Didn't know what I was in for.

[AriesDragon]

Just joined. Having trouble managing the toxicity of this Ex drama. Found this site by reading articles about toxic Ex's and coparenting.
The boys were withheld from my SO for a year. We finally got rights to have them every other weekend. They've been with us two weekends now.
Reading articles about BPD makes me sad for her, but I see her behavior as malicious and vindictive.
She wouldn't agree to helping with transportation of the boys and made my SO believe that he had no choice but to comply with all transportation or not get them at all. He was duped into agreeing just to finally be with his kids.
Taking the boys back on sunday, we stopped at a rest area to potty. One of the boys had to go #2 and took a little longer. When the clock struck 7 and we weren't at her house, she began texting, then when we didn't answer she began calling. No joke we pulled in the drive at 4 minutes after. She came out and began bitching about us being late and not phoning her to tell her we'd be late... blah, blah.
I did the 1.5 hrs down and my SO was swapping seats to drive the 1.5 hrs back (mind you twice a weekend, twice a month).
I got out of the car, the boys were unloading on the opposite site of my suv. I replied, "it's 4 minutes, give us a break." She kept yapping about the court order. Before I knew it, I had flipped her off. Chest level, no one saw but her and me. She kept verbally vomitting every where, but I had stopped listening. I went to the other side of the suv to get in the passenger seat (walking around the back of the car to minimize seeing her). B11(the oldest boy) heard something she said and turned to me eyes huge and mouth wide open, like he couldn't believe what he was hearing. I thankfully couldn't hear her.
When we got home she'd sent a message saying I'm not to come on the property again because she feels threatened and afraid. What the heck? Yeah, I know... crazy doesn't have to make sense.
I don't want the kids to have to hear her rant when I show up next time, so I plan to ask the neighbor if we can load and unload from their drive, because it isn't safe to park on the winding road. A large part of me wants to ignore her demands to stay off the property and just park in her drive like normal people do.

[worriedStepmom]

Stepparenting is hard.  Were you involved in the kids' lives before the last 2 weekends, or is your relationship with your SO newer?

I trigger my H's exW by existing.  She now claims to be "afraid" of me because I have told her firmly on multiple occasions that her behavior was unacceptable.  In reality, I am a threat to her view of herself as a parent.  There's a stepparent element going on here, as well as the fact that she knows I don't have a high opinion of her, and that makes her question her own opinion of herself.  That's scary.

I've learned that it isn't my responsibility to deal with her - it is my husband's.  I do not engage with her at all (even though she tries to text or call me whenever she is annoyed with my H).  When she's in a snit, I do not respond.  At all.

When we were doing exchanges I learned it was best that I not get out of the car at her house.  You and your H can pull into a gas station after you hand off the kids and change drivers.

In your shoes, I would also apologize to the kids next time you see them.  "I'm really sorry that there was an argument with your mom when we dropped you off last time.  That must have been really uncomfortable for you to have to hear that.  Next time I think I'll stay in the car and maybe that will help defuse the situation."

[AriesDragon]

My H and I've lived together over a year. A month ago when visitation started was when I first met the boys. I hired an attorney in August that was not getting things done. They finally served the custody complaint the day after Christmas. Once I learned it took that long just for them to serve her the complaint, I fired them. We then began representing ourselves. This means him representing himself, because I am not able to participate in any of the Court appointments. I still wrote the parenting plan and did everything I could to try and make it as Ironclad as possible. That did not work in my favor because she duped him into agreeing to doing all the transportation.
 The whole time she kept the children from him, she blamed it on me. When there were occasions to actually be in her presence, she would try to turn me against him and act as if we were friends. After multiple phone calls on speaker phone and text messages bashing me, I had no desire to even look at her let alone be her friend.
 I communicated to her very early that I found her behavior embarrassing to all women and that she was behaving irrationally. It seems when I stand up to her, she stops her rediculousness for a short time. I do believe she is afraid of me. It may be for the reasons that you stated. I know she hates me just because I exist, I know she would hate anyone in my position. I believe she wants my H back and never wanted to split with him. "I hate you, don't leave me" crap. I did block her on Facebook and I've only had text communication with her twice. Once was to tell her what I thought of her behavior as a woman and a mother. That I did from his phone by identifying myself. The second time, I did it from my own phone and said here is my phone number. If you feel the need to bash me, you no longer have to go through my H to do it. Here I am. To which she replied, never text me again weirdo. It seemed to me that she was using bashing me as a way of attempting to bond with him. My perception was that she thought he wasn't telling me what she was saying about me, that he and I were not sharing these experiences and that by bashing me she had something with him that he and I didn't have. Very strange. I was concerned if I didn't reach out to her that his non-communication would feed into her delusion. I look at this as a delusion. I feel like if we don't occasionally say you are acting like a crazy person, we are allowing her delusion to continue and thereby responsible on some level. And there's the problem. Why should I feel responsible for her insanity? Because she has made all of this my fault. I think I feel guilty because I can't help her.
I believe that the more time I spend with the boys and the better they think of me, the harder this is going to get. I was once able to empathize with her and show her compassion. The more time the boys are with us, the more I want to run her over with my car. LOL the text messages that she sends after we take the boys back to her suggest that she is questioning them about their weekend with us. Questioning them at the very least.
So are you suggesting I ignore her demand to not be on the property by just staying in the vehicle?

