UBPDh went to the hospital the other night; refused mental health treatment

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi guys,

My MIL called me today. UBPDh called her crying and having a breakdown yesterday while he was at work. She said she couldn't understand a lot of what he was saying, that he wasn't making much sense, but she was able to figure out that he had spent a night in the hospital.

She said that the only parts she could decipher from what he was saying was something about there being two people that he thought he could trust, but he was wrong, and he had gone to sleep but didn't remember going to sleep and there were people coming and going in and out of his motel room all night. He had called 911 and went to the hospital, and they recommended that he go to the mental health crisis center but he refused.

I asked her if he thought he had been drugged with something. She said she couldn't get a straight answer out of him, but he had said something like "I might have done something I shouldn't have done" and when she tried to ask what he meant he started talking about something else.

She said he was bawling and crying and said he had moved out of that motel into a different one and he had thought he would get some money back on the first motel because he had paid up for a week. But they just charged him by the day since he didn't stay the whole week and so he didn't get any money back, and he was upset because he couldn't buy S2 a birthday present. He is upset because Friday is S2's birthday (he will be three) and also our daughter's birthday (she will be five) and he isn't going to get to see them. He wants to talk to me; he said he has accepted that I am not coming back but he wants to talk to me because I get to see the kids and he wants to hear about how they are doing.

He is supposed to have supervised visitation with our oldest kids (minus s2) every other week. So far he has only made it to one visit. The last two times he did not show up, with no explanation.

Personally, it sounds to me like he relapsed again. If he used methamphetamine again, it could have been mixed with a hallucinogenic or other substance (like what happened last year) and if he talked and acted in the hospital the way he was talking and acting last year when he was on that stuff, its little wonder they wanted him to go to the mental health crisis center.

Not only is Friday S2 and D4's birthday, but Saturday is uBPDh's birthday and Monday is his mother's birthday. Lots of important dates coming up that could have triggered a breakdown and/or relapse.

He begged her to call me, so she did. But there is nothing I can do, and I am not going to get guilt tripped into talking to him just because it's our kids birthday and he won't get to see them. It's not my fault. He caused this, all of it.

It's just so frustrating and emotionally exhausting.

Redeemed

[Cat Familiar]

Hmmm... .this doesn't bode well for him keeping his job. And perhaps it's a desperate ploy to try and get you back to rescue him once again.

Also this demonstrates that he's not open to getting help. He doesn't want to acknowledge having a mental illness.

And, as you've mentioned, it could also be that he's doing drugs again.

So sorry you're having to hear about this, but it's good that you've got the self awareness not to rescue him. He is responsible for himself, but he refuses to accept that fact.

[I Am Redeemed]

Yes, Cat, I don't see that any good can come from breaking NC. There's nothing I can do. I feel that any contact would only trigger escalated contact attempts and I can't handle that.

My dv counselor and I are working through the symptoms of PTSD. It looks like I actually do have it. I didn't think I did, but I understand the disorder more now and I have more symptoms than I realized.

I feel that any contact with him would be triggering for me. I genuinely hope that someday he will get effective treatment, but I don't see it happening short of involuntary hospitalization. That doesn't happen very often in my state. Even when he attempted suicide and spent five days in ICU, all the hospital did was have a counselor evaluate him using a checklist and then asked him to sign a "no harm" contract.

As far as the guilt trip he is trying to use on me by saying that he would like to talk to me so he can ask about the kids, well, he hasn't been going to his court ordered visitation with them, so I don't feel guilty about it. He has been to exactly one visit in almost two years. Of course that's not his fault, though... .as usual.

It's just really hard to hear that he is such a mess. I don't see a good outcome for this at all, and it makes me sad... .especially for my kids. S2 really misses him.

Redeemed

[Cat Familiar]

Yes, if you broke NC, then he'd see that this behavioral ploy (not saying that it's entirely that, but there might be a slight element of manipulation here) works and then he'd use it again.

