Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
December 18, 2018, 01:49:27 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Harri, Once Removed, Radcliffwendydarling
Senior Ambassadors: Flourdust, Mutt, Turkish, Woolspinner2000
Ambassadors: Bnonymous, Cat Familiar, CryWolf, Enabler, Feeling Better, formflier, Insom, Merlot, Mustbeabetterway, Only Human, RolandOfEld, spero, WTL, Yellowpearl, zachira
  Help!   Groups   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Register to post Here  
Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
222
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: uBPDmom hates the therapist, round 2  (Read 336 times)
worriedStepmom
***
Online Online

Person in your life: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 175


« on: November 27, 2018, 04:55:59 PM »

Small vent...

It was semi-quiet for the last few weeks, and then BAM.  I don't know if this latest dysregulation was triggered by the holidays, the fact that uBPDmom hasn't seen SD11 in 2.5 weeks (the longest they have ever been apart), the fact that uBPDmom spent 2.5 weeks with new fiance (the longest they have ever been together in person) or the fact that uBPDmom can't read a calendar and was quite upset to realize - after she drove 1200 miles to come back home from new fiance's state - that she did not have custody this week. 

For the last 4 days she has sent H long rants with screenshots of the custody decree stating she has "the right to confer" about SD's medical needs, and she doesn't like the T.  He finally responded with a screenshot of the order stating he has exclusive mental health decision-making.  She's decided that means nothing, it's trumped by her right to confer and she doesn't like the T so he has to go, and if H doesn't fire him uBPDmom will sue him for contempt of the order.  Sigh. 

uBPDmom has requested copies of all of the T's clinical notes.  T told me that it was not in SD's best interests to send all of his notes to uBPDmom.  He is concerned about the backlash and willing to gamble that uBPDmom won't file a legal complaint against him if he doesn't comply. 

In a moment of semi-lucidity yesterday, uBPDmom offered to have us send T's notes to uBPDmom's new therapist instead of directly to her.

Our proposed compromise is that T and SD will discuss what information SD is comfortable sharing with mom's therapist and T will only share that.  H and I will also send a letter to mom's therapist with examples of problematic interactions between uBPDmom and SD that we have seen over the last few months.  It's as neutral as I can possibly make it, with lots of direct quotes from uBPDmom's texts.  The letter also asks mom's T to use her discretion and, where possible, when talking to uBPDmom attribute specific examples given by SD's T to H instead of to SD.  We told her that we are quite concerned that the day after uBPDmom's next appointment, she has custody of SD for 5 days in a row.

After H asked for uBPDmom's new T's address, uBPDmom called SD's T and told him he was fired.  T knows better.

Does this sound like a decent compromise to y'all?

Logged
david
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Person in your life: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 4295


« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2018, 08:51:16 PM »

I am only speaking for my situation. If I had a court order saying I had exclusive mental-health decision making I would state that in an email and that would be the extent of communication about it. I am pretty sure my ex would send additional emails threatening me/ trying to scare me/etc. Ex would have to take me to court and I would show the order and all the nonsense from my ex and it would be, I believe, a done deal. I like the fact that she called the T and fired her. Made me chuckle.
One time our oldest became ill in school. I received a call from the nurse telling me his symptoms and that I needed to pick him up. I explained that it was moms custodial time. The nurse said she called several times and left a voicemail and mom did not contact her. I told her I would pick him up soon. Our son had a virus from the symptoms he was showing. He went to bed as soon as we got home. I sent an email telling ex our sons condition, ex is a nurse so it makes this even better, and what my plans were for the next day depending on how he was feeling. I also told her I would contact her if anything changed. I received an email demanding I return her son since it was her custodial time and I was in violation of the court order. I simply replied with the same information I had sent before. A few hours later I received a call from the police. I explained the situation and he agreed with my decision. He asked me to reach out to ex again so I sent another email explaining the call and repeating what I said before.
Later that evening I received another email from ex. It was sent to her attorney and cc'd to me. It told her attorney that I was in violation of the court order and she wanted to go back to court since I was in contempt. I ignored that email. Never heard anything about it again. I guess she needed to blow smoke up her a**.
I stopped trying to figure out where the anger was coming from since I was not the cause and we are no longer married.
Logged

ForeverDad
Retired Staff
*
Online Online

Gender: Male
Person in your life: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 15847


You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2018, 09:01:29 PM »

I too suspect H is being "too overly fair" in being willing to share his daughter's T's notes with anyone, even if it is mom's T.  Does anyone (other than mom) trust mom's T to handle such information judiciously?  I know H is walking a narrow path but I worry it won't make things better.  Of course, there's always a chance it can positively surprise us all.

