Please help I need advice Don't know where to start

[Eleven011]

I wrote this originally in reply to what someone wrote in another thread... .but then I realized that I genuinely *NEED* help and advice that I'm not getting because I'm being too shy about asking for help and really standing up for my needs (but at the same time - I want what's best for my kids!)

So the poster who got me started on this, wrote (among other things):
"I find myself in sort of the family relations version of "you made your bed, now you have to sleep in it."

And this is what I wrote in reply - but now I've added to it in bits and pieces - because I realized what a strange place i'm in just now - and I truly do need help and advice!

There is so much of what you have written that I truly relate to.  I can also relate to the somewhat self-punishing, "I find myself in sort of the family relations version of "you made your bed, now you have to sleep in it." -- yep... .that's sort of how I feel now really.

But not really. (not minimizing the OP - just in that I don't feel as if I created this situation for myself when he had changed so dramatically from Jekyll to Hyde - and the Jekyll/Hyde transformations have only increased in intensity over the years... .I don't feel it's fair to say that anyone "made their own bed" when their spouse originally seemed like their ideal partner for *years* and then suddenly changed... .)

In my case, my BPD-H has controlled finances for years (over 15) and also discouraged me from working outside the home, while creating his own emergencies that had me stuck in perpetual catch-22 situations.  I was constantly our family peace-keeper and rescuer - and this was especially when my BPD-H became emotionally and verbally abusive towards our kids (which was *far* more obvious if he was upset or agitated - so I felt as if I had a gun to my head all the time -- *"be good - or the kids will suffer - and it will be your fault!"*.

thanks to a DBT workshop, I've learned excellent mindfulness skills that help tremendously on avoiding conflict.  I don't get sucked into my BPD-H's arguments so much - and we *appear* to be getting along better, which is to say - that I'm very careful about not rocking the boat.

And I'm worried for my kids.

But it feels like a lie

I know it's a lie

and I hate feeling like I'm living a lie.

We *were* separated for well over a full year.  He did horrific things during that time to punish both me and the kids.

at some point, we started getting along - just slightly better.

He moved back home abruptly and when I was out of town.  Getting back together was something he had been pressuring me for - for nearly the entire time he was out of the house.

I had misgivings as soon as I got home.  I felt violated.  I felt invaded.

I kept it together though - but as soon as he became verbally abusive of our kids again - I asked for him to leave.  He sat in the middle of the floor, cross-legged and downcast, saying, "I can't".  I never knew what he meant by that really and I never figured it out.

I asked him to leave several times since then.  He refused.

Lately, what he has been telling our family therapist is that he can't (move out) due to financial reasons.  (forgive me for calling BS on that - especially since he seems - for all the world - to be sabotaging finances on purpose.  He certainly seems to have sabotaged himself at work such that he is making half of his pay).

I can't help but to feel anything other than a hostage in my own home - and it feels like a hostage situation where my children and I are all held hostage and when I bring that up - as I used to - he would explode in anger, minimize the situation, invalidate my feelings, generally make me feel like hell.

but here's the thing - I feel as if I end up gas-lighting myself and I feel as if our well-meaning local therapists contribute to that.  Our family therapist actually gave us - as a homework assignment - a list of what to do to increase intimacy.  I ended up feeling as if she was asking me to sleep with a terrorist.  I felt annoyed and more than a bit angry.

At other times, I end up throwing the mom-guilt at myself about how well our children would fare through a divorce.  My 10-year-old is a special needs kids and it seems as if my youngest kid has issues too.

At other times, I try to convince myself to buck up and to just work on my own communication skills.  And that works for improving communication between my BPD-H and I -- but it doesn't mean he won't still invalidate the kids, blame them for his mood-swings or say horrific things to them.  But the thing is - I know however bad it seems now - it was *way*, **way** worse when he was moved out - with his neglecting the kids' needs to the point where he was bloody dangerous.

He threatened suicide - a lot.  He even tried at least in a passive way and almost died a couple times that could have been related to all the ways he was trying to do himself in.  I saved him.  Every time.  My therapist suggests that I stop saving him.  But I can't allow my children's father to die - not with my standing over him and knowing I could have done *something*.

He used to go into a "despair spiral" where he would threaten either suicide or he would threaten to quit work - which would leave our kids without any financial support or medical insurance and with me out of the work force for so long - I didn't have much confidence in my being able to make up the shortfall in enough time.

He recently and mysteriously stopped doing the "despair spiral" stuff - but now he acts for all the world as if he just gets me as his consolation prize and I have some *seriously* mixed feelings about that - and I have to admit feeling very resentful towards our family therapist and also other local resources that seem to be pressuring me to make nice with this guy who not only nearly destroyed my life, but has a long and painful history of hurting our children.

At times - he seems like he's back to his old self - the man I married.  At other times, he is playing mind-games, saying stuff that feels obviously manipulative, claiming he said things that he didn't say or claiming that reality is different than it is.

My practicing my DBT skills has helped me massively on no longer taking the bait on arguing.  But that doesn't mean I want to prostitute myself for the sake of my children having two parents still-married.