I absolutely had PTSD from my first marriage, and most likely from my upbringing with my mother. I guess I still do, but it doesn't rise to the level of feeling disabling, or maybe I'm just accustomed to it as an ambient state. 

It's truly sad that he is, as you say, such a mess. That tells you how much you'd been propping him up all these years. Until he takes responsibility for himself, nothing will change for the positive. It's sad, but that's the reality.

[Mutt]

Hi I Am Redeemed,

Reading your post he's self absorbed it's all about him did MIL and uBPDh ask about you? It sounds like he wants soothing with that in mind is he viewing you as a person or as an object? I agree with you take care of you.

[empath]

It's hard to hear about their decline. Getting space away from the trauma and triggers is helpful for regaining stability; I'm glad you're talking with the dv counselor about it all.

He is making choices not to see the kids; that's not something that you need to feel responsible for. I remember my h wanting me to facilitate him visiting our granddaughter. He would say that he didn't feel comfortable... .  I figured that he needed to be responsible for his relationship with our kids and gd.

Be careful... . 

[I Am Redeemed]

Mutt,

UBPDh is and always has been completely self absorbed. It's all about him and his pain. Never mind that I have PTSD from the abuse... .he doesn't believe his behavior is the source of any struggle I might have. He blames my childhood, my exes, anyone but him. He has never acknowledged the abuse... .he prefers to call it "I made a mistake" or "we were both wrong for arguing and fighting".

MIL does ask how I am. She said she absolutely understands what I am going through and she knows I can't help him, just as she can't. She just wanted me to know what happened and that he wanted to talk to me, and that he changed motels and is no longer at the number that I have blocked.

Empath,

UBPDh used to expect me to facilitate all his visitation with the kids. He was the one who said he couldn't get off work to see them, but he wanted me to be responsible for talking to the lawyers, social workers and other personnel on his behalf to work out an alternative. He wanted everything done for him. I don't know why he hasn't been visiting with them this time, but I am not going to be the link between my kids and their mentally unstable father. If he cared enough about being their dad then he would take steps to be healthy so he can have a relationship with them. I tried to force him to do that, and it never worked. Once again, his pain is all that matters, he has no capacity to consider anyone else's feelings or emotional and mental struggling.

It sounds like he has spiraled into a complete depression and mental breakdown. He tried so hard to control everything I did, said, felt, and once I removed myself from his manipulation and control completely, he lost it. And he thinks his pain is an excuse to act out, as usual.

Redeemed

[Cat Familiar]

UBPDh is and always has been completely self absorbed. It's all about him and his pain.

He wanted everything done for him. His pain is all that matters, he has no capacity to consider anyone else's feelings or emotional and mental struggling.

He tried so hard to control everything I did, said, felt, and once I removed myself from his manipulation and control completely, he lost it. And he thinks his pain is an excuse to act out, as usual.

Hi Redeemed,
I excerpted a few sentences from your post that are almost universal for anyone with a BPD partner on the more extreme end of the spectrum.

Though knowing how common these behaviors are, gives us solidarity with other folks here, but it doesn't really put salve in our own wounds. It is, however, helpful to know what we were up against and despite our best efforts, how difficult it was to make things better.

You seem to be in a very good place and I'm so happy for you that you've been getting good support from your DV counselor.

Cat

[Radcliff]

Hi Redeemed,

It's been a long while since I've posted in one of your threads, so I wanted to stop by and wish you well.  You've come a long way.  What you are doing takes courage.

I'm sorry to hear that you're suffering from PTSD, but am glad that you have learned about it.  Trying to avoid triggering events, especially by limiting contact, was the most important thing for me to begin reducing the damage.  Do you have insurance coverage for therapy, or are there funded programs for therapy for DV survivors in your area?

RC

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hi Redeemed,

I just wanted to stop by and give some support and a .

Sounds like you are on a good path and I am so happy for that.  Take care.

