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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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daze507
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« on: March 09, 2020, 06:31:38 AM »

Hi everyone,

I am writing here because I recently came by accident across some literature about BPD and this has been like a revelation for me when it comes to what happened during my last relationship that ended two years ago. This article just described everything I went through perfectly.
Basically, my relationship with this girl, a beautiful, intelligent, sweet, empathic and caring girl went from the perfect dream to total hell in a matter of a few days.
She went from two months of “Where were you all this time, you’re the love of my life, I’ll never leave you” to “I can’t stand looking at you anymore, I need my space” in a blink of an eye.
From the sweetness, love and happiness I could see in her eyes I slowly started to contemplate fury, hate and disgust towards me. From my ideal partner, the woman I’ve always looked for, I started to be with someone I did not even know.
Looking back, I realize that there’s always been red flags, many, glimpses of strange behaviour or talks that I just chose to ignore altogether, I convinced myself it was just due to stress because she was changing job.
Then, one Saturday evening, I met her other (real?) personality for the first time.
It happened after one week during which I could not see her because of my work, I did not text her too much as well because I was exhausted. This evening, it was her birthday and I just decided to take a taxi to meet her instead of my car because I was still tired.
Long story short, when I met her, she did not kiss me, she waited a few moment to be alone with me and started to throw a tantrum about how I ignored her, how she really expected me to take my car, how she also expected me to book a restaurant and several other crazy things.
I did not do that because she never really cared, we always enjoyed at lot hanging around the city, holding hands to find random places to have dinner, why should have I ever changed that?
Anyway, this evening, I realized for the first time that she was unhappy because I was not fulfilling the fantasy she had in her mind, that I was not providing the feeling she was expecting. This evening, without knowing anything about BPD, I realized she did not care about me as a person.
From that point it just got worse and worse. She was yelling at me for things I did not even do or say, could go from ecstatic to angry in a matter of a few minutes, saying stuff that did not even make sense at all.
At some point, I just remained passive, not even saying anything anymore, not even trying to argue because I realized it was totally pointless. Then, she started with the “You’re not the same person as before, you have changed” which was completely true, but I really think she did not have any idea that this change was just a reaction to her own change of personality. Looking back, I think she really did not realizedthat she transformed from a sweet girl to a yelling devil, in her mind she's probalby always been the same.
To be honest, despite the fact I realized something was not right and that she was not behaving like a normal person, I still thought it was all my fault and my self-esteem was under the ground, I really felt extremely guilty and not enough.
I was contemplating that beautiful dream dissolving before my eyes and the more I was trying to save it the more it was dissolving, this only thing was so painful, it was like a nightmare but awake.
Finally, I was so desperate and sad that I ended up almost crying in front of her. That very moment, I could contemplate the maximum expression of pity and disgust in the way she was looking at me, then, after a few seconds, she started yelling at me again saying “And don’t cry like a f* baby!”.
It think that was the last straw, this person had nothing to do anymore with the person I met, nothing at all.
The day after that episode, she just called me at work to tell me she was done with it, like that, without any trace of emotion, I was being discarded like a used tissue. I even discovered she was on online dating apps a few days after, like I did not really had existed at all in her life.
On my side however, I was devastated, I had been going through literally hell for weeks and weeks.
To this day I have never heard of her anymore. I just know, from her Linkedin profile, that she changed jobs a few times and very recently moved to a city far away (the one we were planing to visit together).
Now I understand, all these hours and hours I spent trying to find an explanation to these things were useless because there was basically nothing to explain, she was just not living in the same reality plane as me anymore at some point of our story.
If on one hand I feel relieved because I am now aware that nothing was my fault in the failure of this relationship and that nothing could have convinced her that I was genuinely loving her and not trying to use, destroy or abandon her like she claimed.
On the other hand, I have the confirmation that all this beautiful story never really existed, that she did not really love me despite what she said and that she probably doesn’t remember at all this wonderful moments we spent together as I am writing these lines.
Two years after the breakup, it is still so painful to accept these facts. I have moved on but still, you can’t forget such memories that easily.
I really wish I could have been aware of all that before, I wish I could have understood the red flags, acted accordingly and most of all, avoided to compromise myself on such a deep emotional level.
I feel angry at myself because of my past ignorance, you tend to think it will never affect you, so you don’t really care but then but when it does, you’re not prepared and you don’t understand what on earth happens to you.
She never told me she had issues (however she told me her mum had), so it’s either she is not aware, either she purposely chose to hide it from me, I will never know the truth.
I wish I could have been of some help in her life, someone who had a real relevance, but in the end I am just one more ex added to the list. I did nothing to make her life better.
I think people in general should be more aware of this kind of disorder, it could avoid a lot of lack of understanding and suffering.
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Ziggiddy
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« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2020, 07:36:18 AM »

