First Post - Separated - Putting the kids first

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hello this is my first post and I need advice. There is A LOT of backstory to tell but here at work I don't have much time.

My wife thinks, and I agree that she has BPD and is awaiting a consult with a top doc in our area. She has already signed up for specialized therapy as well.

We have been married 15 years, have a 16 and 12 year old. Great kids, very smart, the 16 year old suffers from depression and the 12 year old has anger issues.

There has been a lot of bad stuff happen in the last 6 months and I will be filing for divorce (in reality this is a long time coming). My wife it seems is near rock bottom and flailing for control. I am passive in general and allowed her to control us all for a long time which now I regret.

The kids have chose to stay with me as they see me as the protective parent, my older daughter I have staying with her friend to get her some extra space from my wife right now as she needs it.

Today's conundrum is this. My wife wants to pickup the 12 year old from school and take her to see the 16 year olds sports game directly after. She proposed this yesterday.

Last night on our way home (different home now from my wife), my 12 year old and I, she told me she did not want mom to pick her up and she didn't feel comfortable being around her alone. My 16 year old has also told me today she doesn't want mom at her game. They are kids and feel bad telling their mom this directly to her obviously, they don't want to hurt her, but this is how they feel.

So I broached the topic this morning via text to my wife, and nicely as I could, but my wife is pushing back telling me the kids are disrespectful and I can't keep them away from her. They all have an extremely broken relationship and the therapist involved agree they all need space. I look like the bad guy both ways, I am keeping the kids from their mom, and I am also letting the kids down if I don't.

How do I tell my wife that she is hurting both herself and them, not allowing anyone to heal, when she is imposing and injecting herself in their lives every minute of the day?

[NaviDad]

Hello this is my first post and I need advice. There is A LOT of backstory to tell but here at work I don't have much time.

My wife thinks, and I agree that she has BPD and is awaiting a consult with a top doc in our area. She has already signed up for specialized therapy as well.

We have been married 15 years, have a 16 and 12 year old. Great kids, very smart, the 16 year old suffers from depression and the 12 year old has anger issues.

There has been a lot of bad stuff happen in the last 6 months and I will be filing for divorce (in reality this is a long time coming). My wife it seems is near rock bottom and flailing for control. I am passive in general and allowed her to control us all for a long time which now I regret.

The kids have chose to stay with me as they see me as the protective parent, my older daughter I have staying with her friend to get her some extra space from my wife right now as she needs it.

Today's conundrum is this. My wife wants to pickup the 12 year old from school and take her to see the 16 year olds sports game directly after. She proposed this yesterday.

Last night on our way home (different home now from my wife), my 12 year old and I, she told me she did not want mom to pick her up and she didn't feel comfortable being around her alone. My 16 year old has also told me today she doesn't want mom at her game. They are kids and feel bad telling their mom this directly to her obviously, they don't want to hurt her, but this is how they feel.

So I broached the topic this morning via text to my wife, and nicely as I could, but my wife is pushing back telling me the kids are disrespectful and I can't keep them away from her. They all have an extremely broken relationship and the therapist involved agree they all need space. I look like the bad guy both ways, I am keeping the kids from their mom, and I am also letting the kids down if I don't.

How do I tell my wife that she is hurting both herself and them, not allowing anyone to heal, when she is imposing and injecting herself in their lives every minute of the day?

[MeandThee29]

There has been a lot of bad stuff happen in the last 6 months and I will be filing for divorce (in reality this is a long time coming).

How do I tell my wife that she is hurting both herself and them, not allowing anyone to heal, when she is imposing and injecting herself in their lives every minute of the day?

Welcome. This is the place for what you're going through.

The hard reality is that you may be at the point where you can't tell your wife what she needs to hear anymore. Personality disorders make it hard to see relationships correctly and to take steps to improve them.

Do you have a custody agreement to smooth over some of these rough spots?

[worriedStepmom]

Welcome to  bpdfamily.

I'm sorry to hear you are going through such a rough situation.  Who is the therapist treating?  Your daughters?  Your wife?  You?  The whole family?  What does she mean by "space"?

Since you haven't filed for divorce yet, that means you probably don't have any temporary orders stating who gets the kids when and what rights each parent has.  It is a plus that mom is deferring to you on whether she is "allowed" to see the girls, since legally it is likely she can take them whenever she wants.  Of course, that leads to the awful conundrum you're in, where you want to do the right thing, but it's hard to figure out what that is - and you have to use some excuse other than "the girls don't want to be around you", because then they become targets.

When you file for divorce, what kind of custody schedule will you propose?  How much access do you think mom should have?   Has mom been seeing the girls regularly since you separated?

