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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Getting Over the Shock that Maybe He is Gay  (Read 552 times)
zachira
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« on: July 03, 2019, 11:21:55 AM »

There is a man I have been attracted to for quite some time. At times, he has indicated that he is interested in me, and I just didn't believe him so I have not reciprocated by letting him know I am interested. He says he likes me, yet his body language is cold and stiff, and when he smiles it is only with his mouth. There is no spark in his eyes when he looks at me. I once saw him with a really attractive young woman who was all over him, and his body language was just as cold with her as with me. I have noticed he lights up in the presence of other men and talks a lot about avoiding women. I recently heard him laughing with another guy. He and the guy then went by me, and he looked really happy for the first time and gave me a genuine smile. To me, this type of attraction has always been about being attracted to someone that is unavailable because I don't feel worthy of having a relationship. I also find myself being attracted to men just because they are interested in me.
I have recently read: "Is My Husband Gay, Straight, or Bi? According to author Joe Kort, the most common word on google to follow "Is my husband..." is "gay" not "cheating" as I would expect. In his book, Joe Kort discusses the many reasons straight men have sex with other men and how he determines if his male client is gay, straight, or bi. Many straight men come to see Joe Kort, a gay male therapist, because they are concerned due to their sexual behaviors and fantasies that they might be gay.
I find this topic relevant because those of us who have had abusive childhoods and unhealthy relationships with a significant other as adults are often attracted to people that we could never have a healthy relationship with. I would love to hear what others think about all this. Please share your thoughts and experiences in being attracted to the wrong kind of people, and if you now have healthier relationships, please share that as well. We are here to learn from each other.
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« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2019, 12:03:17 AM »

Quote from: zachira
At times, he has indicated that he is interested in me, and I just didn't believe him so I have not reciprocated by letting him know I am interested. He says he likes me,

Do his body language and micro-expression cues lead you to believe this, or your tendency to be attracted to unavailable men? Or both, perhaps? When he told you he likes you,  it sounds like you interpreted it to mean more than a friend (?).

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zachira
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« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2019, 08:41:51 AM »

I am likely attracted to him because he really doesn't want me, while his body language and actions tell me he really is not interested in me. It really does not matter what he says, body language and actions speak louder than words. Hard to know which is stronger my unavailability or his.
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zachira
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« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2019, 12:13:13 PM »

The bottom line on this guy, is he gives mixed signals and is hiding who is he is. I feel I have learned a valuable lesson about paying attention to body language and action over words. Trust is key. I have often been taken in by a man's charm which I believe is how we get ourselves embroiled with unhealthy people to begin with. My family members are/were very charming, especially my mother who had BPD though mostly only her children experienced the behaviors associated with BPD, so it is no surprise that I have often confused charm for love and affection.
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Circle
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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2019, 09:20:37 PM »

Good thread.
I like that you (zachira) were and are able to go with your perceptions of body language and actions.
So true.
I am 'dating' someone who claims to love animals, yet pushes mine away as they say hello to it.
As you mention, it is useful to look at people's actions.
I have also noticed that some people like to create an effect.
For instance, applying flattery to an individual in a group setting, in a way that seperates the individual from the group, and makes them a 'black sheep' (for lack of the best term).
As you are saying, it helps to think for one's self.
Going with the gut works for me also, because the mind often puts it all together on an unconscious level, and then signals us.
I think that I too am drawn to individuals who are unavailable to some degree.
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zachira
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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2019, 11:27:07 PM »

Circle,
I do think we can be drawn to people who try to impress us instead of paying attention to the body language and actions. Certainly you can tell if someone really loves animals and/or children by observing their interactions. I agree that going with the gut can really help sometimes because we do know who is not good for us if we slow down and pay attention. I think the more needy we are the more we ignore the signs that this person is not a good fit.
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« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2019, 04:16:25 PM »

My own thoughts on body language, ive read some books on the subject and based on my own experience; it is not something that I use to establish information, but most importantly I try to guard that I do not get misled in interpreting something out of my observations. Police officers think they can read people with body language or that there is an "art" or "skill" to it. Someone folding their arms whilst you talk to them, a body language book could claim that this is a sign of being hostile, and we could make this connection. Except, they could also just be cold and folding their arms for that reason.

someone rubbing their eyes - a sign of dishonesty? or did they actually have something irritating it.

the last book I read was called spy the lie, I recall it saying that they observe body language but they look for clusters of it in patterns to give it more weighting. Yet in any case, it is never used as conclusive of anything, it is words and actions or to go with the theme of the book further - finding words that end up contradicting themselves to establish lies. It was an interesting read. Some people have just a nervous disposition, I had a school friend who would appear always guilty to anyone when accused or questioned of something he was not guilty of, usually he would try to hold back laughter at the accusation but it gave instead a smirk, he told me how annoying it was and he could not help it.

