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Author Topic: I shouldn't have shared my feelings.  (Read 1452 times)
loyalwife
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« on: June 07, 2019, 02:03:28 PM »

 Cursing - won't cause site restrictions at Starbucks (click to insert in post)  Paragraph header (click to insert in post) DON'T SHARE YOUR FEELINGS WITH A PWBPD
 
     Here I was, cruising along, getting along and basically 'forgetting' who I was married to (that statement in itself is loaded), I failed again. My pwBPD husband had a friend over last night. They had a few beers and were having a great time, talking guy stuff; so I gave them space and did my own thing. Occasionally I'd walk out for a drink of water etc., and as I did my husband would remark "Oh, she didn't hear that. haha." or "She doesn't know the half of it"...I think you get my drift. It was obvious that he was bragging to his buddy that he didn't have to include me on decisions he makes like expensive cars or expensive equipment ($22,000 speakers), because, heh, it's for his business and it shouldn't be any of my business. I knew what he was referring to, and went for a walk with my dog to clear my head. Asking myself all those questions as to why I felt as though I was a laughing stock of the conversation. I'm sure he was just bragging to his bud that his wife didn't give him 'grief' about buying what he wanted.  At the moment I am in school, not bringing in money and have never felt that it was my business. I still don't. It's just when I am made to feel as though I'm stupid that it hurts my feelings.
     Later last night when he wanted me to hear the new speakers, I sat down after bringing in some cheese/crackers and a glass of wine for us. He knows when I am bothered and pressed me for what was on my mind. So, I opened up and told him that I had heard a few expressions that made me feel as I did. I could see his face change (uh-oh), and he immediately became a turtle, wanting to know exactly what the sentence he said was and when and why. I couldn't give him a distinct answer and could only say that bits and pieces of what I heard. I explained that it was my feelings and perhaps I heard it in the the wrong context. At that point it was being blown out of proportion and he was agitated.  He slept on the couch and today has just said "get away and leave me alone."
     It's perfectly alright for him to let me know when I have gone over the line with him, but it's not okay for me to stick up for myself. I just don't get it. Does this mean that for the rest of my life, I can't share when I'm hurt or want clarity? Will it instantly mean it's his feelings? Damn it.  They are my feelings and I have a right to feel.  I don't have the ability though to share with him.
     The last time I saw my therapist, and explained that I was in school for my Masters in Psychology, she said that as I progressed I may find it difficult to accept some of my husbands problems. She knows what I'm up against, and when she said that I knew she could see the change coming. It's not him that has changed, it's me. Before he asked me what was going on, I knew that it was tricky to say anything. I am not surprised at the reaction. It is the way he always reacts.
     The story just gets repeated. I'm left by him again. Maybe he's not asking for a divorce, or changing locks or driving to California, but he has shut me out because I shared my feelings. Can I live for the rest of my life, without sharing my life with him? He said that I ruined his excitement of his new speakers and that I am just jealous of them. Huh? That for the rest of his life, they will be marked by my conversation. lame. What was meant as an intimate conversation has been made into 'us arguing'. Over my feelings?
     After six years, I'm an old hand at the disengagement and know how it can supercharge at a high rate of speed if I fuel the fire. So, I remain separate from him today (maybe tomorrow etc.) I've stopped talking to friends and families about this as they don't understand why I stay.
     For today, I stay with the fact that I have my own feelings, but unlike him, know where they come from and where they belong and how to react.
     Right now I feel so alone with them.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 02:18:19 PM by Cat Familiar, Reason: preserving confidentiality » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2019, 02:23:40 PM »

You can share your feelings with us. We understand.   

The lightening speed with which they can shift the conversation from our feelings to their victimhood can be mind-boggling.

Even though my marriage is on an even keel right now, I don't feel like I can fully share my feelings without risking the sort of behavior you experienced. It's sad. It's frustrating. It just is.
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« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2019, 02:29:05 PM »

pwBPD and NPD seem to target nons who are open, honest and kind. Then they derive perverse pleasure from breaking them down emotionally, physically and psychologically.  

They are disordered people who, down inside, hate themselves.

As you know how to disengage, I am sure you know that BPDs cannot change unless they wish to.  We can develop coping skills if we choose to stay with them.  Sometimes this can be hurtful and angering.

