HELP - I’ve unleashed the beast, so to speak part 3

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

This is a continuation of a previous thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=343879.30

Hi Empath,

Thank you for chiming in, it is appreciated.

I haven't posted a lot lately, but I've been following your story. Like our friends, I would encourage you to access outside support - whatever that looks like - during this time. I've been through a situation where my h was having a mental health crisis (a couple of times), and he took some drastic actions that changed the course of our family life. The first time it happened, I wasn't able to do a lot about it due to a crisis in our community; my h became physically abusive toward me during that time.

That sounds horrible. It’s a spot I’m struggling with.  That everything is falling apart at the one time we can’t leave the house (or he can’t because lately he has run away when he’s triggered) and yet, that is exactly the point. The pandemic is pushing him over when he was already on the edge.

I resent his inability to function. He can tell me (and everyone) each and every step we should take, but when it is the most important point in our entire lives to have a partner who is supposed to work WITH you  — literally life and death — he’s absolutely disappeared and left everything on me — and in vile, abusive fashion. I try to see that he has an illness, but think the hurt is too great right now for me to sustain sympathy.

I think it would be good to recognize the signs of a mental health crisis:
- inability to perform daily tasks (bathing, brushing hair, teeth, changing clothes)

He is bathing and I assume brushing his teeth. He is not changing his clothes and they are visibly dirty. It’s odd.

- rapid mood swings

He’s always flown off the handle, but happy to sad/depressed I haven’t seen. I have not had any interaction with him in 4 days so I don’t know if he’s doing this. I suspect some. One day he doesn’t leave the room, the next he’s out and talkative to our oldest son. Laughing and having a good time (zero interaction with me). Today he’s back in our room except he grabbed food mid afternoon.  But appeared showered, same clothes.

- increased agitation (verbal threats, destroying property, violent behavior)

Verbal abuse has been fairly constant for the last 9 months.

He doesn’t threaten to physically hurt me. He’s said he would take the kids from me, other times he tells me I can have them. Sometimes he tells me he won’t give me a dime, others he tells me I can have all his money (he doesn’t have any except income).

He broke some household items this week, but he has on occasion broken other things. It is sad how much behavior I’ve forgotten about or simply chosen to look the other way/get over.  

- abusive behavior toward self or others (this can include self-harm and substance abuse)

I haven’t seen this other than verbal, and physical breaking things.

- isolation

This is new.

- loses touch with reality

Had an incidence of this about a year ago. Story is in this thread. Happy to reshare if helpful.

- paranoia (suspicion or mistrust without evidence)

Of course I think of paranoia as being someone is chasing you. That would be a no, but, he is generally skeptical of people’s intentions.

Definite suspicion and mistrust without evidence is often present. No idea if it’s more pronounced now since we’re not speaking.

Sometimes, we get so used to minimizing our lives and situations that we minimize something that should not be. It can be hard to trust our instincts and gut feelings. What are some things that you find helpful to calm your fears?

100%.  Could not agree more. I have minimized and then allowed this all to snowball into a huge mess.

Calming fears — having a plan, being prepared, proactively looking for a job and alternative shelter.

Boundaries to not listen to the verbal assaults. Physically being removed from him.

I called DV hotline. I may call again in the next couple of days. Going to try to call a high conflict divorce attorney or two this week just to get a feel for what this may look like. Worried I may lose my nerve.

I’d like to reach out to my sister some more. I have to be careful with this. It is a complicated situation.

I have a dear friend who is the kindest soul. I have never told her a thing about this, but I may talk to her. I hate to lay something like this on someone unsuspecting and who knows nothing about BPD.  Some embarrassment a lot of shame.

Just putting together my list and going to try to work on it.

Thank you for sharing your story and knowledge.

[UBPDHelp]

This is a continuation of a previous thread: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=343879.30

Hi Empath,

Thank you for chiming in, it is appreciated.

