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grumpydonut
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« on: July 30, 2020, 07:25:34 AM »

Hi all,

So for some background:

Ex left me for man she cheated on me 9 months prior. She left me after promising to work on herself and get better. One of the last things she said was "I can't be in a relationship and have no idea how long I'll need". A month later I find out she's dating the guy.

Anyway, since then I have been pretty sure she has been stalking my profiles (as mentioned). But tonight my friend showed me a message from her. She had pretended to message a co-worker about a work roster.

When my friend said "wrong number" she said "who's this" to which he replied with his name (she knows who he is and has contacted him on this number when we were together).

So, obviously this is attention seeking behaviour. But to what ends? Is she trying to provoke me or what? I still can't understand that she can leave me, completely stonewall me and yet be the one doing the stalking...

Absolute madness.
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FindingMe2011
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« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2020, 09:27:08 AM »

Ex left me for man she cheated on me 9 months prior.

If it is BPD, This r/s never stopped and she actually found another she could string along for supply, the Illness dictates this.

She left me after promising to work on herself and get better.

Sounds as if she tried working on herself, and found the easier path of discarding and replacing, like an object. The illness also dictates this. We all take the path of least resistance, if given the choice, you, me, and even cluster B persons.

One of the last things she said was "I can't be in a relationship and have no idea how long I'll need". A month later I find out she's dating the guy. 

I guess she needed a month. This was the illness keeping supply that it NEEDS.
It allows all to play if they are willing. Its an attachment disorder with never enough attachments. I BPD mind she finally is going to get it right, until she doesnt and he will be discarded, and recycled if he CHOOSES

Anyway, since then I have been pretty sure she has been stalking my profiles (as mentioned)

Thats what the illness does. Checks on you to determine how AVAILABLE you really are.

So, obviously this is attention seeking behaviour. But to what ends?

JMHO, attention seeking is what she did the first time you looked at each other, just as new guy. Shes just checking on supply and this will continue until she realizes there is no supply...So the end is in your court? What will you do?

I still can't understand that she can leave me, completely stonewall me and yet be the one doing the stalking...

Absolute madness.


The above replies explain the illness somewhat. Its not madness. Its the order to the disorder. I wish you well, Peace




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alittleawkward
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« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2020, 11:19:46 AM »

When I talked to my therapist about BPD, she suggested that people with stronger characteristics treat life & partners like a fishing pond. They check the bait every now and again (hence the checking up) and when they are ready they will pull their rods to see who bites. It's a brutal analogy but to me it somewhat makes sense. From my perspective she's checking in on you to see if you'll bite.

When I had similar happen, I asked my friends not to tell me what my ex was doing saying, and I actively tried my best to ignore her actions. Out of sight, out of mind - the easier it is to move on and get out of their bear traps.
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grumpydonut
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« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2020, 08:08:41 AM »

Both really interesting takes.

I do definitely think she is trying to provoke a reaction. In response, I've deleted FB and WhatsApp. I believe that this will cause her distress, and that makes me happy. Not even sorry about that.
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FindingMe2011
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« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2020, 09:23:17 AM »

I do definitely think she is trying to provoke a reaction. In response, I've deleted FB and WhatsApp. I believe that this will cause her distress, and that makes me happy. Not even sorry about that.

For now this will work. You are doing this for revenge as the self appointed persecutor and typical response from narcissistic injury. But this will fade as this is not who you are at the core "real self". This is your false self attempting to stay in charge/controlling. You will find a way to turn this upon yourself and remain stuck...Detachment is the ONLY way to find a new path. It will be a perception of wins and loses. Suffering through this depression and trying to UNDERSTAND them, instead of fearing them, would serve you well, and as long as the the thoughts are not suicidal in nature, its just what the doctor ordered. Learn to investigate your feelings, almost bathe in them, you will find that you will wake up the next morning, as you were not annihilated. Your core is yearning for this understanding. Listen and learn how to take care of you. Its the kind and forgiving thing to do. I wish you well Peace
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FindingMe2011
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« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2020, 10:20:13 AM »

BPD traits are shame based, and a split real self. It cannot stand alone. It NEEDS others to survive... NPD traits are lonely based, and is a shattered real self. But the pieces can be put back together. Which is what people on here are attempting to do, some will make healthier choices, some will package it different, call it different and continue on, wondering why its not working. So when these 2 believe they can heal together, they have no clue, their paths must be different to attain healthier life styles. Maybe this helps, i wish you well Peace
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BlueSpring
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« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2020, 12:10:39 PM »

I've been doing a little reading, and I found out that a pwBPD  needs drama and chaos.  I know that's true from experience.  I also know that they're empty inside.

