Emotional catharsis

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Last night I have experienced one of the strongest emotional reactions in a long time. For months I have been suppressing and silencing my emotions in order to keep relative peace on quarantine for the sake of the children. Undiagnosed husband was watching the news, as America was burning in flames; he was experiencing mixed episode (now looking back I understand that). His delusions about the end of the world seemed in context. He was narrating and the next major city was overtaken by riots - “they are going to start slaughtering the pigs” (referring to police force). He took the tragic racial pattern and made it fit into his reality. As opposed to recognizing the unrest to injustice, discrimination and violence that is racially induced, according to him it’s because America is waking up and they recognize that the world (economic) can not continue like that. According to him we were watching the revolution begin. All the while I asked him not to laugh and cheer at the police officers being hurt. They are somebody’s children, sons and husbands, fathers that don’t necessarily share the political views of the ruling party. They are there out of the necessity and although the original crime was committed by the perpetrators inside of the rank, it doesn’t equate all of them being bad. It certainly doesn’t warrant for the violent retaliation from the mobs. Again, he kept on cheering and laughing for every police causality, “I hate cops”, “finally the pigs will die”. Mind you, in close to 20 years o hav known him, Police never did anything to warrant this level of hatred. He then proceeded to say “I’m a violent person, I like violence”. This repeated about four times.i fixed late night snack and called for everyone to eat. As kids sat down he looked at the meal being served and refused since he “didn’t like it and will not eat it”. While we were eating, he was repeatedly entering the kitchen and saying “see, another cop down”, cheering for the crowd. He completely twisted the reality of Americans being tired of racism and police brutality, racial profiling and while privilege. Instead it became part of his plan, related to the end of the world. (I see it as the begging of the better world, although another tragedy occurred, it sparked unity and solidarity to stand against racism). Our working puppy is highly intuitive, any kind of agitation is causing him to wind up and start acting out. Last night was no exception. As undiagnosed husband was watching The riots  and giggling, the new puppy was trying I nib at the mature dog we have had for many years. Instead of attending to that and disciplining the puppy, he just held the other dog on his lap and periodically yelled “no”, thus encouraging the “play” puppy was engaged in. It did not end well, the pup bit him in the groin area, while trying to the dog on undiagnosed husband’s lap. The pup got smacked on the face and retreated, while undiagnosed husband was yelling that the dog is crazy and we need another trainer. At that moment I lost it, I told him that I was his fault for not attending and that I will not let him exercise corporal punishment with the animal. It quickly took another turn, things that were safely compartmentalized surfaced and came out of my mouth. I told him that I did not consent or sign up to this crazy negativity, that he is perpetually in a bad mood, that he only gets excited for tragedies and negative events, that he did not do anything for this marriage, that he has not tried to do anything nice for me. That I was tired to go through the motion of waking up, seeing him and his needs through and never be able to hold a conversation or voice my own needs. That I wanted to be hugged and held, that I wanted to feel loved and have something to look forward to. At the end I was yelling that I wanted to live in positivity and hope for better future. He did not resurface from the phone screen, instead telling me to “f” off and that I was a stupid fool, not to get anywhere near him as he was done with me. My mother ran and interfered, she took me out, as the situation was escalating and there was a high probability for reactional  violence. I started crying and he told me to go cry for another week, because he was going to make me miserable. At that point I left and called a friend to try and make sense of how could my composure slip. I deeply regret this, but this level of emotional abuse is intolerable. I slept alone with the pup, while undiagnosed husband took the couch. I have nowhere to go, I’m completely dependent on him financially, it’s quarantine and the situation is pretty unstable. Yet, I have hope that one day things will be better.

[snowglobe]