I haven't posted a lot lately, but I've been following your story. Like our friends, I would encourage you to access outside support - whatever that looks like - during this time. I've been through a situation where my h was having a mental health crisis (a couple of times), and he took some drastic actions that changed the course of our family life. The first time it happened, I wasn't able to do a lot about it due to a crisis in our community; my h became physically abusive toward me during that time.

That sounds horrible. It’s a spot I’m struggling with.  That everything is falling apart at the one time we can’t leave the house (or he can’t because lately he has run away when he’s triggered) and yet, that is exactly the point. The pandemic is pushing him over when he was already on the edge.

I resent his inability to function. He can tell me (and everyone) each and every step we should take, but when it is the most important point in our entire lives to have a partner who is supposed to work WITH you  — literally life and death — he’s absolutely disappeared and left everything on me — and in vile, abusive fashion. I try to see that he has an illness, but think the hurt is too great right now for me to sustain sympathy.

I think it would be good to recognize the signs of a mental health crisis:
- inability to perform daily tasks (bathing, brushing hair, teeth, changing clothes)

He is bathing and I assume brushing his teeth. He is not changing his clothes and they are visibly dirty. It’s odd.

- rapid mood swings

He’s always flown off the handle, but happy to sad/depressed I haven’t seen. I have not had any interaction with him in 4 days so I don’t know if he’s doing this. I suspect some. One day he doesn’t leave the room, the next he’s out and talkative to our oldest son. Laughing and having a good time (zero interaction with me). Today he’s back in our room except he grabbed food mid afternoon.  But appeared showered, same clothes.

- increased agitation (verbal threats, destroying property, violent behavior)

Verbal abuse has been fairly constant for the last 9 months.

He doesn’t threaten to physically hurt me. He’s said he would take the kids from me, other times he tells me I can have them. Sometimes he tells me he won’t give me a dime, others he tells me I can have all his money (he doesn’t have any except income).

He broke some household items this week, but he has on occasion broken other things. It is sad how much behavior I’ve forgotten about or simply chosen to look the other way/get over.  

- abusive behavior toward self or others (this can include self-harm and substance abuse)

I haven’t seen this other than verbal, and physical breaking things.

- isolation

This is new.

- loses touch with reality

Had an incidence of this about a year ago. Story is in this thread. Happy to reshare if helpful.

- paranoia (suspicion or mistrust without evidence)

Of course I think of paranoia as being someone is chasing you. That would be a no, but, he is generally skeptical of people’s intentions.

Definite suspicion and mistrust without evidence is often present. No idea if it’s more pronounced now since we’re not speaking.

Sometimes, we get so used to minimizing our lives and situations that we minimize something that should not be. It can be hard to trust our instincts and gut feelings. What are some things that you find helpful to calm your fears?

100%.  Could not agree more. I have minimized and then allowed this all to snowball into a huge mess.

Calming fears — having a plan, being prepared, proactively looking for a job and alternative shelter.

Boundaries to not listen to the verbal assaults. Physically being removed from him.

I called DV hotline. I may call again in the next couple of days. Going to try to call a high conflict divorce attorney or two this week just to get a feel for what this may look like. Worried I may lose my nerve.

I’d like to reach out to my sister some more. I have to be careful with this. It is a complicated situation.

I have a dear friend who is the kindest soul. I have never told her a thing about this, but I may talk to her. I hate to lay something like this on someone unsuspecting and who knows nothing about BPD.  Some embarrassment a lot of shame.

Just putting together my list and going to try to work on it.

Thank you for sharing your story and knowledge.

[UBPDHelp]

Hi FF,

A small "tactical" bit of advice since, keeping the peace is important.

If it ever comes up again that you are asked to give something up or do something and you want to say "no"...it may be better to say "Yes...right after xyz."

This is helpful. I try to be diplomatic but fail miserably in the heat of the moment. I was still stinging from him telling me we were over and then ranting about the old BF.

I guess I need to work on slowing my reaction.  

Thank you for the refresher.

[formflier]

You have had time to think about your conversation with the DV line you called.

What questions do you have?  What surprised you about the call (if anything)?

If you have a way to make private notes (perhaps in your email or some other secure place), get your questions about "process" (and anything else) together for your next call.