Hi daze507
My heart goes out to you through the painful experience you have had. it's soul shattering to feel so thrilled and happy and ecstatic that you found someone who you you connected with in what seems like such a deep and abiding way only to find it change so abruptly and with such little logical sense.
There's a behaviour that people wBPD have that is central to the disorder that's called splitting. It starts with idealisation of the partner - you are everything they ever dreamed of ... well much the same way that you felt I guess - to being thoroughly demonised and treated as though you are worthless.
If your partner does have BPD you may have experienced that strange combination of events.
It leaves you reeling without any way of really comprehending what's happened.
It often happens over what seems like such a small/trivial event. It's like getting a $10000 fine for a $5 crime. Even worse when you didn't really commit a crime other than be tired and not mind read what your partner may have wanted.
Seems to me that she could have extended some sympathy and understanding that you had a rough day instead of coming down on you that way.
pwBPD are extremely sensitive to any sensation of abandonment and unfortunately, they can imagine abandonment in the slightest or most unrelated of things.
It must have been very shocking and painful for you to discover she was on dating apps too when you thought she was as into you as you had been into her.
In normal r'ships, people take time to recover and grieve when they end rather than move on instantly looking for someone else.

You mentioned that she had never told you she had issues but said that her mum had. Did she tell you what issues her mum had?

You also said that you wished you'd been able to make her life better. or been some help to her. What was it that you thought you could have done to help?
Ziggiddy
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daze507
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« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2020, 08:10:00 AM »

Thank you Ziggiddy, I really appreciate.

I am a quite introvert guy and usually never complain or talk much about how I feel so for her defence she could not have known that I was tired. However, for me, the only thing that mattered that day was to see her again, I did not care a bit in what circumstances. Just witnessing the fact that for her, it was not like that at all just killed me inside, literally. I could not comprehend what was happening. She’d always been so ecstatic every time she saw me, jumping into my arms etc. Here it was about the car and the restaurant, I was like “what the hell is going on?”.
Yes, I has been painful to see that she had moved on so easily but at the same time, it told me that she did not deserve my love and care and helped to move on too.
About her mum, I just know she divorced her father, I don’t know when and how, she told me she was “completely crazy” and that she had several huge fights with her. I did not ask anything more.
Well, I think that if I had been able to identify the disorder (knowing that it existed in the first place) I would have tried to make her understand that she had a real issue that needed cure and medication.
However, not knowing that, I allowed her to shatter me and disappear without me having any influence on her life at all. She probably did that with other guys after me and who know how many others will have to go through that…
I have just read the article “How a Borderline Relationship Evolves” here and it’s exactly what I experienced. Even the “sex” part is spot on.

Raphael
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daze507
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« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2020, 09:39:20 AM »

Another interesting thing I forgot to mention, she had a seven years relationship with what I could only describe as a narcissist before me. Needless to say it’s been a constant fighting that has led to physical abuse in the end, that’s why she broke up with him, al least if what she said to me was true. Back then, I put the all responsability on this guy but now, I undestand it was probably more complex than that and that they were both fueling their own issues with their partner.
I read somewhere that narcissists are the only one that can sustain a long term relationship (even if very unhealthy) with a BPD because they are both co-dependent and they bring stability to the BPD.

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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2020, 12:27:59 PM »

Thank you for your clarification there Daze. If there was conflict in her home, that could have led to her having issues with relationship intimacy.
It's a bit sad that she was more focussed on what you should be doing for her for her birthday than being happy to be hanging out with you.
One thing I have learned from dealing with multiple pwBPD is that quite often their actions have little or nothing to do with you at all.

I'm glad you found the article helpful. the more information you can compare with, the better you will be able to understand both her state of mind and your own. It will help you in healing which you deserve.
It is no joke to be involved with a borderline-affected person. It's a giant emotional roller coaster.
You mentioned the ex she had before you - did you know him? Or did you pick up that he seemed narcissistic from things your partner had told you?
It's good that you have had the insight to recognise that you were influenced by your partner's views.
One thing I have found very VERY common with pwBPD is that they blame everyone else for anything that's not right in their life. And the most common person they blame is their SO. You may find that she was projecting her own behaviours onto him - although it may be that the fellow was narcissistic- borderlines and narcissists often be in r'ships together.
Hopefully you will get closer to the truth of everything that happened.
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« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2020, 12:55:13 PM »

I think that the car/restaurant was just a pretext, the first one of a long series to come.
She just entered her “hate” phase in our relationship and since I was not really doing anything wrong, at least anything serious, she had to find things to blame me for. After that I've been blamed for so many petty and insignificant things like it was all part of a grand stratagem to ruin her life, you have no idea how surrealistic is was.

Yes, if half of the things she told me about her ex were true, this guys was a huge narcissist borderline psychopath but who knows it was really the truth or a distorded perception, who know if SHE was not the abuser.
I saw her in her "devil" mode and believe me that, despite my 6'2, I was not reassured.
I am also sure that often, she reported traits on me that was actually traits of her ex. like when she was sure about something I said/did things and was not true, I am quite certain she mixed up myself and her ex in her mind. How can you even defend yourself when you are blamed for someone else's fault?