Also - I fully recognize that I'm burying and denying my own needs in all of this... .walking on eggshells perpetually, being our in-home therapist and problem solver - the family peace-keeper.

Lately, my BPD-H comes home and his entrance is that he says, "hi?" - and then "hello?" - and while that sounds innocent enough - he does this in such a way where he expects me to drop everything and tend to his emotional needs.  Other times, he walks in and does the needy-hello thing and then starts in on me on, "what's wrong?" and "I can *tell* something is wrong?"... .and I don't know what to say. The simple answer to that would be, "well - nothing was wrong 'till you came home and started trying to poke at me... .well, except for you keeping me hostage here and preventing me any financial resources to attain any sort of independence or agency - except that little old thing - then, no - nothing is wrong".

I know what you mean too on feeling like you're posting in the wrong section - I posted originally in the section where I was trying to sort things out... .and that was because my husband had finally entered into a DBT program himself.  And since that's the gold standard for BPD - I felt unrealistically optimistic, like - "hey - maybe he can heal" - and maybe he can.  But that doesn't take away the 16 years I've had to live with him controlling my every action and all the invalidation and gas-lighting, blame-shifting, mind-games, lies, secrets and all the other ways he has hurt me and then later on, hurt me through the kids.

I'm tired of feeling like I'm just a negotiating chip used for negotiating our children's future.

I'm not a consolation prize for his getting into therapy.

I don't know what to do.

I feel beaten.  I feel "too old" and I feel helpless.

I don't like feeling like my only chance to have any sort of life is by living a lie and walking on eggshells.

I want my children's future to be better.  I desperately want their dad to related to them better - but should that be at the sacrifice of my own happiness and freedom?

We went to Triple-P parenting - during the sessions, my BPD-H acted for all the world as if we were together, when it felt like it was a lie, even then and he was there because he had been referred for rage issues.

Our family therapist suggested he go into rage counseling - he never did (other than the Triple-P and given how manipulative he was to me during all that - I quit mid-way through as I had already taken the course online in any case and I was getting tired of his groping me in public for the sake of making it seem as if we were a happily married couple when at home we never had any sort of affection - or only perfunctory shows of affection, either the goodbye thing or goodnight - but only a perfunctory kiss that is about as romantic as a kiss to my uncle)

But how could our family therapist refer him to rage and domestic violence counseling and then come back and give us a bloody assignment about building intimacy?  What the heck?

I have very few friends outside of home.  I've been isolated for ages.   Making friends is like an uphill battle really.  I sometimes feel like, "If I can't even make friends - then how the heck do I become financially independent enough to make the $6000 retainer the only lawyer available has asked for me to shell out?"

I feel helpless.  Yes - I know that DBT skills are all about taking personal responsibility for your own actions and your own communication.  And I am!  I definitely am!   But my BPD-H - keeps acting as if my not taking the bait for arguing means that I want to jump back into bed with him.  I'm not comfortable with that really - because of the way he hurt our kids and the way it feels like such a slap in the face - to myself really... .why do I want to sleep with someone who hurt me over 16 years?  The simple answer is that I don't really.  And I feel guilty that I don't want to - because I am under so much pressure to play-nice and pretend that we can somehow glue the bits and pieces back together.

Even Triple P Parenting folks seem to be pressuring us to stay together - and I don't understand why anyone who knows there has been anger-issues and a history of abuse would be okay with that.  *I'm* not okay with that!

Why are victims and survivors of abuse pressured to play-nice with those who have hurt them and hurt them over such a long, long period of time?

I know my husband has mental health disorders.  I do have compassion for him.  But that doesn't mean I feel like repeatedly sacrificing myself for the remainder of my life.

I don't know what I'm doing anymore.

I feel like playing-nice is robbing me of my self-esteem and my identity.

But I'm scared of our children being hurt through a horrible divorce - or worse, their father committing suicide or his lapsing back into the sort of absent, neglectful and abusive parent he was when we were separated.

I want to be free.

I just have no idea how to get there from where I am now.

We have no family locally.

The only social interaction I have anymore is via my support groups and therapy.  (I started going to DBT for PTSD, trauma, insomnia and anxiety-related stuff... .but not to blame my husband for *everything* - I know that when I used to take the bait in arguments that I could have managed things so much better - but I feel a *hell* of a lot calmer when he's *not* around!)

Where in the world do I even start?

I've recently been trying to resurrect a small jewelry making business - but I've made very *little* money from that - and it's not enough to really even get half-way there on affording the retainer for the lawyer and child-advocate that I know we *need*, much less for me to become financially stable and on my own two feet.

[Eleven011]

Please feel free mods to move all my posts to "I'm fed up and can't take it anymore" - or well... .I don't feel so much "conflicted" on my need to leave - as I feel "conflicted" on our children suffering or being made to suffer if I do leave and not having the financial resources to do so.

