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Skills we were never taught
98
A 3 Minute Lesson
on Ending Conflict
Communication Skills-
Don't Be Invalidating
Listen with Empathy -
A Powerful Life Skill
Setting Boundaries
and Setting Limits
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Author Topic: Big change, not sure, need advise  (Read 516 times)
Carguy
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« on: February 15, 2020, 09:44:59 PM »

Hey group, something big changed the last few days with my ex uBPD girlfriend. In the last several months she painted me more black than she ever has. In November she told me we were just friends, she wanted limited contact, and when I asked if we were seeing other people she told me to go live my life.

I went out with another girl for two weeks and since she ran into us on Thanksgiving, she has been very angry with me. She told me for the first time to stay away from her. Later she asked if i could watch her kids then after I did I was to stay away from her again.

A few weeks ago I sent a text telling her I still cared about her. No response
 The next day I text and asked if I could send an open hearted text. No response (first time she hasn't responded when I asked a question). I took the hint and quit texting.

She has two kitties at my house and the other day I went to feed kitties and I could smell something dead. I text her my concern and no response. At lunch I stopped by her apartment to make sure she was getting the messages. She said yes and got angry telling me I was manipulating her into talking and all sorts of stuff. I left. She text that night telling me she only wanted to text if they're sick or dead or about her vehicles on my property and didn't want to talk about anything else. I text back and told her sorry and I have hoped all along we could communicate and I agree and had decided for my own mental and emotional well being I was going no contact with her. She said ok.

The next day I was feeling little bad and concerned and text her and told her before I go no contact I want her to know I'm not doing it to hurt or abandon her and it's not because of someone else. I'm working on myself and hope we could have communication again someday. I also text confirming our previous agreement of her trading a car to me for keeping her other two here. She text back confirming this.

The next day (Thursday) she text me that afternoon and apologized for getting angry especially when I've been trying to help her and told me I handled it well and she realized she hasn't been empathetic to my messages and if I still wanted I could send her that open hearted text and she's been working on herself too. She thanked me for living strong and hoped we could have communication again someday too.

This is the first time in years she apologized and admitted all of this! I'm not sure what changed in her world. Maybe "don't leave me!"? Even more surprising is she unblocked me on facebook that she's had me blocked on for a year and a half (even though we got back together a few times in that period).

I messaged back and told her how I appreciated it and would still like communication with her. Later I sent the open hearted text. We text a little catching up.

The next day I wished her Happy Valentine's day and later stopped at Wal-Mart to get some lunch and deliver flowers to her. She loved them and hugged me several times like she couldn't help it and told me I made her day. This morning I text good morning and told her it made my day to make hers. She thanked me again and said it meant a lot.

Tonight I ran to Wal-Mart for some dinner items and ran into her and her new (last few months) female friend. I chit chatted, went and got my items, then went and found them to say bye but the whole time it seemed awkward. She kept her distance (she always hugs friends and people she knows) and to me seemed uncomfortable.

My question is do I keep contact limited? Keep some space, give her some space?
Talk to her and find out what distance she wants?

She said the reason she got angry the other day is she was triggered because talking to me felt like we were repeating the same pattern. Back in November when she pushed me away she got angry telling me she needed space.

I don't want to engulf her but want her to know I'm still here. I just don't want to screw anything up.
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khibomsis
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« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2020, 11:44:34 AM »


Dear Carguy, you are sweet  Smiling (click to insert in post) I wish there were more men around like you!
Seeing as you live in a small place and are likely to bump into your ex all the time, maybe it is a good thing to learn to recognize when a dysregulation  comes on. It is more difficult than it sounds, I often get caught up because by the time I realize it is a dysregulation we are already deep into it. But if you can master the art, you will begin to know what she means for real and what is her brain going off track. That will make life much easier for you. My pwBPD used to break up with me at least once per dysregulation (at one time once a week). It caused havoc with our relationship until I learnt to defuse the situation - and to under no circumstances seek reassurance from her at such times. 

Also having a look at the Relationship Tools at the bottom of your screen is helpful, that way you will know how to disarm an attack of the furies.

All that said, and I speak as woman here, I feel she is taking shameless advantage of you. Would you consider yourself a person who has weak boundaries?