I know at this point that I will never know more truth than that, I will most probably never see her again since she’s moved far away. It’s all over, permanently.
I would love to forget the “happy memories” too now but that’s just impossible, I will just have to learn to ignore them as best as I can.
Do you think BDP can have healthy relationships? From what I saw they can’t. I mean, I’m not the perfect guy, far from that, I can be offensive and tell unwolcome and inappropriate jokes sometimes, but my love was genuine, and I did the best I could to make it work.
It's sad, really sad, because all in all, that girl is really a very nice girl, she really care about others. I saw her to stop and talk to every homeless people we crossed, it was all genuine. She is just damaged to the core, what a waste... Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)
That is why I have no resentment for her, I don’t hate her, I just hope she will find her peace eventually.
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« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2020, 11:38:30 PM »

Anyone who truly wants to learn how and has the capacity for it can learn to be healthy. Sadly the strange  thing about BPD as with most Cluster B disorders is that the egocentricity and belief in one's own 'rightness' often prevent people with them from seeing themselves in an honest flawed light. it's not impossible - it's just very very hard.
BPD exists on a spectrum which means you can have a lot of it or a little of it. The symptoms are also on a spectrum - some of them don't show up at all or at least show up infrequently or to a small degree.
if she was sympathetic to homeless people then that is one example.

Not everyone who has BPD is malignant or intentionally abusive but they all have difficulties in emotion regulation which lead them into instability which can often result in people around being hit by the shrapnel. they may not be intending to hurt you but getting hit by the fallout is going to cause injury whether it's intentional or not.

It's interesting you mentioning that you thought she mixed you and her ex up in her mind. You may even find others are mixed in there too. Perhaps even herself.
It's been theorised with some good research that the acting out behaviours are a reflection of or a re-enactment of the trauma they went through that caused the core wound. I have found that to be very true with at least 3 people I have been close to casting me into the exact role of their wounding mothers then re-enacting their childhood trauma using me as the scapegoat. it was uncanny. i intuitively felt that during abusive moments I could actually SEE that they weren't seeing me.
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« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2020, 11:42:06 PM »

PS although your memories of her may be painful or bittersweet now, in the future they will likely mellow. I don't think there's anything wrong with keeping the good things from the r'ship.
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daze507
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« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2020, 01:52:02 AM »

Thank you Ziggiddy for your answers,
Yes, I know she didn't mean to harm me. It's just that contemplating the person you love progressively seeing you as the monster your are not is excruciating. I tried to be as loving, caring and supporting as I could but it was all useless, she wouldn't return to the idealisation phase no matter what I did.
I saw exactly the same thing than you, I remember that when we fought I sometimes yelled at her "It's me Raphael, you're talking to me!", I wanted her to wake-up from that bad dream so much but she wouldn't.
The memories are still painful, especially when I see places (a table in a pub, a simple bench etc.) where we used to spens hours talking about everything.
I dated a few girls after her, and it helped but, it's never been the same and I always ended up dumping them from boredom.
I read in several times that it's hard for someone who was involved in a relationship with a BPD to appreciate the new relationships because we don't find the same intensity back and it's disappointing.
Now it doesn't really matter because I chose to go MGTOW and I am very happy with my choice but these memories... They haunt me to this day.
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« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2020, 04:18:04 PM »

Hey daze, I feel for you and what you are facing, at the same time I think you have worked it out well and understand the real situation you encountered. I also had very similar experiences. I was reassured that it was not me after all, after I was horribly discarded but then she tried to recycle me, suddenly I was the greatest guy in the world again. During the time she discarded me, she was a different person, I was around a stranger and I was blamed along with other men, her father, brother, etc for all the bad that had happened in her life. She was done as she told me then. But then she was back and I was the love of her life. So it is confusing but then one understands that there was always something not quite right. I chose to ignore it during my time together. I feel sorry for her, I am not angry, she couldn’t help it, her inside life was a mess she could not get out or fix that. I do miss the nice times, her intelligence, the bad times were terrible, so happy to be away from that chaos. My life now, after years on NC it’s clear, I am back out of the fog. But it took some time and lots of learning about a condition that like you I didn’t know it even existed, I was clueless.
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daze507
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« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2020, 04:48:50 PM »

Hi Raul, I read many stories here and in the end, despite some variations, they all are similar in their development, both when it comes to the BPD and their partner.
The common thing is the blame, the BPS never ever questions himself, it's the world's fault, everybody is scheming against them.
My ex told me once, when everything was still good, that her dream was to be a lesbian but that she didn't like women sexually.
I told her that lesbians are not the little angels she believed, I know that because my best friend is gay in a lgbt group and he told me they are fighting pretty much all the time. When I told that to her she looked at me with a strange face and did not answer.
It's funny because there are so many things that I could not explain back then but now that I look at it from a BPD perspective it all makes so much sense.
For instance, the first time she came to my house, the first thing she said was "if you disappear I know where to find you know" -> First sign of fear of abandonment.
Then I understand people, because of the suffering thye experience, thinking "what if, I should have done that or this" etc. but in reality it was screwed up from the beginning.
I remember the very first crisis she had. It was the day before an interview for a new job. In the middle of the night, I woke up and heard her swearing against someone in the bathroom so I listened and after some time it was clear I was that someone.
Then she went in the living room to sleep on the carpet, I offered to bring her some blanket and a pillow but she refused so I went back to sleep. A while after she want back to bed all cuddling, the crisis was over. The day after, I asked her about the swearing and she went mad saying that it never happened. Today I think she really forgot. I am pretty sure what happened is that I probably moved during my sleep or snorted, I woke her up, and she interpreted that as a tentative to sabotage her interview so you see, they find a way to blame you even when you sleep. My guts told me for the first time this day that there was something very wrong with this girls but like you I ignored, the idealisation and intensity were too good.
That's why people who are still suffering and still think it's all their fault have to understand they could not have changed the outcome no matter what. You cannot have a relationship with a BPS, especially if they are not aware and are not treated, because, it's just impossible.
Today was a good day, I almost did not think about her and when I did I juat felt kind of numb, I think I'm getting out of that relapse.
Still, I will stay here in case I can advise or help someone, knowing how excruciating it can be I cannot but do my part.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 05:04:16 PM by daze507 » Logged
daze507
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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2020, 08:17:45 AM »

