Can a pwBPD improve by only one family member (me) changing things?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Question:

Can a person with BPD truly improve by only one family member (me) changing things?

In my NC I have absolutely no doubts that I stopped being my moms rescuer, but if my other family members have continued to provide that role she will get no consistency. She will be enabled.

I may be stronger and not as affected (true this is a goal) but I guess I am ticked off that lack of knowledge from my siblings may be making mom worse.

Does anyone share similarly?

I’ll ask my question again.

Can a person with BPD truly improve by only one family member (me) changing things?

[Imatter33]

Question:

Can a person with BPD truly improve by only one family member (me) changing things?

In my NC I have absolutely no doubts that I stopped being my moms rescuer, but if my other family members have continued to provide that role she will get no consistency. She will be enabled.

I may be stronger and not as affected (true this is a goal) but I guess I am ticked off that lack of knowledge from my siblings may be making mom worse.

Does anyone share similarly?

I’ll ask my question again.

Can a person with BPD truly improve by only one family member (me) changing things?

[Person2]

It “takes a village”, right!

Outside of our, and others stopping enabling, I think the only hope is that the BPD get some type of professional help, which is unlikely since the disorder blocks the ability to self-reflect and to recognize the impact their behavior has on others. They aren’t able to realize that they have this disorder.

[pursuingJoy]

Imatter, I want to say yes to your question. I was an adult when my very submissive mom finally got up the courage to stand up to my abusive dad for cheating and divorced him. It affected my entire FOO. We were all forced to look at ourselves, at our family, and reassess everything we thought we knew. It took years to see the shock-wave effects of her choice, but the effects became evident when we all started making different decisions than my dad had trained us to make. 

My decisions to break from family norms have had less effect on the FOO than my mom's, maybe because the matriarchal role is a more powerful one. A brother who was staunchly against a decision I made 13 years ago praised me last month for "being so brave."

Has your NC created some ripples or discomfort for the family?

Can you give an example of something enabling that's happened, or is it kind of a general sense you're getting from your siblings?

[SepiaScarf]

That's a tough question.

I think the answer is no, there is part of me that thinks even if your other family members did change their behavior its possible that mom would find sources outside the FOO to triangulate with. My mom has done so when she couldn't get her needs met.

I try to focus on changing me, and passing along whatever information my FOO seems open to, in hopes that it will make there lives and relationships better, that's sorta the "parenting role" I take as my siblings are all younger.

I don't know what it is that would trip a BPD into getting real help, my mom was rock bottom, as they say, living in a motel with no job, away from family, could not get state assistance (according to her) then had a suicide attempt which landed her impatient even in those moment she would not take help, she found a friend to live with when we all placed the boundary of her not living with us. She has point blank said she does not need therapy there is nothing wrong with her.

I still really hope I am wrong, always hung up on the hope

SS

[TelHill]

I am not sure what you mean by improving. Am guessing fewer symptoms being displayed?

My dBPDm is less reactive to me now that I’ve followed the tips and tools here.  I feel I have accepted her inability to love me unconditionally. I’m still grieving but am not blaming her or really angry. Things may be different for you. Take care! 

[Imatter33]

Has your NC created some ripples or discomfort for the family?

Can you give an example of something enabling that's happened, or is it kind of a general sense you're getting from your siblings?

PJ, I think its more of a feeling right now. I only have some older second hand knowledge of things my sister did a couple of months ago. But I am reading Randi Kregers book "The Essential Family Guide to BPD" and well I got to the part about stop being the rescuer. I am 99% sure my sister is in that role now. Not that I can do a d*mn thing about it, but I am very empathic and I wonder how my sister is handling my mom!  

Yet we don't talk about Mom at all since my NC.
i know this is about the third time I am writing this out. But I am secretly hoping my mom is getting help from a professional right now, and if not there is a good chance my sister is running around ragged.

I care for her in this perceptual way, she is on my mind and heart and yet she remains a person unwilling to see mom as anything but quirky... I know that sounds familiar.  

I guess the good thing is because I am so removed, I cannot function as my sisters rescuer either. And this used to make me feel closer to her, and needed.

Will my sister (and other siblings)  ever not see me as moms persecutor?
I know you cannot answer that for me.
Time and time again my heart breaks for a level of intimacy that isn't in the cards between us as sisters.

Another wound to let heal I suppose.

Thanks to the others that offered answers. Hope remains in this forum! 

