SD14 potential HS unenroll? Not sure what to do.

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

We were talking last night about how HS might go this fall -- SD14 will be a 9th grader and since spring the plan has been for her to go to local district HS. Most of her friends are going to the HS that's out of Mom's district (SD14 & friends went to charter school based out of district).

Side note; she had been super excited about a "day in the life of HS" day camp type thing that we found out about back in June; I told her it was fine with me and DH but to check with Mom because most of it was during her time with Mom. It was supposed to happen a week or two ago; I asked her if it turned out and she said "no, we couldn't find the information". 

So she says that actually, she might not do Local HS this fall...! Apparently Mom has an online "moms' group" and the "plan" is that the moms will rotate teaching one of their strengths for 30 minutes 1x/week. SD14 specifically mentioned there might be an astrology and star chart class. She said that "they" (at Mom's house) just want to have more time to do stuff like clean out the basement or go on trips when they feel like it, not be stuck in front of a computer 4 hours a day. Plus, SD14 said she won't know anyone at HS and likes feeling more connected in person to teachers and peers.

She kept saying how she has this plan and has a work ethic for what she wants to do, and plans to keep up writing, journaling, art, and wants to do science and math. We asked her what she would do if HS opened back up, and she said "but it won't", so we specified "so what if it opens up in midyear, what do you think you would do" and she wasn't super specific. I asked her if she would want to go back to HS (after a year off) as a sophomore (i.e., staying on track, vs redoing 9th grade), and she said Yes, so I asked who she thought she would talk to at HS about her plan to make sure it would do that for her. She wasn't super sure but suggested she might talk to the incoming Freshman coordinator. Doesn't sound like this has happened yet.

DH tried to be validating, and said he understood not wanting to be in front of a computer for hours a day. He asked her what else she wanted to work on, and she mentioned stuff like debate, so he offered to help her with logic and reading classics (that's his background). I think it's assumed I'll help w/ math & sci (my background).

He checked in with her after a bit to see how she was doing, that he wanted her to know that he didn't want to come across as attacking her or being down on the plan, and that he hoped she could see him as a helpful ally for her. She said something like "I didn't used to" or "it didn't used to be that way". She started getting emotional and kind of defensive; I asked her how I could help her or what research I could do for her and she said Nothing. She started talking about how "a friend of a friend of Mom's has this laptop I can use, but it's not like I want my own computer" and then she got super teary eyed. She cycled through a bunch of emotions -- upset with herself for not holding it together, mad at being vulnerable, guilty over "taking up time", angry that she wasn't living up to her ideal of someone who could keep it together, upset that she felt like a stereotype of an "angsty teen"... lots and lots of stuff.

We tried to validate -- just comment like "you don't like feeling vulnerable" or "you didn't want to feel out of control". She mostly was in verbal external processing mode. DH did some stronger statements like "we're all in process, even me in my 40s, none of us live up to our ideals". She did OK with hearing that but didn't really engage.

She talked about how if she were at Mom's house, then Mom & Stepdad at this point would be asking her all about how she was feeling, and where she thought it was coming from, and what the true source was, and showing kindness to her that way. She said something like "as opposed to telling me to stop feeling sad and get over it". DH asked her what her experience here in this moment was, and she said I think you're caring for me, but in a way that I can't make sense of. She mentioned that sometimes she didn't want to be "probed" and have all her thoughts and feelings analyzed and dug into, that she wanted privacy for her feelings.

This was probably like 45 min of her being teary, emotional, frustrated with herself, etc. She mentioned a couple of times how it would make sense to be upset about something truly emotional, but "this didn't make sense, it wasn't reasonable to be upset about education". So DH and I were like, hmmm, maybe that's some information for you, maybe there's something to dig into there.

SD12 came through a couple of times, but had her own project going on. She filled us in on her project and then took off to go work on it; that did seem to help SD14 come down a bit -- something else to focus on. So later the conversation turned to "roadmaps" -- DH shared with her that when we're younger, we make these "maps" to get through life, and they're based on information that come from how and where we grow up. Sometimes the info is good so we have a good/accurate map, and sometimes it's not. And when we get older, we have to reassess if our map is working or if we need to change it. SD14 talked about how when she was younger she did not see DH as an ally but saw him as always against her. She said she had changed that on her map.

SD14 also mentioned how she thought or worried that DH seemed sad after she said "you didn't used to be my ally" and she was worried about that. DH said for what it's worth, if this is helpful to you, I didn't feel that way. She talked about how she tried to take care of people's feelings, so we talked about that a bit, and she did some verbal processing of "I don't do that any more, wait yes I do, but I don't want to, actually I do want to and enjoy it" -- all over the place. She finally had this insight that taking care of people's feelings was like being a drug addict and DH and I just said Yes. DH commented that it is choosing comfort over discomfort.

She seemed done but still up and down, so I asked her if she would do something for me. She seemed startled but said Yes. I said, would you please do something kind for yourself? Smell something nice, get a glass of juice, etc? She got super emotional after that and said she felt mad, but didn't want to feel mad, and was frustrated that she did. I said "That sounds uncomfortable" and DH said "sounds like it is hard for you to be patient with yourself", and she agreed with both. Then she somehow popped out of it and was like, weird, I do feel better, I guess I just did have to wait.

So we talked about Wisemind, and how it's a way to balance our feeling mind with our thinking mind without going to one extreme or the other. I said she used wisemind when she noticed she was feeling mad. I said wisemind is when we just notice how we are feeling, and then we can decide what or if we want to do about it. Even wisemind is a tool that we can notice things about -- you can try wisemind and then decide if using it was helpful or not, and notice if you felt like it was or wasn't. She seemed receptive to that.

Then she was like OK, something nice I can do for myself is eat this ice cream  so I said Good job noticing something that seemed helpful to you in this moment. She was way better the rest of the day; went to her activity and then usually she'd go back to Mom's, but she and DH talked and she stayed the night with us instead.

...

LOTS going on.

I'm glad the talk went pretty well... there is just so much going on with her that she doesn't even notice yet. I feel like that's pretty positive, and it's positive (unless she's doing it to caretake DH) that she wanted to stay when it wasn't "her night". Could be any number of things -- not wanting to talk about this conversation with Mom/Stepdad, needing some relaxed time (she has said recently she feels more relaxed at our house), etc.

So there's the intangible side that is going... OK.

Then there's the practical side -- school. I mean, just when I thought things couldn't get crazier, she's going to get pulled out of HS for astrology class? I mean, WTF?

I do get not wanting to do a bunch of computer stuff, and to be fair, it's not like I'm the hugest fan of public schools around here, but I worry about the isolation and lack of oversight. Mom has pulled both kids out of school before (remember back when DH got a job at the co-op they were attending, so Mom withdrew the kids only for that year?  ) and when they went back it was obvious they were behind. I also worry about all the planning being put on SD14. Side note, can't remember if I mentioned this, but it doesn't sound like SD12 is getting pulled out... I think? Will need to follow up. Also, in our state, DH as NCP has the right to "inspect and receive school records".