Could H get away with stating that he doesn't see T's notes either?  (Yes, they communicate but seeing the notes versus sharing them may make a difference?)

Maybe H, D and T can work together figuring out what can be sent, but they should lean toward sending less versus more.
Logged

david
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Person in your life: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 4295


« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2018, 05:36:26 AM »

She has a right to confer in the court order. She did just that by expressing her opinion. That is what she is allowed to do. Reminding her that H has the decision making power for all mental health decisions may have triggered her. It may also be the only thing she will understand and she will get triggered no matter what you do. Perhaps, simply saying I will think about what you are saying and leaving it at that would be less triggering.
I can't always avoid triggering ex but when I find a way I take that path. I don't even try to co parent anymore. I could never figure a way to do that so I went with parallel parenting. It was better for our boys and me.
I think ForeverDad makes a good point about not sharing anything from the T. If H isn't getting that info why does bpdx need to. Let her figure out what to do. It might be that bpdx continues to engage with the two of you because that is the only place that is engaging with her. Minimize the engagement and eventually she will figure it out and find another source.
We separated in 2007 and ex filed for divorce. We did not get divorced until 2012 because of ex delaying things. I only communicate through email. At first, I would get dozens of emails a month pointing out all my problems. I learned to ignore them. Eventually her attacks became less. The last few years I would get about one every month or two. Just this Thanksgiving, the boys were with me on Thanksgiving,  ex had a Thanksgiving dinner this last Saturday. When she dropped them off afterwards she had given them a container of leftovers for me ? That is a brand new behavior on her part. I don't expect things like that to occur on a regular basis but it is a positive step.
Logged

kells76
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Person in your life: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 322


« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2018, 09:33:24 AM »

Hi worriedStepmom  Welcome new member (click to insert in post)

Your SD is one tough cookie for being able to talk to you guys about what's going on with Mom, and for working on standing up for herself. It says a lot about you and your H, too, that SD will be open with you.

I think sometimes we perceive the kids as able to handle more than they really should be handling at their age. I want to share with you my thoughts about your situation, and you can think about if they ring true.

Excerpt
Our proposed compromise is that T and SD will discuss what information SD is comfortable sharing with mom's therapist

I wonder if this is bringing SD into an adult role that is actually too much for her. I could see it as "SD, you need to help the grownups figure out a complicated grownup situation regarding adult mental health". I don't think you and H intend it that way.

I would consider leaving SD out of making any decision on who (if anyone) sees the T's notes. And I think ForeverDad and david have offered some great advice on sticking to solid boundaries. Maybe Mom needs to manage her own feelings (instead of having her T, SD's T, you, DH, and SD do it) on the other side of the Great Wall of Boundaries?

These are tough situations, and I hear you and your H doing the best you can for SD's well-being. What a tightrope, huh?

Let me know if you want more feedback or clarification, or just a hug   

kells76
Logged
worriedStepmom
***
Online Online

Person in your life: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 175


« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2018, 01:44:18 PM »

Thank you all for the great advice and commiseration. kells, I am very concerned about finding the right balance between including SD in decisions that involve her (e.g., what information is shared about her sessions) and protecting her from situations/decisions, and I am afraid we are erring too far on the "give SD a voice" side right now.

uBPDmom showed up at SD's therapy appointment a little while ago!  I had just finished telling T that H had decided uBPDmom was never allowed to have a joint session with SD and T.   T and I decided SD would have her session and leave the room, then uBPDmom could have a few min alone with T, and then I would have a few min alone with T.   uBPDmom refused to sit in the waiting room with me.

SD came out after 30 min and crawled in my lap and cried.  This kid who needed comfort was literally standing between me and her mom, and she turned to me. I felt so sad for her.  All I could do was hug her and whisper that I was so proud of her, because this was all so very, very hard and she was doing the best she could to get through it.

After 20 min, uBPDmom came out and slammed the door. She didn't look for SD to say goodbye.

