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WTL
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« on: February 25, 2019, 06:41:17 PM »

We spend more time talking about pwBPD here than we do about ourselves. pwBPD have a poor sense of who they are. We don’t.

This thread is for saying who you are.

I’m a father, brother and a musician. I’m a blue collar worker and I’m good at what I do. I’m a loyal and fierce friend. I have faults and flaws that I accept. I’m a procrastinator. I’m a survivor. I’m a skeptical believer. I own my  Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post). I love nature and the seasons. I understand who I am and why. I’m aware of what I need to do to improve, and I’m trying very hard to do that. I’m a joy to be around and also a grump. That scale is tipping in a better direction.

I could go on and totally dissect myself. I’m curious about my fellow peers. Who are you? Being cool (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2019, 08:13:33 PM »

I'm someone who's chosen not to take the paths of either my fist set of parents, nor my adoptive mother.  And that's made all the difference. 

Cultural and familial inertia is strong. 

Family Systems Theory says that The Rebel is poorly differentiated. I prefer to be one on the inside. 
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« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2019, 08:33:41 PM »


Family Systems Theory says that The Rebel is poorly differentiated. I prefer to be one on the inside.


I was an outward rebel. Sometimes I still am. That aside, what is the Family Systems Theory? I’ve not heard of it. Also, maybe this theory has a different definition as to what a rebel is.
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« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2019, 09:44:48 PM »

There's some great 30K ft level stuff here,  but not much detail.

https://thebowencenter.org/theory/eight-concepts/
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« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2019, 10:02:08 PM »

5 and 8 spoke to me. I haven’t read them all thoroughly yet. Do you have a favorite or two? A recommendation?
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« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2019, 10:12:54 PM »

Read them all.  I follow the Facebook page but it seems more geared towards professional who join the society and are in a position to attend the lectures and events. 
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« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2019, 10:38:01 PM »

Who am I?
I am a mother. I am a giver. I have much compassion and empathy, and I try too hard to take care of everyone... except me.
I am a reader, I am a writer. I can draw a little, I can paint a little, but I haven't in a long time.
I love to sing. I used to play piano, and I bet I could again if I practiced. In high school I played bass drum, timpani, bells, marimba, and a 1979 Fender Rhodes bass keyboard. That was fun.
I am a Christian. I am a child of the Most High God, and I couldn't have survived the last forty-one years without Him.
I am a restaurant worker and a student, finally getting a degree after all these years.
I am an overcomer.

What defines me?
Not my mistakes, not my depression or former addiction, not my anxiety or c-ptsd. Not the verbal and emotional abuse from my dad, not my mother's mental illness that caused her to attempt suicide and be disabled for the rest of her life (which was most of my life). Not the physical, mental and emotional abuse of my marriage.

I used to let these things define me. Now, I know that I am not defined by my experiences. I define myself, and I do that with my response to my experiences.

Great thread, WTL!

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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2019, 02:17:19 AM »

Excerpt
pwBPD have a poor sense of who they are. We don’t.
Do we really?

Excerpt
I could go on and totally dissect myself. I’m curious about my fellow peers. Who are you?
Have you seen the movie "anger management" by adam sandler? in a scene (found the perfect clip to go along with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MV4zHRnIUpU) the therapist/counselor buddy rydell asks "silent anger man" dave (adam sandler) that same question and every answer is met by "not like that, just who you are", like:

Buddy: "You want Lou to tell you who you are?" *everyone laughs* "Its a simple question dave, just, who you are.."
Dave: "I don't know what the hell you want me to say!!"

I love that movie, especially the parts where they sing "I feel pretty" and the "goossfrabaaa" thing Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

My simple answer would have to be "I am me, no one else"
What does that even mean? well, that changes with time, I am not who I was in college, and I'm not who I was just a few months ago when my gf broke up with me. Its also not terribly defined, I really don't really know what "being me" is, what defines me and I'm ok with being "just" me.