[worriedStepmom]

I think that you and she got off on the wrong foot.  It's probably not going to get a whole lot better, but it's in your power to make sure it doesn't get a whole lot worse. 

My H and I have been together for 7 years. (We didn't learn about BPD until last year.)  The first year, I tried to be friendly with uBPDmom.  I tried to correct her delusions about me.  I finally completely disengaged a few years ago.  When she texts me, I send a standard "please only communicate with me if there is an emergency involving SD11 and actual emergency response personnel."   I never ever ever initiate any communication.

She constantly says nasty things about me to H.  It's his job to set boundaries around that. It's not necessarily his job to defend me.  At times, I have to ask him not to tell me what she says, because it makes me mad and stressed.

Most importantly, neither of us EVER ever ever say anything negative about uBPDmom to SD11.  uBPDmom has an official diagnosis of anxiety, so we do talk about how mom's brain works differently than ours, and mom interprets things differently than we might.  We don't usually explicitly say that she's wrong (I've used "confused" a lot), although now that SD is older, mom occasionally does something unacceptable, and we talk about that.  SD is in therapy and working on boundaries, so we can always tie events back to that - learning experiences for SD rather than mom-bashing sessions.

You are too new of a stepmom to be able to do that.  It took over a year of 50-50 custody for SD to trust me and my perceptions of events...and she was 4 at the time, so she was a pretty trusting kiddo.  For middle-school aged children, you might have to wait longer.

I'm sure that everything we do or say makes its way back to uBPDmom.  However, if we're being good people doing good things, then it doesn't really matter.

For the sake of the kids, work on ways to alleviate your stress and ways to keep your opinions to yourself.  Disengage from the drama.  It might be a good idea to get therapy for yourself - this is a whole new rollercoaster, and it can help to get an outside perspective.

[GaGrl]

My stepchildren were adults when my DH and I married. DH and his ex (uNPD/BPD) had separated 14 years before, but the ex still was upset that DH was no longer available to her. Then their daughter and granddaughter moved in with us, and the ex showed herself due to jealousy over the grandaughter. By working together with the daughter (who had realized the issues with her mother were dysfunctional but needed support to navigate through to something livable), we came to where we are today. It has been 13 years!

Just as Worried states above, my existence triggers the ex. I have learned much about boundaries that protect my household and relationship, and my DH handled all communications that might involve his ex. At this point, that is usually minor things such as graduation activity for the grandaughter, etc.

Ex does not call our house not have access to my cell. She abused that. When we lived nearby, she did not come to our house -- she had abused that.

Unless my stepdaughter or granddaughter brings her up and wants to talk, the ex isn't in my life at all anymore.  In the first few years of our marriage, she seemed to be omnipresent -- and none of us were willing to live like that.

[livednlearned]

I was once able to empathize with her and show her compassion. The more time the boys are with us, the more I want to run her over with my car.

AriesD, it sounds like she is really getting under your skin. Not surprising, given how challenging BPD behaviors are. Fortunately, you have choices about how much to engage.