Mustbe

[I Am Redeemed]

Radcliff and Must be,

Good to hear from you both! Thanks for checking in with me.

I am able to participate in trauma focused therapy for free as a dv survivor. I am also continuing with my regular therapist as soon as I get approved for the "safety net" program, which is the program that helps low income clients receive counseling and medication at the mental health center which is an extension of my city's general hospital.

I have absolutely had to keep NC. The triggers when I was still in contact were constant. It has been hard and I have been very depressed. I never wanted this outcome, but I did everything I could to prevent it. The only other option would be to return to a life of recurring abuse in all forms, and that option is not acceptable to me. It is, in fact, unfathomable, and for the first time in my life, I see it as the extremely detrimental risk that it is.

My dv therapist and I are going through a PTSD checklist of symptoms and exploring the roots of the guilt and responsibility I feel for the emotional well-being of a person who has caused me great harm. We are taking a look at my childhood and figuring out how I developed the belief system and thought patterns that I have. I have spent so much time trying to figure out uBPDh, but now I am trying to focus on me. I may never have all the answers for why he acts the way he does, and I couldn't change him even if I did, but I can find the answers for me. I can discover my "why", and I can actually make a difference with that information.

My main concern right now is making time for relaxation and recharging. I spend most of my time with my three year old son, plus I keep two (sometimes three) other kids under the age of four for seven hours a day three days a week... .then go straight to work. The child care situation is really stressful for me, but I don't have another option right now. I have barely any free time, but I have been giving up a shift here and there at work so I don't completely burn out.

In some ways it's tougher now than a year ago when the abuse was fresh. I guess I have had time to get far enough away from it that the magnitude of it is sinking in, and it is intense.

The end of my marriage is looming and I can't deny it or keep it at bay any longer. I don't know if I am grieving it more for me or for him. I would hate to be the person who forced the one person who truly cared for me to have to end a relationship because I was so destructive. That would be a horrible reality.

But of course, he doesn't live that reality. It is too horrible to accept, so he has created alternate facts that are more mentally palatable.

I have been ruminating a lot. It gets to the point where my every day responsibilities feel like nothing more than interruptions to my ruminating. That is not a good thing. I told my therapist how much I am doing it.

I realized during the course of a rumination marathon the other day that I finally think I understand why the fear of me leaving him for good never deterred him from continuing to abuse me. It's because he decided long ago that I was going to leave eventually, and he decided why... .he always thought that I would find someone else. He thought I had the same fear of being alone that he does, that I couldn't possibly do without a relationship. He long ago assigned to me thoughts, fears and behaviors that were never based on facts or on anything that had to do with me, with who I actually am, how I actually am. He treated me as if I thought, felt and acted like the fictional me instead of the real me. So he will never accept responsibility for the downfall of the marriage... .he set me up as the villain long ago. He never learned from his mistakes nor made sincere resolved effort to change, because he decided long ago that I was unfaithful and disloyal and would betray him... .he searched for evidence and validation of his delusions and created them from nothing when no concrete evidence presented itself. His version of our relationship and why it ended is only a fulfillment of the delusional view he had all along. He was never going to "see the light", because he was too busy chasing shadows.

I think maybe that's the most frustrating part of dealing with someone with a personality disorder... .you want so badly for them to just see things the way they really are... .just see the truth, which sometimes seems so obvious that it doesn't make sense to NOT see it... .but they don't. Won't. Can't. Because it is a disorder. You can't convince a clinically paranoid person that their delusions are false, you can't convince a clinically depressed person that they don't have to feel sad, and you can't convince a clinically disordered person to suddenly drop their ingrained mental defense mechanisms and see the truth that you see, no matter how clear it is.

One day at a time. That's all I can do. I will be filing for divorce later this month, but I can't think of that yet. Today, this moment, is all I have to focus on.

Best of luck to both of you. Can I ask you both where you are in the detaching process, and how you are both feeling with that?

