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Author Topic: Mom's 5 Acres Up For Auction Part 2  (Read 558 times)
Turkish
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« on: January 27, 2020, 09:17:36 PM »

Mod Note:  Part 1 of this thread is here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=342402.0

The registered letter I picked up today is the same as the unregistered one I received over a week ago.  

The redemption to bring taxes up to date is ~$11,500. I have until the middle of March to redeem, two days after my mom's 78th birthday, interestingly.  It will go up for auction starting at $13,100. Looking at Zillow listings for that area, it might be worth up to $100k, comparing to unimproved properties (lots). I might have to rethink this one... Maybe pay a real estate lawyer for a consult.

The verbiage also says that I am entitled to file for compensation of the amount it sells for above the taxes owed. Then again, I might be back to worrying about Medi-cal since I stated that she had no assets.  
« Last Edit: January 29, 2020, 09:20:12 AM by Harri » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2020, 06:18:13 AM »

 
What are yearly carrying costs?

You would want to have an insurance policy with some liability on it.  I think I pay $300 and change for one that covers land and some modest buildings.  There is also coverage for the buildings, but all of them are obsolete, so my purpose was having liability in place.

Yearly taxes?

Is the land huntable? 

Are people putting land in conservation easements around there?  (some of these are surprisingly lucrative)

Best,

FF
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« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2020, 07:42:48 AM »



Turkish

A way to do a quick eval and uncover common problems (that you can point a real estate lawyer to) is to sketch out what you know about the history of the property.  I would encourage you to do this before checking court/tax records.

Then start with tax records.  Hopefully they are online.  The tax page will like reference a deed book and page. 

If you have great tax records, you may find a history of transfers going back a while (that's gold if you have it)
"
Then actually go back to the court records (hopefully online) and put in all the deed book and pages.  Pay attention that the names match, dates match (or not).  Hopefully they will have a "legal description" at the end.  Read all of those since most of those reference a previous deed. 

You are looking for "holes" in the references.  Something tax records missed.  Let's say you are back three deeds and the legal description there references a deed that isn't in the tax records.  That's something to pay attention to and understand.

You want to make sure no prior deeds can still lay "claim".

As far as how to get it out of the name it current is in and potentially get it into your name (or an entity you control), that's where it can get tricky.  I would be asking the L if there is a way that conveys "any and all" interests in the property to you.  A simple quit claim may be sufficient.

Even if she currently isn't the owner, the law may support that quit claim transferring it to you many years in the future.

Would she sign a quit claim now?  Of course with a notary.

Then also ask how the law views recording the quit claim.  Do you have to record it right away or if you record it years in the future, is that ok?

Basically, before you transfer title out, the title would have to be straightened out and brought up to "insurable standards".  If you have a valid, yet unrecorded quit claim...that should prove enormously helpful.

I once had to wait a long time to finalize purchase of a property (in fact the one I'm currently doing an eviction on at the moment) for the court system to declare someone dead, that had likely been dead for over 30 years, before I could get clear insurable title. 

Basically the property had been bounced around the family for 50-60 years with sporadic recording of transfers at the courthouse.  That increased my legal fees by about $1000 or so.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2020, 07:50:16 AM »



Figured I would type some about my "emotional reasoning" for Turkish to do this.  There is obviously a financial reality to it, but I getting a vibe that over half of the "reasoning" or "thought" is about emotional cost.

Also..please...not casting any shade or criticism on those that chose to "let go".

You know how you feel now, you don't know how you will feel later.   Letting go now is permanent (unless you track down items and re-buy...but for sake of this discussion..permanent)

Let's say Turkish is wrapping up his Mom's estate years in the future and then begins to "process" those emotions/memories.

How would he feel then about selling the property and having a chunk of that be part of a dream property in Idaho. 

What if he decided to donate the property to a cause of his choice and take a big tax write off (perhaps same year he cashed out some other things)

What if he decided he would get satisfaction cleaning up the mess on the property, knowing he would keep it and it would be "a mess no longer".

