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Author Topic: Any words of wisdom?  (Read 820 times)
All_Out_of_Sync
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« on: September 09, 2019, 10:58:49 AM »

I have spent time on the bettering board but I think it is time to get some feedback here.

I am done. I have been married for nearly two tumultuous decades but after 3 years of concerted effort at trying to repair a very damaged marriage, I am spent. I've been in individual therapy since the beginning of this year and have a level of clarity that has been lacking previously.

About 4 months ago I came across BPD from various reading and things clicked. The lightbulb came on after reading SWOE. I have been trying to fix a what I have no control over.  Worse than that, we apparently communicate in totally different languages; she speaks shame/blame & control, I do not.   I have tried to avoid JADE and use SET-UP but as my T told me, "You cannot DBT another person."  I have exhausted every avenue I am willing to explore.  I have come to the end.

I have spoken to a lawyer and will be filing for divorce.

Oddly, I am not angry right now. I am saddened & terrified of the unknown but resolved with this choice. We have 4 kids and I cannot in good conscience, continue living like this. It is a contentious environment that is not healthy for any of us.

I can imagine my high functioning uBPDw could have many different reactions. Maybe the writing is on the wall and she'll go along amicably (doubtful) or maybe she'll dysregulate and rage/plea (more likely).

My biggest fear right now is the unknown. Anyone care to share reactions they experienced or things I should watch out for?

Thank in advance,
Sync
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« Reply #1 on: September 09, 2019, 12:19:39 PM »

COVER YOUR ASS.  Record calls, save emails, record conversations in case it turns out explosive.  Delete if not needed.  Think about the kids.   Remember that she would likely not hesitate to throw you under the bus.   Read the book "splitting" by Bill Eddy.  My wife did stuff that I never thought that she'd be capable of. 

Be there for the kids and respect how they feel.  Know that this will likely be difficult for them but they'll see the light.  I don't know how much abuse / yelling / BPD behavior there was at your house but you and the kids will likely realize, over the next many months, how things were not normal at your house.

Don't fear the unknown. What you are doing is right.  Yes, the guild / doubts are normal, they'll come and go.
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All_Out_of_Sync
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« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2019, 01:29:37 PM »

Thank you Mart, I appreciate that.

For the last two & a half years I have kept a journal, including emails & texts. I just finished Splitting which was a great resource that helped me find an attorney familiar with high conflict situations.

Sadly, there has been a fair amount of volume at play. When I would request a break from her yelling or asked her to bring it down she would often say, "It's important that the kids see how you treat me!" (Not sure how her yelling and disparaging me reflects as my behavior?) I expect that and more as I wade into this phase...hope for the best, plan for the worst?

I really appreciate the encouragement that with some time I will be able to see just how "not normal" things have been at our house. The doubt kept me from calling the lawyer for a few days but now that I have put it in motion, I am beginning to feel more at peace.

THANK YOU,
Sync
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MeandThee29
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« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2019, 01:56:45 PM »

I agree with mart555. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. That's all you can do at this point. Having a good lawyer is key. Mine specializes in high conflict divorces and is an old-timer. Nothing phases him.

Initially the plan was to work out things ourselves first with the agreement before filing. Apparently working things out meant not questioning anything and ignoring parts of the law, so I took what we had and my lawyer drew up the agreement. It was a fair, solid agreement.And here we are months later, stuck in the weeds and frustrated. After talking to his lawyer last week, my lawyer said to let go of any schedule expectations. Lots going on with the other side.

Likely it will be more expensive and more time-consuming than you can imagine. But you will find surprising clarity as it unfolds. Don't stop seeing your therapist as you process it.
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« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2019, 02:49:40 PM »

How old are your kids?  Are they still living at home?

Sadly, there has been a fair amount of volume at play. When I would request a break from her yelling or asked her to bring it down she would often say, "It's important that the kids see how you treat me!" (Not sure how her yelling and disparaging me reflects as my behavior?) I expect that and more as I wade into this phase...hope for the best, plan for the worst?

This is one of my H's uBPDxw's favorite games.  Obviously you made her feel bad, so therefore you deserve everything she does and it's all your fault.

H's uBPDex likes to bad-mouth us to SD12.  We are sticklers about keeping SD out of any adult disagreements, so a few months ago uBPDex actually recorded a confrontation between us and tried to play it to SD, to show SD how awful I am.

Courts really frown on this.  They want the kids kept out of the fighting.  If your kids are minors, make sure that you document all of these incidents as they occur.  That will help in a custody battle.

