Crossroads — Please share your thoughts (2)

[UBPDHelp]

Mod Note:  Part 1 of this thread is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=343211.new#new

In the 25+ years of our r/s, this is the longest we’ve gone w/o speaking. It’s also the only time I’ve had a boundary. I thought I did for many years, but I was doing it all wrong.

He hasn’t come home the last 2 nights and there has been zero communication, so there’s also been no “toe dipping” to see where he is.

I think there is a greater chance he is more angry, and his feeling that no one cares has grown,  than he is to self-soothing. I’m sure he wants to hold his power and his ego (he has NPD traits, too, as far as I can tell), so there is no telling how long he’ll stay away.

Is there a way I can now dip my toe AND still hold my boundary?

Can I ask if he’s ready to come home or does that break my boundary? His answer could remain the same, which I am still unwilling to do. But could talk about it b/c I’m sure he doesn’t get it (he’s entitled).

I’m afraid, knowing him, that he may be “feeling” that no one cares, so until there is something that shows I/we do, he’s just getting more self righteous.

How do I convey caring (via message) AND hold my boundary?

Or should I even try?

I appreciate as many suggestions so I can consider all options.

I don’t want all of the pain and suffering and work done this week to be thrown out the door, but I also don’t want to do nothing or make things worse.

Thank you for listening and sharing your thoughts.

[babyducks]

Hi UBPDHelp,

I've been following along with your posts for a little while and think I maybe have a little understanding of what you are describing.

Here is what I noticed.    I'll toss it out there for you.

You seem very focused on what HE will do (or not do).   and paying a lot of attention to if you do or say this or that, how that will make him feel.

I think there is a greater chance he is more angry, and his feeling that no one cares has grown, 

he may be.    but who is responsible for his feelings?    I spent a lot of time with my partner trying to identify and react to her feelings.    I ended up over identified with her feelings,  disconnected from my feelings and twisted up like a pretzel.

that kind of transactional way of trading or manipulating emotions wasn't the healthiest.     my thoughts and feelings and my partners thoughts and feelings were independent of each other and should have been treated that way.

Is there a way I can now dip my toe AND still hold my boundary?

Can I ask if he’s ready to come home or does that break my boundary?

I would suggest you not conflate these two things together... don't mix the topics.     one is certainly not the natural reaction to the other.   I think it's fine to send out a text or a message that says some form of 'let me know you are all right please'... and see what happens.    start small.   

How do I convey caring (via message) AND hold my boundary?

Can you see if you can  identify any FOG in how you are approaching this right now?     Where Fear Obligation and Guilt might be driving your thinking?   Who has the obligation to provide a smooth reentry path for your Husband back into the relationship?    Whose actions/words drove this recent event?  Who is guilty for it?      and in this unknown silence and location of course there is fear... there would have to be.    Fear is a terrible manipulator… fear backs us into corners where we think the worst and believe we have no options.   fear makes us think everything we do is of critical importance... when it's not.   
 

Or should I even try?

that depends on what you want.   you mention his feelings a lot in this post but not what you are feeling, or thinking or want.     what do you want?

I would suggest if you want something different you are going to have to try different things.    that doesn't have to be dramatic major things.   smaller internal adjustments to thinking can make a big difference.

what do you think?

[Cat Familiar]

Here's an article on  the silent treatment .

I was thinking that your boundary was being unwilling to talk about the details of your previous relationship. It would be good if you explicitly stated your exact boundary here, so both you and we are clear on exactly what it is.

He is the one who chose to leave and was only communicating by text.

[UBPDHelp]

Thanks babyducks and Cat,

I’m sorry if I am being confusing...I truly am confused.

I am sad.  I have a wonderful family sans the dysregulated H (great when he’s not). Even sad that I couldn’t help him.