That's not to say that I don't see my part where I was definitely making things worse by pointlessly arguing or being drawn into conflicts.  I've completely given up on any need to be "right" at all!  I don't care about being "right" at all.  I've even come to terms with the fact that my BPD-H cannot confirm reality or validate my feelings or what actually happened.  I've become so much better at conflict resolution really and I don't engage in any pointless discussions that are not about what is important anymore.  My DBT intensive workshop has helped me a LOT in no longer being drawn into the BPD-spiral of confusion and pain.  But while I'm happy with my newfound communication skills and DBT coping skills - I don't feel like, "Oh - okay... .it's okay for me to sacrifice my own happiness or any of my own needs for financial agency or to have a life in any way whatsoever and it's okay for me to reconcile fully with someone who has hurt and abused both me and my children for many long and horrific years".  My body is not a consolation prize for my BPD-spouse finally entering into treatment - treatment that I don't even know if he will stick to, which I'm worried he may even have ulterior motives for even being in.  (e.g. his bargaining for me to stay if he stays in the program)

[Eleven011]

Hi

I feel I'm definite on my decision - and it didn't take me very long for me to realize that I was just plastering over the cracks and that I cannot in good faith keep pretending that I'm "okay" with reconciling with my BPD spouse when he has been consistently verbally abusive and hostile for a very long 16 years... .he is momentarily peaceful and finally entered into a DBT program at long last - but I know my heart isn't in it - and I don't want to discuss pros vs. cons or strategies to stay.  I just want to know how to protect my children and how to rebuild my life without my BPD-H going *kaboom* again or his using the children as pawns to hurt me or how to protect my children's future while also preserving my self-respect.

Thank you.

[once removed]

I feel beaten.  I feel "too old" and I feel helpless.

i hear you. you sound exhausted 

Where in the world do I even start?

have you consulted with a lawyer?

[Eleven011]

we had a lawyer and we went through the collaborative divorce process to a point... .this was when he was living separately from me. 

But he always had a hissy-fit after each and every divorce meeting.  and eventually I gave up trying.

Then I met with the lawyer separately - at which point, she said she needed $6000 for us to continue.  I don't have the $6000.  I've been trying to scrape together the money ever since while trying to protect my children from further emotional or psychological harm.

[Eleven011]

also - my lawyer said it wasn't a good idea to do a traditional divorce because he "recognizes that my husband is mentally ill" (his words) and he opined that divorces with someone "like this" never goes well for the other party or the kids... .so collaborative divorce seemed a safer bet - because we both get our own lawyer and "coach" (divorce therapist) - but more to the point, the kids are assigned their own child advocate - which we probably truly need - as my husband neglected the kids needs previously and said horrific things in front of them. 

But I don't have the financial independence to raise $600 just now, much less $6000.

ugh.

I know I won't always feel this hopeless or helpless.  I'm having a bad day and I obviously need to change directions or think again of what I need to do next.  I just feel stuck just now.

[Eleven011]

(correction - so the divorce *coach* -- is the one who said that both her and the child advocate would need $6000 to continue... .this is separate from what the lawyer who is attached to the case said - but since it's a collaborative process - the divorce coach + divorce lawyer - is my side of the team... .I know that got confusing with different pronouns and such.)

[Eleven011]

when my husband and I met together to start the collaborative process - it was with the divorce *coach* - who was trying to get my husband to accept that we were having a divorce.

erm - she was unsuccessful in convincing him of this reality.

And then later - there would be the back-lash.  Angry outbursts, threats of suicide, verbal abuse towards the kids... .

So I stopped going there with my husband - it seemed to be making things worse.

I still wanted out though.

[Eleven011]

Mostly I don't know how to start to get on my feet financially - or even to build a social network.  I've been isolated for a very long time.  I have acquaintances at best... .and the best support I have are from folks who want to believe my husband's fairy tale that we lived "happily ever after" after he recovered from cancer.  (I was his care-taker through all that too... .not that I'm resentful of that at all... .I'm only resentful of all the ways he hurt me and the kids)

[once removed]

it would be a good idea to explore your legal options on the Family Law board. my knowledge about it is minimal, my experience nonexistent, but i know there can be help, and options, and those members have a lot of experience.

lets focus here on the day to day circumstances and how we can reduce stress for you.

At other times, he is playing mind-games, saying stuff that feels obviously manipulative, claiming he said things that he didn't say or claiming that reality is different than it is.

can you give us some recent examples?

[itsmeSnap]

Hello eleven011

Sounds like you got a lot to process, we can listen.

I just want to know how to protect my children and how to rebuild my life

They will need you. They say in airplane safety that you put your own oxygen mask before you help the kids with theirs, you need to be safe and capable yourself in order to be able to help them.

I've recently been trying to resurrect a small jewelry making business

The resurrect part tells me you've done this before. Businesses can be hard but extremely rewarding, not to mention financially satisfying  , believe me I've managed one handed down by my dad and I'm expanding it on my own, it can make life a tad more hectic even in the best circumstances.

How are you doing on that front? I mean besides money, I see you mentioned it's still only a trickle, have you had this sort of business before?

[Eleven011]

Hello eleven011

Sounds like you got a lot to process, we can listen.