There's a lot that's nebulous and unclear right now, so I don't even know what my questions are, if any. I guess I just need to get this out here for starters. Maybe my core question is -- how much do we step in to take weight off of SD14 (planning, curriculum, interface with local HS), and how much are we like "if this is what Mom says you're doing, then it's Mom's job to make it happen". I would be "OK" in a way if SD14 failed if that failure were chalked up to Mom (the way it truly should be) instead of Mom passing the buck and being like "not my fault you couldn't coordinate your own curriculum). The MO seems to be "if something goes wrong, it's the kids' fault; after all, it's always their choice what they want to do".

So what would the balance be between helping SD14 so there isn't all this weight on her, versus that just enabling Mom to have these stupid, harebrained ideas without any responsibility?

And what to do about the looming increase of isolation from peers and oversight? SD14 does have a 1 hour activity 1x/week, and we've talked about adding another that she REALLY wants to do so DH is looking into that. I guess we just coordinate more time to hang out with her friends? It does worry me, this whole "nobody outside Mom's friends get to have oversight on the kids" move.

It's all so crazy. I really thought I'd heard it all. It's so, so crazy.

[kells76]

We were talking last night about how HS might go this fall -- SD14 will be a 9th grader and since spring the plan has been for her to go to local district HS. Most of her friends are going to the HS that's out of Mom's district (SD14 & friends went to charter school based out of district).

Side note; she had been super excited about a "day in the life of HS" day camp type thing that we found out about back in June; I told her it was fine with me and DH but to check with Mom because most of it was during her time with Mom. It was supposed to happen a week or two ago; I asked her if it turned out and she said "no, we couldn't find the information". 

So she says that actually, she might not do Local HS this fall...! Apparently Mom has an online "moms' group" and the "plan" is that the moms will rotate teaching one of their strengths for 30 minutes 1x/week. SD14 specifically mentioned there might be an astrology and star chart class. She said that "they" (at Mom's house) just want to have more time to do stuff like clean out the basement or go on trips when they feel like it, not be stuck in front of a computer 4 hours a day. Plus, SD14 said she won't know anyone at HS and likes feeling more connected in person to teachers and peers.

She kept saying how she has this plan and has a work ethic for what she wants to do, and plans to keep up writing, journaling, art, and wants to do science and math. We asked her what she would do if HS opened back up, and she said "but it won't", so we specified "so what if it opens up in midyear, what do you think you would do" and she wasn't super specific. I asked her if she would want to go back to HS (after a year off) as a sophomore (i.e., staying on track, vs redoing 9th grade), and she said Yes, so I asked who she thought she would talk to at HS about her plan to make sure it would do that for her. She wasn't super sure but suggested she might talk to the incoming Freshman coordinator. Doesn't sound like this has happened yet.

DH tried to be validating, and said he understood not wanting to be in front of a computer for hours a day. He asked her what else she wanted to work on, and she mentioned stuff like debate, so he offered to help her with logic and reading classics (that's his background). I think it's assumed I'll help w/ math & sci (my background).

He checked in with her after a bit to see how she was doing, that he wanted her to know that he didn't want to come across as attacking her or being down on the plan, and that he hoped she could see him as a helpful ally for her. She said something like "I didn't used to" or "it didn't used to be that way". She started getting emotional and kind of defensive; I asked her how I could help her or what research I could do for her and she said Nothing. She started talking about how "a friend of a friend of Mom's has this laptop I can use, but it's not like I want my own computer" and then she got super teary eyed. She cycled through a bunch of emotions -- upset with herself for not holding it together, mad at being vulnerable, guilty over "taking up time", angry that she wasn't living up to her ideal of someone who could keep it together, upset that she felt like a stereotype of an "angsty teen"... lots and lots of stuff.

We tried to validate -- just comment like "you don't like feeling vulnerable" or "you didn't want to feel out of control". She mostly was in verbal external processing mode. DH did some stronger statements like "we're all in process, even me in my 40s, none of us live up to our ideals". She did OK with hearing that but didn't really engage.

She talked about how if she were at Mom's house, then Mom & Stepdad at this point would be asking her all about how she was feeling, and where she thought it was coming from, and what the true source was, and showing kindness to her that way. She said something like "as opposed to telling me to stop feeling sad and get over it". DH asked her what her experience here in this moment was, and she said I think you're caring for me, but in a way that I can't make sense of. She mentioned that sometimes she didn't want to be "probed" and have all her thoughts and feelings analyzed and dug into, that she wanted privacy for her feelings.

This was probably like 45 min of her being teary, emotional, frustrated with herself, etc. She mentioned a couple of times how it would make sense to be upset about something truly emotional, but "this didn't make sense, it wasn't reasonable to be upset about education". So DH and I were like, hmmm, maybe that's some information for you, maybe there's something to dig into there.

SD12 came through a couple of times, but had her own project going on. She filled us in on her project and then took off to go work on it; that did seem to help SD14 come down a bit -- something else to focus on. So later the conversation turned to "roadmaps" -- DH shared with her that when we're younger, we make these "maps" to get through life, and they're based on information that come from how and where we grow up. Sometimes the info is good so we have a good/accurate map, and sometimes it's not. And when we get older, we have to reassess if our map is working or if we need to change it. SD14 talked about how when she was younger she did not see DH as an ally but saw him as always against her. She said she had changed that on her map.

SD14 also mentioned how she thought or worried that DH seemed sad after she said "you didn't used to be my ally" and she was worried about that. DH said for what it's worth, if this is helpful to you, I didn't feel that way. She talked about how she tried to take care of people's feelings, so we talked about that a bit, and she did some verbal processing of "I don't do that any more, wait yes I do, but I don't want to, actually I do want to and enjoy it" -- all over the place. She finally had this insight that taking care of people's feelings was like being a drug addict and DH and I just said Yes. DH commented that it is choosing comfort over discomfort.

She seemed done but still up and down, so I asked her if she would do something for me. She seemed startled but said Yes. I said, would you please do something kind for yourself? Smell something nice, get a glass of juice, etc? She got super emotional after that and said she felt mad, but didn't want to feel mad, and was frustrated that she did. I said "That sounds uncomfortable" and DH said "sounds like it is hard for you to be patient with yourself", and she agreed with both. Then she somehow popped out of it and was like, weird, I do feel better, I guess I just did have to wait.

So we talked about Wisemind, and how it's a way to balance our feeling mind with our thinking mind without going to one extreme or the other. I said she used wisemind when she noticed she was feeling mad. I said wisemind is when we just notice how we are feeling, and then we can decide what or if we want to do about it. Even wisemind is a tool that we can notice things about -- you can try wisemind and then decide if using it was helpful or not, and notice if you felt like it was or wasn't. She seemed receptive to that.

Then she was like OK, something nice I can do for myself is eat this ice cream  so I said Good job noticing something that seemed helpful to you in this moment. She was way better the rest of the day; went to her activity and then usually she'd go back to Mom's, but she and DH talked and she stayed the night with us instead.

...

LOTS going on.

I'm glad the talk went pretty well... there is just so much going on with her that she doesn't even notice yet. I feel like that's pretty positive, and it's positive (unless she's doing it to caretake DH) that she wanted to stay when it wasn't "her night". Could be any number of things -- not wanting to talk about this conversation with Mom/Stepdad, needing some relaxed time (she has said recently she feels more relaxed at our house), etc.

So there's the intangible side that is going... OK.