Thanks again,

Redeemed

[Cat Familiar]

Hi Redeemed,
Awesome that you’re doing a deep dive into your childhood!   Looking into our pasts and taking charge of our futures gives us freedom from repeating the same dysfunctional patterns.

You are working so hard, between your primary job and doing childcare, I can imagine that you feel exhausted. But part of that is also coming to terms with what you went through in the last decade with your stbx.

I understand when you say it’s now more difficult than when the abuse was fresh. Then you were running on adrenaline and now you are recovering from all that you endured.

Having been there too, I will say that it does get easier with time and you just have to patiently process all those feelings you stuffed back then. But at the same time, there’s a tremendous gift in the process. You know in your bones that you are a warrior woman, who dwells in peace. But you will never again tolerate unkind treatment for yourself or your children. It’s like unlocking a membership to a sorority that has existed for millennia. Those of us who’ve walked in your path... .we understand.

Be kind to yourself. You didn’t ask for this. You did the best you could. And we understand. 

Cat

[Radcliff]

Hi Redeemed,

Thanks for asking.  I'm in the middle of the end of my marriage, and am continuing to make progress detaching.  It is tough.  We do have regular contact via e-mail and text to resolve things about the kids, so I'm still applying the tools I learned here.  Your point about our abuser living in an alternate reality because they can't face what they did really struck home with me.  She is losing her husband of 24 years, the father of her children.  I'm sad that she couldn't admit what she did, understand the impact on me, and be safe.  I would have stayed.  She is really smart, had a ton of therapy, and still doesn't get it.  I've made progress at being less reactive, less fearful, and bouncing back quicker when triggering events happen.  I've been starting to do fun outdoor activities and have reconnected with old friends and made new ones, which is helping to fill my life in a positive direction.

Keep up the good work.  Another thing you said that resonated with me is that with the clarity we've gained, our determination not to go back is strong.  I am so glad you've achieved this clarity.  We've both got a long journey of recovery and growth ahead of us.  We'll need it!

RC

[I Am Redeemed]

Cat,

I am exhausted. I still feel like I am on a hamster wheel, running in circles doing the same thing every week. I just try to remember that there is progress being made, however slowly.

The therapy is not just about why I stayed in an abusive relationship so long, it's about how I deal with all relationships. I make decisions based on avoidance of disappointing, hurting feelings, inconveniencing or otherwise putting out someone else... .even when it's detrimental to me. It's not a bad thing to be considerate of others, but there must be balance. So my therapy is partially about learning the art of balancing my responsibility for myself (and children) with responsibility to others.

I have been given a worksheet about self advocacy. Lots of abuse victims are foreign to this concept, particularly victims of gaslighting. Not all of it was true for me, but most of it was.

RC,

I understand your sadness. I wanted the same thing, for him to recognize the impact his behavior had on me and to realize that he would need to do significant work to change it. I would have stayed, I would have supported him, but his claims of change were shallow as usual.

Something he said to me a few months ago really struck me, and not the way he intended. In one of his attempts to convince me he really was going to be different this time, he told me that he really wasn't sorry all the other times that he had apologized for the abuse and promised to change. This time was different, he assured me.

That was enough to make me realize how pathological his behavior is. "I lied all those other times, but now I'm telling the truth." Really? That's supposed to make me trust him?

His intent, I'm sure, was to contrast those apologies (which led to no change whatsoever) with this one (which he hoped to convince me was genuine so I would believe that there would be a different outcome and thus resume the relationship... .again.)
What he actually did was draw my attention to the fact that he was, in essence, admitting that he previously had abused me and failed to feel true remorse for it.

All the times he screamed at me, spit on me, threw lit cigarettes at me, grabbed me and dragged me by the hair... .he wasn't really sorry. When he kicked me and left a huge scar in my leg, he wasn't really sorry. When he punched me in the face and broke my jaw, when he strangled me until my collarbone snapped in two and I lost consciousness... .he wasn't really sorry.

