Heartbroken and needing urgent help, is it really over this time? Continued.

[Sufferingsoul34]

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=335554.new#new

Topic continued from this thread.

I received this last night from my wife:

I’m angry at how our marriage was. It makes me so upset that I felt so hurt the only way to deal with it was to hurt you back. It was unhealthy for so long and I’m angry that it didn’t work out. I feel like we wasted so much time, years, on a life neither of us was honest in. I hope that we can learn from what we’ve done and not to do it our future partners because I definitely don’t want to hurt or be hurt to that extent again. It hurts me because we could have been so happy, sincerely happy not just superficially. I hope I find that someday because I want to love someone and feel like I’d do anything in the world for them. I know you say you loved me a lot, but had you loved me more than anything you wouldn’t have kept me in the dark from so many things for so long. I hope the best for you as well. Happy Easter.

Any idea what she is thinking here? Just trying to pass the blame on to me? Obviously she is still hurting and I’m still in the ‘black’ zone.

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[once removed]

it sounds like shes grieving the marriage.

and it sounds like there is a fair amount of blame there, too.

how do you feel about? how do you want to respond, if at all?

[Sufferingsoul34]

At the moment for my own sanity I feel like I don’t want to respond to it. I don’t know if the marriage is fully over or not as she has said this kind of thing in the past then wanted me back weeks later.

But then I need to think to myself, if that what I really want for the rest of my life... I worked on myself a lot to become stronger and felt like I would be able to deal with her latest outburst, but I was wrong. I am trying not to feel guilty for anything as deep down I tried to so hard for the marriage to work and to be patient with her, but she has this smart way of passing blame onto me and it still gets to me.

I don’t think I will respond at this time as I don’t think it’ll help anything if her mind is currently thinking in such negative ways about me and guess I’ll jist have to wait to see what comes next.

[once removed]

that makes sense. its pretty blame-y, and i dont think it requires a response.

[Sufferingsoul34]

Ok quick update on my life... I moved into my seaview apartment and met a few new friends but it’s still so hard... I feel like I will never get over my wife and kind of still want her back too.

Her last messages have said this
I hope you feel good about leaving the country. Leaving me to deal with all our stuff to sort. How easy for you it must be. Take a suitcase and have fun. I still haven’t rented the apartment, you know why? Because I work 40 hours a week and take 6 classes. And on top of that I’ve been moving, cleaning, selling, sorting, AND showing the apartment to people on a daily basis. Must be nice to be you and leave everything to me. Now my me and my mom have to pay it until it’s rented. I hope you sleep well knowing how burdened you’ve left me.

Do you plan on paying any part of the rent for May?

What do you want me to do with all your stuff? It’s packed in 4 suitcases at my moms house. I will donate it if you don’t plan on getting it, my mom doesn’t have space for it.

Why are you ignoring me?

I wish you would have been honest with me. We could have worked. We could have been so happy together. If you had been honest with me I would have been honest with you.

I haven’t responded to any of them as I don’t know what to say just yet, but i kind of want her back... but I know she is still blaming me for everything that happened in the marriage. Maybe she is feeling like she doesn’t want to take the blame for her affairs and is making it out to be my fault...? I don’t know... head is very messed up at the moment I feel like I’m going back to square one as I feel lonely a lot of the time in my new place. Any insight on her messages would be great as I’ve no idea what to respond? Was thinking to write back saying yes we could have been so happy and we were a lot of the time, but you hold so much resentment to so many people in life and feel as though spending their money/cheating on them to get back at them is the correct thing to do. Which it isn’t. I haven’t sent this but something along those lines is going through my head at the moment.

[Ozzie101]

That's tough, Sufferingsoul. It does sound like she's putting the blame on you. Not uncommon in pwBPD.

Was thinking to write back saying yes we could have been so happy and we were a lot of the time, but you hold so much resentment to so many people in life and feel as though spending their money/cheating on them to get back at them is the correct thing to do. Which it isn’t

Honestly? I think saying something like this would just fan the flames. It's turning the blame around on her and even if what you say is correct, it's unlikely to be received well. She's in a blaming mode. And pwBPD tend to react VERY strongly when blame is turned around on them, even in a gentle way. In my opinion, if you were to send this to her, it would probably just make it worse.

Personally, I'd ignore the blaming. Or, if you feel a response is necessary, respond in a validating way ("I understand. If I felt like I'd been left to deal with things by myself, I'd be upset too." or "Honesty is important in a relationship") Not agreeing with her. Not taking on any blame you don't deserve, just acknowledge her feelings. But, again, you don't have to respond to those statements.

As for the questions about rent and your stuff, do you know what you want to do there?

