Sometimes I feel like i'm the one with BPD -Happen to anyone else?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

 

Recently ended a 5 year off and on with a pwBPD.  I've known for most of the relationship this person had BPD, but I have off an on struggled with questions of whether I am the one who had the BPD.

I think this feeling and confusion is related to the projections as well as my enmeshment with this person.  While my logical brain is certain about the fact that she has BPD, I still find myself allowing the horrible things this person said to and about me to effect how I think about myself.

In the relationship there was a lot of invalidation of my feelings and concerns.  There was also many times when we'd talk and she would simply erupt and then quickly shut down the conversation.. never to re-address the issue at hand.  Many other issues as well with some just absurd behavior, ie) Texting nakkid pictures to ex's and when I would call it out I was told it was her saying goodbye.   

That encounter I was simply left with the bizarre realization that she was going to hold to the obvious lie and make me seem like the crazy one for being upset.

I'm doing ok with the break-up and have read one of the most significantly meaningful pieces of advice to me on this board, "Detachment is ultimately about giving up Hope".  That is Gold.

Though i'm really struggling with letting go of feeling like I was the one with the BPD issues in the relationship.

   

[Attic]

 

Recently ended a 5 year off and on with a pwBPD.  I've known for most of the relationship this person had BPD, but I have off an on struggled with questions of whether I am the one who had the BPD.

I think this feeling and confusion is related to the projections as well as my enmeshment with this person.  While my logical brain is certain about the fact that she has BPD, I still find myself allowing the horrible things this person said to and about me to effect how I think about myself.

In the relationship there was a lot of invalidation of my feelings and concerns.  There was also many times when we'd talk and she would simply erupt and then quickly shut down the conversation.. never to re-address the issue at hand.  Many other issues as well with some just absurd behavior, ie) Texting nakkid pictures to ex's and when I would call it out I was told it was her saying goodbye.   

That encounter I was simply left with the bizarre realization that she was going to hold to the obvious lie and make me seem like the crazy one for being upset.

I'm doing ok with the break-up and have read one of the most significantly meaningful pieces of advice to me on this board, "Detachment is ultimately about giving up Hope".  That is Gold.

Though i'm really struggling with letting go of feeling like I was the one with the BPD issues in the relationship.

   

[alleyesonme]

Yes and no. How's your social life? And have you started dating anyone else since this relationship ended?

In my situation, for a variety of reasons, I've become very isolated from many of my friends and family. So my wife (who I'm 100% certain has BPD) is the only adult I interact with (other than people at work) on a regular basis. Sometimes I get so immersed in the accusations, lash-outs, complaints and criticisms that I begin to feel like she may be right and there may be something wrong with me. In those moments, I try to focus on looking back at all of my other relationships with romantic partners, friends and family members and compare them to what it's like with her. No one else in my life has acted anywhere close to how she does, and I haven't changed significantly. That's what helps me get back on track and realize again that she's the BP and not me.

[Cromwell]

Though i'm really struggling with letting go of feeling like I was the one with the BPD issues in the relationship.
  

Hi Attic,

The simplest way to find out is to go for an assessment.

I found myself going into sync with some BPD behaviour, it was part of being in any relationship - adopting a state of harmony. I also picked up on some of her mannerisms, habits and via-versa. But it would be a big leap to go from this to say that I have BPD. I have questioned that I may have it, but this I believe is more to do with ignorance of what BPD is itself as much as some of the dangers of self-diagnosing that people can do generally. Put some behaviour into "doctor google" and what maybe is just a sneeze from an allergy can turn into something else, that sort of thing.

I found alleyesonme's advice really helpful for when I went through this - reflect on past relationships you have had as much as reflect on existing ones. Give yourself time to transition from the relationship and maybe unmesh to find yourself again. If you have been shut down and invalidated and not felt safe in situations to be yourself, you have that opportunity back again now to re-assert to yourself who you are and express your thoughts. I went on an express-athon like never before, coming out of 3 years of having to feel subdued, it was necessary and helped.

[Rev]

Though i'm really struggling with letting go of feeling like I was the one with the BPD issues in the relationship.

   

Hi Attic,

You've got some really great advice here... and I want to add that your story sounds an awful lot of what I went through emotionally in the wake to my breakup.

If I stayed in my rational self (which sometimes meant staying cut off from my emotions) I was actually happy and relieved that the 5 years of turmoil and abuse were over.

But of course our emotions run through our thoughts faster than we can keep up with them. Given that BPD relationships can leave us as emotional wrecks (at least in my case that was true) it can take time to heal - and in this case time doesn't heal all wounds on its own. You need to do some of the things that people here are telling you to do. You've lived 5 years of dis-order. You've got to take time to re-order yourself - as in get your emotional self and your rational self working in good order.

I did CBT - and read books - and I come here. After about 10 months - I can feel things coming into sync finally.

God speed to you.  Hope you are safe in these very weird times of physical distancing.

Rev

[Attic]

Thank you.

I've decided to give myself a year of no pressure to heal and re-set.  Focusing on getting physically in shape and financially secure.


I have a few close friends and trusting and supporting listeners, which has been helpful.  Ultimately I still have to forge my own road ahead and i'm in pain fully letting go.  In letting go I feel i'm letting go of a part of myself, an unhealthy part, but a comfortable part.  So it's uncomfortable to let go.