Did you ask about financial support?  What about support with legal things? 

Best,

FF

[UBPDHelp]

Hi FF,

You have had time to think about your conversation with the DV line you called.

What questions do you have?  What surprised you about the call (if anything)?

I haven’t formed any questions yet. We mostly just talked about the various forms of abuse and safety plans, what to bring if I go, assuming planned.

I pulled important docs and some changes of clothes in a bag. Still debating best place to keep it. Debating about getting a small storage unit or something. That may be over the top.

If you have a way to make private notes (perhaps in your email or some other secure place), get your questions about "process" (and anything else) together for your next call.

This is a good idea. I have an email account he doesn’t know that I send copies of the rage text messages and pictures of the broken things, stuff like that.

I don’t ever go into it, just a repository for tracking. I can definitely take advantage of this to keep notes. Thank you for suggesting that.

Did you ask about financial support?  What about support with legal things?

Do you mean advice on support H may have to provide?

We only discussed the behavior/abuse and safety planning.

Love any suggestions on follow up questions. Do these go to DV or an attorney, or both?

There’s still a part of me that wonders if he’s just now struggling with pandemic (obviously not all he’s struggling with) and if I’m being too harsh on him. Then I think about his behavior, and even if I disregard the breaking things, which I can’t, there’s no way to continue. And, yet, I’m still afraid of my future.

Undoubtedly I will end up even more broken if this continues. I have to muster my strength.

Thank you...

  

[formflier]

Is your extra email account a "gmail"?

(make sure you have a solid password on all your accounts and phones)

I'm only handing out this advice because it's what I'm familiar with, my guess is other email systems are similar.

If you have a scanner in your house...great.  If not, there are apps for your phone where you can take a picture and it will send turn it into a pdf.

At this point upload the pdf to "google drive."

Sure it's great to have originals, but you will have an easier time with logistics if you have pdfs of all your important stuff.

A great question for the DV people is what documents to have originals of and what to have digital of?

I would focus questions on a repeat DV call.  Talk through how it works..think lots of practical things (like how to I get food, wash clothes..etc etc)

Think about your life..ask questions about how to get it back to "kinda normal" if you have to go the shelter route.

Best,

FF

[UBPDHelp]

Hi FF,

Thank you. These are all great ideas. I do use gmail and have strong passwords. I don’t use the email address for anything except to store the history, so doesn’t even know it exists. If you recall, H makes me delete the text messages. (“Makes” makes me cringe now. But, he would check to see if I did and then would spiral on a rant.)

I do have a scanner and a scanner app on my phone. Also great idea to have a digital copy of all the important docs too.

And thanks for some follow up questions for the DV people.

I can’t believe this is my life.

[Turkish]

If goggle is used widely in your household across several devices (phones, PC, tablets), use another search engine. I can see what my kids search for, as an example, if I use Google on my work PC, or my phone... I haven't used Duckduckgo, but I've heard it's good. Maybe use edge rather than chrome, if you've been issuing chrome.

Now is the time to be as wise as a serpent and as innocent as a dove.   

[formflier]

What I do is anytime I'm doing something "interesting" (like BPDfamily) I use "incognito" mode in Chrome.

I'm also a stickler for locking chromebooks or logging out so I don't leave things unattended.

You've got this...work on those questions.

Best,

FF

[empath]

Not all the signs of a crisis need to be present to indicate cause for concern.

That sounds horrible. It’s a spot I’m struggling with.  That everything is falling apart at the one time we can’t leave the house (or he can’t because lately he has run away when he’s triggered) and yet, that is exactly the point. The pandemic is pushing him over when he was already on the edge.

I resent his inability to function. He can tell me (and everyone) each and every step we should take, but when it is the most important point in our entire lives to have a partner who is supposed to work WITH you  — literally life and death — he’s absolutely disappeared and left everything on me — and in vile, abusive fashion. I try to see that he has an illness, but think the hurt is too great right now for me to sustain sympathy.

I struggled with resentment, too. It's hard to have sympathy in a crisis situation; it hurts to be abandoned right when you need help the most.