Part of not participating in exchanges or communicating with her is to give yourself some peace. It doesn't sound like you two can interact without it escalating and that has to take a toll, not to mention it can only make things worse for the kids to have a dysregulated mom.

What do you think about giving yourself the time and space to take care of yourself? Going to an exchange even with a non-disordered spouse can be hard. For someone prone to emotional reactivity, it's like throwing gas on flame.

You can't win a pissing match with a skunk, as my dad likes to say. If you are escalating things, you're losing...

[AriesDragon]

Thank you all for your suggestions and insights. It is greatly appreciated.

[Panda39]

Hi AriesDragon,

You are not alone in your frustration, I arrived here one angry Panda.  My Significant Other (SO) has an undiagnosed BPD ex-wife (uBPDxw) and they share 2 daughters.  The girls were 15 & 11 when I arrived on the scene almost 9 years ago, they are now young ladies of 18 & 22, I discovered BPD about 5 years ago.

I met my SO during his separation as he and his wife were going through an awful high conflict divorce that ultimately took 2 years to get through. In the beginning his ex had primary custody, my SO was an every other weekend dad.

His wife was running a parental alienation campaign, having the kids go through their father's things, his text messages, and even the refrigerator and reporting back to her.  Throwing a phone into the couch became a visit to court for child abuse. (everything unfounded there). Then there was her neglect of their daughters, pulled D15 out of her first year of High School to do on-line school at home...didn't happen 0.0GPA which later came back to bite D15 when it came college time.  She couldn't get D11 to the dentist for a toothache, wouldn't let dad do it, for 3 months! Finally my SO took the bull by the horns found a dentist who was open on the weekend and got her in.  There mother was evicted 3 different times and the girls lost any belongings they had at her house...  Then there was my frustration with my SO and his response to what was going on, lots of "rational" conversations, soft boundaries, where was his backbone!  

I was sucked into this toxic soup and was always asking why, and getting more angry, I really was toxic angry.  So I arrived here the toxic angry Panda angry at them all, my SO for not handling things the way I thought they should have been, his daughters for being brutally hurtful to their father, and his ex that was in many ways the puppet master behind it all.

So I found a place to vent and I did (boy did I), eventually some more experienced members steered me to information, I got a good understanding of BPD, they made me think when they asked questions, and gave advice from their own experience.

I realized what was behind a lot of my anger was my desire to control everyone in this crazy BPD circus and I couldn't.  It's hard to realize this about yourself...yes I am Panda and I'm a control freak     So realizing this was the start of letting go of my anger.  When I was venting about mom's treatment of their daughter's Matt one of the old members here advised me to focus on the girls and not on their mother (one of the best pieces of advice ever!  :wee Okay, yeah I could see the benefit of that and I could do that, helped me let go of more anger.  My SO and I also started having honest conversations about how we were feeling and made a conscious effort to focus on us as a couple, anger shrunk some more.  The toxicity level was going way down.  When the divorce was finally completed the conflict began decreasing too.

My SO wanted 50/50 custody and ended up with more, mom had the girls 3 weekends a month, they were with dad the rest of the time.  In 2015 the girls' mom crossed some lines with them and they both voted with their feet to move in with dad full-time.  D22 went no contact (NC) with her mother at that time and D18 went low contact (LC) mostly phone calls/text messaging.  When that happened our interaction with their mom went way down.

I also have no contact with my SO's ex, he talks with her when needed.  I also agree with the others try and keep the conflict down (I know this is not easy) take the high road particularly in front of the kids.  I know 4 minutes late and mom having a meltdown is stupid and you know it's stupid, and she likely would have complained if you called anyway. That said the fear of abandonment is at the heart of BPD and it's irrational...just like her reaction to bringing the kids home 4 minutes was irrational...she may have thought you were keeping her kids and it's irrational.  She has a mental illness one thing to learn is that she will not necessarily react as a mentally healthy person will and part of BPD is difficulty controlling her emotions, so in a weird way her behavior was completely natural for someone with BPD.

Have you done any reading on BPD?  I found it really helpful to get a good grounding in what it is and what I was facing.  I'd be happy to suggest some books if your interested.

I'm really glad you found us and decided to jump in and post.  All of us step-parents are in a really specific role and it's really nice to find others that get it.