He did all those things and more over the course of seven years, and he thought that telling me that his previous apologies for doing these things were empty, fake... .but this time it was genuine... .he thought that would work in his favor.

All it did was show me that he is way more disturbed than even I thought. Who could do those things and not feel remorse... .and who would think it's a good idea to tell someone that your previous claims of remorse were faked just to manipulate that person.

It makes my blood run cold.

How do you handle the triggers when you have to have contact, RC? I am so afraid right now that I am in complete avoidance mode. I doubt that will be sustainable, because I know he will have to have some visitation rights. I'm scared to death of resuming contact.

Does the emotional abuse continue with your stbxw? How do you handle it?

Thanks for listening, guys.

Redeemed

[Cat Familiar]

The therapy is not just about why I stayed in an abusive relationship so long, it's about how I deal with all relationships. I make decisions based on avoidance of disappointing, hurting feelings, inconveniencing or otherwise putting out someone else... .even when it's detrimental to me. It's not a bad thing to be considerate of others, but there must be balance. So my therapy is partially about learning the art of balancing my responsibility for myself (and children) with responsibility to others.

I could have written the exact same words a few years ago, Redeemed. When I began counseling after my divorce, I remember my therapist saying, "We've got to build you a self."

Apparently that was successful, as now I've got such a self in spades that sometimes I'm wondering if I'm verging on becoming a narcissist.  

I wanted the same thing, for him to recognize the impact his behavior had on me and to realize that he would need to do significant work to change it. I would have stayed, I would have supported him, but his claims of change were shallow as usual.

Something he said to me a few months ago really struck me, and not the way he intended. In one of his attempts to convince me he really was going to be different this time, he told me that he really wasn't sorry all the other times that he had apologized for the abuse and promised to change. This time was different, he assured me.

That was enough to make me realize how pathological his behavior is. "I lied all those other times, but now I'm telling the truth." Really? That's supposed to make me trust him?

Last night I was having a discussion with a girlfriend and we were talking about our ex-husbands and wondering what they were now doing. I told her that I have had no contact with mine whatsoever, other than just a few months ago hearing from a company he stiffed for payment trying to track him down. She laughed and said that she had a similar call.

Neither of us want to open any doors where they could potentially contact us, but we're still curious and we both wonder if they've ever had any awareness or remorse about how they treated us. I told her that even if my ex were to contact me and tell me that he felt badly for having been so abusive, it really wouldn't mean much to me. Words are cheap and his "realizations" never led to enduring behavioral change.

I am so sorry for all the horrible things you endured, Redeemed. I look back on similar episodes in my life and it's like watching a movie--it's hard to believe that someone who said he loved me would have behaved that way.

   

Cat

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hi Redeemed,

I’m so sorry for the things you endured.  I admire your courage and tenacity. You say you know you will have to have contact with him in the future, well, maybe not.  But, you don’t have to now.  So keep on your journey and keep growing in self confidence  and self awareness.  It’s not selfish.

I am finally at a point where I feel detached from his problems.  I don’t feel the need to fix them whatsoever anymore.  I was dedicated to our marriage for decades and the end result was that for my health, sanity and not least, my happiness, I needed to move forward, to get unstuck, and I have.

I can still be triggered by the things he texts me, but I choose to communicate with him as least I can.  He tries to push my buttons and get inside my head, still.  No/low contact, plus time apart, plus therapy and the work I have done on myself has helped  me continue to work past that.

I have completed paperwork with an attorney to file for divorce. I have grieved so much for the relationship over the past years that I am now in acceptance that it’s finally over.  And I feel at peace about it.

My life is a journey and I was in that relationship until I learned the lessons I needed to learn.  I gave it my all and with a clear conscience, I can move along on my journey.  

I wish this and more for you, Redeemed.  You deserve it.

Peace and blessings,

Mustbe

[I Am Redeemed]

Thanks Cat and Must be,

I am grieving, I am in an anger phase. Not just because of losing the dream of having a healthy relationship, or because of the pain I endured, but because I really am just sick of thinking about him every single freaking day and of feeling sorry for his losses as well as mine.