I've made a decision to not date anyone for awhile until I have let go of this past relationship and I'm proud of that choice.  I don't want to jump into anything until i've gained some healthy ground emotionally and mentally so as not to hurt myself or others in the wake of this breakup.  My other relationships have been much less chaotic, except for a relationship 20 years ago with the same signs as this one (crazy making).

 It's disorienting, I expect this subsides in time and when I fully let go.

I have found reading others experiences is helpful and i'm going through https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality#1 one step a day.

I have anger at other BPD's who play the victim of their disorder, this is really frustrating to see when they say "Yea, we act like that because..." , "Rather than, we shouldn't act like that."

With Kindness: The Current CoronaVirus situation has in been helpful, forced self reflection and lack of pressure in other areas.

[Rev]

Thank you.

I've decided to give myself a year of no pressure to heal and re-set.  Focusing on getting physically in shape and financially secure.


I have a few close friends and trusting and supporting listeners, which has been helpful.  Ultimately I still have to forge my own road ahead and i'm in pain fully letting go.  In letting go I feel i'm letting go of a part of myself, an unhealthy part, but a comfortable part.  So it's uncomfortable to let go.

I've made a decision to not date anyone for awhile until I have let go of this past relationship and I'm proud of that choice.  I don't want to jump into anything until i've gained some healthy ground emotionally and mentally so as not to hurt myself or others in the wake of this breakup.  My other relationships have been much less chaotic, except for a relationship 20 years ago with the same signs as this one (crazy making).

 It's disorienting, I expect this subsides in time and when I fully let go.

I have found reading others experiences is helpful and i'm going through https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality#1 one step a day.

I have anger at other BPD's who play the victim of their disorder, this is really frustrating to see when they say "Yea, we act like that because..." , "Rather than, we shouldn't act like that."

With Kindness: The Current CoronaVirus situation has in been helpful, forced self reflection and lack of pressure in other areas.

I echo every single thing you say here, and even your recovery plan sounds an awful lot like mine...   And I so relate to the anger portion of that.

One of my most disliked expressions is "My truth" ….. I'm sure you get it.

Have a great day - whatever that looks like for you.

Stay in touch. I'll do the same.

Rev

[Attic]

Yes 

Thank you.

A very challenging experience. 

[once removed]

yes, i think it happens to a lot of us.

i think the most productive/important question is "i have these issues/challenges, what can i do about them"?

i also think that becomes easier the further along you are in the Detachment process. when your self esteem is crashing, that line between "im a failure as a human being, i ruined the relationship" and "there are things this failed relationship can teach me about myself that i can use in the future" is really blurry. a lot of us come here experiencing clinical depression and the cognitive distortions that can bring. theres a reason that self inventory is a latter stage of Detachment.

I try to focus on looking back at all of my other relationships with romantic partners, friends and family members and compare them to what it's like with her.

it was the most challenging relationship of my life, no doubt. i think finding a support group for a relationship, or healing from one, is probably a new thing to most of us.

but everyone is a great driver in an empty parking lot. challenge and adversity have a way of revealing us. think about all the posts here claiming "everyone thinks my partner is so great, they only see the good side of him/her, no one sees what i see". this is true, by and large, in any intimate relationship.

in my own case, many years out, i can see now that there was baggage, conflict style, certain tendencies, ways of coping, that at one time may have served me, but ultimately led me on a path that wasnt sustainable.

it served me really well to take a hard look at that. today i have better, more rewarding relationships of all kinds.

I think this feeling and confusion is related to the projections as well as my enmeshment with this person.  While my logical brain is certain about the fact that she has BPD, I still find myself allowing the horrible things this person said to and about me to effect how I think about myself.

this is something to think about. if me, or any other stranger, said those things to you, how would it effect how you think about yourself?

[Attic]

It's nice to re-read the responses.

I had a breakdown and reached out.  Told myself it was for one reason or another...  kids, money, stuff... my initial goal was different (NC), but I'm understanding for the relapse I had.

Very mentally and emotionally painful results.  Painted black (realized that happened before the breakup) and lots of projections that are obvious enough it made me hope she would acknowledge her behavior.  Very bizarre to see someone stand on their head, acknowledge they are, but then tell you that you are upside down.  It's like i'm counting using my fingers and trying to see if maybe she's right... anything to make sense of what's going on.

Beyond that I came to the realization I have core shame and that this creates a lot of pain and emotional fragility in me.  Realized this stems from my fathers parenting style more so than my moms.  Simply seeing this in me has helped me set healthy boundaries in relationships that have previously caused me distress.

I'm feeling stronger, but still very sad. The depth of emotion and hurt is still overwhelming at times. 

As I feel stronger I stop taking on a role of endless submission to her illness and start to simply accept it.  None of this changes how I feel about the person, but it does heal me and change how I feel about myself.

this is something to think about. if me, or any other stranger, said those things to you, how would it effect how you think about yourself?

I find that she is able to take minor faults of mine, amplify them based on her own awareness of my vulnerability in openly sharing my weak points, and to use this in order to hurt me.  My sister, also BPD, did the same thing.  Very painful. 

If a stranger did this to me, I would shrug it off.  I think the pain comes from being sabotaged by someone you trust, it's very painful.  It's possible it's painful, because the person behaving in the sabotaging way is showing you how much pain they are in (and you care about/love this person).

