recognize and she asked herself "who is this" and looked at the picture.  So of course, I was curious and asked also, "oh who is that"
Her: Oh, I had him for a class. 
*messages someone else under the name "Grinch" (she used to call me Grinch)
Me: Who's that?
Her: Some guy
Me: Oh, what guy?
Her: Some guy I met last Saturday when I went out. Stop being so nosy
Me: I'm not being nosy like you think, I was just curious who it was cause you have them under "Grinch" and you used to call me "Grinch"
Her: yes, you're right I used to call you "Grinch".  It annoys me you're so nosy. I don't do that to you.  I don't look at your phone or ask you who you're talking to.
Me: No you don't ask because i give you that information willingly.  You never needed to ask who i was with or who I was talking to cause I would tell you without you needing to ask.
Her: Well I don't understand why you have to be so nosy and ask me all the time or look at my phone.
Me:  I don't find it fair that even though we are not together you still want to know exactly what I am doing and who I am with.  Yet, when I ask you, you get upset and say I'm being nosy and throw the "we are not together" phrase in my face.  I find it unfair that when I told you last week I was leaving a "friends" house you got upset and made a comment saying "oh that's what they're called these days, I'll let you be, have a good night".

Went back and forth a little more until finally I said I didn't want to discuss this anymore.  And we both laid on the bed separately.  5 minutes later she asked me to hug her and I said "No, I'm sorry, I'm not in the mood at the moment"  We both continued to be on our phones and 15 minutes later she decided to go home.  I walked her out and we didn't say a word.  When she got home she sent me a "night. hope you enjoy your cup (the gift she got me" I replied with "thank you for my gift it was very thoughtful of you.  be careful going out tonight. good night"  Her response was "K"

Next day, I did not send a "good morning" text and received a message around 2:30pm:
Her: "no good morning"
Me: "hey! good afternoon. how's your day going?"

At that point she video called me and I didn't answer (I was trying to decide to answer or not) The call was missed so I called her right back and I could barely see or hear her so I asked her if she could call me through a regular phone call. She hung up.  I sent her a text asking her to call me and she just left me on read. 

About an hour and half later I sent her a message saying "thinking about grabbing food and a movie if you'd like to join" Her response "maybe when i get back from Mexico (we live on the border with mexico)"  I said "Ok be safe" and that was it. I received a message about an hour later saying "ok i will". After that, I never heard from her for the rest of the day. 

Today is officially our 3 year anniversary of when we first began talking.  I still have messages from back when we first started talking.  I wanted to send them with a meaningful message so that it was the first thing she saw when she woke up but I'm not sure what state of mind she is in.  So I just sent "good morning" She replied back with "good morning" but I have yet to respond.

I want to tell her meaningful words as part of celebrating the anniversary but I'm hesistant. It's just something that I've been wanting to tell her (but I'm sure she already knows) because it's how I feel.  I'm skeptical.  Not sure where her head is at.  She's been acting out of the norm recently and usually when that happens, it's because there is someone new in the picture, however, she continues to state that she doesn't want a relationship with anyone. Maybe I'm just being paranoid.  Any advice on whether or not I should send her anything in regards to the anniversary or just act like it's a normal day? (to be honest, i highly doubt she even remembers it)
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« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2018, 11:23:54 AM »

Update from this morning's "good morning" text;

Her reply: good morning
Me: hows it going
Her: sends me a video of her zooming in to her eye
Me: ?
Her: that's how I'm feeling
Me: oh, ok, what are you up to
Her: eating hun
Me: nice, enjoy
Her: i will, and you?
Me: work
Her: so we need to watch HTGAWM, (a show we watched together)
Me: why
Her: new episodes came out
Me: oh ok
Her: eye roll emoji, and then "ay, whatever" and sent a waving hand
Me: Okay, (waving hand emoji)
Her: laughing face emoji

Of course, this annoyed and upset me cause she completely discarded and ignored me then came back and wants to laugh it off.  First thing i want to do is send this:
"Don't know what I did now to annoy you but I'm over it. I'm not D, so please don't treat me that way... .if you can't refrain from doing so, then have a good one, continue to ignore me and do your thing, you have every right, I'm no one nor your partner to tell you anything.  Just understand it sucks feeling and getting treated this way when I'm trying to make things right and understand you.  and getting ignored by the person you care for for something you either didn't do or didn't intend to sucks.  Have a good one, hope you had a good time in Mexico."

