How to not get drawn in, yet not blow them off

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Many of us nons have partners who want us to “manage” their emotions for them. They want us to listen to endless rants about other people, how unfair things are, etc.

Usually we do, thinking we are “helping”, but after a while we realize it’s the same same same, time and again. Nothing changes.

And often they attempt to coerce us into giving an opinion supporting their position. Perhaps we do, just to make it end. But then we set up an unhealthy dynamic.

If we don’t agree, then they claim we aren’t on their side. If we don’t want to participate, they say we don’t care.

How do we gracefully end these dramas? Have you had success in changing this dynamic?

[Cat Familiar]

Many of us nons have partners who want us to “manage” their emotions for them. They want us to listen to endless rants about other people, how unfair things are, etc.

Usually we do, thinking we are “helping”, but after a while we realize it’s the same same same, time and again. Nothing changes.

And often they attempt to coerce us into giving an opinion supporting their position. Perhaps we do, just to make it end. But then we set up an unhealthy dynamic.

If we don’t agree, then they claim we aren’t on their side. If we don’t want to participate, they say we don’t care.

How do we gracefully end these dramas? Have you had success in changing this dynamic?

[Cat Familiar]

I can’t say I’m particularly graceful in handling these issues, but I now get ‘em done.

When told that I don’t care, I might say, “Yes, I don’t care about this issue, but I do care about you.” Or, if the mood is somewhat less intense, “Yep, I’m a heartless b*.”

If told I’m self-absorbed, selfish, unfeeling because I don’t want to participate in these revolving door conversations that go nowhere, “Yes, you’re right,” said with a smile. Or “I’m getting really good at that. Wouldn’t you agree?”

By agreeing,I take all the fun out of the insults and now hear them much less frequently.

[formflier]

. Or “I’m getting really good at that. Wouldn’t you agree?”
 

I'm totally stealing this and will use it next time.

Should have used it last night.  There was a brief harumph and then I was accused of being mad (no reaction from me) and then a bit later she wondered why I was sitting there "all calm".

That's where I wish I would have said "I'm getting really good at that.  Wouldn't you agree?"

Best,

FF

[zachira]

It is difficult indeed not to get drawn into the dramas of a person with BPD. I view the challenge as not getting emotionally drawn into their negative over the top emotions. I think we can try to engage them doing things they like and being positive ourselves. When they start ranting, I just don't see any point in engaging, though I think it does help to not become emotionally engaged, feel or show disapproval, and then take the chance to engage positively when the person with BPD has calmed down and is receptive to positive emotional experiences.

[Ozzie101]

It's especially difficult when the pwBPD has a point in what he's saying -- when there's a nugget of truth in there. It can be easy to get caught up in the emotion and then, later, look back and realize that while, yes, this was right, the level of emotion/method of expression/overall argument was not.

My H (and, from posts I've read around here, he's not alone in this) has told me more than once that he needs the other person to get worked up and angry like he is. His therapist has worked with him some on this, telling him how that's not healthy or helpful. He seems to get it, but he has trouble putting it into practice.

My natural calm seems, to him, like not caring. And he'll push even harder and use triggers to try to goad a response like the one he thinks he needs.

But how do we stay calm, yet still give the message that we care (if not about the situation, at least about them)?

[snowglobe]

Additional challenge in this validation seeking situation is that when and if people with bpd don’t get validation and empathy from their significant others, they either amp up the game- trying to enforce communication through criticisms, insults, micro aggression or trying to provoke a fight or... they go and seek this validation from others, which is creating tribulations with friends, kids and extended families. I do too experience this alternative reality and perpetual cycle of hopelessness and gloom and doom scenario that I no longer care to entertain. Since we purchase a new property, while I succumb to his ultimatums, in the first month he realized that he could not effectively manage the carrying costs of the property as well as family bills. Since I am not validating his concerns (he needs to bare consequences of his actions) he is constantly listening to the you tube videos about the looming and upcoming recession, refuses to sell his shares to keep up with the payments and generally took ostrich position on things. When he believes he is a victim of the upcoming recession, he is no longer obligated to do anything to help himself in regards to business and payments. There isn’t any way of convincing him that it may, or may not be true. Recession, or depression as he calls it, may or may not occur. However, what we can do is sell this product and move into something we can actually afford, but it would seem like a defeat since he did not get a chance to flaunt his wealth in the faces of everyone we know in the community. So I give it more time. Once he gets a chance to do that to the fullest, he will start taking about us being different people and the pressing necessities of getting divorced. Or the possibly another solution to saving our marriage- selling this house and giving him money for the investment... I don’t just at his crazy talking, nor do I validate him and his concerns. I will sign when we will have to sell, which I foresee eventually. I won’t allow him to take the funds, I’ll let the legal system deal with it, or, we will move back to the same kind of house we had before. I am experiencing empathy burn out, no longer do I care about calming him down

[Cat Familiar]

It's especially difficult when the pwBPD has a point in what he's saying -- when there's a nugget of truth in there.