T told me that SD identified 3 things that she wants mom to change in order to improve their relationship.   This is all he will send to mom's T, and he shared them directly with mom.  She wants her parents to be friends, and cited as an example that my ex and I sit together at school events and are cordial.  SD also wants her mom to stop saying bad things about H and me. 

Per T, uBPDmom brushed off what he said and started complaining about the custody schedule. T cut her off and told her she can't refuse to show up in court and then gripe later.  She is now blowing up H's phone with all the reasons it is his fault they can't be friends.

We're done now.  She had her courtesy time, and that's it.  H will make it clear to uBPDmom that she is no longer allowed to go to the T's office.  I guess he needs to put it in writing to the T as well.
Logged
david
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Person in your life: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 4295


« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2018, 03:55:07 PM »

My ex ran away in 2007. A few weeks later she emptied our house when I wasn't there (the short version). I literally mean emptied. The house had 47 electrical outlet covers and she took them all ? I know the number because I had to buy new ones to put back on. However, in our attic above the garage was an empty cardboard box and on top of the empty box was a plastic bag. Inside the bag was a journal, which I knew nothing about,  that belonged to ex. It was from about two years before we met until about 8 months after we met. It was dated for each entry. It had all the criteria for bpd except suicidal ideation. I interpreted that as her way of telling me something about her.
One thing she wrote, "ANGER, I HAVE LOTS OF IT ( it was capitalized) and I direct it towards my children and others close to me especially when I don't get MY WAY !"  It took me a while to figure out bpd since I knew nothing about it.
It sounds like the T set a boundary (telling her the truth) and she did not like that. Her anger was so intense that was all she had in her, anger. She lashes out at you and H because she knows it is safe and you usually engage (try to explain or reason). I learned the only way to change the interaction between ex and myself was for me to change. I stopped engaging as much as possible and volunteered no information except what I thought was absolutely unequivocally mandatory that a court would require me to. It was tricky at first but I learned to be as close to NC as possible. I rarely send an email to ex (once every three or four months) and reply to even less. Our court order spells everything out except some holidays. Extended school holidays need to be divided evenly and if there is an odd number of days the extra day is rotated year to year. That requires an email. 
Logged

worriedStepmom
***
Online Online

Person in your life: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 175


« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2018, 07:04:04 PM »

I need to talk to H and see if he is willing to set stronger boundaries around the crazy.

Last year I told uBPDmom I would file harassment charges if she continued to call or text me, unless SD is actually inside an emergency vehicle.  She leaves me alone now.

I'm hoping that now that we have SD most of the time, H might be willing to block uBPDmom for 24 hours whenever she sends any commentary.    He only responds to about 1 of every 30 or 40 texts (to answer direct child-related questions or provide information about school activities), and he has always tried to use BIFF, but there is SOO much crazy that I worry it can still put us in the FOG.

Logged
david
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Person in your life: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 4295


« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2018, 09:11:55 PM »

Years ago we were in court ordered co parent counseling. Our oldest needed a school bag since his was falling apart. When I noticed it I told him we would go out the next time we were together and buy a new one. He said his mom said she was going to buy it so I let it go. A week later he still had the same school bag. I decided to email ex and ask if she was buying one or not. She went on a tirade about some school bag our son picked out online and that she refused to buy that particular one. It was called an assault rucksack. It looked like a normal backpack type bag. It was black and not camouflage. Every review said it was a great backpack. It was durable and expandable so you could easily put a laptop in it. It didn't show any signs of anything questionable. It was also much less than the backpacks in the stores around us. I sent another email asking if she was going to buy a school bag for him or not. I did not get into any of the reasons for or against. She repeated that she would not buy that particular school bag. A day or two later we had an appointment with the co parent counselor and the school bag was the first item ex brought up. She went off in the office. The T finally settled her down and asked me what I thought. I pointed out that our son found one online that had great reviews and seemed fine to me and that I asked ex if she was going to but a school bag for him or not. I didn't care if she said yes or no. If she said yes I simply wanted to know when because he really needed a school bag. If she said no I would take him out to get one the next time I saw him. Ex turned around and said she was not going to buy the one he picked out but I could if I wanted. I looked her straight in her eyes and said I would not do that because that would be undermining her parental authority since she already said no to that particular one and I didn't think this was an issue that needed to be fought over. I simply wanted to know if she was going to buy a school bag or not. She went off again and the T calmed her down quickly. The T then looked at me and asked me if I thought these meetings would help at some point in time. I said no but we were court ordered for ten months and we had only gone to three meetings. The T said he could write a letter to the judge and I would not be required to come anymore. I stood up, shook his hand, and thanked him. I walked out, got in my car, and drove away. I don't know if ex still had to go to the meetings or not.
In the beginning ex could contain herself in front of others but eventually, with me having less and less contact, she would go off in front of others. Emotionally distancing myself, I learned, drove her crazy. I think she was trying to get her way and that was her "normal" way of achieving that when she perceived things weren't going her way. It is a classic bullying tactic. I look back at when we were together and I could recall her acting that way but not towards me except in two instances over the course of our marriage. Our marriage lasted around ten years so I always considered those incidents as minor things. I figured she was just upset and was venting so I never took either incident personally.
Logged

