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Author Topic: She is trying to reconcile after being separated, with divorced signed & final  (Read 1015 times)
Sweetpea18

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« on: January 23, 2019, 07:06:05 PM »

So, my ex wife and I have been living separated and divorced since October (Divorce is final in February, but has already been signed by the judge and is final).  She and I have had very few discussions, other than our child for several months.  She started seeing a new man in November and has been with him consistently since then.  Her and I have had very few discussions or interactions, usually via text in regards to custody arrangements and stuff like that.  The trauma bond was pretty strong between us.  Me the Codependent and her the un-treated BPD.  Needless to say, I took the last 4 months of "radio silence" between us to work to sever those bonds, and it was NOT easy, cause I mourned the "death" of our marriage and started working on me and finding out who I am.  It was an arduous process, wrought with self doubt, fear and anger at the whole situation.  I left because of the abuse, because of the chaos, because of the drinking and such.  I also, have to acknowledge, that during that situation my behavior was not as it should have been either.  I was angry, bitter, frustrated, hurt, and I withdrew and would match her verbal barrages with those of my own.  During those times, the few interactions we had, were her attempting to cause drama and chaos by trying to hurt me with information about how amazing her new relationship is and how messed up I was.  Her attempt were futile, as I will admit they killed me inside, I did not react to them and would not give her the satisfaction of knowing I was as hurt as I was... .The few times we would talk, she would start with her yelling and frustration and old me would have taken it right back to her (I didn't know when we were married she had this, didn't even know what BPD was, since learning about it, I have become a voracious reader on the topic and learned that reacting the way I did, was not always the best).  I realized that she wanted the drama and stress between us (Which was are M.O. while married.  We would have chaos, fight, argue, tear each other up, and then "make-up" in the bedroom, and all the good would be restored... .until the next fight (often the next day or sooner).  Since that was no longer an option, and I started to not care as much, I quit trying to defend myself and quit "engaging", she would rage, and then calm and we would finish our business and that was it.  I stopped texting, stopped calling, and gave her space as she was involved with someone else and I was working on me, exercise, therapy, reading, I lost 40 pounds and found peace and was really learning to accept everything and utilize it to be better inside and out.  Last week, she had major cosmetic surgery, which required extensive post-surgical care.  She and I at this point hadn't spoken in weeks (Although we communicated via text often for child maintenance issues).  We had pre-arranged for me to keep our child for the whole week so she could recover.  For some reason she decided to call, which was a rare occurrence, I answered and she asked about our child, which I told her she was fine, and we made small talk, she asked if I was feeling charitable, if I would bring her something to eat.  We hung up, and I thought about it.

In my spiritual journey and recovery, I had to face somethings about me during this whole process and subsequent divorce.  As much as I wanted to blame her for everything and utilize her behavior to justify my actions, if I'm being honest, I can't do that.  I became a bitter, angry, withdrawn, frustrated, edgy person.  I treated her as poorly as she did me, and in some ways was very cruel to her as well.  I mean, hey, if your going to be cruel to me or mine, I'm going to get my revenge and get my chance to get right back at her.  And, I did this to the detriment of everyone and myself.  Now, knowing what I know about UntPWBPD, this was not the most ideal situation, as she was a "rage" BPD and would just answer to the challenge.  The truth, I contributed to my divorce as she did and I spent the better part of a year blaming her and I had to take a hard strong look at myself, and that is what I did. 

So enough time has passed and in truth, I was comfortable with and made peace that she had a new relationship and had moved on.  I mean, she jammed it and how wonderful it was down my throat every chance she could, so I was forced to hit all these feelings head on, and that is what I did.  No alcohol, no excuses, I hit the gym and therapy and spent time with my kids and I came out the other side a different man.  So, I decided to bring her and her son (my soon to be ex step son) something to eat.  First time I had seen her place in 7 months (we would meet at mutual places for child exchanges).  As I got there, she was in bad shape, so I gave her the food, helped her tend to her surgical needs, and left.  You may ask, why do that?  Well, I did it cause I felt that I had to make amends for some of the things I did and said to her while we were married and when I got out of the fog, I came to realize that my behavior at times was abhorrent, and I felt this was an opportunity to extend an olive branch of peace and maybe a chance for us to co parent with less stress and animosity. 