It's like feeling grief for two instead of one. I realize that I am a person who feels empathy and compassion a little more intensely than some people, but honestly, I am just fed up with it.

I'm still struggling with self advocacy and making decisions. I am sick of the doubt and sick of wondering all the time what the right thing to do is. I'm just tired, period. S3 is becoming a handful, and I have been planning to move out on my own but my pregnant roommate is having to find another job and she is due to have a baby in April. I think her bf wants to move in, but she is not ready for that, she has told him she needs some space. She wants to move too, but can't afford it and now I feel obligated to stay even though the situation is well past meeting my needs. My sister has enrolled my kids in so many extracurricular activities that I am being put on the back burner as far as visitation goes. My only hope for more time with my kids is to move out and petition the court for unsupervised overnight visitation. Meanwhile, I need to file for divorce and my protection order ran out last month. I am worried that if I try to get a new one now that I will be judged for not renewing it sooner.

All these thoughts are weights that are contributing to increasing depression. I am still in counseling, but it fills me with anxiety to have to ask every week for someone to babysit so I can go to counseling. I am afraid of wearing out the people who help me.

I am sick of being anxious about everything. All my life I have lived with anxiety over these same kinds of things... .How to find win-win solutions, and if I can't, then I usually sacrifice for the benefit of someone else. I'm still struggling with the same patterns and I am frustrated and discouraged about it.

Redeemed

[Cat Familiar]

I am grieving, I am in an anger phase. Not just because of losing the dream of having a healthy relationship, or because of the pain I endured, but because I really am just sick of thinking about him every single freaking day and of feeling sorry for his losses as well as mine.

Totally understandable. You’ve spent well over a decade attending to his concerns and you are a compassionate person and you care about his feelings, but he doesn’t seem to reciprocate that.

I'm still struggling with self advocacy and making decisions. I am sick of the doubt and sick of wondering all the time what the right thing to do is.

You are more familiar with trying to please and take care of others. Making your own decisions and feeling confident that you are doing what you perceive to be best—that’s a new skill that you are learning, so be patient with yourself—having confidence in your decisions takes practice and you’ve been dealing with very consequential decisions, not easy ones.

I'm just tired, period. S3 is becoming a handful, and I have been planning to move out on my own but my pregnant roommate is having to find another job and she is due to have a baby in April.

You are considering her needs, rather than giving yours priority. You’ve got a lot of concerns right now and thinking about all of them likely feels overwhelming.

Let’s triage your most important issues: what is the most pressing concern you have right now? How about we assign numbers to all these topics: housing, time with older kids, divorce, protection order, taking care of depression.

What is the most important topic here? What if you take care of that first, then attend to the others when you have time. First things first.

I am sick of being anxious about everything. All my life I have lived with anxiety over these same kinds of things... .How to find win-win solutions, and if I can't, then I usually sacrifice for the benefit of someone else.

Good that you are aware of this!  It may feel overwhelming right now, but having this awareness gives you options for doing things differently, should you choose. If you’re not aware of your patterns, it’s likely that you will repeat them.

[empath]

Redeemed,

You are dealing with so many very heavy things. Sometimes, it can all get overwhelming if we think in the big scope of things. I have found just taking the step that I see in front of me is about all I can do sometimes.

[I Am Redeemed]

Cat,

At first glance I don't know how to assign numbers to any of this. They all seem to vie for importance.

But looking closer I would say that taking care of depression is the first step, because it hinders motivation to do anything else and impairs judgment and decision making.

Protection order might seem to be important when you look at the list. However, I just don't have the motivation to do it. I don't want to spend the energy on it. to be frank. I don't want to go through another court date. I don't want the stress and anxiety of that, plus it would require finding a sitter and having to ask my coworker to find a sitter since I watch her kids during business hours.