[Rev]

 

If a stranger did this to me, I would shrug it off.  I think the pain comes from being sabotaged by someone you trust, it's very painful.  It's possible it's painful, because the person behaving in the sabotaging way is showing you how much pain they are in (and you care about/love this person).

Yes to both these things - and in my case I would add the sense of violation I felt at being so summarily lied to - I suspect my ex is BPD/NPD. There's an assessment in her in personal file that I was never privy to but that she alluded to as some mix up with her son's school advisor.  I should have clued in but didin't.

[once removed]

If a stranger did this to me, I would shrug it off.  I think the pain comes from being sabotaged by someone you trust, it's very painful.  It's possible it's painful, because the person behaving in the sabotaging way is showing you how much pain they are in (and you care about/love this person).

it is, of course, very different.

we didnt date strangers. and you must have degrees of enmeshment in order to have a close relationship, even the healthiest of them.

but its an analogy (not originally mine) that i think can speak to the level of, and the type of enmeshment, that can leave long lasting wounds, even after the relationship is over.

for what its worth, different people would have different reactions to the stranger. some would be very wounded by the stranger.

to be able to examine "why" and "how", and "where does this come from" gives you a distance from it, and an advantage over it.

Beyond that I came to the realization I have core shame and that this creates a lot of pain and emotional fragility in me.  Realized this stems from my fathers parenting style more so than my moms.  Simply seeing this in me has helped me set healthy boundaries in relationships that have previously caused me distress.

i think youre doing a great job at examining and detaching from the wounds. its hard work, and its also your way out. you can become a better adjusted, more resilient person as a result, with an increased capacity to love and be loved, rather than a decreased one.

im a highly sensitive person myself. realizing that means (ideally) i dont dismiss or embrace my own emotional fragility. i try to find my center: https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind

I had a breakdown and reached out.

so what happened?

[PeteWitsend]

...
Recently ended a 5 year off and on with a pwBPD.  I've known for most of the relationship this person had BPD, but I have off an on struggled with questions of whether I am the one who had the BPD.
...

So, when I first reached out on another website about my (then) wife's behavior, I posted about some things that happened & how she kept creating conflict around them that had now gone on for years.  And also how her stories and behavior never quite added up.  I had never heard of BPD at the time.

I got a lot of bad advice, but one (1) person responded with several long & thorough posts, and explained to me it sounded like my wife had BPD.  They detailed a lot of the traits, and as I read about it more, I realized this was probably what I was dealing with (my XW had been abandoned in childhood, struggled with a difficult mother who returned to her life years later, and most likely had been assaulted on several occasions by both strangers and other family members).  I later spoke to a friend of mine who's a psychiatrist and he agreed; if she wasn't full blown BPD, she was definitely on the spectrum. 

Anyways, one of the things I said in my original post on that website was "I feel like I'm losing my mind dealing with this constant conflict, and the way she changes her story from one minute to the next."

The person who clued me in to BPD responded that BPD is notorious among psychologists and therapists for driving not the people who actually suffer from it to therapy, but those around them.  It's a "crazy making" disorder. 

So you're not alone in this.  I think a lot of us who grew up with more or less honest & loving parents are shocked to discover that someone they decide to trust and enter into a relationship with could intentionally engage in such abusive and manipulative behavior toward them. 

I look back on how naive I was; I certainly knew there was abuse in relationships, sure.  But I imagined it would be something you could see a mile away; and abusive people would leave no doubt as to who they are.  I never realized how insidious it could be in reality, like getting lured into a spider's web, or den of thieves.  I never thought I could have a partner who, instead of looking to build a relationship together and grow in our lives & careers, would intentionally try to break me down mentally.

[Attic]

so what happened?

The whole truth is extremely wretched, what this woman put me through combined with the love bombing and sex to keep me locked in, it came close to killing me.

When I reached out I addressed a portion of what I thought led to the break-up and she wrote a scathing letter back.
-I was controlling
-I sabotaged
-I was miserable to be around
-She knew the relationship was going to end so she prepared herself and her kids.

She prefaced this letter by saying she was writing compassionately for what her and I had.  I believe she did this in an attempt to soften me up for the abusive writing she was going to follow with.

I did not engage back to that letter at the time, I told her I loved her and that perhaps a lesson for her was to forgive - at the heart I believe she will need to forgive the abusers of her when she was a child and her father for abandoning her.

A few weeks later I reached out and asked for an apology for her letter.  To which she simply affirmed the letter as the only time she'd ever been honest with me.  She told me I don't know what Love is, other childish stuff we all sometimes want to say or do say.  This led to brief back and forth in which I called her out and then she said she wanted me to know the relationship was really good, but that I had to let go of a story I made up in my head.  Love of her life, not a day goes by she doesn't love me since we met, we are done, I should be happy I ended the relationship, ... all mixed in for a good tonic.

Writing this out really reveals some of the crazy making I was being peppered with.  

When I look at the totality of what I went through with her I'm unable to sleep, so I was hesitant to write this.

I'm working on forgiveness.  I used to think I had to forgive her, but I believe I should forgive myself for re-engaging a relationship that I knew was abusive.

[Attic]

snip

Yes, so much there to find company with.

[Attic]

I'm in a lot of pain today.  My sister's memorial was yesterday and this has forced me to accept some painful truths about the relationship with my exBPD.