I'm glad that you are reaching out to the DV hotline. I found them helpful when I was trying to think through my situation. Are you talking to a local organization or the national one?

I have a folder in my google drive that has scans of the important docs that I would need if I had to leave my home. Do you have access to cash? Are there apps on your phone that show your location?

[babyducks]

For instance, he’s triggered by my past. There is not much there but I believe he has exaggerated it. I will no longer discuss. But he watches tv shows/movies directed at the first time ( his biggest hang up — one time and all value is gone, except for him.  And what about the several gfs he had and then discarded — tremendous double standard).  He’ll watch them and then his mood shifts. Most times he knows it’s part of the movie and he chooses to watch it with me. I can see him visibly tense.

I see this as projection.    when I first came here projection was one of the harder things for me to understand.   the technical definition is this:

Psychological projection is a defense mechanism in which the human ego defends itself against unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others

it took me a while to see how all people project.     took me a while to see how projection was at work in my relationship.    he is projecting his hang up onto you in order to make himself feel more 'right'.      there is nothing in your past.   

this is about him.   a T can help you see the nuances of that.

'ducks

[I Am Redeemed]

I agree with 'ducks; I see projection, here, too. The things you said about him and his ex girlfriend made me think that he is projecting his behavior onto you, attributing it to you as a way of discharging negative things about himself.

[formflier]

  Are there apps on your phone that show your location?

And have you practiced turning off your location/location history on your phone?

Best,

FF

[UBPDHelp]

If goggle is used widely in your household across several devices (phones, PC, tablets), use another search engine. I can see what my kids search for, as an example, if I use Google on my work PC, or my phone... I haven't used Duckduckgo, but I've heard it's good. Maybe use edge rather than chrome, if you've been issuing chrome.

Now is the time to be as wise as a serpent and as innocent as a dove.   

Thanks Turkish.  I do use chrome on my computer, safari on my phone and tablet. I only come here on my tablet and clear my history every time. No one else uses my tablet.

I know a few who use DuckDuckGo...didn’t understand why. I’ll look into it.

Thank you for the suggestions.

[UBPDHelp]

What I do is anytime I'm doing something "interesting" (like BPDfamily) I use "incognito" mode in Chrome.

I'm also a stickler for locking chromebooks or logging out so I don't leave things unattended.

You've got this...work on those questions.

Thanks FF.  Incognito is good and private on iPhones/iPads. I do very carefully remove my tracking history. Makes me feel like I’m being dishonest...just another hit to my character. But know it’s about staying safe.

[UBPDHelp]

Hi Empath,

Istruggled with resentment, too. It's hard to have sympathy in a crisis situation; it hurts to be abandoned right when you need help the most.

So true. And I think that illustrates both the illusion they create and the selfishness. My H is primary breadwinner, we made most big family decisions (always end with what do I think?) together but in true crisis, he collapses for what he’s going through. I could sure use help with the kids and their homeschooling, securing food (we’re told not to go to super for next 2 weeks unless emergency — I have a delivery in a couple of days that I booked 2 weeks ago and never thought we would need — I keep adding more to the cart until time is up). Help figuring out what bills to pay when he’s just stopped working and just watches tv all day.

A lot of resentment.

I'm glad that you are reaching out to the DV hotline. I found them helpful when I was trying to think through my situation. Are you talking to a local organization or the national one?

I chatted with National but also have local. I have a follow up call on my to do list and at least one call to a lawyer. Doing that makes it feel real and final and I’m just trying to get in the mindset and also reel in my emotions so I can actually have a productive call.

I have a folder in my google drive that has scans of the important docs that I would need if I had to leave my home. Do you have access to cash? Are there apps on your phone that show your location?

FF also mentioned using drive and I think that’s a great idea.

I can get cash assuming atms are working, but also debit card so could pay for things that way too.

I have most of my location services off, but a good reminder to go back and check.

Thank you for sharing. I’m open to any/all suggestions, so please feel free to share if you think of anything else.

