BPD resentment

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I don’t want to go into to much personal detail but I’m not quite middle age yet and I realize what my life will probably be if I stay with my BPDw. Just being on this board and seeing others stories also worries me. I sort of would like to participate more here and actively, yet at the same time I really hate focusing on the negative. I can overly think things and when I hear similar stories it actually hits home hard and causes me to think perhaps overthink and focus on the negative as I’ve been through much. I have to contemplate are learning better communication skills and coping mechanisms the route I want to take it is this something I’m not willing to tolerate anymore at all. I feel like no matter what I’m sort of screwed, if I show any emotion or weakness, My wife uses it against me and digs it in as deep as she can.

Idk I feel as if my wife punishes me for her own mistakes and she makes a lot of them. I feel using communication tools are good as a temporary means to descalate the most intense portions of dysregulation. I try to use SET-UP (Support/validation Empathy Truth Understanding Preserverance) I’m not perfect after all I am human and sometimes emotions get the better of me too. It seems my emotions are getting a lot of me lately. I’ve been under intense attack for some time now I feel super stressed, and confused.  It seems though my wife carries a deep resentment for me though. I’m effective at deescelating the worst, but the resentment really keeps things from improving. I’m not really sure what this resentment is from and I’m forced to guess.

My wife says that the latest round of withdrawal/resentment is due to her credit card issues. Yet somehow I’m being punished for this, it’s really confusing. Even though you sort of understand the behavior and are not surprised, knowing the textbook theory and actually living it are so different. It’s easy to read writings and be like yup, but then when it hits home for real it’s like dang. My wife says she doesn’t want me to bail her out of her credit problem and I haven’t, sometimes I wonder if the resentment is coming from that. I’ve basically left her to deal with the mistake on her own I’ve busted my butt(working insane OT) paying off all our credit card debt before so really not interested in doing it again.

I feel there’s more to her resenting me than that though because she’s actually slipped well arguing mentioning one of my exes. So the story is really ironic here, years before I met my wife I dated this other woman and one of her family members ended up marrying this woman. Now this woman is divorcing that family member due to that family member cheating, abusing, not being responsible, etc. So in an argument my wife brings up what she calls recycling and says that I could go be with this woman. So to an extent I kind of find all of this stuff weird. Perhaps I’m seeing things that aren’t or maybe are. It really makes me wonder though because this seems something that BPDs are notorious for  recycling through past relationships. Could her resentment and fears actually not be founded in this Credit issue and be within in herself and her feeling insecure now that this woman is maybe “available” in her eyes. Make no mistake in no way would I want to be involved in something like that for various reasons. It’s something I consider off limits anyways now based on current relationships. I would’ve reconciled the relationship before I met my wife if I was interested. I’ve never recycled through relationships when I’m done I’m done, with the exception of prolonged breakups but never have I went to seek out an ex for anything. I’ve had past relationships seek me out however, which also makes me curious to how many PD relationships have I actually unknowingly been involved in. In hindsight I bet more than I can imagine.

So anyways I’m wondering were all this resentment is coming from within my wife. Is it that she’s mad at me for dating someone in the past that had become connected to her family and now is divorcing the family member? Is it that she’s insecure and thinking that I might “recycle”? Is it the credit card thing? Is it all of the above.

My wife’s actually made some interesting comments lately about why I’d want to be with her calling herself all kinds of names in the process. “Two faced, B$&$&, Narcissist, Liar, etc.”  and threatens divorce a lot. More so than usual.  I need help figuring out why, I feel like she says this and yet knowingly if I did let her walk she’d regret it. Yet at the same time I also feel pretty used so tempted to let her walk. I know if I let her walk I’m going to be exposed to a seriously hurtful break up and my wife will stop at nothing to create the biggest wounds as possible. My wife has been pretty cruel lately too using manipulation tactics sexually, some of you already know. Withholding sex, instigating sex then purposely shutting it down. I also wonder if this has to do with her being controlling and knowing she can use sex as a control mechanism  or is she feeling insecure about the woman that I previously dated. She also has been pushing every single limit or boundary that I have. Basically when it comes to my wife’s dress I let her do whatever wear whatever all I ask is it doesn’t do one of two things. One show her butt for example those shorts that are cut so high the bottom portion of a girls rear shows, two wear something that will be impossible not to expose her underwear to the world. She’s definitely pushing those limits which I find such attire inappropriate in the first place, 2nd even more so for a married woman. By the way no she did not dress like this in the beginning of our relationship. Talking about how other man want her. I suppose she does get a lot of attention the way she dresses lately. Wanting to go out drinking and out to strip clubs. She’s basically found everything and anything that can get to me and trying to dig it in as deep as possible and as hard as possible and not letting up even if I ignore the situation. Of course if I say anything it’s being controlling.

I’m kind of stuck right now because my wife is accusing me of being controlling which is a no win situation. I feel like I need to stand off because anything I say about these scenarios are going to be proof of me being controlling. Example look as he’s telling me how to dress, see he’s telling me I can’t go out with friends and where I can and can’t go. I know it’s an adult thing to let other adults make their own decisions. At the same time her behavior is ridiculous and is child like and someone needs to step in. Most likely her behavior has cost her a job, not only has her dress pushed my limits but has pushed the limits of her employer. I’ve briefly touched this on another post, she went from being considered to a promotion to terminated following her change in attire. So whatever I did she needs to spite me at all costs.

I know some of you will recognize my other post, this behavior has all been in effect before I even contemplated what I embarrassingly say I was caught up in. In fact a lot of this behavior is what has pushed me to long for something more.