I am me, and that should be enough.

As for traits I cherish in myself, my creative problem solving skills, my ability to question the status quo and not going with the flow, but also not "fighting" it, yet doing what I can to change it.

Not terribly enlightening I know, its a weird mix, I like it tho  Being cool (click to insert in post) I'm working on a few things I'd like to improve, but overall I like being me.
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« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2019, 05:14:58 AM »

We spend more time talking about pwBPD here than we do about ourselves. pwBPD have a poor sense of who they are. We don’t.

I do.  This is on my to-do list though.  It's one if the reasons I was so enmeshed.  When I was with her I knew who I was.  Now not so much.
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« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2019, 08:22:18 AM »

Excerpt
Excerpt
pwBPD have a poor sense of who they are. We don’t.
Do we really?


Good questions, itsmeSnap and WTL.  This is something I know my ex struggled with.  So have I in my own way even though I don't have BPD or NPD

Here's a post about mirroring I've found helpful and interesting.  I especially relate to the first definition outlined by Skip in reply #5 (quoted below.) 

Excerpt
The term mirroring is very useful, but also very confusing because of its other, more prominent uses.

1) The theory of mirroring was developed by Heinz Kohut, MD.  Kohut said that children need to have their conversations and accomplishments acknowledged, accepted and praised by others.  Kohut felt that it is important for a child's legitimate feelings of be mirrored by its parents. The parent's mirroring gets internalized in time by the child, so as the child gets older they can provide their own mirroring, their own sense of self-appreciation.  Children who do not get enough mirroring are considered by many psychologists to be at risk of developing a narcissistic personality later in life.

The basis of healthy self-esteem is that one's natural self, with all its emotions, with its successes and failures, is acceptable and loveable. If the child does not feel their parents love them for themselves, apart from accomplishments, they will develop what object relations theorists call the "false self," - the self that is fabricated in order to get the approval of his parents, based on the ability to achieve good grades, a good job, a good mate, etc.

As most know, "false self" is often talked about as an issue with people affected by Borderline Personality Disorder.

2) A popular (non-clinical) use of the term mirroring is described by Nicholas Boothman (author). Its a communication technique.   Boothman wrote How to Make People Like You in 90 Seconds or Less, more or less, an update of Dale Carnegie's classic How to Win Friends and Influence People.  Boothman says that adjusting your posture, voice, words and gestures to match those of a new acquaintance is critical for "connecting" because we are all attracted to others who are just like us,  "People respond when you speak at their pace. To establish an instant rapport, mirror your new friend's head nods and tilts [etc.]". 
. . .

There is more.  Click through to mirroring to read the whole post. 
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« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2019, 08:46:23 AM »

Great thread! Redeemed, your post sounds similar to me. Smiling (click to insert in post)
Who am I?
I'm a woman, mother of two sons, and a daughter. I'm a Christian (a very imperfect one). I'm compassionate, loving, moody, hot-tempered, funny (so people tell me), sometimes childish, sometimes gullible.
I'm musically inclined, played clarinet in hs and college, had a music scholarship for a year.
I love to read, love nature, hiking, kayaking (new hobby). I was once more creative and I hope to encourage that part of me again.
I'm a receptionist/administrative assistant, but I'm pursuing my counseling degree (finally!).

Who I won't be anymore:
I won't let my sense of self be lost in another. I won't compromise who I am for another, ever again. I won't be someone's whipping girl, ever again.
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« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2019, 11:45:13 AM »

codependency is the opposite of a well differentiated sense of self.

people with a well differentiated sense of self dont over rely on mirroring or idealization, struggle as most of us have with devaluation, or require excessive external validation.

i know that by and large, those things have defined me in the past.

we are all unique and wild mixes of personality traits, senses of humor, things that make us tick, fears, hopes, dreams, quirks we have borrowed from others, insights, wisdom, hobbies, likes and dislikes (any of which may be subject to change), and DNA.

not all of us though, are living our authentic selves.
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« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2019, 06:49:18 AM »

codependency is the opposite of a well differentiated sense of self.
I agree with that. I lost myself trying to keep my pwBPD happy. In return he would say tell me things like how he didn't praise me because he didn't believe in flattery. He truly saw very little positive in me for long periods of time. When he left, I went into a spiral that took over a year to get out of. There were some days that I got absolutely nothing done, and at times I drank too much. I'd keep myself up all night ruminating.

