Well she kept this job 8 months

[PeaceMom]

DD20 who recently moved out into her first apartment and had 2 jobs, just got fired for insubordination today —Not bc of covid but for pure disrespect!  This was her full time day care position.

Her behavior was pure classic textbook BPD. Inability to follow directions she disagreed with, inability to communicate in an effective manner, inability to be assertive without being very rude, inability to accept any part in the wrong doing. Of course, I’m only hearing her side, but none of what she describes is the way someone desperate for work/paycheck would respond to keep a job. She texted first then called to unload all the ways she was wronged. I listened and said “ugh that’s tough, I’m so sorry”
Then she says she might need a lawyer about something that happened when she went to ex-BF’s apartment drunk...
I said well there are legal services for those who make below a certain income level, but I’m not going to be able to listen to this anymore, I’m sorry. And she hung up on me. I’m willing to bet this population hangs up on people more than any other group in the world.
So, nos the reality hits-she’s have no work reference to show potential employers, she won’t be able to pay rent, she won’t have a healthy daily schedule. I’ve said this here before, but these young adults don’t magically get DBT coping skills thru osmosis or even just living life. It’s puzzling to imagine this cycle repeating itself over and over again all through her life. It’s not like a lightbulb is gonna go on in her head and fill her with deep insight and wisdom of how to make deep profound changes.

Would love any thoughts from you.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[wavewatcher]

PM,
I'm so sorry you are back at square one with your dd. It is so frustrating, I know. Just when we have hope for them and get used to having peace and a calm environment they self-sabotage and want to return to a less scary environment. Do you think she'll be expecting to live with you? 

[Swimmy55]

I am sorry Peacemom,
I feel your pain.  The only thing I can say is you are definitely not alone. Good for you for establishing boundaries.
I won't hijack your post with the latest on my son who just contacted me.  I'll post about that separately after I process. 
Anyway, the worry never ends for us here with our BPD adult kids.  It is so painful to see them self sabotage and crash, just when we dare to think maybe this time will be different. I know you are bitterly disappointed and worried for her.  Yes, their inability for them to learn from past mistakes is terrible...{{SIGH}}.  I will write more later , just wanted you to know I / we are here with you.

[PeaceMom]

 I appreciate the thoughts here, friends. She was able to rent the apartment in her own name for 6 months. This might be the 10th job she’s lost (yes, 10th! Nuts, I know), but somehow she always manages to get hired. Honestly, it’s bizarre that she can be so convincing in an interview and somehow avoid sharing that she’s lost so many jobs (maybe lying?)

I feel at my core that helping her with rent after she’s fired for insubordination takes away her natural consequences and is probably enabling. . However, having her gone this last month (for the first time since we adopted her) feels like I’m on vacation every single day. I feel healthy, relaxed and joyful (even during pandemic).

I suppose if I was still in parenting/ teaching mode I’d do the tough love approach “we can’t help you w/rent bc you lost this job due to disrespect/ not following rules, these were within your control or at least in your control to seek counseling. We agreed only to help if you were working FT and being responsible w/money, but coming up a bit short”. I’m tired of parenting/ teaching/ guiding only to be ignored, dismissed and hung up on. I feel like I’m casting pearls among swine. I guess I’ll choose my health/joy and enable her to live away.

[PeaceMom]

WW,
She loves being in her own apartment. She would not want to return home. So this part is good!  I have zero enmeshment with her so I’m not missing anything about her being gone. This may sound harsh, but it’s true and I need to be honest about that. Ours was a total one way relationship -me giving, doing, supporting, providing and her taking and verbally abusing us most of the time.
I hope someday we can have a real relationship but I’m not holding my breath.

[cerulean sky]

My daughter is 39 with 3 kids - 2 different fathers.  Life of losing jobs, unhealthy relationships, crazy spending, never has money, asks me for money, mood swings, idealizing then vilifying me.  39 years of feeling like I am walking in a field of landmines with her - I never know what will set her off.  Now, with the shelter in place directive (and I am furloughed from my job during this event), I am realizing (again) how BPD has hurt the family: my non BPD son of 41 (who is divorcing a woman with BPD) , my 4 granddaughters.  We are not connected in healthy ways and when a crisis happens, we run to our corners and don't come together in support. 