Do you think the girls are physically and emotionally safe when with their mom?  Is she going to verbally abuse them, emotionally manipulate them, threaten suicide, weep uncontrollably and expect them to comfort her, or hit them, drive erratically, threaten violence or otherwise put them in physical danger? 

If you believe they are very unsafe with mom, then they shouldn't be around mom at all.

If you believe that a visit might be only mildly bad when in public, then it might be worth offering to have you pick up D12, meet at the sports game and have D12 sit with mom and leave with you.  That gives them a little visit with other people around while D12 has a game to pretend to concentrate on.

If you believe that a visit would be okay and it's just D12 being difficult, then tell D12 mom is picking her up.

Make sure you document your decision somewhere for a future court hearing - that ex made X request at Y time (24 hours before the game), that D12 and D16 both said no so you responded in ... way.

(I have a 12-year-old stepdaughter.  Her mom spiraled pretty far down in the last few years.  It's gone from 50/50 with mom as primary, to last summer my H getting primary custody and a roughly 70/30 schedule, to now working on implementing supervised visitation.)

Just remember, you don't have to decide every issue perfectly.  You are doing the best that you can, and that's okay.

[NaviDad]

Thank you all for the posts, appreciate it.

Wife has had the same therapist for the last 5 years she sees roughly bi-weekly. She has an appt in a few weeks with a very good doctor who will be able to ascertain exactly what she has going on. She has already signed up for DBT therapy which as she explained to me actually runs a complete year of sessions.

16D has had the same therapist for a few years, goes maybe every 3 weeks, more now, she is great and they have a strong/good bond.

12D is new to counseling, has had about 5 appts now, the lady is very good and I trust her.

I have a therapist I see when I can. I should go more but life is hectic and as crazy as all this is I cope quite well. It does help me though.

I was awarded a PFA, no contact for me (except text about kids/money), supervised visits for the girls and her, and exclusive rights to the house in May.

That is about expire and all she has been focused on is me and the house. I let her move back in this week and I moved out with the girls.

Some really heavy stuff has happened, she's on level 3 probation and still wantonly harasses and gets upset all the time. We are seeing other people, I do my best to keep that private, shes trying to make me jealous (not working, i wish the guy luck), and things are just messy.

I've read the posts here talking about the Nice Guy, yeah that's me, and it sucks. I could've had her arrested last week but she would've lost her very good job and that would make my situation a lot worse then it already is, at least that is what i tell myself.

I could write for hours right now but I gotta get back to work, check in soon and thank you all for the support.

ETA: In all honesty if she were to pick the kids up today, and the kids were cool, they more then likely wouldn't have a big issue. But I KNOW she would be manipulating them the whole time and they would be really uncomfortable. That is the what if. What would more then likely happen is 12D would refuse to get in the car at school and things would escalate from there, not ending well for anyone.

[Longterm]

Welcome Caddyman.

You are in the right place. We all have similar stories and you will find much support here.

Your story shares similarities with mine. It sounds like you have your priorities in order, the kids. They suffer the most in these situations. They will always gravitate to the more stable parent and they are extremely lucky to have you, you seem very on top of things and I congratulate your efforts so far.

. I am passive in general and allowed her to control us all for a long time which now I regret. 
 

Try not to beat yourself up. The important thing is that you can now make changes and we can help with that.

  They all have an extremely broken relationship and the therapist involved agree they all need space. I look like the bad guy both ways, I am keeping the kids from their mom, and I am also letting the kids down if I don't.

My kids too, apart from the youngest. My kids therapists told them to only have contact if it is consistent and meaningful. This is a tough conundrum and we get that. I personally would respect the children's wishes above anything else.

Keep posting.

LT.

[worriedStepmom]

You have an order in place that says she can only have supervised visitation with the kids. 

That means all she gets is supervised visitation with the kids.  I would not go beyond the order in any way. 

My H has trouble with this with his ex too.  He feels bad and wants to give mom more time when she asks.  But there's an order for a reason, and it ought to be followed.

[NaviDad]

WorriedStepMom you are right, I did have an order, and I waffled on it a tad when she was acting better and the kids kinda missed her there for a while. I will say we are very young for having a 16 y.o. and like I said, we have been together 17 years. The co-dependency, BPD, etc has taken it's toll and I am a very passive person so its been very difficult for me to put my foot down.

The order with regard to the visitation part has expired, I have a lawyer and she did too so the order was custom and not so cut and dry.

I'm here as a result of her buying me walking on egg shells. She is doing everything she can to keep me, while I have been very clear with her about how I feel. She kinda shot herself in the foot buying me this book, it's pretty good, and I need it to help set boundaries.