The fact of the matter is that as long as you are looking after her cars, her cats, etc, it is going to multiply the potential for conflict, quite simply because it multiplies the opportunities for interaction. I know you are doing it in an effort to show her your commitment, but it can end up having the opposite outcome to the one you desire.

What do you think of holding back on dating until you sort out your co-dependency issues? That way you don't risk repeating this pattern in future relationships.
  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
Khib
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Mutt
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« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2020, 12:47:43 PM »

Hi Carguy

Excerpt
This is the first time in years she apologized and admitted all of this! I'm not sure what changed in her world. Maybe "don't leave me!"? Even more surprising is she unblocked me on facebook that she's had me blocked on for a year and a half (even though we got back together a few times in that period).

I think that you did good  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post) I sense that you've probably been at this junction in the past with your gf and you didn't get similar results. I want to bit on what khibomsis said about boundaries and I think that the reaction that you got was because you asserted boundaries you probably had either none or floating boundaries with your gf in the past.

There' no magic pill here I think that you're looking for that recipe in case you get into something similar in the future. You did good you stuck up for yourself and you said that if you're going to be like this then I don't want to talk to you.

To answer your question about space I would suggest to give her space, think of your gf like a cat, a cat will come up to you and it wants attention and wants to be pet and you give attention to the cat and the cat wanders off and does it's own thing, let the cat go it will eventually come back. You don't want to come off as needy and clingy. Remember that think of a cat the cat will come back and it will want to be pet etc and it will wonder off again and eventually it comes back let it do it's own thing.

Find a hobby if you don't have one, do the self work you can always benefit from that and can always work on yourself, take care of yourself in the spaces where you are not talking to her, breathe deeply as well too, I set aside two minutes each day and do deep breathing.

I think that the reason why you are surprised at her reaction is because you approached this differently this time and you're seeing the results of that.
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Carguy
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« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2020, 09:12:40 PM »

Mutt, thank you for the reassurance on setting my boundaries! That makes me feel good and gives me more clarity!

In the past, I would go crawling back to her, apologize, and take all the blame and we would come back together for another recycle. Since the demise of the idolization stage, she hasn't apologized and always blamed me. Her apologizing and admitting to her faults was a shock and her on unblocking me on Facebook after a year-and-a-half was another shock. We're still not friends on Facebook but I will let her friend me if she decides to. Until then I won't say anything about Facebook.

To me, judging from this reaction from her and what you are saying, the more I enforce boundaries for myself the better and possibly the more respectful she'll be.

Awe thanks Khib! Funny thing, I'm still good friends with my ex wife and she was just telling me the other night that I have a huge heart. I guess it is just who I am.

I feel I have got better at realizing the dysregulation by her actions such as getting real quiet and withdrawing or getting angry. Since I learned of BPD I have been learning to be more empathetic and understanding. Sometimes when she is raging it doesn't work real well and I'm not entirely sure what to do. Other times I have learned to fly by the seat of my pants to soothe and calm her to a level we can talk. I'm still learnig though.

Sorry, I'm not seeing the relationship tools at the bottom. Maybe just me?

I do struggle with boundaries. This is something I have recently been trying to learn and work on a little more. I agreed to let her keep her vehicles here since I have a lot of room and they're not in my way. When she moved out of my house she moved to an apartment and had nowhere for them. Same with the kitties. We kept a litter one of my cats had and she claimed two of them. They are here along with the other kitties.

I have decided to work on myself more, However, I did ask her yesterday If she would like to go to a movie this coming weekend and she said yes. She did tell me that I was texting her daily (one or two texts a day) and she wasn't used to it and it was a little overwhelming. I told her I would be mindful of that.

I'm thinking We need to just go as friends (no hand holding, cuddling, walk her to the door and thank her for a fun evening and not stay like in the past). One thing she said in her apology was she felt like opening communication was us just repeating the cycle, which was a trigger for her.