I know I may be jumping the gun by possibly sending that but it sucks when you're being sincere about something and it gets turned into a joke and I have to adjust and make it seem like nothing is happening and my feelings don't matter.
I haven't sent it yet, now I'm the one ignoring her cause i don't want to send something out of insecurity or anger but at the same time, this sucks. She's acting completely out of the norm.
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« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2018, 01:29:17 PM »

She asked if I thought she was a brat. 

this question is a bit like a pregnant wife asking her husband if he thinks she looks fat. it has never gone well when the husband says "well, youve put on some weight from the pregnancy".

just listen.

"what did your friend say? why do you think your friend said that? what do you think about what your friend said?"

the power of asking validating questions: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=273415.0

the second conversation (about the grinch) is just more of the same circular arguments... .youre both pouting and pointing fingers at each other. if your point is that youre not in a relationship so its unreasonable for her to be nosy, dont do it yourself, and dont volunteer information either.

the good morning/good afternoon stuff went better. she was in a huff, and you didnt take any of the bait or escalate the matter.

im not sure about sending the conversations from three years ago. is it a romantic gesture, a friendship gesture, both? what response are you looking for?

Her reply: good morning
Me: hows it going
Her: sends me a video of her zooming in to her eye
Me: ?
Her: that's how I'm feeling
Me: oh, ok, what are you up to
Her: eating hun
Me: nice, enjoy
Her: i will, and you?
Me: work
Her: so we need to watch HTGAWM, (a show we watched together)
Me: why
Her: new episodes came out
Me: oh ok
Her: eye roll emoji, and then "ay, whatever" and sent a waving hand
Me: Okay, (waving hand emoji)
Her: laughing face emoji

Of course, this annoyed and upset me cause she completely discarded and ignored me then came back and wants to laugh it off.  First thing i want to do is send this:
... .
I know I may be jumping the gun by possibly sending that but it sucks when you're being sincere about something

my read on it is that she reached out, you were short with her, she was excited about watching a show with you, and you shut her down. she effectively called you a grouch/stick in the mud in response. do you have a different take?
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« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2018, 02:42:16 PM »


"what did your friend say? why do you think your friend said that? what do you think about what your friend said?"

I actually did ask those questions and she did answer them but then kept asking what my thoughts were since "i know her best." Guess I took the bait on that one. I wonder if i told her "I don't feel comfortable answering that question" would be a better way of avoiding it. I honestly don't feel comfortable because then she finds a way to turn it on me and there we go, circular argument.



im not sure about sending the conversations from three years ago. is it a romantic gesture, a friendship gesture, both? what response are you looking for?

It would be a romantic gesture from my part.  I am still in love with her. Response i'm looking for is acknowledgement, and some romance.  

my read on it is that she reached out, you were short with her, she was excited about watching a show with you, and you shut her down. she effectively called you a grouch/stick in the mud in response. do you have a different take?

I can totally see what you're saying through her eyes.  I just feel like she avoids certain questions/conversations or sends me videos or calls me out of guilt on her part.  She's done it in the past and I somehow find out she's doing something she know will hurt me.  For example, going to Vegas. Regardless if we are together or not, she usually tells me these things and no, I am not entitled to her telling me where she goes or what she does (although she expects it from me). She knows my work schedule, yet video calls me in the middle of my class. Maybe she was searching for comfort cause her trip wasn't going as planned or maybe she was feeling guilty that she didn't tell me about the trip, I don't know.  Another example, Sunday when she sent the "no good morning" text at 2:30pm.  I know for a fact she doesn't wake up at that time, yet she questions why I didn't send a text. Maybe because it was out of my norm for her, or she was seeking comfort from something, or she was guilty of something. I know this all seems like a whirlwind, but it's what I'm thinking and feeling.  

I think I was already upset from the entire weekend's conversations and then the fact that she's been acting completely out of the norm, like shady on her part. And then wants everything to be normal, and expects me to treat her like she was my partner.  At least with my past experiences, she's just different.  I can tell when someone else is in the picture and I am no longer a priority (idealized), it's heart wrenching.  Again, I could be completely wrong since she keeps saying she doesn't want to be with anyone.  Maybe I'm just being paranoid from past experiences too.  