I feel much more like myself now. Friends say I act and talk entirely differently. We're in the divorce process, and I stand up for myself now and don't fall apart when he comes at me.

Life is hard but good. I'm juggling multiple jobs, school, and looking for better work. But I have a lot of good friends and the love of family.
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« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2019, 09:03:11 PM »

Snap, I know who I am. I know where I’m at. Thank you for the rebuttal, though.

I’ve not seen the movie. I don’t watch TV anymore. DVD’s are for my son.

My simple answer would have to be "I am me, no one else"

You strike me as a self aware person.
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« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2019, 09:21:08 PM »

Excerpt
I know who I am. I know where I’m at.
That's great!  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

I guess the point was to show that just knowing where the "me" ends and the "other" starts is enough, even without any real idea what the "me" is (which as I said, I really don't have a clear "communicable" idea myself).

In the movie "bedazzled" the devil asks the guy who is about to sell his soul to her if he "even know what the soul is? what has it done for you lately?" he answers "well, its this thing that... it floats around.. whatever, if you think its so worthless then how come you want it so much!".

He, without knowing what the soul/essence/self was, knew it was valuable, just like we should know to value "the self", whatever that is. (I watch a lot of movies, don't know how healthy it is to take life advice from them Laugh out loud (click to insert in post))

bpd's and codependents do get "enmeshed" and have trouble figuring out that the "other" exists apart from them, you got that right.
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« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2019, 11:12:03 PM »

Hey, Snap. I appreciate your post. It has my gears turning.

knowing where the "me" ends and the "other" starts

I lost this with S4’s mom. I lost myself. I became so wrapped up in trying to fix everything. I didn’t give myself any time to really think about how I was feeling (self care) and what steps I needed to take to feel better. I lost myself.

I was obsessed with the Harry Potter story. I watched the movies over and over. Personally, the story is magnificent. I relate to it. I think that it’s ok to consider ideas that are presented in the form of art. Good art is thought provoking and it’s up for interpretation as you’ve described. If it helps, it does.

Enmeshment is something that I’m just now starting to sit with. I lost myself in another. It became full-on after S4’s mom became pregnant. I had poor boundaries. My values and virtues were present, but I didn’t know how to protect them.

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« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2019, 01:00:56 AM »

Vexed, thanks for sharing. You know, self identity is discussed a lot here, but I haven’t seen it as a topic very often.

I’d like to speak with you on a personal level. I didn’t know who I was upon coming out of the relationship with S4’s mom. I didn’t know who I was upon stepping out into the world after being raised. I didn’t have a solid frame of reference. Only bad examples that I couldn’t digest, but I only knew that.

What I knew was false. Does any of this resonate with you?
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« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2019, 03:03:09 AM »

Hello-
Great topic considering why we are in this forum.

Who am I,
an intelligent, highly educated woman, a pagan, and avid reader, who has worked very hard to reverse the consequences of having had a violent Borderline mother and a dad that did not protect us. This last item I believe defines me because the experience of growing up in a chaotic, violent family deeply wounded me emotionally and it has been a life-time struggle to work through the trauma and the co-dependency I learned in that family. I have made many mistakes, yet picked myself up, and kept going; very recently realized that I am addicted to addicts.

Who I am,
Someone who has been in therapy for many years, experienced EMDR which took the edge off the abuse, and for the past 2 years I have been working with a talented, sensitive, wonderful psychotherapist, during this time I have made amazing strides. She is the best mirror I have ever had.