Then there's the practical side -- school. I mean, just when I thought things couldn't get crazier, she's going to get pulled out of HS for astrology class? I mean, WTF?

I do get not wanting to do a bunch of computer stuff, and to be fair, it's not like I'm the hugest fan of public schools around here, but I worry about the isolation and lack of oversight. Mom has pulled both kids out of school before (remember back when DH got a job at the co-op they were attending, so Mom withdrew the kids only for that year?  ) and when they went back it was obvious they were behind. I also worry about all the planning being put on SD14. Side note, can't remember if I mentioned this, but it doesn't sound like SD12 is getting pulled out... I think? Will need to follow up. Also, in our state, DH as NCP has the right to "inspect and receive school records".

There's a lot that's nebulous and unclear right now, so I don't even know what my questions are, if any. I guess I just need to get this out here for starters. Maybe my core question is -- how much do we step in to take weight off of SD14 (planning, curriculum, interface with local HS), and how much are we like "if this is what Mom says you're doing, then it's Mom's job to make it happen". I would be "OK" in a way if SD14 failed if that failure were chalked up to Mom (the way it truly should be) instead of Mom passing the buck and being like "not my fault you couldn't coordinate your own curriculum). The MO seems to be "if something goes wrong, it's the kids' fault; after all, it's always their choice what they want to do".

So what would the balance be between helping SD14 so there isn't all this weight on her, versus that just enabling Mom to have these stupid, harebrained ideas without any responsibility?

And what to do about the looming increase of isolation from peers and oversight? SD14 does have a 1 hour activity 1x/week, and we've talked about adding another that she REALLY wants to do so DH is looking into that. I guess we just coordinate more time to hang out with her friends? It does worry me, this whole "nobody outside Mom's friends get to have oversight on the kids" move.

It's all so crazy. I really thought I'd heard it all. It's so, so crazy.

[kells76]

Edit to add:

Not against homeschooling -- proud to have been homeschooled. Very concerned about the isolation due to the specific circumstances of Mom's dysfunction, not due to homeschooling itself.

Also... curious if unenrolling a child from school counts as "change in circumstances". Not sure if/what we'd do with that info, but curious.

[worriedStepmom]

I think you did a great job handling the conversation with SD14.  It sounds like y'all have laid a lot of the groundwork in the past so that she is starting to question things at her other house - but that makes her very uncomfortable.  It does seem like she's slowly moving down the right track.

As for school, UGH.  SD13's mom wanted to homeschool her, but since we're primary parent we got to nix that.  I do think unenrolling from school ought to count as a change in circumstances, especially since there's no plan and H wasn't consulted.

I think your choice of what you and H should do is very dependent on your long-term goal.
a) Get custody of the girls or the right to make education decisions - then offer mom a few suggestions and let her completely drop the ball.  You know that SD14 is going to be very far behind at the end of the year, and this plus the fact that this happened before might be enough to get the court to make a change.

b) have SD14 realize more of who mom is - then let SD14 know you offered mom suggestions and let mom drop the ball.  

c) SD14 to actually be educated this year - you and H will have to take over the planning

There's probably some middle ground, too, but I do think it is important that you know what H's long-term goal is.  Also, if there's more time for trips, that's great!  It will be easier for the girls to go see H's sister.

[kells76]

Also, if there's more time for trips, that's great!  It will be easier for the girls to go see H's sister.

Haha, I was thinking that too 

I do think unenrolling from school ought to count as a change in circumstances, especially since there's no plan and H wasn't consulted.

OK, good to get some feedback.

I think your choice of what you and H should do is very dependent on your long-term goal.

Good point. I anticipate he and I are going to have an interesting talk tonight. Right now his plan is to email Mom about what's going on. While the tone/construction of the email will dovetail with his goal (like you mentioned above), I also wonder if there's a way to "email some rope" to Mom for her to "tangle herself" with. Not sure how that would look.

I also get the idea of allowing Mom to drop the ball.

Yeah, just a lot is in the air and vague right now. I can't find any info online about this "emotional health moms' group" that apparently Mom has been in for 3 years -- the name is kind of vague and hard to search for.

IDK... part of me hopes that this is a turning point for SD14, even if/though it will probably involve failing, or her feeling overburdened. Like you mentioned

she is starting to question things at her other house - but that makes her very uncomfortable.

Yup. Bringing up a conversation about "mom wants us to do this instead for education" and then feeling like she "had to defend it" to DH was very emotional and uncomfortable for her.

Lots to think about.

[ForeverDad]

You need a meme:  Reasonably Normal Parents ... Rule

It's not up to the kids.  Reminds me when I happened to see that Spanish dipped down to a 55.  I lectured him how he was not goong to get an F+.  I said there are B+, C+, even D+ but an F is an F even if it's a 59.  I told him he had to work at least a little harder to get it into D territory.  Guess what?  It stayed at precisely 55 through the rest of the quarter.  He couldn't have kept it more stable if he'd tried.

His response was, But I didn't fail the quarter.

I should have been more firm.  I essentially let him snub the course's work.  I got B average in Spanish when I was in school.  I even led two classes when we focused on verb conjugation.  All the kids hated me then because the teacher graded on a curve based on the best score.  I did too well.  And I learned Spanish but his mother is fluent in Spanish.  Too late now, he's graduated.

Getting the kids' input and trying to get enthusiasm is great but it's not up to the kids.  Sorry, that's the reality I see.  Just be a bit more proactive than I was, okay?

[GaGrl]

So bio mom has custody, but is there still joint decision-making on major life issues like education, religion, etc.?

Bio mom is eventually going to the herself in knots with these things that end up being mutually illogical...can't go on plane/trip but can attend public protest, can't go on plane/trip but chooses homeschool for more trip opportunities, etc.

Can DH get the approved homeschool curriculum she plans to use?

(I'm shaking my head over the astrology lessons...jeez.)

[kells76]

So bio mom has custody, but is there still joint decision-making on major life issues like education, religion, etc.?

In our state there isn't a separation between legal custody and physical custody. There's just "sole" or "joint" custody. Mom has sole and never misses an opportunity to block out DH and also complain about what a burden it is to always be the only one caring about the kids doctor/dentist appts. She's a joy 

There is sort of a record (by absence/omission) of Mom not notifying, or informing, or doing anything remotely close to joint decision making about doctor stuff, vaccines, pronouns, schools, anything. You will not find one email or text where she gives him a legitimate heads up or asks to decide together.

Bio mom is eventually going to the herself in knots with these things that end up being mutually illogical...can't go on plane/trip but can attend public protest, can't go on plane/trip but chooses homeschool for more trip opportunities, etc.

It's insane. Like I mentioned before, it's not the homeschooling that's the problem -- it's who is "going to do the homeschooling" (I say loosely).

And like I said, while I'm not a huge fan of the public schools around here in terms of indoctrination vs critical thinking, I would strongly prefer the PS's to SD14 being at Mom's, with Mom's "friends" online, every day. I fear she's pulling at least SD14 into deeper indoctrination.