Another thing that I am unsure of is if she asks me if I had sex with the other girl I seen for a few weeks. To be honest. I did have sex with her twice. I wish I hadn't when I truly wasn't over my ex (or even that soon). In December when we talked she angrily asked me if I got this girl pregnant assuming I had. I told her I could guarantee I had not (hysterectomy) but she told me (upset) she did not want to know anything else. I never admitted to having sex. I don't want to lie to her If the question comes up, but in the same turn I don't want to hurt her or damage things more. I'm not sure if it should be her business since this was while we were apart either. What do you think here? How would be the best way to handle this? I'm thinking I might just have to tell her yes, but not go beyond that.
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khibomsis
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« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2020, 05:52:09 AM »

Carguy, I would say under no circumstances open the door to a discussion as to what you were doing with your former date. That way lies disaster. I would take a gentle but firm line: you were broken up. Your pwBPD has no right to ask. It is a beautiful opportunity to get practice setting a boundary  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Yes, it was hurtful that you recovered so quickly from the break up, and it seems clear that she feels you were unfaithful to her. The important thing is not to validate this view of reality. Maybe tactfully affirming the sense of emotional infidelity while steering the discussion to those feelings of loss,  might be more useful than dissecting what you actually did? Do you think that might work?

This should appear on the Home Page right under the "Contact" icon. I am an ignoramus when it comes to IT, but perhaps one of the more experienced ambassadors can provide a URL:
 
RELATIONSHIP TOOLS
How To Stop Reacting
Ending the Cycle of Conflict
Listen with Empathy
Don't Be Invalidating
Values and Boundaries
On-Line CBT Program

I am so pleased that things seem to be thawing between you two. Keep us posted on progress, and you will find it also useful to read and comment on other's posts. We are all a community here and other's stories often enlighten and inspire me.

Mutt, I love your cat analogy! Am going to practice that one with my beloved   Way to go! (click to insert in post)

 Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
Khib
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Carguy
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2020, 10:18:10 AM »

I loved Mutt's cat analogy too! I thought that was an interesting way to look at it!

My thoughts and concerns on that topic with her: if it comes up, I I've been thinking that I might tell her I want to address the feelings behind this. Empathize with her that to me, it seems like she feels I was unfaithful and abandoning and she was very hurt by it. Tell her I am sorry that it made her feel this way. Maybe tell her that I feel I probably should not have moved on that quickly but gave myself time to realize I wasn't over her and should have given myself time to work on my own feelings of rejection and abandonment which stems from my mother. Maybe tell her that I did tell this other girl I wasn't ready to jump into a relationship because I just left this relationship and she was actually quite understanding. In the end this girl wasn't over her ex and went back to him. It was more of a rebound relationship for both of us that didn't last long. I don't know how much of this should be shared with her but maybe it would help?

My concern: In the past she has accuse me of avoiding. If she asks me directly if we had sex and I side step the question I'm concerned that she will accuse me of avoiding again and ask me directly or confirm that I did have sex with this other girl in her mind and she would push away again. Basically no answer is admitting guilt. This is the part that I am not sure how to navigate.

Also on this subject, a couple of years ago. She was with me one weekend cuddling but we are not together. A week later she came over to my house on a Sunday and admitted the night before she was with another guy and they got naked but she pushed him away because she wanted it to be me. A year-and-a-half later she said for some reason in her mind she had blocked out (forgotten) the fact that he had started giving her oral sex, and she pushed him away. This is after she found out she had hpv. She thinks it could have came from the oral sex. She said she didn't know why but memory loss happens to her from time to time. I have read that this does happen to borderlines. She might have even had intercourse for all I know. The fact is she did come to me and admit this and I told her it stung, but I still love her. This is the other part that I worry about. Not being honest with her when she was honest with me. In the same turn though. I don't want to cause more damage. I would like to work on bettering my relationship with her. Even if it is only a friendship for now.

I think having empathy for her feelings of abandonment, rejection, betrayal, unfaithfulness might help her heal.

Oh, I did find the relationship tooled BTW. Thank you!
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 10:26:29 AM by Carguy » Logged
Mutt
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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2020, 12:03:58 PM »

I just wanted to point something out so that you're aware of it but it doesn't sound like she has anyone else lined up. If you were to assert boundaries again and you should defend them, you may get a different reaction if there was someone else lined up in the background I just want to make you aware of that and that's it.

Excerpt
A week later she came over to my house on a Sunday and admitted the night before she was with another guy and they got naked but she pushed him away because she wanted it to be me.

What does your intuition say? Do you believe this or not?

