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Author Topic: Managing Expectations, Are We Part of the Problem?  (Read 359 times)
Thoroughbred

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
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« on: February 17, 2020, 07:44:23 PM »

I'm wondering why so many of us that live with a BPD make a default choice to accept the status quo and feel miserable.

I just recently came across this site, a few days ago to be exact. My wife has BPD and has announced more than once that as we get older and have more health needs, she bluntly doesn't plan to take care of me; I'll be on my own.  So I stopped by here to get some advice on how to plan for that.

While I've been here, I've also spent a lot of time reading some of the soul wrenching stories from the other members posting here. And I wonder... why do we seem to accept their erratic behavior as our 'normal'.  When did we abdicate control of our life to someone that's out of control? Like I did for over 40 years (sometimes I'm a slow learner).

What I'm really trying to ask here, Why do we continually choose to live each day walking on eggshells? is it our expectations of eventually having a 'normal' relationship with someone that has abnormal behavior that keeps us so miserable living with a BPD, that they'll eventually figure it out?  Or is it that the miserable rut we're caught in is more comfortable than the risk of stepping out and changing our environment or even our outlook on life?

The reason I ask is because not too long ago I had a therapist that I really appreciated - he was a no-nonsense guy.  What he told me during one session was, look, don't expect that she will EVER be a loving, warm and fuzzy person towards you.  Don't expect her to react normally to situations outside her comfort zone.  Don't expect her to stop the abusive behavior towards you because she won't.  Once you come to terms with setting those proper expectations about her, then and only then can you decide how you're going to handle your life and your life decisions going forward. Her mental illness does not have to control your life  - you've made that decision to allow it. She won't get over it, so you'd better.

There's no easy answers for the circumstances that we all cope with. But when it comes to our personal life expectations, shouldn't we be more proactive at taking our life back? Are we a part of the problem for our own unhappiness?
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Gemsforeyes
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Relationship status: Ended 2/2020
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« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2020, 03:46:42 PM »

Hi Talltom-

You ask questions we all ask ourselves.  It’s torture.  My 19-year marriage ended the night he threw me across the room.  There was a very brief period leading up to that night when I felt a drastic change in him, and I began questioning him.  Although my T at the time didn’t say “abuse”, and he had done couples with us, right before that night, the T said “Gems, you have GOT to get out of this marriage”.  I was floored by that statement.

But since I’ve really been looking at that relationship (and my current one) in therapy, I’ve been made to admit I was manipulated and abused for most of those 19 years... I was aware that I twisted myself inside out trying to keep my exH happy.  It was an impossible task.

This past week I ended my 6.5-year relationship with my uBPDbf (undiagnosed BPD boyfriend).  He exhibits much greater RAGE than my exH and is heavy on the narc traits.  I found this site nearly 3 years ago when I searched the phrase “unprovoked rage in men”.  I used the communication tools, tried to establish boundaries, etc.  and engaged constantly in my delusion of forgive and forget (due to my own ability to disassociate).  But I’d journal to remember things he said and did.

Our communication and relationship did improve in many ways.  However, he continued to lie, rage, gaslight, completely lack in empathy and it just became too too much... with too too little return.  And this guy is so covertly incested with his mother, it was making both of us sick.  And the old lady started interfering in OUR relationship, because her husband passed a year ago.  I will not go up against that.  And he’s too weak to kindly assert himself, has placed himself at her feet, and would not obtain therapy for help.  Each moment he was with me, he was screaming about his mother.  Or hating someone or something.  I’ve NOTHING left and no way to help him.

Sometimes I don’t know when to throw in the towel.  I had a horrible time ending my marriage, and I struggled for years with this relationship with my BPDbf.  But I’ve realized that for me, adult love is NOT... CANNOT be unconditional.  It’s just not.  My BPDbf could apologize at times for his behavior, when I would be specific and loving about how his words and actions affected me.  And he DID change certain things.  But he would NOT take responsibility for the most vital things.  So he killed us.  I’m sorry he did that.  He admitted he needed help, therapy, but he didn’t do it.

So I don’t see this the same as cancer, as leaving a man with cancer.  I see this as leaving someone who has placed the burden of EVERYTHING, all his responsibilities, on me. In the most dismissive and disrespectful manner possible.  And I see me as a person who has finally, said “enough”.  Farewell.

I stayed in these relationships because I didn’t value myself enough.  I now understand why that was, and that is no longer the case.  It takes work to get there... letting go of fear.

I’m 62.  My chances of finding love again are pretty slim.  But I’m so so aware now, actually have always been aware that I could NOT love him to wellness.  It just cannot matter anymore... the things he did FOR me is NOTHING compared with the horrible things he did TO me.