Right now as I type this, two unopened messages are on my phone from my ex.  Ever since her new boyfriend moved in, she's been contacting me daily, several times a day.

I think it's because she wants to avoid fighting and raging at him, so she tries to provoke me.  Although they've had some violent fights in the month or so that he's been there with water bottles flying and all. 

They don't really want relationships since they run away from anyone who is good to them.  They want the excitement and idealization that comes with a new relationship, until that gets old, then they sabotage it.  Like someone once said, they like getting married, not being married. 

I'm beginning to understand that this is a disorder that requires the patient to admit that they have a problem and do the work themselves.  They have to want help, and until they commit to that, no one can help them. 

This new relationship of hers will hit the rocks.  She's already testing the waters with you, and I'll bet that she has others on the hook as well.
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Skip
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« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2020, 04:20:28 PM »

"I can't be in a relationship and have no idea how long I'll need"

You should write this off to break-up "speak". There is a Seinfield episode about "it's not you, it's me". These things get said to soften the blow, lower the conflict level... they mean nothing.

I have been pretty sure she has been stalking my profiles

But tonight my friend showed me a message from her. She had pretended to message a co-worker about a work roster.

I do definitely think she is trying to provoke a reaction. In response, I've deleted FB and WhatsApp. I believe that this will cause her distress, and that makes me happy. Not even sorry about that.

Let's break it down a bit.

This relationship has been loaded with fatal flaws from the beginning and on both sides. I'm paraphrasing, but this is basically what you are saying here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=344796.msg13112125#msg13112125

It's pretty clear that she has some significant handicaps.

She also said her psychiatrist said she had dysthemic depression, most of the borderline traits, OCD and light autism.)

It's pretty clear she is someone that will require an immense amount of nurturing to be in a relationship with. Something you are not keen on doing.

It's also pretty clear that she was never "the one". You only engaged her to a certain level  (e.g., took her on as a casual sex partner) and them protected yourself.

And then there is this.

Anyway, I wasn't perfect through this period. I knew the relationship was dead, but I also loved her and wanted her back. I wanted her idealising self back.

I want to emotionally hurt her just to get justice, but I know there's no point. ..//.. I cant believe someone could do these things. It doesn't feel real.

I applaud your emotional openness... saying how you feel. It will really help you make sense of this.

This was a really loaded emotional bond that existed between the two of you. It sounds like it was loaded with a lot of baggage that you both brought into the relationship and expressed to each other. Her mental issues are clear.

Going back to the question of breaking it down...

What do you think this relationship was really all about for you? Where was it going? What potential did it hold?

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grumpydonut
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« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2020, 09:35:27 PM »

Hi Skip,

I appreciate you having a thorough look into my situation. Many thanks.

Excerpt
What do you think this relationship was really all about for you? Where was it going? What potential did it hold?

Big question. I loved being loved. But she also said exactly what I wanted. She said she wanted to grow and learn with me, and that material stuff didn't matter. It was about our love for each other through good and bad. And I guess that's all I have ever wanted. Early on, each time I wanted to end things due to red flags, she would say exactly what I wanted to hear. And that kept me in. I didn't know this was mirroring, nor do I even know now how she knew I wanted this. I don't remember articulating it to her. It's almost like she read my soul, ha.

Where it was going? After she cheated, I knew it was over. The bond was too damaged and I can't marry someone who cheated on me. But I wanted to try to make it work. I also think I couldn't accept the cheating for what it was - betrayal that highlighted a lack of true love for me. And she was very convincing. Obviously, after she left me for the guy, I can see that all her words after the event were just an attempt to not feel abandoned, but at the time I really believed it was true love.

As for potential, I thought was accepted and loved. I thought I found someone who didn't care about what I had, but loved me for who I was and would fight through ups and downs.

At the same time, this whole event has triggered my OCD (something I had "beaten" for the 3-4 years prior), so nothing in my head truly works as it did, and I'll never be certain of anything while I'm in this state.
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FindingMe2011
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« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2020, 05:54:48 AM »

But

If the words that follow this word are truthful, its called justification. If the words that follow this word are not truthful, its an excuse or a lie.