scraps66
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1427



« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2018, 05:51:21 AM »

Hug.

I see this as too many conditions.  The one that matter is dad having the mental health decision making authority.  To eliminate any interpretation, I would have rather had this say, "dad has all decision making authority involving D11."  Then there is little room for misinterpretation from momster.

I would simply build the boundary, "I have all mental health decision making authority," or simply ignore her.  I have had text messaging tirades that lasted 17 iterations before the initial inquiry was addressed or acknowledged by my exuBPDNPDw.  So limiting discussion is what needs to be done with a BP.

Same goes for SD11 and the therapist discussing what gets revealed to mother.  I wouldn't do that, let the "adults" or adult, deal with that.  Revealing this information sort of gives mom a list to work from.  Any of my therapy sessions involving mother were nothing more than grandstanding, projection opportunities used simply to gather information that got fed back to S14.

It is telling, our S14s behavior spiked badly during the second round of coparent counseling we were sentenced to. 
Logged
worriedStepmom
***
Online Online

Person in your life: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 175


« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2018, 09:39:19 AM »

I told H that the constant barrage from uBPDex on his phone and the worry over what she will do next is making me anxious, and I'm worried that we aren't protecting SD as much as we should because we're tired of dealing with her mom.  He was surprised to hear this, but he listened and I think he agrees with me.

He told me he is tired of the abuse too, but he's been hesitant to set boundaries because he wanted to gather potential evidence.  I pointed out that he now has primary custody, and from everything I've read here, when we go back to court we won't be able to put into evidence proof of how she treats us; the court just cares about how she treats SD.  We can still get evidence of that from SD's phone, the therapist, and from what we observe.  (It took 2 days after uBPDmom crashed the therapy session for SD to get back to normal.)

We wrote up a "Communication code" with a list of unacceptable behaviors.  It includes both specific types of unacceptable messages (e.g., "No profanity"; "No accusations of any kind") as well as unacceptable content ("There will be no more discussion about the therapist."; "The custody agreement stands.  Stop asking me for permission to pick up SD on your time.").  Underneath each item was the consequence for violating it (e.g., blocking her for 24 hours).  It also explicitly states that she is not allowed to go to the therapist's office while SD is there.

We are stuck on defining an appropriate consequence for if she shows up at the therapist's office again (I think this is unlikely) and when she shows up at our house.  I voted for calling the police because she is trespassing, but he's concerned about SD's reaction.   Even if SD doesn't see the police arrive, her mom will tell her allllll about it.

Do y'all have any ideas - either on what an appropriate consequence is in this case, or how to handle SD if we do have to call the police?
Logged
david
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Person in your life: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 4295


« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2018, 08:13:36 PM »

You probably have to set a boundary each time she does something and not give a list. It will take some time but setting up a bunch of boundaries and communicating them all at once will cause a massive reaction, I suspect. Each time she does something on the list you can address it then. You can explain it which will probably cause testing or you can simply ignore a text or email that is not appropriate.
My ex used to send rambling emails. If it had one thing in it that pertained to our boys I would address it as short and simple as I could. Three to five sentences. I ignored the rest and eventually her emails became shorter. I rarely get them now. It took around 4 years to get to that point.
I always viewed consequences as if I did that what should I expect towards me.
Once I went to pick up our youngest son at his moms place. Our court order states that whichever person is picking up they are to call the other parents cell phone and hang up when the voicemail kicks on. I did that and our son is supposed to come out in 5 to 10 minutes. I waited 15 and called again. I waited another 15 and called the police. They said to stay in my car and they would send someone out. The police arrived and I explained what was going on. They told me that it was a civil matter and I needed to call my attorney. I had learned much of the game by then so I asked for a wellness check because this kind of thing never happened before. Another patrol car arrived and one of the officers started walking towards exs' place. The moment he set foot on her property the door opened and out came S10. He got in the car and we drove away. He asked why the police were there and I explained I called twice and became concerned so I called the police to make sure him and mom were okay.  A mile down the road he told me that his mom kept looking out of her window and now he knows why. He went on about how her behavior was different and it all made sense after he came outside. He didn't ask me what I thought but I knew he figured it out. Ex never tried that again.
Logged