This is my reeeeally long answer to your question “are we a part of the problem for our own happiness?”  Yes.  We are.

Your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes
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Thoroughbred

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« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2020, 06:03:15 PM »

Gems...
Thank you so much for stopping by and sharing.  I read through your message a few times and there was one specific phrase you said that really jumped back out at me. I think it perfectly described what I was thinking of when I wrote my original message..."I can't love him(her) back to wellness."

I've read through a lot of the messages here since I first logged on a few days ago, and the pain, and the distraught emotions are vivid and raw.  And I was almost getting the sense that "If I try a little harder, just do a little better..." things will be better. He/She will see how much I love him/her.

So in my case I wrote what I did about expectations, simply because I don't have many anymore.  I don't expect her to ever go to therapy. I don't expect her to ever acknowledge that she needs help. I don't expect her to ever get better. 

I also expect that I'm not going to be the only half of this relationship to try to make things better. I've spent 45 years trying to do that, and I've finally learned that the probably that things will be 'normal' probably ain't gonna happen.  So that causes me to re-evaluate my expectations for this relationship and set new benchmarks for my happiness in parallel to my relationship and perhaps in spite of it.

The other thing I thought of was your decision to leave. You absolutely did the right thing!  I'm about honoring commitments, but the 'worse' part of the vow 'for better or for worse' absolutely positively does not allow for violence for any reason in my world.  If you were in my neighborhood, I'd been over there with my son (in law enforcement) helping you pack your stuff.

Thanks so much for the response, and I'm happy to connect with you!  Have a great evening.

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Gemsforeyes
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« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2020, 06:44:27 PM »

Hey Talltom-

Am I wrong to infer from your first post that your W has physically assaulted/ abused you?  You understand, that regardless of gender, that behavior is an absolute no.  It’s so difficult for men to shine a light on what’s happening to them, especially when there is a significant difference in size between the man and his partner.  Does this behavior continue?

Sadly, there are many men and women who’ve been part of our community here who’ve endured physical assaults.  There is good help here for that, too.

I wanted to also address the long-term care issue with you.  You have kids who can keep an eye on things, is that right?  Do you have a long-term care policy?  Perhaps you can look into purchasing a policy that allows you to stay at home (I have one of those)..Between your kids and a LTC policy where someone comes and provides live-in care, your W can ignore all she wishes.  And if she abuses, your caretaker will report her and possibly have her removed for your safety. 

How IS your W’s relationship with you kids?

Sorry to bombard you with so many questions.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes
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Thoroughbred

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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2020, 07:19:39 PM »

Hi Gems,
Yes you are wrong about the physical abuse, in either direction.  That doesn't mean that the verbal abuse she dishes out isn't absolutely ghastly and cause as much hurt.  Multiply that by 45 years, and there isn't many warm feelings anymore. 

You mentioned size, and I gotta tell you a funny incident. On my first visit to a therapist a few years ago, he asked me a similar question.  And mind you, I'm 6'7" tall, weigh 266 lbs, and I run marathons to stay in shape.  So when he asked me about the verbal abuse being hurled my way, I just looked him in the eye, and told him that I wasn't the type that got terribly intimidated by that kinda stuff.

Long Term Care policy - brilliant idea. I never would have thought of that.  Checking that out first thing tomorrow.  Thanks!

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Gemsforeyes
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2020, 08:16:21 PM »

Hey Talltom-

I feel relief knowing you’ve not suffered at the hands of your W; although I understand the soul-stealing damage emotional abuse inflicts.  I’m so sorry.

I’m glad you’ll look into the LTC policy.  I ported mine from a company I worked for and now pay monthly premiums.  If I never use it, my heirs get all my premiums back.

My ExH purchased a LTC policy outright when he was 60 for about $32K (using my money... funny).  I fully supported his decision to make that purchase, not knowing what my future held.  And 2.5 months later he did the wife hurl.  I didn’t get that money back... but I won’t have to change his diaper or listen to his nastiness, either!

Gems
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CHChuck
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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2020, 12:26:11 AM »

Talltom - Thank you for your openness and posing this question. I have been struggling with my highly functional udPBD wife for 30 years now and have tried endless things the improve our relationship. I'm sure the things I've given up are nothing new to everyone here, friends, jobs, hobbies, intimacy...self-worth. I still remember her saying, I shouldn't complain about the criticisms I hear because there are 1000 she doesn't share with me!