I further want to touch on the recycling thing which I find interesting. Prior to meeting my wife she was hanging out with a group of friends which included a years ago ex. I didn’t think much of it. I actually have a circle of friends that does contain one of my exes and I’d run into her time to time but it was over and nothing was there so to me it seemed irrelevant assuming my state of mind about my exes. When I came into the picture this ex that was supposed to be a multi year ex seemingly became very jealous and emotional. I always thought to myself What the heck is wrong with this guy you’ve been an ex  for 5 plus years get over it. This guy did seem to disappear as our relationship progressed as did the whole group of friends except her closest who was female so not much thought about it from me.

So needless to say a few years into our relationship after we’re married and have a child together something really sets of my suspicion. I had found a men’s undergarment that was not mine in our laundry. We were apartment living so of course the story goes well it probably came out of the laundry room, could’ve really wouldn’t have been the first time we came up with laundry that wasn’t ours and wouldn’t be the last. But given my past and curiousity I decide I’d go for the extra peace of mind and check her phone logs here is this Ex that had sent dozens and dozens if not hundreds of txts daily back and forth with my wife while I was at work. So I look into it further and actually read the txts didn’t even get to read them all there was so many. But the  most recent I got to read were this guys is still being super needy and clingy so my thoughts are what the heck is my wife doing to this guy and how did it get to the point where we are years into a relationship and this guy is still in the picture fighting his emotions over my wife? I guess a lot of it makes more sense in hindsight.

Sorry if I push any buttons amongst members here but I’m in a state of confusion and hurt myself. Sometimes ironically I think I’m going crazy, again seems sometimes normal people  in PD can experience this time to time. Just so you guys know if I seem scatter brained and emotionally swinging back and forth I probably am.

[Ltahoe]

I don’t want to go into to much personal detail but I’m not quite middle age yet and I realize what my life will probably be if I stay with my BPDw. Just being on this board and seeing others stories also worries me. I sort of would like to participate more here and actively, yet at the same time I really hate focusing on the negative. I can overly think things and when I hear similar stories it actually hits home hard and causes me to think perhaps overthink and focus on the negative as I’ve been through much. I have to contemplate are learning better communication skills and coping mechanisms the route I want to take it is this something I’m not willing to tolerate anymore at all. I feel like no matter what I’m sort of screwed, if I show any emotion or weakness, My wife uses it against me and digs it in as deep as she can.

Idk I feel as if my wife punishes me for her own mistakes and she makes a lot of them. I feel using communication tools are good as a temporary means to descalate the most intense portions of dysregulation. I try to use SET-UP (Support/validation Empathy Truth Understanding Preserverance) I’m not perfect after all I am human and sometimes emotions get the better of me too. It seems my emotions are getting a lot of me lately. I’ve been under intense attack for some time now I feel super stressed, and confused.  It seems though my wife carries a deep resentment for me though. I’m effective at deescelating the worst, but the resentment really keeps things from improving. I’m not really sure what this resentment is from and I’m forced to guess.

My wife says that the latest round of withdrawal/resentment is due to her credit card issues. Yet somehow I’m being punished for this, it’s really confusing. Even though you sort of understand the behavior and are not surprised, knowing the textbook theory and actually living it are so different. It’s easy to read writings and be like yup, but then when it hits home for real it’s like dang. My wife says she doesn’t want me to bail her out of her credit problem and I haven’t, sometimes I wonder if the resentment is coming from that. I’ve basically left her to deal with the mistake on her own I’ve busted my butt(working insane OT) paying off all our credit card debt before so really not interested in doing it again.

I feel there’s more to her resenting me than that though because she’s actually slipped well arguing mentioning one of my exes. So the story is really ironic here, years before I met my wife I dated this other woman and one of her family members ended up marrying this woman. Now this woman is divorcing that family member due to that family member cheating, abusing, not being responsible, etc. So in an argument my wife brings up what she calls recycling and says that I could go be with this woman. So to an extent I kind of find all of this stuff weird. Perhaps I’m seeing things that aren’t or maybe are. It really makes me wonder though because this seems something that BPDs are notorious for  recycling through past relationships. Could her resentment and fears actually not be founded in this Credit issue and be within in herself and her feeling insecure now that this woman is maybe “available” in her eyes. Make no mistake in no way would I want to be involved in something like that for various reasons. It’s something I consider off limits anyways now based on current relationships. I would’ve reconciled the relationship before I met my wife if I was interested. I’ve never recycled through relationships when I’m done I’m done, with the exception of prolonged breakups but never have I went to seek out an ex for anything. I’ve had past relationships seek me out however, which also makes me curious to how many PD relationships have I actually unknowingly been involved in. In hindsight I bet more than I can imagine.

So anyways I’m wondering were all this resentment is coming from within my wife. Is it that she’s mad at me for dating someone in the past that had become connected to her family and now is divorcing the family member? Is it that she’s insecure and thinking that I might “recycle”? Is it the credit card thing? Is it all of the above.