There is also something else I've just realised.
When she "discarded" me she was extremely cold doing it however, when I told her "I will never forget this moment and that moment" she cried while answering "Me too, me too".
I did not understand why back then but now I do, the realize that, because of the BPDs memory issues, she did not really remember these moments. That's why she cried.

https://www.quora.com/What-happens-if-you-ignore-a-person-with-BPD-after-a-discard

You know guys, something I think I would have rather not discovered the existence of BPD because, I think I rather liked the fact that it was all my fault more in the end.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2020, 08:25:39 AM by daze507 » Logged
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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2020, 11:03:44 AM »

Long story short, when I met her, she did not kiss me, she waited a few moment to be alone with me and started to throw a tantrum about how I ignored her, how she really expected me to take my car, how she also expected me to book a restaurant and several other crazy things.
I did not do that because she never really cared, we always enjoyed at lot hanging around the city, holding hands to find random places to have dinner, why should have I ever changed that?
Anyway, this evening, I realized for the first time that she was unhappy because I was not fulfilling the fantasy she had in her mind, that I was not providing the feeling she was expecting. This evening, without knowing anything about BPD, I realized she did not care about me as a person.


Daze...I have had a similar experience regarding birthdays. You and I sound a lot alike, too. I'm 6'2" and super fit, but her moods and looks would make me very nervous and walking on eggshells for fear of the sarcastic snap or lecture. I'm a very caring and soft hearted person, would never yell at anyone and would never call anyone names, like she did to me.

On the first birthday we spend together I was super excited to take her on a kayaking trip which I thought she loved, then I told her we'd go back to my place to have a nice dinner. I was thinking of a really nice place near my place, but she didn't like it so I asked her to pick another one. She seemed really annoyed and not nice, acting sullen and unhappy. The dinner was at a really nice place, well over $100 but not fun...then I gave her a $85 foot spa treatment at a place all my women friends said was so great. We went to bed and I reached toward her and she acted like she didn't know what I was doing, so I asked her if she just wanted to go go sleep and she barked at me "What do you want? If you want sex, touch me in a sexy way!" I called the foot spa the other day, and she never used the gift card I gave her, 17 months later.

Her second birthday we were camping and I brought along a beautiful card with a very warm and loving handwritten note and a dark craft chocolate bar from New Seasons and she absolutely hated it, telling me later in the day "I gave her a sh*tty card and a stupid chocolate bar that she doesn't even like" and "I gave her the sh*ttiest birthday ever and now she has to lie and cover up for me with her friends."  and "I put no effort and zero planning into her birthday".Literally yelling at me. We returned home that day from camping and she was angry and sullen and said she was feeling really unwell and needed to lay down. When she has this she always just takes the day to rest, so I told her I'd call her later. She texted later to say she was going to the farmers market like we always did, and I called her surprised that she was going out, at which point she savaged me for not making a special dinner reservation. I had planned on taking her out to dinner, explained that to her, but she was sick...to no avail.

Yet, 5 weeks earlier, while I kept her dog at my place because she was traveling for 3 weeks and to board her would have cost her $800, she completely forgot my birthday during a trip she had planned for 10 months down to the hour. She made no effort and did no planning for my birthday. I felt for her when she called me on the phone that day and I realized she had forgotten it was my birthday, so I gently said don't worry about it, it's ok...I love you. She brought me back a tin of cookies "as penance for forgetting my birthday"

It's baffling, isn't it? I tried to explain to her how confusing her anger is when she literally forgot my birthday 5 weeks earlier and literally put zero planning and zero effort into it, as she accused me, but she wouldn't even let me finish a sentence and started yelling at me again. I tried to explain to her that I provably did put effort and planning into her birthday and actually remembered it, but she cut me off to remind me again how PLEASE READty the card and craft dark chocolate bar was...I simply could not finish my sentence explaining my feelings as she cut me off repeatedly.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2020, 11:18:15 AM by jaded7 » Logged
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« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2020, 11:25:59 AM »

Thanks Jaded for sharing.
Yes, in the end, we can all relate to the same  kind of things. I suppose you were not aware of BPD as well a the time, weren't you?
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« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2020, 11:31:32 AM »

Thanks Jaded for sharing.
Yes, in the end, we can all relate to the same  kind of things. I suppose you were not aware of BPD as well a the time, weren't you?