They will need you. They say in airplane safety that you put your own oxygen mask before you help the kids with theirs, you need to be safe and capable yourself in order to be able to help them.

The resurrect part tells me you've done this before. Businesses can be hard but extremely rewarding, not to mention financially satisfying  , believe me I've managed one handed down by my dad and I'm expanding it on my own, it can make life a tad more hectic even in the best circumstances.

How are you doing on that front? I mean besides money, I see you mentioned it's still only a trickle, have you had this sort of business before?

I've been making jewelry for decades and have sold it out of various shops to varying degrees of success.  I've also started painting, and while it's cathartic and many have said my paintings are good - I've yet to sell a painting.   To be fair - the area around here feels like it's heading towards another economic recession and there are a LOT of artists in the area.  I was encouraged to give it another go - because the folks here have been very kind and encouraging and helped me with advertising for several art shows, but there just isn't enough traffic for the shows to be worthwhile and I've not sold enough to even cover the rental office I've been working out of... .erm... .partly to have a "safe place" to escape my husband throwing things away or accidentally "losing" them.  (long story - but long, long history) - and also because we don't have an internet connection to speak of at home. 

I have a B.S. in Physics - but that was a LONG time ago (when I finished the degree) - I would be FAR better off going back into math and science (at least financially) - and I want to.  But I would need a masters to get teaching credentials.  I can substitute and have been working on doing so - but again, that won't pay the bills really.

And with my oldest daughter having special needs - and with my having multiple appointments for her and my younger kiddo and all the other obligations I'm juggling - I am a little worried about my ability to tend to my children's needs while holding down a traditional job.

I meet with our educational advisor before our IEP meeting and she knows my situation and seems sympathetic and has *some* suggestions to help.  I truly do appreciate her help - I know it's at least one small light in a storm.  I feel a little lost just now.

[Eleven011]

I've also been in a codependency support group facilitated by my therapist with whom I seem to have a very good working relationship with.  She is the one who suggested I take a DBT workshop to help me with my nightmares, sleep issues and whatever other self-defeating behaviors I've had... .I have PTSD and a lot of anxiety to cope with that I seem to have hit my limit on coping well with. 

Not that everything is my husband's fault... .but whenever he is out of town - my stress levels go *way* down... .and the kids seem way calmer too... .it's really amazing - and depressing at the same time... .because then he comes back home and we're back to square one.

The DBT really has helped me a lot though. I've been sitting in my suffering too much today and probably feeling sorry for myself - which is probably not helpful.  I felt *stuck* which was *not* a winning strategy for getting *unstuck* - but I know the first thing I need to do is to exercise some self-compassion, non-judgmentally looking at things and then finding a new path forward somehow.

I know I feel frustrated at not knowing what concrete steps I can take really.

And how long it has been since I first saw that divorce lawyer and now - and how much I've wanted to be away from the toxic cycles and also the demands of reconciliation when I know my heart is not in it and I only want to protect my children.  It has literally been years when I've been talking with the lawyers off and on - they must think I'm not serious by now - but I really am!

[Eleven011]

can you give us some recent examples?

One horrific morning - he literally threw every defense mechanism I've ever experienced from him - including his saying some horrific thing he said to our older autistic kid was something that didn't happen when I thought it did (when I had it in my calendar - because he often tries to deny reality later) - then he said it happened before our previous counseling session (so *why* didn't I bring it up then - was the implication) - then it got worse from there... .I need to pick up kiddos... .so I'll add more later... .I've given up on even trying to correct him when he says that stuff either *didn't* happen or when he tries to change the time and place, etc. 

Later on, he told our autistic kid - to her face and with me there - that "maybe your mom and I will divorce and then you won't have a dad".  (I was so angry with him for hurting our kid again emotionally with his BS)

Another time, he was being verbally abusive towards our autistic kid and he was upstairs claiming that *he* was the victim of her... .He seems to blame her a LOT!  And yes, she has an adversarial relationship with her father - but goodness!  he has been invalidating her and making her feel bad for her entire life!  Argh!

yeah - that's a small sampling... .

I'm going to go look up my DBT coping mechanisms - because I'm not coping well.
erm... .that's Distress Tolerance - I know... .I gotta list around me somewhere.

[DharmaGate]

Oh man that is alot to deal with.  You are very wise to find the self soothing list, i use it often,  hope you found it and it brings some well deserved comfort. 

[Ozzie101]

I'm so, so sorry, Eleven011.  

I can certainly understand your frustration and discouragement, given all that's going on. It's a lot to handle, especially on your own.

I, too, have felt frustration from being told to be conciliatory to my abusive H. Feels almost like being told it's my fault. But as my therapist explained, it's not that. It's about keeping me safe in the moment -- trying to keep a tense situation from going nuclear. Trying to find ways to help H stay at baseline or return to it more quickly with minimal damage. Having that foundation of calm built up can make a difference on bad days. With the calm and fewer instances of abuse, it becomes easier to make rational decisions about the future (stay? go?). At least, that's how it was explained to me.