I am scared. I currently have no job therefore no way to provide for myself or my kids. Scared that I’m causing them more harm then help. Scared there’s no turning back. Scared because he’s an emotional liar that presents a smart, caring cool side to the world and he’s in the legal system and I fear the ranks he will put me through if we divorce. And the lies he will tell. And he has set me up financially to take a fall, which is terrifying (different story, different day) but because of his lies and manipulation.

I also know all of the people that have seen a bit of this “other” side. But, not sure who understands it or who would be willing to say. I will NEVER put my kids in the middle of this b/c he would never forgive them. And they’ve seen it.

Sad because I feel like such a failure. How could I have allowed this?  Control and manipulation.  How?

And angry. For all of the above. And for having to defend a choice I made 30 years ago (that he did the same and more) over and over and over. Filled with lies and disgust.

Angry that I gave up so many things. My life, my family, nearly my sanity.

And the but...the confusion. Had I known what this was 15 years ago, could I have helped him so it didn’t get this bad?  Do I have a responsibility to help the father of my children?  No intent, I didn’t know better BUT I did contribute to this by not knowing the tools. My defense made me smooth things over.

In an ideal world, I would like him to see he is being unfair and pushing away the one person who loved him and always had his back (I’m not someone who will just tell you what you want to hear, but what I believe and I think that was hard for him and then I morphed to “making things better” to keep the peace). I’d like him to seek therapy (he won’t) and learn some better coping skills for his flashes of anger.

In a realistic world those things likely won’t happen.

But, am I supposed to let this broken person rot in the stew he created? Maybe.

My exact boundary is exactly as you say Cat.  I do not wish to discuss this previous bf at all, ever again.  It has NOTHING to do with anything he attributes it to. Nothing, nada, zero, nothing. Yet, he believes it has everything to do with everything.  I feel he truly believes this and he isn’t using it to control. I may be wrong, been known to happen. 

Thank you for sticking with me.  I am a scrambled mess of what to do.

I feel like I should test the waters but not sacrifice the boundary.

Maybe the “let me know you’re okay” is good. Mark my words, he will likely say I don’t care, if he even replies.  And probably demand I answer his questions, again if he even replies.

Let me know if you think that is a good test the waters but not compromise the boundary.

Bless you for helping me...I really need it!

[I Am Redeemed]

If your boundary is to not discuss the issue of your ex from 30 years ago, then that does not mean that you cannot communicate at all. It simply means that you do not engage if the topic is brought up. You can keep attempting light communication if you choose. If he comes back with a response that brings up the topic of your ex, then you don't engage on that topic.

As per your other questions- do you have a responsibility to "help" the father of your children?

Boy, that question kept me stuck for years because I thought that I did, and I kept trying and trying. But how exactly do you think you can help him? You are not a trained mental health professional. Yes, you can use tools that may improve your communication and reduce conflict, but the tools are really for you. Listening with empathy is good, validating and not being invalidating are good for the overall relationship, and boundaries are essential for protecting yourself when a person is treating you in a way that goes against your values.

There is no tool that will help your h resolve the ways in which your past is causing him pain, and there is no tool that will help him suddenly develop empathy for you or anyone else.

In other words, your ability to "help" him is limited, even if you had known about this years ago. You can't fix him and you can't make him want to get help. You ca change the way you communicate, you can protect yourself from abusive behaviors, but you cannot fix the root cause of his issues. He is the only one who can take steps to do that, and it is his responsibility, no matter how disordered he is.

do you "let him rot in the stew he created"? Let's reframe this. Should you let him experience the natural consequences of abusive treatment of you and the kids (because refusing to provide funds for basic needs while knowing that you do not have an alternative to get those needs met for the kids is financially and emotionally abusive to both you and them)?

If he refuses to learn to self-soothe, should he experience the natural consequence of that which is to not be soothed?

"Helping" and "enabling" are very hard to distinguish for those of us who have been caught up in Emotional Blackmail: FOG.

