After The Storm

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

It's been a while since I was on these boards and I feel it is time to report back on my journey through a stormy year. The recap is that I  broke up from my wife and the relationship that turned me away from my marriage ended in rancour round about August. Those who followed my story may remember that my brother in law died last summer and then my father died in February this year. That all adds up to a terrible year of sadness. On top of that the second AA woman who was providing my shoulder to cry on at first decided she was in love with me and no matter what I said or did she would not take no for an answer. Now she has done a complete reversal and we have had no contact for a few days. I may also be facing some legal issues.

Skip prophesised the last time I was here that things will get worse before they get better. That has played on my mind all through my awful year and now I find myself in more trouble than just relationships, I realise my self awareness may have come too late. I don't know yet. Only time will tell. Lockdown was easier with my new friend as I was staying at her place for six weeks (my tenant was living at my place and had his baby and ex partner coming over from time to time and I didn't want to take any risk) but my friend was unable to deal with my continuing grief over my ex and my inability to fall for her and then I eventually came back to my place. My tenant was such a slob that I had cause to reproach him over hygiene and he promptly told me he was leaving during lockdown. I didn't argue. I thought spending some time on my own would give me some healing time. Turns out it wasn't such a great idea with so much time on my hands.

On the positive side I finally started therapy on Thursday and my first session was a good one. I think it's going to help me enormously if I'm able to continue with it. I have made some discoveries about myself and the nature of my addictive behaviour and I frankly don't recognise the person I have become. It has been suggested to me (not by the therapist) that I may have BPD myself. For the first time in my life I am starting to see how this may be possible. I don't know and certainly don't want to start diagnosing myself but my recent troubles have put alot of things into perspective.

Hope everybody is keeping safe and well.

RF

[RomanticFool]

It's been a while since I was on these boards and I feel it is time to report back on my journey through a stormy year. The recap is that I  broke up from my wife and the relationship that turned me away from my marriage ended in rancour round about August. Those who followed my story may remember that my brother in law died last summer and then my father died in February this year. That all adds up to a terrible year of sadness. On top of that the second AA woman who was providing my shoulder to cry on at first decided she was in love with me and no matter what I said or did she would not take no for an answer. Now she has done a complete reversal and we have had no contact for a few days. I may also be facing some legal issues.

Skip prophesised the last time I was here that things will get worse before they get better. That has played on my mind all through my awful year and now I find myself in more trouble than just relationships, I realise my self awareness may have come too late. I don't know yet. Only time will tell. Lockdown was easier with my new friend as I was staying at her place for six weeks (my tenant was living at my place and had his baby and ex partner coming over from time to time and I didn't want to take any risk) but my friend was unable to deal with my continuing grief over my ex and my inability to fall for her and then I eventually came back to my place. My tenant was such a slob that I had cause to reproach him over hygiene and he promptly told me he was leaving during lockdown. I didn't argue. I thought spending some time on my own would give me some healing time. Turns out it wasn't such a great idea with so much time on my hands.

On the positive side I finally started therapy on Thursday and my first session was a good one. I think it's going to help me enormously if I'm able to continue with it. I have made some discoveries about myself and the nature of my addictive behaviour and I frankly don't recognise the person I have become. It has been suggested to me (not by the therapist) that I may have BPD myself. For the first time in my life I am starting to see how this may be possible. I don't know and certainly don't want to start diagnosing myself but my recent troubles have put alot of things into perspective.

Hope everybody is keeping safe and well.

RF

[Gemsforeyes]

Hey RF-

It’s good to see you back, but I know and I’m sorry... I know you don’t come here because you feel “good”.  That’s not what I mean.

Please listen and really SEE, just because you may see things in yourself now that you didn’t see or understand before doesn’t mean that’s bad.  It could be GREAT.  It WILL be great, RF.  For finally getting close to the day where you come to understand yourself and how you relate, respond and react in relationships.  How you react in your own body.  I’m older than you and this experience with (now ex-FINALLY) uBPD/NPD bf brought me to my real awareness.

I’m of the mindset that there are lots of people here with traits (some BPD, some NPD) ... I’m one of them... and I remember the day in therapy when I blurted it out.  I had been thinking i had some BPD traits for months.  Not diagnosable, but BPD traits, yes...  and I started laughing.  Then cried.  Then things began to make a whole lot of sense.