Last night I have experienced one of the strongest emotional reactions in a long time. For months I have been suppressing and silencing my emotions in order to keep relative peace on quarantine for the sake of the children. Undiagnosed husband was watching the news, as America was burning in flames; he was experiencing mixed episode (now looking back I understand that). His delusions about the end of the world seemed in context. He was narrating and the next major city was overtaken by riots - “they are going to start slaughtering the pigs” (referring to police force). He took the tragic racial pattern and made it fit into his reality. As opposed to recognizing the unrest to injustice, discrimination and violence that is racially induced, according to him it’s because America is waking up and they recognize that the world (economic) can not continue like that. According to him we were watching the revolution begin. All the while I asked him not to laugh and cheer at the police officers being hurt. They are somebody’s children, sons and husbands, fathers that don’t necessarily share the political views of the ruling party. They are there out of the necessity and although the original crime was committed by the perpetrators inside of the rank, it doesn’t equate all of them being bad. It certainly doesn’t warrant for the violent retaliation from the mobs. Again, he kept on cheering and laughing for every police causality, “I hate cops”, “finally the pigs will die”. Mind you, in close to 20 years o hav known him, Police never did anything to warrant this level of hatred. He then proceeded to say “I’m a violent person, I like violence”. This repeated about four times.i fixed late night snack and called for everyone to eat. As kids sat down he looked at the meal being served and refused since he “didn’t like it and will not eat it”. While we were eating, he was repeatedly entering the kitchen and saying “see, another cop down”, cheering for the crowd. He completely twisted the reality of Americans being tired of racism and police brutality, racial profiling and while privilege. Instead it became part of his plan, related to the end of the world. (I see it as the begging of the better world, although another tragedy occurred, it sparked unity and solidarity to stand against racism). Our working puppy is highly intuitive, any kind of agitation is causing him to wind up and start acting out. Last night was no exception. As undiagnosed husband was watching The riots  and giggling, the new puppy was trying I nib at the mature dog we have had for many years. Instead of attending to that and disciplining the puppy, he just held the other dog on his lap and periodically yelled “no”, thus encouraging the “play” puppy was engaged in. It did not end well, the pup bit him in the groin area, while trying to the dog on undiagnosed husband’s lap. The pup got smacked on the face and retreated, while undiagnosed husband was yelling that the dog is crazy and we need another trainer. At that moment I lost it, I told him that I was his fault for not attending and that I will not let him exercise corporal punishment with the animal. It quickly took another turn, things that were safely compartmentalized surfaced and came out of my mouth. I told him that I did not consent or sign up to this crazy negativity, that he is perpetually in a bad mood, that he only gets excited for tragedies and negative events, that he did not do anything for this marriage, that he has not tried to do anything nice for me. That I was tired to go through the motion of waking up, seeing him and his needs through and never be able to hold a conversation or voice my own needs. That I wanted to be hugged and held, that I wanted to feel loved and have something to look forward to. At the end I was yelling that I wanted to live in positivity and hope for better future. He did not resurface from the phone screen, instead telling me to “f” off and that I was a stupid fool, not to get anywhere near him as he was done with me. My mother ran and interfered, she took me out, as the situation was escalating and there was a high probability for reactional  violence. I started crying and he told me to go cry for another week, because he was going to make me miserable. At that point I left and called a friend to try and make sense of how could my composure slip. I deeply regret this, but this level of emotional abuse is intolerable. I slept alone with the pup, while undiagnosed husband took the couch. I have nowhere to go, I’m completely dependent on him financially, it’s quarantine and the situation is pretty unstable. Yet, I have hope that one day things will be better.

[Cat Familiar]

What specifically do you hope for?

[snowglobe]

What specifically do you hope for?

For him to start receiving medical treatment, to get on medication, to receive psychotherapy and for this crazy talk to cease.

[Cat Familiar]

Do you think it’s likely that he will be cooperative and follow through with therapy and medication?

[formflier]

So...if you guys had taken the puppy to the shelter when that idea was first brought up.

I wonder what this incident would have been like?

Now that the puppy has been smacked around, does that change your view on keeping the puppy?

Best,

FF

[snowglobe]

So...if you guys had taken the puppy to the shelter when that idea was first brought up.

I wonder what this incident would have been like?

Now that the puppy has been smacked around, does that change your view on keeping the puppy?

Best,

FF

Ff, I am conflicted on the puppy. On one hand undiagnosed husband invest large amounts of time into the pup. He plays with him, sleeps with him, trains him and looks after him. Then the other side of the illness resurfaces and he reacts abruptly, doing something unpredictable, like what happened that night. In regards to shelter- the unknown regarding his fate frightens me. What if he gets it worse then what he has here? Also, in order to rehome him, I need undiagnosed husband’s consent, and he is not giving it. This is his guard dog. The situation would be different if he wasn’t there, they puppy, I would just leave the room and not hear the nonsense. Pup creates a situation when I stick around undiagnosed husband to protect him and help undiagnosed husband care for him.

[ct21218]

Snowglobe, I think you and your family are so conditioned by your husband's abuse that you are unable to see how bad this situation is.  It does not matter if your husband is nice to the dog some of the time, in fact the unpredictability of his behavior is worse.  The dog needs structure and to trust humans.  This situation is a time bomb and the puppy is either going to get hurt or the puppy will lash out at humans and get a death sentence.  Most breeders will take back a dog.  You will not get your money back, but the safety of this dog is more important.  If that doesn't work, the trainer may know someone looking for a similar dog.  You have options here and to keep the dog because you are afraid of your husband's reaction says a lot.  This is not a safe situation for humans or animals.

[formflier]

It was not a safe situation before the dog.  Now it is much more volatile.

Best

FF

[Cat Familiar]

You had an eye opening session with the psychologist who has known your family for a number of years. His prognosis for your husband was not favorable and at the time, you seemed to understand and accept what he said.