What can I do about  bringing up the tv show thing? I really do want to watch it with her, it's our thing.  How can I get her excited about it again?

She also wants me to review a quiz for her before turning it in. I feel used if I agree to it, although I know she is letting everything go and moving on.  I haven't moved on yet.  I know it's the right thing to do, and maybe I should just agree to reviewing her quiz for her and just move on. this goes back to a previous post that I feel used and as if I'm a convenience to when she needs help with her school work.  Thoughts?
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« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2018, 03:05:31 PM »

I wonder if i told her "I don't feel comfortable answering that question" would be a better way of avoiding it. I honestly don't feel comfortable because then she finds a way to turn it on me and there we go, circular argument.

thats one option. i do think you run the risk of her taking it as "yes you are a brat, and im not going to say it, because youll be a brat", and youd have to be prepared for that. there might be other ways. one might be to be playful and flirty... .something like (only an example) "hell yeah youre a brat, and i love you for it. come here, ya brat". thats risky if its something that touches a nerve with her, or if she feels youre trying to avoid answering. there are other ways.

It would be a romantic gesture from my part.  I am still in love with her. Response i'm looking for is acknowledgement, and some romance.  

given what youve told us about her, and given how things have been for a while, i think if thats the response youre looking for, you may be disappointed. im not saying she wont appreciate it, she probably would, but i would not count on her to gush or validate it.

additionally, the lines between friendship and romance between the two of you are still kind of blurry... .the cuddling is good, things are kinda flirty, so there is romance, but you both fight a lot, and then remind the other that you aren't "together". sometimes its romantic, sometimes its friends only, so with things how they are, youre likely to get very mixed results. what im saying here is that before you can build much on the romantic aspects, there might be other priorities in terms of just regularly enjoying each others company and not fighting so much.

She knows my work schedule, yet video calls me in the middle of my class.

its a pain in the butt, and feels/is kinda disrespectful. the silver lining i suppose, is that shes eager to talk to you. my ex would blow me up at work too, and it really grated on my nerves. id try to explain that, and shed take it super badly. the simplest thing is just to have your phone turned off, or whatever, during those hours... .she may make a fuss, like she did over the good morning text, but you kinda just have to not pick up the hot potato, and let her figure out youre simply not available during those times.

Another example, Sunday when she sent the "no good morning" text at 2:30pm.  I know for a fact she doesn't wake up at that time, yet she questions why I didn't send a text.

heres the thing. shes used to it, so if it doesnt happen, she thinks of all the reasons why it didnt happen, and probably decides on the wrong ones, and she reacts to that. on the other hand, shes used to it, they are not meaningful exchanges, just obligatory ones, so thats why its better to change it up, over time.

What can I do about  bringing up the tv show thing? I really do want to watch it with her, it's our thing.  How can I get her excited about it again?

not easily. but if you want to try, you need to be sincere. if it were me, i might ask questions... .something related to the last season we watched together, or the new one ("i was reading about blah blah blah, holy cow i cant believe they went in that direction!). something just to get her talking about it that also expresses interest. find a good time to bring it up, dont just text it to her now. id show interest in watching it with her, not just say im interested in watching it with her.

or you can let it go entirely, and just watch it with her when you watch it with her.

and even after all of that, she might resort to pouting because you werent enthusiastic before, and youll have to let it go.

does that make sense?
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« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2018, 03:39:28 PM »

Makes complete sense.

It is just draining at times, especially when I have my own stressors to deal with. I want to vent to her but afraid of how she will react when I "complain".  That's her favorite phrase: "you complain too  much; suck it up and get it done." I wish she was empathetic as I am to her, or at least half way.

I will keep trying and learning. My only other option is to detach completely and let go. But for some reason, I'm not ready to do that.  I'm trying to do the "lead by example approach as well". I will also refrain from circular arguments (ex: pointing fingers, offering information, and asking questions).  It's difficult but I'm will to try.
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« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2018, 10:30:37 PM »

its been a few days. whats going on?
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« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2018, 10:59:07 PM »

its been a few days. whats going on?

Well, not too well. We are not speaking. We fought two days in a row. And our last fight was over the fact that I found out she was on a dating app. I asked her straight forward about it and she raged. Said that I’m always looking st her phone, she doesn’t do that to me, and the famous line “you’ve lost me for good all cause of yourbsgupjd jealousy.”