Your H's comment about the speakers is very childish.  This sounds so much like something my own H would say.

My uBPD H also spends a lavish amount of money on himself (expensive cars and motorcycles) and his adult children (spending money, travel/vacations, other gifts), and gives me comparative trinkets for even special occasions.

"Sleeping on the couch" (that's also what my H does) is a form of withholding affection.  Please see this link to see if the emotional abuse described rings true with you.

https://www.doorwaysva.org/our-work/education-advocacy/the-facts-about-domestic-violence/types-of-domestic-violence/

pwBPD use a number of emotionally abusive tactics in order to make us feel bad, and lift themselves up as a result.  It's sick, I know, but they are sick people.   My H, on a regular basis (although not as frequently as he once did due to the way I myself deal with his dysregulations), makes divorce threats (or hints), and name calls.

I am glad you have the clarity of thought and personal sanity to deal with your H.    

« Last Edit: June 07, 2019, 02:42:12 PM by AskingWhy » Logged
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« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2019, 03:57:08 PM »

     Your 'advice' and kind words make the difference, and I'm happy that I can come here, heart heavy to those that understand.
      After a brief conversation, in which he says is circular (at least he knows), he says that I need to start lying about my feelings, and that if he asks me what is wrong, to lie. Apparently he would rather not know. I'd already stopped telling him every detail (ie. if I visit my son, I don't tell him. He can track me via the GPS in the car and know where I am though) because it only causes problems. My therapist considers these cover ups a way for me to keep peace, and prevent rages. The truth, my feelings don't have to be shared. This is a lesson I must learn, to not trust that his curiosity and questioning is from his heart, it will just be turned into argument. I agreed with him, and told him that in the future I wouldn't tell the truth. What in the ?
     Abuse. I don't like the word, and though it is what I live with when he decides he needs and outlet. Emotional and financial. They are both means of control to keep me off balance; which worked well at one time. I am working towards more independence financially and have my own credit cards etc. in my name like he has his own. I have never been on any account of his as he says he can't trust me, although at some magical time he will. It is okay, as I've accepted that I am not an equal partner to him, and that he needs to believe that it is all his. The emotional abuse is tougher. At times when he has taken off his wedding ring, returned gifts to me I have given him, it is all to hurt me. I've been punished by vacations being canceled  or him not talking to me for days. My son does not want him to know his phone number out of fear that he will harass him. My daughter is angry with me that I stay, after she has witnessed (via FaceTime) him yelling at me in a threatening way. If I were to treat him, like he does me, he would not stand for it. But I do. Abusers need victims. The cycle begins and ends the same way. He will act as though I am forgiven for my 'sins', take me to dinner, buy me things and tell me how beautiful I am. He keeps saying how much he loves me, is happy. But as you said, he hates himself and that is why he treats me like he does.
     I have a personal space that I call my own, my office. My aging 14 year old German Shepherd (sleeps all day) keeps me company. I spend a lot of time there, as it is comforting to disconnect from the insanity and find peace. My husband can feel as though he is punishing me all he wants, he's not.  It has gotten easier and easier for me to accept his behavior/mental illness as his problem, not mine.
     
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« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2019, 06:24:23 PM »

Fully understand, been down that path so may times!

I almost walking in the same boots as you with your H. Dare I voice my feelings! I've come to a stage where I've started taking less and less responsibility for her feelings and it bugs me when I fall for it. This goes for everyone now. I'm just so much more aware of things happening.

Yes it would've been nice to be able to share my concerns openly.
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« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2019, 08:32:35 PM »

I've been in your shoes, LW,

I tried to share my feelings with my ex, but either of two scenarios happened: 1) he seemed to listen and even be supportive sometimes, but later, during a dysregulation, my feelings would be used as ammunition to mock me, discount my emotional stability, or deemed "fake" and part of a master act he believed I had put on to manipulate him; 2) my feelings were immediately disregarded and the conversation became all about him and how I was selfish for having whatever feeling I had because it was keeping me from attending to his needs.

I just stopped sharing, because at best he didn't listen, and at worst, he used my feelings against me. It was very lonely, not feeling emotional intimacy or even emotional safety.