[once removed]

resist the urge to JADE or directly respond to the blame parts of the letter.

i think there would be nothing wrong with indicating that you want the marriage to work, especially if you do. its important to be clear and consistent about, whether it is resolvable or not.

additionally, or alternatively, i think these are questions you can respond to directly:

Do you plan on paying any part of the rent for May?

What do you want me to do with all your stuff?

[Sufferingsoul34]

Yeh that’s a very good point. I think that’s progress on my side that I’ve learnt not to respond right away and give a few days to think about what to say, rather then responding and regretting it so thanks for the reminder.

I basically brought all of my stuff back that I needed to bring back, the rest is just small items on the grand scale of things so she can pretty much do what she wants with it. As for the rent, I have a new apartment now which is costing me a fortune for six months. So I really cannot afford to pay rent there too, ive been gone a while so it seems strange how they haven’t rented it yet as it’s her mums basement and the demand for a place that nice and cheap in the area usually goes in one day, so I think they just haven’t had time or haven’t bothered or more likely she hasn’t told her family what’s happening between us so she hasn’t wanted to face her Mum...

Not quite sure how to work this with her as the rent question was a couple of weeks ago now... last time around 6 months ago she sent the question about my stuff when she had packed them before and I showed up at the door the same day as I got a flight back to the states and she didn’t know... maybe she was hoping I’d do the same this time I don’t know...

[once removed]

one thing i forgot to mention in my previous reply is that i wouldnt go putting your heart too much on the line in a response...

on one hand the "we could have worked" stuff could be a combination of blame, bait, and regret, not necessarily opening the door.

on the other hand, people with BPD traits are very afraid of rejection, so it could be a sort of opening of the door, with plausible deniability. its hard to say.

if you want to say something like "while i havent been perfect, i was and always have been committed to the relationship and making things work", and if you want to keep that door open, i think thatd be fine.

but why ignore the logistical questions? BIFF is a great formula for the "just business" stuff.

[Sufferingsoul34]

I think I ignored those questions as I was trying to focus on myself and not be distracted by anything she had to say. With moving to my new apartment I just wanted to focus on that but now I kind of regret it.
I am thinking of saying this:
‘While I haven’t been perfect, i tried to be a great husband for you and I was and have always been committed to the marriage and making it work.’
Thoughts? Think I should mention anhtbing about the logistical questions? She sent them 1 week and 2 weeks ago now so I was thinking maybe just to leave that out for now and keep the message short and sweet but I don’t know.

[once removed]

‘While I haven’t been perfect, i tried to be a great husband for you and I was and have always been committed to the marriage and making it work.’
Thoughts? Think I should mention anhtbing about the logistical questions? She sent them 1 week and 2 weeks ago now so I was thinking maybe just to leave that out for now and keep the message short and sweet but I don’t know.

i might say "i have tried to be the best husband i could be. while i havent been perfect, i was and always have been committed to the marriage and making it work".

subtle difference.

i would address the logistical questions. regarding your belongings, i would say what you told us: that they are not significant, that if it would be easier to dispose of them, to do so.

can you better explain the rent situation to me? is your name on it, is there any obligation on your end?

[Sufferingsoul34]

We were renting her mums basement apartment. Her mom lives upstairs so there’s no. I paid up until the end of April even though I wasn’t going to be there. Seems strange they haven’t been able to rent it as an apartment like that usually has queues of people for it. Unless they haven’t been bothered to rent it out. So from my side there is no obligation in terms of a contract, I was even paying the month I wasn’t there.

[once removed]

have you responded?

[oftentimes]

Hi there! I feel for you on this one. I know a lot of people are suggesting to not address the blame game going on here and I am certainly not saying that isn't good advice. But I also know that there is never really 'good advice' that others can give in these situations - we can only speak to our own experiences in a way that might help you sort out what's best for you.

When it comes to my partner blaming me for everything (which happens often) or when it comes to him saying harmful things because he's feeling hurt/rejected, one thing that has really helped me is to remember that those words are often a projection of how he feels about himself and his role in our relationship. For example, when he starts blaming me for all of our problems, I know it is because deep down, he does feel guilty and responsible for them - he feels ashamed and unsure of how to change things so that comes out as blame. During his last blow up, he came to over to get his things with his mom (I own the house) bc he needed a cool down period. In addition to taking the tv he bought me (I guess that means it was 'his'), he took a lot of stuff he knew I'd miss. He also left me a note that said:

"You were never the love of my life. Only a good option. I tried to work it out with you, but you are too blind to see how you've hurt me and destroyed us. F*** yourself."
I waited until he contacted me (and made clear he was moving toward the 'I feel guilty / am sorry' phase of the cycle. He texted and said he was hurt and angry with me and didn't know what to do. Here's how communication proceeded:
1) I validated his hurt, anger, and confusion: "I know you are hurt, angry, and confused and I'm sorry that you are in so much pain right now.
2) I reminded him of my support: I love you and I want to support you in a way that is healthy for both of us.
3) I addressed the projecting: "I got your note. I was wondering if this was actually how you felt about me or if that perhaps you think that's how I feel about you. Do you think that I don't really love you and that you are just a good option for now?"
4) He thought for a second, started crying, and said yes. I then asked if he felt responsible for all of our relationship issues. Again, yes.
5) I validated how painful it must be to think your partner feels that way. I reminded him that he wasn't just a good option and that frankly, if anything, he was a bad option given how difficult things had been ( I said this with humor, he laughed, I know my relationship, not everyone would respond like this, so don't assume it's the way to go with you).
6) I told him that he wasn't an "option" of any kind. That he was the great love of my life and father of my child and that I was with him because I loved him and I believed in him.
*I didn't get into who was actually to blame. Frankly, I dont think that matters and I think it's unhealthy. But it was important to address the fact that it was likely him feeling that way and validate how painful that must be for him.

This dialogue moved us out of the splitting phase where we were then able to talk about things with our couples counselor.

Hope you've been able to find some peace and joy through this.

[Sufferingsoul34]

@once removed. I had a message from her yesterday saying my name’...’ that was all she said. I didn’t respond for a couple of hours then I did respond and took the advice you gave me with the message I sent. It seems she had already blocked me on WhatsApp maybe because I hadn’t responded to the others or when she said my name I didn’t respond right away. No idea what to do now...? Maybe she is feeling complet abandoned by me as I didn’t respond, but why not block me from all sites. Do I send the same message to her Instagram as she hasn’t blocked me there only WhatsApp.

@Quotebox thank you so so much for all these tips and advice form your past experience. Will definitely be using this advice in the future.

[Sufferingsoul34]

Shall I send the same message to her Instagram/email? I feel as though she may feel I’ve completly abandoned her now but a random message saying my name was very confusing. Maybe it was her last ditch attempt to get my attention now she’s blocking me to see if this works. I feel as though she needs to see this message and obviously can’t read it if she blocked my number as the message doesn’t even go through.

[oftentimes]

In my experience, if they haven't blocked you from every possible avenue (I doubt that's an oversight) - they are hoping you pursue communication by leaving a door open. If everything is blocked the NC is in order. I can't tell you what's best, but if you feel like she needs to hear the message and she hasn't completely cut off communication, I'd go with your gut.

Keep in mind that even if you don't get the conciliatory response you're hoping for, it may not be that you said the wrong thing or shouldn't have reached out. It means she is hurting and confused. If you send the message and get something like "go away" and then get blocked from all communication channels, respect the space she is asking for and turn your attention to your own healing (obviously, we should be doing this anyway, but esp. if you're in the discard phase.)

[once removed]

do you have a more formal avenue? email, snail mail?

[Sufferingsoul34]

I was wondering why I was only blocked from that... I do have email so maybe I will just email her what I wanted to say on that and wait for a response as my gut is definitely telling me I need to tell her this stuff. No idea what her response will be but time will tell I guess.

[Sufferingsoul34]

Ok I am thinking of sending this to her email:

This message didn’t go through on WhatsApp. The items that I left at your mums are not significant items and are replaceable so if they are in the way then feel free to do as you please with them. I completely agree that honesty is important in any marriage. I have tried to be the best husband that I could be, while I haven’t been perfect I have always supported you as much as I could and have always been committed to the marriage and making it work.
I hope that your finals went well and (the dog) is doing ok.

Do I add at the beginning that I haven’t been ignoring her I just needed space? Or leave that out? I think I’ve been validating in the message as you both said. Also it opens the door that I don’t want this to end so ball is kind of in her court. Even if she sends abuse back then at least I know she knows. Think I should add/change anything or all good?

Thank you!

[oftentimes]

Not sure if you sent this yet - if so, let us know how it goes! If you haven't sent it, one thing to consider adding (and again, this is only a suggestion, you know your relationship/partner best), but in my experience, if I only talk about how the experience is affecting me / or what I've been doing to work to support him, it falls on deaf ears. Starting with something that validates what he is going throough is critical in getting through to him.
-I know you're in pain
-I know you're trying hard to get well and make sense of things and that this is really painful and confusing.
-I am so sorry that you are in such pain and I want nothing more than for you to be well and find peace. I know my support may not have been what you needed, but this is confusing for me too and although I'm trying my best, I may not always get it right. But I will always be here for you and I will always love you.

Something of that nature. No worries if the message has been sent though, perhaps just something to keep in your toolbox for future communication.