But she also said exactly what I wanted. She said she wanted to grow and learn with me, and that material stuff didn't matter. It was about our love for each other through good and bad.

This is yourself ruminating. Just from being here and reading about illnesses, mirroring ect., as you should have another perspective logically...maybe it should read more like...I also said exactly what I wanted. I said I wanted to grow and learn with me, and that material stuff didnt matter. It was about my love for me through good and bad.

I don't remember articulating it to her. It's almost like she read my soul, ha.

Just as you read hers or so you thought. Something tells me, sometimes people bond over perceived pain, its the one thing all disorders have in common, yet they are different. I dont really see much love. But that too appears to be a loaded word. I wish you well, Peace
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grumpydonut
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« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2020, 09:38:27 AM »

Honestly, FindingMe, I know you mean well but I'm growing tired of it being implied that I'm a narcissist or suffering narcissistic injury.

I have issues, yes, and I'm in therapy to work on those. That isn't the same as having NPD or being totally deluded. I didn't fall in love with me, I fell in love with someone I believed wanted the life I also wanted.
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Skip
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« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2020, 10:18:21 AM »

I'm growing tired of it being implied that I'm a narcissist or suffering narcissistic injury.

I haven't read the prior comments in detail, but wanted to comment on this one line... we are all subject to narcissistic injury (a wound to our self worth)... that's not reserved for people with NPD. It's something to learn about. It might be helpful.

Mirroring is normal. It's part of dating and it helps people bond. Extreme mirroring dips into the unhealthy sides of things and when we see others mirroring being about ourselves (rather than about the other person) we set ourselves up.

At the highest levels of emotional intelligence is the ability to know our worth regardless of what one person says about us.

The classic thinking trap is "she loved me so much, how could she do that ___". The answer is "despite her over emoting, her love was tied to how well she felt about the relationship (not how great we were) and when that need wasn't met, she moved on just like anyone would."

I can't marry someone who cheated on me.

Certainly would be a fatal flaw for me, too. I've had to walk away from a few relationships that seemed promising because of something egregious... its important to have boundaries for infidelity, alcohol abuse, theft, etc.

You boundaries sound right.

As for potential, I thought was accepted and loved. I thought I found someone who didn't care about what I had, but loved me for who I was and would fight through ups and downs.

This is powerful. We all want to feel loved.

A thread we see in a lot of these relationships is that our member (me, you, etc.) felt loved and buoyed on one hand, but didn't didn't understand what our partner needed to feel the same. We see this here in romantic relationships and we see it in parent/child relationships.

Good boyfriend, but maybe not in tune enough. Good parent, but maybe not realizing that you had a special needs child who was emotionally fragile.

When you finally figure it out, the ship has sailed.  And to be honest, have a special needs partner means you have to give a more than you receive.

On one hand, it more than some can handle.  On the other, some of us didn't realize that not having that same insight into the other persons needs and filling it usually means a relationship fails.
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wendydarling
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« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2020, 11:01:52 AM »

Excerpt
Good parent, but maybe not realizing that you had a special needs child who was emotionally fragile.
Yes, yes, yes Skip  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)
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FindingMe2011
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« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2020, 11:16:38 AM »

Honestly, FindingMe, I know you mean well but I'm growing tired of it being implied that I'm a narcissist or suffering narcissistic injury.

I get it, and have said similar words... Your thread started with "Whats your opinion". Obviously you wanted validating opinions, as i try to avoid this very situation and didnt realize this didnt apply to me. How could I ?Its fine, I will avoid your posts. I wish you well, Peace
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grumpydonut
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« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2020, 06:26:59 PM »

Excerpt
Obviously you wanted validating opinions

Absolute nonsense. I simply believe what you're saying is incorrect and an attack on my character that is unwarranted.
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grumpydonut
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« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2020, 06:29:14 PM »

Excerpt
On the other, some of us didn't realize that not having that same insight into the other persons needs and filling it usually means a relationship fails.

I agree. And that lack of insight continues way after the relationship. I still don't understand what she feels she needs, and I don't think she knows what she needs or wants either.