[UBPDHelp]

I see this as projection.    when I first came here projection was one of the harder things for me to understand.   the technical definition is this:

it took me a while to see how all people project.     took me a while to see how projection was at work in my relationship.    he is projecting his hang up onto you in order to make himself feel more 'right'.      there is nothing in your past.   

this is about him.   a T can help you see the nuances of that.

I have wondered about that, but am stuck between two scenarios.

Is he projecting that he was immoral when he slept with his 16 yo gf (whom he believes still loves him and that they are forever connected. I mean I get the sleeping together never changes, but the r/s broke off).

Or

Is he projecting that his standard is to have a virginal wife, so he’s projecting that standard to me?

The first seems like mirroring, which honest to goodness I totally did not understand until I read an explanation on another thread and was like “aha!”

He has gone so far as to say — I know you probably think that’s a sexist double standard, but blah blah. Don’t remember the convoluted reason it wasn’t.

He has told me that I am biblically married to my old bf.  He must be married to at least 3 people. Like I can’t even wrap my head around it.

[UBPDHelp]

I agree with 'ducks; I see projection, here, too. The things you said about him and his ex girlfriend made me think that he is projecting his behavior onto you, attributing it to you as a way of discharging negative things about himself.

Thanks I Am Redeemed,

I have wondered this a bit. He feels so strongly and can relate eating a second helping of peas to being a slut. I just don’t get it.

And how can he think she still loves him (and I believe he thinks secretly they will get back together) but still be ashamed of it?

This may be additional fodder now that we’re circling this back to him.

This old gf lives in the same town. Through the grapevine I know her second husband is close to dying or may already have. H knows this...any chance this is drumming up the extra emotions? 

I shared this info at some point but more in an off the cuff comment.

I don’t really need to explore another possibility because it is just becoming overly apparent that if he’s not willing to address his behavior, get help and try to change, there’s no moving forward. This is up to him, I’ll support it, but it’s on him. And I believe he believes he would be happier if I wasn’t here. And if that’s true, I wouldn’t want to be here anyway.

Thanks for your input.

[empath]

I can get cash assuming atms are working, but also debit card so could pay for things that way too.

When my h moved out, he pulled all the funds from our joint account. I had been pulling bits of cash here and there, so I had some that was available because I couldn't access anything from our joint accounts. I also talked with the local DV organization to get more specifics about how to deal with the immediate needs that my daughter and I would have.

I was reading a book recently in which the author said that sexual entitlement was often an underlying factor in dv situations. I experienced that from my h, too.

[AskingWhy]

Projection is a common cognitive distortion of a BPD.   uBPD H comes from very sick, twisted family from his messed up F and M to his distorted uBPD and uNPD children, and uNPD X W. 

It's convenient for H to blame me for his misery and self hatred as I am his W. 

I am sorry this is happening.

[UBPDHelp]

When my h moved out, he pulled all the funds from our joint account. I had been pulling bits of cash here and there, so I had some that was available because I couldn't access anything from our joint accounts. I also talked with the local DV organization to get more specifics about how to deal with the immediate needs that my daughter and I would have.

I was reading a book recently in which the author said that sexual entitlement was often an underlying factor in dv situations. I experienced that from my h, too.

So disheartening he would do this you and your daughter. I am so sorry that you had to deal with that uncertainty on top of everything else.

I have a separate account that he doesn’t have access to. It’s all the money I have, which isn’t a ton, and he’s decided not to work so he literally does not have a dime of his own — but hey we had a great vacation that he complained about the whole time or whatever other nonsense he needed.

I keep applying for every remote job I’m qualified for but am now competing with 6 million people. I will do any job that will pay me as soon as we can go back out. Financial uncertainty is my biggest fear at this point, but I am confident the pandemic will end and because I will do anything, I’ll start the path to a better life.

Thank you Empath, it’s great to have support even if under terrible circumstances. Faith and hope for better days.

[UBPDHelp]

Projection is a common cognitive distortion of a BPD.   uBPD H comes from very sick, twisted family from his messed up F and M to his distorted uBPD and uNPD children, and uNPD X W. 