And the whole "more time for spontaneous trips" thing... they have this friend couple that they've been "quarantining with"  who live around the corner. Different friends than the ones that are moving in a week or two. Anyway, there is something weird and unsettling about the relationship that Mom especially has with the gal. SD14 has described it as some kind of deep close friendship... but there's something unhealthy and mutually, IDK, parasitic about it? So remember when the kids were like "DH, Mom says she always liked camping, but you wouldn't do it when you guys were married"? Well, Mom has only gotten into camping/hiking since spending more time with this friend couple. So she's kind of remaking her identity to meld with this couple. I think the couple is in thrall to Mom/Stepdad and see them as enlightened and profound. It's all icky and enmeshed.

Anyway, I would anticipate the trips would be with them. The wife is tutoring SD14 in Spanish, and apparently has either offered, or Mom has set up, for SD14 to take a trip to Friend Wife's native country for SD14's quinceanera... this February. Would have to take a plane. Lol. Ugh.

So there's these unhealthily close relationships going on at Mom's that may grow more enmeshed if SD14 is pulled out of regular HS to do 100% homeschool. Basically Mom surrounding SD14 with all these people who think Mom is hot stuff and think exactly the way Mom does.

...

So that circles back to, what to email to Mom. I like the idea of asking her for the curriculum plan for the year. In our state, DH as NCP can inspect/receive school records. I think grades are released every, what, 2 weeks? If she does pull this "homeschool" thing, it might be a good idea for DH to request those records from her every 2 weeks... or even every week. Put it back on her to comply.

Maybe kick it off with "Dear Kids' Mom, please let me know if there are any changes to the kids' school plans this fall. My current understanding is that SD12 will do Current School remotely and SD14 will do Local High School remotely. Please let me know by next Friday so that I can plan accordingly."

There are just so many moving parts to this. I am almost ready to call Mom's bluff, if she's really into "homeschooling", and be like, Sure, I'll do math and sci, and DH will do logic and classics, because we listened to SD14 and she wants to do stuff in person, not online.

That's what gets me, too... SD14 is all like "I don't want to spend 4 hours a day online", but I don't think she really knows what remote HS will ACTUALLY be like, but she DOES know that this "moms' group" thing is by definition online. She still might be to tender to poke at that, but it's weird. I wonder if she even knows that Mom may be selling her on something she really wants to hear, but that ultimately is what Mom wants, not SD14.

SD14 & DH have counseling in a week, so, fingers crossed there is some talk about school plans there.

Also, local district says that you have 10 days after a withdrawal to register as homeschooling, or your kid will be a truant and is required to show up at the local public school the next day. Food for future thought.

[GaGrl]

My understanding is that homeschooling parents have to register with the local school system. They also may need to register the curriculum that is used (there are a zillion out there, and some are better than others).

You may want to check in with Panda. Her SO's ex took their oldest out of school at age 14 to be homeschooled. Ex then proceeded to do nothing, and no academic progress was made. There must have been progress checkpoints that the children meet, and she had a freshman year academic average of 0.00 GPA. She went back into school and recovered.

Part of me says to let bio mom take on this endeavor and see if she fails miserably, so your DH can get shared custody. But SD14 would be the one having to scramble to make up the work.

The other part of me says for your DH to delve into homeschool requirements in your county, curriculum, progress measures, and then offer assistance for all that fits your strengths (a bit more than astrology, I presume). And yes, have him ask for those bi-weekly reports. Hold bio mom to the reality of her decision. She might not last one semester.

[ForeverDad]

Sorry for not recalling dad doesn't have school decision making.  Too many threads with a myriad of varying circumstances.

Also, local district says that you have 10 days after a withdrawal to register as homeschooling, or your kid will be a truant and is required to show up at the local public school the next day. Food for future thought.

Short term I would keep quiet about the consequences of not registering.  If that puts SD back in school, great.  Less fuss and muss.  I wouldn't enable biomom by helping her be aware of or figure out compliance.  However, I'm not confident the school and authorities would stick to the rules and let her belatedly run around and fix her blunder.

[kells76]

Sorry for not recalling dad doesn't have school decision making.  Too many threads with a myriad of varying circumstances

That's ok -- this is a busy board 

I wouldn't enable biomom by helping her be aware of or figure out compliance.

Yup, no way am I reminding her of deadlines.

My understanding is that homeschooling parents have to register with the local school system. They also may need to register the curriculum that is used (there are a zillion out there, and some are better than others).

Yes on registering as homeschoolers, but no our state doesn't require any curriculum registration -- or recordkeeping, for that matter.

This would be down the road a bit, but I do wonder if DH's NCP right to "inspect and receive school records" would be stymied by Mom not being required to keep any. Although, OTOH, it couldn't look good for her to respond to each request with "I don't have any records".

Did find this in a .edu site:

"Education records" are records that are directly related to a student and that are maintained by an educational agency or institution or a party acting for or on behalf of the agency or institution. These records include but are not limited to grades, transcripts, class lists, student course schedules, health records (at the K-12 level), student financial information (at the postsecondary level), and student discipline files. The information may be recorded in any way, including, but not limited to, handwriting, print, computer media, videotape, audiotape, film, microfilm, microfiche, and e-mail.

Source: 34 CFR § 99.2

...

DH and I talked a bit last night. He had a good insight -- Mom is probably overwhelmed by COVID fears and all the chaos/upheaval/changing messages around school, and whether she is conscious of it or not, can't or doesn't want to cope with managing the kids' education. Recall, the girls have a little brother at Mom's too. So she is probably doing this "let's just unschool this year!" thing not because it's best for the kids, but because it's easiest for HER.

He also said it sounded to him like it was for all the kids, not just SD14. So, SD12, who was due for a SPED assessment this summer, would be pulled out too   

He plans to email Mom sometime this weekend. I wonder now if a conciliatory/cooperative tone would be better for the kids -- something like "What a crazy year it's been. I bet you've been so busy with trying to work at home and help the kids with remote learning. Let's talk together about how school for the kids will look this coming year; we can come up with a plan to level load and ..." not sure after that.

Going back to WSM's goal options:

a) Get custody of the girls or the right to make education decisions - then offer mom a few suggestions and let her completely drop the ball.  You know that SD14 is going to be very far behind at the end of the year, and this plus the fact that this happened before might be enough to get the court to make a change.

b) have SD14 realize more of who mom is - then let SD14 know you offered mom suggestions and let mom drop the ball. 

c) SD14 to actually be educated this year - you and H will have to take over the planning

(a) currently #3 of the 3 goals for DH, though I shared with him that I thought if she doesn't provide records to him, that's a huge red flag for me and doesn't look good for her in terms of documentation. Yes, there is a history of Mom pulling the kids from school to school, and she has said at some time in the past "homeschooling just doesn't work for us" (a.k.a. "homeschooling the kids doesn't work for me", to interpret correctly). So while a lot of the school change data might be "stale", it's also part of a pattern, and the fact that she's still doing this when SD14 is going into HIGH SCHOOL is pretty unsettling.

(b) would be #2 on the goals list.

(c) I think is #1 at this point when we have no further information. Personally I sort of "want" (I mean, not really, but in the "face the truth" kind of way) (b) to happen for SD14, though I think she's not far enough down the road to see that it's Mom who is sabotaging her, versus "why didn't DH help me, why did he leave me to struggle when he knew it was hard". So, it could be a stronger message to the kids if DH and I step in and pick up the educ slack.

...