That being said, I agree with : khibomsis I would not talk about having sex with someone else, you were on a break and I can understand that you have some guilty feelings about it. I would recommend to keep the discussion of your feelings here with us or talk to a friend or someone trusted but how I would approach this I would keep it light hearted and joke about it. I would simply say I have a policy that I don't kiss and tell. Say it light-heartedly, she's testing you and this is her insecurity talking, you're not responsible for her insecurities.

You could look at this way this could be an exercise for you, assert your boundaries, if she is testing you remain centered, if you discuss this with her what do you think is going to come out of it? You had a break, you had sex with someone else maybe it was too soon but at least you're not getting hung up on one person, you had a chance to work on your r/s skills.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 12:09:52 PM by Mutt » Logged

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Carguy
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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2020, 02:12:04 PM »

The thought crossed my mind too, and I don't believe there is another guy but I have to wonder if there is too. Every time I've seen her in public or on the weekends when she doesn't have her kids she is with this new female friend. She may be getting her emotional needs met with this female friend right now. She struggles with close friends and hasn't had a best friend for a few years and it was a sore point with her. She does the same thing with them as she does with romantic relationships.

So I was responding to the last message and ran to lunch real quick and she text me.

Her text:

C, I thought about catching the movie this weekend. I cannot go. I am working on me and my healing. I am keeping our boundaries in place of only texting about the kitties needing to go to the vet or death. Also about my vehicles or when I donate money for cat food. That's it. I am committed  to my healing. I am going to do whatever it takes to take care of me. If you text me about any other stuff I will not respond. I hope we can make this work with the boundaries. I wish you well and that you heal.

I haven't responded as I'm not sure what to say yet. I had a feeling she would cancel. Part of me wants to just say I understand and decided it's just best for me to go no contact with you and tell her we do need to figure out her vehicles and kitties cause they can't be there forever and I need to be able to move on fully but the other part of me thinks just say ok and stay away. Look at it like a kitty like Mutt said.

Lost at this point.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2020, 02:30:16 PM by Mutt, Reason: Removed identifying names » Logged
Mutt
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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2020, 02:24:17 PM »

Or it could be that another r/s hasn’t solidified yet. She knows that you’ll stick around and could be starting another r/s and have you to fall back on  that’s speculative for now but keep that in mind.

I wouldn’t tell her to take the cars and cats until you know 100% what you want to do. Step by step one by one, there’s no need to rush.

This other person that you didn’t want to tell her about sounds like the attraction level from her is really high so you could go and do something with them instead this weekend. I’m just throwing this out there, just have some fun.

I’d just reply back and say something like all the best, something short and sweet you don’t need to show emotion and you don’t have to justify yourself either. I’d respect her wishes and give her space if you walk away without saying much right now will make her curious about you, she’ll think about you and you want to leave things in a positive note.
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Carguy
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2020, 02:55:58 PM »

That's true. One thing that made me wonder about all this sudden change, her apartment complex is on my way to work and last week when I drove by, a couple of mornings there was a car park in the parking lot in front of her door. Mind you it can be somebody visiting the neighbour or it could be a new guy staying the night. It was there for two mornings and the afternoon of the second morning she contacted me and the car was no longer there in the mornings. I seen it was there this morning again. Maybe it is a replacement and they are making amends. And that's why the change again.

On the other person, and after a couple of weeks of getting to know each other her ex-boyfriend contacted her and she went back to him and now moved two and a half hours away to be with him. There is another girl that wanted to meet for drinks, but she is two and a half hours away. I could go down there and take her to the movie this weekend instead?

I liked your response of "all the best" and used it. She replied after a few minutes with "thanks". You might be right on making her curious. In the past I would have responded with a longer text about how I was hoping we could have contact but I guess not so I'll have to respect her wishes and go on for a bit. This was short and sweet and showed nothing. That might eat at her a little bit and make her wonder. She told me she could see the changes in me in that positive text she sent the other day. Maybe this will make her think even more about the fact that I have changed.
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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2020, 03:10:25 PM »

There is another girl that wanted to meet for drinks, but she is two and a half hours away. I could go down there and take her to the movie this weekend instead?

I'm sorry to hear about the other person but when you break up with someone it's not always a clean break it can be a lot of small break ups until the big one so it sounds like they're not ready to break-up.