You agreed to lie to him about your feelings, because he thinks this is a plausible solution to not being able to meet your emotional needs. In other words, he asked for a solution that meets his needs and totally neglects yours. But if he can also tell when something is bothering you, do you think he will press you to tell the truth if you lie and say everything is fine, even if it was his idea for you to do that? It sounds like a setup for a no-win situation in the future.
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« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2019, 10:01:13 PM »

Excerpt
But if he can also tell when something is bothering you, do you think he will press you to tell the truth if you lie and say everything is fine, even if it was his idea for you to do that? It sounds like a setup for a no-win situation in the future

Bingo. The double bind, in which it's a no win regardless of the outcome. I think he's smart enough to know that even telling a lie will be tell tale. He's just plain cranky. 

I just got back from a trip to the doctors due to a rapid heart rate (125bpm) that went on for over an hour. My bp was 188/50. The doctors said it was Tachycardia and could be managed. I couldn't tell her it was due to a stressful event. My husband was a little quirked that I needed medical assistance, but did give me a ride. Yes, I drink way too much coffee, but it's the stress that is getting to me. I can't let him kill me. So, I've got the weekend to try to reduce the numbers and hopefully he will calm down. The doctor will be calling, and it may mean more meds for me. Meanwhile, he's happy as a camper it isn't him, and he's going to live to be 100.

His recent decision, "Let's get a dog that I like, because if you die and leave at least I won't be stuck with a dog I don't like." Now that's compassion. My response was "I don't want a dog. That settles that." (He then went on to name all the dogs he'd like to have. Talk about self centered. But then, that's who he is.


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« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2019, 12:36:28 AM »

Wow. Just "Wow."  Now that's some empathy at work.

As to long-term stress, every health situation my DH had was aggravated by stress -- high blood pressure, affect on an existing heart condition (WPW  -- irregular heartbeat), stomach upsets/sensitivity, diverticulosis, and (yes, thank you Ex), genital herpes.I

You really can't underestimate the long-term effects of the stress.
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« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2019, 10:53:59 AM »

I just got back from a trip to the doctors due to a rapid heart rate (125bpm) that went on for over an hour. My bp was 188/50. The doctors said it was Tachycardia and could be managed. I couldn't tell her it was due to a stressful event.

And you couldn't tell your doc that it was stress? I'm sure she figured it out on her own. But what else aren't you able to share with your medical provider?

I'm wondering what positives you get out of your relationship, if any.

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« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2019, 04:01:27 PM »


You really can't underestimate the long-term effects of the stress.

Make no mistake, stress can and will make you sick.  You need to place a mental and physical buffer against you and your H when he dysregulates.

If you don't protect yourself from stress, some serious illnesses will result.

See this link and scroll down to "danger signs."

https://www.drlam.com/adrenal-fatigue/lifestyle/toxic-relationships/
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« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2019, 05:40:29 PM »

 
     It's perfectly alright for him to let me know when I have gone over the line with him, but it's not okay for me to stick up for myself. I just don't get it. Does this mean that for the rest of my life, I can't share when I'm hurt or want clarity? Will it instantly mean it's his feelings? Damn it.  They are my feelings and I have a right to feel.  I don't have the ability though to share with him.
      

Sorry you had a rough experience.  

Would you like to work on strategies and techniques so you can share your feelings and counter his demands that you "share exactly" where and when?

My wife will sometimes ask and I always clarify that she is ready to listen, before even considering to share.   If she starts getting off track...I re-clarify who is the one sharing feelings.

The result of this is there has been much less feeling dumping by her and less demands for me to share as well.  There are times where she asks and I share and it's "almost" normal.  

It certainly hasn't been easy, but so far I think it's been worth the "energy" that I've dumped into this.

Oh..and I've also taken to mentioning what would be helpful from her so I can share.  Two goals with that.

1.  It lets her know
2.  It's a way for me to "test the temp".  If she reacts badly to that...no need to share.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2019, 01:28:16 AM »

Excerpt
Make no mistake, stress can and will make you sick.  You need to place a mental and physical buffer against you and your H when he dysregulates.

My vitals are back to normal. But tonight proved to be another time that he exploded over something small. I listened to him, and decided that there wasn't any need to respond. Apologizing isn't accepted, and all of sudden, he's in the bad space again. I'll be accused of arguing with him again, and I haven't said a word. So, my BPD Family, I have taken your advice, and am protecting myself. I'm in my office with my 14 year old German Shepherd.  It's quiet here, and I'm surrounded by memories on the walls, and a quiet breeze blowing in the window. I can find peace. I have peace, I am peace. I can stay here as long as it takes, for him to either come back to base or go to sleep.