My wife’s actually made some interesting comments lately about why I’d want to be with her calling herself all kinds of names in the process. “Two faced, B$&$&, Narcissist, Liar, etc.”  and threatens divorce a lot. More so than usual.  I need help figuring out why, I feel like she says this and yet knowingly if I did let her walk she’d regret it. Yet at the same time I also feel pretty used so tempted to let her walk. I know if I let her walk I’m going to be exposed to a seriously hurtful break up and my wife will stop at nothing to create the biggest wounds as possible. My wife has been pretty cruel lately too using manipulation tactics sexually, some of you already know. Withholding sex, instigating sex then purposely shutting it down. I also wonder if this has to do with her being controlling and knowing she can use sex as a control mechanism  or is she feeling insecure about the woman that I previously dated. She also has been pushing every single limit or boundary that I have. Basically when it comes to my wife’s dress I let her do whatever wear whatever all I ask is it doesn’t do one of two things. One show her butt for example those shorts that are cut so high the bottom portion of a girls rear shows, two wear something that will be impossible not to expose her underwear to the world. She’s definitely pushing those limits which I find such attire inappropriate in the first place, 2nd even more so for a married woman. By the way no she did not dress like this in the beginning of our relationship. Talking about how other man want her. I suppose she does get a lot of attention the way she dresses lately. Wanting to go out drinking and out to strip clubs. She’s basically found everything and anything that can get to me and trying to dig it in as deep as possible and as hard as possible and not letting up even if I ignore the situation. Of course if I say anything it’s being controlling.

I’m kind of stuck right now because my wife is accusing me of being controlling which is a no win situation. I feel like I need to stand off because anything I say about these scenarios are going to be proof of me being controlling. Example look as he’s telling me how to dress, see he’s telling me I can’t go out with friends and where I can and can’t go. I know it’s an adult thing to let other adults make their own decisions. At the same time her behavior is ridiculous and is child like and someone needs to step in. Most likely her behavior has cost her a job, not only has her dress pushed my limits but has pushed the limits of her employer. I’ve briefly touched this on another post, she went from being considered to a promotion to terminated following her change in attire. So whatever I did she needs to spite me at all costs.

I know some of you will recognize my other post, this behavior has all been in effect before I even contemplated what I embarrassingly say I was caught up in. In fact a lot of this behavior is what has pushed me to long for something more.

I further want to touch on the recycling thing which I find interesting. Prior to meeting my wife she was hanging out with a group of friends which included a years ago ex. I didn’t think much of it. I actually have a circle of friends that does contain one of my exes and I’d run into her time to time but it was over and nothing was there so to me it seemed irrelevant assuming my state of mind about my exes. When I came into the picture this ex that was supposed to be a multi year ex seemingly became very jealous and emotional. I always thought to myself What the heck is wrong with this guy you’ve been an ex  for 5 plus years get over it. This guy did seem to disappear as our relationship progressed as did the whole group of friends except her closest who was female so not much thought about it from me.

So needless to say a few years into our relationship after we’re married and have a child together something really sets of my suspicion. I had found a men’s undergarment that was not mine in our laundry. We were apartment living so of course the story goes well it probably came out of the laundry room, could’ve really wouldn’t have been the first time we came up with laundry that wasn’t ours and wouldn’t be the last. But given my past and curiousity I decide I’d go for the extra peace of mind and check her phone logs here is this Ex that had sent dozens and dozens if not hundreds of txts daily back and forth with my wife while I was at work. So I look into it further and actually read the txts didn’t even get to read them all there was so many. But the  most recent I got to read were this guys is still being super needy and clingy so my thoughts are what the heck is my wife doing to this guy and how did it get to the point where we are years into a relationship and this guy is still in the picture fighting his emotions over my wife? I guess a lot of it makes more sense in hindsight.

Sorry if I push any buttons amongst members here but I’m in a state of confusion and hurt myself. Sometimes ironically I think I’m going crazy, again seems sometimes normal people  in PD can experience this time to time. Just so you guys know if I seem scatter brained and emotionally swinging back and forth I probably am.

[once removed]

I feel using communication tools are good as a temporary means to descalate the most intense portions of dysregulation.

the tools are really more of a lifestyle, like fire prevention as opposed to putting out each fire, in order to build a validating and loving environment in the relationship.

I know some of you will recognize my other post, this behavior has all been in effect before I even contemplated what I embarrassingly say I was caught up in. In fact a lot of this behavior is what has pushed me to long for something more.
... .
My wife’s actually made some interesting comments lately about why I’d want to be with her calling herself all kinds of names in the process.
... .
By the way no she did not dress like this in the beginning of our relationship. Talking about how other man want her. I suppose she does get a lot of attention the way she dresses lately.

you can continue to see her behavior as driving you to consider an affair. she probably feels similarly in terms of the attention shes getting for dressing provocatively.

or you can recognize that the problems lie much deeper, in the very foundation of your relationship, your attitude, how the two of you have come to view each other.

[Cat Familiar]

Like most of us, you got into your relationship without suspecting anything was wrong with your wife. And now that you recognize signs of a personality disorder and her recent age-inappropriate behavior, you're wondering what awaits you in years to come. Yes, there are a lot of stories of dysfunctional marriages here as well as some success stories too.

Bottom line: it's a challenge to remain in a marriage with a pwBPD, but with the use of the tools we teach here, some people can improve their relationships. Others realize that dealing with a pwBPD for the rest of their life is not what they want to do, and can make different choices in the future.

Going back to your situation, your wife has two obvious avenues of dysfunctional behavior: financial and sexual. And some of the emotional fallout from these problems she projects upon you.

She's gotten herself (and you) into financial hot water by overspending in the past and then you've bailed her out by working long hours. Now she's done it again.

Recently she's been dressing in an age-inappropriate and business-inappropriate way and seems to be enjoying her ability to use her sexuality to draw attention to herself. She behaves in a seductive way to you, but then stops the action, leaving you frustrated.

Yet, she calls you "controlling" but it appears that is a projection and she is the one who is controlling.