H's uBPDex is terrified of authority figures and especially of the court.  They managed to get divorced without a lawyer and she's backed down each time we've filed for a custody modification - but only after several months of chaos.

Divorce is hard, even without a personality disorder in play.  I hope you are taking time for self-care.
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All_Out_of_Sync
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« Reply #5 on: September 09, 2019, 03:05:29 PM »

MeandThee,

Thanks for the perspective, it is very helpful. I think it is good to prepare myself for a long road.

You bring up something I am struggling with...when to tell my W and how that affects our ability to work these things out. Someone on these boards gave a reminder on a different post, "best behavior is rarely rewarded & worst behavior is rarely punished." This has been rattling around in my head the last few weeks.

I have made my decision, that is final, however I want to work this out as amicably as possible.

On a weekly schedule with my T and plan on keeping it that way. She has been a great voice of reality for me! My T says I should file before I tell my W to make it clear the decision is not up for discussion. (My T has also warned against mediation given how twisted my W often makes things.) My lawyer is familiar with high conflict situations and has said that notifying my W the day we file with the court is reasonable.

My worry is, will I be starting off too assertively by filing before telling her? Am I setting myself up for a harder road or is the reality that this will be a hard road regardless?


WorriedStepMom,

Thanks for weighing in. My kids are in early teen years to middle teen years. They are old enough to know something isn't right.  I try to keep conversations out of view of them but the kids have seen/heard enough. One morning just a few weeks ago she spent the few minutes I was trying to leave the house to go to work screaming/crying about what a great person she was...right out side my younger son's door. So sad...

As for self-care, yeah I have started running again. Hard but good to do! Also been more intentional about reaching out to friends & family (and you all!).

Thank you both VERY MUCH for the feedback,

Sync
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MeandThee29
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« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2019, 04:33:29 PM »



I have made my decision, that is final, however I want to work this out as amicably as possible.

On a weekly schedule with my T and plan on keeping it that way. She has been a great voice of reality for me! My T says I should file before I tell my W to make it clear the decision is not up for discussion. (My T has also warned against mediation given how twisted my W often makes things.) My lawyer is familiar with high conflict situations and has said that notifying my W the day we file with the court is reasonable.

My worry is, will I be starting off too assertively by filing before telling her? Am I setting myself up for a harder road or is the reality that this will be a hard road regardless?


I agree with your therapist. If you have settled in your mind, file. There will be a negative reaction, but you are taking a reasonable step based on what has come before. In some ways the divorce process may be more of what you've been through before, so you won't be entirely blindsided. My lawyer also recommended against mediation. He said that collaborative settlement sometimes works in these situations, but he recommended against it in my situation. You really don't have to decide that yet though.

Divorce is a very fluid process. You really don't know what she will do or what her attorney will do in a particular situation until it happens. You may think that things are going forward despite the agony, and then it may stall. One of the lawyers may have back-to-back court cases or demands outside of the office. Your spouse may take a break for whatever reason.

A friend of mine in a similar situation was separated for two years and then the divorce took two years. So four years total. There were many changes to the agreements, sometimes reversing what was supposedly already agreed to. There were no-shows at court and rescheduled appointments at court. There were missing documents and no-shows at depositions. The spouse's first attorney quit partway through in frustration, and the second attorney was very disorganized and added to the confusion. It was a mess, but finally ended.

I thought mine would move pretty quickly, but as I posted earlier, it doesn't look like it.
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ForeverDad
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« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2019, 11:21:05 PM »

I have tried to avoid JADE and use SET-UP but as my T told me, "You cannot DBT another person."  I have exhausted every avenue I am willing to explore.  I have come to the end.

I was enlightened on an apt perspective from a post long ago where the member wrote that the other's perception of the past history was just too much overwhelming emotional baggage for the other to listen or even hear us.  The Denial and Blame Shifting are just too great.

As for your spouse claiming your involvement however minimal in her rants and rages makes you at fault too, well, there's not much you can do about that.  She won't listen, so it's okay not to try anymore.  It is what it is.  I decided to record my ex's poor behavior and outbursts.  I figured that while it may not rise to the level of court seeing it as "actionable" bad behavior, it should at least prove I'm not the one behaving poorly nor the one behaving aggressively.

My worry is, will I be starting off too assertively by filing before telling her? Am I setting myself up for a harder road or is the reality that this will be a hard road regardless?

Our experience in most cases?  If you tell the acting-out spouse your plans in advance, that can enable them to sabotage your plans, often by filing allegations in an attempt to make you look worse than the spouse.

