Circling the Drain

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I know it's been a while for me here, I have been working with a new T and trying to push myself more aggressively to take action. I've become pretty solid in the knowledge that I want at the least a separation, but, as predicted, the uHwBPD is not making it easy. He raged at me out of absolutely nowhere about a week and a half ago about my politics while I was making him waffles, just screaming, spit flying, throwing things around onto the floor, turning purple. I hid in the bathroom crying until he quit raging. I kept telling him that we needed to separate and that I didn't want to do this anymore. He told me that if I wanted to "get rid of him," I would need to give him a considerable sum of money (ridiculous because I don't have it), and the car we're paying off, because he "won't lower his standard of living" and "live in a s-hole." He also says he's taking the big hound, which again, I'm not sure how he's going to be able to support her since he still isn't working. I feel sickened because it feels like he's holding me hostage (I know there are solutions, but it feels this way). After all of that absolute chaos and rage, he returns back to "normal," and tries to be all lovey dovey like everything is absolutely fine. He screamed at me again today over politics while I was working and now is, of course, coming over and asking me if I want food and rubbing my shoulders. I'm so dead sick of this all I could choke.

I didn't want to have to get aggressive with all of this and force him out, but I'm afraid that's what is going to have to happen. I suppose I'm due to make another appointment with the divorce lawyer I met with a couple of years ago and see what I can do, legally. I am really terrified of doing this and wish he would just accept a separation. I know I can't keep going like this. I need to move on with my life.

[WitzEndWife]

I know it's been a while for me here, I have been working with a new T and trying to push myself more aggressively to take action. I've become pretty solid in the knowledge that I want at the least a separation, but, as predicted, the uHwBPD is not making it easy. He raged at me out of absolutely nowhere about a week and a half ago about my politics while I was making him waffles, just screaming, spit flying, throwing things around onto the floor, turning purple. I hid in the bathroom crying until he quit raging. I kept telling him that we needed to separate and that I didn't want to do this anymore. He told me that if I wanted to "get rid of him," I would need to give him a considerable sum of money (ridiculous because I don't have it), and the car we're paying off, because he "won't lower his standard of living" and "live in a s-hole." He also says he's taking the big hound, which again, I'm not sure how he's going to be able to support her since he still isn't working. I feel sickened because it feels like he's holding me hostage (I know there are solutions, but it feels this way). After all of that absolute chaos and rage, he returns back to "normal," and tries to be all lovey dovey like everything is absolutely fine. He screamed at me again today over politics while I was working and now is, of course, coming over and asking me if I want food and rubbing my shoulders. I'm so dead sick of this all I could choke.

I didn't want to have to get aggressive with all of this and force him out, but I'm afraid that's what is going to have to happen. I suppose I'm due to make another appointment with the divorce lawyer I met with a couple of years ago and see what I can do, legally. I am really terrified of doing this and wish he would just accept a separation. I know I can't keep going like this. I need to move on with my life.

[RolandOfEld]

Hi WitzEndWife, I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through since I've been through all of that myself, the threats and the insanity of trying to reconcile the threats with the sudden kind behavior, like they weren't just wrestling with you on the ground in a city street because you told them you were set on separating (you can see where I understand your feelings of being held hostage). 

Great first action on getting a meeting with the lawyer. Knowing your rights will be crucial. 

I am now close to two months separated from my spouse. While our partners are very different people, I think I guess right when I say your partner will NOT accept a separation from the way things sound, nor will they be willing to move out when they have it so good living off of your support. Which means you'll probably have to do what I did. e.g. put legal protections in place such as restraining order. I could have had my wife kicked out of the house with the PO, but I opted to have a place ready for myself and go first. It was the only way for me to stop being a hostage.

Does any of the above sound feasible to you? I know everyone's housing / financial situation is different. I had to borrow tons of money from my family to make the above happen, but it was worth it to save me and my childrens' lives. But I might be luckier than most. What kind of support system do you have in place? Who is there to back you up when you decide to make the big change, whatever form that takes?

Stay strong!

~Roland

[WitzEndWife]

I'm glad you've gotten out of your situation, Roland. That's great. I'll have to see what options I have at this point through the lawyer. I make all the money and have been the only one paying on this house, so if I leave, it's not like my husband will be able to take over payments. Believe me, if I could just take off somewhere else, I totally would. It would definitely be a lot easier. I've considered going to stay with my parents for a month in Florida while requesting he move out, but I'd be concerned that he would just dig his heels in. I'm betting my lawyer will probably have me get some kind of protective order to get him to vacate the house.