Mind you, I invited her over for dinner after we had a fight the night before (Monday) because I asked why her seat was pushed so far back (she commented out of no where “now you’re gojnf to judge the seat of my car”). That turned into a fight because i questioned the seat, then it turned into something about her ex bf. She had invited me to join her at the gym and the first thing I see when I walk in is her and her ex boyfriend talking and laughing. So I separated myself to calm myself down and get through the workout and it worked. I was fine after that and we were supposed to go to dinner and that’s when I asked about the car seat. Back to me inviting her over for dinner... .then we cuddled for a bit and she fell asleep. Her phone kept going off and receiving notifications and of course like any natural human being, I was curious and just looked over at it and I saw a notification for a dating app. I didn’t ask about it until she left. And then she blew up, leaving me 70 text messages just raging and a missed phone call. This happened Tuesday night and we have yet to talk, but she has not blocked me.

That’s what’s happened in a nutshell.
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« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2018, 05:18:23 PM »

HI.  I am sorry to hear that you guys are having trouble. 

  Sometimes when we are having strong feelings they can come through to the other person, sometimes to be misinterpreted or, sometimes to be pegged just right.   

What were your thoughts and feelings when you asked her about the seat position and the dating app?
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« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2018, 07:33:49 PM »


What were your thoughts and feelings when you asked her about the seat position and the dating app?

In an earlier reply/entry I had mentioned that I felt there was someone else. The dating app and her seat being back just felt like a confirmation to me. However, she did tell me she met a guy on the app and said that they are just friends. When I asked her about the app I said “it’s none of my business and it’s your life and you can live it however you’d like ... are you on a dating app”. She said that she just got on it to make fun of her best friend thag is on another type of dating app. At first I was sad, hurt, and angry (still am). But after thinking about it and talking it over with my counselor, I feel she’s just seeking attention from anywhere right now since she is depressed and lost. I feel she is mimicking her best friend too (I’ve read that since those with BPD traits have no sense of self, they tend to copy or follow in someone else’s footsteps) with the dating app.

We have yet to have contact, which tells me 1. There is someone else, 2. She needs her space (which I’m giving her) and 3. She’s angry.

I hope #1 is not true but at the same time, I have absolutely no control over that situation. But whatever remakes her happy. Right now, I’m just focusing on myself, my certifications, and keeping myself distracted.
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« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2018, 09:58:22 PM »

“it’s none of my business and it’s your life and you can live it however you’d like ... are you on a dating app”.



monday morning quarterbacking wont help you too much right now, i know, but if the two of you arent together (or even if you were), checking her phone, policing who she is or isnt with, comments about her seat... .its pushy, insecure stuff. ive been there, acted on it, and pushed a lot of romantic prospects away with it myself.

youre in kind of an anxious position because you want to be together, but right now, the two of you are friends that fight a lot, and cuddle some.

if you want to reconcile the relationship, its going to require first breaking the cycle of conflict (ive said it before, but the two of you fight a lot and i think each of you drive it about as much as the other), and approaching this from a place of strength and security, understanding that right now, even that may not bring the two of you together. shes a single gal exploring her options. one response to that is to be the most attractive option, but its not a guarantee.

the question before you is, are you really and truly up for that? theres some risk here.

have you heard from her since?
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« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2018, 10:17:56 PM »

Why the need to stay in contact with an ex?   
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« Reply #30 on: November 19, 2018, 10:21:52 PM »

this is the Bettering or Reversing a Breakup board 

lots of members on this board are trying to reconcile a relationship.
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« Reply #31 on: November 19, 2018, 10:30:48 PM »



monday morning quarterbacking wont help you too much right now, i know, but if the two of you arent together (or even if you were), checking her phone, policing who she is or isnt with, comments about her seat... .its pushy, insecure stuff. ive been there, acted on it, and pushed a lot of romantic prospects away with it myself.

youre in kind of an anxious position because you want to be together, but right now, the two of you are friends that fight a lot, and cuddle some.

if you want to reconcile the relationship, its going to require first breaking the cycle of conflict (ive said it before, but the two of you fight a lot and i think each of you drive it about as much as the other), and approaching this from a place of strength and security, understanding that right now, even that may not bring the two of you together. shes a single gal exploring her options. one response to that is to be the most attractive option, but its not a guarantee.

the question before you is, are you really and truly up for that? theres some risk here.

have you heard from her since?