I'm having a hard time detaching from the abuse.  I still ruminate that I ruined everything and have a disorder, rather than firmly acknowledging I made a healthy choice to leave an abusive relationship with someone I love who refused to seek treatment or counseling.

There has been recent contact from me to her and her to me, where i'm blamed for everything and told that I ruined everything.  She will say a bunch or horrible stuff and then say don't contact me (very abusive/controlling).  I don't engage the abusive comments, I simply set a boundary with her, that she breaks again with the abuse. I tell myself the emotional and psychological abuse is something I can handle.  But it breaks me.  It's a cat and mouse game, I believe she knows what she is doing and she's a lot better at it than me because she is willing to hurt me.

I look back on the times I had to leave:
Physical Abuse and Intense Emotional and Psychological abuse -Walked out and left
Her Making up a story that I abused her and telling her mom and my family I had done so - Confusing inability to reconcile what was going on and her sticking to the lie. (this ended our engagement).
Her Txting multiple guys including some nakkid pictures and when I called her out on it she tried to gaslight me by saying she was only saying Goodbye - Unable to have any validation for my feelings and having her firmly stick to her lie... I left.
Her creating an unsafe environment for my kids by extending her emotional abuse from me to them. - Told her We needed to talk.  She responded no, that's all on me.  Spoke briefly which led to her shape shifting memory of what was said and what was important in one moment and what didn't matter at all in the next (very common in the relationship).  Zero ability to reconcile in an adult manner a serious concern for the well being of my kids.  I left.

All the while I made very clear I wanted us to improve and seek therapy to address the issues in the relationship.  Her response, it's all on me, she doesn't need counseling or therapy.

She has projected all of her behaviors onto me in the communications we have had since the breakup. I don't know how this works where she is unable to see it or acknowledge anything she did and i'm constantly tempted to tell her, "The one being nice is probably the one thinking more clearly." (I did not say that!). I am proud that I have remained calm in my communications, I have not said anything mean or hostile.  I've just set boundaries and said nice, validating, affirming things.  This took a lot of strength and awareness.

In the aftermath I'm at one moment the love her life, a best friend, and then I'll get a response that i'm absolute trash and ruined everything.  I understand the painted black is a defense mechanism she uses and I believe she is putting me in the role of her abusive father in order to release some anger at him that she has never really been able to do.  But it breaks me, even in understanding and patience and what I consider love, it breaks me.

I usually end up fine, I focus on breathing work, self improvement, support.  

I feel like i'm abandoning an injured child and i'd never force a child to live by something they said in a moment of angry or pain.  I'm unable to let go right now, and just circling in pain of the impossible.  The choice to hate me, rather than get better, to protect herself... tough pill to swallow.

Going to go self improve and relax, I really needed to write this out to you guys.  I'm in a lot of anxiety and pain as I acknowledge my needs while still caring about this person's well being.

If she's going to figure it out, why not with me?  If she's going to figure it out, it will have to be on her own.  It's that second one I acknowledge, and there is some bittersweet happiness in where that currently feels with me know.

[RestlessWanderer]

Hi Attic. I understand the confusing emotions you are struggling with. I am married to a woman that I , like many of us, Suspect has BPD. I too have experienced the gaslighting which lead me to seeking therapy 3 years ago. I still go every two weeks and I’m reaffirmed that none of the projections are true for me. I know who I am at my core. I am flawed, yes. And I can see that and work to improve or at least control.
The same thing happens to me to. I consider everything she says to me as possible. But if I share the accusations with anyone it becomes obvious that they are false. I’m lucky to have a close friend that I text with nearly every day. She really helps to remind me who I am.
6 months ago my wife and youngest son were in a terrible car accident. My son didn’t survive and my wife barely pulled through. The week after the accident, my wife was in and out of consciousness. This left all of the hard decision making on me regarding our son. As backwards as it may seem, I was able to be my true self during that time. She wasn’t present and couldn’t face what was going on with our son. The doctors told me that she couldn’t make any decisions in her state. I was, in some way, free of the control that I let her have over me. As sad and unimaginably difficult that time was, I felt more like myself than I had in years. It was reaffirming to be able to make decisions that, at that time weren’t questioned. Of course, some of that changed when she was no longer medicated. But I  Iook back at that time and remember that I am none of the things she says. I am still married to her and things are returning to the hell they were before the accident. But now I don’t loose sight of who I am deep down inside.
Her words hurt. But I figured out they hurt because I know they aren’t true. The hurt because I can’t understand how anyone, especially my wife, could say them.

Be steadfast, Attic, in your confidence in who you are. You know the truth. Hold on to that as tight as you can. You’ve worked your whole life to build it. Do your best to not let someone that can’t see themself keep you from seeing what you know to be true.
All this is easier said than done. But practice and keep reminding yourself of what you know to be true.

[once removed]

There has been recent contact from me to her and her to me, where i'm blamed for everything and told that I ruined everything.  She will say a bunch or horrible stuff and then say don't contact me (very abusive/controlling).  I don't engage the abusive comments, I simply set a boundary with her, that she breaks again with the abuse.

can you share more about what is being said here? if theres going to be contact, we can help you navigate.

[Attic]

Thank you RestlessWanderer 

I appreciate the advice and support i've received here.

can you share more about what is being said here? if theres going to be contact, we can help you navigate.

I have been probing her to look at her behavior and where it comes from.  This really upsets her and she'll respond by telling me i'm worthless and lousy and basically a pile of pig PLEASE READ from head to toe.  Then she'll say never contact me.