I think you are experiencing normal emotions to be sad, scared, and angry. What are the chances of you being able to get therapy for yourself? You mentioned that you do not have any outside support right now. Being isolated makes it harder for us to not buy into the perceptions of the disordered person. It's no wonder you are feeling confused. You have been exposed to someone else's distorted reality for a long time and the lines between what you are and are not responsible for are blurred. I've been there, and it took a while to find my way out of that, but it's possible.

[UBPDHelp]

Two quick things...

I meant to address the silent treatment. Thank you for sending the article...it really resonated.

It’s funny (not really), my son belonged to a club with about 50 kids.  Half of them thought they were “above” everyone else and wouldn’t even acknowledge the other half. I thought it was one of the rudest displays I had seen and not one parent tried to correct it.  I would never allow my child to behave that way.  Pathetic I’ve let my H do it to me.

But, second.  He came home. Went straight to our room and is not speaking to me.  I’m sure it’s convenience and maybe he even figured he shouldn’t be spending money on hotels. Now, I feel like I need to really consider what to do.  Mostly gonna do the kid stuff on the agenda — one son has soccer camp and another has a dentist appointment.

Any advice from this and my last reply is appreciated.

[UBPDHelp]

Thanks I Am Redeemed,

The reframing of situations is immensely helpful, especially with so much self doubt.

The understanding that these tools (boundaries esp) are for me is helpful, but I struggle to get out of the mode of making him better so we interact better.

If he could just see that his abuse is not necessary, then everything would be better. True statement. Not a realistic one.

I’m going to reread all the advice...it is helpful and see if I can land on a safe place emotionally, at least for today.

Open to any and all observations, advice, critiques, suggestions.

Thank you so much for your clarity and sharing your experience.

[Harri]

 

And the but...the confusion. Had I known what this was 15 years ago, could I have helped him so it didn’t get this bad?  Do I have a responsibility to help the father of my children?  No intent, I didn’t know better BUT I did contribute to this by not knowing the tools. My defense made me smooth things over.

I think this is something a lot of us struggle with.  The thing is, none of this is intuitive.  By that I mean the way we interact with people in general and the new ways you are trying to learn here.  As tired as this phrase may be, when we know better we do better.  Hang on to that.  We can drive ourselves crazy by going down rabbit holes labeled 'if only' and 'what if'.  This is all new to you.  Give yourself a break.

I don't know if this applies to you or not so see if it does.  I found when I was asking questions like the ones you have, it was a way for me to feel like I had some kind of control, the same with most if not all of my rescuing/fixer tendencies.  I felt better thinking I had made things worse and that I could change my pwBPD/disordered person.  It's taken a long time to beat that particular beast down and I am not entirely sure I have defeated it to be honest.

Here is another thread on the silent treatment and within it are links to more (I did not look at those though):
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=167616.0

If you do decide to go out, say with the kids to do something, you could say something like "The kids and I are going to ___ and we would like it if you come with us" or something like that.  Keep telling him dinner is ready, important things he needs to know about, etc. 

Brainstorming here so lets see if others have anything to add, change, etc.  If he again states/demands answers about your previous relationship you can say "I know this is really bothering you and that it hurts.  It is hard to see you suffering like this.  I can't say anything I have not already addressed before and I can't keep repeating myself to you.  I don't know how to help you with this and I do care".

Thoughts?

[UBPDHelp]

Thanks Harri,

Appreciate those links and I will definitely spend some time there and with other tools.

It is hard that I can’t “fix” this. And hard to remember this is about fixing me (refocusing my mindset and responses), the only thing I can really do.

He’s being super charming with my oldest son (who knows the game) and very loud and laughing, etc, etc.

Made lunch and called everyone. Everyone came but him. 

Silent treatment it is...deep breaths.

Off to do stuff with the kiddos. 

Definitely will utilize this language (I suspect over and over) if he ever speaks to me again. 

Thanks for your kind words.

[babyducks]

I hope you had a good afternoon out with the kids, and even managed to relax a little.

Your H has visited and revisited this topic of your old old bf so many times that it has become an automatic negative thought for him.   that's a real thing you can google if you want... basically A.N.T.s  are negatively framed interpretations of what we think is happening to us.