No, I was not. I started looking up "angry girlfriend" and "yelling girlfriend' online to try to make sense of her behavior. I first came to realize that she was verbally and emotionally abusive, gaslighting and manipulating. Then I discovered bpd through that, specifically the rages. She would just snap at something I couldn't even understand, very often 'mind reading' what my "intentions" were, making up plans that I had 'cancelled'...so confusing.

I'm filled with regret now, we haven't spoken in 7 weeks and I'm so torn up, thinking about how much I love her, wanting to take care of her, but realizing that she has in fact been not nice and called me some horrible things. I miss her desperately and long for the text or email that says "I'm sorry, I called you some terrible things and wasn't thinking right...can we talk?". I also long to text her or call, but am afraid of more name calling and yelling.
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« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2020, 12:01:36 PM »

Oh, it's still very recent, I am sorry.
No, don't, it's our feelings that make us think this way. I read so many stories and, as harsh as it sounds, we dodged a bullet here, a very big one. Nothing, there's absolutely nothing we could have done. Stay strong.
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« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2020, 01:16:53 PM »

Oh, it's still very recent, I am sorry.
No, don't, it's our feelings that make us think this way. I read so many stories and, as harsh as it sounds, we dodged a bullet here, a very big one. Nothing, there's absolutely nothing we could have done. Stay strong.


Like you, my regret is that I may have behaved in precisely the wrong way, JADE and feeling hurt, getting my feelings hurt. I feel like I should have been more of a man, which is deeply shameful to me. If you read my story I started in January or February (Or leave...don't know what to do) you will see that I was sexually abused as a child, and her behavior to me during sex was extremely humiliating. This in addition to the testing and game playing and other humiliations...like I"m the worst driver ever and she will never, ever ride with me again. Or leaving alone at Christmas after inviting me up to her family's house...she simply stopped communicating or replying to messages for a week, then left town. Humiliating.
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« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2020, 01:35:42 PM »

I understand. Look, during one of her last crisis I lost it and almost cried in front of her. She humiliated me and felt humiliated.
But you know why, it's not because we are men that we have no weeknesses, especially when we are in love and see pur relationships crumple before our eyes. We have trauma too, I personally was not abused but my childhood was no peace of cake, at all, and I self-confidence issues.
I think we have to stop being ashamed of ourselves, we are not robots, we are human and we suffer and can lost our minds too.
I can tell you that, in the end, I did nothing wrong, I was the perfect loving and caring guy and she saw that, shw saw that I was not myself and went mad because of it.
Honestly, a relationship in which you to think about every word and every action you do is no relationship, it's pure hell and in the it would still have been the same end anyway.
Look at the good side, through our stories,nwe learnt about that illness but we also learnt a lot about ourselves. It's school of life.
Let's take the lesson, be proud of who we are and move on.
Our love was true, that what counts.
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Las1604

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« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2020, 03:08:21 PM »

Another interesting thing I forgot to mention, she had a seven years relationship with what I could only describe as a narcissist before me. Needless to say it’s been a constant fighting that has led to physical abuse in the end, that’s why she broke up with him, al least if what she said to me was true. Back then, I put the all responsability on this guy but now, I undestand it was probably more complex than that and that they were both fueling their own issues with their partner.
I read somewhere that narcissists are the only one that can sustain a long term relationship (even if very unhealthy) with a BPD because they are both co-dependent and they bring stability to the BPD.



Hi Daze, reading what you went through really sucks. I went through a 6 month relationship with a BPD. And yes, it is very common for long term relationships in BPD to only exist with people with NPD. In the end, when it does end, the BPD may well end up killing themselves or curling up in a ball for months and quitting their job. NPDs eat people with BPD for breakfast, and they're the "perfect" partner for the BPD. After the initial love bomb stage on both sides, the NPD completely withdraws while dangling a carrot that the BPD can never quite catch. If the NPD became too loving, the BPD would get scared and run. The BPD craves love and attention, but only as long as he/she does not have it. So it's the perfect toxic parasitic relationship for both. The BPD keeps desperately trying, so it takes a lot longer for the NPD to get "bored." When the NPD finally starts to devalue and treat the BPD like garbage, the BPD will more than likely be on suicide watch. I'm not joking.
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daze507
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« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2020, 03:32:27 PM »

Hi Las, that is interesting because it's exactly what happened. From her own words she has been "under his spell", then all the crazy stories of him treating her worst than garbage. Still she remained with him all time. You know why she left? Because the dude removed a door from its frame and was about to throw it at her... He did not only because she told him her dad would kill him.
Then she met me, the nice guy, and it was my turn to be eaten for breakfast. Funny how human interactions work, don't they?
I went through hell with this one but learnt so much.
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« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2020, 03:45:04 PM »

Hi Las, that is interesting because it's exactly what happened. From her own words she has been "under his spell", then all the crazy stories of him treating her worst than garbage. Still she remained with him all time. You know why she left? Because the dude removed a door from its frame and was about to throw it at her... He did not only because she told him her dad would kill him.
Then she met me, the nice guy, and it was my turn to be eaten for breakfast. Funny how human interactions work, don't they?
I went through hell with this one but learnt so much.

Yeah, I dated my xBPD about a year and a bit after she broke up with her NPD ex. What forced her to finally leave was the chronic abuse that finally started popping up.

