Mom's 5 Acres Up For Auction

[Turkish]

I received a notice from the county tax collector as I am a person with interest.  The deed is in her dead husband's name. She switched it in the late 90s to avoid taxes for a reason I could never figure out.  The recoup is currently a little under $14k. This mess was all from property taxes which were about $120/ month, easily payable on her $1400/mo SSI, paid off mortgage. I was hesitant to pay, given that California is paying her care and I signed court documents that she had no assets.

I could maybe flip the property for an easy $30k given the hoard mess which is epic. She never transferred it back into her name which I found out later was easy, opposite to what she told me for years. Unnecessary BPD mess. I'm going to let it go which may not be logical, but I don't want to expose myself to the government coming after me. I'll focus on doing what I'm doing and providing for my kids. I'll leave them a real inheritance if i croak tonight.

The money isn't the thing, but broken promises, like forcing me to play the baritone horn in 5th grade because no one plays that and I could get college music scholarships. When I started high school, there were two baritone players at our small high school and they had me switch instruments.  Then junior and senior year she was zero help with college other than shaming me.

[Panda39]

It's a mixed bag letting go of that land.  It is your childhood home for better or worse.  A place of difficulty but also where some of your oldest friends are from too.  I'm glad you are letting it go, and are/have moved forward.  If you want some land buy some somewhere else, start fresh.  There might be some mourning to do regarding the land, the good and bad associated with it.

Panda 39

[zachira]

So frustrating the messes our family members with BPD create. You are smart to not get involved, knowing how it might affect you emotionally and how what starts out as something that is easy to resolve often gets more complicated when it involves a person with BPD.

[Turkish]

I only lived there half a winter until the following fall, maybe 10 months.

Now I understand what my mom's husband's estranged kids never cared about that and his other 2 acres (which I think I might pick up the taxes on). Live on, move on.

[Methuen]

Hi Turkish,

I'm going to let it go which may not be logical, but I don't want to expose myself to the government coming after me.

It sounds quite logical to me, under the circumstances.  I can understand how conflicted you must be about it all.  So many complicated angles, and emotions about the property, the memories, the broken promises, the decisions she made, and the many different kinds of costs to you now which are downstream consequences of all that.  It sounds really yucky.   

So letting it go seems both logical, and symbolic (since money isn't the object, but the broken promises are hurting)

I'll focus on doing what I'm doing and providing for my kids.

This sounds like a really good plan to help you refocus on the positives in your life, after this bump in the road.

Hopefully this is the hardest part (making the decision) as it involves a lot of thinking and reflection.  I hope it gets easier and you start to feel a little better once the decision is made, and you move forward.

[TelHill]

Turkish,

This is the smart thing to do.  You don't know what other financial issues might come up. There could be credit card defaults, unpaid bills, IRS issues,  etc., that go along with this.  IME, this stuff can be a Pandora's Box if opened.

That and the emotional baggage would be too hard for me to take on.

[formflier]

Have you had a chat with a L about your potential liability? 

I've done quite a bit of real estate and offhand, I have a hard time seeing how "they come after you."

Since it's not in her name, I would focus your legal questions on whose name is it in and how does that get put into your name (or how do you control that land) if you catch up the taxes.

If you buy it at auction you should have a much cleaner title to it, but you expose yourself to the price going higher than what is owed.

I've bought tons of properties at the courthouse steps, but none through tax auction.  That seems to be a more specialized group of investors.

Can I challenge you to look at it this way.

For relatively little work and some emotional energy I can put an extra $15k in my kids inheritance (or somehow to their benefit). 

How does that compare to what else you would have to do in order to "grab" another $15k for them.

I can help you talk through the questions with your L to make sure you get clear title...if you are interested.


Best,

FF

[Turkish]

$15k I could come up with, and I might not be liable to continue the clean up, as my mom was targeted by the county to do so. The thing is that I stated on court documents that she has no other assets other than her bank account.

I could rescue it,  and continue to pay rather cheap taxes for years... Then deal with it at a later date.  Flipping it for $15k is nothing to me given where I'm at otherwise. 

His original 2 acres, however, is interesting to me as I actually lived there in a camper, then sleeping on his couch in the cabin after my mom grew uncomfortable sleeping with 13 year old me at the time in the cab over.  And my mother accepted $10k for that property from the neighbors, our friends, blew it, and years later said they never gave her money.  So it's an honor thing with me.  Pay the taxes, and at some point with a lawyer consult, get the property to them for cheap. Then I could visit it any time I wanted to. 