No matter how many times this happens, it still makes me sad.
Excerpt
I'm wondering what positives you get out of your relationship, if any.
Abuse, regardless of the type, is still abuse. The first time I said that was three years ago. It sounded foreign at the time, but not today. I know what it is, and I can't deny that it happens. but verbal and financial abuse can't be seen. It hurts just the same. The things that he says, the way that he treats me when he is in one of his moods, is unjustifiable. I just don't want to argue with him anymore. I

When he is normal, we get a long, and our life seems hopeful.

I'm just finished trying to help him. He continues to go back into the muck and stir things up, and feel sorry for himself and belittle me. He called me out of the room a few minutes ago and said "Are you just going to stay mad?" I said,"I'm not mad about anything", which led him to say "Well, I'm really mad, and it makes me mad that it's just okay with you what you did". He goes on to tell me how much I have cost him over the time that he has known me. I used a credit card to get my hair done (my own funds have not been deposited) and it set him off. I try not to spend or ask him for anything and spend money I have from social security on things I may need, or for times I go out with friends. He now accuses me of never buying him anything. But that isn't the point. The point is, he has lost his cool, again and is having trouble reeling it in.

I'm back in my room, breathing in peace. I need to do this, to survive.
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« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2019, 11:29:24 AM »

We understand.    
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« Reply #13 on: June 14, 2019, 10:12:56 PM »

Day 2

     After a day of ghosting, my uBPDh went to get 'food' with me. We didn't speak while eating, and the ride home was long. Finally when we got home I asked him how long he would be mad at me. He went into a tirade of course, and ended up saying that he wished I could go away for a few weeks. We are back to him trying to get 'rid' of me. I stood up for myself this time and said "This is not okay for you to say to me. It's mean". He just looked at me. His eyes keep darting and he's got that crazed look. He keeps telling me that he was just fine before he met me and that all his problems started when I came into his life. But that is a lie. I know that difficulty in relationships have followed him his entire life. I asked him to forgive me, that forgiveness is key to happiness. He said,"I can't forgive, it's not something I can do". He then says "You want me to forget everything". But I didn't say forget, it was forgive. It's like talking to a wall when he is like this.
So, I'm back in my room.
He just texted me and asked me "Should I stay mad at you or go for Ice Cream?"  The cycling is crazy making.

I absolutely hate BPD. There, I said it.  It's so disruptive and destroys peace.

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« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2019, 01:26:48 AM »

He keeps telling me that he was just fine before he met me and that all his problems started when I came into his life. But that is a lie. I know that difficulty in relationships have followed him his entire life.

This seems common in pwBPD.  All they can see is what they feel in the moment.  No concept of past or future, and only the present.

My uBPD H tells me this often.  He blames me for his stress.  No his job.  Not the adult children who use him and emotionally blackmail him for gifts and money.  Not the uNPD X W who left him after 10 years of marriage after having an affair and taking the children.

It's good you understand you are not, in fact, the cause of all of your H's problems.   
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« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2019, 10:57:28 AM »

Thank you for this thread.  This is exactly my life.  It is valuable to know we're not suffering alone.  My BPDH is currently punishing me as well - the whole "why don't we communicate" but doesn't like what I communicate deal...  exhausting on all levels.  Married 27 years.  Getting worse.  So tired.  Please keep talking, I'm clinging now to your thread.
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« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2019, 12:30:09 AM »