You don’t have an independent means of support and the pandemic certainly limits options for making a major life change. It’s understandable that you are biding your time right now.

What concerns me is what appears to be wishful thinking on your part: wishing that your husband would accept treatment and medication and would get better AND wishing that a puppy who is bred to be a guard dog and is treated cruelly intermittently and not properly trained will turn out to not be a dangerous and unreliable animal.

How have your hopes aligned with reality so far?

[WitzEndWife]

This is SO interesting to me because my BPDh has been doing the SAME things, but on the other side of the spectrum. He keeps saying with BLM, "scratch the surface of a peaceful protest and you'll find terrorism." I said, "So, what, do you think people shouldn't be allowed to protest peacefully?" And he said, "Well, I don't make the policies, so I can't make that recommendation." Yet, everything he says implies he wants to shut down people's 1A rights and because I say people have a right to protest and a right to be angry and that things aren't worth the same as human lives, he calls me a "terrorist sympathizer" and rages at me. For the past two days, he's been harassing me by incessantly texting me examples of protestors doing violent things and bringing it up whenever we're in the same room. I have done my best to not engage there and to try to remain neutral, but he'll catch me off guard sometimes and we'll get into it. He's threatened to divorce me several times, and every time, I just casually and neutrally say, "Okay," but of course he never leaves.

Last night he slept on the sofa. I FINALLY got a decent night's sleep because he wasn't up next to me, feverishly searching for propaganda online. When he woke up, he didn't even say one word to me and he hasn't texted me anything all day. I'm wondering if this means he's really breaking ties with me, which TBH would be a relief. I doubt it, but I'm hopeful.

I understand how you feel though. My H calls me all sorts of names if I don't want to "admit" he is right - about what, I have NO clue. I keep asking him what the big picture goal is, what is the purpose of sending me all of this. He has no idea. It's probably another way to engage me. The whole idea of "even negative attention is good attention." I suspect your H is doing the same with you. If you never engaged or never cared about his radical views, then he probably wouldn't make such an effort to rub it in your face. I know the best mode of action is to remain neutral and try to avoid conflict, but that is certainly easier said than done, especially under these circumstances.

[Notwendy]

What you witnessed was how your H views this situation. You saw it your way, he sees it his way. You want him to see it your way, and hope he changes, gets diagnosed, treatment and becomes the compassionate man you want him to be.

The topic of radical acceptance is discussed here. This doesn't mean you find your H's point of view or his behavior acceptable. It means you realize that- he is who he is, he thinks what he thinks, and while you can wish and hope he would think like you do, he isn't you. He's himself.

Maya Angelou said- when someone shows you who they are, believe them.

This is who he is. You've seen this before. He's expressed antisemitism, so perhaps the idea of racism being something terrible isn't in his mindset. He's cheering at people getting hurt, and even stated his approval of violence- which he has acted on at home with his family and the puppy.

You got upset, because you don't approve of his perspective, and you want him to be different.

I don't have an answer to what to do. He is who he is. Trying to change another person doesn't work well. Many couples have different opinions, different politics even. But hopefully they have some core values in common that they can agree on.

Our boundaries include a decision about what we can tolerate in a partner when we have differences. No two people are alike. They also include our deal breakers- what is intollerable to us, personally. Your H's feelings about the protests bothered you, him hitting the puppy bothered you. I don't know if that's a deal breaker for you or not, but it doesn't seem to be.

We don't post "run" messages here because, what people tolerate and what is a deal breaker is different for everyone, and each relationship has pros and cons. We can't judge from the outside. Since you are still with your H, and you still have the pup, from what I can see- these are not deal breakers. Nor is anything he said or did last night a deal breaker for you, even if it horrified you.

Your H has his own mind and his own thoughts-regardless of if anyone agrees with him or not.

[formflier]

  He's cheering at people getting hurt, and even stated his approval of violence- which he has acted on at home with his family and the puppy.
 

Did you ever have a follow up conversation with the counselor/psychologist that had given you such strong advice recently?

My memory of the posts were that the P perhaps didn't understand the full extent and history of assaults by your hubby on people living with him.


Best,

FF

[Notwendy]

I think one issue- for WEW and Snowglobe- is boundaries. We can start with the husbands- the pwBPD.  With poor boundaries, it's not easy for them to tolerate differences in opinion. You two need to be thinking the same. A disagreement can feel threatening and personal. They may also have black and white thinking and not be able to see "both sides of the story" or different aspects of a complicated situation.


Consider that- politics can be an inflammatory discussion, even between people who do not have a disorder, how much harder would it be to discuss this with someone with BPD?

We are in distressing times right now. Due to the pandemic - people are cooped up together, their routines disrupted and there are multiple stresses. It's an election year and people are polarized- and now highly emotional over the murder of George Floyd.