You have someone else that wanted to meet you for drinks that telegraphs a high level of attraction you are doing something correct and you should celebrate that you have people that want to be with you so you're probably an attractive guy with attractive qualities that the opposite sex can appreciate.

I'd go for drinks it gives you an opportunity to practice relationship skills and I'm not saying that you're going there with a r/s in mind but skills with interacting with the opposite sex.

Excerpt
You might be right on making her curious. In the past I would have responded with a longer text about how I was hoping we could have contact but I guess not so I'll have to respect her wishes and go on for a bit.

By saying less it makes you look less needy, it's OK to have your feelings about all of this and talk about it but if she's not interested in being in a r/s right now then it can make it awkward for her to want to talk about this. If you're not getting angry at her or give her a hard time then you're leaving positive thoughts about you in her mind what I mean if the last experience leaves her with negative feelings about you then you're just making it harder for yourself because it will take her time to let go of those negative thoughts and feelings and you're going to have a better chance if she has good thoughts about you plus you're making it more mysterious about you, you'll get her curiosity going.

look at this way it sounds like you have had some recycles in the past and you probably went back by doing the exact same things and from what I'm hearing from you is that you want things to be different, nothing changes without change so this time do things differently - stepping away gracefully and working on yourself and just enjoy yourself too, if you want to go for drinks this weekend with this other person go for it! That way you're not allowing yourself to get hung up on just one person, practice your relationships skills and just enjoy yourself. Keep things light, don't talk about past r/s experiences and just relax and enjoy yourself. Just go with the flow.
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Carguy
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« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2020, 03:38:24 PM »

That makes sense. Another thought I have is she could flip back the other way. It likely won't happen immediately but if it does in the next few days and she decides she does want to go to the movies again maybe I should tell her sorry but I've already made plans (even if I haven't)? I've been reading lately about things like that and not be available or jump to go out with them (especially if they cancelled). What are your opinions on this? I don't want her to feel rejected but maybe add to the mystery and non-neediness?

You're right, we have recycled many many times and it has always been the same. I would like it to be different if we did try again for a relationship. I am starting to see that I really do need to do things a lot different with neediness and codependency.

 my thought would be to just go out with this girl and get to know her. Maybe enjoy the company of someone else to go out to dinner and a movie with.
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« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2020, 03:43:52 PM »

The other thing that doesn't make sense is how she was apologizing the other day for not being empathetic to my messages especially when I was trying to help her and so on and she was open to hearing my open heart text if I wanted to still send it and such. She basically was apologizing for not responding to my messages or listening and being empathetic and now she switched right back to don't message me or I won't respond unless it's about a certain things. It makes me wonder if she will flip the other way again?
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« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2020, 03:47:21 PM »

Excerpt
That makes sense. Another thought I have is she could flip back the other way. It likely won't happen immediately but if it does in the next few days and she decides she does want to go to the movies again maybe I should tell her sorry but I've already made plans (even if I haven't)? I've been reading lately about things like that and not be available or jump to go out with them (especially if they cancelled). What are your opinions on this? I don't want her to feel rejected but maybe add to the mystery and non-neediness?

I agree with of this and I want to add this and you probably already know this but if you have access to something all of the time then your desire for it decreases because it’s plentiful but if something is scarce or rare then you want that thing.

I could name a lot of things that are platonic about going out this weekend, it’s good for your mental health, self care that you don’t need to associate it with guilty feelings as it stands right now are you in a r/s? Are you obligated and you also stepped away and respected what she wanted as well too.

To answer your first point yes don’t make yourself available all if the time.
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« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2020, 03:53:09 PM »

The other thing that doesn't make sense is how she was apologizing the other day for not being empathetic to my messages especially when I was trying to help her and so on and she was open to hearing my open heart text if I wanted to still send it and such. She basically was apologizing for not responding to my messages or listening and being empathetic and now she switched right back to don't message me or I won't respond unless it's about a certain things. It makes me wonder if she will flip the other way again?

I'd trust your judgement, listen to your intuition, stay centered even though she's not centered right now, I'm not saying that she's testing you but she'll test you and you want to show that whatever test that she's throwing at you won't throw you off your center, my advice is let it go and stay centered - do not respond to that.
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« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2020, 07:03:40 PM »

True, I'm not in a relationship.