[Methuen]

I was an adult when my very submissive mom finally got up the courage to stand up to my abusive dad for cheating and divorced him. It affected my entire FOO. We were all forced to look at ourselves, at our family, and reassess everything we thought we knew.

I think PJ's example is an inspiring one, which illustrates we can never fortell what a difference something will make, or what the future holds, based on a decision made or a path taken in the present.

I hear you that it it seems hopeless to expect change or "improvement" from your mom, if other family members don't put effort into practicing the same positive strategies you are using surrounding BPD's.  There's no consistency right?

And yet over my life, I have marvelled at the stories I have heard or which have been shared with me, about how even a small thing (something said, a kind gesture, or a change in behavior) made a momentus change in a person's life.  I think we can't predict how a positive change we make (in your case using new BPD friendly skills with your mom) might impact someone else.

Ultimately, is that the only goal?

Perhaps another important thing is just to do what feels right for YOU, and let the chips fall where they may.

[Mata]

Question:

Can a person with BPD truly improve by only one family member (me) changing things?

Maybe? My cynical side says a pwBPD can rarely truly improve.  But my less cynical side says it's certainly possible.  We never know what thing, big or small might make a person want to get better.  I do believe the pwBPD has to, themselves, want to improve or nothing can change.  Even if the whole family is on board and does everything "right" the pwBPD may stay the same.  (Although the rest of the family would surely be better off I suppose.    

[zachira]

I think a pwBPD can learn to put on a false face and pretend to behave better when threatened with certain consequences, though the change is temporary.

[Harri]

Short answer to the question in the OP:

Yes.

We read about it here all the time.   We teach people what we will allow in our relationships.

Is it easier if everyone in the family is on the same page?  Sure, but it is not necessary.

Will my sister (and other siblings)  ever not see me as moms persecutor?

Maybe.     I don't think my brother has ever seen me as anything but being wrong when it came to my mom.  Over time, especially after my mom died, things got better in terms of how we talk to and relate to each other (read more below).   It required, and still requires, radical acceptance from me and reminding myself he can have his own opinions and perceptions.

Time and time again my heart breaks for a level of intimacy that isn't in the cards between us as sisters.

I hear you on this.  My relationship with my brother is okay distant but close in some ways too.  It still hurts though as there is just too much history there between us.  Plus I don't think we know how to be siblings.  We care about each other but don't hang out.  If I need someone to talk with, he is not someone I call though if I need him to help me with something he will and i would do the same for him.

Another wound to let heal I suppose.

Sometimes I think these wounds we have don't ever really heal but we can take care of them and make sure they don't get infected or get worse.  Sorry, kind of gross there.  I have had ongoing wound care from nurses for over 6 years now.  It is a hassle and a challenge, sometimes more than others, but life is still doable. 

 

[Imatter33]

I think PJ's example is an inspiring one, which illustrates we can never fortell what a difference something will make, or what the future holds, based on a decision made or a path taken in the present.

 even a small thing (something said, a kind gesture, or a change in behavior) made a momentus change in a person's life.  I think we can't predict how a positive change we make (in your case using new BPD friendly skills with your mom) might impact someone else.

Ultimately, is that the only goal?

Perhaps another important thing is just to do what feels right for YOU, and let the chips fall where they may.

I am far too positive a person to believe that there will be no impact from just my change, I just wanted to hear from others.

And the consistency ultimately will come from me...learning to operate consistently in my own life, "do whats right and let the chips fall." I will be thinking of this a lot.

I think a pwBPD can learn to put on a false face and pretend to behave better when threatened with certain consequences, though the change is temporary.

Oof. Thank you for sharing this with me Z. Bc this is where I kind of left off in counseling. So what if I have new boundaries and mom plays nice bc she is so eager to see me again. She respects and does her best to keep them. The nature of the disorder is she will mess it up.    I have to be consistent.
I also have to learn this skill because darn it! My mom was my teacher...

I have hope in myself. I have too. I feel like I am in recovery and wishing I could take the flight of stairs, but have been told to "take it easy." Patience is hard when my heart wants to reach out to mom, but my head says..."Why? so you fall down those stairs?"

Take it slow. Practice. Take it easy on yourself.