take home message is, I think it has some importance but I would not base decisions on my perception of anothers body language by itself as conclusive of much of anything.
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« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2019, 04:42:03 PM »

I would though...
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zachira
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« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2019, 10:37:37 AM »

It is becoming more and more apparent that this man is gay. There are just so many red flags: 1) His face just lights up when in the presence of men, especially one particular guy who seems to be pursuing him. 2) Whenever he talks about women, there is a dull tone to his voice and his eyes are cold. In the time I have known him, he has repeatedly stated he was interested in me, while also demonstrating that he really was not attracted to me. While saying this things, he has an artificial smile on his face, his eyes are dull, and his body language cold. I was very vulnerable many months ago when he started pursuing me, though only partially, as he always made it clear that I was the one who needed to ask him out. I bring this up for discussion because this a type of unhealthy relationship that we can be vulnerable to when we have a pattern of falling for the wrong people. There are many gay people, both men and women, who get married to a person of the opposite sex , because they do not want to be gay. It sometimes takes years for the partner to figure out that their spouse is gay, and they will never be happy in the marriage.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2019, 10:43:40 AM by zachira » Logged

Circle
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« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2019, 03:56:21 AM »

Zachira,
Sounds like you have enough info to go with.
Some people need a cover if they are in the closet.
Relationship sorting can be such a pain.
Glad you have made such good observations.
Good for you!
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zachira
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« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2019, 08:47:49 AM »

Thank you Circle for your support! I just read that people who are denying their sexual orientation can look like they have a personality disorder until they accept it and then the signs of having a personality disorder disappear.
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« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2019, 12:06:19 AM »

Zachira,
That is interesting.
Seems to make sense, because the person is not being congruent with their true self.
Which would probably cause all sorts of frustrating feelings, outbursts, and possibly bad behavior.
Such a tough road that people have to face being themselves when it doesn't fit with mainstream culture.
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zachira
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2019, 06:44:50 PM »

Circle,
You are describing the behavior of a conflicted person, and that is certainly him. I never know how I am going to get treated by him. I have compassion for him; so sad to see a man who fears being true to his feelings and self.   
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Circle
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« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2019, 02:13:07 AM »

Zachira,
That sounds difficult for both of you.
Hopefully your compassion is working for you.
I hear you about people who you don't know what to expect from.
They can be very difficult.
It is sad, and understandable, and a bummer for him and you both.
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zachira
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« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2019, 09:27:30 AM »

It is not hard to have compassion for him. I never went out with him. Something just didn't feel right, and I knew I would be very hurt to be treated badly. I felt that his erratic behaviors felt a lot like how my family members with BPD have treated me. I am giving myself credit for giving myself plenty of time to get to know him. He has many fine qualities. I was reallly attracted to him, and still am because he is physically my type and I do like many things about him. I have learned a great deal from this site, about how people get love bombed and feel very physically attracted, only to get burned when they find out suddenly how mean this person can really be. I decided because of my relationship and family histories, I need to know a person pretty well before I start dating them. Time always shows who is who. I am starting to need less time as I am getting better at seeing people for who they really are pretty early on. I am noticing who is genuine and who is just putting on a performance to impress others. I grew up in a family where many people were two faced: charming and generous to nearly everybody when in their presence, and talking badly about nearly everyone behind their back. Dealing with a man that is likely gay, doing what he could to convince me he was really interested in me, was a new challenge. He really is a nice guy in many ways, and just terribly confused and erratic in his behavior. He often is genuinely kind and caring. It is just that suddenly he withdraws and treats me coldly. The way his eyes light up when he looks at men, and the lack of a genuine sexual attraction to women, makes me sure that I am right about his being gay, and it being too painful for him to accept his sexual orientation. He seems to periodically take an interest in me, to ward off his feelings about not wanting to be gay.
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« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2019, 11:56:19 PM »

Good job getting to know him first.
That is one lesson I keep not learning over and over and over.
Yeah, I was just blown away last weekend when my dating person did a total 180 (as you mention with people getting mean).
I have a couple disordered people in my family as well.
Good point; time does show who is who.
That's great that you are seeing who is genuine and who is not.
Unfortunately, sometimes it gets complex.
Yeah, one side of my family has that dynamic of back-stabbing.
The sudden withdrawals as you mention your friend doing, are difficult.
Still great observations on his eyes lighting up, combined with a lack of sexual attraction to women.
It does make sense that he is trying to disown that part of himself that is gay at times.
Perhaps he is slowly working his way to coming out.
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