Now, not every therapist or support group approaches it that way. For some, keeping the family together is a primary goal. It depends on their approach and outlook.

You said your family therapist referred him to domestic violence counseling, but have you met with a DV counselor yourself? Those agencies can be extremely helpful. I'm seeing a DV counselor (for free) and my local agency provides help in making safety/exit plans, legal advice, advocacy, orders of protection, job searches, etc. Is that an avenue you've explored?

[once removed]

how is it going today Eleven011?

[Eleven011]

I guess I have trouble in seeing what the point is in playing nice with my abuser.

I’m not saying I’m perfect - but being with him makes me even worse off, always has. 

He had been horrible to our kids.  I never supported that and I’m tired of playing peacemaker.

Why perpetuate the trauma bond and cycle of abuse?

I don’t see many agencies pressuring abused men to stay with abusive women.  It feels so very sexist.

[Eleven011]

How it is going today:

Miserably

Feeling trapped, claustrophobic and suffocating

This nightmare and prison has already taken 16 years of my life

I don’t want any more

I was lied to a LOT at the beginning — the entire premise of the “relationship” was built on lies.  And now I don’t know how to get out because I have no financial power and the entire system seems skewed towards allowing men to keep women I. subservient and abusive positions of powerlessness

I speak my mind rarely, end up feeling guilty for doing so, sink into despair and then give up - thinking there is no hope for my escape and one where I can protect my kids without their being used as pawns or hurt directly as I saw when we were temporarily separated for a year

[Ozzie101]

The way I understand it, the point of "playing nice" is to try to keep a situation from escalating and going nuclear -- so to speak. It's intended to keep you safe. Believe me, I know that it can feel like a personal betrayal to do that. Many times, I've had to play nice with my H, who is verbally abusive, and a part of me resents that. It's something I struggle with as well. You've dealt with this for 16 years. That shows you have a lot of strength.

I know I asked this before, but have you spoken to a domestic violence counselor or agency? Those can offer many services (free or low-cost) to help women in difficult situations.

[itsmeSnap]

Hey eleven011

How it is going today:

Miserably

Feeling trapped, claustrophobic and suffocating

This nightmare and prison has already taken 16 years of my life

I don’t want any more

Sometimes taking a time out such as posting on these boards or even going for a walk for a couple of minutes can help process our thoughts and find solid ground again when someone rocks our boat a bit too much.

I speak my mind rarely, end up feeling guilty for doing so

I know the feeling.

the entire system seems skewed towards allowing men to keep women I. subservient and abusive positions of powerlessness

How are you feeling about talking about your situation here on the boards? I know its an odd question to ask. hearing about how previous interactions with "the system" have not been particularly positive for you, I'm curious (the boards kinda are "a system" so to speak)

 

[whirlpoollife]

Eleven011, you are so beaten down I can see it in your posts.
I was going to say the same thing as Ozzie said. Look into a Women's Crisis Shelter .  I know my local one ( another state) offers shelter, counseling on how to leave an abusive marriage, legal avenues.
It took me many times driving by, driving in the parking lot to eventually going in . Because I always thought it was just for young women who were physically beaten .   It's not,  it's also for people like us.  I also had a therapist , for a few months prior to the counseling from the shelter, whom actually did a lot more damage mentally to me than help. 
I'm not sure if this charity is still in existence as I am thinking of it prior to checking ... .called The Purple Purse.  It's monetary help for women needing to leave an abusive marriage but not having any financial means to do so.
When it's safe to do so, keep posting, keep reading here. It can be the hole in the fence from the isolation.
Keep in mind that you don't feel the need to tell your h of it.

[Eleven011]

I really and truly appreciate your reply here and truly - I need to seek out more help because just now, I feel rather stuck and powerless and that’s a very frustrating position to feel trapped in.  

I was worried about the shelter because of my special needs kid and if she would end up way-worse off — and there were many hints I’ve had from other therapists and doctors where I’m getting feedback that I ought not to consider that route.  So I end up getting scared off of doing that because I don’t want to make things worse for my kids and I end up imagining all the worse case scenarios of my kids being taken away from me or my autistic daughter being taken away from a school system that seems to be finally working for her now (after adjusting the IEP).  I’m scared of losing the medical insurance and a host of other factors.  I’m also painfully aware of how my husband plays the ultra-meek and devoted husband in public and how no one would likely believe what my reality has been like.

Another factor is that when my husband goes off the rails and does something like threatens suicide — our autistic daughter *also* does the same and my autistic daughter mirroring her dad so much is also what makes this feel like such a difficult situation just now.  

I have three other agencies and/or doctors that seem to be almost or outright participating in my husband gaslighting me and trying to “help” us stay together — which makes my head want to explode.  Am I supposed to do this “for the kids”?   I don’t understand!  

It would take a long time for me to enumerate each one and each example — but these include my daughters psychiatrist, our family therapist who sees my estranged husband and I together and seems perennially confused about whether we ought to just sort things out, the local “positive parenting” group that just wouldn’t listen to me when I was insisting on co-parenting strategies and not forcing me into some reconciliation program — and this on top of other pressures from friends and family.  