You need a meme:  Reasonably Normal Parents ... Rule

I know, right?

[worriedStepmom]

Do you and DH have the bandwidth to help with homeschooling given that you can't work from home?

It seems like a lot to be dumped on you, because we know mom can't teach those things.

[kells76]

Do you and DH have the bandwidth to help with homeschooling given that you can't work from home?

I hear you -- been thinking about that, too. My boss knows that the situation with the kids is "high conflict". She has been pretty supportive of flexibility within certain parameters. I do joke that I can't just buy lab equipment on ebay and run tests in the garage... though it would be nice    If I can hit my 40/week I suspect I could rearrange when those 40 hrs happen... but yeah, when 80% of what I do has to be hands on in a lab... I do need to be real about that.

Last school year I put in about 1 hour per weekday for ~3 months with SD14 for math. That was doable with my work schedule. It would take some major reorg to do more, though part of me wants to "call Mom's bluff" by seeing what DH and I could viably do schedule-wise and proposing taking over that % of homeschool. I.e., if we can free up 2 hours per day somehow, then picking up the kids for those 2 hours of school every day. I mean, it's a total reach, but it would also be Mom's to reject.

[GaGrl]

As to the scheduling, one of the advantages of homeschooling is that the classes don't need to happen for the same length of time every day. Many high schools have moved to schedules more like colleges -- so maybe math is three days a week for two hours per class.

[kells76]

As to the scheduling, one of the advantages of homeschooling is that the classes don't need to happen for the same length of time every day

Right... I think this is pointing to a "call her bluff" strategy -- if what Mom says she wants is to just do what the kids want, and SD14 says "I don't want to spend 4 hours a day online", then any solution that gives SD14 in person learning should be acceptable. And if school time doesn't "count" as parenting time, then "it shouldn't matter" who does the education... right?

It might be a lot of "wait and see" until after DH emails Mom and she writes back.

[kells76]

DH sent this yesterday -- did a good job keeping it super BIFF:

Hi Kids' Mom;
Just wondering if you have any new plans for the girls with regard to their schooling this year?
Thanks,
DH

He'd wanted to ask how she planned to make sure SD14 stayed on track to reenter HS as a sophomore, and what she planned to do about the fact that SD12 had a SPED assessment a few months ago and needs some specific supports. But good job DH -- kept the target small on first email. Now work is on Mom to reply. We'll see what she does. I anticipate delay and stonewalling.

[kells76]

Just documenting that it's been 5 days and no email from Mom. She hasn't even tried to engage about this in person. Posting here to remind myself.

[Notwendy]

All this conflict seems like a triangle with BPD mom playing out her victim role, making you and DH the persecuters and dumping the rescue role on a 14 year old.

You and DH seem to be constantly on the defensive against parental alienation, trying to predict BPD mom's next move, and mitigate it in your and SD 14 favor- mainly for her sake but also so you two aren't seen by the kids the way BPD mom frames you.

I wish I had some better advice, but I recognize this kind of triangle as I also grew up in it.

I also found it to be an impossible task- trying to outwit BPD mom's next strategy in order to preserve my own image in my father's eyes and BPD mom's family. I was in a way struggling on the other side of the parental alienation- I wanted my father to see me as the good ( not perfect but good) kid I was, not the persecuter kid BPD mom presents me as.

But I couldn't compete with her, because we don't "play" by the same rules. And because she has a disorder and this impacts how she sees things.

You and your H have what I call "traditional values" and this includes a set of ethical principles. This is how I was raised too, but there's a loophole for BPD mom. When she truly believes she is in victim mode, she goes into fight mode and in fight mode anything she does is justified- this includes lying and making up things and doing sneaky and mean things in "return" for what she thinks is being done to her ( when it isn't).

This kind of behavior is against my own ethics, and since I don't have a mental disorder, I don't see things her way, and so I don't "fight back" like she does. The lies and manipulations continue no matter what I do to prove "I am being a good kid" to her or others.

It seems there is a constant stream of this kind of craziness from BPD mom and your family, with SD 14 being put in the middle of both your world and BPD mom's world. It's similar with my mother. You either believe she's right or I am. You can't believe both "realities" and BPD mom is very convincing.

Sadly though, in the middle of this are your stepchildren and they are minors. I wish I had more advice for you, but maybe the only one is- do things your way at your house, BPD mom does things her way. As long as BPD mom has custody and makes the school decisions, there's not a whole lot you can do. Neglect to the point of disputing custody has to be really severe, not just crazy. I think it's sad that this impacts the kids. I also think you two are doing a great job of "normal and reasonable". I got this in part from visiting my Dad's family and the parents of some of my friends. I am not sure there's much else you can do. But perhaps recognizing this triangle might divert attention from "what is BPD mom up to" to "what is the best we can do" and decrease the stress on you and your H.

[kells76]

Original message from DH was Aug 23rd. He emailed again on Aug 31st basically asking the same thing: is the plan to keep kids enrolled in local schools this year.

I asked DH what his goals around this (per WSM's post) were and he got pretty activated and intense. He apologized later. His goals are mostly (c) SD14 to actually be educated this year and some long term of (a) -- document what's going on. I don't think he wants to use the documentation but he is at least open to having it.

A coworker in a similar situation mentioned to me that she would tell her teen stepson "here's a list of the things I can help you with: finding curriculum, grading homeschool HW, checking in with the local HS about staying on track, etc. Let me know if or when you want me to help with these things." So for SD14 at least, that might be a good idea, and kind of melded with goal (b) of letting SD14 see that Mom is dropping the ball and DH and I are picking things up.

Finally on Sep 2nd she wrote back this:

Hi DH
So far our 'plan' is to do some sort of hybrid learning. Remaining enrolled at SD12's School for SD12 is paramount because if she is un-enrolled for this first quarter, that has been confirmed now to be all distanced learning, she would have to enter the lottery again to go back to school and I don't think that makes sense. I signed up for a teacher conference with Teacher for tomorrow at 1pm to discuss what this could look like. I'm thinking we will facilitate her watching the video lessons in LA and Math especially and make sure she is up on those subjects. We are setting up a full work space in our basement so that she will have a desk and all of her supplies for a 3 hour work period each morning. We plan to school this way Monday-Thursday and take Fridays off... We are also planning some day trips to water (river/lake/ocean) in this first month of school to keep the body and mind fresh while it is still in the process of learning online.
SD14 is currently still enrolled through District at Local HS. She has asked for us to take her out completely and to homeschool for this 9th grade year. I am inclined to do this and set up a program that allows her to self study. She would work during the same work period time we are all working each morning and manage math through an online program (still figuring this out) and hoping maybe kells76 would be interested in continuing to tutor her in Math based on her online program. She will keep up Spanish with Super Close Family Friend and we are working on a schedule with our friend (and public school teacher) [Name] about teaching all the kids coding and animation. This we would keep up even after covid lifts and the in person education options are available. She would start at Local HS next September as a 10th grader. She will have to make up some credits but after looking into it this wouldn't be too difficult to do and as SD14 is a very competent independent worker I don't have concern that she will catch up in the following three years or less if she decides to fast track into community college.
Stepdad is going to take a partial leave with work and help with homeschooling (facilitating the younger two) a couple of days a week so that I am able to continue to work. 
This is the tentative plan for now. With how rapidly things change I do not want to set anything in stone. This is going to be new for all of us and I am optimistic we can find a good working flow but it will take time and adjustments I'm sure.
Thanks for your patience. It hasn't been an easy transition with covid affecting so many aspects of our normal existence and I have wanted to be slow and intentional with our choices. 