I'll admit, I'm really scared of this part. My H can be really intimidating and scary with his rage and I have little support here. Most of my friends don't know much about my situation because I keep it pretty quiet. I want to proceed in the safest way possible for me. Fingers crossed that I come up with a solution. I hate this.

[formflier]

 

When you were hiding in the bathroom, I'm curious about your thoughts on calling 911?  Same thing for other times when he has broken things, scared you and done other intimidating things.

Hang in there.

Best,

FF

[RolandOfEld]

I make all the money and have been the only one paying on this house, so if I leave, it's not like my husband will be able to take over payments.

Hi WEW, understand this. May I ask do you own the house or is it a rental? Whose name is under either contract? Does your husband have any physical reason not to work? After I moved out I paid the rent in our original apartment for one more month to give her time to adjust to the new situation. I later contacted the landlord and told her my wife would now be taking over the rent. It was a fight to get her to take over it but it seems like she's finally taking the responsibility.

I've considered going to stay with my parents for a month in Florida while requesting he move out, but I'd be concerned that he would just dig his heels in. I'm betting my lawyer will probably have me get some kind of protective order to get him to vacate the house.

I would give this strong consideration. You have a free place to stay and family to help you call the police in case he shows up. You might need to accept that the housing situation will take time to resolve and won't be the first priority. For me it was extremely inconvenient in terms of money and not having access to all of my stuff but it was totally worth it. The first priority should be you getting to a safe situation to proceed with the necessary legal actions. This is very hard to do when you are still living together.

I'll admit, I'm really scared of this part. My H can be really intimidating and scary with his rage and I have little support here. Most of my friends don't know much about my situation because I keep it pretty quiet. I want to proceed in the safest way possible for me.

I totally feel you here. It took me months of planning to find the safest option for me and the kids. Most people don't understand we can't just run off in the middle of the night (even though in the end that's exactly what I did, AFTER I had done everything else). I strongly advise you to open up to as many people as you can. You can't do this alone. I even created "Emergency" chat groups for my friends and coworkers to let them know all at once if I needed help or support.

To quote my counselor, in situations like this we need to find our "ground". Informing my family and friends of the situation and gaining their support, arranging an outside place to live, and applying for the PO, these actions were how I got back my ground. Living with her I was constantly subject to her threats, which held me firmly in place. Once I was out, I could do a lot more. 

Question: what do you have in terms of evidence of his abusive behavior? If you can't leave right away, evidence collecting is definitely something you can get started on. For example, videoing him pounding on the bathroom door while you are locked in there.

~ROE

[WitzEndWife]

When you were hiding in the bathroom, I'm curious about your thoughts on calling 911?  Same thing for other times when he has broken things, scared you and done other intimidating things.

Hang in there.

Best,

FF

I thought about it, but lately the police aren't very responsive to DV issues in my area and I don't want to escalate things for no reason when he's just yelling or throwing things on the ground. I also don't want to draw attention to my situation either with the neighbors. I know that's probably not the right answer, but it's what I thought about.

[WitzEndWife]

Roland - those are all good thoughts. I appreciate the help and suggestions. We have a mortgage, which he is on, even though he doesn't pay anything. He doesn't work simply because he's never had a career or a solid job in his life and he cycles between extreme depression and extreme anxiety, where he will stay in bed all day long and stay up all night. For a while, he was on a decent path of driving Uber and applying to automotive mechanic school and then the pandemic hit and he stayed home. Now he waffles between citing the pandemic and some extreme paranoid delusions about people stabbing him in the back while he's driving or starting a fight with him for no reason.

I have a few videos of him yelling at me, but I have to be careful not to have him see me filming things because he will grab my phone away and threaten to smash it. He has done that several times. I have plenty of diary entries documenting the abuse though, so there's that as well.

I've definitely heard that it's good to let people know what's going on and to have a support system. I know I need to do a better job of that. My closest friends and family are somewhat aware, but if they knew the whole of it, they would be really terrified for me and I don't want to upset them too much.

Things are really tumultuous at work at the moment, so I'm going to try to set up a meeting with the lawyer for a couple of weeks out, but I need to get it on the calendar so that at least I can restart the conversation with them and figure out where I stand.

So, you really ended up getting out in the middle of the night? That must have been scary. I had this idea that we would be able to separate and then grow into a more permanent divorce situation, but he won't even do that and is clinging onto the house and his cushy lifestyle with both hands. Had I only known divorcing him would be this hard, I never would have married him in the first place. Sigh.

[formflier]

  I don't want to escalate things for no reason when he's just yelling or throwing things on the ground.