Gagrl
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Person in your life: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 3363



« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2018, 10:05:20 PM »

My DH and I also learned to address his uNPD/BPD ex's behavior one boundary at a time. When we married, she had assumed he was available to her for unlimited support forever, no matter her behavior (which took the form of repeated and blatant infidelities).  When we reconnected and married (we loved each other as teens but weren't ready for anything permanent), she was amazed and appalled that he would create a life separate and not subservient to her.

So the first few years of our marriage were tough. DH would have been diagnosed with CPTSD had I been able to talk him into therapy.I

Eventually we got there. Mostly, it was conversations around, "If you need to receive a call from her, take it on your cell, away from me. I don't want her invading my evening/house/privacy, etc."  or "That isn't your problem to solve. She has her own life, house, SO, etc. - it isn't about your (adult) children, so extricate yourself."

 It ended up being about my boundaries, my DH learning about boundaries (they work!!), and the Ex butting up against enough brick walls that everyone finally settled into a sort of detente.

And she still flares up every few years (and they were married in 1973).
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 10:11:02 PM by Gagrl » Logged

"...what's past is prologue; what to come,
In yours and my discharge."
worriedStepmom
***
Online Online

Person in your life: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 175


« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2018, 08:56:40 AM »

david, he's consistently ignored 95% of her texts for the last few years, only responding to ones that are relevant to SD and require his input.  The sheer volume of texts and level of abusive language has only increased.

She has been to therapy enough to recognize when other people erect boundaries, and she dysregulates immediately and completely when someone sets one.  I think calling out the behaviors one at a time will probably be worse for her (and SD) than doing a hard reset of communication norms.  Plus, I think it's likely that the next time she texts H the first text will include at least 5 of the things on the list of non-acceptable communication! (She writes paragraphs.)

If we start with a list, she'll find loopholes and we can set those boundaries one at a time.  I will talk to H about it again and see what he thinks.

Gagrl, I'm horrified that your H is still dealing with this occasionally after 45 years.  We are counting the days until SD turns 18 and we can block uBPDmom permanently.
Logged
Gagrl
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Person in your life: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 3363



« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2018, 11:07:32 AM »

Gagrl, I'm horrified that your H is still dealing with this occasionally after 45 years.  We are counting the days until SD turns 18 and we can block uBPDmom permanently.

It would be good if you could manage to block uBPDmom permanently.  Realistically, we find that we continue to support our adult children as they deal with issues with their uNPD/BPD mother.  DH and his ex share the adult children, grandchildren, and all that comes with the problems that a disordered parent brings to those relationships.

However, I would say that DH has no contact, texts, phone calls, etc. except for perhaps a flare-up every 3 years or so.  I have no contact with her whatsoever.
Logged

"...what's past is prologue; what to come,
In yours and my discharge."
david
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Person in your life: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 4295


« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2018, 08:07:10 PM »

My situation started in 2007. I used to get around 60 to 80, I believe, emails a month. It started slowing down around 2010 to about 40 to 60 a month. Around 2012 it went down further. By 2016 things got better and I only receive around two emails a month. I rarely initiate contact, maybe once every other month and it only has to do with scheduling pick up times. Ex now tries communicating through S15 but I don't ever get involved in that. It hasn't happened much so I simply let it go.
I only communicate through email. I do not respond to text messages. I simply delete them without opening them and I let her know that years ago. I haven't spoken to her in years.
I was very concerned about our boys because of this but they have come to realize it is for the best. They have a difficult time interacting with her and she still says some pretty nasty things about me to them. They ask me sometimes about when we all lived together. I tell them whatever they want to know and have never disparaged their mom. I have told funny stories of things that happened years ago and if their mom was part of it I include her in the story. It's kind of like if she had passed away and I was reminiscing.
Logged

Panda39
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Person in your life: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 2903



« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2018, 08:06:26 AM »

Hi worriedmom,

Keep in mind the "Extinction Bursts", when setting boundaries it can get worse before it gets better.  So her 10 emails can jump to 50, then to 100, and then she can show up at your house...all in an attempt to boundary bust.  Testing what it will take to get what she wants (your attention, reaction, engagement).