Mom's Nickname

[kells76]

Couple of things.

Mom has not asked me directly to help with math. I'm fine with it but debating whether I want a condition to be that she asks me directly. IDK if that's worth it, but I also don't want to participate in all this covert, hinting, indirect, "make sure you tell him to tell her about X" stuff.

Both the family friends who Mom wants to help out 110% share Mom's ideologies. They aren't just "neutral friends" or "happens to be a public school teacher" -- they're both deep into Mom's world.

Mom makes no mention of SD12's SPED assessment meeting or followup, and I haven't seen any followup emails or results. DH is concerned about this.

She has asked for us to take her out completely and to homeschool for this 9th grade year.

. Once again the structure of the communication is "the kids tell ME what they want and that is EXACTLY what they want and they would NEVER tell me stuff just because I want to hear it"

as SD14 is a very competent independent worker I don't have concern that she will catch up in the following three years or less

. This is also concerning. There's a feel of "not my problem if SD14 doesn't succeed" going on.

No mention of astrology lessons coming from Mom's email, though both the kids have brought it up to DH.

DH's parenting time starts at noon on Fridays, though he's been doing 1pm due to the kids' former early release days in previous school years.

...

DH wants to reply today and share his concerns. I don't anticipate his concerns making any impact on Mom's choices -- I think it'd just be to get a paper trail.

I think I have some leverage in being the ONLY adult involved who could help SD14 with math for the rest of her schooling. Not sure if/how to use that leverage.

And of course, another "thing" in play is helping DH "reclaim his power" as it were. Figure out what he CAN do. It's easy for him to get stuck in "I can't do this, I can't do that, I have no right to X, courts would never go for Y" type stuff.

Any thoughts?

[kells76]

Oh, and it just hit me:

In Mom's plan:
There's a role for Mom.
There's a role for Stepdad.
There's even a role for me! 
Guess who doesn't have a role.

[worriedStepmom]

I would bring up an immediate concern that they are already planning for SD14 to be behind in 10th grade.  Which credits do they anticipate she will be behind? What can be done for her to get those credits THIS YEAR and not have to play catch-up later?  What does the school think about this - can she even be classified as a 10th grader in a year without those credits?

I would seriously question the wisdom of planning a substandard education off the bat.

[Catsmother]

And if mum is expecting to have Fridays off so that they can do day trips to the water, will that have an impact on DH picking the girls up at the commencement of their time with him?

[JNChell]

Sounds like an alienation attempt. How’s the relationship with the kids? Any worries? From what I’ve read, you and DH have this down. NPD mom wants resistance. She gives two PLEASE READs about her kids. That’s meant to say because she does love them, just in a very  up way.

Narcissists don’t care about our kids like you and I. Narcs care about appearances when it comes to stuff like this. If she has control and decision making over this, hopefully the child will learn something if mom leaves her alone. The kids are behind in school. Is that for court as well?

[kells76]

WSM, thanks, that was helpful to roll into DH's reply email. Our C recommended staying positive and kid-focused in the email, vs focusing on Mom's crazy plans. So, this is what DH sent:

Hi Kids' Mom;
Thanks for your email, I had hoped to respond earlier, but things have been a little crazy lately [kells76 note: we are west coast, and things are on fire]! I can empathize with SD14 and SD12 wanting face to face learning. I really want to see them set up to succeed-however this next year looks.
 Is SD12 still on track for getting her learning aids in place through District?
I am concerned that it looks like the plan for SD14 is to have her enter 10th grade behind. Knowing SD14 , that will be a lot of stress and anxiety on her shoulders. How can we support her and help her stay on track?
Please reach out to kells76 directly about math, she’d love to share ideas with you.
Thanks,
DH

and this is what we got back:

DH;
Per our conversation today:
SD12 will receive IEP services after further evaluation which will begin a few weeks into school starting.
I’ll be in contact kells76, with you directly, about support with Math especially for SD14 but possibly for both kids if this is something you are open to.
-Mom's Nickname

Well, OK then. No touching the issue of planning that SD14 be behind.

And if mum is expecting to have Fridays off so that they can do day trips to the water, will that have an impact on DH picking the girls up at the commencement of their time with him?

Catsmother, I pointed that out to DH and encouraged him to "delightedly thank" the kids mom for reminding him that she plans to do no work on Fridays, so he'll pick up the kids at the usual time. He hasn't yet so we will see what happens. I guess I am not interested in facilitating her entitlement to DH's time.

Sounds like an alienation attempt. How’s the relationship with the kids? Any worries? From what I’ve read, you and DH have this down.

With SD14 things are a LOT better. She is much more attached, affectionate, loving with DH than ever before, even with some head butting about values/beliefs. She sometimes is a verbal processor and recently has been letting stuff slip like "well I could stay another night here if I wanted to" or "if I lived here instead". It has pivoted to trickier with SD12 who is pretty enmeshed with Stepdad. When she's not thinking about him/Mom then she is pretty "in the moment" and enjoys time with DH and at our place. We have better pets    and she's an animal lover. But transitions back to Mom's -- she's mentally gone way before she gets picked up. That's hard.

NPD mom wants resistance.

And so DH did a good job of jiu-jitsuing away from feeding her what she wanted. It's amazing, I had the realization the other day in T that even the emails "about the kids" from her are really about her. She thrives on conflict and so any engagement with the crazy content just feeds her needs and takes all the energy away from the kids. Yeah, she wants a fight, so when DH didn't give her one... amazing how short her emails get.

If she has control and decision making over this, hopefully the child will learn something

Although that's not our #1 goal in this (#1 is still helping them succeed), part of me hopes it happens soon. Or, I guess, at an age where the kids can process what's true.

[worriedStepmom]

Is he going to push about SD14 being behind?

[kells76]

We'll talk today or tomorrow about next steps. We had something else on the to-do list that fell through and opened up evening time, and fires kicked the start of school back a week, so we have some "breathing" room figuratively. Plus we have a T appt in a week or so, so DH has that to lean on soon. Hoping all these things coming together help him feel like he is strong enough to keep pushing back. He did say the phrase "advocating for my kids" the other week so that is good.

[worriedStepmom]

It's a good opportunity for him to carve a role for himself, if he wants - to insist that he gets a list of what credits she will/won't have, and to help SD14 find a way to get some of the missing ones.  Surely there are some that he could help teach/coordinate, whatever.

[JNChell]

I’m just now entering the court system and how unreasonable these folks can be. Purposely trying to hold a child back is a new level.

NPD mom wants resistance. Yeah. A petulant child on a playground. I have no advice. You’re deeper in this than I am. At what point does a dumb damn judge recognize a pattern? At what point does the other side’s attorney “see” and “counsel” for the best interests of the child? Unfortunately, it’s a win/lose competition. Even worse, some lawyers see these situations as honey pots. They draw them out. The narcissist knows this. They’ve latched on to everything that they can that will benefit them. That’s how they get by.