PLEASE don’t give up on yourself, RF.  You are so worth this effort.  So worth it.

I know you’ve have a hard hard year.  These are the times that bring us to our knees.  Force us to slow down and look into our own eyes.  Some quiet time will help set you on your path for your real healing.  Don’t give up on you.  

Warmly,
Gems

[JNChell]

How is your wife coping with her cancer? It sounds like you’ve found a solid therapist. Has your therapist suggested BPD, or are you self diagnosing? Self awareness never comes too late, my friend. The swamp can be heavy to trudge through. What is it that you feel too late about?

Legitimate therapists won’t diagnose an addict with BPD because the chemical manipulation doesn’t allow the therapist to see the sober person. Makes sense to me. How about you? Addicts often act like borderlines and narcissists. It’s a selfish way of life. No judgement, I’m working through my own issues.

What are the legal issues? Just spill them. You’re right, Skip was the best guide that you had. I read it all. You’ve come back for help again. Are you ready to go to work on your issues, or have you come back to argue?

[RomanticFool]

Hey JNChell,

Thanks for your message.

My wife hasn't got cancer, it was my father, and he passed away in February. My wife is very happy with her new love and we are friends.

I'm being open-minded about everything. I think addiction is essentially narcissistic in nature and indeed many addicts may have personality disorder traits - or not. One thing for sure is that we all need help.

I never came in here just to argue, I was always in great pain. I don't want to talk about the legal issue because at the moment it's all hypothetical.

RF

[Skip]

On top of that the second AA woman who was providing my shoulder to cry on at first decided she was in love with me and no matter what I said or did she would not take no for an answer. Now she has done a complete reversal and we have had no contact for a few days.

Is this the women from Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous?

Skip prophesised the last time I was here that things will get worse before they get better.

Sympathized. 

Solving old relationships problems with new relationships never works very well, RM. I think you have seen that in the last 2 relationships and understand it intellectually, but the draw of "being loved" and the excitement of "limerence" (your term) have been the hallmark of your decade long struggles.  Connecting you logical brain to your emotional brain, living in wisemind, is the answer. You know that too.

These last two relationships, you, yourself, tagged as ill advised before they started. Any you cautiously ventured in thinking "I'm smarter this time"... and then...

Stay the course, RM. Hang out here for a while. Try to hear what others are saying.

You can get out of this struggle that you have been in... but you will need to live life differently. You will need to make hard decision when easier decisions are lying before you.

You say there is legal trouble. Can you just give us working knowledge? Tell us the category (sexual, theft, fraud, tax, injury, etc) so we can help you with it.

[RomanticFool]

Is this the women from Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous?

She has been to that fellowship but is really in AA. I didn't intend on forming a relationship with her and there was no limerence at all this time around. However, we did sleep together and then she became very attached to me in the way that I do when I'm really into somebody. I tried to be honest and kind but it didn't work as she knew I was backing out and turned the emotional volume up. I told her that we needed to keep the intensity level low and that I was still grieving 2 deaths and 2 failed relationships. We were together during lockdown and had a nice time for much of it, I cooked dinner quite a bit and we played Scrabble. During our daily exercise walks she would grill me about my feelings and whether I felt I could ever fall in love with her. I told her that I needed to deal with my feelings for my ex and then I would know. I tried really hard to be empathetic and understanding towards her but she kept applying emotional pressure and, like I normally do, I reacted emotionally myself at times. She then said I was not understanding her and that I wasn't being empathetic. I said I was really trying my best and asked her to keep things calm. In the end she wasn't happy with the situation and was becoming more and more emotional herself. The words 'emotional abuse' were mentioned by her. Instead of overreacting, this time I reasoned with her and we analysed why it felt like emotional abuse. She said that I didn't react well to her, that my manner was difficult (not aggressive) and that I wasn't fulfilling her emotional needs. I agreed with her that much of that was true and said I didn't mean to hurt her or emotionally abuse her. She then said that was too strong a word. From my perspective it seemed that she felt hurt because I had been honest about my feelings. She kept saying that she gave me everything.