Don't be guilted.  Sadly, trying to be overly fair or overly nice creates an added risk that you can be sabotaged.  In other words, your natural inclinations can end up with you sabotaging yourself.  Do what you have to do.  Your defense is that the other spouse should have improved behaviors years ago.  Those are the consequences.
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« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2019, 08:21:22 AM »

Sync,

Another great set of books is Eddy's Don't Alienate the Kids: Raising Emotionally Resilient Kids When One Parent has BPD. Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak, or anything by Dr. Craig Childress can also be helpful.

Your wife's disorder means she engages in splitting. Her disorder also makes it difficult to see her kids as separate from her. Once it's clear you're leaving, she will likely attempt to get the kids to split you too. This manifests as parental alienation and it's good to get ahead of these maneuvers so you have some skills to offset it. You've described aspects of it during the marriage, and after divorce it will likely intensify.

Skillfully validating how your kids feel is a big part of navigating this aspect, but so is recognizing some of the more specific strategies. My ex used to say to our son (then 9), "Your mom loves the dog more than us." When S9 would say that to me, I learned to say, "Wow. How did it make you feel when dad said that?" Instead of what I had been saying, which probably sounded to S9 like, "Blah blah blah blah you're wrong."

Typical Reactions of Kids Going Through Divorce

Psychological and Emotional Stages of Divorce

Exiting a BPD Relationship

This article about leaving a BPD relationship is also good.

It might help you decide the way to tell your wife the relationship is over, and how you want to handle the next phase.

What are your goals for custody and visitation?
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 08:26:24 AM by livednlearned » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2019, 08:37:34 AM »

I completely agree with Forever.  Giving the ex any indication of your plans is almost a certainty of sabotage and using it against you.  Don't show your cards no matter how much you feel the need to. 
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GaGrl
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« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2019, 09:25:41 AM »

Agree. Initiate the divorce, and then let her know -- you will need to decide how to give her the petition, as she needs to acknowledge receipt.

As mentioned above, this will help should she attempt to accuse you of abuse. If you tell her ahead of time, she can file abuse accusations with CPS or police. If you file and provide her the petition, she might still accuse you, but it will be viewed as retaliation for filing rather than a case for serious investigation -- that is, it might just get wrapped up into the settlement and custody discussions.

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All_Out_of_Sync
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« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2019, 10:06:13 AM »

Wow, so much great feedback and wisdom in these words.   Thank you all for weighing in with your wisdom.   

ForeverDad,

Thank you. The phrase, "overwhelming emotional baggage" sums up this situation so well. That resonates with me on a big way.

I appreciate the encouragement to do what I need to do. You are right, these are the consequences to a long road that has given her ample opportunity to work through what is going on. Your caution against sabotaging myself by being overly nice/fair is well stated.

With hindsight, that is what kept me in the marriage for nearly two decades and is my default. Me giving the benefit of the doubt needs to end; I know what I am dealing with in terms of a consistent pattern of behavior. Thanks again.

Livednlearned,

Thank you for the recommendations. I have been soaking up a ton of information the last few years through reading and will definitely pick up those books. Knowledge is power and this is the sort of thing that will really help me face the fear of the unknown by having some idea of what to expect. THANK YOU.

I read through the Stages of Divorce article and found myself surprised at how much of those stages I have already moved through in the last 3 years. (That was when I told my W that I could not keep living like this and would start the process of change by focusing on myself. I encouraged her to do the same but as you can see by this post, I don't think she was willing/able to do the same; instead blames me.)

In terms of custody & visitation, I will be going for 50%. There is no diagnosis and although we have problems, at this point I am not ready to push for full custody. The kids are old enough that in a few years, the choice of who they spend time with will be up to them.

Grady & GaGrl,

I appreciate you seconding the sentiment to not sabotage myself. I have put in so much work to get myself to this point. It would be a shame to get so close to handling this to only undermine the work I have put in. The thought of those kinds of allegations seems  outlandish but I get it. On what I am dealing with it is not out of her past behavior to go the character assassination route.  I'll be keeping quiet until it is filed.

Thank you all. This forum has been such a HUGE blessing. It is nice to have experience of others to lean on during such a difficult time.

Sync
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ForeverDad
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« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2019, 05:01:25 PM »

Yes, normally seeking 50% up front makes sense.  But odds are she will overreact and demand 99-100%.  (My son was approaching 4 years of age when we separated and she would rant that she'd just disappear and I'd never see him again.  Didn't happen but she did make allegations that were extreme enough that I could have been blocked from parenting.)