Sadly, I was a little naive when she first told me she had BPD. I work in pharma, and attended seminars and did extensive reading on cluster B personality disorders. I thought I could deal with her (and according to her mother I was an angel Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)). I did better than almost anyone could. But in the end, same old story. Felt too smothered / got scared, and up and left because my affection for her was too much. It's a sad story for everyone involved.
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jaded7
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« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2020, 04:04:30 PM »

I understand. Look, during one of her last crisis I lost it and almost cried in front of her. She humiliated me and felt humiliated.
But you know why, it's not because we are men that we have no weeknesses, especially when we are in love and see pur relationships crumple before our eyes. We have trauma too, I personally was not abused but my childhood was no peace of cake, at all, and I self-confidence issues.
I think we have to stop being ashamed of ourselves, we are not robots, we are human and we suffer and can lost our minds too.
I can tell you that, in the end, I did nothing wrong, I was the perfect loving and caring guy and she saw that, shw saw that I was not myself and went mad because of it.
Honestly, a relationship in which you to think about every word and every action you do is no relationship, it's pure hell and in the it would still have been the same end anyway.
Look at the good side, through our stories,nwe learnt about that illness but we also learnt a lot about ourselves. It's school of life.
Let's take the lesson, be proud of who we are and move on.
Our love was true, that what counts.

I did cry in front of her, mostly due to beautiful music we were hearing at a show or theater, but sometimes when she did some manipulation designed to make me feel bad, then sent a horrifying email about how cruel and punishing I was (I'm not, and her emails like that and treatment of me show just how much of a projection this actually was- I'd never hurt her intentionally) I would call her in tears saying how sorry I was that I hurt her or she was scared...such a manipulation.

I am a very well centered and kind and honest person. I can stand up to anyone, and I do. I have stood up to a carjacker with a 9mm to my head, no sweat no panic, I grabbled my then girlfriend and pulled her out of the car on my side to get her away from him, put myself between her and the gunman...no thinking, no second thoughts about any of this. I've dealt with people dropping and passing out in my fitness business, cooly and calmly. I've dealt with bulked up ripped dudes on drugs coming into my business to steal stuff...again, cool and calm. People in my business at the time all noted how well I handle those situations.

But the last time she talked with me she told me she "needed someone who doesn't crumble under pressure". Just another example of her going for the most painful and cruel attack. And she calls me cruel and punishing.
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jaded7
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« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2020, 04:14:42 PM »

Anyone who truly wants to learn how and has the capacity for it can learn to be healthy. Sadly the strange  thing about BPD as with most Cluster B disorders is that the egocentricity and belief in one's own 'rightness' often prevent people with them from seeing themselves in an honest flawed light. it's not impossible - it's just very very hard.
BPD exists on a spectrum which means you can have a lot of it or a little of it. The symptoms are also on a spectrum - some of them don't show up at all or at least show up infrequently or to a small degree.
if she was sympathetic to homeless people then that is one example.

Not everyone who has BPD is malignant or intentionally abusive but they all have difficulties in emotion regulation which lead them into instability which can often result in people around being hit by the shrapnel. they may not be intending to hurt you but getting hit by the fallout is going to cause injury whether it's intentional or not.

It's interesting you mentioning that you thought she mixed you and her ex up in her mind. You may even find others are mixed in there too. Perhaps even herself.
It's been theorised with some good research that the acting out behaviours are a reflection of or a re-enactment of the trauma they went through that caused the core wound. I have found that to be very true with at least 3 people I have been close to casting me into the exact role of their wounding mothers then re-enacting their childhood trauma using me as the scapegoat. it was uncanny. i intuitively felt that during abusive moments I could actually SEE that they weren't seeing me.


You and other's have mentioned the ex's...mine spoke CONSTANTLY about what she called her NPD abusive ex. It was the main topic of conversation for much of our relationship, which in itself is abnormal and abusive. Yes, she had to interact with him because of their kid, but it was way too much. It was if she used me to make herself feel better, to get me to tell her how he's such a jerk and she's so great. Which I did all the time. She seemed to really want me to know and believe that he's an NPD abuser, it seemed so important to her. Which got me to thinking...

I have seen her anger, I have borne the brunt of her yelling and name calling. I have experienced her evasiveness and half-answers designed to not reveal the truth about what she's planning or doing or thinking, designed to be defendable but not fully truthful if you know what I mean. I have received the gaslighting and changing the facts about what 'happened' or 'was said'. I have seen her completely change stories and explanations when I ask about something.

I'm a calm guy, I'd never yell or call her names, but someone else very well might lose it at this behavior. I can easily imagine him getting extremely angry about that kind of treatment. And, get this. If you haven't read my whole story, she told me about an ex-boyfriend who killed himself over her- he actually blamed himself in the suicide note. Just like I said above, I have suffered the pain of her attacks and gaslighting...and it nearly drove me crazy with depression and fear and anxiety. One night about 5 weeks ago I actually was thinking to myself if there is a shoulder lane on a large bridge around where I live, if you can believe that. So I can imagine the suffering of her ex-boyfriend. I feel so sorry for him, and I don't really believe that her ex-husband is a malignant narcissist.
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daze507
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« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2020, 04:45:54 PM »

Honestly Jaded, if I can you an advice, just let it go. It is what it is and you will gain nothing by torturing yourself like that.
I have blocked mine on the last social we were connected today, it's symbolic because she will most likely not notice (and I don't really care at this point) but damn... I feel liberated.
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jaded7
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« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2020, 05:02:46 PM »

Honestly Jaded, if I can you an advice, just let it go. It is what it is and you will gain nothing by torturing yourself like that.
I have blocked mine on the last social we were connected today, it's symbolic because she will most likely not notice (and I don't really care at this point) but damn... I feel liberated.