I've been thinking on the part that she said only text about those things. The part that she says about when she donates money to feed the kitties. I won't say anything now but I kind of feel like if she text me about it to tell her she doesn't need to because I will see it on my account and see who it is from. It is unnecessary and at that point tell her to please not text me anymore unless she has decided to remove her vehicles from my property or take her kitties. Also if she texts again to feel me out about leaving her vehicles here like she has in the past after she knows she's hurt or upset me (like telling me if it's a problem to let her know) I might respond telling her we already discussed this and to please respect my no contact boundary. What do you think?

Basically I feel she negated everything she said the other day about apologizing and about not being empathetic to my texts and what I was saying and how she felt triggered feeling like I was trying to pull her into the same cycle and not looking past that. I feel since she reversed everything she said then I need to reverse and go back to going no contact.

If she decides she actually wants to talk and work something out or apologize and mean it I might be willing to talk. Right now I am hurt though.

I also ran to Wal-Mart after work and turned down the parking row that I always turned down (she also parks on that one when at work) and as I was coming down at she was standing at the back of her vehicle with her friend and I went around them. She seen me but as I approached and went around her she looks straight ahead across the parking lot acting like I was not there. She's back to that as well. That hurts too.
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« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2020, 08:36:35 PM »

To your point about the texts I would suggest to put that on the back burner for now and come back to it in two or three days I say that because you’ll think differently about it then.

Excerpt
If she decides she actually wants to talk and work something out or apologize and mean it I might be willing to talk. Right now I am hurt though.

I wouldn’t want to talk to her either after she said she wanted no contact. She could be doing it to get the power back in the r/s or maybe she’s angry because you set boundaries or maybe even both. I wager it’s probably the latter.

You obviously care about her a lot and I would feel hurt too if someone that hurt me looked the other way after all of the patience that I showed that person and all of the compassion that I gave to them because it would feel ungrateful for the things that I’ve done for them.

She’s looking the other because she feels ashamed.

I also want to add that this no contact is probably a blessing in disguise because think of it this way - you’re hurt now you probably hurt in the r/s the distance will give you self protect use the time to heal.
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« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2020, 09:06:35 PM »

Thank you so much for your insight on these things Mutt! It helps me,see it from a different light and maybe understand the actions better.

I think you are right about holding off for a few days. I have been trying to be more mindful and not react from hurt. That's why I wanted to ask here first before acting.

That is a very good point on the power or upset about boundaries. Honestly she has been a controlling person in our relationship and even when we're not together and she is upset at me she is controlling. One example is before she moved her truck off my property a while back I asked her if she could come down and move it to a different spot on my property and it was always when she had time. She would tell me a day and then when that day came she would push it back a few more weeks on a few more weeks until I finally got irritated and told her I wanted it moved that weekend and I would provide a ride to my house and back to her apartment if needed. The second time was a few months ago. I let her bring her truck back last fall where we unloaded it I told her we'll temporary until we can move it that weekend. We didn't do it and then came the split and again it was on her time and she pushed it back again (it's finally moved out of the way).

I never thought about her doing it out of shame! Thanks for that insight!

So I know that there is no guarantee to win back an ex BPD but from what I'm gathering from our conversation here is my best bet is to not text or talk to her anymore and stay away from her and live my life and work on myself and give her a chance to wonder and miss me. Keep the mystery in there as well and don't show emotion to her? Also don't be readily available if she does reach out and from what others have said too, don't do favours?
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« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2020, 09:40:20 PM »

I’m glad that I could help a little bit. You are welcome. If she wants to have space then respect that.

Work on yourself, you have trucks on your property, work on your vehicles, work out in a gym or in a home gym or both, eat healthy, get enough sleep, take out two minutes of each day and do breathing exercises, get some fresh air outside and go for a walk our bodies are made to move so move your body, do things that you enjoy and meditate.

Take really good care of yourself and make yourself not so available all of the time, make yourself mysterious, be light hearted, you can have emotions and stuff but for now don’t telegraph that you’re hurt to her. Talk about it here.