I point out her abuse and control issues and that I don't deserve to be treated like this.  I also validate that she has a reason for behaving like this.  She's been demanding I never contact her, but we end up in communication from me either breaking that boundary or her breaking that boundary.  I think we both understand the demands for "never contact me" are said in emotional high time, not a wise mind.  She uses the tactic for control and it is painful to me. Though the last time she said it I said i'd respect it and that i'm here if she wants to talk.

Few days later I got a txt about money stuff and she was angry.  I didn't know what it was pertaining to, though I affirmed it would be upsetting and frustrating for her to be dealing with this issue.  I tried to rectify it, and quickly figured out what had happened.  I did owe her some money, and it was an understandable situation.  When I affirmed her, I was then told I was a worthless POS and that this is what was actually frustrating to her     I said, it may feel that way sometimes.  Then she said some more abusive comments.  I said, ouch. And as I was pivoting to getting her reimbursed she blocked me before I could say anything else.

This exchange gave me some more clarity and mainly allowed me to have a place of calm where I can feel hurt but also compassion and understanding for what is going on.  I questioned why I want involvement from someone who treats me so poorly.  Recently I understood I have a lot of internal unresolved pain that I believe is due to how I was treated growing up by my parents.  When growing up, a lot of what I expressed or was going through was treated as shameful or ignored rather than validated and expressed in a healthy way.  Given I have strong emotions, this really put me in a tough and painful place that I was unable to work though.  I believe it led to anger issues in me.  A relationship with BPD pinches and presses against the anger issue.  My Anger leads to or comes from unresolved/unexpressed pain.

This morning I was unblocked and got a txt saying she was sorry and she's working on her issues.

I was happy and proud of her here.  But she only addressed the last night abuse with the apology, non of the other recent or previous abuse.  This apology, unlike her others, was for her behavior and how it affected me.  This stuck out to me.

Her other "apologies" have been along the lines of, "I'm sorry you feel that way, but I don't think i've done anything wrong."

[once removed]

I have been probing her to look at her behavior and where it comes from.  This really upsets her and she'll respond by telling me i'm worthless and lousy and basically a pile of pig PLEASE READ from head to toe.  Then she'll say never contact me.

I point out her abuse and control issues and that I don't deserve to be treated like this.  I also validate that she has a reason for behaving like this.  She's been demanding I never contact her, but we end up in communication from me either breaking that boundary or her breaking that boundary.  I think we both understand the demands for "never contact me" are said in emotional high time, not a wise mind. 

Few days later I got a txt about money stuff and she was angry. 

it sounds like what is happening is unfinished business between the two of you...the relationship problems, woes, fights, continuing even after the breakup. youre both hurt, and resentful, and letting each other have it, and in some ways, that might feel preferable to letting go of the relationship, and of those things.

make no mistake, this will keep you attached. attachment leads to pain, detachment leads to freedom.

thats not to say you should necessarily cut her off, or never speak to her again. you can do so, and detach.

but id be considering what, exactly, i want the relationship to look like going forward. do you want her as a friend? do you want her as a girlfriend? do you want her out of your life? because how to navigate looks very different, depending on which path you want to take.

heres the thing about probing her about her behavior...

any ex is going to take that badly, especially from an ex romantic partner. think about it...if she was doing that to you, even if she meant well, how would you take it? youd feel analyzed and criticized. you might feel blamed for the relationship failure.

we have an article here on surviving a breakup with someone with bpd traits, that speaks to it better than i can:

9) Belief that you need to stay to help them.

You might want to stay to help your partner. You might want to disclose to them that they have borderline personality disorder and help them get into therapy. Maybe you want to help in other ways while still maintaining a “friendship”. The fact is, we are no longer in a position to be the caretaker and support person for our “BPD” partner – no matter how well intentioned. Understand that we have become the trigger for our partner’s bad feelings and bad behavior. Sure, we do not deliberately cause these feelings, but your presence is now triggering them. This is a complex defense mechanism that is often seen with borderline personality disorder when a relationship sours. It’s roots emanate from the deep core wounds associated with the disorder. We can’t begin to answer to this. We also need to question our own motives and your expectations for wanting to help. Is this kindness or a type of “well intentioned” manipulation on your part - an attempt to change them to better serve the relationship as opposed to addressing the lifelong wounds from which they suffer? More importantly, what does this suggest about our own survival instincts – we’re injured, in ways we may not even fully grasp, and it’s important to attend to our own wounds before we attempt to help anyone else. You are damaged. Right now, your primary responsibility really needs to be to yourself – your own emotional survival. If your partner tries to lean on you, it’s a greater kindness that you step away. Difficult, no doubt, but more responsible.

https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/surviving-break-when-your-partner-has-borderline-personality

so what do you think? where would you ideally like to see this go?

[Attic]

it sounds like what is happening is unfinished business between the two of you...the relationship problems, woes, fights, continuing even after the breakup. youre both hurt, and resentful, and letting each other have it, and in some ways, that might feel preferable to letting go of the relationship, and of those things.

make no mistake, this will keep you attached. attachment leads to pain, detachment leads to freedom.

thats not to say you should necessarily cut her off, or never speak to her again. you can do so, and detach.

but id be considering what, exactly, i want the relationship to look like going forward. do you want her as a friend? do you want her as a girlfriend? do you want her out of your life? because how to navigate looks very different, depending on which path you want to take.

heres the thing about probing her about her behavior...

any ex is going to take that badly, especially from an ex romantic partner. think about it...if she was doing that to you, even if she meant well, how would you take it? youd feel analyzed and criticized. you might feel blamed for the relationship failure.

we have an article here on surviving a breakup with someone with bpd traits, that speaks to it better than i can:

so what do you think? where would you ideally like to see this go?