PwBPD frequently feel shame and self-loathing and one of the ways they deal with these uncomfortable emotions is to project those feelings on the people closest to them--you.

They put their best image forward at the beginning of the relationship, but after you've learned their secrets (financial irresponsibility, dysfunctional sexuality--and undoubtedly there's some historical basis for that behavior), then they have no need to be their best anymore to impress you. The dynamic changes and then, you can become the recipient of their projections.

As OR said, the tools are a lifestyle, not just a method of defusing crisis. As such, they don't fix deep structural issues in the relationship, but they can help to create positive feelings again, so that love and trust can once again return.

[Ltahoe]

Ok good to know. Here’s some of my additional problems. So it’s probably obvious why I resent my wife to say that the resentment doesn’t swing both ways would be a lie. Of course the above is enough to feel hurt and resentful. So my thing is this I’m willing to admit why I resent her and openly discuss it. In fact the MC knows what I think and about certain circumstance. So if I’m to move on above and beyond certain issues the way I am I’d want to know the truth behind some matters and feel like if my wife can’t be open and truthful about things how would I be able to heal from those things. And recreate the trust. 

Take the credit card for example so if there’s a problem with spending and it’s ongoing  my wife needs to let me know and be open about the issue and the truth would also allow the situation to be properly accessed so I know what to expect and how to handle it. I feel with out transparency with the issues how do you fix them. Yet at the same time the issue is so sensitive it can’t be addressed to her. This is what makes me nervous about MC the issues need to be addressed and resolved yet if I’m going in open and honest and present an issue, if my wife puts on the public persona there’s nothing I can really do. For example my wife will be reasonable during MC and say things are resolved but they’re not. I’ll go home to the issue being wide open and of course she’s not putting on the public persona at home.  I feel this is why a lot of MC refuse to counsel unless the patient is willing to do DBT as an initial step. Idk the long term effectiveness of MC but as of right now we both see this T  1on1 and as a couple. So I understand it will take time. I know one day my wife did come home and say she’s really embarrassed with how she’s acted so I guess in a way she’s seeing something.

I also feel that the MC did slip a little and my wife is reading into it a lot. She basically drew a line and on one end was the codependent and on the other was a Narcissist and she explained that in a relationship that both partners should be in the middle and that if one partner starts becoming off center too much we need to bring them back to the center. Of course the MC stated that often the men can become more Narc but as the behaviors were described I think my wife realized who’s at what end and what not. I think that’s where she comes at me and asks me why I would want to be with a Narc etc. so idk if she’s acting out cause she feels exposed or she’s scared of change.


Granted I feel MC will be a little beneficial as far as coaching to make sure I’m not invalidating etc. when discussing such issues. Also If she’s projecting on me and angry at me for her own projections how do you deal with that? Let’s take this card thing for example. So the spouse that spends money behind the other spouses back goes to great lengths to conceal it then gets caught up decides to punish the spouse that actually got taken advantage of. So not only do I feel deceived but now I’m getting threatened to be abandoned, and punished by the person that did it. How do you deal with stuff like that? Obviously calling her out on her behavior doesn’t work she won’t accept the reality of the situation. You know if a healthy person did that they would be like oh crap I’m so sorry I can fix things, I’ll do whatever to fix it. But with my wife it’s opposite it’s. Screw you, I’m leaving, go find someone new, you’re the A/hole. So what if they resent you for their projections? This is one of my biggest dilemmas I’m punished for not meeting her unknown need to the perfection, and I’m punished for her mistakes.

Do your partners ever see the reality of their mistakes and take responsibility? Or am I always going to be responsible for both our actions? Then we get to the controlling thing if she’s saying I’m controlling to me that means she’s not ready to be responsible. It’s as if she’s saying to me back off and don’t be aware of what I do, maybe it’s a projection of herself or both Idk if it’s something I should worry about.

[Enabler]

Control and responsibility go together like cheese and tomato, they’re just made for each other. You take control, you own the responsibility.

Control is good, it means you get to choose stuff you want, you get to choose stuff you don’t want as well, so, if you’re emotionally sensitive you get to choose stuff that makes you feel good, and ditch stuff that makes you feel bad.

Responsibility really only spells downside for an emotionally sensitive person, why? Because whatever choices you make, there’s typically a downside either to yourself, when things don’t go as planned and what was supposed to make you feel good actually makes you feel bad, or, it hurts someone else, then that stimulates guilt.

So, a pwBPD will typically try to shed responsibility whilst maintaining control. This applies to everything and anything. They do not even take responsibility for their emotions... .YOU make me feel sad, YOU made me get angry, YOU made me have an affair, YOU made me have chocolate sauce on my ice cream instead of strawberry.

So, we’re handed responsibility so naturally we take control, since either way we’re culpable in their eyes for the outcome we might as well ensure the greatest likelihood of that being successful right? Only they don’t want to relinquish control because now they feel controlled. It results in a tug of war over control and responsibility. You’re blamed for being controlling so you hand back control but she fails to accept responsibility... .so you expect control back or try and force responsibility on her. Push pull push pull push pull.

Now intermingled with this is SHAME and after reading. Couple of your posts I get the impression you don’t get how shame plays a role in her behaviours. Shame is like being naked in the middle of Times Square and everyone is laughing at you... .you want to curl up and die. Telling the truth and being honest requires the ability to tolerate guilt and shame. So, when you go to MC and are super honest, you lay yourself bare and you feel a tiny sense of the emotion of shame... ., multiply this by 10000000000000. And you might come close to how she feels. Focussing on your shame rather than getting anywhere close to her own shame is far far far more preferable. Does she for example ever lead with the first confession in your come clean sessions? I doubt it. Maybe hold back on leading and see how that goes.