Excerpt
Married 27 years.  Getting worse.  So tired.  Please keep talking, I

     Tired. I hear you. Me too, so tired, that I've stopped pretending that I have a normal marriage. When the craziness is 'over', and he seems to be leveling out, I still cannot relax. It comes from not wanting to be blindsided anymore, and surprised when the bottom falls out over nothing. I've decided that being on guard is a safe place to be. I think he senses this, and continually tells me that I am the only one for him, that he is happy with his life with me etc. I just nod and say "I'm glad". But this won't last, and he will return again to the dark side. This is what he said about it, that once he starts to go into the dark side, he has a hard time staying away. The longer he is there, the harder it is to return. As Twilight Zone that sounds, it is true. This is a familiar spot that in some weird way comforts him. But it isn't comfortable.
     I had an interesting conversation today with a woman, who shared with me that when her husband got angry with her (she said about once a month), she has grown to enjoy her time spent alone. I agreed with her. If you aren't suffering, then it is much less fun for them. When they see that your life isn't ending because they say so, they are baffled. I used to try to encourage him to come out of his rage, and hit my head against the wall so many times. Now, I just sit quietly in my room, take a walk, watch a movie; do the things that make me happy. It takes the fire away from him, and he is not as powerful. Making life miserable, just meant that I had a vacation. Is it easy to do?; no. But the key is not reacting to his behavior.
      Something I need to share is, that I am no longer seeing him as I once did. Not sure exactly what it is, but my feelings for him is changing. The things he said, the things he's done, is forever edged in my heart and mind.
       The price that a pwBPD pays for their behavior, is the loss of intimacy with those he is closest too.
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« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2019, 04:56:47 AM »

He knows when I am bothered and pressed me for what was on my mind. So, I opened up and told him that I had heard a few expressions that made me feel as I did. I could see his face change (uh-oh), and he immediately became a turtle, wanting to know exactly what the sentence he said was and when and why. I couldn't give him a distinct answer and could only say that bits and pieces of what I heard. I explained that it was my feelings and perhaps I heard it in the the wrong context. At that point it was being blown out of proportion and he was agitated.  He slept on the couch and today has just said  "get away and leave me alone."

Sounds like we share the same man!  That is how it goes with me as well.  I will go quiet after being hurt like that.  He then presses me to talk about what's bothering me.  He has to press quite hard these days because my experience is the same as yours.  He blows things out of proportion and also will say things like  "get away and leave me alone".  Another thing he likes to say is "if I am so bad then why are you with me?  There's the door.  F off."  That's how it becomes about HIM!

  It's perfectly alright for him to let me know when I have gone over the line with him, but it's not okay for me to stick up for myself. I just don't get it. Does this mean that for the rest of my life, I can't share when I'm hurt or want clarity? Will it instantly mean it's his feelings? Damn it.  They are my feelings and I have a right to feel.  I don't have the ability though to share with him.
That's how I feel too.  What it actually is, is that we are not allowed to be loyal and true to ourselves.  We must shut up and eat the sh!t they dish up with a smile on our faces and then ask for more.  I believe I have even told him that in the past, about eating the sh!t he dishes up.


 
  After six years, I'm an old hand at the disengagement and know how it can supercharge at a high rate of speed if I fuel the fire. So, I remain separate from him today (maybe tomorrow etc.) I've stopped talking to friends and families about this as they don't understand why I stay.
     For today, I stay with the fact that I have my own feelings, but unlike him, know where they come from and where they belong and how to react.
     Right now I feel so alone with them.
Been six years for me too.  I totally understand no longer sharing these things with family and friends.  I have stopped as well, only rarely will I say something.  This, I realize, has contributed to why I feel so isolated from the world and alone with my feelings.  All I really have is this board.
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« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2019, 04:59:54 AM »

     Tired. I hear you. Me too, so tired, that I've stopped pretending that I have a normal marriage. When the craziness is 'over', and he seems to be leveling out, I still cannot relax. It comes from not wanting to be blindsided anymore, and surprised when the bottom falls out over nothing. I've decided that being on guard is a safe place to be. I think he senses this, and continually tells me that I am the only one for him, that he is happy with his life with me etc. I just nod and say "I'm glad". But this won't last, and he will return again to the dark side. This is what he said about it, that once he starts to go into the dark side, he has a hard time staying away. The longer he is there, the harder it is to return. As Twilight Zone that sounds, it is true. This is a familiar spot that in some weird way comforts him. But it isn't comfortable.
LoyalWife, I could have written that.  My feelings exactly.  You expressed it well. 
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« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2019, 05:29:22 PM »

A case in point:

  "Can you come out here?", I go out to the studio; he points to a Batman ad and says "I'd like to go to that on Sunday?". It's a Batman movie from1989 that is replaying. I say me:"Sure, I like that theater". him:"What's wrong?" me:"Nothing is wrong. I don't necessarily like Batman movies, but I like the theater." him:"You are being weird" me: "Not weird. I don't have to like Batman, but will go because you do". "I always do things I don't want to do for you." And we are back to the "whatever, don't care".
   He is in a bad mood now. If I don't agree with everything he says or wants to do then I'm mud. In most relationships, you can give them your point of view, and it's just being an individual. The BPD takes everything personally as a slam against them. He's groveling in his feelings right now, and because he feels slighted, he believes he is.
    The lying about how I am feeling won't work.
formflier:
Excerpt
Would you like to work on strategies and techniques so you can share your feelings and counter his demands that you "share exactly" where and when?
  I'm failing at this.
    I'd like to say "That sounds like a nice movie to see with your friends" He would go balistic. No matter what, he gets mad. So it doesn't matter what the answer is the response is anger.
   