I am someone who  continues to take the challenge of the Borderline mother legacy, I continue to learn, develop more awareness, and growth. 

Thank you for listening

Zen606


 
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« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2019, 07:23:41 AM »

I Am Redeemed.

I try too hard to take care of everyone... except me.

I understand feeling this way. I was conditioned to do it for a while. I eventually rebelled. From what I’ve read, you’ve been taking conscious steps to turn this around and take care of yourself first. It feels pretty awkward, doesn’t it? You know, in trying to do this for myself, I’ve been watching other people do it. I should say, I’ve caught on to it. I’m recognizing the boundaries and limitations that people set. Not towards me, I’m just noticing these things in everyday life by observing. Then I think to myself that I would be forever clueless if I hadn’t found this place. I didn’t learn to do that in therapy. I learned it here.

I am an overcomer

You certainly are.

I know that I am not defined by my experiences.

You certainly aren’t. It’s hard to undo all of the conditioning, but we know who we are at our core. Even the ones that hurt us, know who they are at their core, but for some reason they can’t go there.
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« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2019, 07:35:06 AM »

Vexed, that’s an interesting post.

I do.  This is on my to-do list though.  It's one if the reasons I was so enmeshed.  When I was with her I knew who I was.  Now not so much.

I understand what you’re saying. I truly get it. Without beating around the bush with a long and drawn out post, I’d like to invite you to the PSI board (parent, sibling, inlaw). Hope to see you there.
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« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2019, 07:52:10 AM »

Hi, Zen606.

Excerpt
I have made many mistakes, yet picked myself up

I think that one of the best traits that many of us here possess is self awareness. Knowing. I see that in your statement. A violent childhood is something to behold. Looking back on it is still mind boggling. The thing is, it’s looked back on. It isn’t present even though it can feel that way at times. Visit us on the PSI (parent, sibling, inlaw) board.

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« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2019, 01:04:00 AM »

Hi WTL,
Yes, you are correct, the violent childhood, is something to look back on, it's no longer happening, although when we are triggered that is how it feels. Awareness of how triggers work make a big difference when one responds to situations as a child, an adult or a wise-mind. This has been a big break-through for me, knowing which response I am giving and why. If the child is being triggered then I know I still have work to do in that area.

Will visit your board.
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« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2019, 08:37:37 PM »

Hey, Zen. I don’t think these childhoods ever leave us. I’ve asked my T about it, her response is that healing is possible. She won’t say that it will have to be managed. She’s pretty great, but this part bothers me. Why won’t she just say that it has to be managed? Maybe it’s too early in her eyes to drop that. I know what it is. That’s enough. She helps a lot.

Recognizing and reacting is key. I didn’t know much about myself when I started to learn about this stuff.
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« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2019, 08:43:30 PM »

or.

excessive external validation.

I’ve been prone to this. I know why now. It’s a relationship killer. Thanks for pointing it out for us.

not all of us though, are living our authentic selves.[\b]

You’re right. Finding that important part of ourselves can be difficult to achieve.
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« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2019, 12:23:42 AM »

Hi TWL,
Yes, our childhoods never leave us and we do have to manage the residue. Have you read The Drama of the Gifted Child by Alice Miller ?  I read it thrice, first as interesting reading, the second time for grad school, and the third, last year during my current therapy experience. Through all of those pages Miller has one major observation. In our lives we repeat the issue we want to solve with our parents through our relationships.  This time reading her book, I was blown away, it was clear what I had been doing all of these years. I even drew a diagram about it and showed it to my T. It was an amazing thing for me to see in black and white.

Your T may not be saying anything because she may be waiting to see where you are going with the issues, how you will decide to manage. 

Zen606

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« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2019, 07:50:51 AM »

Hi, Zen606. I’ve not read the book, but will be ordering it today. I’ll add it to my collection of unread books. Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post) I have a bad habit of starting a book and not finishing it. I do have the occasional spree of reading 3 in a week, but it’s rare. Anyhow, I’ll have the book on hand. Thanks for the recommendation.