Your H is getting something out of this Automatic Negative Thought.  It works for him.    It explains why he never ~felt~ loved, not really loved.    It can't be because he has an insecure attachment style,    it can't be because he has unusually high expectations of what love is.     He fragile sense of self can't tolerate that, so it has to be you, and Viola it's this old boyfriend.    

Returning to this A.N.T keeps the attention/focus on his emotions, his needs, his feelings and that works for him too.   It keeps you in the

the mode of making him better so we interact better.  

can you see how he gets a lot out of that?   that works because  morphing into making things better to keep the peace, gives him what he wants.  Compliance.  and the ability to hand off responsibility for adult mature behavior to some one else.

I used to call my relationship a needs entitlement war.    and oh my goodness it was...   my partners wants/needs had to come first,   to not come first meant she didn't exist,   it was like a mini death to her.   my wants and needs were only considered if they happened to either match hers or advance hers in some way... and strangely I was more than willing to put my wants and needs second.    over and over again.   Raising this old bf is a great way to put his need for absolutely security above your need to be your authentic self.   including one with a past.

the example you see a lot in common print is the one about a pwBPD becoming upset and angry if you are 15 minutes late for a lunch date,.. or if you stay late at work,  something like that.    what's that about?   why would my partner become upset if I had to stay late at work because some project failed?   because her need for attention was more important.  because her need to have some one to mirror was more important.    because her need to feel securely attached to some one else was of Premier Importance.

I Am Redeemed raised a brilliant point:

"Helping" and "enabling" are very hard to distinguish for those of us who have been caught up in Emotional Blackmail: FOG.

I think when we see someone we care about being that upset/hurt about something our natural reaction is to want to fix it.   but when does helping become enabling?   for me it's when I try to manufacture an outcome.   I want this to go away... I want to fix this... I want you to feel better,... I want you to understand... I want you to act differently.

My Ex is bipolar 1 comorbid with BPD.  she could and did become psychotic.   which caused real problems with her driving her car.   I did refuse to drive with her when she was in an episode.     I did (once) take her keys away.   Once I let her drive when I knew she really shouldn't have been.     It was a pretty messy process trying to figure out what I should do and how far I should go.   I didn't always get it right.   some times I did a great job,... some times I fell down on my tuchus.

anyhow.. now I am rambling.   I hope this helps.

'ducks

[UBPDHelp]

Thanks Babyducks,

That is really interesting about the automatic negative.  I will definitely read up on this.  W/o any prior knowledge, but basing on your explanation and the name, this seems quite possible and certainly worth looking into. The old bf is brought up every time he is unhappy or doesn’t get his way.

I didn’t get the laundry done, I was daydreaming about old bf
I was too tired for sex tonight, I would have leapt tall buildings to sleep with the bf

You name it, it was b/c of the old bf.

So, I will read up on this.  Is there any way to “break” this?  Same tools as BPD — boundaries, validation, no JADEing...?

At this point, I’d start with just more non-dysregulated time.  I’m working on learning and applying tools so that I am holding up my end.  We’ll have to wait to see if that can bring us to a more neutral place.  And if then we can get him amenable to work on a few things from his side.

Thanks for your thoughtful response and sharing your experience.

FWIW, I’ve had one or two of the rage driving episodes and they are terrifying. Sorry for all you’ve been through...kudos for staying true to yourself. #goals

[UBPDHelp]

And an update.

So went about my business with kiddos, invited to lunch and dinner but declined both.  When we got back, I thought maybe it was time for a F2F toe dip. 

At first he was just angry and saying he wouldn’t speak to me until I was ready to answer his questions. I told him that I wouldn’t and he said then we have nothing to say to each other.

I did some far reaching validation of his feelings recognizing that I understood that he felt this way. (I can’t define it. Not angry, not hurt, not sad, not jealous.  It is disgusted.)