Enabler

[once removed]

I think that’s where she comes at me and asks me why I would want to be with a Narc etc. so idk if she’s acting out cause she feels exposed or she’s scared of change.

i suspect that she is communicating that she feels insecure and wonders why you want to be with her - sees you as judgmental of her. you did say you see her as childlike and see it as your responsibility to step in and manage.

lets take the dressing provocatively and sexual withdrawal. theyre critical issues, right?

i dont think that your wife is projecting (hypocrisy is not the same thing as projection). most of the time we say that, its just a way of dismissing the valid (and possibly exaggerated) things our partners are saying.

criticizing her dress is controlling, and anyone who ever had a critical parent (statistically, she probably did) can tell you how it feels. you feel judged. you feel uncomfortable in your skin. you feel a strong sense of "youre not the boss of me! you cant tell me what to do!. and the human nature response to that is, not unlike any teenager, to rebel.

shes been pretty clear about why she does it. she likes the attention (people with BPD traits gravitate toward uber validation). without judgment, the fact that youve been considering an affair speaks to how she feels about your affections, or lack thereof. so youre both looking outside the marriage, another human nature response (in a deteriorating relationship).

emotional connection is critical when it comes to sex, probably even more so for women, generally speaking. i dont think that shes trying to hurt you with the seduction and shutting it down.

i think what is probably happening is that she appreciates the attention, but lacks the emotional connection and trust to follow through. that may be something shes not fully aware of or could articulate, but id bet a great deal of money on it. 

if it were me? id focus less on achieving sex and more on emotionally connecting. id compliment her, authentically, on a whole range of things. id tell her how sexy i think she is, and looks, yes (careful, while you may not want to encourage her to dress provocatively everywhere, i would think you would want to encourage it around you), but her personality, her brains, her actions, as well, and id do it all with zero expectation of anything in return. id romance her. id seduce her. id have fun with her and be a friend, too.

i say all of this to help, and because i think it sounds like your relationship is increasingly shutting down, and is at a pretty critical juncture. if you can repair/restore the emotional connection, a lot of the other problems will be easier to solve.

[AskingWhy]

One thing I know about a R/S with a pwBPD, that they have double standards.

They can rage, feel hurt, etc. but you don't have a right to those feelings.  Your saying you W is controlling is a projection of what she is feeling.  At this point, any suggestion you may have of help will be perceived as controlling.

I am sorry you have to go through this.

[Ltahoe]

One thing I know about a R/S with a pwBPD, that they have double standards.

They can rage, feel hurt, etc. but you don't have a right to those feelings.  Your saying you W is controlling is a projection of what she is feeling.  At this point, any suggestion you may have of help will be perceived as controlling.

This is golden. It’s exactly what it is. My wife will ask me a question or for input  and if my answer doesn’t match her predetermined wishes or enmesh with her thoughts I’m going to be considered controlling. 

I’m screwed, I’m pretty much not going to be allowed to give advice ever. Granted I shouldn’t feel too bad about it she’s proceeded to tell me how controlling her exes were in the past and now I see clearly why she’d say that or two maybe why they would’ve been.

[Ltahoe]

i suspect that she is communicating that she feels insecure and wonders why you want to be with her - sees you as judgmental of her. you did say you see her as childlike and see it as your responsibility to step in and manage.

lets take the dressing provocatively and sexual withdrawal. theyre critical issues, right?

i dont think that your wife is projecting (hypocrisy is not the same thing as projection). most of the time we say that, its just a way of dismissing the valid (and possibly exaggerated) things our partners are saying.

criticizing her dress is controlling, and anyone who ever had a critical parent (statistically, she probably did) can tell you how it feels. you feel judged. you feel uncomfortable in your skin. you feel a strong sense of "youre not the boss of me! you cant tell me what to do!. and the human nature response to that is, not unlike any teenager, to rebel.

shes been pretty clear about why she does it. she likes the attention (people with BPD traits gravitate toward uber validation). without judgment, the fact that youve been considering an affair speaks to how she feels about your affections, or lack thereof. so youre both looking outside the marriage, another human nature response (in a deteriorating relationship).

emotional connection is critical when it comes to sex, probably even more so for women, generally speaking. i dont think that shes trying to hurt you with the seduction and shutting it down.

i think what is probably happening is that she appreciates the attention, but lacks the emotional connection and trust to follow through. that may be something shes not fully aware of or could articulate, but id bet a great deal of money on it.  

if it were me? id focus less on achieving sex and more on emotionally connecting. id compliment her, authentically, on a whole range of things. id tell her how sexy i think she is, and looks, yes (careful, while you may not want to encourage her to dress provocatively everywhere, i would think you would want to encourage it around you), but her personality, her brains, her actions, as well, and id do it all with zero expectation of anything in return. id romance her. id seduce her. id have fun with her and be a friend, too.

i say all of this to help, and because i think it sounds like your relationship is increasingly shutting down, and is at a pretty critical juncture. if you can repair/restore the emotional connection, a lot of the other problems will be easier to solve.

I understand you say this to help. I understand maybe my thoughts of her being child like have made me judgemental. Yet at the same time later you say that it’s like a teenager to rebel.

