Daughter wants me to help with her rent at a new Recovery House

[jones54]

Many of you know my story. My 33yo DD has not been in touch with me or her mother for many months. Her most recent communication was that she "forgave me for things in the past" because she no longer wanted to be angry. That was 3 to 4 weeks ago and I have not heard anything since. She now e-mails me and says she wants to go to a recovery house. She has been living with a friend for the last 3 months and we have no idea what she was doing. Last October I was asked to help pay her first months rent at another recovery house (she was kicked out of the first one). I reluctantly agreed. After 2 1/2 weeks she walked out of this one, got a bus ticket and went to Florida. Ran out of money there and was bussed back by the friend she now lives with.
I want to rebuild a relationship with her but I am very bothered by the fact for the last 3 months she has been with someone and I am sure not paying any rent. I do not understand why she has no money. Was she not working all this time?  She could have been saving so much.
I know if I do not help her she is going to lash back at me and tell me how terrible I am since I will not help her. Yes, I want her to move forward but I am so bothered by how she disrespected last time I helped and she walked out of the recovery house.
How do I not help and still hope we can eventually rebuild a relationship? My gut is to tell her how I feel with what happened last time and simply say I am sorry but I do not feel comfortable doing this. Almost want her to show me her bank account and show proof she has no money! Need advice.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[FaithHopeLove]

Hi Jones54
I can relate to your ambivalence. I also struggle to figure out where my boundaries are when it comes to helping my BPD son. Balancing the desire to help the children we love and the need to be true to ourselves is not easy. One thing that helps me is reminding myself that my boundaries are about me, not DS. It really is possible to assert boundaries without judging the other person. Do you know what I mean? It's like saying "honey, I understand you want help with your rent and that is understandable but it is hard for me to feel OK about doing that right now." Do you think that would work?

[jones54]

Thanks FaithLoveHope. I am not sure she would get it. She feels I have plenty of money and that is something as a father I should always do. Her mother has already told her she can no longer help her with money. She says she cannot afford it (she has spent a lot on her in the past which she now regrets to a degree). I am sure I could say that I am uncomfortable doing this right now and explain my reasons but she would simply turn it around and hold it against me. You are right, I should do this based on my boundaries. It just bothers me so much that she most likely has not been working and therefore did not save any money knowing this is what she eventually would need to do (move out on her own). I thought about saying I would loan her the money but that would be a joke since she has never paid me back in the past. UGH.

[once removed]

hi jones, i can see that this is complicated. i have a few clarifying questions:

I do not understand why she has no money. Was she not working all this time?  She could have been saving so much.

might it help to know these things first - to ask in a non judgmental way, and/or get a sense of what her plans are?

what about making the money conditional or bit by bit, like setting up an account that contains exactly enough for one month at a time, that sort of thing? would that be workable?

also, if shes planning on living in a recovery house, does that mean shes sober?

[Music Ace]

Chiming in really quickly Jones54 - I immediately thought that perhaps you could offer to reimburse AFTER she completed the program.  Although, if she doesn't have any money, the idea doesn't have a leg to stand on.

That's my quick thought, though.

Perhaps it will inspire a new work 'doable' approach.

Alternately - offer to assist with budgeting?  That way, you could actually see her financials? ... .but how accurate and truthful will they be guaranteed to be, though. 

Ace

[jones54]

Hi OR. I agree that maybe I should ask a few questions first before I make any decision. I would like to know what she has been doing the last three months since we have had no communication from her. Also what her plans are. Of course this would be done in a nonjudgmental way.
Yes, it is our understanding she is sober. We suspect the person she is staying with has decided she needs to move on. Since she has no credit going to a halfway house is her best option short of being homeless again.
 I would not want to set something up as a month to month thing since she is only asking for half the rent for the first month and offering month to month help would go against her living on her own.
Ace, your right, I cannot reimburse her since she needs the money now. I do agree that helping her with budgeting could be helpful. Sure seems odd though since the person she has been staying with is a CPA. Problem is I am not sure he knows how to budget since her went bankrupt at one time.
Just very difficult for me that when I paid fro one months rent before (and she either got kicked out or walked out before the month was even up, I had said I would not do this again and now she is asking. Sad that I feel she has always made our relationship conditional on my helping her financially.

[Turkish]

My mother with BPD was never good with money.  I rescued hey plenty of times after I became an adult, including saving her from foreclosure in '99. After that, it was utilities (a nerverending saga of cut offs) and vehicle repairs. I was enabling her.  When I stopped, she survived. I know it isn't the same as a child, but she's 33. The reticence to let her be an independent adult,  no matter how foolish her choices, is the risk of her cutting you off emotionally.  Has she done that with hter mom?

[jones54]

Hi Turkish. I have stepped way back from enabling her the last few years. I struggled whether to help with her first months rent when the last time she went to a halfway house. I did it because I did not want to see her homeless again and an addictionologist/therapist that worked with her suggested I consider helping this one time since she was staying sober. Her mother has told her that she can no longer help her with money since she cannot afford it so our DD does not ask her anymore. It is not like my daughter is threatening to withhold having a relationship with me if I do not help. It is just that usually this is the way she interprets things... .(if I do not help with $, I do not love or care about her). It is a form of manipulation.
I have decided I will not just give her the money. I know she has money coming back with a tax return. The amount she is asking for is no more than $250 so she should be able to pay me back. I might consider loaning it to her. The question is, will she pay me back.

[Lollypop]

Hi jones54

I too stopped giving son28 money. It really helped our relationship. He didn’t have financial management skills and we kept giving and enabling in the guise of “helping” him with his problems.

He’s stable financially now because he’s functioning. He’s addicted to skunk. We gave him a substantial loan last year and agreed a monthly repayment figure that he could easily afford. He’d been refused credit. The stresses of owning old unreliable cars was a problem.