Then I told him that it was really hard for me to hear this and frustrating because the questions have been asked and answered so many times, that I have never lied to him about my past, that nothing new has happened (it’s been decades for Pete’s sake!) and that I was only interested in the present and making that strong so the future would also be AND I simply cannot live in that past.

You could see a very visible physical change and he just dropped it.

BUT, BUT, BUT, I am afraid my telling him I never lied to him might equate (in his head) to that I answered his questions/demand

So, did I just excruciatingly go through a week of turmoil and then just reinforce his behavior?

I feel like I’ve let everyone on here and myself and my kids down.

Sure it may be peaceful for a while.  Only thing I can think to do is keep working on tools and see if I can do a better job, but keep the notion that I may never get there in the back of my mind. And by that, I also mean strengthening my well being, getting a better job so if it really doesn’t ever get better, I have an exit strategy.

Thank you for sticking through this saga.  I know it’s not over and may only last hours or days...I’m sorry if this was a fail.  Still very much appreciate the help and tools; definitely need to work on my skill set.

[babyducks]

So, I will read up on this.  Is there any way to “break” this?  Same tools as BPD — boundaries, validation, no JADEing...?

hmmm.    I'm not sure there is a way to 'break' the habit because it's up to the person having the automatic negative thoughts to try and combat them.   

I think there are ways to lessen the impact though.

First - recognize this isn't about you.    try to not take it personally.    it's not about your character or your honesty or integrity.    try to find a way to disengage from the negativity and replenish your energy.     as a group we are remarkably good at not putting ourselves first.    find something to do that is just for you,.. to help build yourself back up.  find a way to take back personal control of your own life in small steps. Give yourself small goals, such as walking in the park every day or going to the library every week.   self care self care self care.   whatever your version of it is.   it will help shift this dynamic every so slightly.   demonstrating that you value yourself will have an impact on both of you.

Second - don't JADE.    a long time ago here some one said that these negative circular arguments are like a river... don't pour anymore water into the river.  JADE pours more water into the river.    let me see if I can explain what I am thinking... if our pwBPD's energy and emotional level is registering at 8.2 on the Richter Scale we want to stay below and inside that... aim to be a 3 on the Richter Scale...

I like what Harri said upstream (pun intended)   but I would take out some energy and emotion out of her statement...

Brainstorming here so lets see if others have anything to add, change, etc.  If he again states/demands answers about your previous relationship you can say "I know this is really bothering you and that it hurts.  It is hard to see you suffering like this.  I can't say anything I have not already addressed before and I can't keep repeating myself to you.  I don't know how to help you with this and I do care".

and Third - I was going to suggest you gently and mildly redirect him/ this topic.   which you already did.        good for you.         applause from me.

I particularly like the part about only being interested in the present and making the future.   nicely done.

there is no one size fits all cookie cutter answer that works every time and in each circumstance.    it's a trial and error.  I don't think you reinforced his behavior you redirected it into more positive terrority.

I would suggest you try S.E.T if you find validation difficult at first.   S.E.T.   came easier to me.    Support.   Empathy.  Truth.    just a thought.   

'ducks

[Cat Familiar]

You kept your boundary of not answering his questions about your past. You saw a visable shift in his body and he dropped his questioning.

I would call that a win. 

[UBPDHelp]

Thanks ‘Ducks,

I appreciate the vote of confidence that I haven’t totally undone the boundary.  The refocus and stating that we’ve been over this before has happened before, but likely with a fair shake of JADEing.

That said, the rest of the night was uneventful and yesterday started fine.

We decided to take the kids out skating.  I was kind of tired and not really into it, but faked it to get everyone out of the house and reset with a fun memory.

But, as we’re going, we’re just chatting about kid stuff and he says that I never asked him what the surprise was. He then tells me he gave notice and will be done in two weeks, with no job lined up or even a direction to go.  He looks at me waiting for reaction. I have none b/c I truly am just defeated. That said, he goes on to say that they didn’t want him to go so they told him to take the weekend so he’s going to stay.  But if I hadn’t dipped my toe in (spoken to him, from his view) then he was just going to walk out.