It's convenient for H to blame me for his misery and self hatred as I am his W. 

I am sorry this is happening.

Thanks AskingWhy.  I read your update on the other thread. It certainly sounds like you have your hands full, but sounds like you’re getting your boundaries in order.

Projection seems to be a common thing with my H, too. Some are obvious (maybe not even true projection), like because I don’t like the school principal, you must not either. But hurling insults ABOUT me, although untrue, has felt very much as he believed what he was saying.

Honestly, I’m not cut out for this.  I’m pretty much a what you see is what you get kind of person. I have compassion, fairness but I’m not a doormat anywhere else.  My intent to be helpful and supportive was taken advantage of to a point I have virtually no right to my own thoughts or feelings. I am to blame as well, but I simply cannot live this way anymore.

Thank you for your input. 

[UBPDHelp]

Just a small update... losing track of days here.  

H was not out of our room much yesterday. Mid afternoon and late grabbed quick food.

Today he stayed in til late morning. He got up earlier b/c he had a work call, not doing work, just a touch base. He made some food, I was elsewhere. I ate lunch with the kids. He watched tv (loudly) in the alcove, went outside a bit and then back to tv watching. Grabbed some food and then retreated back to our room. Earlier night, maybe b/c he got up earlier?

He has no interaction with me or a couple of kids — they stay away from him as much as possible on a regular day.

Last time he left the house for several days, came back and we “spoke”, he told me that if I hadn’t tried to talk with him he would have never spoken to me again. I suspect that is where we are now. We have crossed a point that this is now the longest we’ve gone without communicating.

I am heartbroken that this is where we are. I feel discarded. It feels terrible. And, it’s worse being trapped home because I want to take some steps to make my life better and can’t right now. Maybe it’s good to have time to think but feel antsy. 

If we’re inside for another month or so, I don’t know how we’ll survive.

On a side note, still feel he’s baiting me.  Examples, he leaves all his dirty dishes in the alcove. Has glasses in our room and he doesn’t bring them back to kitchen. He knows there are bills to pay and that he doesn’t have a paycheck, but says nothing to me. I could ask, but this is a huge trigger for him if I talk about money. So, not sure what to do.  Guess I’ll make the next round of decisions and tell him he was absentee if he has a problem with it.

Idk...any suggestions are welcome. Thank you!

[formflier]

 Guess I’ll make the next round of decisions and tell him he was absentee if he has a problem with it.
 

Make the decision YES!

Tell him he was absentee...NO!

If he doesn't like it give him option for next time, don't debate the past.

Think about what you have learned so far.  I wonder why I would give such advice?

Best,

FF

[babyducks]

Hi UBH,

I have wondered about that, but am stuck between two scenarios.

My guess is that it's neither that simple or that benign.    BPD and NPD are both disorders of shame.   at the very core.   

BPD = No one loves me, treats me right, ( I am unlovable) ... it's clearly because they are horrible mean nasty evil people.   

What is emotionally unacceptable to the BPD (I am unlovable) is unconsciously rejected and attributed (projected) to others  (they are unlovable).

Some times the projection is quite obvious,   like some one who has difficulty with reality testing, has trouble with complex truths,  does not have a well defined ability to be honest, will turn around and accuse others of lying. 

 

I have wondered this a bit. He feels so strongly and can relate eating a second helping of peas to being a slut. I just don’t get it.

And how can he think she still loves him (and I believe he thinks secretly they will get back together) but still be ashamed of it?

my guess is that it's more complicated than that.    Sex and sexual entitlement is; as Empath said; one of those areas where shame and purity becomes molten lava hot.    Shame is a painful emotion  caused by the belief that one is, or is perceived by others to be, inferior or unworthy of affection or respect.   He seems to be recreating a fictitious world where he is sexually more pure.     and so are the people around him.      that's pretty loaded stuff.     what ever is driving him, (which may never be possible to know) is a lot deeper than he thinks she still loves him.    I hope that I explained that sufficiently?

He has told me that I am biblically married to my old bf.  He must be married to at least 3 people. Like I can’t even wrap my head around it.