I found that this loan immediately affected our relationship despite it being stronger (much stronger because I’d worked hard on building my core relationship with him).  Each month I have to chase for his payment. Sometimes I’ve let him be late because he’s been paid less, like at Xmas with two weeks off. I find myself slipping back to being too soft. I can’t risk this because it will affect our relationship. He’s late this month because he had tax to pay in January. We try to be flexible but it’s a thin line to gauge and negotiate. I really need to use my interaction skills to ask for the money - also curb my resentment and expectations of him.

What I’m saying is. If you loan her the money I advise you  to have a plan about how you will interact with your daughter to get it repaid before the money leaves your hand.

What’s the priority? The relationship or the loan?

For us, it’s both. We have to be repaid. It would have been easier to gift the money but 1. We couldn’t afford it. 2. He’s a drug user and that’s enabling.  Is our loan enabling?  Yes, but the car allows him to function, to work, gives him something to work towards. He’s doing his best.

Money and BPD is just so complicated.

I’m not sure if this helps you at all but I wanted to share.

[jones54]

Thanks Lollypop. Sorry for the delayed response. I went away for a week. I agree with you it is such a fine line with money. I have loaned her money in the past but rarely got paid back. Yes, it would be easier to gift her but that would be enabling. We believe she has been staying with a friend for free for the last 3 months. For her not to have saved enough money to pay her first months rent is ridiculous. While we do not know any details (we have not heard much at all from her for the last 3 + months, which is another sore point... .we only hear from her when she needs $), it is hard for me to give her any money. You only want them to be self sufficient and take care of themselves. It is easy to say they may not have the ability to do this but she is smarter than both her parents. Problem is, she is lazy. Sad to have such potential but does not apply herself.
My other issue is that my girlfriend/ fiance would be totally against any financial help to her. I did it once before and she said I was wasting my time helping her (and she was right when my DD left the halfway house before the month was even up). As you said, what is the priority, the relationship or the loan. So hard.

[wendydarling]

Hi jones 

Tough stuff. Relationship, money. Have you heard from your daughter?

Last night I followed a DBT conversation and the Q posed by the DBT leader as an icebreaker was, What is one thing do you wish people knew about your experience and/or about BPD? A number answered that I'm not lazy. You know your DD is smart. How do you link those, validate your DD, this is real for both of you.

WDx

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jones54]

Hi WD. Thanks for the note. I was gone all last week and since I have been back, she has not contacted me. She did text her mother and gave her the number of her new phone. The way I left it before I went on vacation is that I would be happy to discuss this when I returned. Since she has not contacted me, I am not even sure if she needed the $. At this point I am still happy to talk to her but will await for her to contact me.
I would never say she is lazy directly to her face. Maybe that is not the best word. She is the opposite of her brother. Most of her life she has done just enough to get by. Maybe that is a millennial thing.
 I have to be honest. While I am always in want of a better relationship, it has been much more peaceful not dealing with all the chaos and ups and downs lately. It is not that I have given up, I have just come to the conclusion that most all of the past I was willing to do anything to try to make things work. I suspect this was not completely good since it taught my DD she could get away with anything and not worry I was going to put up a boundary. I know life will not ever be perfect with the relationship with my DD but I have to have it on my terms just as much as on hers. I hope we can both get to this point. I have also learned a lot here. I will try to validate her feelings and not try to just explain how what she does effects me.

[wendydarling]

Hi jones 

How are you? Sometimes a break can help a new beginning in the conversation. You offered to talk with her. 

I would never say she is lazy directly to her face

Of course not. You've a smart daughter with MH issues that include struggling with how to get from A to B without blowing everything up in her path, including relationships. It's been enlightening for me to read online what BPD means for pwBPD and their lives. Have you read any of the articles on The Mighty?

I have just come to the conclusion that most all of the past I was willing to do anything to try to make things work. I suspect this was not completely good since it taught my DD she could get away with anything and not worry I was going to put up a boundary

I relate, we can bend over backwards with our pw BPD go with our intuition. The lesson for me was there are new skills, tools and lessons to learn, this ain't normal parenting.

I have to have it on my terms just as much as on hers

Absolutely.
Have you worked out your terms?

WDx

[jones54]

Hi WD,
Thanks for checking in. I have never heard back from my DD. I assume she either did not need the $ or found another way. I did speak with her mother last night and she recently did communicate with our DD. It sounds like she is sober and now lives in another halfway house. She also is working. I also found out she told her mother she wants nothing to do with me and for her mother to tell me nothing about what is going on in her life. After I had emailed my DD back about not wanting to make a decision about the rent $ and saying I would be happy to discuss this when I got back from vacation, she immediately went on Facebook and did a distortion campaign against me saying how bad a father I am. My ex said it was only up for a short duration (she actually never saw it but found out from her sister).
I just found all this out last night. I guess nothing has changed except that my DD is sober, is working and seems to be supporting herself. She still wants nothing to do with me. I am grateful she has not been sending hate texts and emails.
At some point in time you just need to surrender and have acceptance. Of course I still am hopeful that some day we can have some type of relationship.  Yes, I need my terms. She needs to stop treating me so poorly and I strongly feel that we all need to sit down with a counselor.  Unfortunately we feel she probably likes playing the victim because that is pretty much all she knows how to do.
I am not sure what else I can do. Her mother and I feel we both have done the best we could have done with her (she received much more than others would have...maybe that is the problem) but she continues to stay angry. Sorry to say but her language of love is how much $ you will give her.
I feel bad that she has BPD just as I feel bad she has addiction issues. I have tried for years ( I am not perfect) to help her. Now that her parents have decided she needs to take care of herself, she does not like this new way. All I can do is hope some day she will understand that we have always loved her but now we have to love her in another way.