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Author Topic: Need help forgiving my BPD mother  (Read 433 times)
wmm
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« on: August 18, 2019, 10:10:44 AM »

I got into an argument with my mother two weeks ago and we kind of resolved it. She thinks we resolved it. I'm still upset with her but she doesn't know that. I haven't been talking to her as much but I'm nice when I do.

I'm still upset about the things that she said to me. I feel like it's too late and pointless to bring it up again though. I keep going over the details of things she accused me of and I want to go over with them with her and tell her she was wrong. It seems like a waste of time now and I think it would be too much to do that with her. I need to pick my battles. I want to be able to forgive her and move on from all the trauma that she caused in my life. It's making me way more unhappy than her. I feel like the healthy thing for me to do would be to let go and move on. I just don't know how to do it. I know that bpd is not her fault and that she loves me very much. When she was in good moods she was a very nice person and a good mother. Does anyone know of any resources that help to move on and get over past fights and traumas?
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GaGrl
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« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2019, 12:18:40 PM »

In multiple relationships, I have found that forgiveness does allow me to move forward, so I identify with your desire to do so.

Trying to go over old hurts and discuss them is just too much JADEing (Justify, Arge, Deny, Explain). It usually makes pwBPD even more defensive.

Do you intend to continue a relationship with your mother? Are you considering Low Contact or No Contact?

Boundaries will probably be your best tool for moving forward. There are several lessons on boundaries on this site.
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« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2019, 01:05:18 PM »

Hi!

I agree with Gagrl that boundaries will help quite a bit.   Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)  External boundaries in terms of how you respond to certain acts your mom does will go a long way in terms of protecting yourself.  Internal 'boundaries' (really self-differentiation and detachment) will also help.  Letting your mom be who she is without internalizing her behaviors, words and beliefs about you.

That last part is a process as is, IMO, forgiveness and letting go. 

Excerpt
Does anyone know of any resources that help to move on and get over past fights and traumas?
I can think of many resources that will help you with managing the emotions that go along with past fights and traumas ranging from meditation and mindfulness to boxing to some therapies.  Long lasting changes that lead to forgiveness and healing are processes and choices, sometimes made multiple times a day, that will take time.  Sometimes we try to rush forgiveness.  I am not sure if you are doing that though so let me know if I am off here.

For me, forgiveness is an ongoing process and is happening in stages.  It is a combination of things ranging from boundaries as mentioned above, to radical acceptance, to deep emotional work leading to self-differentiation which is also an ongoing process.

How do you define forgiveness?  Nailing that down will help you figure out what you need to work on to reach it.
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« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2019, 11:21:35 AM »

Hi wmm!  Welcome new member (click to insert in post)  I'm working through this forgiveness business too. It's really helpful to read through GaGrl and Harri's comments, I'm taking notes.

I made a list recently. The list isn't to share to take to my pwBPD, because I agree - it would just create problems, not solutions, and it's JADEing. I go through each item on the list to really understand what happened, how it made me feel, what I would have preferred (as Harri described, internal boundaries), the chances of it or something similar happening again (managing expectations), and how I might handle it differently next time (external boundaries). I feel less crazy once I see the pattern on paper, I regain a sense of stability and I understand what is mine to control vs where I need to reset expectations.

For me, grief has also played an important part in forgiveness. Grieving hurt, damage done, the loss of what should have been, the loss of what could have been? Maybe grief is part of the radical acceptance Harri mentioned?

Looking forward to hearing from you.

pj

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wmm
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« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2019, 11:52:12 PM »

Thank you for all of your helpful suggestions. I feel a lot of grief. We are at a family event and everything is going so well and everyone seems so happy. We're celebrating my mom's belated birthday. I feel miserable. She was telling stories about how abusive mother was and I felt like she was such a hypocrite because she gave me such a hard time for being upset with the abuse she put me through. My feelings are completely ruining what could have been a wonderful time. I'm just so upset and I want to get out of here.
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« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2019, 12:10:55 AM »

wmm, I'm hoping for your input on this point.
How do you define forgiveness?  Nailing that down will help you figure out what you need to work on to reach it.




My feelings are completely ruining what could have been a wonderful time. I'm just so upset and I want to get out of here.
When someone makes themselves out to be something they're not, then we often see that as hypocrisy. I appreciate what you mean when you see your M making herself out to be a victim (of her own abusive M) to others, while being the persecutor (in her role toward you). Of course you're going to feel indignant.

In my view, if you have feelings, and they're valid to you, then they could be trying to tell you something. So rather than having this conflict within yourself between your feelings and wants of enjoyment—a different path you can take is to self-validate your feelings and understand your wants for enjoyment at this party. I know a bit of what it means to be in these shoes so I encourage you that it can be done. It may not get your ideal situation in that moment—so I share with you that it's much less stressful than thinking your valid feelings 'ruin' your experience.

