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Author Topic: Protection order: last option or is there a better way?  (Read 458 times)
RolandOfEld
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« on: March 16, 2020, 10:35:25 PM »

Dear all, I am weighing the very grave decision between getting a protection order against my BPDw and letting things go on as they are.

The reason I am considering a protection order is that every meditation attempt to separate over the last few years has either failed or, after being accepted and signed by both parties, been immediately ignored by her. The last version of the agreement stipulated I could sleep outside at a small room I rent near our shared apartment two nights a week and that most of Sunday would be my own time since I am in charge of 90% of the childcare for S7 and D4. It also said that we would not involve the children in any disagreements between the both of us. She could not manage any of these.

It has come to the point that I know if I try to leave the house, either to sleep outside or because an argument has become intolerable, she will physically restrict me from leaving. One such incident recently led to a physical altercation in public on a city street just because I did not want to talk and tried to go to work. (Afterward, I filed a domestic abuse report at our local hospital and discussed the situation with child services, so at least I made it useful).

I see now my freedom as a human being is an illusion. The worst part is how she involves the kids. Last week in response to my wanting to stay outside she locked me along with our two children outside the whole night. I had to take them to my tiny flat to sleep; she did not consider the lack of blankets, pajamas, diapers, any of this. She will use the kids to control me. 

If I don’t make any noise things go along mostly quietly, but every gesture at independence leads to an explosion. She can’t let go of me. Which is why I’m so nervous about the protection order. I think she might disregard it and attack me violently, or kill herself, or run away with the kids. If she cannot take me sleeping outside, what would she do if put into such a desperate situation?

Also mentioning I am a US citizen living in Asia, and while the laws are similar what works in the US legally might not apply here. I have a good lawyer and will see him later this month to go through all the details. So while what everyone could suggest legally might not relate here, I could really benefit from everyone’s experience here in terms of how BPD partners react to legal action. Thank you!
~Roland 
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ForeverDad
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2020, 10:25:17 AM »

Last week in response to my wanting to stay outside she locked me along with our two children outside the whole night. I had to take them to my tiny flat to sleep; she did not consider the lack of blankets, pajamas, diapers, any of this. She will use the kids to control me.

When you take action is likely a major factor.  Good that you had the incident logged for documentation.  But waiting a while, especially for a man, can reduce the impact for the legal system.  Perhaps the next time something like this occurs you can determine whether it is time to resort to making it legally actionable.  Since you don't know when the next incident may occur, can you ask your lawyer what you can do the next time this happens?  (You know this will happen again eventually, sooner or later, so be prepared sooner.)

If you're a man, the court may want more than simply you "feeling unsafe or at risk".  What I'm saying is that you may not have to describe in great specificity how your spouse was waving around a kitchen knife or whatever.  Your experienced lawyer can tell you how things go in your local court.  There are some states where it's standard that a spouse can file for divorce and a TRO at the same time.

However, you do have to be consistent in every statement.  If you say you're in fear of whatever, then never say you're not in fear in such situations.  If your spouse gets a lawyer and you are questioned on the stand the lawyer's goal will be to get you to state sometimes you're not fearful and then he will turn to the judge and say, "Dismiss this case since this person is not fearful or whatever."  Cases are often dismissed on technicalities so don't trip yourself up.

If you do have incidents to reference, it's usually best that they be recent, not more than 6 months ago (over 6 months is viewed as 'stale' or not very actionable) unless you're trying to establish a pattern of abusive behavior.  Imagine calling emergency services and stating "Last week my spouse threatened to ____".  Would they rush out officers?  It may eventually get investigated but perhaps the person would reply, "Please call emergency services again when it's an emergency."
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livednlearned
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2020, 11:05:39 AM »

I am considering a protection order

Where I live, there are different levels of protective orders and both parties can make adjustments to the language.