[PeaceMom]

Cerulean sky,
I like your name. Sounds like you’ve had many years in a relationship w/one so emotionally dysregulated.  My DD20 hasn’t lived with us for 1 month so I’m getting a break from the daily crises. I feel fortunate to have this support group as an outlet. It has been very therapeutic for me to share from the heart with no fear of receiving judgement or condemnation.

[wendydarling]

Hi Peace

I hear your disappointment DD was doing so well 8 months is a huge achievement for her and she loves living independently is working for you both. She is motivated, right?

There is a fine divide between supporting and enabling. As you know my DD reached crisis at 26 (2015) gave up work end 2016 to get well. Professional advice is for them to stay in college, work unless hospitalised. I understand that. But my DD was effectively hospitalised at home for two years. I've watched these last years my DD build her resilience through hard work that she'd not be able to put in if she was working. That is the truth. If I had suggested it time she go back to work, I truly believe she'd have regressed quickly. I feel as though I've not followed some of the advice out there and I've so often questioned myself long and hard, am I making the right choices for us ... I can say, yes I have made the right choices.

Go with your gut feeling Peace and if it is to support paying her rent at this point so she can get back on her feet to work and you have your peace at home to continue your recovery, know it is ok to do just that. 

WDx

[PeaceMom]

Hi WDx, I’m so glad to see you again! I’m always moved by your compassion for your DD. You’ve shown patience with the process, as well.

Things move fast, furious and fiery w/my DD20 so most of my responses are reactive. There is no way to plan ahead/cope ahead for the things that happen and cause her such huge problems that then spill over onto us. She’s now contacted an attorney to try to bring some charge against her exBF. This, on the afternoon that she was fired. All during a world wide pandemic! I get up every morning having to radically accept that something crazy has happened in her world.

Thank you so much for reminding me that you chose to go against advice and allow your DD to heal at home with your financial support. I’m sure I’ll allow DD20 to stay in her apartment the rest of her lease if at all possible financially.

[livednlearned]

I'm growing to not like the word enabling for our circumstances 

Paying rent for the rest of her life might be enabling, but giving her money to live independently for the time being buys you some peace and protects her from worst circumstances if you kicked her out. It's a sanity move.

I read this the other day: Tiny little 1% changes and improvements applied consistently over time that compound exponentially leading to massive change and long lasting results.

You made a big 10% change when you offered to pay rent when she moved out, and there will be many smaller ones for you and her as she adjusts to adult life. Some of her behavior is age appropriate, altho obviously BPD makes things much worse. I don't see enabling, I see problem solving.

You chose to not hear a massive vent about circumstances she brought upon herself which takes strength. Her response (hanging up) is a sign that her approach (venting) was met with resistance, which suggests she got the message, even if she didn't respond the way you had hoped she would.

She may have lost 10 jobs, but she is resourceful if she continues to find her way in. There will always be employers who want warm bodies and hopefully over time she will be stable enough to set in motion a better fit for herself.

She isn't nailing 20 by any means. Even so, life is now her teacher and you are still someone she turns to for support. The abusive piece may diminish over time with the 1 percent changes. I would keep score of the number of times she hangs up on you and use it as a gauge that you are staying grounded in this storm

[PeaceMom]

LNL,
I appreciate the different light you are shining on my situation. It’s so obvious to me that I’m still operating like I’m the mom of a fairly competent, neurotypical kid. Well, I’m not -so different parenting strategies are at play. LNL, can you please write a book? Ha!
I’m such a rule follower and have always made up that if I follow a basic cookie cutter formula for success (that formula being created by experts), then the odds are high for stability, independence and happiness for my kids. However, there is no formula for parenting these kids.
I’d like to start thinking of small scale, 1% changes and how these baby steps can get us on an entirely new trajectory.
Thanks again for putting a spin on this that makes sense to me.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[livednlearned]

I keep searching for those rules too 

Given how fast/furious DD20 is with crises, and how resistant she is to your advice, maybe a 1 percent change, slow and steady, is to come up with a new habit for yourself when she calls.