I often share this little analogy...

We've all seen this at the grocery store...

Mom's value: I want to take good care of my child and that includes eatting good healthy food.
Mom's boundary: Sweets are to be had at special occasions only
Mom's Action: Not buy sweets for her child while grocery shopping

A little kid asks mom for candy, mom says no so the kid pouts.  Little kid asks mom again for some candy, mom says no again so the kid whines.  Little kid asks mom again for some candy, mom says no for the third time, this time kid has a full on melt down screaming tantrum (what we call an Extinction Burst). What happens if mom gives in and gets the candy?  That little kid has just learned that having a screaming tantrum will get them what they want.  What happens if mom doesn't give in? The kid learns that no means no and he gives up.

This does not mean however that the little kid won't ask again the next time mom and he go to the grocery store...the kid will test the boundary again and so will the person with BPD in your life.  The key here is to always be consistent with your boundary.

I think it's great that you and your husband are looking at what your boundaries are as a team so you are on the same page.  I don't think you need to share your boundaries with his ex (make a big announcement and give her a list) I would just start enforcing them as they occur. 

Set up an email folder. The next email you get with a swear word in it, reply that you will no longer be responding to any communication that includes profanity (tell her this only one time) and move the email to the folder.  Next time you get an email with a swear word in it, stop reading, move it to the folder and continue to do so (enforcing your boundary).  And yes she will escalate and things could get worse before they get better, but if you are consistent she will realize to get what she wants (a response) then she will need to drop the profanity.

In terms of calling the police if the ex shows up at your house, maybe run that by your daughter's Therapist.  My inclination is to do it but my SO chose not to do that in the situations where he might have, it's a tricky balance of boundaries and not causing more distress to the kids than we need to.

More on boundaries (you may have seen these already)
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61684.0
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167368.0

More on extinction burst...
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=85479.0

Panda39
Logged

"Have you ever looked fear in the face and just said, I just don't care" -Pink
Nope
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Person in your life: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 938



« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2018, 08:42:29 PM »

Does she even need to know when SD has her T appointments? It's sometimes easier just to not give the information that will lead to the problem behavior than it is to set a boundary around dealing with the behavior when it happens. Even if it's in the order that she must know about all medical appointments and activities, if you can document inappropriate behavior at the T's office and the T will back you up a judge would likely not be too concerned with a contempt charge on that. I'd even go so far as to not tell SD too far in advance when she'll be seeing the T so that her mom can't wrangle the information out of her.

Logged
worriedStepmom
***
Online Online

Person in your life: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 175


« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2018, 01:30:41 PM »

Does she even need to know when SD has her T appointments? It's sometimes easier just to not give the information that will lead to the problem behavior than it is to set a boundary around dealing with the behavior when it happens. Even if it's in the order that she must know about all medical appointments and activities, if you can document inappropriate behavior at the T's office and the T will back you up a judge would likely not be too concerned with a contempt charge on that. I'd even go so far as to not tell SD too far in advance when she'll be seeing the T so that her mom can't wrangle the information out of her.

Usually we follow your advice and I tell SD the morning of the appointment.  SD never ever talks about the T with uBPDmom, because mom starts ranting about how awful the T is. This time, mom called the T's office and asked when the next appointment was.  I will talk to him at the next appointment about how to handle future inquiries.
Logged
david
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Person in your life: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 4295


« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2018, 07:11:52 PM »