Copying this here and for me and anyone else it can help.
"Guilt is your enemy for two reasons. First it makes you feel bad and makes you miserable, second it blurs your thinking and can cause you to make the wrong decisions. As for the first, when you feel guilty, tell yourself that guilt is a luxury you cannot afford, as tempting as it may be not to, you need to put your energy elsewhere. Then do it." -Randi Kreger (the essential family guide to BPD, pg 136)
"

[Methuen]

So what if I have new boundaries and mom plays nice bc she is so eager to see me again. She respects and does her best to keep them. The nature of the disorder is she will mess it up. I have to be consistent.

I think you've hit the nail right on the head imatter.  I have a personal example to share from this morning.  This a.m., I thought I better reach out to my uBPD mom b/c I've been LC for a couple of weeks while I was ill.  She started telling me her story about her trip to her dentist yesterday.  His office is up 3 flights of stairs (no elevator).  (The back story is that for 2 years she's been seeing a different dentist because the stairs at her preferred dentist were a BIG barrier for her. She's 83 and extremely frail with big mobility problems, and a serious "fall" risk.)  She asked a friend to drive her to her preferred dentist appt (I was unavailable), and she said her friend helped her up the 3 flights of stairs or "she would have never been able to make it".  Then there was a long pause.  My guilty brain was screaming at me during this pause that I should be offering to take her to her future dentist appointments because it's my duty (not her friend's), but the little voice at the back of my head was "shushing" my FOG, thanks to everything I continue to learn about BPD.  The pause finally ended somehow.  A few minutes later (she's still talking about this dentist), she volunteered that the staff had told her the next time she wanted an appt, she could call them from downstairs, and they would come down to help her up the stairs...

My brain is processing this as OMG! That was easy!  

If I had let my FOG take over during the pause in that conversation, I would have committed myself to doing something (i.e. "rescued") which I resented, and which she was capable of solving herself.  Instead because I listened to that "shushing" voice at the back of my head, I discovered she had already found a solution for this problem.  I confess that as my FOG and the little "shushing" voice were duking it out in my brain, I was kind of panicky not knowing what to do.  Because I was able to hold my boundary (of letting mom find her own solutions to her problems and not jumping in to rescue her because of FOG), the situation resolved itself and we are both happy.

For me and my path to personal growth in dealing with my BPD mom,  I think I am questioning what part I have played in all this relationship strife.  Perhaps by jumping in to rescue her all these years (as she raised me to feel like I need to do), I am starting to see that the rescuing did more damage than good in the relationship.  Now, the more I stick to my boundaries, the better mom behaves.  BPD is a bugger; we learn to rescue because we are taught to do it, and that it is the right thing to do, and unlearning that is really difficult.

So the quote you included from Randi Kreger hit home for me too.

"Guilt is your enemy for two reasons. First it makes you feel bad and makes you miserable, second it blurs your thinking and can cause you to make the wrong decisions."

How often does FOG mean WE make a wrong decision?  I am a little embarrassed to confess I have never thought of it that way before.

The other bugger, is to just "let go" and "let" them make their own decisions even when we know they are bad decisions.  We can still use SET, and validating questions to help them consider the pros and cons, but then give them the autonomy to make their own decision, and live with the consequences.  Sometimes it can be soo hard not to tell someone what to do, when the safest/smartest/wisest/healthiest decision is so obvious to US, but they make a different decision.  I know I have always tried to use logic, rational thinking, and pursuasion to "help" my mom.  But now, Live and let live is my new mantra.

I'm really glad you asked the question imatter, because it forced me to think  deeper.  Goodness this road to change and healing is a hard and long one.

[TelHill]

I think a pwBPD can learn to put on a false face and pretend to behave better when threatened with certain consequences, though the change is temporary.

zachira, Yes to this. Have been lured in the past to engage with my FOO, thinking I had influenced dBPDm to act kindly.

The same awful emotional abuse, manipulation & gaslighting start up again. 

[Spindle0516]

My brain is processing this as OMG! That was easy!  

If I had let my FOG take over during the pause in that conversation, I would have committed myself to doing something (i.e. "rescued") which I resented, and which she was capable of solving herself.  

Methuen- yay you!   

[Imatter33]

Methuen I was also celebrating your ability to not rescue!Something that is worth pointing out is the fact that BPD is on a spectrum like many other disorders. I have to remind myself of that a lot.
And perhaps the hardest thing is there is not a good way to measure where our loved one falls. But I have to believe there is potential for some people with the disorder to recover and some to not.

I use recover because it’s a label used often by BPD populations.
Also in the book I am reading.
Recovering BPD.

I don’t really know what my mom is capable of yet.