Thank you for your insight.  The attachment is painful.  This woman is an abuser, the link between us leads to abuse.  I should let her go.  I am not responsible for her abandonment fears and i'm not responsible for her pain.

Her response to my probing her behavior makes sense.  It was a lapse in my judgement to reach out, and was a self inflicted wound.  I felt insecure out of contact with her.  Additionally with her reaching out to my family and friends, this led to me contacting her and moving back into the cycle of abuse.


What I want is to let go and stop being angry and hurt.

I worked through the 10 Steps of surviving the breakup.  I really though I had it after completing the steps.

I'm much stronger now that I have been in a long time.  I realize I behaved in ways that hurt the relationship, and i'm angry at myself for that.  I also realize her behavior made me sick and that I wasn't thinking clearly.

Someone unhealthy chooses someone unhealthy.  I am proud I chose to try and get healthy rather than stay in a unhealthy relationship with this person.

I don't want to hurt this person.  I'm stuck on thinking detaching will hurt this person.  I don't want to be friends with this person.

I don't have hope any longer.

[once removed]

I'm stuck on thinking detaching will hurt this person.  I don't want to be friends with this person.

I don't have hope any longer.

i dont want to put words in your mouth, but think, really think, about whether you are stuck on thinking detaching will hurt this person, or whether that is a way of avoiding the hurt of detachment yourself.

i tried to break up with my ex many times. i couldnt follow through, partly because of how i feared shed take it. of course, she dumped me, and i took it like a basket case. we both struggled to let go, but im the one that, deep down, was too afraid to do it.

i actually had the same thing going on after we broke up. i discovered she was getting into the email address attached to my facebook and reading messages that were being sent to me. i let it go for a couple of months. i told myself it would hurt her to change my password, but in reality, i was afraid of severing the last connection.

but this is about you, not me, and i may be off base.

in any event, if you dont want to be her friend, and want to let her go, choose the path that makes the most sense for you. it isnt necessarily a strict cut off where you block her and go cold turkey. and it isnt necessarily having regular conversations where you rehash the old relationship woes and fight.

its often smoothest on everyone to pull away gradually, and cut out emotionally charged contact.

we have a great article on choosing the right path: https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/no-contact-right-way-wrong-way

[Attic]

i dont want to put words in your mouth, but think, really think, about whether you are stuck on thinking detaching will hurt this person, or whether that is a way of avoiding the hurt of detachment yourself.

It's well taken.  In my case I feel the fear of letting go and I also have a concern for her well being.  I'm not at a place where I'm comfortable going NC because in truth, this would hurt and confuse me. 

She has initiated contact 2x, both times led to abuse and push/pull.  Up close i'm the guy with pie on my face, with a frown under the pie.  From a 10,000ft view, it's silly.  Really super silly.

When I really detach from the behavior, I don't take the behavior from her personally.  Then I look around and i'm left with a person I love, who I'm unable to have a sustainable healthy relationship be with.  A person I love, who I'm unable to resolve issues involved that inhibited our growth (the most frustrating aspect).

I find a measured amount of calm in acceptance here.

Someone recently told me the relationships we have, particularly with loved ones are a reflection into ourselves.  We are all just trying to have some fun and figure ourselves out a bit more.  As I become stronger, more honest and more full-filled, the pain of the relationship subsides.  This happens because I gain clarity of who I am, free from the distortions created by the enmeshment to an emotionally confused individual.  I'm going to follow this path, towards me.

For today I choose to let it be.

[Attic]

Well I reached out with an email.  

Few nights ago I ate a gummy and was looking at the night sky when I had an epiphany that all the abusive stuff she said and did to me was exactly how she felt.  I realized it was the reality she lived in.  

It completely removed the remaining contempt I felt for her.

Kind of a,
"Oh, that makes sense.  That was her truth.  That's actually ok and understandable."

Before that I was of the mind she was making things up on purpose to hurt me because she wasn't strong/smart/decent enough to take responsibility for her actions.  Grrrrrrrrrr, ragequit, Alt+F4, smash guitar vibes.

So in the moment I kinda went,
"Holy crap, our realities are totally different, that makes sense."

Then I made the leap that she behaves like that out of fear.  The fear of abandonment and the fear of the pain of acknowledging her role in the abandonment; shapes and distorts her thoughts in order to keep her feeling safe and in control.  And this occurs without her being aware, which is why it works.  Ok cool.

"Let's think of how I can bring this awareness to her.  Wait shouldn't I be not contacting her, it always leads to pain,..."

So of course I wrote a letter in which I acknowledged my faults and when I had acted from fear in the relationship and described how that felt for me.  I touched on how when I acted like that it would have made things very difficult for her.  I didn't fault her for anything.

And I friggen told her she was my soul mate!    

Ok Gummies, back in the closet you go.

I'm still searching for that "ahah!" moment.

Really super painful at times, kind of like passing waves.  Sometimes i'm feeling great, and then panic hits (for me this panic stems from fear).