I could dream up several more, but at the core of it there is a preservation of options.

Heck, maybe he does a property exchange with someone in Idaho that wants to move.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2020, 05:53:29 PM »

Turkish, I understand now. You will be bidding on property where you will be the brand new owner if you win the auction (cheap price for the land) and pay the delinquent taxes. Property taxes will be for your purchase price, I hope. Ownership has fallen out of the hands of your late step dad and possible heirs due to 7 years of non payment of prop taxes. In my county it’s 10 years of delinquency & then it goes to auction. I live in the heart of a major CA city where we never have public auctions.

I would definitely place a bid for it!  If it stirs up issues, sell it. Get something out of the misery your FOO caused. Don’t give it up for goodness sakes!

I would get homes built on it and sell those. That’s what happens in the suburbs of my city with the small amount of spare land that’s left, just like in Silicon Valley.   Don’t know if demand is there in that rural county. Maybe in 5-10 years?

In my unprofessional opinion, it shouldn’t affect your mom’s eligibility for Medicare/Medicaid. Call the county tax assessor to be sure. The assessor’s office in my county was extremely helpful.

However, leave mom out completely of the mold remediation or tear down costs. That’s a very bad idea- it will look like she has funds.

Good luck & hope you win the auction!
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« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2020, 07:01:32 PM »


"Redemption" appears to be how you "save" the property from going to auction.  I don't live in Turkish's state, but that's a similar term we use.

If it goes to auction, then you need to know what kind of auction it is.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2020, 08:24:24 PM »

If this is right of “redemption” for a property, my first message stands.  Some auditor in Sacramento will discover this. 

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« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2020, 09:25:38 PM »

If this is right of “redemption” for a property, my first message stands.  Some auditor in Sacramento will discover this. 

It's Amador. Yeah, why cause trouble and legal problems? I'm doing well in the silicon valley at the moment and will pay off my home in about 8 years. I don't have much cash above my 3-6 months safety liquidity to make a bid and am hesitant to sell stock in order to do so. 

My old boss knows a sharp real estate person and he'll run it by her this weekend. She might be able to refer a good estate attorney which would be preferable to searching on avvo.

I think what I will do is catch up the other 2 acres in the meantime and pay on it.  Due to Prop 13, the taxes have a mid 70s baseline so they aren't much. 

My mom thought about transferring the title into my name almost 20 years ago, but then said that she heard about kids evicting their elderly parents due to greed. Of course she told me that rather than keeping it to herself. Thanks mom. 
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« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2020, 06:17:21 AM »

what are the yearly carrying costs?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2020, 09:54:18 AM »

It's Amador. Yeah, why cause trouble and legal problems?  

Umm, if I'm doing the math right.  There could be about 80,000 reasons...$$

That's not counting on appreciation.

My guess is you are better off to control the property now, leave deeds alone and clean all this up several years after your Mom passes away.

Again..rough back of the envelope math, but after 10 years the redemption is about 10 grand, then the financial question to ask yourself is...Do I have a grand a year that I can "invest" to control this property, hoping that in the future I can sell it for $xx.

When you look at "the balance" of your savings how much is in real estate and how much is in stocks.

Of course, each of these scenarios should be run by an L for a sanity check.

Basically two

1.  I pay taxes and save this property and want to sell it this year (or soon).

2.  I pay taxes and save this property and then want to sell it several years after Mom passes.


Best,

FF
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« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2020, 01:02:02 AM »

#2 is my thought.  My stock kind of recovered from the virus scare. I could sell some and have $40k in cash, say, to bid. Yet I get almost 3% dividends quarterly, and the stock is my new car fund I've been saving for years, currently driving an 11 year old car.

I also hate my current job and am looking.  I'm fiscally conservative, "cheap" my ex says, yet I pay CS and there's no one to rescue me so I fall on being conservative and not taking risks while the kids are minors. No "your house is your bank!" Stupidity like my ex told me a few years ago.
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« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2020, 06:44:05 AM »

#2 is my thought.  My stock kind of recovered from the virus scare. I could sell some and have $40k in cash, say, to bid. Yet I get almost 3% dividends quarterly, and the stock is my new car fund I've been saving for years, currently driving an 11 year old car.