From the non point of view- I think we tend to have poor boundaries too. We want our partners to be what we want them to be- emotionally competent, compassionate. We want them to see things the way we see them. But they are their own unique individuals. The only choice we have is what to do about it.

I don't want to hear someone ranting at the TV either. So my choices are- leave the room and not listen to it. Don't answer the phone or texts. Ranting at the TV isn't a crime though. Physical assault is- and the choice is to ignore it or report it. Another choice is to decide to not discuss politics or emotionally charged current events with a BPD person as it may be too much of an inlammatory topic.

[snowglobe]

What you witnessed was how your H views this situation. You saw it your way, he sees it his way. You want him to see it your way, and hope he changes, gets diagnosed, treatment and becomes the compassionate man you want him to be.

The topic of radical acceptance is discussed here. This doesn't mean you find your H's point of view or his behavior acceptable. It means you realize that- he is who he is, he thinks what he thinks, and while you can wish and hope he would think like you do, he isn't you. He's himself.

Maya Angelou said- when someone shows you who they are, believe them.

This is who he is. You've seen this before. He's expressed antisemitism, so perhaps the idea of racism being something terrible isn't in his mindset. He's cheering at people getting hurt, and even stated his approval of violence- which he has acted on at home with his family and the puppy.

You got upset, because you don't approve of his perspective, and you want him to be different.

I don't have an answer to what to do. He is who he is. Trying to change another person doesn't work well. Many couples have different opinions, different politics even. But hopefully they have some core values in common that they can agree on.

Our boundaries include a decision about what we can tolerate in a partner when we have differences. No two people are alike. They also include our deal breakers- what is intollerable to us, personally. Your H's feelings about the protests bothered you, him hitting the puppy bothered you. I don't know if that's a deal breaker for you or not, but it doesn't seem to be.

We don't post "run" messages here because, what people tolerate and what is a deal breaker is different for everyone, and each relationship has pros and cons. We can't judge from the outside. Since you are still with your H, and you still have the pup, from what I can see- these are not deal breakers. Nor is anything he said or did last night a deal breaker for you, even if it horrified you.

Your H has his own mind and his own thoughts-regardless of if anyone agrees with him or not.

Wendy,
I appreciate the radical acceptance angle. I’m still struggling to fully accept the level of distorted thinking. Due to Covid situation appoints are unpredictable, so after the initial assessment of the situation the overseeing psychologist wasn’t able to meet. I’m awaiting for the consecutive session this week. Violence is absolutely not acceptable for me, racism isn’t acceptable (he was cheering not for the racism but for the police force to get hurt specifically. He hates police and authority in general and was happy to see many officers down and hurting. He wants the civilians to start using their constitutional right to start shooting them. Which horrified me. Violence isn’t an answer. He is Christian, so I try to call to his religious morals “an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind”. However his religious views are highly selective. I do believe who is showing me to be though and it turns me off. Of the comorbid diagnoses is indeed bipolar, it explains the volatility and nonsense. He is high in narcissism, according to the psychologist this is where the punishment seeking originates. To be honest, I am now lost more then ever. Unpredictability in economic sector is substantially restraining my trajectory. I need to wait for things to stabilize. My youngest with special needs requires additional support so I can’t act on emotion. I can’t make it on my own today. It does not mean I will not be able to do that in the near future.

[snowglobe]

Did you ever have a follow up conversation with the counselor/psychologist that had given you such strong advice recently?

My memory of the posts were that the P perhaps didn't understand the full extent and history of assaults by your hubby on people living with him.


Best,

FF

Hi Ff, we did not have a session for several weeks, I’m hoping for one this week. I want him to speak to the children as well as me to get a better feel of what was happening. I spoke to the kids and told them I will be one hundred percent honest about what is happening at home. I will not minimize the behaviours. I encouraged them to share their thoughts and feelings in order to cope.

[formflier]

Setting priorities.

I hope you can look at whatever is going on with your schedule that prevents regular sessions with this psychologist.

I'm positive that regular sessions will be a catalyst for change.

Best,

FF

[Notwendy]

I’m still struggling to fully accept the level of distorted thinking.

It doesn't have to be acceptable. Basically, it is what it is- it's impossible to change someone's thinking, whether it is distorted or not.

It takes not being reactive emotionally. Yes, it's upsetting to hear someone we care about saying things that upset us, but they are who they are- they think what they think.

So part of the acceptance is accepting that this is them, this is who they are and accepting that you can not change how someone thinks.

You made a snack- he didn't want to eat it --- OK he's not hungry.

He's ranting at the TV, saying offensive things. You could have left the room and taken the dogs and kids with you and just let him rant. Or separated the dogs so they didn't aggravate each other, and many other things.

Confronting him about his thiking doesn't go well. Why not just let him rant to himself on his own?