Moms will rotate every 30 minutes? That’s cultish thinking. God, I feel so much for the kids that are stuck in the middle of this BS. We just want to be parents and supportive.

[kells76]

It's a good opportunity for him to carve a role for himself, if he wants - to insist that he gets a list of what credits she will/won't have, and to help SD14 find a way to get some of the missing ones.  Surely there are some that he could help teach/coordinate, whatever.

Yes -- things are turning in that direction. Our T encouraged him to do some "due diligence" about what SD14 would need to be on track at the end of 9th grade/start of 10th, and suggested he reach out to a mutual friend who is a teacher. DH had that on his to do list the other day. So I am hopeful that this is a new opportunity for him to be assertive and advocate for the kids, knowing he is in a position of strength, instead of being afraid that he will be "punished" by Mom (via her manipulation of the kids) for "interfering".

Purposely trying to hold a child back is a new level... NPD mom wants resistance.

And of course she's framing it as "what SD14 wants". Though literally TODAY we are still getting emails from the local HS as if SD14 is enrolled. School starts Monday.

I suspect Mom is realizing how much work it would be, and all the flowery "free learning, escape to the lake, my online friends will teach" ideas aren't happening and/or even those take... work. And it's too much for her -- which, OK, that's fine, it IS a lot. I agree. That is a lot. Plus we weren't far from a wildfire evacuation zone... stressful for anyone.

But she isn't asking for help, she isn't coordinating with me or DH, she's shutting down DH... so it's all on her if "SD REALLY wanted to be homeschooled" and ends up in public school.

Anyway...

Got this email about a week ago:

DH;
Per our conversation today:
SD12 will receive IEP services after further evaluation which will begin a few weeks into school starting.
I’ll be in contact kells76, with you directly, about support with Math especially for SD14 but possibly for both kids if this is something you are open to.
Mom's Nickname

I haven't heard anything from Mom about math coordination, and right now, the way I see it, it "needs" to be her initiating that so I don't overfunction.

DH replied yesterday:

Hi Kids' Mom;
Glad to hear SD12 is on track to receive the help she needs. I’m sure you are aware that SD14 will need to be unenrolled from Local HS if she is going a different route this next year. However, since she is still enrolled at present, have you considered having SD14 do the freshman orientation that is coming up? That could give you all good information with respect to the choices you are considering for the coming school year.
kells76 looks forward to hearing from you.
Thanks,
DH

Frosh orientation is going on right now online, so we will see later today if SD14 did it. I mean, the way I see it, better to do all that stuff, and then unenroll later if you want, then don't do it "because we're sure we'll do homeschooling" and then that doesn't work and you're starting way behind. But telling Mom that would not help anything.

...

So, that's where we're at. DH senses that Mom's curt replies are to "teach" him to "stay out of it"... good job DH for "playing it dumb" and engaging for the kids. So far so good.

My question is what I alluded to above: I really don't want to (a) overfunction for Mom by reminding her to talk to me about math stuff for the kids. So far I am doing great at not doing her job. But I also really don't want to (b) coordinate this through the kids.

So, if Mom doesn't work with me, but SD14 (especially) asks me to help her... what are your thoughts on how to give the kids what they need (math support) without making a triangle, or me covering for Mom?

[JNChell]

They will put more on their plate than they can chew just to make a point and exorcise control, then shovel the leftovers. This control thing just baffles the  out of me. What about the child?

Classic. Say that it’s what the child wants. No responsibility taken, and damaging the mind of an adolescent. Golf clap.

You and DH have your ducks in a row. This is just another unfortunate mind  by SD14’s mom. I know that it’s infuriating and exhausting. Hang in like you always have. Everything is going to be alright. Good job, BTW.

[kells76]

Frosh orientation is going on right now online, so we will see later today if SD14 did it.

She told us on Friday that she did not go to orientation, and, according to the online parent portal, is both (a) still enrolled in Local HS, and (b) was marked absent/unexcused yesterday. Saved a screenshot.

We also showed her the classes she was enrolled in, and the bell schedule (way less online time than she had thought). Apparently she hadn't even seen them yet. She said "Mom is working on the letters to unenroll me".

No emails, texts, calls, or letters from Mom about me helping the kids with math.

Hoo boy.

Feels like I'm watching something in slo-mo.

I might suggest to DH that he save the screenshots and... "bug" Mom with his concerns for SD14's education every day? Once a week? I don't know.

SD12 at least is actually in school.

[JNChell]

They never stop. SD14 has to be confused. I understand how  off you were. Education, as far as I’ve learned, is a big thing with the courts. This is erratic behavior by bio mom. She sounds like a person that simply needs control and will use her kids to feel it. Like a needle or a hit. This might be a window for court. Even though court sucks.

[Notwendy]

I think it's a control thing too. Just my 2c. But she also knows your Achilles' heel- the kids ( and yes, it's good you are invested in the kids) which is a potential supply of drama.

Also sounds like she's trying to maintain her persona, and goes with whatever fits that image without thinking it out or taking responsibility for it. Sure, homeschooling the kids is a valid choice, but the parent who makes that decisions is responsible for the home school. This is a disconnect. I am so sorry and don't know how to solve this dilemma either.

[JNChell]

I’m just now entering the family court arena, so I’m very green on the subject. But isn’t it frowned upon to mess with the child’s routine after it has been established because it can cause disorientation and upset in the child because their minds rely on constants? Imagine being 14 and losing the consistency of your friends.

[kells76]

Education, as far as I’ve learned, is a big thing with the courts.

That's what I've learned here, too, especially through david's posts. So when I heard about this stuff from the kids,  went up for me. That this could be something big.

sounds like she's trying to maintain her persona, and goes with whatever fits that image

Absolutely. And yeah, with control mixed in, plus a "what's best for MY life" kind of thing -- I think her image is of a "wonderful, warm, free household, taking spontaneous trips to nature, unconstrained by schedules or limitations". Even if that isn't best for the kids... it's best for HER.

without thinking it out or taking responsibility for it.

She doesn't take concrete responsibility for much of the "daily grind" stuff and will also gripe and blame when there's any inconvenience to HER time in doing it. That's what I'm wondering about with the "I’ll be in contact kells76, with you directly, about support with Math especially for SD14 but possibly for both kids if this is something you are open to" email. That she said she'll be in contact with me, but hasn't (too much work), and I wonder if she'll blame me for not telling her "if I'm open to it". I kinda think I already did when DH emailed "Please reach out to kells76 directly about math, she’d love to share ideas with you" and "kells76 looks forward to hearing from you".

So at this point in terms of not overfunctioning for her, I plan to talk to SD12's teacher directly (thank God SD12 is in full time actual school, though remote) about math help for her. For SD14, I guess I'll ask if she has HW. Hard to avoid word getting back to Mom via SD14 if I do business just with SD14, but not much I can do there. SD12's setup is better, I think we can completely bypass Mom with her main teacher.

Sure, homeschooling the kids is a valid choice, but the parent who makes that decisions is responsible for the home school.

Yep. I keep checking SD14's online attendance record with the local HS, and she's been unexcused/absent for 3 days now. Part of me hopes that Mom just completely drops the ball and SD14 is recorded as truant (that would be 10 days, I believe). It's not that I want SD14 to be hurt, but I don't want it to get up to the limit of absences and then Mom magically withdraws her in the nick of time. And Mom has "homeschooled" before... but not AFTER having them in the public school system.