PS Just don’t let people take advantage of your good nature if you want to do favor it’s up to you but draw a line of you have to and don’t feel bad about drawing that line  Being cool (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2020, 05:07:36 AM »

Yes, Carguy, Mutt is giving very good guidance. We are here for you when you need to process the pain.
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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2020, 02:37:50 PM »

Thanks Khib!

Honestly this has hurt me deeply. It still continues to.

15 years ago I met her and we dated for a few months and I thought she was an incredible person then we went our separate ways as she was not ready but ran into each other from time to time and remained friends through the years.

 4 years ago we came back together and started dating again and I got to know her on a much deeper level this time. I fell completely in love with this girl! I even took her back to Canada to meet my father's side of the family. The only other girl I have ever taken up there was my ex-wife.

 I could not believe how she was everything I ever looked for and felt incredibly fortunate to find all of that in 1 person! We talked about marriage several times. She even mentioned it several months I go before this huge split between us.

 The last couple of years have been rocky and we have recycled several times but this is the worst things have ever been between us and the hardest she has ever pushed away. She has went from everything I ever wanted to everything I feared.

At this point I believe in her mind it is over completely and I'm not sure she will ever want to try to work things out with me.

Last week when she sent me the text apologizing for not having empathy for the text messages I was sending her and not looking past being triggered (feeling like we were just going back into the same cycle) and being open to me sending the open-hearted text I asked if I could send two weeks before (she ignored that text asking if I could) I was surprised! She hasn't apologized or admitted any fault for a couple of years! I thought maybe she was starting to think about things and soften her heart to me. now I feel like it was just a way to get me to open up my heart to her so she knew she still had control over me. Head hurt how fast she went right back. It's like everything she said last week she did not mean.
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« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2020, 11:19:33 AM »

Dear Carguy, I am so sorry to hear things went south! You seem to be doing the right thing though, stick to your no contact and focus on yourself. Try to remember the strong, confident guy she fell in love with, that can only come from the inside.

How much do you know about BPD? Have you read "Stop Walking on Eggshells"? I mention this because having context about the illness may help you forgive her sooner. And you certainly don't want to be carrying this baggage into your future.

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« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2020, 02:02:59 PM »

Thanks Khib!

Unfortunately I caved a little today. Last night I went into Wal-Mart to get a few things and one item was in her department. I walked past her and glanced over and as I was just starting to look away I think she looked up. I grabbed the item and left and when I walked back by she looked at me and her expression wasn't one of anger but maybe sadness? Or concern? Not sure. Anyhow I think I likely had a bit of an angry face and she looked back down (I'm thinking maybe the shame that Mutt mentioned) and I looked back straight ahead and kept walking.

Afterwards and today I starting worrying about it and when I stopped to get some lunch at Wal-Mart she was working one of the checkouts. I went through her's and when she looked up and seen me she kind of smiled warmly but when I got up there she instantly turned cold and I could tell she looked very annoyed that I was standing right there. I told her that I was concerned that maybe I'd look like I was angry at her last night and I wanted to let her know that I was not. I told her I was worried about that and that was all I wanted to say. She said okay and I told her to have a good day and she didn't say anything. I can tell she's angry and that was probably a mistake. I need to really work on staying no contact.

 I have done reading on BPD and I have heard of that book but have not read it. I'm thinking I need to buy a copy and read it!

She might send me an angry text about last night and today and she might not. If she does would I just be better to not respond? I really was concerned about her feelings.
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« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2020, 03:37:45 AM »

Dear CarGuy, to be honest I was thinking that NC might not be appropriate in a situation where you will at some point have to talk about cats and cars. The more so if you plan to keep shopping at WalMart  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Have you thought of Low Contact? It is of all the modes the hardest one to do, you don't get the emotional clarity you get with NC, because you have to devote a good deal of time and attention to get it right. On the other hand you might as well do that as ruminate. And it gives a consistency from which you can either go NC or hopefully, move towards a more structured engagement.

My version of LC is "Speak when spoken to". I try to match the form of communication as well, so if I receive a text I respond by text, if I get a missed call I call back, etc. It is hard, the first month I did this I literally kept a list of interactions and gave myself a tick for each day I got it right. The trick is keeping it brief and friendly without getting into any emotional depths. And greeting when your paths cross but not slowing your pace or going out of your way to see her..   

What do you think? Might it work?