To me, the housing and kids issue is one and the same. I need the housing to increase the visitation. I've been working towards this goal for a year, and spinning my wheels.

I have been on supervised visitation with my kids for five years. I think that is darn long enough. And they need me, especially the oldest ones. They miss me and my heart breaks for them.

I think I have let other things take priority over that way too much, and for too long.

Redeemed

[Cat Familiar]

You are getting your priorities in order and definitely taking care of depression first is a great step. 

I've dealt with it too and I understand how debilitating and amotivating it can be. Is it worse in the winter? Mine can be, but if I get outside and get enough exercise, that helps.

I think you're realizing that rather than letting "other things take priority" you've let another individual take priority, and now you are done doing that.

[Mustbeabetterway]

Redeemed,

I agree with Cat, looking at everything you have to deal with at once is overwhelming.  I have been there.  Having a priority list is a good first step.  When you have a specific goal, you can move towards it, even if you have to take baby steps.

The space you are getting by detaching will allow you to breathe and let your focus be on you.  A healthy you will help your kids, too.

Looking forward to hearing how you are moving along.

Mustbe

[I Am Redeemed]

Cat,

Yes, depression is worse in the winter for me. I absolutely hate the cold. By the time the holidays are over, I am ready for spring. I basically just endure January, February and March every year.

The cold makes it harder for me to get motivated to get out and do things. I just want to hole up inside the house and it's really hard to make myself do anything when I don't have to be somewhere at a scheduled time.

Must be,

I discussed feeling overwhelmed with my counselor and we talked about making a list and crossing things off. I have somewhat done that. My problem is that I second guess myself so much and I start doubting my decisions. I have had the "you're selfish" label drummed into me and I am so afraid of making a mistake. I get paralyzed with indecision. My stress response is freeze and sometimes fawn, so I have a tendency to stay frozen because I don't know what to do.
Also I have a very avoidant personality. It was much worse when I was younger, in fact there was a time when I met most of the criteria for avoidant personality disorder. I have come a long way, and I know that I can go further. I am just frustrated with the process, but I know from experience (with recovery from substance abuse particularly) that the only way out is through. *Sigh*.

Thanks for your support, y'all

Redeemed

[Cat Familiar]

My problem is that I second guess myself so much and I start doubting my decisions. I have had the "you're selfish" label drummed into me and I am so afraid of making a mistake. I get paralyzed with indecision. My stress response is freeze and sometimes fawn, so I have a tendency to stay frozen because I don't know what to do.

I know exactly what you mean, Redeemed, being programmed to believe I was "selfish" and being afraid of making mistakes.

When I finally took a good hard look at the circumstances where I was labeled "selfish", I realized that it was my BPD mother and my BPD ex-husband who figured out that they could keep me on a short leash with that word. They called me selfish if I wasn't complying with their whims or if I was just being autonomous. Neither of them applied that stringent criteria by which they judged me, to themselves. 

I still have problems with second guessing myself. And there is much that is positive in that, though sometimes, as you well know, it can be paralyzing.

You sound like a very mindful person and you probably look at a decision from a multitude of angles: who does this affect, what are the costs and benefits, what does this preclude, what other choices do I have, would it be better to do this now or to wait, what do I risk by doing this, what do I risk by not doing this... .  I could go on, and on, and on... .

When I find myself not understanding what is/are the most important criteria for making a decision, I get out the pen and paper and start listing issues in two columns: plusses and minuses. Just doing this helps me get an overview.

Do I second guess myself at times? You bet. Do I regret some decisions I've made? Sure. But at the time and with the available information I had, I know that I really did my best. Mistakes happen and we need to forgive ourselves and move on. (That's a teaching I had to learn as an adult--I didn't get that in my family upbringing.)

[Radcliff]

Redeemed, I'm sorry for all that you have experienced, but am thankful that you've come to a point of clarity about not letting it happen again and getting a new start.