Ohh Ooommppf.    biblically married.    I am... well not fluent but at least competent in the three biblical languages.  Koine is the one I know the least about.   Whenever I see "biblical"  or "biblically based", my eye spin around in my head, and I want to ask,  What on Earth do you think you are saying?   Sorry.   Rant.    Anyhow, the point I am attempting to make is these are deep seated issues that go well beyond who is in love with who and who slept with who.   His hot buttons around food (second helping of peas)  and biblically married point in the direction of some very deep seated stuff.

'ducks

[formflier]

respect.   He seems to be recreating a fictitious world where he is sexually more pure.     and so are the people around him.      that's pretty loaded stuff.     what ever is driving him, (which may never be possible to know) is a lot deeper than he thinks she still loves him.   

There obviously is "value" placed on sexual purity/loyalty.

There seems to be "tension" between what he believes is "the standard", his actual history and his "remembrance" of his actual history.

I would also add that wherever he "learned" this value, it's unlikely that was the only thing he learned in a "dysfunctional" way

So there is a double whammy (or perhaps triple or more) of sex value, other related values, letting someone down, being told he is (blank)..etc etc

All of these things have connections AND are highly emotional.

Plus...adding in "God told me...God says..." and variations on this. 

Best,

FF 

[UBPDHelp]

Make the decision YES!

Tell him he was absentee...NO!

If he doesn't like it give him option for next time, don't debate the past.

Think about what you have learned so far.  I wonder why I would give such advice?

Thanks FF.  It is so hard because some of the big bills are in his name so I feel a bit dubious say asking for a temporary extension, but also don’t want to get thrown out. He won’t discuss with me and if I bring up now will bring out his rage. I don’t know what he thinks is being done other than he thinks I’m going to spend my money. I feel like I’m trying to save us, but how could I prove it?

I hear you about not saying absentee but rather giving him the options moving forward.

Thanks for your help. .

[formflier]

Might be wise to start a new thread and list out bills and options, we can kick around the best way forward on them.

Big picture:  If there is an option for your family to retain cash and "get room", I have a hard time imagining that you should pass that up.

Best,

FF

[UBPDHelp]

Hi BabyDucks,

Thank you for continuing to assist. Let me start by saying (much I’m sure you know from experience), things were not always this way.

And, I told him the honest to goodness truth from the start of our r/s. I had no idea that 20+ years later it would become fuel for his rage.

My guess is that it's neither that simple or that benign.    BPD and NPD are both disorders of shame.   at the very core.   

BPD = No one loves me, treats me right, ( I am unlovable) ... it's clearly because they are horrible mean nasty evil people.   

What is emotionally unacceptable to the BPD (I am unlovable) is unconsciously rejected and attributed (projected) to others  (they are unlovable).

Some times the projection is quite obvious,   like some one who has difficulty with reality testing, has trouble with complex truths,  does not have a well defined ability to be honest, will turn around and accuse others of lying.

I can see this but certainly would not believe he felt unlovable. He thinks he’s the greatest catch of all time.

He also is not much of an out and out liar — like he doesn’t say he was somewhere he wasn’t, etc.

But more of a gaslighting kind of delusional lying — what I think, the kids think, why I did something, taking credit for things I do, blaming me for things he did, blah blah.

Two points here —

1. I was always so honest. Would just speak the truth. Sometimes he would get mad and ask why I told someone one of the kids did something bad/embarrassing, etc. (just easy example I can think of, but there are others). He very much likes the “appearance” of everything is perfect.  In conjunction with this, he also has a big thing about people putting on “shows”. Anyone who might get positive attention was doing it just for attention. And yet, he is the most conceited putting on a show person. It’s weird.