   
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« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2019, 08:18:04 PM »


The way you speak to him is NOT to manage his anger..not to manipulate him into a certain mood. 

The way I would like to coach you to speak to him is so you are heard and understood.  Then...he can have whatever reaction he wants to..that's his business.

For instance...I would not advise you to "debate" him about if something is wrong or not.

Don't correct him.  Offer him more understanding of your position...and respect that he may want it...or not.  Don't chase him with correct information.

"Wrong...oh my goodness.. I'm still sorting out my feelings about this and haven't yet formed an opinion.."

Do you see how you don't directly say "nothings wrong..."  It's not a yes/no argument...you are offering nuance...he may or may not bite.


Best,

FF
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« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2019, 10:46:53 AM »

 "Can you come out here?", I go out to the studio; he points to a Batman ad and says "I'd like to go to that on Sunday?". It's a Batman movie from1989 that is replaying. I say me:"Sure, I like that theater". him:"What's wrong?" me:"Nothing is wrong. I don't necessarily like Batman movies, but I like the theater." him:"You are being weird" me: "Not weird. I don't have to like Batman, but will go because you do". "I always do things I don't want to do for you." And we are back to the "whatever, don't care".

I'm a very candid person and it seems like you are as well. I don't like "little white lies" and my feeling is that in a relationship, I want to be honest about my thoughts and feelings. Like you, I was totally surprised and blindsided by my husband's reactions to comments I made that would not be a big deal with someone who doesn't have BPD.

So I'm going to parse this paragraph for exactly what in your words that set him off.

"Sure, I like that theater"  I would agree with him that this was an odd comment when someone invites you to see a movie.

"Nothing is wrong. I don't necessarily like Batman movies, but I like the theater." He probably took this as an implicit criticism of his preferences. My husband personalizes his feelings about movies, books, other things, so if I criticize his choices, it can seem like I'm criticizing him.

"Not weird. I don't have to like Batman, but will go because you do". How would you feel if you invited someone to see a movie and they told you they didn't like it, but they'd attend because of you? I wouldn't feel good thinking that my companion really didn't want to see that movie and that they were only doing it for me.

"I always do things I don't want to do for you." Match to gasoline. If I'd heard this from anybody, I'd be pissed off.

Why not say, "I know you like that movie, but I'm not interested. You go and I'll do something else." It may take a while for this pattern to work out well between the two of you. It took a bit of time for my husband and me, but now he totally accepts that I don't share some of his interests and he's fine going alone or with a friend. And he now knows that if I accompany him, it's because I truly want to be there.




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« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2019, 06:53:47 PM »