I feel emotionally exhausted and I also feel as if I live in two alternative realities — one is where my codependency group, my personal therapist and our educational advocate seem to know what’s up and are supportive of my leaving a toxic and manipulative relationship... .And on the other side — all the rest!  Plus all the gaslighting and mom-guilt that I ought to just glue Humpty Dumpty back together again “for the kids”.

We don’t have sex.  The relationship feels like it’s all appearances.  My estranged husband and I feel as if we have reached a point of stability where we can appreciate a long history and a common friendship and also what’s good for our kids (when he’s not having a rage episode or an emotional meltdown) — but as soon as he’s not getting his way -  and as soon as I get stronger to try to leave — he’s back to treating me and the kids like we are desposible garbage.  I can take it — but I can’t handle seeing my kids hurt anymore.  So I end up walking on eggshells like crazy to maintain the peace.

It’s hard to even make plans for escape when my choices are so freakishly extreme — go to a women’s shelter or have the financial support and medical support that my kids need.  I wish there was a freaking middle ground!  

At the same time — while I can forgive my estranged husband of a LOT for the sake of our old friendship and for the sake of co-parenting and for the sake of history and common ground that we do share — I do feel strongly that my forcing myself to reconcile with him would be tantamount to my saying it was “okay” to hold me and the kids hostage and “okay” for all the emotional, verbal and financial abuse and “okay” for him to prevent me from going back to school or prevent me from working and “okay” for him to create all sorts of emergencies that just didn’t have to be a problem that made our lives so much worse!  

I can forgive a LOT — but I don’t feel it’s fair for others to just demand that I reconcile for the sake of the children — just because “we seem to be getting along better”... .erm... .my being civil doesn’t mean I want to prostitute my freedom.

Even though our “relationship” is not very intimate at all in private — in public and especially in front of certain people — my estranged husband will be all over me and act as if we are sexually active and romantic and all that — when at home that just never happens and at this point — I don’t even want it to because I feel like it would make my self esteem take a nose dive.  He can keep me here with financial coercion and pretend to counselors or to teachers at school as if we are all 100% fine and romantic and all that — but that doesn’t mean I’m okay with sleeping with anyone who I asked to move out or asked to live separately from and who told me point blank, “no” and then messed up finances so badly that I can’t afforf the retainer for a lawyer... .seriously?  

People keep laying on a guilt trip for me where they insist he is “getting better” and yeah - I can clearly see how he’s “getting better” — but given what he has put me through — I’ve been hurt by him too many times to really rebuild that trust with him and he has not done one single thing to undo the real damage he has done financially or in other ways.  He’s going to counseling and is in a DBT program finally and occasionally he will sort bills enough so we stay one step shy of disaster and bankruptcy — but if he really wanted to earn my trust — he would have stopped trying to hold me prisoner and stop using me as free childcare while he pursues his career and maintains this cis-sham-marriage hell that is only of appearances like we are stuck permanently in the set of “Leave It To Beaver” — unless I get stronger to escape — in which case, it turns into The Shining or an Alfred Hitchcock film.  Or I guess - the obvious one — the movie, “Gaslight”.

So damn frustrated!  

No idea what my next pragmatic steps ought to be

And sure - he’s making progress.  I’m making progress too — on no longer being codependent and using my own DBT skills for PTSD and anxiety.  But I feel as if all the DBT in the world is still going to leave him as a selfish, heartless ass who abandoned our kids when we first separated and then moved back and wouldn’t leave — keeping me hostage against my will and using the kids as pawns in all this.  He treats me like a possession and throws a tantrum like a child if there is any threat of his not being able to hold onto me as a thing he owns.  He seems to have a split personality where he will revert to this kind and tender person who will act like he does love and care for me or times when it’s almost as if I had my old friend back and then he ends up turning around and treating our kids like an inconvenience or becomes super-controlling.  He’s also only tender or “loving” towards me when I’m sick or completely broken down to pieces - often when he is the one who broke me down to the point where I gave up on myself or became paralyzed out of fear or a sense of hopelessness.  If I’m stronger or in any way assertive at all - no matter how politely — he either acts coldly or seems to see that as a threat or “something wrong”. 

I feel like it’s a constant mind f*$#

And even supposing that his taking his own DBT completely “cures” him of all a$$H*** tendencies and the worse of how controlling, manipulative and abusive behaviors — I don’t feel it’s fair for others to pressure me to stay with him.  I just don’t get that.  Sure - if it’s possibe for him to function better in the world and be less miserable — that’s great for him!  Horray for my hostage-taker for him feeling better about himself.  How nice for him!  Can I go now please?  Or has my role of dutiful wife not yet been completely fulfilled yet?  (I hope dark humor is allowed and especially from me — I’m tired of not feeling heard - obviously!)