I get what you’re saying... I think the insecurity questioning does come from an anxious position. I want a clear answer on what she wants with me. She wants the best of both worlds and I’m not willing to give her that. God forbid I do the same thing she is doing (living my single life). I’ve noticed that when I do, she gets jealous and throws it in my face or makes comments. I know the best solution is to not react to the comments. Like you’re timned before (if she gets mad let her and don’t react to it) but it’s difficult sometimes. Especially when we are cuddling and I’m trying to give her my attention and she’s on her phone. It’s annoying. So yes, I get how I can come off looking insecure to her.

I am for doing what I can to get her back and look like the most attractive option for her, but with my dignity.

We go to the same church. I hadn’t been there in a couple of weeks but a friend of mine was dedicating  his new son and invited me to celebrate (so happens to be at the same church she goes to). I went, sat with my friend and his family and saw her. We did see each other but played that whole “I’m looking at you but as soon as you try to make eye contact with me I’m turning away” game. Silly, I know. After that, she did message me about an hour later asking to speak to me for a few minutes and that she wouldn’t bother me after that. I didn’t answer cause I was having lunch with a friend. But then She FaceTimed me and I answered in the car. She asked if I could recommend someone to help her with a hw assignment that I had been helloing her with (it’s familiar with my line of work) and she dropped a comment. Her: since you use the excuse that I just use you, is there someone else you can recommend that can help me with this assignment? Me: yes, there is. And I gave her the number of one of my mentors (who she happens to know as well). After that she blocked me (mind you, I hadn’t been blocked since we fought last week until yesterday) no idea what that means. Why block me if you haven’t all week long? That’s about it.

I know holidays are the most difficult and if she were reach out again, I’d be there. Especially since her family dynamic is a bit messed up. I miss her and want her back but not at the cost of my self worth and dignity. I understand her disorder is not necessity her but like you said, I need to break some cycle. And I want to.
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« Reply #32 on: November 19, 2018, 10:49:27 PM »

she blocked you because shes immature and she fights like an immature person.

and frankly, you did a good job of not taking the bait or trying to argue with her about it. more than likely, she will get over it pretty soon.

the question is, assuming she does, will the relationship get over this hump, and become something more, will it shift to a friendship with "friends only" boundaries, will the two of you go your separate ways, or will it stay in this holding pattern and/or get worse until something gives.

if its the former, what i said still applies. dignity, to me, means confidence. it means youre not threatened by whether or not shes talking to or seeing other people. it means you have a vision of where you would like to see the relationship go, and the initiative to lead it in that direction. it also means accepting that may or may not happen, and that there is a certain risk youre prepared to live with.

if its a friendship, things are probably going to look a lot differently, it will probably mean distancing yourself in certain ways and on certain levels, shifting to "friends only" boundaries. she may react to that with clinging a bit, and youll have to be steadfast and firm in the face of that pull... .even when/if she begins to distance herself as well.

whatever path you choose, and none of them are easy, its going to take commitment, and steadfastness.

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« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2018, 11:19:00 PM »

Thank you Once Removed!

You’ve reassured me that I’m making the right decision In not giving in to her little bait. It’s difficult, I won’t deny it, but at the same time I believe it shows confidence like you said. I have noticed a pattern or tests from her and I feel like it breaks her cycle (which she doesnt like) but this time I see it in hopefully a positive way. However, i do know there will be setbacks as well. I’m happy to have found this family because it reassures me and helps me with my situation and shows me that I am not alone. You’re advice and my counseling have helped me become self aware, confident, and mindful.

I’m continuing with my counseling and loving every minute of it. My friend is a counselor as well and she has also been my voice of reason when my main counselor is unavailable to me in the exact moment. Breaking the cycle is tough when you’ve done it for so long but I feel stronger, more confident, and gaining the ability to stop myself from taking her bait, engaging in JADEing, etc. I hope that one day all this will end up in my favor, even though it’s risky. We shall see how the rest of the week goes with Thanksgiving coming up.
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« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2018, 11:22:17 PM »

keep us posted.

a whole lot has gone down in just a few days. keep your support group in the loop 
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« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2018, 11:35:59 PM »

Staff only

This thread has reached its posting limit and is now locked. Please feel free to continue the conversation in a new thread. Thank you for your participation.

Warmly,
Spero
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