I think letting the T deal with her is a good idea. She showed she can call and figure that out so let her. You have the authority over all therapy so she can't change anything and perhaps the T will get a better handle on her and this may help SD. The T might even get to the point that he is willing to tell a judge mom is a nutcase.
My ex, when allowed to follow her own thoughts, shows people who she really is. I learned the less I interact with her the more she shows her true colors.
I was food shopping years ago after ex left. A woman came up to me and said hello. I had no idea who she was and she realized that. She tried to make me guess but I had no clue. She started laughing and then she gave me a clue. She worked with my ex. She said she remembered me showing up to see my then wife and I would bring some kind of present or something to eat. My ex worked in a hospital and the woman was in her office. She said I was always so kind and thoughtful. She went on and said to stay away from my ex because she is no good. She started telling me how my ex would say she wants to tear my eyes out and smash and stomp on them. I started laughing because I could picture my ex saying that back then. The woman got very serious and said that I really need to stay away from her. I thanked her and said I had no intention of doing any such thing. For close to three years I would bump into someone my ex either knew or worked with. They all said there was something wrong with her and to keep my distance.
I would never had known any of this except for the fact I bumped into these people. I did not remember most of them because I only saw them in passing.
I take our boys for dental checkups, haircuts, doc appointments, etc. If they tell her then she knows. I say communicate nothing to her. She is a nurse and doesn't get involved with any regular checkups.
My ex got some kind of assistance for the boys for reduced school lunches. She is a  nurse and made around $70,000 when we were together. I signed nothing and was not informed about it so I let her deal with that. Two years ago there was a balance towards the end of the year and she sent an email asking me to pay my half. I believe it was around 80 dollars. My reply was that I didn't realize we were supposed to split things 50/50 but I would agree. I told her I would have to call my employer and find out how much I was paying for the boys healthy insurance and I would get back to her on how much she needed to give to me. Her employer actually pays the full amount for health insurance but I never even attempted to talk to her about that. She decided she would pay the entire amount herself. I guess she outsmarted me again.
Logged

worriedStepmom
***
Online Online

Person in your life: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 175


« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2018, 09:49:38 AM »

The T has figured out that we are dealing with severe mental illness.  At the third appointment he asked my H if he really thought living with uBPDmom was in SD's best interests (by then, H had already hired a lawyer for the custody modification).  Last month T told me that SD's relationship with her mom will always be toxic.   T has also told me several times that he is saving all emails, texts, and voicemails from uBPDmom in case they are needed as evidence.   

T is DBT-certified, so I assume he's dealt with a fair number of BPD patients. H is no longer going to talk to uBPDmom about therapy; we're comfortable letting T handle uBPDmom's dysregulations in that space.

It's got to be a little validating for you to know that so many of your xW's acquaintances have figured out who she is. 
Logged
ForeverDad
Retired Staff
*
Online Online

Gender: Male
Person in your life: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 15847


You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2018, 10:52:33 AM »

What has amazed me is how long it takes for the court or other professionals to realize/accept that the obstructive, acting-out parent is displaying poor behaviors and displaying no indication their behaviors will ever change significantly.

In my case, every major threshold in court resulted in me gaining additional authority or time, yet it was done in increments.  Temp order was alternate weekends, two years later final decree was equal time and I was residential parent for school, another three years and I was Legal Guardian, another three years and I got majority time during the school year.

From start to reaching a workable order was 8 years.  My son was nearly 4 when we separated, the last time I walked out of court he was nearly 12 years old.  I would call those some of the most formative years for a child.  For me, I call it my "lost decade".  For my son... it was his formative childhood.
Logged

david
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Person in your life: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 4295


« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2018, 03:14:47 PM »

I like the fact that the T said he was saving everything from bpdmom. It sounds as if you both decide to get more time and have supervised visitation you have someone the courts would recognize as an authority. Judges do not like making decisions. If both parents come to an agreement the judge will go along. If you can't agree the judge will follow the parent with the most reasonable proposal. If a parent thinks the other parent should be restricted somehow the judge will follow the advice of an "expert". If it comes to that, and the T is willing, it would be a good thing. Ex would have to show that the T is not an expert or has a bias of some sort. It doesn't sound like that so I think you are in a good position. The fact that ex hates the therapist is probably because she realizes he is on to her. My ex cuts anyone off that challenges her or she feels she has "lost control".
Logged

worriedStepmom
***
Online Online

Person in your life: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 175


« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2018, 04:35:23 PM »

I definitely think she doesn't like the T because he doesn't fall in with her preferred way of thinking (that SD is wrong to be upset).