Is there a domestic violence organization in the area that you can consult with? If so, there may be an advocate there who can tell you what to expect for your area. Another option is to discuss with a clerk of court what happens with POs if they are part of the legal system where you live.

Gavin de Becker, who wrote Gift of Fear, has a chapter in his book about protective orders and what they do when there is a disordered person involved. It sounds like you want the PO so that you can enforce things with law enforcement?
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RolandOfEld
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« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2020, 02:18:50 AM »

ForeverDad   thank you so much for your sharing and good point about the waiting. My lawyer has instructed me to do what I did last time there was an incident of violence, to quickly make a domestic abuse report at the hospital; he said if you have two logged incidents it would be very little challenge to get the order, followed by quick divorce and custody.

livednlearned after I reported the above incident the hospital immediately sent a social worker to discuss with me, who then connected me to child services, who I've been in touch with since. Their stance is the same as my lawyer's. I'll look into the book, thank you!

For an update, it occurred to me yesterday that since she's now reached the point of locking me out with the kids, why not just find a place big enough for me and the kids, move out, and have her pay the rent in the original if she wants to stay? I have no legal obligation to live there. And it would make any legal action  I take afterward - such as a PO- much easier and safer if we're not in the same residence. That way at least she's being barred from visiting a new residence rather than kicked out of her own. Might decrease the level of explosion and danger, especially if we've already been living separately for a while.

Thoughts?

~Roland
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GaGrl
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« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2020, 08:50:21 AM »

Roland, I like your thinking here. A place large enough for you and the children establishes a safe place and clearly delineates your private space in terms of any trespass on her part.
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"...what's past is prologue; what to come,
In yours and my discharge."
livednlearned
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« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2020, 08:54:07 AM »

I agree about moving if that reduces exposure to abuse for you and the kids.

Have you documented her kicking you out with the kids? You want to be able to say, Hey she locked us out. Versus her saying you took the kids without her permission.

It's not uncommon for emotionally volatile people to not remember what was happening at the point of high emotion. As she comes down to baseline, she may wonder why the kids aren't there and why have you taken them.

I re-read my court case from 10 years ago and the deposition with my ex was fascinating to look over now that my own emotions are much diminished (compared to then).

When asked about his rages, in which he was psychotic and terrifying, he simply said he was working through his feelings, which were justified because of something someone else did or said.

It helps, then, to think of what your ex may think given what could be a total inability to see cause and effect on her part. Cause = her locking you out. Effect = you moving out with the kids.

She only sees the effect.

The cause is irrelevant to her, and/or to shameful or emotional to process as something she is responsible for.




« Last Edit: March 19, 2020, 08:59:18 AM by livednlearned » Logged

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ForeverDad
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2020, 10:55:23 AM »

It occurred to me yesterday that since she's now reached the point of locking me out with the kids, why not just find a place big enough for me and the kids, move out, and have her pay the rent in the original if she wants to stay? I have no legal obligation to live there. And it would make any legal action  I take afterward - such as a PO- much easier and safer if we're not in the same residence. That way at least she's being barred from visiting a new residence rather than kicked out of her own. Might decrease the level of explosion and danger, especially if we've already been living separately for a while.

That is excellent planning strategy... proactive... practical... thoughtful.
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RolandOfEld
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« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2020, 01:38:11 AM »

First off, sending my prayers out to everyone during this crisis, especially for those of you who have to shelter with a disordered partner.

FD and GG thank you for your supportive words.

LnL I took video of us locked out yes but since she doesn't appear in it not sure how strong as evidence it would be. I had also called the police but they claimed they weren't able to help in any way and I should just get a locksmith.

Your insights about how she might think are extremely illuminating. It doesn't seem as though she has a clear sense of what she did, and she will definitely not connect her behaviors to me moving out. This will have a big impact on my communication strategy to her.