Hang in there,
Panda39

[AriesDragon]

The book called understanding borderline mothers was highly recommended by an article that I read. This is the beginning of my journey into borderline.
Panda, reading your experience touches home. It's like watching the last year of my life through a window.
I would really like to eliminate myself from the whole situation. Often times I have talked to my significant other about ending our relationship because the stress was too much for me. I wish I did not have to be present for the exchange of the kids. I wish I didn't have to have any part in the text messages or correspondences from her. My significant other seems to suffer from a kind of post-traumatic stress reaction when it comes to the X. He completely shuts down and doesn't hear or see what is happening. I feel she depicts him to be a neglectful father because he does not respond to her. I helped him to right rational basic messages and I helped him to set boundaries. She had become so good at manipulating him that he didn't even know what was normal anymore. I know I'm not supposed to serve as the role of the therapist. I am a rescuer. Though I didn't know, never felt he needed rescuing until we were already deep into the relationship and more came to light. I will continue to read up on borderline and I will do my best to stay out of things wherever I can. Unfortunately no one else wants to ride with him down and back to do the exchanges because it is a three-hour round-trip ride.

[GaGrl]

The anger is very real, as Panda describes. The PTSD is also very real. The more I saw and more I realized how DH responded based on 30+ years of exposure to his ex's rages, blaming and manipulations, the angrier I got. How could she not appreciate this brilliant, creative, strong man? And by then, DH was having stress-related health issues...and we know where the stress came from.

I got great support here. I learned so much about boundaries and what I could and could not control. I let go of the anger. Our focus is our marriage, and we have found that the stronger we are as a coupke, the better off all the family members are.

Is your SO in therapy? It could really help him with the PTSD.

[AriesDragon]

He's not in therapy. Unfortunately, his financial situation was devastated by their life together. She is the one who introduced him to heroin. She is the one who would put the needle in his arm, even after he tried to kill himself by using drugs that he had traded a gun for. He was charged with illegal distribution of a firearm and was on probation. She would put the needle in his arm and then as soon as he did something she didn't like or would not do what she wanted, she would threaten to call his probation officer. One day he decided to buy drugs for himself because he was only afforded what she would allow him. She was notified before he even got home. She had the po waiting for him when he got home. He spent a few months in county jail, all the while she trashed him to family, friends and kids. She called the police and had him arrested, while she was an active addict herself, but managed to tell others that he had chosen drugs over his children. He's clean now. She is still an active addict.
I really had no idea what I was getting into. I'm glad I didn't. I love this man, but if I had known how difficult this was going to be, I would have made a different choice. This woman is every irrational desire to act out that I have ever had unchecked. She has given herself the permission and entitlement to do or say whatever she feels or pleases. Things that each of us every day have to manage and work through, she is allowed by some strange force to just be a disgrace to women. I have been actively working through the resentment that I feel toward my significant other for bringing this into my life. I resent him for not protecting me from the disease that he seems to be immune to. I have said to him on different occasions, will you just handle that please? He can't understand why I allow her to get under my skin. I'm so happy for him that he has that wall that goes up. Her words and actions are so unimportant or inconsequential to him that he is really unaffected by it. That's why she uses the children. The children are the only way she can get to him. I got angry because these beautiful little boys should not have the responsibility of having to pacify this woman. They should have the freedom to just be kids. They should have the freedom to love and be loved without fear of betraying their mother. Their little lives should not be dictated by a terrorist. I see the conflict in them when they are with us. They smile and laugh and play and catch themselves. I see that reminder come across their faces. They're not supposed to have a good time when they're with us. They're not supposed to like me. I see it in the moments when they are the happiest, momentarily a storm cloud rolls in until their attention is redirected elsewhere.

[worriedStepmom]

My husband irritates me sometimes because he doesn't respond to his ex about things that I think he should.  He doesn't want to engage with her, because no matter what he does, she takes it the wrong way - even if he's trying to be helpful.  After so many years of living with that toxicity, he freezes.   He doesn't see a problem and doesn't want to get therapy about it, and I respect that.