I haven't heard back and haven't reached out again.  I believed we were looking at marriage once we dialed in the communication and trust issues.  I realize I haven't fully given up on the hope of addressing the core issues in the relationship.  I'm also further along the line of accepting things for what they are.

The architecture of how I feel about this person is pretty simple, I can't believe how many trap doors and boogey traps I keep falling into in that small quaint space.  But again, understanding.

I myself am now working hard at avoiding taking actions (or not taking actions) based on distortions of fear in my psyche.  The awareness of the fear has been interesting to put it lightly, it's quite challenging to work through.

[once removed]

Wait shouldn't I be not contacting her, it always leads to pain,..."

maybe. or maybe less over all.

I realize I haven't fully given up on the hope of addressing the core issues in the relationship.

it doesnt have to be the contact itself, necessarily, but the nature of it.

it sounds like youre trying, on some level, to either repair the relationship, or at the very least, change the outcome. youre in a precarious position to take that approach.

an ex lover has no idea how to take such a message, especially when there has been fighting. they may question your motives. they may feel youre trying to get back together. the words could sound more like blame, even if they arent intended to be.

without reading the letter, its hard to say, but i would take a lack of response as a general "im not sure what to do with this".

who broke up with whom, this last time? why?

[Attic]

it sounds like youre trying, on some level, to either repair the relationship, or at the very least, change the outcome. youre in a precarious position to take that approach.

an ex lover has no idea how to take such a message, especially when there has been fighting. they may question your motives. they may feel youre trying to get back together. the words could sound more like blame, even if they arent intended to be.

Yes.  Excellent points.

without reading the letter, its hard to say, but i would take a lack of response as a general "im not sure what to do with this".

who broke up with whom, this last time? why?

I ended the relationship.  There were issues with my children's well being and she was unwilling/unable to talk about it.  Her 13 year old son was showing odd and concerning behavior with my 2 year old daughter and he was being disrespectful to me.  This was not the only issue with the kids, but was a significant concern to me.  She had been antagonistic about going to therapy and I was at my wits end for how to address anything with her for the last two weeks of the relationship.  Her behavior was so difficult near the end that I just snapped and told her it wasn't going to work with the kids.


She apparently never received the letter I sent.  After I sent the letter I got a txt from her 5 days later saying,

"Hey, everything ok?"

"I'm good.  I was thinking about you."

"I think I felt that."

"Yes, ... did you get my letter?"

"No"

We ended up talking for an extended period of time on the phone the following night from a phone call I initiated.  

She said she thought the relationship was going to end for a long time before I ended it.  I told her that her feeling the relationship was going to end was fear based and her thinking the relationship was going to end may have drawn it to a close.  She got verbally abusive and laughed at me.  She was of the mind that her staying with me while she thought the relationship was going to end was a sign of her true love for me.

She had told her two kids I was going to leave while her and I were still in the relationship.  Of course she left me in the dark on this.  I figured this led to some of the confusion and disrespectful behavior I saw from her son.  Way too much for that poor kid to deal with, which surely led to some of what I was seeing from him.  An impossible situation she put me in.

She mentioned that when I reached out to talk about the kids that she thought about it carefully but thought I was just being manipulative so she didn't see a need to talk about it. When I attempted to address the importance of that she became verbally abusive.  When I brought up her Sons behavior with my 2 year old, verbally abusive.  

Her pattern of behavior was very clear, anytime I approached a wall she erected she attacked.

The call went a lot longer than I wanted and I blew up at her a few times in response to the verbal abuse, but she remained calm in my eruptions.  She was lovey dovey voice by the end of the 3 hour call.


I believe she thinks i'm crazy and that it is the whole kit and kaboodle of her appreciation of me at this point in time.

In response to me calling out her verbal abuse and behavior in a recent txt, she has again asked me to never text her again.  It's been a bit of push pull i'm used to with her.  I'm trying to not make things worse as anything I touch is electrocuted.

I haven't responded.

It's a very alluring relationship to me.  Her and I mirror each other a lot.

I'm trying to resolve how I feel about blocking vs remaining open to future contact.  Recent pattern has her been being abusive with a tail whip of demanding I never contact her again, and then I hear from her within a week for something.

[once removed]

She said she thought the relationship was going to end for a long time before I ended it.  I told her that her feeling the relationship was going to end was fear based and her thinking the relationship was going to end may have drawn it to a close.  She got verbally abusive and laughed at me.  She was of the mind that her staying with me while she thought the relationship was going to end was a sign of her true love for me.

when a relationship is breaking down, both parties tend to be on very different pages, and have very different ideas of why it broke/is breaking down.

the two of you are really just arguing over your very different versions, trying to convince each other of your respective versions.

It's a very alluring relationship to me.  Her and I mirror each other a lot.

i think this is the crux of it.

you have one foot in the pressure cooker and one in the frying pan.

on some level, you are trying to resolve the relationship and save it at the same time.

Attic, i really encourage you to commit, as much as you are able, to one path...either try to save this, or break from it.

if you arent done, and are going to remain in contact, it would make more sense to post on the Bettering board, learn the tools, and learn to navigate these interactions.

if you are trying to detach...these conversations, the nature of them, are really just furthering attachment.

regardless, the two of you are going at each other, and not in a healthy or constructive way. the more you are able, even in the short term, to choose a path, the more i think we can help you move things on a healthier, less painful path.