Excerpt
Do you see how you don't directly say "nothings wrong..."  It's not a yes/no argument...you are offering nuance...he may or may not bite.
    I can see how this would be a much better response than being blatant. I also think that after reading this, I sounded passive aggressive "I always to things you want to do"  Not a style I want to represent.
    Last night we did go to a movie, one that we both agreed on. He didn't like it as he hates musicals, and I didn't realize that it was. I enjoyed it, but tried not to gush about it etc., as I could sense he was still in the bad mood he's been in for a few days. Before bed, he said, "what are we watching tonight", I mentioned a show we had been watching and he said "I'd rather not watch that", which I obliged. (all this sounds so trivial, yet these are the type of conversations that tip him over).  I waited for him before starting anything, he said, "I'm just going to sleep". I knew he was still mad about the movie, and leaned over to kiss him but instead I kissed him near his ear. He went ballistic, yelled at me, and left the room. Instead of watching a show, I just scrolled on my phone. He came back into the room, threw the remote at me and said "I thought you were going to watch T.V."  The next morning, he saw me and then abruptly left the room (to his studio). I went out to say Good Morning, apologized for the ear kiss and also addressed the way he had treated me last night. He said "I think we are always going to fight". I know how true this is, because every small infraction seems to send him over the edge. I removed myself from the situation (my office).  An hour later, he rapped on my door to apologize. It's not a lot but it is progress. When I said that I didn't deserve to be treated poorly, I felt as though a boundary was being drawn.
    He said later in the day that he never felt that he belonged anywhere, ever. I asked if that meant with me, and he said "yes". He says we are think so differently about everything.  He's talking more than he used to about his feelings and like it or not, that's how he feels. Leaving him alone to sort his feelings out, is still new. It's not just me that he has trouble relating with, which I'm sure is not unusual.
     I sometimes feel like I'm living with a four year old who needs  a nap (which is what he doing).  Giving him the space to come back to base, means not pushing him, for anything.
      I do feel badly that he doesn't feel that he belongs anywhere. I'd always thought that the foundation of marriage was the 'two against the world' mentality, and I consider him to be my 'home'. I have kids and friends that are not in his close proximity, but that is what he has asked for, to be separate from them. I'm sure my kids would say that I represent 'home' to them. How do you give someone that feeling of 'home' if they don't know what that is? He's estranged from everyone in his family and most of his friends keep a distance from him (unless they need something). 
     Being close to him means not expecting him to feel close back. And I don't.
     
     
     
     
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« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2019, 07:30:28 AM »


I see more double messages.

I like the theater I hate the movie (very confusing)

I went out to apologized to him and address his behavior (about the ear kiss).  Again..very confusing.

If you hand someone "double messages"...don't be shocked if they pick a message to hang on to that you don't like.

I think that you should do some deep thinking about how YOU want to relate to him and then do that. 

Kissing the person you snuggle with/sleep with/are intimate with...is not a big deal.  And apologizing for that is another double message.

I'm not saying you need to defend it and make him see your view...but by apologizing you are (on some level) buying into his view that it's worthy of a freak out...tossing the remote...and all the rest.

What if TVs were unplugged for a week.  If you don't want to talk you could take turns giving massages.

If you do talk.  Pause...consider you message.  Send him one message.  Let him do with it whatever he will do.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2019, 02:35:48 PM »

Thank you FF, it is confusing.

Mixed messages don't work, and I will work on finding 'one' message that I want to get across.  I knew that apologizing for the kiss was unwarranted, but did  this so he wouldn't think I wanted to harm him on purpose. (He's winched before when I've kissed him too close to his ear). I might add that he goes berserk  during fireworks and hides. Something to do with childhood memories of his dad unloading a 357 at his mom (nobody was hurt, but the gun riddled the house).  Loud noises close to his ear, just sets him off.

The mixed messages might come from wanting not to set him off. The movie that he wanted to see is a good example. I didn't want him to think that I didn't want to go, so said I would because I liked the theater. I could have just as easily as said "Sure", bit my tongue. (A tough thing to do for me), or said "Why not go with Roy or one of your buddies that love Batman."  This trying not to set him off is just not working, as it doesn't matter what is said, if he is going to escalate, he will escalate.

Lately, when he starts to go into the past and ruminate like a broken record, I've been able to nip it. I'll point out what we were discussing in the here and now, and that bringing up the past doesn't fit in. It's a distinct message  He doesn't like it, but he gets it. 



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« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2019, 09:52:06 PM »

This trying not to set him off is just not working, as it doesn't matter what is said, if he is going to escalate, he will escalate.

You cannot appease your way out of a dysregulation. However boundaries may protect you from experiencing one. He may start to have one, but you are under no obligation to observe it.
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« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2019, 07:09:32 PM »

Excerpt
He may start to have one, but you are under no obligation to observe it.
     It is taking back the power. No, I don't have to be a participate as I felt obligated in the past to 'play along'. There were always tears, disbelief, confusion, begging etc. that I showed when he raged out of the blue. "I thought this was in the past", "We just had a nice dinner, why this?" Cry, run into the house and cry some more. This was so unproductive as he would come out of it unscathed and I'd be an emotional mess for days.
     I just quit reacting to him and got sick and tired of his temper tantrums. It is how I survive. 
     
     

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« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2019, 07:55:14 PM »

Thank you FF, it is confusing.
 