The last few explosions - as crippling as they were - have served to give me a lot of data to work with in terms of anticipating what she would do and coming up with counter strategies for each behavior. I've drawn up a quick list below and am assembling my task force (counselors, friends, lawyer, police):

Lock me out with children
take kids to new apartment, instruct guard not to let wife in
Get home helper, or get friends on rotation until helper found

Prevent me from seeing children
take to court

Calls police, makes false criminal claims, e.g kidnapped children
tell police in advance, let her put herself on public record

Physical attack or restraint
call police, file domestic abuse report, apply for protection order
Get witness statements if in public

Confrontation at office
brief colleagues, have one ready to call police if she accosts me

Threatening of suicide
pass to her friends / sister who I have notified of situation

Stealing / destruction of personal belongings
move all important belongings to new house in advance
Call police, file report

Defaming  me on social media
take pics, save as evidence, block her on all social profiles

Suing me in court, false claims of abuse, affair, neglect
go to court, let her put herself on public record

~Roland
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livednlearned
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« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2020, 08:49:37 AM »

Documenting that she's kicked you out can also include email correspondence, not just video. Looking back, most of my case hinged on things my ex documented through texts and emails. Documenting also includes the actions you took and the third-party professionals you met with. I recommend creating a timeline of events. I'm not sure if you can still do this, but ten years ago I was able to pin emails to specific dates in Google calendar. Then, I printed everything out in agenda view and had a chronological system laid out for people trying to understand my case. Our cases tend to be on the high side of dramatic with lots of chaos and confusion, so anything you can do to help organize what's going on will help your team.

I did the same thing you plan to do -- I told my colleagues and human resources what was happening. My boss contacted higher ups and we closed the loop. I ended up with a different office with no sign on my door and a campus police officer gave me a protocol to follow if ex appeared on site. I also live in what's known here as a one-party consent state, allowing me to legally record without getting prior consent. So I turned on my phone's recording feature when I left the office to go to my car just in case ex made a surprise appearance.

I'm not sure how common it is there for kids to have therapists, but that might be something you tend to as well in your thoughtfully laid out plan. They are going to need to process the trauma to them -- and knowing how to help them tell a new story about their bravery and courage is important. I think my son's story he tells himself is that I am strong and he is weak. I wish I had understood this earlier. He is more passive than it benefits him to be as a man (he's now 18) and I can see how he equates our exit with my strength, not his. Even though he did have to be clever and strong.

Let us know how things go.

You'll get through this  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2020, 12:34:42 PM »

Roland,

My situation as a US citizen is similar to yours. My situation also happened in Asia. You will have zero rights as foreigner. Do not take legal action. She will split you black. I would advise something else. My bdpW tried to kill me by pushing my down the stairs. The police laugh. Please message me directly.

This based on my experience.
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RolandOfEld
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« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2020, 10:45:47 PM »

Thank you lnlWith affection (click to insert in post)
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Radcliff
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Fond memories, fella.


« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2020, 12:36:53 AM »

Hi Roland, old friend, it's been a while.  I'm sorry you're in a tough spot, but am glad that you're doing some planning and looking at ways you can take action.  I really liked the idea of you going to your other apartment with the kids when you get locked out.  Leveraging the momentum of what's happening, rather than leaving in a high conflict way sounds good if you can pull it off.  Definitely start slowly moving important and sentimental items to your new place.  You might find yourself in an interim period where you go to your new place with the kids for a few days, then come back if she's well regulated.  I'm not suggesting that as a long term solution, but a gradual easing away and establishment of a safe alternative could work better.  Also, document how many nights you spend in the new place, especially if it becomes a regular thing.  I think you've mentioned in the past that your partner has a limited capacity to manage with the kids, so having you and them gone sometimes may actually calm things down (so being gone with the kids reduces drama, rather than taking them suddenly with legal action).

Take care,
RC

p.s., you said your other place is small.  Perhaps make it an adventure.  Buy some lumber and raise the bed to create a fort underneath.  Pretend you're in a submarine or a magic cave.  Get an aerobics video and wear them out with it as the three of you do aerobics together.
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