So...what would get you to call the police?  What would be a good reason?

Best,

FF

[RolandOfEld]

I've definitely heard that it's good to let people know what's going on and to have a support system. I know I need to do a better job of that. My closest friends and family are somewhat aware, but if they knew the whole of it, they would be really terrified for me and I don't want to upset them too much.

One thing I found on my journey is that every time I opened up to more people, a new path forward opened up. Having the confidence of knowing I had one more member on my team for when things got ugly enabled me to do the hard tasks as they got harder. I understand completely the fear of upsetting our loved ones. But I can't describe the immeasurable relief that followed opening up and receiving their understanding and support.  

So, you really ended up getting out in the middle of the night?

I should clarify: I had already secretly found and furnished a new apartment and applied for a protection order. Originally I was planning to do everything after the order came, but one night after she took and hid the remote to my AC (in June and in a subtropical climate!) I suddenly decided I would not live this way for one more night, without basic human comfort and dignity. So after she and the kids went to sleep, I gathering everything I needed into a bag and left in the middle of the night. I notified her the next morning I wouldn't be living there and that I would take full responsibility for the kids. Again, I think this came from the confidence I had after applying for the PO, even though it hadn't arrived yet.

Had I only known divorcing him would be this hard, I never would have married him in the first place. Sigh.

Here's the thing about all the legal stuff / divorce that I'm learning, WEW. Yes, it is really HARD. Besides the emotional strain, every step of the way some unexpected challenge comes up - they suddenly do this or that, the court needs some paperwork I don't have, the protection order comes through but doesn't cover the kids, etc. But I found once I accepted that even though its hard things are still moving forward, I was OK with it. To quote my hero Captain Jean-Luc Picard, "One impossible thing at a time." This is the mentality I'm taking to my situation and its helped a lot. It will take time. But along the way you will still experience growth and new joys you didn't know were possible.

What's your Q list for the lawyer? What answers do you hope to get out of the meeting?

~ROE

[WitzEndWife]

FF - I think honestly if I thought he would hurt me or he tried to hurt me, I would call police, but probably not before then. I know that's a bad answer.

[WitzEndWife]

Roland - Jean Luc FTW!  I'm probably going to ask my lawyer about the house/PO situation, about specific property division questions, and about how much verbal/emotional abuse weighs into the situation - especially if I have documentation.

 I know there's a better life on the other side of this and the thing is, the very thing that probably got me in here is keeping me stuck. I worry about him and I also worry about him rejecting me. It's silly on its face, but I'm codependent, so I'll focus so much on trying not to be rejected and on being needed by the other person that I don't feel like I need to attend to myself. I need to keep finding ways to believe that my needs are just as important as his.

[Cat Familiar]

OK so you wouldn’t have married him if you’d predicted your current reality.

Yet you’re still concerned with his wellbeing. But is he really concerned with yours?

It seems there’s a lot of childhood issues at play here. You’re not viewing his behavior as you would if you didn’t have an issue which tends to lead you to worry about being rejected.

What would happen if you weren’t concerned about being rejected?

[WitzEndWife]

Hmm, if I didn't fear being rejected...it's hard to actually fathom that because of my current vantage point. Like, I think that I care a lot about where he lands and about his wellbeing, but maybe I wouldn't prioritize his wellbeing over mine if I didn't fear being rejected by him.

Obviously he's selfish and really doesn't care about me or my wellbeing. That's clear. I have repeatedly told him what I needed for my own wellbeing and he has not listened or cared. He only does the bare minimum when he thinks his cushy position here is being threatened. Like, yesterday he finally enrolled in classes and he starts on Monday.

I also think I probably keep him around for comfort, as weird as that is. Just having another person in the house, essentially. Even if that person is an energy leeching dark cloud 90 percent of the time.

[I Am Redeemed]

I also think I probably keep him around for comfort, as weird as that is. Just having another person in the house, essentially. Even if that person is an energy leeching dark cloud 90 percent of the time.

That makes sense, believe it or not. I was afraid of being alone for the longest long time. I just felt that I wouldn't be able to do it by myself- even though that made no sense because my ex was causing more problems than he was helping me do stuff.

I've gotten used to it now, nearly three years later. It helped that the first eighteen months I had a roommate. But when I first moved into my own place a year and a half ago, I was afraid. It's gotten better. Having animals helps. Dogs and cats can really help you feel not so alone.

[WitzEndWife]

I do have animals and they do help. I think I do need to face that fear as well, just not having the comfort of having someone else there. I've lived alone before, I can do it again. It's just getting there and all of the fallout.