He also tells me that if I hadn’t spoken to him he would have never spoken to me again. He is not someone to give an ultimatum to.  And, it’s true, he has cut plenty of people out of his life. He’s told friends and colleagues that he doesn’t care if he ever talks to them again.  But he is so charming and smart and funny, everyone sticks around.

And then he goes on to say that his problem with my past is that he is disgusted but I am not.  I tell him he doesn’t know how I feel and can’t state my feelings. Then he says I never told my family that the old bf was horrible and there were occasions they casually mentioned him in front of him.  I do understand a bit that that’s unpleasant, but a casual mention 30 years ago just seems like something to get over by now.  However, my brother and his wife helped my dad move out of his house when he got sick and sent me a box of stuff of mine. There were letters and pictures and a few things with my old bf.  I didn’t know he was sending it and I think he never thought twice about it being a big deal.  H got the package and went through it before I got home. He was over the top out of his mind b/c this was an attack on him. Not that it was pictures and mementos from my childhood and 3 things that had to do with my old bf.  My dad lived there for 30 years and I never did, but H wants to know why I didn’t get rid of those pictures.  I was keeping them.  How?

Again, I even partly understand that this chit chat (30 years ago) was annoying and getting a picture of the old bf was annoying (there were hundreds of pictures), but it feels like grasping at straws for reasons to prove I don’t love him.

I think his want for a career change (which I going to be difficult at best, impossible at worst) is making him reevaluate his whole life. And he wants someone else to be to blame for his unhappiness.

And he’s now thrown in the new twist that the real problem is that I never told anyone my old bf was horrible and that I was disgusted with the situation so his name was never uttered again (it was maybe 3 times in a very subtle way).  And, it’s not entirely true.  I did tell them that the r/s had gone poorly, but to me it was in the past and I was moving forward. And that was 30 years ago and H is still there.

We talked about this. Very careful to not JADE (hard to not explain when some of it is wrong), but reiterated that at the very least there was nothing I could do about 30 years ago and that I understood that’s how he felt and that I was sorry it made him feel that way (which sounds condescending to me, but seems not to him), and that I really want to move oats this and look at the future. He agreed to try to stay in the future (TRY for the short term).  So maybe it’s an opportunity to try to reframe his thinking for the next couple of months?

My guess is we’ll be back discussing old bf within 3 days.  Probably less.  But I’m gonna try.

[UBPDHelp]

Thanks Cat,

You don’t think saying that I never lied to him about it (not direct answer to questions), wasn’t a round about way of answering his questions...at least in his eyes?

I mean I feel good not answering disgusting questions, but I’m worried he feels like I did.

Maybe baby steps...

In my reply to Babyducks, I played out the rest of the weekend and he is just stuck.  Just stuck in the past. Four beautiful kids, nice house and wife who loves(d) him and all he cares about is the old bf. The only one that is letting the old bf ruin anything is him. It’s maddening.

So, I’m going to try to use the tools I’ve learned and still learning and take this time he’s “promised” to only look to the future and see if I can help him reset.  I am skeptical to say the least.

But, I’m also going to take this time to try to better my circumstance so if he can’t reasonably stay away from old bf, then I am in a better position. I feel I’ve beaten my head one too many times that if he doesn’t try, I can’t continue to be the only one who is (he sees this in the reverse, btw, no surprise there).

[I Am Redeemed]

You did not allow him to subject you to an interrogation where he asks specific, degrading questions and demands that you answer. You let him know that you see no point in beating a horse that died thirty years ago and are instead focused on the future. I don't think that is the same as him getting his questions answered in the way he has demanded. I think you held your boundary well

[UBPDHelp]

Thank I am Redeemed. I am happy to be trying to steady that boundary.

And thanks everyone else who has so kindly supported me. 