Exactly why I see her as childliked it’s a teenager thing to do not an adult thing to do to rebel. Certainly my wife was mature enough during our dating stage to know better than to do this. I’ve actually asked her why she didn’t do this type of stuff or engage in any of this activity during our dating stage. Of course her answer IDK  

Idk I’m going to be a little facetious here nothing against you But I really am tempted to go buy some baggy Tommy jeans and sleeveless basketball jersey’s, walk around with my pants sagged, and a visor cocked to the side and wait for my wife to say something about how I’m dressing and ask why she’s so controlling.  She certainly won’t address the situation as nice as I did. That’s for sure, we already know the double standards that exist.  Or perhaps I should encourage her to dress like that and be like hey look you’re a trophy wife and since you’re on display don’t mind me I’m going to oogle all the other woman on display I’m sure you won’t mind that.

It’s ridiculous she’s going to teach my daughter to act like this. So when my daughter is a teenager wearing this type of stuff and all the men are staring and drooling I know my wife will be the first to say something in discomfort. I’ll have to explain to my daughter not to worry your clothes are 10 times as modest as your moms were. My wife has no issue calling girls dressed less revealing than her skanks. I hold my tongue but all I can think of saying is “oh ya have you seen yourself?” Trust me until the last few years I’ve never been with a woman that’s made me feel uncomfortable the way she dresses. She might as well not even put anything more on once she’s got her underwear on. In fact she probably has to be careful on which underwear she chooses as they might cover more than her outer clothes would if she doesn’t coordinate that(sad thing is that part isn’t sarcasm)

I mean in some more seriousness here I do feel like my wife feels insecure and that’s why the comments why would you be with someone like me. I’ve also talked to MC how I feel about how it’s become more like a father rebellious teenager relationship. And I do need to learn to put certain things in the past so I can be less judgmental and critical. It’s very difficult though for me to not think judgmental when I’m going through what I’m going through and what I’ve gone through. But yes I understand I need work so we can be side by side not in a type of parent child relationship.

I’ve been working on being more complimentive and trying to connect on that level vs sex. This is what MC has also suggested. MC asked me if I have been and I told MC it’s hard for me to because with the way my wife has been treating me and I feel she’s getting a big head it’s actually uncomfortable to fuel someone being conceited even more. MC said just do you need to so I’ve been doing it Idk hopefully things come together soon like you said the relationship is in a major downwards spiral.  

[Red5]

This is golden. It’s exactly what it is. My wife will ask me a question or for input  and if my answer doesn’t match her predetermined wishes or enmesh with her thoughts I’m going to be considered controlling. 

I’m screwed, I’m pretty much not going to be allowed to give advice ever. Granted I shouldn’t feel too bad about it she’s proceeded to tell me how controlling her exes were in the past and now I see clearly why she’d say that or two maybe why they would’ve been.

... .one of the most used lines by my udx BPD wife,

... .”what do you think”,

Every single time... .a trap!

... .“what do you think?”... .

And then (AND THEN), like a clock, when I would offer and answer, she will say “huh”... .like she didn’t hear what I said.

It like some kind of weird programming... .almost robotic ?

... .”what do you think?, .huh”... .

Somebody programmed her pretty good, so who did this to her, mum, daddy,  big sis?

It wasn’t her ex H,  no that poor soul was a kept Man... .(in a psychosis cage).

Her two adult children actually told me this.

Hang in there Ltahoe,

Red5

[Ltahoe]

Red

Lol that’s insane. Idk if “huh” would be better, my wife makes everything I say out to be bad.

Take for instance my wife works in a beauty services sector and wanted to provide some services on the side  out of home for clients so she was making a price menu and asked my input. So naturally I ask what’s the in salon rate. So she proceeds to tell me the prices so I suggest some prices that are a little lower. You know I say expierment with 2/3 to 3/4 price and see if ppl are willing to do it for that. She proceeds to get mad, apparently some girl at work told her she provides services for several times the rate. I said well no one’s forcing you to listen to me but you asked so I told you what I thought. She’s like why would I charge less I said I was just basing pricing on the theory of what the average consumer thinks. She was already mad so I said  think of it this way if I need work on a car and some mechanic is like I’ll do it for three times what the shop does out of my home garage are you bringing your car to the shop or the mechanics home garage. Of course if the mechanic specializes in something the shop doesn’t and you’re into high end cars maybe you would for different product or a mod the shop can’t do. If you want three times the rate is there a way you can go above and beyond and specialize with more quality products  or better service, maybe if you can do that you can charge more based on better product/service but would be hard to for the same service same product. In her eyes I was selling her short though.

[Red5]

Ltahoe,

I’ve read... .that one of the behavioral constructs of a pw/BPD is; a sense of “entitlement”.

... .probably hard wired directly to the sense of “victimhood”.

But once you “know”, maybe there is a way to deal with her feelings, and we know that pw/BPD, .feelings = facts.

It’s an obstacle course, of triggers, and the need for constant validation, that must be seen and properly reacted to by the non, (tools) with their “BPD vision goggles”... .in order to avoid a dysregulation, a one sided quarrel... .followed by the silent treatment, or worse... .and episode of ‘acting out’.

Red5

[Ltahoe]

Yes I understand the feeling fact thing, and the entitlement thing. In the situation above at the end I basically said you should go talk to the girl that charges three times as much because if she really does you should find out if she really has clients and take her advice not mine if she has clients.  I already knew she wouldn’t have clients or this coworker wouldn’t work three jobs if she was making 200/hr for providing services out of home. Funny thing at the end of the day my wife ended up making the menu prices in line of what I said, I think she also talked to her manager about it too and someone else talked sense into her. I’m just not allowed to at this point, so idk why I even bother letting myself into these traps. I guess it’s just hard when you want the best for someone not to offer help.