I have only recently discovered this site because my wife declared to her family that I have BPD. Suddenly, for those of us who live with her (my daughters and me), we knew with what we have been living. What I hate most about this illness is those of us who truly suffer must do so quietly. We cannot draw attention to the illness because that will set the BPD off.  How much would I love to hear a genuine "I'm sorry" or "nice job dealing with that!"

So, if I reduce my expectations, what am I willing to give up for my BPD spouse?  This is the questions I am asking myself now.
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Thoroughbred

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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2020, 09:54:11 AM »

Hi there CHChuck, and thanks for your response.  You are dealing with the exact issues I've dealt with.  That gaslighting technique is eyeopening isn't it?  What's interesting is that I've realized that everything she accuses me of is a direct reflection of her shortcomings.

I particularly picked up on your very last sentence, and it hits the context for my original post...I'm NOT reducing my expectations as much as I'm finally coming to terms with the fact that this will never change, will never get better.  Explicitly acknowledging that reality puts me in a position to then begin making good/better decisions in my own best interests.  Do I really want to cancel that business trip to Atlanta and stay home with the blinds closed and the curtains pulled?  Do I want to give up any of my plans for retirement that I've worked so hard for so I can stay home with her and 'exist'?

For 45 years our 'best decisions' were always manipulated toward only her best interests.  Now I'm choosing to balance my needs and the needs of my business against her inability to cope with life. I'm not allowing her illness isn't going to hold my life hostage any longer. For example, I canceled her plane ticket to Atlanta, and went by myself.

Looks like we have a lot in common. Let's stay in touch.
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CHChuck
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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2020, 09:09:58 PM »

Soo, I have a lesson to learn. That is, do not tell my wife I have made a big breakthrough by learning to reduce my expectations to cope with her illness. Doing so leads to challenges, criticisms, and attacks. I MUST learn to simply accept what she can give an be fine with that.

The timing of your comments is incredibly. After this conversation, I described how I might cope with what I have given without leaving our relationship. She responded by saying, I'm not prepared for you to galavant around the World leaving me stuck here at home. Of course, when I invite her to come on many of my trips.  Unfortunately they are 1) too much of a risk to exacerbate her perceived injuries, 2)she won't be able to keep up, or 3) she cannot trust me not to "fight" with her.

I realized I have spent my life sacrificing everything that does not fit her needs in hopes one of them would be the thing that changes her. Maybe she will become a loving spouse with whom I can have a meaningful conversation.

Nothing will change, except me. A major sacrifice I made was to give up my career for her. She is incredibly wealthy and the choice was easy when I figured spending the days with her would lead to the breakthrough. Now, she has yet another method by which to control me.  Breaking free financially without breaking the relationship is my next big objective!
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khibomsis
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Relationship status: Grieving
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« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2020, 11:55:56 AM »

Dear Gems, I am so sorry for your pain! Even a necessary loss is still a loss, and the grieving happens in its own time. Sending positive energy your way..

Talltom2, it is a good question! In my head people living with BPD are much like people without in the sense that they are all different. Some are nice, some are nasty, most are every shade in between. So, speaking for  myself, I would not stay with my beloved pwBPD if she wasn't such a sweetheart. Yes, the rages are terrible but she does not allow them to define her. There has never been a question of physical abuse and if I start to get triggered myself she understands that I will walk away.

On this board, our experience is that if the pwBPD 1/ accepts the diagnosis and 2/ is committed to therapy, the chances of the relationship doing well are high. I guess using Gems analogy, if a person would refuse all cancer treatment that would have implications for your burden of support and you would certainly be justified in hesitating.

With us, beloved is working on recognizing when she dysregulates, has started therapy and is about to join a DBT group. We are jointly working together on identifying triggers and preventing what we can, while trying to shorten dysregulations when we can't. It is only a year since I discovered about the BPD so that is pretty good going.

A huge part of why we are good is my willingness to take responsibility. I am attending Co-Dependent's Anonymous, working on my weak boundaries (brought up by a uBPDmom so they are on the flaky side Smiling (click to insert in post). Bit by bit I am parcelling out my emotional needs to family and friends and whittling down to what exactly it is I need my lover to do for me.  We were on a break for four months last year and I took that time to reflect deeply on whether I would be able to give her the support she needed, because if not, I felt I would be doing her a major disservice by allowing another recycle.   I had to ask myself the question: am I good for her? And no doubt when I get to step 4 I shall have to make amends.  

When I look back on the three years we have been dating, I am growing and changing, and a partner that provides space for that is what I have always been looking for.  

I am rambling on because I am hoping that this will give you some perspective on your own situation. What kept you there for 45 years?

CHChuck, beloved loves to party and I am such a homebody. I suspect that may split us up sooner than the BPD  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

 Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
Khib
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