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Author Topic: How to help children of BPD sister be healthy  (Read 415 times)
Sis864928462824

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« on: July 13, 2019, 04:45:16 PM »

Hi! I am in need of advice about how to help a child be healthy with a BPD mom. This child was in a pageant that she had wanted to be in, and all day long on the day of the pageant, the child felt “bossed” around by the mother. She was acting pretty sad, and when I talked to the child (I’m family), the child was about to cry and said she didn’t want to do the pageant next year because she was so frustrated by her mother bossing her all day. To make the child happy, I said maybe we could get ice cream the next day. The mom said no, and the grandmother asked the mom if she could just say “we’ll see” or something along those lines. I know the family may have had plans, but we were trying to cheer the child up. Then the mother got angry and said “this is why I have anxiety, because nothing I say is right. I get no validation of my feelings.” What could I have done differently in this situation?
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« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2019, 08:34:07 PM »

Hi Sis . . .:
Welcome:

Is the BPD mom officially diagnosed? (Your sister, right?).  Is she on any meds?  Getting any Therapy?  Is the father in the picture?

In some ways, what you describe, reminds me of how some parents act while viewing a team sport that their child is participating in.  Was this a beauty pageant?  I'm thinking the event was more about BPD mom, as opposed to daughter.

Quote from: Sis864928462824
This child was in a pageant that she had wanted to be in, and all day long on the day of the pageant, the child felt “bossed” around by the mother. She was acting pretty sad, and when I talked to the child (I’m family), the child was about to cry and said she didn’t want to do the pageant next year because she was so frustrated by her mother bossing her all day.
How old is the daughter?  How many prior pageants had the child been in?    I'm thinking to some degree, that most normal parents "boss" their children around, but it is probably referred to as "supervise", "direct", "guide" or "manage" - more positive terms. I'm guessing that mom has a need to control things and to make them perfect?

Are you able to share a few examples of how the child felt "bossed".  Was part of the issue, the tone of voice and the way mom worded things?
Quote from: Sis864928462824
To make the child happy, I said maybe we could get ice cream the next day. The mom said no, and the grandmother asked the mom if she could just say “we’ll see” or something along those lines. I know the family may have had plans, but we were trying to cheer the child up.
Best to not suggest something to a child, before getting a parent's buy-in.  If it was possible to get an ice cream from your immediate location, that could have worked out.  Be careful with offering food to compensate for a child feeling sad.  Don't want a child to look towards food for comfort.
Quote from: Sis864928462824
Then the mother got angry and said “this is why I have anxiety, because nothing I say is right. I get no validation of my feelings.” What could I have done differently in this situation? 
Validation isn't about agreeing with someone (or their position).  It's merely acknowledging that they are struggling with a certain feeling.  In some situations, it can be hard to validate a person's feelings.  When in doubt of what to say, it's best to just don't say anything and NOT invalidate by word, body language or expression.

I find it interesting that she asked for validation of her feelings.  Do you think she really just wanted her feeling acknowledged, or did she want someone to agree with her position or point of view on the pageant?

The age of the child will make a difference in how the situation could be approached.  Perhaps some validation could have worked for the child. i.e. "I'm so sorry you are feeling sad.  I guess your mom probably bossed you so much, because she wanted you to win.  I guess that took the fun away for you.  Is that the case?"
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Notwendy
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« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2019, 06:15:21 AM »

I would say tread lightly with this. The Karpman triangle is a good model for this type of dynamic. When you step in to "rescue" your niece, your sister feels like a victim. Of course, the only true victim here is the child, but someone in victim mode doesn't see it this way. To your sister, she's the only victim.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle


With my BPD mother, she feels invalidated very easily. A suggestion feels like invalidation to her even if it isn't intended. I've experienced this when I have made an innocent suggestion and BPD mom has reacted as if I have insulted her. Sometimes even something said as an expression.  I have stopped making suggestions to her.

I would say that any time you intervene with her parenting is going to feel invalidating to her. I think it will help to keep in mind, that emotionally, she feels like a victim and will "hear" what you say from that perspective.

So what to do? My father's family was a stabilizing influence for me. There were pretty much unable to intervene when we were with BPDmom, however as we kids got older, we were able to visit and stay with them without mom. During this time, the best thing they gave us was "normalcy". They treated us like their own children- doing ordinary things like take me shopping for clothes, cook delicious food, and allow me some freedom to play with my cousins. We didn't have to "walk on eggshells" with them. They loved me unconditionally. We were basically good kids  but did get into some mischief as cousins would do, and we were disciplined but didn't face rages like we did with BPD mom.

Love the child unconditionally. Be her role model. She'll pick up on this. As she gets older, offer to have her come stay with you, and do ordinary things. Be her shoulder to confide in for the usual kid stresses, the bully on the playground, the mean girl at school, the first crush, but don't triangulate with her mother.