I suppose the best thing I can do right now is work on myself and do what I’m suppose to do to at least be a supportive and loving husband while I’m still married, deep down I don’t want a divorce, but I feel like that’s really not my decision more up to my wife at this point.

It’s just really hard watching someone you love self destruct and you know that’s what’s happening and you have to sit back and watch. It’s been a real rough patch and it seems like the times of dysregulation come in streaks then they’re gone but each streak gets worse and more intense. So part of me fears what’s to come.

I also need to work on my codependency issues. Such as her mood equals my mood. Although I feel my wife enjoys this aspect of me. I swear sometimes if she can make me angry/frustrated I feel like  she legitimately feels that she has transferred her negativity to me and almost becomes happy. If she’s moody and negative and I’m still calm and happy seems she ups the antics to try this transfer.

In the beginning before I knew she had a PD I fell for one thing she had said.”if I’m doing something to you and you want me to understand how it feels do it back to me so I can see what it’s like”  I bet you guys all know how that went.

Idk it’s probably clear I have built up frustrations. Everyone here has made some good points. 

Cat is right part of the frustration is this isn’t the face that was shown during the beginning of the relationship. So in a way I feel mislead/deceived

Enabler pointed out that I’m missing how shameful pwBPD can feel. I suppose I truly will never know just something I’d have to be aware of. That’s also why I don’t get why some of the behaviors, thinking like I think I’d like to think if I felt negative emotions at super intensity that I’d be more aware of my negative behavior. But I suppose I don’t displace my negativity either.

OnceRemoved brought up some good stuff also. At the end of the day I feel like a lot of her threats and calling herself names are her insecurities, and not feeling worthy.

Truth is it’s really hard to know exactly why she says these things pwBPD will never communicate the true intentions of their words at least my wife won’t.

Maybe I’m messed up thinking this. I sometimes think  that my wife knows that relationships are hard for her, and this is why all the divorce threats etc. So sometimes I feel like I do need to cut her free and relieve her of that stress. At the same time that’s abandonment and I also feel like she overlooks the true responsibilities that being a single mother would be. Since I’m the caretaker and traditionally more responsible one she’d have a real rude awakening which I feel she wouldn’t handle well either. Her attitude is often to bail at the first sign of trouble given in anything in life jobs, projects, apparently marriage too. So sometimes in figuring out what’s best for her, me, the kids is rather difficult.

[Notwendy]

I just wanted to add that although I understand your feelings of embarrassment, I found your post to be understandable. You're human. It would make sense to wonder what it would be like to be with someone else. The bottom line for us though, is our actions. We can think, feel, imagine, but whether or not we act on them is, IMHO, is the main importance.

I think it might help to reduce conflicting issues as much as possible and prioritize them as to which ones affect you the most. It also helps to define your boundaries- what is you, what isn't you, which  behaviors you can control and which you can't, or shouldn't. Basically, we can only control ourselves.

To me, a large concern that could affect you is finances. I don't know who is responsible for credit card debt in your area- but if both married spouses are responsible for any debt- then hers is a liability for you. I am not a lawyer, and I don't know how this is done- but it would be better if her debt is her own debt. You could choose to help her if you wish, but not be financially responsible for her spending if she isn't responsible.

The other boundary is your body. She is not touching you in a kind or loving way. Much of what we read in the news these days is about men touching women in inappropriate ways but it can go both ways. I know it is hard to resist her coming on to you, but to me, it's only gratifying to her to do this. You can have the boundary on what she can, or can not do, with your body.

As to her choice of dress- that's on her. She's a adult and can choose to wear what she wants. I understand that you don't like it. I don't like to see people dressed like that either. But this is all on her. So is her behavior with men. All you can do is decide how you will respond with your own behavior.

Personally, I think pwBPD see advice as invalidating. She may ask for advice, and you could say something like " what do you think you would like to do?" rather than just give it. If she pushes for it, put the advice in terms of what would you do. " Well, if it were me, I'd do this" rather than "you should do this".

[Ltahoe]

NotWendy

I think that’s Brilliant, ask her thoughts first. My response would’ve been different. Next time perhaps I can find the thing/s I can validate with her and offer my ideas in a better fashion. Only thing is I hope I don’t get the I asked first thing . So I need ways to counter that. Perhaps I could say I’m looking for more clarity on the matter so I can give you a better answer.

As far as the dress thing I do disagree but at the same time I do realize she’s an adult so I think I sort of have an approach to that. One it’s probably not as seemingly bad as it seems these days society seems to accept that woman can and should wear whatever they want without it being considered sexual in nature. Even though I have moral disagreements I also realize it’s a difference of morals. So what I really think I’m going to do is find ways to validate what she’s interested in wearing. So perhaps I’ll help her dress and see if I can influence her by actually dressing her in some of the sexier things she has and by validating how sexy she does look in them. Perhaps she’ll be more open to my suggestions if I’m not expressing discomfort in her wardrobe. Then at some point if I need to influence her to dress more occasion appropriate she’ll have seen that it’s not necessarily about the piece of clothing but the occasion. It’s sort of sad but in a sense I think she does want to be seen as a trophy wife. Right now I think her it’s more about I can do what I want and she’s overlooking the scenario to prove a point without realizing she’s crossing multiple limits not only with me but jobs also.

Basically what OnceRemoved said is good thinking

[Enabler]

Notwendy's advice is very good and that definitely works, especially "I would do this" rather than "you should do that".

[Notwendy]

Why influence what she wears at all?