I wasn’t able to get on for a couple of days b/c of schedule and I was getting error messages getting to the boards.

Anyway, things settled for a day or two, but he is as dysregulated as ever. It is a sick, sick mind that I’m dealing with.

He is messaging.  If I don’t reply, then even when he’s back at baseline, he won’t respond to a household need message (I thought we didn’t reply to messages?).

So he was okay for a couple days.  Something set him off, not entirely sure what but have some options to choose from.  These are MINOR nuisances for most people, but total dysregulation for him.

We had to go somewhere and everything was fine last night, but first thing this morning he’d totally reverted to out of control.  I tried to redirect but having none of it.  So just sat quietly. When we went separate ways I get the onslaught of messages.

To the first I tried to SET and then state my boundary. I don’t want to do this through messages but he is forcing it and he took issue with me not responding, so I thought I would try.

He is just simply losing control virtually nonstop.

I do not see an end to this.

I need help what my next steps should be because I think I may be pushed right over the edge. I’m losing it. I am NOT suicidal, I wouldn’t leave my kids even if I’m a despicable, vile piece of trash. But I may lose my mind.

It is NOT okay.

[Cat Familiar]

It’s easy to say don’t take it personally, but much harder to do.

Let’s just state facts here.

Regardless of your past relationship, you’ve been true to him.

He’s had previous relationships.

And it’s NONE OF HIS BUSINESS ABOUT ANYTHING IN YOUR FIRST RELATIONSHIP. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIM.

If you can hold that thought and not buy into his crazy thinking, you’ll be more grounded.

He’s pushing you, trying to get you to respond the way you previously did. It’s highly abusive and he’s had success doing that in the past.

No means no. If you bend on this, he will pester you endlessly.

To me, it seems like he’s trying to humiliate you in order to make himself feel better. It’s very disturbing.

[babyducks]

hi UBPDHelp,

like you I have had some trouble with the technical difficulties... 

How are you feeling today?    How are things going?

'ducks

[juju2]

Hi everyone.

So much of what I go thru is a dissection.

I may as well be back in H.S. dissecting a frog.

What I see is we can get it all correct, using the tools.   And we still can get horrible treatment.

It's like trying to make friends with a flood.

I can know and do and be

It is going to be a flood in spite of all my efforts. Some other things have to happen for the water to recede.

I don't even know what I am saying.

Guess am at the end of anymore doing.
on my part.

[UBPDHelp]

Hi all,

I am feeling so defeated and stuck.  The part I almost hate the most is the robbing of joy, peace and stability from my life. We do a lot of extravagant things like vacations (that NEVER live up to his expectations and leave me feeling like we’ve wasted a ton of money b/c he is miserable), mini trips, concerts/theater. I believe he thinks these things will somehow fill a void for him, which they don’t, but end up causing a ton of stress.

He wants to change jobs, which I have been supportive of b/c I believe this is the behind the scenes stressor causing much of the dysregulation. But, he wants to just walk out which means no income, health insurance, etc.  And, he likes to max out on house and cars and bills (says it keeps him motivated) so it will be devastating financially if he does.  I would have rather been more modest in all of these things (I don’t like that kind of stress) but he is capable of making more than enough and promised he would to sustain the lifestyle he wanted, so I’m also annoyed that he thinks it’s okay to just walk out and cares not one bit the amount of stress he is putting me under with this. This need I believe also stems from growing up when his family was low income/low middle class among kids who were from wealthy families...he has a need to “prove” his worth.  Funny thing, I’d rather live under a rock and have someone treat me nicely, respectfully than have stuff.

Anyway, we had to go out of town and he was relatively fine.  Even a couple of okay days when we got back.  But then just some little thing sets him off. I’m back to snide comments and flying off the handle. No rage texts — yet.  I feel them coming, but currently is the old standby — silent treatment. And, I’m suspicious that he’s holding back because he needs a fair amount of the money that I’ve saved. 