H has to make a decision fast on how to handle the next round of crazy texts.  uBPDmom can't read the schedule and showed up at the house to pick up SD.  I had to tell her it wasn't her weekend.  I figure we have about 2 hours before the dysregulation starts.
Logged
david
********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Person in your life: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 4295


« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2018, 07:57:32 PM »

You know better than me but I see two choices.
One, ignore the email or text.
Two, quote the court order with the part that just pertains to this weekend. No more no less. State the fact and if she goes off state the fact again exactly the same way or ignore. I only state facts twice and then I ignore. I get emails again sometime but usually it stops after that. I think she has learned I don't answer after two when I say the same exact thing.
I always assume the courts will see the email so I state it twice. I don't think explaining or saying it again would change the courts view. If anything, they would see you are being reasonable and the other party is picking a fight or simply can't/won't listen to anything you are saying.
Logged

Nope
******
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
Person in your life: Romantic partner’s ex
Posts: 938



« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2018, 03:08:54 AM »

I agree with David. Do nothing but quote the order at her. It's the only authority she may allow to influence her actions. It's also the hardest argument to continue to argue with because it isn't a decision your DH is making. It's a decision the judge has already made.

When my DH has to give the uBPD mom the bad news that she isn't going to get her way regarding any special request, he simply states "I am going to follow the court order and (then states what he is going to do). So in this case, simply saying "I'm going to follow the court order and have SD stay here this weekend." She can get as mad as she wants, but hopefully not having a leg to stand on will shorten the duration of the text marathon.
Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2019?

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2018-2019 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
2020
_EndofLine_
12years
40days_in_desert
99tesla
agapanthus
AKV
alphabeta
anafili
AnalogGuy
Angie59
AnuDay
AskingWhy
aslowrealization
At Bay
babyducks
Baglady
batcon
beatrixkiddo
BeenThereB4
bestintentions
BetterLanes
bgg2745
Bittlecat
Ble55ed
BobbyLongshot
BodieMarie
Boll Weevil
btfly745
BuckeyHusband
busybee1116
Caco Canepa
Cat Familiar
chayka
chillamom
Chosen
chump
Circle
cj488
ClearPath
coworkerfriend
crestfallen72
CryWolf
defogging
devnid
Dignity&Strength
DivDad
Dkandyk
drained1996
Duped 1
eeps
eggshelldad
Ela2011
Elpis51
Enabler
Feeling Better
Fie
Firstintime
foggydew
ForeverDad
ForeverDevoted
Fossil49
Francesca92
freespirit
Gagrl
Gemsforeyes
gettingoverit
gloveman
Good2behere
gorges
gotbushels
Greta1988
Hadenoughtimes4
HappyChappy
Harley Quinn
Harri
heartandwhole
hope2727
Hope80
Hopeful15
Hyacinth Bucket
I Am Redeemed
IamWoman
Iloveher
jdc
JeanGenie
Jerome Finn
JNChell
joeramabeme
jones54
Jonthan
k-bliss
k54
kabunk
Klera
Lbjnltx
Learning Fast
leenlou
Libra
Long_term_dad
Lostinthedesert
Lovelycat
Lucky Jim
mama-wolf
Manifest32f
Maniplus
Maple
maried
Markey
MARS22
MeandThee29
mims
mmelibrarian
mousemat
Mousse
mraa90
mscj
Mustbeabetterway
Mutt
ncDaisy2
needPeace
no_more_guilt
Northern girl
NorthernGirl
Notgoneyet
OffRoad
Only Human
otherlife
Pam Letgo
Panda39
pcglee
peaceandlove
PeacefulMom
Pina colada
pjmanley41
purpletrixie
QBert
qcarolr
Radcliff
Recycle
Red5
Reforming
ReluctantSurvivor
RJ2018
Rocko
RolandOfEld
sadandlonely
SamwizeGamgee
schwing
SCM
Scottie345
scrambledbeans
sdyakca
seahorse
seekerofgrace
SerendipityChild
SES
Shawnlam
Skip
sklamath
Solidshadow
spero
sterlingblue
Stevenson
stimpy
SuCanDo
Sumsaam
SweetCharlotte
Sweetpea18
takingandsending
Tattered Heart
Teno
terranova79
theschnitz
Tinkerbelle
trappeddad
TRB
truthbeknown
Turkish
walkinthepark247
Want2Know
wendydarling
WhatJustHappened?
whirlpoollife
Whoad
WileyCoyote
wilting
WindofChange
Woodchuck
Woolspinner2000
yamada
zemara
Zen606
zoome46

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2018, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!