I also hate my current job and am looking.  I'm fiscally conservative, "cheap" my ex says, yet I pay CS and there's no one to rescue me so I fall on being conservative and not taking risks while the kids are minors. No "your house is your bank!" Stupidity like my ex told me a few years ago.

OK, are you considering bidding on the property (like the rest of the public) or are you considering "catching up the taxes" and preventing the rest of the public from taking a chance on getting the property?

Trying to think through why it make makes sense to bid and expose yourself to being outbid, when it appears you have a "firm take it or leave it bid" in hand that gains you control of the property.

Either way, you would have some legal work to get a clean title to sell.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2020, 12:05:03 AM »

I made one last visit on Saturday, taking a lot of pictures. My buddy drove down from Washington to California for his oatmeal reasons. I asked him to come with me. We met the first day of high school. 

After visiting the property, he understood.  Though the smell wasn't overwhelming (no mom chain smoking or animals crapping inside), I donned my respirator after I saw all of the black mold on the ceilings. Then I documented. I will post a link when I upload pictures. She was a Level 4-5 Hoarder. I found a tiny album in my old room with some of my baby pictures, a couple I had never seen. I took that.  There was no floor.  I walked over detritus. Outside windows were broken.  It was surprisingly dry inside.

I researched cleaning up border homes.  $1k/day for labor. In that county, the dump was always expensive. I estimate $30k minimum.  Even if I were 20 years younger, the task would be Herculean, even with help. And add California permits $$$. The house is lost. The foundation, on piers, needed fixing in 1989.

My buddy at work talked through the numbers, and he underesitmates the cost of clean up. In the end, he said, "say you can net $30k. You make or lose that in a single day in your 401(k)" and that's true. 

It might take me a few days, but I'll post a link to pictures and I hope it might help children of hoarders make decisions. I can't right now... I wept a little looking at the pics last night,  and I wish I'd taken my DSLR rather than snapping pics on my phone.

Home in a suburb of Sacramento to a short sale in 1983. Current Zillow value: $339k. 25 acres on Bootstrap Way (a road she named) lost in 1984 in foreclosure? With riverfront? $700k or more? The cops and the county chased us off of that and she lost it in foreclosure on a $15k note at the time. My mom told me how much years later. What a waste. She got over her depression and saved up $15k in cash to put down on her last property.

I have lots of memories, both good and bad on the 25 acres. Splitting wood with an 8 lb maul at 12, a skinny boy, and bucking wood as a logger, getting poison oak, but making us money.  Hauling water from the river in gallon jugs a mile walk down the canyon... Then back.

She always cast herself as the victim, hence "pulling herself up by her bootstraps," yet she created the situations from which she was a victim. She received validation from being a victim.
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« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2020, 12:27:23 AM »

 Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

I am sorry Turkish.  So much of what happened is so unnecessary.

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« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2020, 06:58:38 AM »


I also am sorry this happened. 

How much could be burned (or are burning permits allowed).

I've done lots of house cleanup (hoarder stuff like this).

I bet if you bought a dump trailer (can you pull a big trailer) that would make things easier.

You've got land to leave trailer on.

For me it would be fun to rent/borrow a backhoe/trackhoe  and knock all that stuff down. 

Probably would cost 1/3 of what a contractor would charge and then you would own a dump trailer at the end. 

Back when I lived on farm and was more active in real estate I had a 7x14 dump trailer that had ramps you could pull out and I would drive my skid steer up in it.  A skidder with hydraulics on the arm could make quick work of a place like that.

Very likely you could buy those, use them and then sell them for what you paid for them (instead of renting).  This takes time but you are not in a rush.

Best,

FF


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« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2020, 11:55:06 PM »

Ruminating today, forgive me...

I was talking with a buddy at work. He had an uBPDx and a father who died young due to alcoholism.  He gets it. 