So imagine a judge seeing you asking for 50% and her demanding nearly everything.  Wouldn't a quick fix for a temp order be to split the difference and assign you the "typical dad schedule" of alternate weekends and maybe an evening or overnight in between?

Perhaps a smarter way to present your case is that (1) you request primary and majority time but due to the time available to present a case for a temp order - often just a half hour is allotted - you would agree to equal time on a short term basis while the professionals determine the long term outcome.  (2) Also state that joint custody could be acceptable but that you as the stable parent need to have Decision Making or Tie Breaker status.

Frankly, that approach may still be ignored.  (My court's process was to assign one parent temporary custody, and yes it was my disordered and obstructive spouse.)  But at least you have made the effort to get it logged in court "on the record".  And can refer to that position later in the divorce case.

Be aware that much of the time discussions before the judge aren't on the record.  It's almost as though they want to have the least amount of testimony on record so the judge has greater flexibility or discretion when making decisions.  So be alert to the times when the judge or magistrate starts or ends the recording.
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All_Out_of_Sync
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« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2019, 08:51:58 AM »

ForeverDad,
I have to talk to my L about that, she is familiar with high conflict situations. Thanks for the ideas.

Last night I had a session with my T and she freaked me out. I began talking about filing and then telling my uBPDw. My T pushed back, asking what I would get out of telling her vs. allowing the court to serve her notice. I explained I am "trying to do the right thing."

My T's response was jarring but rings true. Basically she told me, "You have tried to do the right thing, the rational thing and this is where you are today. If this next phase was going to 'go well', you wouldn't be in this position. "

It terrifies me to leave it up to the court but I also have to acknowledge, I do not know what my W's response will be. My T is concerned she could dysregulate, hurt herself and then blame me.

My W cannot even have simple conversations about the family calendar without getting nasty.  Last weekend she even revoked my ability to edit the calendar (got reinstated Tuesday?), so there is recent precedent for poor behavior...i guess it isn't too far fetched that she could escalate with other more mean spirited or even dangerous behavior...

In conjunction with everything you all have said, I am inclined to now let the court handle notification.  Thoughts?

This feels wrong but at the same time wise. I am in unchartered waters. I hate that it has come to this...
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« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2019, 10:18:47 AM »

I definitely think you should let the courts handle notifying her.  Stop trying to do "the right thing" by her.  All that happens is you lose in the end.  This is the start of taking your power back and making sure you are a mentally stable parent since you know she won't be. 

I know it's so hard to put yourself above her after all these years of putting yourself to the side and taking the abuse, but baby steps.  You hired your L for a reason.  And your T knows you and the situation intimately.  Release your obligation and follow the trusted advice of professionals.

You have this.  I know it's not easy, but just compartmentalize and focus on one task at a time. 
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« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2019, 01:23:07 PM »

Are you going to be living together even after she is notified?  Can the children be protected from being with her when she is served?

My H told his ex about his plans to do a custody modification last summer.  She flipped out and yelled at H for hours, and then we had a few months of crazy.

This summer, he had the court serve her (with instructions that they could only serve her on days she didn't have SD).  She flipped out, got herself committed to inpatient psych...and then when she got out we've had a month of crazy (but not as bad as last summer).

The psych ward stay was good for her.  It was good for H that he didn't have to be the recipient of the initial dysregulation.  But they don't live together.
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All_Out_of_Sync
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« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2019, 02:14:37 PM »

Grady,
You are correct, I hired professionals to help me, I am going to do my best to listen their advice...it is just a bit of a mind job to come out of the FOG and like you said, I gave to take my power back. Thanks for the encouragement to stay the course.

worriedStepmom,
We are currently living together and my lawyer has suggested staying through the process. The kids are at school during the day so I would hope they could serve her on a day she is home alone.

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« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2019, 03:03:28 PM »

You may want to talk to your lawyer about the consequences if you take the kids to a hotel for a few days.  It is likely that when she gets served she will by highly dysregulated that evening, and you probably won't want the kids around it.

On the other hand, you want to make sure she can't claim you moved out and abandoned the family home. 
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All_Out_of_Sync
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« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2019, 05:29:54 PM »

Well, I talked to the lawyer this afternoon.

 L says me telling her will set the tone to the rest.  Wants me to discretly record to protect myself...
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ForeverDad
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« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2019, 06:23:50 PM »

L says me telling her will set the tone to the rest.  Wants me to discreetly record to protect myself...