By the way, if you want to get out of there—why not? I don't think self-care and self-protection with distance (in this situation) needs the approval of others. Your mother isn't your daughter.

When it comes to being off-centred from a given situation, I've given myself 5—15 minutes to re-centre in a my own space. That way I can come back with a level heart and mind, and be in that moment how I want to be. This, I think, is better than being stressed and often being 'pushed' further off-centre by remaining in the same space. I think this approach is way more self-forgiving. In my view—it's also a great "grey area" option rather than the black (stay an self-punish) or white (leave the event altogether).

<edit: content>
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wmm
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« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2019, 10:10:10 PM »

I guess by saying forgiveness, I mean being able to accept her for who she is, feel empathy for what she went through and understand her. I had this brief thought in my head while I was at the cottage with my mom and family that I hated her. I love her, so how could I do that and hate her. She just hurt/can hurt me so much that it's hard for me to like her. Especially when she's a hypocrite or drinks a lot. My sister tells her she's proud of my mom all the time. My mom really appreciates hearing this because she's trying to do harm reduction. I think that my mom wants to hear it from me but I can't say it. My sister is better at seeing things from my mother's point of view. She can get upset about my mother's behaviour, but it's usually very brief and then she's able to calmly talk to my mom and get over it. My sister and I did have different experiences growing up. I think I got more of the abuse being the oldest child. She was kind of cushioned in the middle. My younger brother (he's available adult) gets more abuse from my mother than my sister does too. We have very different memories of my mom's attempted suicide that I saved her from. It wasn't all bad at the cottage. For a brief bit I thought that maybe my relationship with my mother was getting better when we had a good day. I let my guard down for a bit and then I got hurt again. We went around the table at dinner to say what we were grateful for and I couldn't bring myself to say I was grateful for my family, even though when it comes down to it, I would take a bullet for any of them, including my mother. I want to be able to have more compassion like my sister and less and less resentment.
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gotbushels
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« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2019, 10:10:02 AM »

I guess by saying forgiveness, I mean being able to accept her for who she is, feel empathy for what she went through and understand her.
Can you be specific of what part of her you're trying to accept? For what event in her life do you want to feel empathy for her for?
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wmm
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« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2019, 09:05:35 AM »

I guess I'm just trying to accept her for who she is. She can be the kindest, most caring mother when she's not raging. I understand that she had a very hard childhood which is a big part of why she has bpd. It's hard to accept that she won't quit drinking and is trying harm reduction instead. It's also hard to accept the fact that it's not her fault when she rages. According to the research, she is emotionally like a 2 yr old having a tantrum. I see a 65 yr old and expect the behaviour of a 65 yr old. I want to feel empathy for her current emotions. That even though it doesn't make sense, she is raging because she is so unhappy inside. I just feel angry and hurt.
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gotbushels
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« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2019, 10:33:12 AM »

It's hard to accept that she won't quit drinking and is trying harm reduction instead.
Can you be specific about why this is hard for you to accept?

It's also hard to accept the fact that it's not her fault when she rages. According to the research, she is emotionally like a 2 yr old having a tantrum.
If she is like a 2 year old stuck in a tantrum, why is having the tantrum not her fault?

I see a 65 yr old and expect the behaviour of a 65 yr old.
You mentioned in an earlier post that your M was diagnosed with bipolar and BPD. People who have BPD behave differently from other 65-year-olds. You mentioned also you've read SWOE, therefore you have some expectation as to what you can expect from a BP. A 65-year-old without BPD behaves differently from one with BPD. You know more than you did before, therefore your breadth of knowledge is wider. By incorporating what you know now about BP's and their behaviour, are you now able to change your expectations of your M to match the reality?
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wmm
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« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2019, 02:17:45 PM »

Harm reduction is hard for me to accept because she tried it before and it didn't work for very long, she just went back to drinking all the time. Seeing her get drunk is a trigger for me that makes me remember all the abuse she put me through when she was drunk. I'm not sure if I should just move on when she rages and ignore her or try to talk to her and get her to apologize and understand what she did was wrong once she's calmed down. I work with children and I talk to them about why their behaviour is not ok once they've calmed down. Is that too much to expect?
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wmm
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« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2019, 02:33:34 PM »

The difference with reasoning with a 2 yr old and my bpd M is that we want the 2 yr old to learn so that they won't do it anymore as they get older and mature. My M isn't getting help so I don't think she will get better. Is it worth the struggle? I want to stand up for myself but I don't know if it'll help. Not getting an apology makes me angry and hold resentment.

