I think he expects me to think and feel and act like he does

[Depression = 72% of members]

Mod note: This post was split from the following thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=332905.0

In a lot of way, my H is a mature adult. He's the boss at work and manages a lot of people very well and responsibly. But personal stuff, he'll constantly ask me what I think he/we should do. Even something as simple as what to do about dinner is something he'll absolutely freeze up on and leave to me.

I don't mind helping him and I'm perfectly fine making decisions, but it frustrates me, too, because I don't want that power. I don't want to make all the decisions. I want us to do it together. Yet I'm seeing that probably won't be possible.

In other ways, he's immature. Especially when he's in a mood, he's toddler-like. Even in regular times, he's got a very spoiled-child view of the world. It's all about him. He expects everyone and everything to conform to how he wants or thinks they should be. If they don't, he gets depressed (at best) or rages (at worst) with a few other spots on the spectrum in between.

So, if I'm making a decision and can't read his mind to see what he really wants, and I make the "wrong" call, then it just sets him off.

I see a lot of meshing going on with my H. I think he expects me to think and feel and act like he does -- or how he wants me to -- yet he can't bring himself to make decisions. He wants me to handle things. But when I do and I do it differently from how he wants, it's a sign that we're not in sync. I don't "get" him. It drives him up the wall.

[Ozzie101]

Mod note: This post was split from the following thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=332905.0

In a lot of way, my H is a mature adult. He's the boss at work and manages a lot of people very well and responsibly. But personal stuff, he'll constantly ask me what I think he/we should do. Even something as simple as what to do about dinner is something he'll absolutely freeze up on and leave to me.

I don't mind helping him and I'm perfectly fine making decisions, but it frustrates me, too, because I don't want that power. I don't want to make all the decisions. I want us to do it together. Yet I'm seeing that probably won't be possible.

In other ways, he's immature. Especially when he's in a mood, he's toddler-like. Even in regular times, he's got a very spoiled-child view of the world. It's all about him. He expects everyone and everything to conform to how he wants or thinks they should be. If they don't, he gets depressed (at best) or rages (at worst) with a few other spots on the spectrum in between.

So, if I'm making a decision and can't read his mind to see what he really wants, and I make the "wrong" call, then it just sets him off.

I see a lot of meshing going on with my H. I think he expects me to think and feel and act like he does -- or how he wants me to -- yet he can't bring himself to make decisions. He wants me to handle things. But when I do and I do it differently from how he wants, it's a sign that we're not in sync. I don't "get" him. It drives him up the wall.

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[Cat Familiar]

I've been coming to the same realization as you: I can't give in to the tantrums and cede all control just to keep the peace. It doesn't work in the long run. There's a balance.

I've been coming to some thoughts about tantrums and why it's so counterproductive to, as you say, cede all control to keep the peace.

If we think of pwBPD as frightened vulnerable individuals who somehow missed a stage in the developmental process, then we can have more compassion and understanding about these meltdowns.

When we stand strong with our values and boundaries and are not swayed by the overt emotionality, we often can preempt the full expression while it's in the irritation phase, before it develops into a full-blown tantrum.

Our strength and composure can give our loved ones an anchor in a safe harbor. If however, we too become emotional and frightened by their expression, they will feel even less safe and more likely to have a bigger meltdown.

We have greater emotional and behavioral flexibility at these times, so therefore it's wise to utilize it.

[Ozzie101]

Exactly, Cat.

About three months ago, before I "discovered" BPD or had any idea what was really going on, H was having a bad meltdown and was well on his way to a full-on, throwing and breaking things episode. Suddenly, as I was looking at him, it's like a lightbulb went on.

He's a toddler.

I don't have children myself, but I have younger sisters, a nephew, numerous nieces and a stepson. I've seen and dealt with tantrums. His expression, his mannerisms, all of it fit with the actions of an overwhelmed child.

Automatically, I slipped into my "adult dealing with irrational tiny child" mode: calm, firm, in control. He actually calmed down.

Keeping that attitude when he's upset has helped sometimes, though it doesn't always work. And, I have to say, that realization didn't necessarily make me feel better. A 43-year-old, 5'11", 170 lb. toddler is terrifying.

So, sometimes my asserting my power and taking control helps. At the same time, though, I don't WANT so much power. He regularly cedes decision-making to me or wants me to tell him what to do, even in situations where it's not my place or my business. If I'm not firm or decisive enough, he gets frustrated and angry. If what I suggest or decide doesn't work out, it's my fault. Exhausting.