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Sis864928462824

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« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2019, 07:56:14 AM »

Thank you all so much for the input! It definitely makes sense. I have a follow-up question as well. What should a person do when they are watching a BPD mom push and push and push a child obviously past the point to where the child is sad and about to cry? I could imagine myself in that child’s place, and i’d Want to explode on her myself if it were me because the mom just doesn’t seem to know or care that the pushing is too much at that point. I understand it’s not good to interfere with someone else’s parenting. Do I just stand by and watch a child be miserable?
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Notwendy
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« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2019, 02:45:32 AM »

I wish I had a better answer. My mother does this still, and I am a middle age adult. The problem with too much intervening is triangulation. Also, you know it happens when you are not around, so it is a pattern the child is subjected to frequently.

My best answer would be- can you have the child with you sometime? This would give her some respite, and also show her a different way to interact. It would give her a bit of "normal". That's what my father's family gave us- a little bit of "normal" family.

Of course if you suspect frank abuse, I would intervene. However, this kind of emotional abuse isn't easy to prove. There wasn't any proof with us- we were fed, and clean, in a clean house. It was all emotional and mostly when nobody was there to see it. Being able to stay with my father's family at times helped us to feel loved and secure.
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Sis864928462824

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« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2019, 09:53:47 PM »

Thanks for your answer! I definitely don’t suspect abuse. I just know that living with someone with BPD tendencies can make you really sad and confused, and I hate that the kids have to know those feelings at such a young age. Thank you for your input!
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« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2019, 10:29:58 PM »

Quote from: Notwendy
My best answer would be- can you have the child with you sometime? This would give her some respite, and also show her a different way to interact. It would give her a bit of "normal". That's what my father's family gave us- a little bit of "normal" family.

Totally agree with this.  It helped me.
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    “For the strength of the Pack is the Wolf, and the strength of the Wolf is the Pack.” ― Rudyard Kipling
Sis864928462824

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« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2019, 05:54:41 AM »

Also, one last question: Did you ever feel resentment for the other adults in your life? I just feel like when the kids get older they might resent the adults who knew what the situation was but just stood by and never intervened, like the mom’s needs were more important than the child’s.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2019, 06:50:11 AM »

This is a great question and I think it depends on the relationship I had with them. Also depends on how old I was and my understanding of the situation.

Growing up I experienced a lot of denial ( gaslighting) from BPD mom. She blamed me and convinced me I was the reason for the issues in the family. ( this was not deliberate gaslighting like in the movie, but it was effective. It was her own distorted victim perspective )My father would get upset with me if I "made mother mad".  I didn't resent other adults, because, she convinced me of this. I graduated early and left for college, thinking things were better once I did. ( they weren't).

When I became a parent, I knew I would not want to repeat what she did, and each stage of parenting made me realize that I wasn't the cause of her behavior. Kids can be a challenge at times, but I was not any more of a challenge than that, and loving parents don't behave like she did.

I do wonder about her FOO. They have narcissistic traits, but they are not mentally ill. They are logical and intelligent people. But they continuously sing her praises and tell me she is wonderful and that nothing is out of the ordinary. This can't be true. Surely they have known her long enough. If I had to list reasons for resentment it would be: that they join in the family lie " your mother is wonderful",  believe her when she lies and paints me black to them. ( they could talk to me directly but they don't)

When I was a young teen we were out in the car and she got angry at me and made me get out, in the middle of the city. A young teen girl alone- and she drove off. No cell phones then. I fortunately had a little money, and called them from a pay phone and they picked me up and drove me home. I'm sure she came up with some story about dropping me off at the mall and I disobeyed but I told them what happened. The adults in my life didn't believe me when I told them what was really going on. I was dismissed if I brought it up. This was abuse and nobody listened.

My father- it's complicated. I loved him and attribute any good parenting I got from him. I also wonder why he knowingly complied with how she treated me- which makes him her co-abuser. However, at the later part of his life, I went to help and saw her abuse him. It called adult social services but as long as he was a legal adult and would not admit it, they could not intervene. I am sad sometimes that he didn't stand up for me, but see now that he was dealing with abuse too. I am sad that he experienced this. Considering the circumstances, he was a good father to me. I don't resent him.

Dad's family- they are my extended family now. I am in contact with my mother and her FOO but it isn't a family connection. We would stay with Dad's family often- and they gave me a "patch of normal".  My aunt later explained that she knew that about my mother, wished she could have done more. I told her I knew her hands were tied and what she did was enough. It was more than enough. What seems ordinary attention to you was meant so much to me. Build a warm relationship with the child, validate her feelings, believe what she tells you.

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