*It's tough to be so focused on someone and remember that they really aren't capable of thinking about us when they aren't well. It's painful too. But they are so consumed with their inner turmoil, that we do not really exist to them - or we do, but only as a means to project how they are feeling onto something 'real.' When my partner read 'Get me Out of Here' by Rachel Reiland for the first time, he was blown away by how much he could relate to her and her story. I read it too and we talked about it together. It was really helpful. It really broke my heart though when he told me "You know what I just realized? When reading this book, she talks about her husband who stood by her a lot, but I actually dont think I really absorbed any of what she was saying about her husband. It was almost like he didn't exist despite him being a central part of the story. I could only focus on her." - I'll never forget him saying that to me. It made me realize that no matter how strong and supportive we are and no matter how much we actually are able to help them on their healing journey, our partners may not or may never see us as significant in the process. When they are in pain, we (as complex, whole human beings with our own feelings etc.) do not exist. That hurts. A lot.

[Ozzie101]

I think that's really good advice, oftentimes.  Important to always keep that in mind.

I, too, have found that if I include acknowledgement of my husband's pain and own up to my own share in the problems, it goes a LONG way.

[Sufferingsoul34]

Amazing advice thank you. Luckily I hadn’t sent it yet.

Just changed it to this what do you think?

This message didn’t go through on WhatsApp. The items that I left at your mums are not significant items and are replaceable so if they are in the way then feel free to do as you please with them.

I am sorry if you’re in pain about the marriage. I want nothing more than for you to be able to trust and to find peace and I completely agree that honesty is important in any marriage. I have tried to be the best husband that I could be, while I haven’t been perfect I have always supported you as much as I could and have always been committed to the marriage and making it work.
I hope that your finals went well and (the dog) is doing ok.

[once removed]

i think its a good note.

nah, i wouldnt mention ignoring/needing space in this case. at most you might say sorry for the delayed response.

[Sufferingsoul34]

Ok thank you. I have sent that exact note now. Before I sent it she sent me this: I want to have a conversation with you. I'm not sure why you're ignoring me. I want to talk. Whether we want to stay married or not, we have to talk through things. I can't do everything on my own, divorce or not. But I won't keep reaching out to you when you're not answering the messages you view. This is the last time I try to reach out because whatever happens, I need you to do anything. I hope you're doing well.
but I sent it anyway so let’s see

[Sufferingsoul34]

Update. I didn’t get a response directly to my email. But now I’ve just received a message on WhatsApp asking if I am going back to her state where we were living? And also she said the dog we have is losing weight (he’s really old) and I mentioned that I hope he’s ok in the last message. My question is I’m not sure how to respond to this... I have an apartment in England now for the next 5 months so do I tell her this? I feel if I went back there now it would just be the same cycle yet again and I really need her to want to get help before I even consider it.

[ndelush79]

Hello sufferingsoul34. I wanted to reach out to you as I am going through a similar situation as you with my pwBPD.

I am truly deciding if I should stay or if I should go as I am finding dealing with a pwBPD is truly hard and sometimes I feel like I am not strong enough to deal with the BPD and I feel I am only making it worse for the pwBPD.

My question to you is, how long have you been with your pwBPD and do you feel like you are strong enough to deal with it for the rest of your life? It is apparent you love her very much as do I love my pwBPD very much, but I know my pwBPD is NOT going to get any help and I either have to be ok with them not willing to get help and stay or walk away. I know we can't "fix" them, so it's just a matter of "putting up" with the BPD.  May I ask where you stand on this?

[Sufferingsoul34]

I have been with her for over 7 years and married for 6 years now. I am not sure if am strong enough to endure the pain she puts me through. She’s like a drug, good times amazing but then bad times literally destroy everything about me and it takes a lot of time to recover.

My wife had got help before. Not for BPD but for anxiety as she sees it. She doesn’t know that I spoke to her therapist when I made the appointment saying I think she has BPD. He has since given me therapy sessions and also says that she does have it but he didn’t get to the stage of telling her it yet. Well she stopped therapy after a few months as she said she was too busy so he definitely won’t have chance now unless she goes back.

I think you’re right when you say putting up with them. At this moment I am having a lot of time away from my BPD. Minimal contact and trying to work on myself. I was also doing this when with her thinking her next break down would make it easier if I’ve worked on myself but it was actually the same which makes it even harder but I guess it’s all about taking things personal. Not sure how much more I can take of it and whether it’s truly over now.

Literally as writing this I’ve just received a text from her saying ‘Wana go to Vegas?’ Completely out of the blue...

[Harri]

This thread reached the maximum limit and has been locked and split.  Part 3 is here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=337030.0