I went back a couple other times to help her change out bandages, and bring our child to visit her and subsequently, an opportunity to talk about things and our failed marriage and our places in it, was able to occur without defensiveness, anger, blaming, denial.  Actually, the more raw and real conversations we ever had in 7 years of knowing each other.  I utilized the opportunity of her on pain medication (that is why I assume she was amenable to my point of view, which usually escaped her) to really discuss things.  I apologized for my part in things, she did, and my hope was the anger that she harbored for me would slowly be abated. 

Well, during this process, she has now told me that she wants to save our marriage, and I dont feel the same way.  I mean, I still love her, yes, but she knows that at the end of the day, too much has happened and I have accepted and mourned our divorce like a death, and for me it's too late, but she has become relentless.  She told me she and her new guy are on a "break", for which my reply is "why"?  I never asked her for that.  I dont understand why now? 
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kells76
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« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2019, 10:18:18 AM »

Hey Sweetpea18,

Good job focusing on being an amicable coparent    That will really pay off for your kiddos.

It sounds like you're wondering why your xW is now listening to you in a way she never really did before, apologizing, and saying she's taking a break from her BF and wanting to be with you. Big questions. Lots of stuff where maybe you're thinking "Wow, if she could just be like this now, things might be OK. Why couldn't she be like this before?"

I wonder if it could be part of the BPD (or "BPD-like") behavior cluster -- now that there is some distance between you guys, and perhaps she fears "losing you" or you "leaving her", she is willing to do some outer behaviors that will prevent loss and aloneness for her.

(Edit: Perhaps it also feels safer for her to "check all the boxes" now that there is distance between you guys. I wonder if the closer you guys got again, the less functional outer behaviors you would see, and the more of the old ones would come back. Remember that BPD (or even just people who exhibit similar behaviors, without a diagnosis) is a disorder that usually manifests most strongly with the closest relationships. The further away from her you get relationally, maybe the less disordered she seems.)

I haven't had first-hand experience with this (it's my DH's ex who has the behaviors), I know other members have found themselves in similar spots. Have you checked out any threads on the "Conflicted" board? You're not alone in experiencing an ex-partner who, once you make distance between you and her, seems to finally "get it" and do all the things that would've helped the marriage if you were still together.

It's OK to be in a place where for you, it's "too late", too.
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Turkish
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Relationship status: "Divorced"/abandoned by SO in Feb 2013; Mother with BPD, PTSD, Depression and Anxiety: RIP in 2021.
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« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2019, 09:09:48 PM »

As my T told me a few years ago,  "there's nothing wrong with beef kind." It sounds like you are. 

My Ex asked to come back 1.5 years ago.  She was married to the guy (a kid 20 years my junior) she left me for,  but living separately. I had previously helped her through DV (using the protocols I learned here). When I said no,  as kindly as I could, she decided to try to give her marriage another chance.

I'm not a rudder for someone else's boat. 

I think your talk and your kindness is great, but it sounds like you've moved on with a great deal of introspection through suffering. 
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    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
ForeverDad
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Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2019, 10:51:29 AM »

The marriage is over.  You've been living separate lives for a few months.  She knows what sort of person you are, that you're co-dependent.  The distance apart has moderated some of the high conflict of the past.  Her behaviors are not as obvious with the time and distance.  After all, BPD is a disorder more evident the closer the relationship.  Distance makes it less obvious.  (Kells76 wrote similarly above.)  If you go back now then you'd be jumping back onto the roller coaster you just exited.  Do you want that?

That said, I will qualify the above with this exception... . If she is in intensive DBT or CBT therapy, is applying it diligently in her life, thinking, perceptions and behaviors, she has been making solid progress for a few years, then maybe you could safely test out a new and better relationship.

However, it is clear from your post that she has done none of that.  Getting married with her all over again would be a disaster for you and the kids too.  You'd just be doing a huge reset undoing whatever you've recently accomplished.  Sorry, that's the reality.

One question, that's all I have... .Has she started therapy, real therapy and not just a few visits for window dressing, is she applying it diligently in her life and making solid progress toward recovery for a significant length of time?  Anything less and I worry that all you have is a temporary truce, a shaky one.  Yes, right now she's at a disadvantage, she had her lies and stories all prepared and they didn't work.  This time.  Beware, if she's not solidly on the path to recovery, there very likely will be a second time.  And you better believe that the second time around she'll know which behaviors to keep hidden and perhaps even manage to frame you for poor behaviors.  Maybe I'm jaded, but it's better to be jaded and in reasonable control of your life than fooled, taken to the cleaners and on the outside looking in.