Being 120 miles away makes it a little hard to deal with also. 

[formflier]

Turkish,

Totally feel your pain (or your thoughts of pain) of long distance real estate ownership.  I have an eviction court date set in a couple weeks a bit over 500 miles away.  Ugg.  I always have lots to do when I head that way, but I really would rather not go and stay home and get stuff worked off my list here.


OK.  Are the 2 acres and 5 acres adjoining?

When they say cleanup, what are they talking about?  Brush and that kind of thing or does it look like a junkyard?

OK, so $15 k isn't that big of a thing do you, so then flip the argument.  Let's say you "get caught" and the state of california wants $$ and you loose $15k.  Doesn't the same analysis work..that it's not that big of a deal?


What if you look at the emotional argument.  It's a mess, you step in and clean it up, make some money as well.  It doesn't change the past but doesn't it "change the taste" later in life?

I say this because I've struggled with certain properties...struggled to make rational decisions and frankly I'm making only emotional decisions and I'm thankful I have the $$ to be able to do so.


Best,

FF

[Turkish]

 My mom was a hoarder. Think the worst examples from the tv show. When I last visited the home in December when it was cold, I almost gagged and thought that I would bring a respirator if I were to return in the warmer months.  Mildew, smoke, animal waste, and black mold. Collapsing ceilings.  It needs 5 gallons of diesel and a match.

I have a letter to pick up from the post office which I will do Saturday. Perhaps it's related to that (I hope and not something else).

[TelHill]

Hi Turkish,

Am not sure how ownership is passed to a person of interest. I am in the same state as you.  I do know if your late step father named her as the recipient of it in a will, it’s hers. If he left no will, it’s hers since she is next of kin. Kids are secondary in this instance.

If you will continue to have prop. 13 protection for this place, it’ll cause problems for you & mom. Flipping it quickly won’t get you or mom off the hook.If a person of interest means the county will reassess property taxes, just like a new owner, that’s great.

Am guessing mom may have had creditors chasing her to not do a deed change to the property.  State and county governments here poke around only with changes. It alerts them. No changes, you won’t hear from them.

Am definitely not a lawyer! Have had many relatives die in this state and their children go at each other for the property. Have learned a lot.

Good luck and take care!

[Turkish]

I would mean to pay the taxes then sit on it until she passes, then take ownership and flip.  Yes, before the state and possibly medicare, she had creditors. The last one called me about a $15k ambulance bill. I ignored it and they never called back. Maybe  7 years ago or more, she signed up for the wrong Medicare supplement and was hit with a $30k bill for an MRI. Line everything else, she ignored it.

Again, the money itself isn't the issue, I'll lose far more than that when the market opens tomorrow due to the corona virus.

[formflier]

Maybe I missed it earlier.

Is this land close to or adjoining the other 2 acres?

Listen Turkish, I'm going to nudge you to pay up the taxes and hang on this. 

Let's just say it's fair to say you have a complicated relationship with your Mom and this land..right? 

Money is not an issue.

Lot's of "messes".

Someday she will pass away and you will be contemplating lots of things.  I spend lots of time at my parents property (that I grew up in) and also at my farm (used to be my dads and grand dads and great gran dads).  There is something about walking over where they used to walk, sitting on a fence post and looking at the same field...

I have mainly happy memories, but there is always stuff.  There are things to fix, messes to clean up.

Perhaps cleaning up the mess will help you with closure at some point (before or after your Mom passes). 

At least if you control the property, you have the option.  Once it's gone...it's gone.

I obviously "projected" a lot of my feelings and habits onto your situation, so think about if any of this rings true for you.

Best,

FF

[Turkish]

Sorry I forgot to answer, the 2 acres is a few canyons and anther thousand feet in elevation away. It's 10 miles by county roads. My friends (my BFF's dad) have a acreage almost adjacent, hence their interest.  

Me? I'm looking to retire likely to Idaho in 12 to 15 years.

[formflier]

So it sounds like it's not the money that matters here...right?

There is a "cost" to inaction and that "cost" is the loss of "opportunity cost" in the future.

You may never ever be able to control this land again. 

Sure, there are complications and things to legally sort out, but there appear to be time to do that, assuming the taxes get caught up. (soon)

So...is it safe to say this is really an "emotional" decision?  (it may not be, I'm still trying to "frame the discussion")

I know lots of people that love Idaho.  Ever been to Montana?   Awesome big sky type of stuff out there.