[Attic]

Yes, I've chosen to commit to the path of resolving with her. 

A lot of my struggle/breakdown is perhaps coming from my lack of commitment, confuses me.  Probably has been confusing her.

Thank you for your support.

Share with me your strength and calm guys/gals.

[once removed]

Yes, I've chosen to commit to the path of resolving with her. 

do you mean detaching, or trying to save the relationship?

i assume the former. if you mean the latter, do start a thread on the Bettering/Reversing board.

some things depend on whether you want to maintain a friendship, or acquaintance, or move on completely. you dont really need to decide today, and i wouldnt do anything drastic.

the one thing i would do (regardless) is to seriously limit (if not all together stop) the emotionally charged conversations, the arguing, the fighting, or even reminiscing. accept that the relationship is over, that the issues from the relationship died with it, and commit, mentally, to moving past them.

if you feel the need to reach out, keep it light. for the time being, i would leave most of that to her, to get the space i need to detach. the fact that she said "never text me again" may have been out of exasperation and overstated, but its a good opportunity to start to put that in practice, give both of you some distance.

[Attic]

do you mean detaching, or trying to save the relationship?

I'm looking at detaching from the obsession with trying to fix things and commit to accepting what lays before me.  To me this means keeping space for her in a loving calm way while focusing on myself.

We spoke after her demands to never txt again with a few silly things and I left that line of communication with sharing fault for the failure of the relationship and an apology for not meeting her trust and needs.  She's been creating/reliving these situations since childhood.  I trust the apology will resonate with her over time.  She let me know she appreciated the apology and we have left it at that.

For now I hand it over to time, and in that i'm going to detach from the pain and torment of the relationship and it's aftermath.  This means not reaching out to her and disengaging the emotional turmoil of her disorder when it is applied to me.

After some time has passed, I will post to the bettering board.

[Rev]

After some time has passed, I will post to the bettering board.

My friend Attic,

If you have come to the edge and decided to rationally go back to the bettering board, then I congratulate you for your courage and all the effort you have put in to get to this place.

You will benefit greatly from your discernment and I am so thankful to have participated in this discussion. In a weird way, it affirms what I have been doing in the wake of my own decisions. It affirms them even if eventually chose a different path. But I so much relate to all the questions you asked and your willingness to chew on the answers.

Best of luck my friend.

Stay safe.

Rev

[Attic]

Thank you Rev, that means a lot to hear.

Making the choice was important, a challenge, but it got me on a path I want to be on.  I realized I have some inner personal growth and acceptance of personal challenges to work through.

One of the most rewarding things to come out of this experience has been the improvement in my relationship with my two kids, I realized I had to step fully into being their father instead of being on and off the sidelines with them.

[GoblinMom]

Attic,
BPD is a spectrum, from mild to severe.  You can have some BPD behaviors without having full fledged BPD.  I think when have too much stress for a long time were can all have a few BPD behaviors.  When I have to work without a break for a long time I get weepy, get mad and start arguing with my boss and I don't usually do that..  The last time I did it I said to him that I wondered if I had BPD and he said, "So do you know anybody else like you?  I need to hire one more person". 

I think that a break up can be very stressful and a good reason to see a therapist even if just to have them clarify things for you.
Best of luck to you

[Attic]

Yes.

When our relationship with an SO pushes us into that mental state it is confusing.

I'm taking a moment to update the Forum that I chose to Block and go NC.  Not easy and sometimes I feel like i'm falling without a parachute, though i'm being mindful to accept that this is a choice to give up hope for the relationship.

My breaking point was realizing that the more I tried to have a healthy and loving relationship, the more she would hurt me.  I acknowledged that I didn't have any control over that.

[BuildingFromScratch]

I mean, I was actually probably misdiagnosed only a couple years ago with BPD, my current counselor doesn't think I have it, I don't think I have it. But I sometimes have felt like I do, especially right after the breakup.

All the projection, abuse and manipulation causes you to feel like how they feel, and as your self esteem crashes, and you start to feel horrible about yourself, you become desperate, needy, afraid of abandonment, more impulsive, more prone to guilt, shame, projection, less trusting, etc. In other words you actually start exhibiting a lot of the same traits as them.

The truth thought is I definitely had some traits before the relationship, but to a lesser degree. But the relationship amplified them, and then added new issues.

We can heal a lot quicker than they can though, I'm about 8 years or so out of the relationship and I still deal with some of the trauma (granted I was in the relationship a long time, 10 years). Still, I feel like with a lot of hard work and abstaining from romantic relationships, I've come a really long way.

People with BPD are stuck in repeating the exact same mistakes over and over though, jumping from relationship to relationship. I think one of the telltale signs of not being BPD is that you can live without a relationship. BPD is a disorder based on dependency.

[Rev]

Yes.

When our relationship with an SO pushes us into that mental state it is confusing.

I'm taking a moment to update the Forum that I chose to Block and go NC.  Not easy and sometimes I feel like i'm falling without a parachute, though i'm being mindful to accept that this is a choice to give up hope for the relationship.

My breaking point was realizing that the more I tried to have a healthy and loving relationship, the more she would hurt me.  I acknowledged that I didn't have any control over that.

Attic

Healthy discerning.  I was in the same place. Decided it was time to end the abuse before I ended up on stress leave for domestic issues.

Hang in there.

Rev.