[Eleven011]

Eleven011, you are so beaten down I can see it in your posts.
I was going to say the same thing as Ozzie said. Look into a Women's Crisis Shelter .  I know my local one ( another state) offers shelter, counseling on how to leave an abusive marriage, legal avenues.
It took me many times driving by, driving in the parking lot to eventually going in . Because I always thought it was just for young women who were physically beaten .   It's not,  it's also for people like us.  I also had a therapist , for a few months prior to the counseling from the shelter, whom actually did a lot more damage mentally to me than help. 
I'm not sure if this charity is still in existence as I am thinking of it prior to checking ... .called The Purple Purse.  It's monetary help for women needing to leave an abusive marriage but not having any financial means to do so.
When it's safe to do so, keep posting, keep reading here. It can be the hole in the fence from the isolation.
Keep in mind that you don't feel the need to tell your h of it.

Sorry - I meant to just write a reply and just everything came tumbling out at once in a long rant because I’ve been bottling things up for so long

My husband makes a very high income — but he messed up finances so badly that we are at risk of bankruptcy now.  I don’t know if that means I’m not qualified for charity or not.  My daughter was just denied state services based on my husband’s income - so I don’t know.  I’ll check out the purple purse though and see what *can* be done instead of focusing on what can’t be done.

Thanks - seriously thanks! 

[Cat Familiar]

Hi Eleven011,
Wow! There’s a lot of water under that bridge. A lot of bad history and unkindness.

You sound pretty clear about your feelings about your husband. I would guess if you won the lottery tomorrow, you’d waste little time packing up and leaving with your children to a better life.

Since that isn’t possible in the meantime, you are exploring options and so far, things haven’t been too promising.

I’m sorry people have been trying to foist a reconciliation upon you and I can understand why that feels hurtful as it ignores all the abuse you’ve previously experienced.

Considering that you are making plans to exit at some point in the future and currently you are living in the same house, can you continue to reside with him in a manner where you are emotionally divorced, separated, but still under the same roof?

I can understand why people have advised you to, as you say, “treat your abuser nicely” and how irritating that would be.

However, what if you looked at the situation from a strategic point of view? You want his insurance, you want your older daughter’s treatment to continue, you currently can’t afford to support your children on your own. Perhaps as you take steps to accomplish more self sufficiency, you can think of yourself as “being in deep cover” much like a spy in enemy territory.

It’s in your best interests to play along to some extent, but not compromise yourself, nor do anything that you are unwilling to do, so as you can make the situation sustainable long enough to set yourself up with better options for the future.

It’s a tough situation, no doubt about it, but being strategic and living well, you can make things better for yourself and your children.

Cat

[Eleven011]

Hi — I appreciate your advice and feedback.  I truly do!

The issue I have with just playing nice is that it allows my estranged partner to continue to portray a fantasy world to the outside world that we are together when we are not and this has had a negative effect on my self esteem and ability to also reach out to friends and family — because I would look crazy if I did so... .it would seem as if I was the one who had the problem of my husband is playing the part of “devoted husband” in IEP meetings for my autistic daughter or during therapy appointments — when in reality, we have a sexless relationship and we are in complete disagreement about how to raise our children and he continues to make aggregious parenting mistakes such that I have to come in and rescue things.

I’m the meantime, my daughters end up with more anxiety issues, my husband has switched my autistic daughter’a psychiatrist and made it seem as if all our problems are all her fault (scapegoating) while making it seem as if he’s the victim and today in therapy — he claimed that he rages at our autistic daughter because she “touches him inappropriately” — to which I responded that I’m all for healthy boundaries — but that you can establish healthy boundaries without freaking your kids out!  And also - the healthy boundaries are the parents’ responsibly to establish.  He did the same with other abuse too —calmed victimhood.

I see the real harm this is having on our children’s self esteem and quality of their lives and I don’t feel it’s a situation that I can just grin and suffer through for my daughters’ sake just because my husband has money.  My kids deserve better than this and frankly - so do I!

Also - I have been trying to follow this same advice for years and I can’t make any headway because I’m always having to come to my daughters rescue from another rage episode or I’m In way too much therapy as a result of trauma and also this relationship is crushing my sense of self esteem.  I also feel it’s jusy not healthy for my children to watch all this or be subjected to all this. 

[Cat Familiar]

The issue I have with just playing nice is that it allows my estranged partner to continue to portray a fantasy world to the outside world that we are together when we are not and this has had a negative effect on my self esteem and ability to also reach out to friends and family — because I would look crazy if I did so... .

What's to keep you from telling friends and family out front that you're currently living together due to financial constraints, but that you are separated? Said in a matter-of-fact way, I think people would understand.

And what keeps you from bringing up disagreements about child raising during therapy?

Also any competent therapist would likely be skeptical that your husband is a "victim" of your autistic daughter. Why not challenge that statement in the moment at your therapist's office?

I'm not telling you to "grin and bear it", what I'm saying is to be strategic and figure out how you can get your needs met currently while you shape an exit plan.

[Eleven011]

I agree with you on most points truly — but the oddball thing is that I’ve been following that advice sincerely and for years and with my husband continuing to deteriorate over time such that everyday feels like an emergency crisis event.  I’m exhausted (emotionally and physically) — my kids are exhausted (also emotionally and physically) and I’m sure my husband is exhausted on all levels as well!  