[worriedStepmom]

This is not easy.  My H and his ex were together 7 years and have been divorced for 10, and he still has trouble setting boundaries with her sometimes.  You've been programmed to appease, and it can be really hard to step out of that. 

The follow up to Stop Walking on Eggshells, "The Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder", by Randi Kreger, is also really good.  My therapist recommended it to me recently.  I also like "Boundaries" by Henry Cloud.

[MeandThee29]

I'm here as a result of her buying me walking on egg shells. She is doing everything she can to keep me, while I have been very clear with her about how I feel. She kinda shot herself in the foot buying me this book, it's pretty good, and I need it to help set boundaries.

That's impressive, but I'm sure you know that a label doesn't mean that the effort will be applied to the problem. If she's already been in therapy for five years, a specialist may not be able to turn the tide. Given that you are in the divorce process, it's on her to stick with it.

I agree that you need to get the custody agreement nailed down and stick to it. Then the agreement will be blamed more than you are blamed, which is a positive of course. It's supposed to be a set boundary.

[ForeverDad]

Personality disorders, especially the acting-out ones such as Borderline, deeply impact the family relationships.  BPD is described as a disorder impacting more the close relationships.  Partly it's because that's where it hits the person with BPD the deepest, also too because they are more likely to let their raw emotions loose on those closest to them who they feel empowered or enabled to target.  That's why so much happens at home or when the family members are in private scenarios.

[NaviDad]

Another long day but not too bad. I put my foot down and told her that I would be picking up 12D and then going to see 16D at her game (she assistant coaches HS volleyball).

ANYWAY, I find out that 16D broke up with her somewhat long time and serious BF at school today and she was not going to go to the game. She was going back to her BFF's house to cry...not good.

So I picked up 12D, then we went to visit 16D and it was good and she was ok'ish all things considered.

Then we went to our house where the wife is staying, the wife and I went for a drive and talked about setting a schedule for her to see the girls. We agreed on monday, wednesday, and a weekend day for a few hours each*. I had already consulted with the girls to ensure they were ok trying that and they are.

I think having a known, set schedule will help them all to be calm and know what they can expect.

So that was good and maybe it will work, we'll see. Wife started pushing the convo into topics like the other people we are seeing, not divorcing, giving her time, etc, and I just didn't answer and don't want to talk about it. She is not ready to talk about it, she is bringing it up knowing that if I am honest with her she will be hurt and I am done lying. It's not healthy and I am not going to entertain that at this time.

My dad just got back from seeing my mom in nashville and brought me some good craft brews, enjoying one now, decent day all things considered. 16D will be ok with the BF stuff, they might end up back together, he's a good kid, we will see.

*I coach 12D's volleyball team on Tuesdays and Thursdays so Monday and Wednesdays is fine for a adult time break for me if they can be cool and enjoy each others company.

[worriedStepmom]

I'm a volleyball parent too - D13 has a game tonight!

You are doing a great job being the problem-solving parent.  Hopefully the schedule - and the limited number of hours - will help your girls.

[Grady]

Welcome Caddy.  I am honestly amazed by how well you are handling things.  It seems as if your ex doesn't really have much power over you anymore.  I have been reading the Walking on Eggshells and that is what led me here.  So much insight in the book and here.

I would suggest letting your L's know about your new visitation plan and getting that formalized as quickly as possible.  The more documentation you have along with the law, the better you will be.  It is always easier to blame the agreement versus you. 

Good luck!

[NaviDad]

Keeping the L and other officials in the situation abreast of things is something I struggle with. She is on level 3 probation for various things and 1 more strike she will probably lose her very good job with very good benefits that the kids seriously need with reference to health care and education soon.

That really is my rock and hard place right now, I know it's the right thing to do to tell authorities and such when she slips up and it would make things easier for me in court, for sure. At the same time though it would also make things A TON more difficult as well.

I am documenting pretty much everything that happens every day, to the nth degree, with evidence as I have it though. I do have security cams, dash cams, phone calls, etc.

She had her first meeting with the DBT person today of the 4 intake appts before she starts the real therapy. I met her for lunch to discuss and its still the same old convo. Talk about the kids, money, good, then veer off into who I am seeing and how she doesn't want to hurt the guy she is seeing and how we need to be together, etc, etc. I am super done with all that.

[worriedStepmom]

Would your L be legally obligated to report whatever it is that you are worried would make her lose her job?

If not, definitely share with the L.  It's better that they have information now because they can help you figure out where to draw the line.  If she's putting anyone in danger - including emotionally or physically abusing your daughters - they you also need to tell the lawyer, even if the consequences suck.