Wise advice.  I started recording (this was in 2005) in the final months together as the marriage was disintegrating and then imploded.  I was still scared out of my wits but I at least felt I could defend myself against allegations since I would have proof I wasn't the one aggressively ranting and raging.  Predictably she did play the victim card, tried to frame me as a child abuser, but all she had were her claims.

Another good idea is to have a trusted friend or family member (your family, not hers) with you or nearby (as both witnesses and defense) since the highest risk of being painted black is in the first hours and days after notification.

Be forewarned... she will try to make you lose your temper and overreact so she can claim you were threatening, harassing, abusive or whatever.  So don't let her trigger you into useless debates about would haves and should haves, they won't help and could even sabotage you.

She will try to guilt you, blame you.  Do not apologize for anything.  Well, maybe you could carefully say something like "I'm sorry you FEEL that way..."  You can't be cast as guilty when apologizing about her intangible perceptions, actions, reactions or overreactions.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2019, 06:51:57 PM by ForeverDad » Logged

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« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2019, 07:08:30 AM »

She may also surprise you and become apologetic, sad, emotional.

It's good to have a plan for that, too.
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« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2019, 02:32:27 PM »

Can you file, and then tell her you have filed and that she can expect to be served?

Or is your L saying that you should tell her that you are going to file?

Is there a way for you to have the conversation but for the filing to be a done deal that she cannot guilt, cry, or tantrum you out of?
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« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2019, 03:14:12 PM »

Although I am expecting anger/rage/blame, it is a very good reminder that my W may play it with the shame/sorrow/apologetic/begging route as well. I will do my best to be prepared for whatever comes from the conversation. However, if I have learned one thing over all these years it is that I can rarely game-out her reaction before hand. I'll be recording it for sure as I want to protect myself no matter the outcome.

GaGrl, yes that is one thing the T & L do agree on; file the petition FIRST and then tell her.

My decision has been made and I know nothing that comes in response can be trusted. No matter what my W says/begs/pleas, I want to be able to say, "I have made my final decision and now we will have to work towards sorting things out in the most amicable way possible."

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« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2019, 03:47:46 PM »

A lot of us had a problem with self-sabotage after filing.

You may feel tempted to soothe your feelings of guilt and obligation by negotiating with yourself, gifting her more than is necessary, thinking it will make her more reasonable. It won't. In fact, being submissive tends to make things worse because the small gains feed the sense that acting badly pays off.

It doesn't mean you are being aggressive. It means you are being assertive, and not submissive. Assertive, consistently, is the best formula for a fair agreement.

It is already hard enough to leave these relationships. Try to remind yourself that you will get stronger in the weeks, months, years ahead and whatever agreement you make now will linger well past the time you have gone through these early choppy waters.
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« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2019, 04:08:50 PM »

A lot of us had a problem with self-sabotage after filing.

You may feel tempted to soothe your feelings of guilt and obligation by negotiating with yourself, gifting her more than is necessary, thinking it will make her more reasonable. It won't. In fact, being submissive tends to make things worse because the small gains feed the sense that acting badly pays off.

Assertive, consistently, is the best formula for a fair agreement.

My lawyer helps me with this.

Earlier on, I was being too nice, and he quickly outlined why we need to hold our ground and why giving in on X would lead to Y. All within legal bounds. Thank you, Mr. Lawyer.

Recently I proposed a reason for an argument that he politely turned down. He said that approach invited an attack and that a similar reason blew up on us. Thank you, Mr. Lawyer.

Left to myself, what a mess.
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All_Out_of_Sync
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« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2019, 01:28:07 PM »

Well, after the kids left this morning, I came home and told my wife that I hired a lawyer and had filed the petition on Friday. I recorded the conversation and although not easy, went better than it could have.

I endured about 30 minutes of her crying, yelling, name calling and begging me to not do this. A few things I heard from her...

• She begged me to, "wait until the kids are gone." (Another decade, NO.)
• Called me selfish & delusional.
• Accused me of lying to the kids when I previously (and honestly) told them we were not getting divorced (at that point we were not).

I managed to stay even in tone and for the most part avoided getting drawn into a conversation about the past. I repeated my desire to do this as amicably as possible and find ways to come to an agreement.  I stressed my desire to move forward in a way that impacts the kids as little as possible.  I did ask her to not talk to the kids until she speaks to a lawyer and we come to some understanding about how we will move forward. Doubtful she respects that...

Breathing a sigh of relief that it is now out there...also terrified about how this will continue to unfold.