I doubt it would ever work out, but if things ever lined up for me to end up there...no resistance on my part. 

Best,

FF

[Harri]

Hi Turkish!

One of the best things I did was get rid of just about all of my parents belongings.  I have two things that I have kept because I want them.  My brother has what was not sold at the estate sale or thrown out.

12 years on from my moms death and 10 from my dads and I regret nothing.  There is a sense of sadness because it was all such a waste.  Sadness because people, in general, collect things, and most of them are things people do not want ... there were antiques that were valuable if you were into that sort of thing and finding someone who wanted them was too much of a hassle for me.  Same with the house.  Not much good happened there and there was no closure even after my mom died and I moved back in with my dad for a while due to my own medical issues.  I got closure my own way.  The house has increased in value quite a bit since we sold it as it is in a prime location (in most peoples eyes).  I did not want it.  It was sad, depressing and had too many painful and traumatic memories that seemed to have seeped into the walls.  I drive by it every once in a while and I feel nothing but relief that I did not buy out my brother and keep it even for rental income.  

I have heard you talk of this property before, your moms that is, and you have never had even the slightest nice thing to say about it.

The 2 acres on the other hand, that seems more doable and seems to be something you can and want to work with in terms of making the past right... or as right as can be.

Just thinking out loud with you here.

[Turkish]

Over 20 years  ago, my mom talked about putting me on the deed. That was before she transferred it to her future husband to escape taxes which didn't make sense to me at the time. She told me that she knew parents who did that and ended up on the street due to greedy children who kicked parents off the property.  All I could think at the time was,  "hello? This child is 'in the room!'"

I have a home in thar silicon valley (sure, in kind of a ghetto, but still), and have been saving in a retirement account since 1992. I don't need to greed on 5 hoard acres. Yet she cast me as one of those greedy kids. Yes, it was insulting.

[formflier]

That was before she transferred it to her future husband to escape taxes which didn't make sense to me at the time. 

And I hope it doesn't make sense now. 

I'm not aware of any shenanigans that can be done to escape paying property taxes.

Yes, each state has some nuances about the manner in which they can be collected, in the state I was a county manager in, if a county failed to start the collection action in 10 years AND no new property tax arrears came up there was a technical way to escape collection (having a county somehow NOT start collection attempts of a debt within 10 years).

The basic "rule" is...a county doesn't care who pays..just that it gets paid.  And if there is a disagreement about who is supposed to pay, the county will put it up for auction and let the people paying it fight about it in civil court.

Anyway do you know how long you to decide?

How long has it been since you have been to either property?,

If you owned them either one or both, would you feel obligated to visit?  I have a parcel and house about 13 hours away that I haven't visited or done anything with in...years.  I've responded and taken action when complaints have been made and government reached out to me.  Other than that..it's on hold (and I don't give it much thought)

It's "third in line" to be disposed of.  I sold one last year.  I have another that should go this spring, then perhaps another, then I'll deal with 13 hours away (so probably no for another year...if things go well)

I have buddies in real estate that would be bonkers at letting something sit like that.  Doesn't bother me.

Anyway...glad you are thinking this through Turkish.

Best,

FF

[Methuen]

Hi Turkish,

This sounds like it is causing so much angst for you.

This is a big variety of problems on this board, but a common denominator is the bad decisions that borderlines make, leaving us a trail or problems and broken relationships to try to clean up.

Emotional stuff aside, and "clean up" aside, would a trip to a lawyer to get some "legal" facts perhaps help bring any clarity one way or the other for you?

[zachira]

I am really admiring Harri's wisdom in letting go of her family's possessions because of all the bad memories attached to them. My mother always held over her children's heads the importance of material things and never seemed to be able to talk about anything else. It seems my siblings are going to take all the possessions from my mother's house, and for now I feel mostly at peace with that. Turkish, please do think carefully about whether you want this land, that brings up so many painful memories. I think the money you are thinking of investing in this land, my be better spent acquiring property that has no painful past attached to it.

[GaGrl]

One of the healthiest actions I was my mother do regarding her uBPD/BPD stepmother was to choose NOT to contest first, her father's will -- which SGM had  drawn up and "signed" and witnessed in the hospital when GF had Alzheimers-- then later the SGM's will that cut out my mom. We had some items that were sentimental, and mom didn't need the money.   It absolutely was her way of letting go of the many years of emotional pain inflicted by her stepmother.

[Harri]

This thread reached the post limit and has been locked and split.  The discussion continues here:  

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=342604.0

Thank you.