[Methuen]

Thank you imatter and spindle.

But I have to believe there is potential for some people with the disorder to recover and some to not.

My T says BPD's can recover through treatment, but most don't want treatment, and two different T's I have had, also say that BPD is either the hardest, or one of the hardest disorders to treat.  Many BPD's who start, quit.

I haven't met anyone on this board in my six months on here, who speaks about a recovered BPD they know, although I have read comments from recovered BPD's in books.

I have also read that some BPD's "outgrow" their BPD by their middle life years.  I haven't read any examples of that on this board either.  Lucky for those family members.

I sometimes talk about "my" recovery on this board, but I speak in terms of how I am learning to take care of myself, and communicate in more BPD friendly ways with my uBPD mom.  I am learning how to change my behavior to cope better with her behavior.  I am trying to learn how to live my own life again.  

I appreciate your words of encouragement and celebration.  

Not offering to help my BPD mom up the stairs is counter-intuitive to the type of person I am.  I love to help people, and have made helping others a part of my career and volunteer work.  So staying silent during that pause in the conversation with my mom was one of the hardest things I have ever done (not rescuing her).  I guess I put the story on here, so that other's can see it's ok to look after ourselves, and discover the story had a happy ending because mom found her own way to solve this problem, although it took her two years!

A happy ending in a chapter to a much longer story...

I don’t really know what my mom is capable of yet.

So true, but what I am discovering is that we have have to give them the chance to figure it out themselves, although it sure feels like tough love at the time.

Yes, I agree there's a spectrum for sure.   If my mom wasn't on anti-depressants things would be much worse.  I feel I am very fortunate.

[Imatter33]

I sometimes talk about "my" recovery on this board, but I speak in terms of how I am learning to take care of myself, and communicate in more BPD friendly ways with my uBPD mom.  I am learning how to change my behavior to cope better with her behavior.  I am trying to learn how to live my own life again.  

 

I appreciate your words of encouragement and celebration.

Oh absolutely. It is great to celebrate victories.   

 I guess I put the story on here, so that other's can see it's ok to look after ourselves, and discover the story had a happy ending because mom found her own way to solve this problem, although it took her two years!
we have have to give them the chance to figure it out themselves, although it sure feels like tough love at the time.

I don't know what comes next for me exactly. I have poured a lot of myself into finding information, getting a T, posting here, and reflecting reflecting reflecting. I think I need permission given to myself to take a breather. BPD has been on my mind every single day.

I'm really gonna run with the no guilt thing and see where I end up.

I'll post that very good quote again.


"Guilt is your enemy for two reasons. First it makes you feel bad and makes you miserable, second it blurs your thinking and can cause you to make the wrong decisions. As for the first, when you feel guilty, tell yourself that guilt is a luxury you cannot afford, as tempting as it may be not to, you need to put your energy elsewhere. Then do it." -Randi Kreger (the essential family guide to BPD, pg 136)

[Methuen]

Take your time imatter.  I found I needed a period of NC to heal my own mental health to a certain base level, before I could even contemplate contact with my mom again.

I don't know what comes next for me exactly. I have poured a lot of myself into finding information, getting a T, posting here, and reflecting reflecting reflecting.

Good for you imatter.  I've been in this zone too for 6 months.  It can get better.

I think I need permission given to myself to take a breather. BPD has been on my mind every single day.

Yes yes.  It's a LOT to process.  Take it at your own pace.  Follow your gut and work on "you" I think it's also important to balance this kind of "work" with doing things that bring joy in life too.

guilt is a luxury you cannot afford, as tempting as it may be not to, you need to put your energy elsewhere. Then do it." -Randi Kreger

absolutely

[Harri]

I think I need permission given to myself to take a breather. BPD has been on my mind every single day.

Taking a break is a good thing to do.  I did and sometimes still do.  It is necessary.  We get it and I hope you can find some peace.

One thing I want to mention is that when i responded earlier, I was responding strictly to the question of whether or not things can improve.  I see now that the convo and maybe the question was more about the pwBPD recovering just through our efforts to change us.  I do not believe the latter, ie recovery, is possible through our efforts but improvement is a definite possibility.  Again, we read about it all the time here.  I am someone who was able to improve things in my relationship with my mom.  It was never a healthy mainstream mother daughter relationship but that was not a reasonable goal for me to have.  Things did improve and yes my mom did improve many of the ways she interacted with me.  In that sense, we both changed.