It would be great to be able to rewind to 2016 and simply choose not to talk to her and let her into my life.
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grumpydonut
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« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2020, 07:04:08 PM »

Excerpt
Good parent, but maybe not realizing that you had a special needs child who was emotionally fragile.

Someone on this site said that dating a BPD is like pouring water into a bucket full of holes. No matter how much you do, it will never be enough to fill them. That's how it felt to date her.

I think I'm devastated at being cut off as if I meant nothing, when she meant something to me. But I don't think I'm mourning the loss of a relationship with her, but the loss of my idea of a happy ending (marriage and kids, love) instead.
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FindingMe2011
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« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2020, 08:31:12 PM »

I meant no ill will. My intentions are not to create any. I sincerely wish you peace. Ive been to both.
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Skip
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« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2020, 09:13:19 PM »

I think I'm devastated at being cut off as if I meant nothing, when she meant something to me.

You meant something to her. Try not to lose perspective on that.

At some point, it was easier for her to "run" than to "fix". And part of her coping is to inflate her happiness with the new situation and devalue the old relationship so she wouldn't feel the devastation of loss.

It's complex. But it doesn't mean you didn't mean anything to her during the relationship.
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grumpydonut
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« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2020, 05:22:27 AM »

Thanks, Skip.

That was cathartic to read. I miss her / I hate her / I love her / I want her to come back / I know I can't be with her even if she did.

My mind is a mess.
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Skip
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« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2020, 08:46:49 AM »

One of may hardest learned life lesson has been that not all high potential relationships survive. Sometimes it comes down to just timing or environmental influences or incompatibilities that we don't see until we really know someone. I look back at my dating life and I have had some incredible relationship that broke over something simple - like a job transfer overseas at a time that was just too early to ask the other person to go with me.

Someone once told me that relationships have seasons (or lifespans) and some are shorter than others. My "BPD relationship" was 2 incredible years followed by two years of struggle. There was a life altering event at 2 years (a suicide) that was more than the relationship could handle despite my best efforts. I gave a lot. She needed more. I would have given more if I understood it. I look back know and I cherish the good years, and I accept/write off the bad. My only though was I wish I would have accepted the inevitable (when we were pat the point of no return) earlier. Leaving someone you love is hard.

Good mental health is built on making hard decisions like this.

I would guess to skirted the hard decisions (or didn't stick to them) and you struggle with that now. We have 100,000 members that have done the same thing. It is really help to do the postmortem and learn the life lesson that is there for us to learn.

I miss her / I hate her / I love her / I want her to come back / I know I can't be with her even if she did.

It's good that you are this emotionally honest with yourself. I'd add one to the list.
          We had our chance, it was close , but didn't work out.

Now its time to sort all those feelings out. The can all coexist but you have to find a thread, a logic, that allows that.

Don't look for who was right and who was wrong or who is more crazy - no one who lives in that value system ever finds a good relationship. Try to understand why it was close , why didn't work out, why it all means going forward.

That knowledge will serve you well.

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grumpydonut
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« Reply #21 on: August 05, 2020, 06:49:23 AM »

Thanks Skip. I will stick with the therapy and work through some of my issues. Hopefully that'll sort the rest out.

I definitely have been bouncing back and forth in my mind between me being the bad guy and her being the bad girl. It has got me no where, you're right.
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brighter future
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« Reply #22 on: August 05, 2020, 08:32:03 AM »

Thanks Skip. I will stick with the therapy and work through some of my issues. Hopefully that'll sort the rest out.

I definitely have been bouncing back and forth in my mind between me being the bad guy and her being the bad girl. It has got me no where, you're right.

I'm at about 4 months now since the relationship ended with my ex-g/f, and I still wrestle with thoughts like that at times throughout the day. However, I've been doing fairly well for the last 4-5 weeks now and haven't had any moments of extreme grief or anger. I'm still doing therapy with my counselor once per week, and spending time in this forum also helps tremendously.

In the last 2-3 weeks, I have been going out each evening about 7:00 pm after dinner and walking two miles at a local park on some wooded trails. The exercise is great, and it really helps clear my mind being out there by myself with nature. Sometimes I end up talking to myself out loud while I'm processing my thoughts. All of the animals in the woods must think I am crazy.  Smiling (click to insert in post) I've also been sleeping better at night since I've been doing all of that walking. Before that, a good nights sleep has been very difficult for me since the breakup.

Best of luck and take care of yourself. 



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