Yes, emotional abuse still continues for me.  There are not as many opportunities because we are living separately.  I'm slowly getting better at not being triggered over time, but sometimes it still gets to me.

As for in-person contact, there's no easy answer.  I find that when I bump into her I have this strange need for things to be good between us, and I end up being very nice, sometimes too accommodating.  Or, I'll do something or say something that she then twists and uses against me.  Encounters when kids are present can be especially risky, since I don't want to make waves in front of the kids.  My best advice is to minimize contact.  I frequently underestimated how tough contact would be.  Don't feel like you have to have contact for the benefit of anyone else, including the kids.  Is it feasible to completely eliminate contact?  With the level of violence you've experienced this certainly would be a reasonable thing for you to do.  Another option is to have a support person with you.  Under no circumstances would I meet with him in a non-public place and without a neutral adult present.

I know you're doing a lot of work.  Have you heard of the Cloud and Townsend book, Safe People?  I just read it, and think you'd find it helpful.

RC

[I Am Redeemed]

Empath,
Sorry, I missed your reply. I try to do what is right in front of me, but I am so used to multitasking that I tend to worry that way, too . I am also a person who doesn't like clutter, and these pressing issues feel like mental clutter that I need to straighten out to bring my anxiety down... .just like organizing and cleaning bring my anxiety down at work and home.

RC,

I don't know what to expect from the divorce. I know he doesn't have the money to get an attorney and contest it. He has three domestic violence convictions that involve me... .more in the past. The really severe violence, though, is undocumented. I have no proof that he did those things, only the ones he was convicted of. However, that may be enough to limit his visitation or at least any contact I may have to have with him. I don't want to cut him off completely from s3, but I will not agree to anything that I feel will give him the opportunity to put me in danger.

He continues to persist in trying to contact me by any possible means, including through YouTube and also through the you version Bible app that I use to do devotionals. The latest plea was for me to let him take s3 to a church function. I don't even know what church he is talking about ( not that I would even fall for that.) Last his mother heard about church from him, he was disillusioned with the churches he had been attending (which alternated between Baptist and Church of Christ) because he didn't feel encouraged enough or hear enough word of faith (a recurring complaint he has had with any church we ever tried to go to, he devalued them all eventually) and he was now going to go to the seventh day Adventist Church. (In the past, he has also studied with Jehovah's witnesses, Mormons, minnonites, Lutheran's, and the Amish. He's tried just about every branch of Christianity.)

I just want my son and me to stay safe. If any contact must be necessary in the future, I plan to use email as some other members here have suggested.

Redeemed

[I Am Redeemed]

PS,

I have not heard of that book, but I am going to see about getting it.

Redeemed

[Red5]

Hello Redeemed,

I just want my son and me to stay safe.

I’ve been away for a little while, been catching up.

I want you to know, that you and your son are in my thoughts  and prayers tonight.

Please take good care now, I pray that the love of Jesus Christ will keep you safe, and protected, my warmest and kindest regards to you and your son.

Red5

[Radcliff]

I respect the fact that you want to conserve your energy for the most vital things, and your list of tasks is overwhelming.  If at some point you want to consider it, local DV centers may have an advocate who can write up the restraining order paperwork for you, without needing a lawyer.  I know that may still require time off work, but maybe with an appointment you could minimize that.  It feels like something that may be important for you to pursue if you cannot establish protective boundaries otherwise.

RC

[I Am Redeemed]

Thanks, Red, you and your son are in my prayers too. Seems like there are similarities in our situations... .I've been told I am co-dependent too. And struggling with detaching out of sheer necessity, not because it's what I wanted to happen.

RC,
I got the protection order paperwork from my dv counselor. I have to file it on my own. Legal services will go with me to court, but I still have to go.
Going to talk to counselor tomorrow about the reasons why I am stressing over this. I am really mostly afraid of asking for another protection order nearly a month after the other one expired. Fear of judgment, a familiar anxiety.

Thanks everyone,
Redeemed

[Harri]

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