I think poor boundaries are a hallmark of these kinds of relationships- on both persons. I think it helps to keep in mind that we need to allow people to make their choices- so long as they are not a danger to themselves or others.

From your posts, she sounds more like a rebellious teen than an adult. You don't like what she's wearing, so she's going to wear it.

Reminds me of high school where some girls as soon as they got to school- rolled up the waist of their skirts to make them shorter, and put on heavy makeup once they were out of view of mom and dad. Mom says "don't wear that short skirt" but they don't want to be controlled.

She's going to wear what she wants. IMHO, I'd focus on her behavior that impacts your well being. She knows how she's dressing.

[Ltahoe]

NotWendy

Perhaps you’re correct. Maybe both of us are crossing boundaries. I don’t mean I want to influence her whole wardrobe by any means or in a daily basis I also know I really can’t force my wife to do anything she’s shown me that. My thoughts are as follows though. I realize a H can’t/shouldn’t force  a wife how to dress. However I really do feel that a husband has a right to ask his feelings be considered. I suppose perhaps many woman would listen and many wouldn’t.

There’s certainly times my wife’s makes requests/asks  or suggestions on what I do or don’t wear. Has made comments if I’m dressed well and she’s just in yoga pants and a T-shirt. Requests certain colors to match her, is interested in what I’m wearing. I just suppose it would be a little nice if it was a reciprocal arrangement. Certainly now I really don’t ask my wife any requests as the situation has become sensitive. In fact now the situation sits as follows before the rebellion I had asked my wife to change twice. It was once when she was wearing shorts that would be exposing her rear in public and once about a see through dress. By no means am I interested in influencing it daily or even frequently.

I feel though you talk about the boundaries and my thoughts are are as follows. Both people start having boundary issues as a cycle. One person in this case pwBPD presents them self as person A great person that understand person B core values morals etc. Person A acts in a manner within Person B’s core values and morals in fact confirming a lot of them. Person B believes they have not exact values but similar enough values. Person A starts acting like a new person, perhaps person C we’ll call this part of the personality. Person C violates and pushes to extremes person B’s core values and morals perhaps violating the same morals they seemed to have in the beginning. Person B a codependent isn’t going to be like a Job and terminate the relationship if Person C violates core values and morals. Person B still wants the relationship to work so person B is now uncomfortable with the behavior of this new person C and has an interest in protecting the relationship, and yet not interested in leaving. Thereforre person B is now stuck watching person C violate many aspects of what built the relationship so person B feels has to either accept(hard to do because of values), terminate, or possibly change(boundary issues perhaps) the relationship. Of course the first two options aren’t really in the interest of person B so that leave the third option. Not saying it’s right just what I see.

My whole idea was to be playful with her wardrobe so she sees in fact I’ll accept it. If I’m crossing boundaries then I suppose I am. I think the fact that she’s made a point that she knows she gets sexual attention for wearing such things is what makes matters worse. I think this is what truly dug in is that she figured out what makes me uncomfortable me (which is extreme pretty much showing booty, or exposing undergarments at this point) so I’m going to wear it and even dig it in by letting you know, I know I get attention for it and use it to cut you if you don’t act how I want. Hence the threats “I’m leaving many men find me attractive you should’ve realized you’re lucky” during a conflict to get her way. To me it  feels like it’s disrespectful to the marriage considering she knows it invites potential interlopers and actually seems to enjoy this facet of her dress.

[Notwendy]

I agree that it is disrespectful to a marriage to be showing off your bootie and making comments about how men find you attractive to your H.

I think both parties have boundary issues in a dysfunctional marriage. Having you wear matching colors is one of them. IMHO, this sounds again- like high school where the girl wants her prom date to coordinate with her dress. That's age appropriate. I think it's a bit odd to do this with a husband unless you are planning to take family photos and don't want the colors to clash.

The thing is- it is her body and her bootie and she can do what she wants with it, respectful or not. Your boundary is how you are going to manage your own behavior. I wonder if it lost it's "power" over you if she'd find it as intriguing. However, the attention she gets from men is also rewarding in a sense. Sad in a way that she feels she has to do this.

It also has a negative affect. It's not a respectful way to dress but that's her choice too.

If you are concerned she won't be faithful then the shorts don't help, but one can just as easily cheat without dressing like that.

[Ltahoe]

NotWendy

Correct about the dress. I had an ex Gf that found her cheating partner while wearing a hideous colored work polo and Black pants. Not exactly sexy apparel . Thanks for the insight, it’s easy to blame our partners with BPD. Often times looking within even though not easy can help us see if we’re escalating and contributing to problems.

[AskingWhy]

I can't add to what has already been said, but I wanted to comment on the divorce threats.

My uBPD H does this almost every time he dysregulates.  When he is having tension (not having seen his adult children lately, stress at work, TV news, unexpected bills, etc.) H will dysregulate and project his tension on me.

The divorce threats used to upset me to tears.  H totally broke me down, saying he hated me, hated our marriage (he is enmeshed with his adult children, especially the daughters), told me I am just an old hag and no one would want me, etc.

I finally found my backbone and saw this was just the raving of a very sick man.  The threats, once a blackmail tool to get me to capitulate to anything he wanted (new cars, vacations, my accepting the verbal abuse of his children) looked laughable.  Now when H says he wants me out of his life, I call him out on it, saying calmly, "Do whatever you need to do."  No begging, no crying.  Just a calm response and a disengage.  I don't give him the drama he craves.   I have checked with an attorney and know my rights in case he does decide to have me served for divorce.  I am also confident that I will move on.

I am so sorry you have to tolerate this.   Many of us know what you are going through.