The penny really dropped for me when I realized that both my kids and I were needing more and more and more therapy to cope with my husband being so off-the-rails.  That’s the point where I truly realized that just struggling through every day was doing a sincere disservice towards my children, as well as to myself

I have to admit that I do get defensive when people who have not been walking in my shoes all these years give me advice that amounts to “keep doing what you’re doing - it will work eventually!” - when that obviously does not work!  I need to change what I’m doing — but part of that change has to be my not enabling my husband to continue to use me and our children as pawns or outlets for his own frustrations or his inability to cope with his own mood swing.  

When you’re already peddling the bicycle faster and faster and then even faster and as fast as humanly possible and while juggling chain saws that are on fire — it can feel very overwhelming for someone to give me advice that I’m already following and have been following and isn’t working and seems to leave me feeling stuck and helpless and leaves my children in a worsening situation that is robbing them of the joy of their own childhood.  

And no — it’s not anyone else’s fault for giving me advice that I’ve already been following and doesn’t seem to work.  I honor  and respect everyone’s input — I truly do!  But I truly can’t peddle this bicycle faster and I’m dropping the chainsaws I’m juggling as it is and I feel I’m doing myself and my children a deep disservice for continuing to enable my husband to hurt us with whatever is hurting him

I don’t know how to respond to others who are giving me advice on what I’m already doing or have been doing for years - but isn’t working.  I don’t want to come off as cocky or defensive or angry or combative.  I feel none of those things.  I only feel sadness, frustration, empathy (for all of us who are touched by this), compassion and fear for how to cope and how to build a brighter future for my children when my husband’s condition seems to be deteriorating rapidly

I feel at a loss for what to do — but that doesn’t make me helpless or completely lost (even if I feel that way at times!).  I don’t mean that in a defensive way at all — just that I know that my falling into *more* codependent traps won’t help me to grow and move on beyond where I am and unfortunately my husband is deeply codependent such that he sets up situations where if I don’t handle the situation — he’s likely to allow things to hurt our family or our kids through his feeling frozen, or self-shamed or out-of-control with his own anger or rage episodes.  I don’t feel there is any amount of walking on eggshells that is going to make things better or give me options because my husband is also highly intelligent and when he is not being eaten alive by his own anxieties — he is highly manipulative in getting what he wants and maintaining a status quo through financial control and coercion.  

This has been a downward spiral for years - and I want out of this so I have space to breathe and our kids have space to grow and have some semblance of their childhood that isn’t thrown under the bus to whatever issues their dad has

[Cat Familiar]

I have to admit that I do get defensive when people who have not been walking in my shoes all these years give me advice that amounts to “keep doing what you’re doing - it will work eventually!” - when that obviously does not work!  I need to change what I’m doing — but part of that change has to be my not enabling my husband to continue to use me and our children as pawns or outlets for his own frustrations or his inability to cope with his own mood swing.

Not sure if you're directing this comment toward what I wrote. And as I read it back, nowhere does it say to keep doing what you've been doing. You've mentioned that you currently don't have the financial resources that would allow you to establish a home for yourself and your children away from your husband.

What I'm suggesting is to start creating an action plan to give yourself more choices. And if you must live under the same roof with your husband while you're doing that, it doesn't make sense to create more conflict, does it? Why not minimize your and your children's stress in the meantime?

Many of us have been in miserable, seemingly impossible relationships where we've seen no exit. I got out of a marriage with an extremely abusive man, so I understand how difficult living in a situation like that can be.

As far as your husband choosing to use you or your children as "pawns or outlets for his own frustrations or inability to cope with his own mood swings", perhaps you can fill us in on more details of what you mean by that.

When you’re already peddling the bicycle faster and faster and then even faster and as fast as humanly possible and while juggling chain saws that are on fire — it can feel very overwhelming for someone to give me advice that I’m already following and have been following and isn’t working and seems to leave me feeling stuck and helpless and leaves my children in a worsening situation that is robbing them of the joy of their own childhood.

Of course you're doing everything you can possibly do and no one expects you to do more.

As you've already mentioned, what you're doing isn't working. So perhaps you can tell us specifically just exactly what's not working so that we can figure out alternative strategies.

I'm certainly not suggesting that you become more codependent. I'm looking back at my previous post and I suggested telling your friends and family that you're separated, but living together for financial reasons. I asked why you don't bring up differences in child rearing during your therapy sessions. I also thought that challenging your husband's idea that he is a "victim" of your daughter would be helpful during therapy. None of these suggestions would lead to more codependency.

... .unfortunately my husband is deeply codependent such that he sets up situations where if I don’t handle the situation — he’s likely to allow things to hurt our family or our kids through his feeling frozen, or self-shamed or out-of-control with his own anger or rage episodes.  

Perhaps you can elaborate on this. What sort of situations does he set up that could hurt your family?

[whirlpoollife]

You've said the finances are messed up but... .are you able to start squirreling away any cash? And keep it very well hidden?

[Cat Familiar]

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