On another note, I heard Brene Brown  say that in order to forgive you must first grieve. I'm trying to look for resources about that so I can learn how to do it.
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gotbushels
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« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2019, 10:18:30 AM »

Seeing her get drunk is a trigger for me that makes me remember all the abuse she put me through when she was drunk.
It looks like her drinking and drunken behaviour are causing you anxiety. Have you joined an ACOA group?

I'm not sure if I should just move on when she rages and ignore her or try to talk to her and get her to apologize and understand what she did was wrong once she's calmed down.
It seems you're trying to parent your parent. This seems more the case given that you are quite literally placing her in the position of child in your relationship with her—given that you're comparing children you work with to be your M. I know this dynamic quite well—many of us here do. Have you tried radical acceptance?

My M isn't getting help so I don't think she will get better. Is it worth the struggle?
I appreciate what you mean when someone doesn't behave how we want them to behave, it can be frustrating. When someone has BPD and we don't want them to have it, of course you may feel exasperating—it's out of your control. Do you remember the lighthouse analogy in SWOE?
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wmm
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« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2019, 03:51:35 PM »

Can you explain the lighthouse analogy to me and what SWOE stands for?

I just want to scream at the top of my lungs at my bpM. I want to call her out for everything and defend myself for everything she accuses me of. I know that it would make things worse but I think that it would also feel so satisfying (not that I'm going to do it). I always cried instead of getting angry when my M raged because she wouldn't lash out as much as she would if I got angry.

I was a parentified child (the fixer) because I was the oldest at home. It took years of therapy to realize I was doing it and to stop. My younger sister does it more now. She constantly tells my mom that she is proud of her to make her feel better. She was even there to help mitigate when my mom got really mad at my father and threatened to separate from him and tried to kick him out of their house (they made up the next day).

I've researched radical acceptance but it seems so difficult and I need help to get there. My sister did a DBT course for a year and she said she still isn't able to do it.

I've been working with my therapist to talk to my bpM less and not confide in her. It's very difficult because I am codependent and enmeshed with her. I constantly want her validation and to talk to her when I have a problem. When something bad happens I automatically want to call my mom to rant but I stop myself now. She can be so loving but she has a selective memory and will use stuff that I've told her against me when she rages.

I feel so overwhelmed without her but I'm still so angry at her. I can talk to my partner but he's not very good at offering advice or understanding my situations.
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Panda39
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« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2019, 05:03:17 PM »

Can you explain the lighthouse analogy to me and what SWOE stands for?

Hi wmm,

SWOE is...Stop Walking On Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder by Mason MS, Paul & Randi Kreger

Not sure about the lighthouse analogy but it's been awhile since I read the book but I'm sure Gotbushels will be back with the answer to that one.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) (Inquiring minds want to know  Smiling (click to insert in post)

I was a parentified child (the fixer) because I was the oldest at home. It took years of therapy to realize I was doing it and to stop. My younger sister does it more now. She constantly tells my mom that she is proud of her to make her feel better. She was even there to help mitigate when my mom got really mad at my father and threatened to separate from him and tried to kick him out of their house (they made up the next day).

What's going on with your sister and parents sounds like triangulation to me with your sister in the Rescuer position.  Below is a link to more on Triangulation...
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=108440.0


I've researched radical acceptance but it seems so difficult and I need help to get there. My sister did a DBT course for a year and she said she still isn't able to do it.

On another note, I heard Brene Brown  say that in order to forgive you must first grieve. I'm trying to look for resources about that so I can learn how to do it.

I agree that grieving is a part of acceptance and I believe acceptance is how we get to forgiveness.  Below are the 5 stages of grief (there is no particular order you can go from one stage to another and back again or even be in more than one stage at at time  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)).



Here is a link to more on Grief...
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=292033.0

I've been working with my therapist to talk to my bpM less and not confide in her. It's very difficult because I am codependent and enmeshed with her.
 

This is great, I think you and your Therapist are on the right track, and it will take practice just like learning any new skill.  It will feel weird and awkward as you try to do things differently but if you keep at it you will master it.  One of the best lessons I learned here is that the only people we control is ourselves and you are working on that...you are making changes that can improve your situation. Keep at it!

I'm sorry your partner has a tough time with this stuff, but when you haven't experienced it, it can be hard to both see and understand it.  Folks with BPD most often show the behaviors to those closest to them and those on the outside may have no idea how difficult things can really get.  I'm on these boards because my Partner has an undiagnosed BPD ex-wife (uBPDxw) and though I could understand it, I didn't really get some of it until I had a Narcissistic Boss and experienced some behaviors first hand.  Does your partner have a willingness to learn more about it?  There are lots of good books out there that could at least give him a basic understanding of the things you are dealing with.

I'm glad you've joined the group, keep participating there is a lot of information, tools, and support to be had on this site.

Hang in there,  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
Panda39
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