What I am learning is that
a) I can't want something more than he does.   He is unwilling to set hard boundaries because of past emotional terrorism, and I can't fix that.
b) His actions demonstrate his priorities.  I have to stop listening to what he says and watch what he does.  That stops me from being irritated if he says one thing and does another.
c) The consequences belong to H, not me.  I don't have to rescue him from them.
d) I should only do a full-scale intervention (generally, my version of a tantrum) when I am genuinely and imminently concerned about SD's health and safety.

You've got some additional complexity with his recovering from an addiction.  If you can afford therapy, I highly recommend you go.  It will help you to set boundaries within your own relationship to make sure you don't get sucked too far down the rabbit hole.  I think I will end up going back this year and getting some for myself.

[StillHopeful73]

I feel for you, AriesDragon. Your partner is very lucky to have you in his life, as are the boys.

I can't imagine how hard this type of situation would be as a stepparent. My partner of just over 2 years loathes my BPD ex with a passion. He will listen to me about my ex's latest antics but just gets angry and would like to beat him into a pulp. He is just waiting for my ex to do something that results in our daughter getting hurt and I have no doubt he will hunt him down if this happens. I keep telling him that violence isn't going to do anything and that in the end that would hurt our daughter more than help her in any way. The only reason he doesn't do anything is because of how it might affect her.

I can see how he would feel powerless. He just sees this man as a predator who is manipulative. He doesn't understand why I have tried to work through things with my ex and put up with his behavior for so long. I think, like you, if he knew what he was getting into when we started dating he might have thought twice.

And dealing with BPDs makes one feel insane at times with some of the things that they complain about or try to justify. Or even just with what they put the kids through. It's enough to make your head spin. In my case, I just keep trying to remind myself that it is something in his brain that he can't control. And that his horrible childhood that nobody should have to endure has contributed to who he is. It doesn't mean that I excuse his behavior or think he is allowed to treat anyone the way he does, but it does allow me to feel some empathy towards him.

[AriesDragon]

I am so grateful to have found this site. I was on a very dedicated spiritual path when my significant other and I met. I had gotten to a really good place in my life. I had gotten to a place spiritually where I thought the goings-on of the world around me wouldn't be able to bring me down.
 I believe meeting my significant other and falling in love with him was in my best interest. I believe this is another challenge to rise above and grow from. I believe this experience is meant to teach me and mold me and prepare me for my calling, whatever that may be. I am so grateful for all of your experiences. I'm so grateful to know that a man in my position would feel the same frustrations. I say that because, we women are often ridiculed for being over reactive and excessively emotional Etc.
 My significant other always says that there is nothing we cannot do together. This experience has the potential to strengthen our relationship as well as to strengthen our spiritual connection with the Divine individually.
 Thank you all so much for sharing with me. Thank you for the inspiration that you have given me. Thank you for the comfort that you have allowed me by having survived and conquered in this situation. May you be blessed.

[ForeverDad]

Four minutes?  My county used to state that there was a 30 minute window for the exchange time, though it was dropped in newer guideline packets.  Something like that could have reduced your his Ex's entitlement to rant and rage so much.

This is what my county's guideline says:

Parent 1 must provide transportation at the beginning of his/her parenting time and Parent 2 must provide transportation at the end of Parent 1’s parenting time.

This sort of arrangement works only when the two parents are cooperative.  Essentially the text translates to Ex brings the children to you and you return the children.  Of course, if Ex claims she can't or won't do the transportation to deliver the children, you're stuck driving both ways.  What can be done is to petition the court to change the order to (1) meeting midway or (2) the receiving parent does the pick-up.

If you do have a "meet mid-way" order then go midway and wait for the children.  What if she fails to bring the children?  Your choice to go ahead to her residence and pick them up and/or file Contempt of Court.  The when it come time to return, H (better with you but he takes the lead as parent) takes the children to the exchange point.  What if she doesn't appear after the exchange window ends?  Call her to ask when she will arrive.  If she refuses, then contact the local police, show the order (always have a copy with you!) stating H has done his part and wants a report documenting her failure to come.  Then H can decide to return home with the children.  She would rant and rage of course but he followed the order.  (If they go to school in her area, then that is certainly a complication unless the kids are on spring or summer break.)

Also, her demand that you not come on the property can be addressed too.  H's response can state that going forward she has to pick up — and drop off — the children at a neutral location such as a sheriff's office or public area.  Or he can go to court and have the travel and exchange details modified.