Excerpt
From a post on February 5, 2011:
I've posted about this topic a few times before, it's probably a good time to mention it again as it teaches a lesson: Experience is not the best teacher, it is the harshest teacher.  So, if you can, learn from others' experiences.

My lawyer warned me to avoid a trap a prior client had fallen for.  His client was divorcing his wife and the reports had come out well for him, his wife's behaviors were that concerning, he was going to have custody of his children, all that was needed was for him to sign.  One last signature. That's all.  No response to his letter to come in and sign, so he called (probably his secretary) and guess who answered?  The wife.  Yes, they were back together again.   The husband dropped the divorce.  Six months passed.  Then the husband came in wanting a divorce yet again, his wife really hadn't changed after all.  This time around his wife knew which behaviors the court and evaluators scrutinized and which she should avoid during the custody evaluation (or it might have been the court's cheaper parenting investigation) and the second time around the reports recommended the children stay with her.  You see, the second report had little or nothing to do with the first one, dropping the first case and starting over in court had triggered a Full Reset.

My lawyer wanted me to avoid a similar mistake.  He told me that even if she came and danced on my lawn naked, I should think with my big head and not my little one.
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Sweetpea18

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« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2019, 11:19:51 AM »

Wow, thank you all for responding, it helped give me perspective.  I think I need to clarify, the divorce is final, however, in my state, there is a "cooling off" period of six months.  That final date is at the end of February. Our divorce is signed by both of us and cannot be changed or undone, unless BOTH of us were to sign a notarized form together to stop it... .and I won't do that... .I think all of you are right to a certain degree and I needed to hear that.  It's funny we have spoken a lot more in the last week then we did the last 3 years of our marriage and this last year that we have been separated and divorcing.  She admitted to playing a lot of games and "leading" me to believe things that weren't true to "hurt" me.  She did admit to feeling numb and doing things to try to "get over me", but that didn't seem to work. 

I have come so far, emotionally, physically, spiritually, and she told me she can see that.  I think in some ways that bothers her, because she wanted or expected to me to "chase" her and be "devastated and broken" for which I was... .deeply.  The trauma bond was very extensive in our enmeshed relationship.  Even in our discussions now, she still looks to blame me for most of it, or other circumstances... .but she never ever ever blames herself or her actions.  It's funny she is still very raw and emotional and upset about things I did that happen years ago, but she brings them up like they happened yesterday... .mind you, we have been separated for a year.

Forever Dad, no I don't... .and I told her that.  She proceeds to tell me how incredible the new guy is, wealthy, kind, supportive, puts her first, the adventures they do, all of it, but then tells me that she is not in love with him because of me, and I told her that, it seems to me that you and him have something special and you should see that through.  It's funny, I must be emotionally disconnected because the talk of him wasn't as earth shattering as it was in November when they "started" dating (with her, I have no idea where truth, reality, begins or ends).

She is NOT in therapy, and has never been in DBT or CBT therapy.  Again, this is/was all my fault, so the issue(s) were me, not her.  She admitted to making mistakes, but blames being on anti depressants and anti anxiety medication after the birth of our child, and feels that I abandoned her before she was able to recover.  I will admit, during the birth, I was very angry and cruel to her as well... .I didn't understand what the hell I was dealing with and why she was that way towards me and I went toe-to-toe with her instead of trying to be compassionate and tolerant.  However, I know, it wouldn't have mattered long term knowing what I know now.  I mean she is 40, it's going to be very hard for her to change, or even want to change.  The only thing she wanted to change was her appearance, hence all the plastic surgery, I think because she is so empty, insecure and lacking inside, she thinks if she can feel good about her outside, then all will be fixed.  I hope that is true for her, but I'm not so sure.  Of course, I dont say any of this to her, because it wont matter.  I guess no longer engaging her is more proof,  I no longer care so much.