So...I've been thinking about this post for a bit.  To most people "it's just a kiss..no big deal"  However, you know that it's so much more to him.

I'm wondering if there is a place for empathy here.  Someplace you can reach out to him, perhaps have a conversation about how he wants you to show him affection.

As you know, many pwBPD have "stuff" in their past.  I've had to learn to "bubblewrap" the part of my wife that doesn't handle being told "that is wrong" very well.  She hears "I am wrong" (that my wife is wrong..vice did something wrong) 

Pretty tough childhood, she was told and showed in various ways that she wasn't wanted.

Rather than saying that she is wrong, I'll wonder if "there is a better way" or other more gentle method.  And..even if she is wrong about something...many times it doesn't matter. 

Anyway..loud noises and memories of a gun thing from childhood.  Tough stuff.  Hope you can find some room there for empathy and understanding.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #28 on: July 05, 2019, 09:45:09 PM »

FF, thank you.
    Thank you especially for reminding me to be compassionate.

Excerpt
Rather than saying that she is wrong, I'll wonder if "there is a better way" or other more gentle method.  And..even if she is wrong about something...many times it doesn't matter. 
   
     How quickly I forget to pick my battles, rather than gearing up for every indiscretion that comes up. Making big battles out of misunderstandings is a classical reactionary 'old way of thinking'.  So, this 4th of July, from the start of the day, I listened to how he was feeling, and when the fireworks started going off, we hunkered down. We watched a movie with full sound on, and at the end of the evening, he seemed relieved. A major upheaval a few years ago, started by fireworks turned into a big mess. This year it was calm.
 
    I'd like many more calm days. Letting live, and letting go.
   
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« Reply #29 on: July 05, 2019, 10:33:39 PM »

Watching a movie with the sound masking the fireworks was a great strategy. 

We all have our triggers. It’s just that pwBPD can be more profoundly triggered than we are, but we can get triggered too.

Being annoyed, frustrated, irritated are all triggers for nons. Because they aren’t as “big” a response as a dysregulation, we may not even realize that we might be triggered. Perhaps our BPD loved ones don’t realize when they start getting triggered either.
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« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2019, 10:46:50 PM »

Hi Cat Familiar:
   You can say that again!
Excerpt
Being annoyed, frustrated, irritated are all triggers for nons. Because they aren’t as “big” a response as a dysregulation, we may not even realize that we might be triggered. Perhaps our BPD loved ones don’t realize when they start getting triggered either.

    I can tell when my husband is about to go bonkers. He's doing it less than before, as I have noticed that he talks a lot about how "her kids are not part of our life anymore" etc. It might help him cope, but it triggers me. He tells people that my kids are no longer part of our life (his life maybe).  He will say rude and mean things about my son in front of of his friends, because that makes him feel better. Regardless, I get so angry inside, but can't discuss it as it will trigger him!

    I found myself secretly disliking him last night after he fell asleep. I started thinking about my kids and how he has managed to 'get rid of them' from his life. I travel to see them weekly, sometimes twice a week for just an hour. The hope of them ever coming here to visit me is nil. I can't take a chance on him being 'triggered'.

     He's being dishonest with me too. There is an upcoming industry trip, one that he said he would take me on at one time. He then changed his mind as it would cost too much. I found out today that he has bought tickets for one of his 'friends' and is putting him up at a hotel etc. You can imagine how I feel. He's not said a word about it, and it makes me think that he just decided to axe me from the plan. Rather than being honest, which I could accept, he's made this a big secret.

     There was a time that he wanted me to be more of an assistant to him, and help him. Instead, he put off giving me work to do, and procrastinated on it all. It would have been better if he would have just told the truth. WHY IS IT SO HARD TO TELL THE TRUTH?  It makes me question any of his motives/plans etc. So, as a result, I have decided that I don't want to help him, and will not ask him if he needs it. When it came down to having to pay me, or share any of the profits he changed his mind. At the bank today, I made a deposit for him and the banker said "Ms...  You can check your balance online". Unfortunately, I have no access to anything financial. This sounds like a rant, and maybe it is. I'm finally getting sick of being treated like a second citizen.
   
    I'm in my Masters program and starting a life coaching course soon. It's time to think about myself.  No more triggering him if I'm out of his hair.

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« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2019, 11:22:27 PM »

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