Sorry, this is all ramblings.  I feel like my head is just a scrambled mess and I don’t know what my next step should be.  Partially b/c I’m juggling so many distractions right now and would like to put them to bed so I can focus on the bigger picture.

Thanks for listening.

[Ozzie101]

  UBPDHelp!

I know what you’re feeling and going through.

My H is also going through a lot of career stress right now that’s triggering him big-time. He has threatened to just quit multiple times in the recent months. It’s a scary thing to hear. I have a job, but I don’t make enough to support us. Especially not if I’m having to cover his medical insurance too.

It’s slowed down some in the last couple of weeks. Thing is, I know he won’t actually do it. Or I don’t believe he would. So, I stay very calm when he threatens. When he’s calmer, he’ll admit he would never just quit. Still, I do worry about our finances.

Do you think your H would go through with it?

You say you have money saved. What do you plan to do with it?

[UBPDHelp]

Hi Ozzie,

I’m sorry you’re dealing with this too (I’m on your post as well  .

I do think he may get to that point.  Years ago he walked out of a job. We had a 2yo and I was 5 months pregnant.  That was stressful and it set us down a destructive financial path because it took him 3-4 months to get a new job.  I worked from home PT, but not enough to cover more than just basics. That was 20 years ago and in some ways I don’t know if we ever recovered from that. 

He’s been at this job for 17 years but doesn’t want to do it anymore.  He wants to do something completely different (anything else as he says).  But he is doing nothing to look for a new job or do any training to change career paths.  And, he has a deadline of September to be in a new job.  I don’t think it will be easy so I feel like if he wants to do it, he should be looking.

He actually said to me yesterday that I wasn’t helping him (I’ve sent him a couple of listings I’ve happened upon in my own search, he’s said no to both).  He said I don’t get it or know what he’s qualified to do.  That’s true.  He’s a legal professional and it is outside my scope.  Also, it’s not my job to find him a job.  But I do have a vested interest in what he does. 

The money is for future.  Whether that is retirement or to get out, idk at this point.  I don’t want to touch it, but he does.  And, he’s in a service field where his income is dependent on him billing for his time.  He’s decided that he doesn’t feel like doing anything for weeks at a time.  Genius.

The financial roller coaster may be the thing that puts me over.  I said for richer, for poorer.  Just not deliberate, not trying, sabotaging. 

My favorite is he won’t bring home pay for a few weeks and then will complain if a bill gets paid late.  Dire emergency and I’ll pay bills out of savings, deliberate not doing anything, stuff is going to be late.  Consequence.

I’m getting the feeling he’s trying to use the savings so there is no safety net for me.  Not going to happen.

I am definitely at the point where enough is enough and deciding what that one thing that puts me over is.  I question if I’m there...definitely very close.

Thank you for continuing the conversation...it helps to talk.  Appreciate it!

[Ozzie101]

Talking does help!

I’d hold firm to your line on the savings. It’s a good chance you’ll need it — whatever you decide.

I’m a big fan of natural consequences, which is a big part of H’s and my child-rearing philosophy. Your H may be an adult but the same thing applies. Let him feel and deal with the results of his choices.

That’s got to be very frustrating to deal with on the job front. At least my H is actively looking!

[formflier]

He actually said to me yesterday that I wasn’t helping him (I’ve sent him a couple of listings I’ve happened upon in my own search, he’s said no to both).  He said I don’t get it or know what he’s qualified to do.  That’s true.  He’s a legal professional and it is outside my scope.  Also, it’s not my job to find him a job.  But I do have a vested interest in what he does. 

There seems to be a lot of information in here that you can unpack and inform your future decisions.

You also identify the "hook" that is used to keep you engaged (vested interest).

Perhaps you should imagine what he believes your "help" looks like.  Put that in one column. 

Then try to think about what role you have played in the past and what has "worked" (if anything) and then create another list of "what's worked" and perhaps things you can imagine working.

Is there any reason to "retry" form of help he has rejected?

Best,

FF