Here's the Stop Walking on Eggshells audiobook. Educating yourself is completely the right approach. The more you know the more empowered you will be. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QY4JZJonCs

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« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2020, 12:20:10 PM »

Thank you for the link Khib! I'm going to check it out!

I think low contact would be a good idea with her leading the way on that. That  might end up being no contact because in the past she very rarely has reached out to me. She is quite good at  just going no contact. It was usually I that reached out so I don't see her reaching out. I expect once in awhile having contact about her stuff will happen. It has even been pointed out to me that she has some of her stuff there so she has a reason to contact with me.

The thought in my head this morning is sending her one last text. In the past I asked her if I could send her an open-hearted text and at that time I wanted to send her a text about when I was seeing this other girl. Lead off with the last open-hearted text I sent I did not go into everything I wanted to because I knew this a sore spot and did not want to make things worse. Tell her that to prevent her from being triggered I'm not trying to open a path of communication to get her back but sending this because I can see her hurt. Tell her I'm not asking her to come back, to be my friend, or even to like me. In just sending this in hopes to alleviate some of her pain. I wanted to tell her that I moved on too fast when I wasn't over her. Tell her that I told this girl in the beginning that I wasn't ready to jump into anything because I I just got out of a relationship with her and this girl was very understanding and told me we did not have to rush into anything. Tell her that this girls and I were not actually in a relationship and in the end she went back to her boyfriend because neither of us were over our exes. Empathise with her feelings of hurt. Tell her that even though we were not together I do realize that to her it felt like I was unfaithful and the hurt was still very real and painful. Tell her that I know In this relationship we were close to marriage at one point so I can see this has been very hurtful to her and then I don't like to see her hurt. Let her know that I know she won't respond but to please read the text and that her feelings of hurt are very human and I understand her hurt. Something along those lines. Finish with I will go no contact with her for the best of both of us.

What is your opinion on this? Do you think this would help her heal or just upset her more that I didn't respect her boundaries of not talking about other things? I'm not sure if this would be a good idea or just staying low to no contact would be better.
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« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2020, 05:47:38 AM »

Carguy, don't tell her anything at the moment. She doesn't want to hear it. Respecting her wishes is the best communication you can have at this time.

What you are looking for is closure. I had a bad break up with a girlfriend with BPD many years ago and the one thing I learnt is that sometimes you just aren't going to get closure. Make your peace with it. In technical terms she is putting you on the shelf ready for another recycle. Should that happen it is important that she learns to respect you and now is the time you teach her that lesson.

I am glad you took time to write it out for us, hopefully it will help to get some pain out of your system. Feel free to ruminate on the board here, check out other posts and converse. Community really helps.

The way you will get to communicate those things to her is slowly over time. If you go low contact - don't worry, I think it likely she will contact you but in her own time, not yours - then you might get to  communicate those ideas one short text at a time. For now, focus on yourself, accept that healing is something you are going to have to do for yourself. She will not help you through it.

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« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2020, 09:15:23 PM »

Thanks Khib!

I've listened to almost half of that audio book at work so far. Very informative!

I ran into her twice in Wal-Mart since my last post. Saturday even though she was only a few feet from me and facing me she was looking past me at one of her co-workers behind me talking to her and acting like I was not there. I just looked straight ahead and walked on by. Tonight I seen her and she looked directly at me so I said Hey to her.

I've decided that your advice of mirroring her with communication I will carry over into interacting as well. If she looks away and doesn't acknowledge me I will just continue walking but if she looks directly at me without hurrying to turn away I will say hey to her. I'm thinking maybe that's the best thing to do right now until she reaches out and wants communication with me again.
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« Reply #27 on: February 25, 2020, 03:10:05 AM »

Well done, Carguy! You are doing a great job - that "mirroring communication" is putting a concept into words that I have never thought of.

How is your inner peace? I am hoping that as you better understand the illness you will have more compassion for her. You have no control over what she does, but every moment you manage to keep yourself content and at peace is a victory at this stage. And when the two of you do start talking you will have more positive energy to give her.

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« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2020, 09:30:27 AM »

Staff only

This thread reached the max post limit and has been locked and split.  The conversation continues here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=343355.msg13102442#msg13102442

Thank you.
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