I remembered that my mom told the cops that I turned off her water. What I did was buy me and my BFF from another mother work suits so we could crawl under her collapsing house. Her plumbing was shot and she had no water. So we bypassed the house plumbing and ran a line of PECS from the city water inlet under the house to an outside spigot so she could run a hose to feed her menagerie of chickens (bobcat, mountain lion and racoon food), her nasty geese... oh how I hate geese... and dogs. I didn't ask where she went to the bathroom. I suppose it was in the woods with the bears like we did in the mid 80s on the 25 acres. That was 11 years ago. Yet she told that cops I cut off her water on purpose, a crime.

Maybe some of my desire to save the property is related to me rescuing her, even though it wouldn't benefit her. I know that she wanted to leave me something, and part of that was to feel her own self value. I wish I could tell her that it's ok and I don't need that.  That's me again, feeling as if I need to rescue her

I can't stand selfish, self absorbed stupid people, yet I feel uncomfortable feeling like I might be one of those people. 

All in all, I feel like rescuing this property is for her, not me.
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« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2020, 01:28:58 PM »

Hi Turkish.   Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

Excerpt
Maybe some of my desire to save the property is related to me rescuing her, even though it wouldn't benefit her. I know that she wanted to leave me something, and part of that was to feel her own self value. I wish I could tell her that it's ok and I don't need that.  That's me again, feeling as if I need to rescue her
It could be related to a desire to save her.  I am sure you still care about her and of course you wish you could rescue her.  She's your mom.  The thing is, buying the property and doing all the work that entails will not rescue her.   Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

Excerpt
I can't stand selfish, self absorbed stupid people, yet I feel uncomfortable feeling like I might be one of those people.
Wow.  That is some pretty harsh self judgement there.  Can you talk more about this?  Do you want to?  Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)   Can you share your train of thought or feelings?  Again, do you want to?

Excerpt
All in all, I feel like rescuing this property is for her, not me.
Do you feel confident in this assessment?  If you did buy the property, would it relieve what you described in your initial post?

 Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2020, 05:40:18 PM »

Turkish, something occurred to me...if you recovered the property, could you allow the local fire department to do a controlled burn on the house for one of their training purposes?

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« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2020, 09:33:55 PM »

Hi Turkish,

With the legal variables involved —Medi-Cal paying for mom’s care and your stepdad being the last owner of record— pay a real estate attorney to let you know if paying the tax lien would kick mom off Medi-Cal.

If this were me, that would be my biggest concern. Choose someone in good standing with the CA Bar Association.

Property is so expensive in Northern California. A whole cottage industry of real estate coaches (scammers) promise results with fees cheaper than an attorney’s. Am sure you’ve heard & seen their ads on radio & TV.  It’s inescapable.

Good luck & hope it all goes well!

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« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2020, 10:54:21 PM »

Turkish, something occurred to me...if you recovered the property, could you allow the local fire department to do a controlled burn on the house for one of their training purposes?



That's been a thought for years. Then things would need to be cleaned up, including the construction office trailer which is mostly metal.
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« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2020, 12:07:46 AM »

Still...would be a lot easier than trying to do the entire clean-up be yourself. And it would benefit others.
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« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2020, 06:41:01 PM »


What did you ever do about this property issue? 

Best,

FF
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« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2020, 10:38:42 PM »

It's gone. Even with the stay in place order, real estate transactions are legitimate business, so I could have driven the 100 miles. I needed to show up in person with a cashier's check.

We're ok for now at work, off 2 weeks to work from home, this week I'm in the lab, then off for a week (or 2?). There's no talk of layoffs yet, but I need money in the bank just in case, so no wasting money on something I can little deal with from 115 miles away in normal times. I have 5x the equity as that 5 acres would yield in the best of circimstances in my tiny bay area home that is laughable to the rest of the country. I'm taking care of my den and my pups. Going full Dave Ramsey, I'd be ok for a year without tapping into my 401(k), so I'm planning for the worst at this point. I still need to pay child support also. 
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