Of course--it makes sense that he would feel that way, but he has a choice in how he acts and what he says.

My H (and, from posts I've read around here, he's not alone in this) has told me more than once that he needs the other person to get worked up and angry like he is.

Needs or wants?

Again, it's a choice, whether or not he understands that yet. Certainly being validated for feeling a certain way makes sense. Attempting to make others respond the same way doesn't. More than that, it is indicative of insecurity. If he feels that his feelings are truly valid, would he really need others to echo his emotions?

My natural calm seems, to him, like not caring. And he'll push even harder and use triggers to try to goad a response like the one he thinks he needs.

But how do we stay calm, yet still give the message that we care (if not about the situation, at least about them)?

By choosing to be disagreeable. By that I don't mean unpleasant, but willing to disagree. "You have every right to feel the way you do. However, I have my own reaction to this circumstance and I don't feel strongly about it. I'm certainly willing to give you my opinion, but it may not be the same as yours. Do you want to hear it or not?"

[Cat Familiar]

It is difficult indeed not to get drawn into the dramas of a person with BPD.

When they start ranting, I just don't see any point in engaging, though I think it does help to not become emotionally engaged, feel or show disapproval, and then take the chance to engage positively when the person with BPD has calmed down and is receptive to positive emotional experiences.

This is an effective  behavioral modification strategy. Reward the behavior you want to see repeated.

[Cat Familiar]

Additional challenge in this validation seeking situation is that when and if people with bpd don’t get validation and empathy from their significant others, they either amp up the game- trying to enforce communication through criticisms, insults, micro aggression or trying to provoke a fight

And if you do participate in this or get your feelings hurt, then you are training them that this is an effective strategy.

or... they go and seek this validation from others, which is creating tribulations with friends, kids and extended families.

Not much you can do about that, other than hold firm to your boundaries.

You had a chance in the past to prevent him selling the family home and moving into the mansion you couldn’t afford. Do you regret agreeing to sign the real estate papers that allowed him this opportunity to over encumber your family with debt?

Have you ever said no to him and stuck to your decision?

[snowglobe]

And if you do participate in this or get your feelings hurt, then you are training them that this is an effective strategy.

Not much you can do about that, other than hold firm to your boundaries.

You had a chance in the past to prevent him selling the family home and moving into the mansion you couldn’t afford. Do you regret agreeing to sign the real estate papers that allowed him this opportunity to over encumber your family with debt?

Have you ever said no to him and stuck to your decision?

I regret selling our previous home greatly, things not only didn’t get better, they deteriorated much quicker since we moved. I should have let him get mad, leave and face the consequences of his actions. We are both learning a painful and valuable lesson. His comes from realizing he can’t afford the mansion, me- learning to say I firm no, and stick to it 

[Ozzie101]

Needs or wants?

Oh, it's definitely a want. He just has trouble seeing the difference sometimes. It's the emotional immaturity and insecurity in him. Strong feelings coupled with disordered thinking and inability to regulate. Like you said, if others feel it, it validates his feelings and then he's not "wrong." Thing is, when he's in a calm time, he knows and will admit that his way of thinking isn't right or healthy. But when he's dysregulating, self-awareness goes out the window. Again, not uncommon around here.

"You have every right to feel the way you do. However, I have my own reaction to this circumstance and I don't feel strongly about it. I'm certainly willing to give you my opinion, but it may not be the same as yours. Do you want to hear it or not?"

Yep. I've started working on this (or something like it) and I'm finding it easier to stay calm. For one thing, my H tipped his hand. He's told me that he knowingly uses personal triggers to get a reaction out of other people. That makes it even easier for me to see exactly what he's doing. When I know the other person's hand, it's easier for me to stay calm and see the other person's actions for what they are: manipulation.

I'm getting better at the not getting sucked in and staying calm part. It's the not blowing off part I still don't have a good handle on. That's something we may just need to work through as he learns to accept that my reaction is just different from his and I learn how to express care in a way he'll accept but that won't violate my own feelings and personality.