I know. It's just the ruminating thoughts and missing her and wishing things were different, especially now that I understand bpd.

Good job of blocking her on social media. I am nowhere near able to do that. A friend last night offered to remove her from my contacts and I panicked and tears came to my eyes.

Thanks for your sharing here, it helps me to understand that things can get better and maybe I'm not a horrible person.
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daze507
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« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2020, 05:16:41 PM »

Arg... You're still in the very early stage then.
Nothing horrible with you, it's ALL in your head. At some point you will have to block/delete everything about her, it will have accepted and can start healing.
Yes, it definitely gets better and the less ypu think about it the faster it will.
We don't want to suffer like that for somebody who doesn't given damn, it's not fair for us ans we deserve better.
Amd remember, we were involved with very sick people, don't try to rationalize their behaviour, it's pointless.
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Cromwell
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« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2020, 06:02:14 PM »

I'd like to continue with what daze suggests about not thinking about it. I found symptoms of going no contact for the first 2 months to be akin to some sort of drug withdrawl. The relationship was addictive, there is a process of disengaging that can lead to depression and craving, altered moods and a mix of emotional states. I really had to learn how to get through that early phase, I'd say it took a year to feel able to get over the illness and fall outs, but in that time incrementally better. There are neuronal pathways that have been over excited. Stay in touch here and talk through stuff. Looking back I could have done well to have went for some anti anxiety meds or similar to quieten things down on these emotionally heightened days I got through it without them but it was unneccassry nightmare that could have had a smoother recovery.

Try not to allow this to take up too much of your time, keep busy do other things and rest also. If you have a bad day don't despair, it is just that, a bad day and not a sign of everything achieved so far being at vain. Sorry to write so much but I'm not here often and wanted to give some general advice that has worked for me. All the best.
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jaded7
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« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2020, 06:51:20 PM »

Cromwell and Dazed and others, thank you for your support and for taking the time to post here.

Yes, this is difficult. I feel a warm, almost caretaker, feeling for her. She seems to go through life so frightened and worried, and I'm a carefree and happy person. I literally spent hours and hours on the phone with her over the last 8-10 months listening to her talk about her (supposedly) narcissistic ex-husband, and I did it because it was a way to make her feel better, feel supported, feel heard. I liked to be able to do that for her.

But, if I think about the support she gave me over that time period, I can think of almost nothing. Many criticisms about me, my business, how I run my business. Many times she simply ghosted me for days or even a week by not responding to calls or texts, ignored my lunch invitations, very short-tempered. I sent her food multiple times for her and her son and she didn't acknowledge it with a thank you, tried my best to check on her and ask her what she needed when she was sick with a cold (she ignored me during those times especially..."my friends know what to do and don't need to ask"), but when I was stressed out and no time for dinner, she never offered to send me food, when I was sick she didn't ask what she could do for me.

It was all me giving, waiting for a response, reading texts and emails from her ex-husband and giving her uplifting and supportive feedback.

She came to my place precisely zero times since July 12. She invited me to her place precisely one time on the Monday before Thanksgving in that same time period- gave me 45 minutes notice to come build her son's new basketball hoop. I jumped to it. Of course, she hid from me what she was doing on Thanksgiving- and to this day I have no idea what she did. Certainly didn't invite me, after two years of dating and saying I love you.

Completely manipulated me to missing her son's ultimate frisbee matches. The day of the first one it was raining super hard, the weekend before she ghosted me and didn't respond to my texts and calls, and then when I asked why she wasn't communicating she IMMEDIATELY picked up the phone and yelled "YOU NEED THERAPY! This is YOU, not me!" She explained she could not communicate when her son was home on weekends (not true, always had, often invited me over). Goalpoast shifting. So the next weekend when the match was on, I didn't try to text or call her given the new goalpost from the last weekend (and the verbal/emotional abuse), so with the super hard rain I was trying to figure out if the match was on, searching all over the place online...couldn't find anything. I figured she'd at least let me know if it was on, or when they were leaving (I knew what time it was on), but I never heard a thing from her and didn't want to upset her by calling. At 5:00, when the match is ending, she sends a text "I thought you were coming". I told her that I didn't want to bug her by communicating when her son was home she says "text ok". Goalpost shift, it wasn't the weekend before. I tell her I thought she'd let me know if it was on and when they were leaving, she responds with a stern lecture on how she is busy enough managing her life and can't be managing mine as well. So infuriating.

She works from home alone during the day, used to spend every Wednesday and Monday afternoon with me at my place, hiking, getting coffee. When I asked her to meet me for coffee she responded "my work requires me to speak on the phone with clients. I can't do that in a coffee shop". When I asked her to lunch, she ignored the phone call and the text. For 30 hours, then acted like it never happened.