I have approached things differently and instead of reacting emotionally I have been talking to her a great deal about how she is and constantly apologising for hurting her. I have not negated her feelings but I have been consistent about my feelings and said that I didn't want to lie about anything anymore. She appreciated this and we are now friends in our own separate houses.

These last two relationships, you, yourself, tagged as ill advised before they started. Any you cautiously ventured in thinking "I'm smarter this time"... and then...

Yeah, I'm not smart at all. What I am now is honest. I knew she was hurting but she agreed that being together during lockdown was better for her than being alone. When I saw she was struggling to cope emotionally, I gave her the space she needed. In all honesty, I think she was a kind and caring woman but has the same issues as myself and my ex. Because I wasn't triggered by her, I probably seemed emotionally cold and this is what hurt her. Not having her love returned does feel like abuse when I'm living in her house and sharing her bed. I owned it with her and have continued to apologise.

Stay the course, RM. Hang out here for a while. Try to hear what others are saying.

I am better at listening than I was. I am not in the same emotional pain I have been, though the legal issue has caused turmoil for me and those around me. I have PMed you about that and I am unfortunately not able to talk about it here.

You can get out of this struggle that you have been in... but you will need to live life differently. You will need to make hard decision when easier decisions are lying before you.

For the first time in my life I don't want a relationship. Certain women find me both charming and damaging for them. Until I get to the bottom of what's going on for me, I don't want to be in a relationship. I need to be able to think with a clear head at the moment and any form of relationship is out of the question at the moment. I have started doing intensive meditation and have spoken to people who are qualified therapists in AA who have not advised me as they said that was for my therapist to do but have given me insights that have been useful. I'm doing the hard work plus my ex wife and I are about to commence divorce proceedings.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hey RF-

You know, as difficult as it can feel to be alone with our thoughts for extended periods, sometimes that’s the only way to really get to the heart of matters... to get to where the healing begins. 

And you’re wise, really wise to steer clear of a romantic relationship for the present; because it IS time for you to come to understand yourself - Your motivations and what drives your emotions.  Don’t you think?

I do want to say one thing, and this is not a criticism, my friend.  We’ve got to be sure that our words and actions align.  We see, hear and experience one thing and another person may experience something of a completely different color.  So with the woman who you spent a portion of quarantine with ... and telling her you did not have romantic feelings toward her... well, by sleeping with her, she went with that and NOT your words.  Therefore she continued to “push” you.  You see?  So “next” time, if you pay closer attention to the person you’re spending time with, READ her, and then decide (in Wisemind) if that intimacy is perhaps not the thing to do?  Her feelings are NOT yours.  Not even in that moment.

Finally, I think it’s important to learn who’s “safe” to share details of your past romantic pain with... and by this I mean it’s got to be with people who don’t “want anything” from you in a future romantic sense.  At least that’s how I see it.  I just don’t find that to be a solid ground for building a future on.  You didn’t want to do this.  But she did.  And that raises questions and little flapping red flags in MY mind.

Anyway, I’m so glad you’re here.  And I am so so sorry for the loss of your dad, RF.  So sorry.

I hope you have a chance to look at those videos I suggested.

Warmly,
Gems

[JNChell]

RF. I apologize and am very sorry about the loss of your dad. I watched my mom die from cancer. I can’t really describe my feelings when it comes to that. She was so awful and it was really confusing to see her in a hospice bed. Weak, vulnerable and needing help to die as comfortably as she could. I held her hand when her heart stopped. To this day, I still don’t know why. She didn’t deserve it.

When I read your posts before you coming back here, it looked like somebody that was trying to tear themselves apart. Perhaps I misinterpreted your message, but you seemed very destructive. Perhaps you’re at a higher altitude now and can see things with a new perspective. If so .

The thing is, you gotta clue us in on the legal stuff. How do expect to navigate that? Why would you bring it up to only make it a carrot? What is going on with you?

[RomanticFool]

JNChell,

Thank you for your condolences. It’s been a very difficult time to be sure. My condolences for your mother. I also watched my mother die of lung cancer in a hospice and it is heartbreaking. It’s a truly terrible disease.

I’ve realised how self destructive my behaviour actually is, perhaps too late to save me.

I can’t tell you about the legal issues as my lawyer told me I can’t talk about it.

RF