You know, it never crossed my mind that my T may be waiting on me. I imagine that being a good therapist involves a great deal of thought out strategy. I’m learning that it’s not the therapist’s job to sort things out for us. I had this misconception in the past. It’s there job to help us organize our thoughts and feelings.
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« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2019, 08:56:27 AM »

~their~ Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2019, 12:01:13 AM »

Hi WTL,
Yes! It's our job to work out the issues, the therapist job to do as you describe, help us sort out our thoughts and emotions. I see my therapist as this person that is a positive mirror for me, and has held my hand and walked along with me in my journey for the past 1 and a half years.  So much I have processed and so much more still awaits me. I think: it took me decades to develop the issues I am looking at now, so therapy cannot be a quick fix.

I hope you like Alice Miller's book, she wrote several but this is one that really struck me because she spells out the essentials. Hope you did not pay too much for it, I bought it at a second hand book place on the internet, about $4.00, no shipping!  I'm not mentioning the name of the internet place, not sure if that is allowed on the forum.

Best
Zen606
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« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2019, 06:10:24 PM »

Hi again, Zen606. I grabbed this from your previous post and it makes sense to me.

In our lives we repeat the issue we want to solve with our parents through our relationships.

I’ve heard this called a “corrective outcome”. I won’t go into a long and drawn out explanation of my thoughts. The facts are simple. If a baby is never held, it will die. Fast forward to survival with unmet needs by a mother. A little further down the path of growing are unmet needs by a father, etc. Life doesn’t stop moving forward. Nature or nurture? IMHO, there are too many variables to currently nail that down.

I’m going off on a tangent again. I do that quite a bit. Right now, I have to laugh at that.
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« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2019, 09:38:32 PM »

Staff only

This thread reached the maximum post limit and has been locked.  Please feel free to continue the discussion in a new thread.
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Doughboy
drained1996
dumpsterdog
Duped 1
eeps
eggshelldad
Ela2011
Elpis51
Enabler
Enjoysnooker
Ex-Mother-In-Law
Eye438
FaithHopeLoveKC
fb97
Feeling Better
Fie
Firstintime
foggydew
ForeverDad
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Fossil49
Fragileweed
Francesca92
freespirit
Gemsforeyes
gettingoverit
gloveman
gorges
gotbushels
Greta1988
Hadenoughtimes4
HappyChappy
HarborBP
Harley Quinn
Harri
heartandwhole
Help_WifeIsCrazy
Hope26
hope2727
Hope80
Hopeful15
houseofelvis
Hyacinth Bucket
I Am Redeemed
IamWoman
Iloveher
incadove
Isanni
jdc
JeanGenie
Jerome Finn
JoeBPD81
joeramabeme
jones54
Jonthan
just me.
k-bliss
k54
kabunk
KarlTOO
Lbjnltx
Leah66
Learning Fast
Learnnow
leenlou
Libra
LilMe
Long_term_dad
Lovelycat
lovenature
Loving a BP
loyalwife
Luan
Lucky Jim
mama-wolf
Manifest32f
Maniplus
Maple
maried
Markey
MARS22
MeandThee29
mims
mmelibrarian
Momofadultbpd
mousemat
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mscj
mumabear
Mustbeabetterway
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naturalturn
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nedley
needPeace
NGU
no_more_guilt
Northern girl
NorthernGirl
Notgoneyet
OffRoad
Omega1
Only Human
otherlife
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Panda39
pcglee
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PeacefulMom
Pina colada
pjmanley41
prof
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Pugman
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QBert
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Radcliff
Raul
Recycle
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Rocko
RolandOfEld
Sad4Her
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schwing
SCM
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Stevenson
still around
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Tattered Heart
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Teno
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Tsultan
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Vanilla Sky
Vexed
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Yaffle
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