When I volunteered to usher at her son's theater show, she didn't communicate with me for 2 days before and the day of. I simply showed up looking around for someone. Couldn't even take the time to send a text. After the show I looked for her for 15 minutes, wandering around the theater. She didn't even try to find me, I found her in the back corner of the second floor checking her voice mail.

So disrespectful, so angry, so mean and critical and gaslighting. She told me for the last 6 months, the time period above, she was 'busy'. And would get insulted if I tried to ask her to do something. As if I was insulting her work or something, as if we didn't do things during the day all the time for a year. As if she didn't insult my business I started, as if she ever helped me with my business, or even offered, as if she ever came to events at my business to meet my friends. and clients- not once, told me 'No' when I asked her to.

In that time period when I asked her why she was ignoring my texts for up to a week, ignoring my phone calls ,when I told her it was hurtful, confusing and invalidating...that it was strange intermittent reinforcement because she would say "I love you" to me once a week or so, she responded with "I can acknowledge that". Then, quiet for few seconds, she proceeded to tell me that I don't do things that "she likes to call adulting (with hand quotes)...like read enough books (I read massive amounts online, can't be staying up late because of my business, read all the major newspapers online), I "eat sh*tty foods" and don't listen to podcasts. Then she started gaslighting about events, I corrected her multiple times, then asked her why she has to be so mean, what have I ever done to you? Then she stormed out of the deli.

So, so frustrating and confusing.
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daze507
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« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2020, 01:45:08 AM »

And you're supposed to be the horrible guy here? Right.
Not sure if you realise how ultra toxic if not senseless this relationship was. Don't take it personally, not judging, but maybe this could be a good opportunity to work on yourself because it seems to me that you are extremely codependent and are seeking a lot others' validation. Very few men would have done 1/10 the things you did with that woman.
You have a lot to gain from that breakup, no more toxicity and self-improvement, look at it the bright way.
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Cromwell
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« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2020, 07:30:52 PM »

I literally spent hours and hours on the phone with her over the last 8-10 months listening to her talk about her (supposedly) narcissistic ex-husband, and I did it because it was a way to make her feel better, feel supported, feel heard. I liked to be able to do that for her.

Yet you (now?) have your doubts about parts of her story being accurate about him?
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jaded7
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« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2020, 07:53:48 PM »

Yet you (now?) have your doubts about parts of her story being accurate about him?

Yes, I do now. Is that what you're saying?

I do remember now her being deliberately opaque on her plans for summer so that she could do that big trip to Europe without him finding out. So she asked him to rearrange the summer schedule with their son so she could do the trip- she just said he had some activities and camping. When her husband found out that she was in Europe with her son, he was really pissed at called her a liar. She took great offense at that, and that was one of the many emails or texts from him she ACTUALLY forwarded to me to read and support her on. She told me how unbelievable it was that he called her a liar and insisted she never lied to him.

I recall her son got a big part in a semi-professional production and she didn't want to tell him. Tons of back and forth with me about that.

I read many of his emails, and I saw a guy mostly frustrated with her behavior, he was never cruel or mean or, from what I could tell, narcissistic. She would always point out the parts that were characteristic of a narcissist and I couldn't really see it.

She told me so many stories of horrible things he did, but I have seen myself how she's able to change the facts of stories to make me look bad, or leave things out that would make me look better in a situation. Always blaming.

I noticed last fall that her communication with me- both in style and in frequency- reminded me of how she communicated with her ex-husband and I thought to myself "holy sh*t, she's treating me like her ex now. What have I done?"
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« Reply #31 on: March 15, 2020, 06:16:05 AM »

I noticed last fall that her communication with me- both in style and in frequency- reminded me of how she communicated with her ex-husband and I thought to myself "holy sh*t, she's treating me like her ex now. What have I done?"

Maybe a form of displacement where you became the safer outlet for her unresolved issues. Kind of like having a bad day at work with others, not being able to deal with it there and people go home and take the stress out on family members.

What id like to point out is that it is not for me to judge and say that it doesn't sound like much fun what you went through, being how it comes across an emotional swill bucket for her issues where you could have done other things, I went through part the same, it made me ask "you are wasting quality time we could be having now" (asked myself) not her.

But if we state that we enjoy that sort of thing, taking on that role - it shows how the relationship worked, and complemented each side. It makes it difficult to complain about or consider being "used". It is hardly being used if it was acceptable or even enjoyable to want to be there in that role.

Healing and moving on for me has been accepting that I actually wanted more than I got, that I put up with stuff I shouldn't have just to appease. A sort of go along to get along. It kept the relationship going, but it wasn't really me, and it helped to experience it to maybe understand more about myself and what I expect in future.

I asked "now", with wondering if you ever truly believed her story from the start or if it is just being questioned now that it got to this point of being difficult to handle. Maybe parts of her story in those hours might have some point sounded too one-sided, or embellished, exaggerated even, if so - did you ever call her out, or ask for more specific details? Or did you just listen and accept the one sided story? If so, ask maybe why you did and was this a product of getting carried away in emotions and maybe neglecting the rational logical side which is less fuzzy warm inducing, more cold, business like.
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