2. Now, I feel like I’ve become somewhat dishonest. Like, I might not tell him right away about an issue — unexpected bill, kid getting a bad grade — because I know the reaction I’m going to get. Ultimately I would tell him after mustering the courage and finding the “right” time. Sometimes I knew the kids punishment would be too severe (he has NOT physically punished them). So now I feel worse than he does in this regard. It wasn’t always this way, but over the last however many years he just had such a short fuse I just kept trying to avoid setting him off. Self preservation = bad decisions.

  my guess is that it's more complicated than that.    Sex and sexual entitlement is; as Empath said; one of those areas where shame and purity becomes molten lava hot.    Shame is a painful emotion  caused by the belief that one is, or is perceived by others to be, inferior or unworthy of affection or respect.   He seems to be recreating a fictitious world where he is sexually more pure.     and so are the people around him.      that's pretty loaded stuff.     what ever is driving him, (which may never be possible to know) is a lot deeper than he thinks she still loves him.    I hope that I explained that sufficiently?

Yes, definite double standard. He was 16 and dated for a year before. I was 18 and dated for 3 years before. His gf right before we started wanted to wait for marriage. When we started dating she told him he wouldn’t like dating someone who hadn’t waited. I’m sure she was throwing jealousy but he’s held onto this too.

Ohh Ooommppf.    biblically married.    I am... well not fluent but at least competent in the three biblical languages.  Koine is the one I know the least about.   Whenever I see "biblical"  or "biblically based", my eye spin around in my head, and I want to ask,  What on Earth do you think you are saying?   Sorry.   Rant.    Anyhow, the point I am attempting to make is these are deep seated issues that go well beyond who is in love with who and who slept with who.   His hot buttons around food (second helping of peas)  and biblically married point in the direction of some very deep seated stuff.

Yes, deep seated. The biblical stuff only started getting tossed around 5-7 years ago, fairly infrequently. There was a big financial setback for him then and thinking back that may have also been a trigger as it impacted his job. It is demented. I’d love to share the content of the messages he sends but I’m sure they are rated xxx and would scar all but the most hardened of souls.

Thank you again for your help.

[UBPDHelp]

Hi FF,

There obviously is "value" placed on sexual purity/loyalty.

There seems to be "tension" between what he believes is "the standard", his actual history and his "remembrance" of his actual history.

I would also add that wherever he "learned" this value, it's unlikely that was the only thing he learned in a "dysfunctional" way

So there is a double whammy (or perhaps triple or more) of sex value, other related values, letting someone down, being told he is (blank)..etc etc

All of these things have connections AND are highly emotional.

Plus...adding in "God told me...God says..." and variations on this. 

Thanks. Yes, agree there is dysfunctional learning. His mom his very religious. She married at 18, but was virginal.  Why marry so young?  So you can uphold your “values” and still have sex as that r/s was bad from get go.

In this religious household, he and his siblings were all having sex by 16-17. Why do I know this?  One got caught with her bf, one ran off and got pregnant at 16 and the other had an std at 17. Didn’t need to know any of this. So stellar job holding everyone to the morals you don’t hold yourself to.

I was raised also in the church and none of us have these judgmental hang ups.

It is painful to say the least dealing with this. And, again, how easily he can discard a 25 year marriage without another word or looking back.

How to save myself and my kids?  Primary goal.

[babyducks]

Yes, agree there is dysfunctional learning.

I was raised also in the church and none of us have these judgmental hang ups.

I'm not sure that I have this post crafted quite the way I want to say it.    We may have to tweak it, to better language.     Let me throw this out there.

You tend to equate his behavior to standard, normal, typical behavior.    or measure against standard, normal, typical behavior.   He is not there.     

It's not normal to lock yourself in a bedroom and not change your clothes for 1.5 weeks.    It's not normal to suddenly walk away from a career that you have worked in for 20 years.     It's not normal to accuse someone of being a slut because they ate a second helping of peas.

I'm not trying to be harsh.   

his reality is distorted.    IMHO these aren't judgmental hangs ups he is displaying.    these are symptoms of serious mental illness.

this is horribly painful to have to deal with.    terribly difficult.    no one wants their spouse to have a mental illness.   it's emotionally excruciating.    and yet if we don't label it for what it is... we can't protect ourselves and our loved ones.

you are doing such great work.    you are sailing right into the teeth of this.     hang in there.    And do something nice for yourself today.

'ducks