[Ozzie101]

He's pretty good at taking care of his own stuff and stuff for his son but he resents a lot of it. He's complained before that I don't do enough of that for him. Well, in my opinion, it's not my job. SS isn't my child. I'm happy to help with some things, but there are other things that are, in my opinion, crossing a line. For instance, going to parent teacher conferences (alone), scheduling his birthday party, etc. I'm happy to bake the cake and help out but the planning is in the hands of the mom and dad.

And one reason I hate making the decisions is that, I know from experience, if I make the wrong one, he'll blame me for it. So I find myself struggling to read his mind and figure out which solution will be best and will make him happiest. Something as simple as what's for dinner. If I don't make the right choice and he's in a bad mood, he'll complain and put me down for hours. If I don't handle something the way he thinks I should, again, I get a verbal lashing for it. Makes me hesitant to ever want to take charge.

[Cat Familiar]

I've been trying to dial back on the caretaking and not immediately jump in to "help" especially when my help is neither requested nor wanted. I really was amazed a couple of months ago when my husband was grousing about some issue and I asked him, "Do you want help?" and he said, "No."

Really, then why are you telling me about it if you don't want me to fix it? I just thought this, but I didn't say it. Then the next thing I thought was, Good--I didn't really want to help you anyway about this issue.

All in all, it saves me a lot of time and emotional wear and tear if I don't caretake when it's not wanted.

[Ozzie101]

How do people handle it when the pwBPD actually asks for help but then gets angry when the help doesn't lead to the desired outcome? Or when the advice is requested but then the giver is accused of "lecturing?" This happens to me with H a lot -- and happened again last night. He asks for my help and then if it doesn't work out the way he wants, he blames me for it. Last night he asked what I thought and when I asked a couple of questions, he raged at me for telling him what to do and being a hypocrite.

If I don't help or give advice and try to disengage with empathy, I'm a selfish witch who doesn't care about him and his problems.

[Cat Familiar]

So he blames you if your help doesn't yield the results he had hoped for? And he asks for advice but when you reply, he thinks you're lecturing him? If you don't participate in these requests, he accuses you of not caring.

I've experienced similar things, usually when the relationship is very strained between me and my husband. Sometimes it's only when it's really strained on his part, for whatever reason, and I haven't a clue--I'm just in my happy place and then BOOM! What the heck is going on?

I've asked specifically what sort of help or advice does he want and sometimes he will tell me and sometimes I'm just supposed to know and he gets irritated that I'm asking.

I think the best bet is to try not to be invalidating at those times and knowing how not to do that in the moment can be really tough. Sometimes when I explain things in too much detail, then he thinks I'm acting as though he were stupid and gets offended.

If I tell him my opinion about something when it is quite different from what he thinks and feels, he can feel that I'm "not on his side".

My biggest takeaway about these times is to assess his mood carefully. If he's hungry, angry, lonely, tired (HALT), then I know that no good will come from me explaining anything or trying to assist him unless it's specifically something he asks me to do, such as pouring him a glass of water.

Other times, when he's feeling better, we can have lively discussions, but even then I have to be mindful of not invalidating him.

[Ozzie101]

Thanks, Cat. Yes, that all sounds exactly right. And I can usually tell when he's in a mood or getting close to one. It especially comes up when it involves his family (mine just makes him angry -- his brings up all kinds of stress and anxiety and mixed emotions). He wants advice on how to handle something with them and if I give it, well... .Looking back, there have been times where he's hinted around for help and I've jumped in. I'm going to stop doing that. If he wants help, he can ask point blank. And if it's not something I feel like I can help him with, I'll say so with empathy.

[Cat Familiar]

Sounds like a good plan, Ozzie.  

My husband has frequently complained about his sisters, who live on the opposite coast, and how they don't think he's a "real person" because he doesn't have children, like they do.

In the past, I would wade into that and offer opinions and advice and then WHAM! Suddenly I was "on their side" or if I said something mildly critical about them, he'd circle the wagons and without warning, blood was now thicker than water.  

I feel for you, Ozzie!  

Cat

[Ozzie101]

Yep. Once he told me he was thinking about cutting things off with his biological family and writing them a letter. He asked what I thought of that. I told him that I thought he should do whatever he felt was best and I would support him (I actually thought it was a bad idea but I knew saying that would set him off so I decided to try to be neutral but supportive). A couple of hours later, when he was upset, he accused me of encouraging him to cut off his family.

So, yeah, I've decided it's best for me just to say nothing at all.

Thanks, Cat! Sounds like you've definitely been where I am.

[Cat Familiar]

Sometimes I’ve found that asking questions helped him talk it out in a calm way. “So it really hurt your feelings when your sister didn’t call you back and just sent a one line text?”

Other times, depending upon his mood, asking anything just inflamed his mood and I’m best off with, “Wow” or “Hmmmm”.