I guess cause I loved her so much, there was always a part of me that hoped things would be different, and I think they are in a way, cause I'm no longer as tied to her as I used to be.  That kind of shocks me as well.  Also, a part of me is scared to lose the me I'm still trying to find after coming out of the fog... .
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Sweetpea18

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« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2019, 11:43:34 AM »

I think the hard part for me is that we definitely still have a strong physical/emotional attraction and I can maintain boundaries, but she has NONE!   Literally, no boundaries at all, and that is hard to work with sometimes, I'm struggling maintaining them when she doesn't have any because it does feel good to be close to her sometimes, like an old blanket.  Not enough to get back together, but enough to enjoy the ease of tensions between us... .
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40days_in_desert
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« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2019, 12:22:38 PM »

Seetpea18,
There are about 95%  similarities between your story and mine. I’m not interpreting that you’re considering reconciliation but wanted to provide some input from my experience. Although my ex had periods of what could be considered clarity and therefore apologized for her contribution to our failed marriage, it would last maybe 2-3 weeks before she was back to blaming me for everything. Another thing to note is that she was rarely specific in her marriage killing contributions. It usually came in the form of “I know that I had my faults too” or “I know that I wasn’t the best wife” etc.
My xw also communicated a desire to reconcile approximately 8 times over the past 3.5-4 years. Not only was she not actively pursuing treatment, she never admitted that she has issues that she needs treatment for.
The take away? It was only words and very little action to support those words. Since there was no past or present actions on her part that would have given me any confidence that she could/would change, I would have been only hoping in hope if I attempted to reconcile. For those out there in a situation where you’re considering reconciliation with a BPD ex... .

1) Make sure you’ve healed enough to be able to “see” if your exBPD has actually exhibited consistent improvements in their behavior.
2) Have a trusted and competent T and a friend or two that you know will tell you the truth that you need to hear. This is to help you see even clearer. (And feedback from the bpdfamily.com members)
3) Establish and communicate healthy boundaries and what you will do if those boundaries are subsequently crossed.
4) Define what you want from the relationship
5) Define what you expect will happen.
6) Decide if you’re willing to live with the deficit between #4 and #5.

I’m sure others can add to this list. Just a few things I learned for myself that helped me.
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“A rogue does not laugh in the same way that an honest man does; a hypocrite does not shed the tears of a man of good faith. All falsehood is a mask; and however well made the mask may be, with a little attention we may always succeed in distinguishing it from the true face.”
― Alexandre Dumas
Sweetpea18

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« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2019, 10:21:09 AM »

Thanks for the input 40 days.  I'm not considering reconciling with her.  She would like me to tear up the divorce, but I'm not going to do that.  I would like to co parent with her, get along with her, as for anything else, I just can't do it.  Fact is, I don't and would never trust her and I know nothing has changed.  The only difference is now, I don't engage, defend, JADE, acquiesce, or any of the things I used to.  She thinks I'm different, because I am.  I'll always love her, she was my first love and we share a child, but I don't think long term, we are good for each other, that we bring out the best in each other.  I'm liking who I am now, this time to find me again.  This time to be alone, and have fun.  While she was out with her new guy, trying to "forget" me because she was "numb", I was meeting with my T, working out, spending time with my kids.  Learning from all the pain and agony.  As passionate and dynamic we can be when we get along and are together, I know in my head and heart, it's temporary.  She NEVER thinks it's her.  She cannot self reflect, self assess, critically think about things and that is difficult to deal with.  It will only be a matter of time before she devalues me and then were right back, in the meantime all the progress I have made will go for nothing, and I will have to start over again, and that is not good for me or my kids.  Emotionally, I'm disconnecting more and more and that is what I wanted and needed.  She helped me get here.  Her actions forced me to confront all of this, instead of me internalizing and ignoring it.  I feel like I'm constantly playing a game of chess with her and that alone can be exhausting.
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40days_in_desert
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« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2019, 09:59:19 PM »

Good for you Sweetpea18... .that’s awesome to hear. I swear our stories are pretty close. Only difference is that I lost 45 lbs and after almost 4 years, I’ve already detached. Glad to hear that you’re where you’re at in the detaching process.
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“A rogue does not laugh in the same way that an honest man does; a hypocrite does not shed the tears of a man of good faith. All falsehood is a mask; and however well made the mask may be, with a little attention we may always succeed in distinguishing it from the true face.”
― Alexandre Dumas
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