Like having a pillow handy to scream into (haha jk)

Do you respond right away when she calls or texts?

I find with SD23 that the tiny little changes I make do have a ripple effect, and it does take a long time to see positive effects. I'm less resentful than I used to be but I do still feel resentment. That's the goal I have these days, minimizing my resentment and reactivity. Focusing on those issues is how most of the changes have occurred with SD23. Apparently I am not good at controlling someone with BPD 

Usually by the time one thing changes another has popped up so my racquet is pretty much always up. That's a piece of radical acceptance with this illness I guess.

[PeaceMom]

I think doing all possible to avoid getting resentful is the very top priority. Now there’s a thought for T to incorporate. If I had a little reminder popping up asking the question: “ hold on a minute Peacemom, is what you are about to do or not do going to make you feel resentment toward DD? If so, what are your viable options moving forward? Slow down and decide carefully. Your choice must have zero possibility for resentment attached to it”.

I have told her that I generally can no longer answer phone when she calls (she’s usually driving and needs something or is raging/venting about a crisis) and that she needs to text first and give me a heads up. She’s not done that yet. She still calls everyday but now I don’t answer and text her back about 10 min later with “Hi there. What’s up?”

Yesterday, The crisis du jour was she  had lost her debit card... the day before she called to bash the former job manager. I explained that I refused to be a part of that conversation.

 I’m thinking about telling her that in order to work on our regular mom/daughter relationship, I will chat anytime she’s lonely but I can’t talk about legal type or abuse type issues anymore. There are professional for that.

LNL, I think you changed your dynamic with your DD recently. Your thoughtful plan paid off and set you up for future visits where you are the queen of your house lif and she is a welcome guest.

[DisheartenedGuy]

You know, how this board really helps me...is that when so many different people keep poating my story, the same things my BPD gf does, and i see my story over and over, it changes my perspective. Instead of thinking "this is a unique problem that a woman I love has, and I want to help her," instead Im like a guy learning for the first time that all zebras have stripes.  Its like i was raised in a field with only one zebra and 20.horses, and i tried to wipe the stripes off for years, and then i find a website with thousands of striped zebras, and suddenly it all clicks.  It cant be fixed.

I genuinely get spooked at how similar all the stories are. This job one was spot on to when she quit her job.  The only difference is she worked there 3 years, and got 4 coworkers fired along the way until they realized SHE was the problem. But all thw other stuff..sounds like her twin. Thank you for sharing.

[PeaceMom]

Disheartened,
I’ve been absolutely amazed at the similar stories. We’ve had parents share from all over the planet. I remember one mom from a remote area of South Africa whose DD sounded exactly like mine. I like your description of 1 zebra and many horses. Actually out of 100 horse-types, 6 will be BPD zebras. And on this website, it’s all zebras!  Another fascinating piece for me is that every emotion my DD experiences is completely normal except for the magnitude, the time period and the slow return to baseline so she not a Martian, she’s more like a grape with no skin on.
I’m glad you are getting a lot out of this terrific website. I am too.

[wendydarling]

How's it going Peacemom?

[PeaceMom]

Hi Wendy and all,
DD ended up being furloughed from her second job, too. But, she’s not dysregulating with the same intensity as before. I reassured her we would help her with rent during this period and she seemed relieved.
One thing that really helped me was watching the NEA/BPD video series. They released it during the lock down because the face to face Family Connection classes stopped. Each video teaches a short version of the class. For me, actually watching a trained teacher give examples of the skills carers need was HUGE. I realized that even though I’ve quit trying to guilt/shame DD into what I consider healthy behavior, I was still coming off invalidating. This is a very simplistic example: Yesterday I sent her a portion of money for rent. And then later texted “Were you able to pay your rent?” “yes” “ok, that’s great”. Then an hour later, from me.”hey, I think you forgot to thank me:)?” “thanks”.

Well, by simply putting the smiley face, it showed my intention was pure. In the past she would have ignored that or gotten mad. Instead, I got a thanks. So trivial, but new and different.

How are you and your DD?