My heart breaks for the kids & her. I have tried to avoid this outcome but I am glad to be moving forward. I continue to tell myself I am making the right decision but of course doubt lingers...
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MeandThee29
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Relationship status: Divorced
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« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2019, 06:00:40 PM »


I managed to stay even in tone and for the most part avoided getting drawn into a conversation about the past. I repeated my desire to do this as amicably as possible and find ways to come to an agreement.  I stressed my desire to move forward in a way that impacts the kids as little as possible.  I did ask her to not talk to the kids until she speaks to a lawyer and we come to some understanding about how we will move forward. Doubtful she respects that...

Breathing a sigh of relief that it is now out there...also terrified about how this will continue to unfold.

My heart breaks for the kids & her. I have tried to avoid this outcome but I am glad to be moving forward. I continue to tell myself I am making the right decision but of course doubt lingers...


Hang in there. The storms are going to come. Remain responsible for yourself with your eyes on your kids. Listen to your lawyer.

At some point, you will very likely be living in different places and have the lawyers handle the back-and-forth. That will be a sad time, but you need professionals to keep this focused on the financial and legal transaction, otherwise the emotions will just go and go.
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All_Out_of_Sync
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« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2019, 01:51:16 PM »

So I told my wife I filed on Monday morning, we did not discuss it again until Tuesday night. The conversation was lengthy and occurred in our closet to stay out of earshot of the kids. I was hoping to come to some ground rules for a conversation with the kids but we were unable to get there.  Her desire is to get me to reconsider and it was EXTRAORDINARILY PAINFUL to endure.

 There were tears, begging, fear and it was exhausting. She cannot hear; I don't want anything that comes in response to this decision.

• She begged me to withdraw the petition.

• She told me she would do anything I want as long as I wait until the kids are out of the house. 

• She asked to separate. 

• She suggested we could come to an agreement on how to be civil. 

• She asked me to let her live in the garage.   

• She asked me to put a pause on this. 

• She begged me to keep an open mind.  

• She is adamant that this will destroy the kids and wants to find a way to avoid divorce.

• She told me that if she knew this was a possibility she would have done things differently. 

• She told me that was why she had asked me so often if I had spoken to a lawyer. 

I am exhausted. I am scared.

I have to hold firm but I am worried how she will behave when the reality sets in, my decision has been made...

I am trying to hold on to the hope of what this will look like in 18 months.
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worriedStepmom
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« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2019, 03:50:15 PM »

Kudos to you - and to her - for keeping that conversation out of earshot of the kids.

It may not be possible for the two of you to have a joint conversation with the children.  Be prepared to have that discussion by yourself, either before she says something, or after she has tried to involve them in the situation.  Are the children in therapy yet?

How long does your lawyer think you will have to continue to share the house?
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ForeverDad
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: separated 2005 then divorced
Posts: 18073


You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2019, 07:30:15 PM »

• She is adamant that this will destroy the kids and wants to find a way to avoid divorce.

If the children have been exposed to rants, rages, unreasonable demands and ultimatums, conflict, abnormal behaviors, etc, then the children will do better with a defined portion of their lives in a stable and consistent home.

• She told me that if she knew this was a possibility she would have done things differently.
• She told me that was why she had asked me so often if I had spoken to a lawyer.

You do know the second statement invalidates the first one, right? And how many years were you virtually begging her to improve her behaviors?

For me, allegations and obstruction were the pattern, only after divorce was at the final stage and her lawyer told her she would lose in a trial was she begging.  What other attempts might your spouse make?  It's hard to predict precisely but expect anything and prepare for everything.
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livednlearned
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« Reply #30 on: September 19, 2019, 07:54:06 AM »

Undiagnosed, untreated mental illness, high levels of marital conflict, exposure to substance abuse, physical and emotional abuse, chronic feelings of being unsafe, trouble recognizing and labeling and regulating feelings -- that's what destroys kids.

By the time divorce is being discussed, it's a punctuation mark to a long sentence of suffering and failure to thrive.

Divorce gave my son one house where his nervous system got a break. He was able to dial down the cortisol levels and I could parent him safely instead of the two of us being cowed into fear-based behaviors.

Your wife was running through every possible item of persuasion she could think of, hoping one would work. She has not prepared and felt she was losing control. Once she gets to a lawyer there will likely be a change of heart and her aggression may intensify.
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Breathe.
Harri
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« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2019, 03:59:48 PM »

Staff only

This thread reached the post limit and has been locked.  The conversation continues here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=340120.msg13081312#msg13081312

Thank you
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