Last thought... Never ever comment on whatever hand motions may have occurred that day.  Don't ever 'gift' her any ammunition against you.  (And court can't force you to testify against yourself.  What a laugh to imagine her complaining to court about something as minor as a hand motion!)  Sure, she can rant and rage endlessly to whomever and whenever but never volunteer validation.

The members here have "been there, done that".  I'll add that in most cases we who have faced high conflict relationships simply can't succeed when trying to walk an accomodating middle path.  With BPD and other acting-out (Cluster B) personality disorders, being super reasonable and using reason — such as JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) — doesn't work.  The other person just can't or won't listen, at least not for long or consistently.  Someone once explained it as there being too much emotional baggage from the past close relationship for the other to listen.

Best to limit communication to necessary parenting or schedule issues.  Even that will be hard.  Ignore the Blaming as best you can.  A thought about boundaries...  For a long time after I arrived here I thought boundaries were for the one misbehaving.  However, in time I learned that boundaries were for me, my ex rejected them, almost predictably.  How can that altered perspective help?

Limit conversations to necessary matters about (1) the children, (2) parenting schedule and (3) appropriate shared expenses such as child support, child care or daycare, etc.

That's where strong and consistent boundaries come in.  When I first arrived here, I was confused, because I knew my ex never respected my boundaries.  I learned that the boundaries were for me in determining how to respond to my ex.  This is a typical pattern:  "If you do or don't do ___ then I will do or not do ___."  For example, "If you rant or rage on the phone then I will hang up." or "If you rant or rage then I will take the kids and leave to a park, restaurant or movie until you have calmed down."  Frankly, your ex will never totally respect your consistent boundaries but over time it should reduce the incidents.

Be the parent with practical strategies and solutions.  Yes, your ex won't appreciate them, but over time it can be invaluable in court and with the various agencies.  Also, every time you're back in court be sure to attend prepared with the latest major issues and loopholes and their practical solutions.  Even have them printed up as a proposed modification to the order, you'd be surprised how that forethought will give incentive to the court and lawyers to jump on it as a fix and ex probably won't be able to convince the court otherwise.

[AriesDragon]

We ordered the book Understanding the Borderline Mother to educate ourselves. I know that there is no "right" way when it comes to her. I know that we must establish and maintain, reinforce those boundaries consistently. I know that I have to find coping methods to ward away the drama and negativity. I know that I can't change her. I know that he can't change her.
I know that I must focus more on us and our happiness and less on her attempts to destroy it.
Depending on the outcome of his upcoming support conference (the second in the last month since we were granted every other weekend, she is asking for another increase), we may petition for a custody modification. All the driving is putting more financial strain on us. If domestics won't balance that cost, we won't be able to continue doing all the transportation.
I think eventually the boys will want to live with us full time, but I'm new to them and they need time. We will cross that bridge when it comes. I will continue, the best I can, to do what I believe is the right thing and do no harm (to the best of my ability). I will work with my SO to have the distance from her that I need and still give him support when needed. There is the biggest challenge. I will try my best to protect my sanity.

[livednlearned]

I will try my best to protect my sanity.

 

Your goal might be monitoring your emotions when it comes to her. How you feel when she's not impacting you or your loved ones. Notice what happens when you get involved directly. Make your own peace of mind a priority and let your partner know that it's better if only one of you is affected so you can be a catcher's mitt for him when he's putting himself back together. If her actions are making you feel aggressive in response, then you just got hijacked into the dynamic.

You can be the emotional leader and demonstrate healthy habits for your SO (and the kids) by learning to take care of yourself. That might mean you agree to drive with SO but get out before the exchange and spend some time in a mall or coffee shop doing something enjoyable so you are doing something fun for yourself.

I have a bit of a fixer personality, and am a recovering codependent. I now look at it like I'm in charge of creating a healthy environment. It's not my responsibility to take care of adult problems. All I can do is make sure the environment is validating and model good boundaries and self-care. I let out my sails a little when it's emotionally safe but when there are BPD dynamics in play I change tacks.

If she gets under your skin, pull back. It might be hard for your H in the short term but it's the more sustainable way to handle things in the long term.