Imagine being 14 and losing the consistency of your friends.

So most of her friends are going to the other local HS. Mom missed the enrollment switch deadline, or knew about it and didn't do it. Although a lot of this would be legally stale by now, I think it was finally this year that it all sunk in, how jerked around the kids have been.

SD14: homeschool thru 1st grade, homeschool co-op 2nd-4th, Mom pulled her out 5th grade because DH got a job at the co-op; back to co-op 6th grade (once DH's contract was up  ), public school 7th-8th grade, was going to be local HS 9th grade and then this plan to "homeschool" a couple of weeks before school started.

But isn’t it frowned upon to mess with the child’s routine after it has been established because it can cause disorientation and upset in the child because their minds rely on constants?

I wonder if it would be a change in circumstances. I kind of think yes. But in a way JNChell we are legally pretty "green" too... it never went to court, but "only" got close. I think an agreement was reached either 1 or 2 days before the trial date.
...

Had another talk with DH yesterday. In a way, this whole school scenario isn't really about school for him... it's about if he'll keep relying on Mom for info, and being super anxious and worked up when she (unsurprisingly) doesn't give him any. And if he'll see situations about the kids in a binary -- his perspective yesterday was "either I fight this, or I don't interfere. I can't decide where SD14 goes to school". I agreed with him that it's stressful, and that yes, we don't decide where she goes to school. He also mentioned that at the end of the day, it doesn't truly matter to him what grade SD14 is in, and I agreed -- in a sense, it's no skin off my nose whether she's in 9th grade or 7th or 11th this year or next. But I told him that I think it's a false choice that he can either fight it or do nothing, that I saw a different way to deal with stuff. He was kind of worked up and when I asked if he wanted to hear any ideas, he was like, Only because I'll seem like a  if I don't say Yes please kells76, tell me your ideas.

My thinking was that his anxiety about the nebulousness was kind of the core of things. I agreed that when things are undefined, and it isn't clear what to do, it's really stressful. So (long story short) I suggested that we stop hanging our hopes and decisions on if/when Mom gives us info. That there's a LOT we can do without waiting on her. And maybe our to do list could be really specific and detailed, instead of the nebulousness that comes from Mom. That it's about showing professionals that we care and are concerned, and getting information, and then letting that information help us decide what -- if anything -- we do next.

I also said that my hope was that we could "stay in the zone" [i.e. talking about stressful kid stuff] long enough to make a detailed plan. I didn't say this last night, but to me at least, that is what hamstrings us. We start talking about some stressful kid situation, and we're barely out of the starting gate before DH gets swamped. So, he gets all the anxiety with no resolution. Hopefully if we can "stay in the zone" together longer, we can actually make some plan.

He did ask me to come up with the to do list I suggested. So I did in excruciating detail for calling the local HS attendance office to express concern, down to "check off this box when done, put this paper in the folder, then you are done for today". When I get home I'll see how that went.

This whole school scenario feels like something big happening, but it isn't clear yet. DH did say yesterday that SD14 needs to see Mom for who she is, and this could be part of it. I agreed. My hope for us is that between "do nothing" and "fight it" we can at least gather info, and get it on record that DH is concerned and in contact with professionals. Beyond that, it's kind of about DH (in a sense) -- what he is willing to do.

[kells76]

OK, here we go from DH:

To whom it may concern,

I have noticed on Online Attendance Program that my daughter SD14 has been marked absent for the last 3 days. Mom has custody and has been talking about home schooling SD14 this year, but I see SD14 is still enrolled at Local HS. I am not being included in these decisions, but I am concerned about any lasting repercussions that the absences may have for SD14. If you have any information regarding the situation, or if there is anything I can do, please let me know.
Thanks,
DH

[JNChell]

SD14 has a solid relationship with you. Maybe have a girls night out with her. Be subtle. She might open the floodgates or be withdrawn. Either way, the two of you had a night out and she will come away it from knowing how much you care about her. I mean, she already knows that, but maybe she needs some space, and I mean literal space to be able to open up. Are there any big, wide open spaces in your area where you all can just walk around and appreciate the surroundings? Maybe pack some food, or grab a bite on the way back home. I’m saying try to get her away from everything for a few. It’s 50/50, but it might give you some insight into her current thinking. Not to mention being a kick ass stepmom.

[kells76]

it might give you some insight into her current thinking. Not to mention being a kick ass stepmom.

Yeah, I need to find a way to do that. She seems pretty triggered by digging into the HS plan for this year... and I struggle with the "poking" and "digging" and so often just revert to "having a chill time together". I feel like I drop the ball on the "heart to hearts"... a lot. Maybe that's another thread.

This back from the school:

Hi DH;
I have sent an email to Mom, inquiring about her educational plan for this school year.
At this time I do have her enrolled at Local HS, and have not heard from Mom.
Thanks;
Registrar

[worriedStepmom]

My H also gets flooded when having to deal with custody issues.  He wants to do what's best for SD, but he doesn't always know what that is, and he freezes.  My pushing him to make a decision or take action makes it worse.  It felt like we were constantly rehashing the same things and never getting anywhere.  The problems weren't solved, SD was suffering, and our marriage was suffering.

I had been trying to give him background and let him take the lead, because I did not want to overstep my bounds - he's the parent.  He admitted that in many situations he has no idea what to do and is paralyzed trying to figure it out.  I finally figured out that I have to present concrete plans to him, and then ask him if he has enough information to make a decision on what to do next.  Or "What other information do you need/want?"

He actually wants me to give him options and let him choose between them.  Sometimes it's baby steps (like your to-do list).  And sometimes when I present him plans, the only options he gets are "do you want to send this email, or do you want me to write it and send it in your name?" 

Your H may benefit in the long run from more of that kind of approach too.  I think you are as good as I am at playing devil's advocate and giving pros and cons of lots of options.

[kells76]

WSM, Hi, I see you there 

Let me just catch myself up a bit.

Latest email from Local HS attendance office:

Mom responded and does intend to home school this year.

I have withdrawn SD14 from Local HS at this time, however I do keep her on my attendance radar until her enrollment is confirmed by School District. Mom is aware, and is working on this piece.

Thanks again.

So not an issue with the HS any more, but in 6 school days it will be truancy with the district. We'll see if Mom squeaks it in.

...

DH talked with SD14 this morning. So, apparently, the reason I haven't heard back from Mom re: math is that... she wants this other person to teach/tutor SD14 in math. It's someone who 110% buys Mom's ideology -- same person the kids talked about as "will teach us coding" and "is a public school teacher". DH's theory is that Mom wants to block both of us from any kind of educational role in the kids' lives... she's that insecure. Can't have the kids learning from us, or having positive teaching experiences. The only ones who can teach the kids are Mom, Stepdad, and their vetted list of dogma sharers.

SD14 says Mom really wants her to do some kind of blog about her year. SD14's words were apparently "Mom is really gung-ho about it". I guess not SD14, who (thank God) is very tech averse and does NOT want any social media.

The only thing it sounds like SD14 is actually doing so far is listening to a podcast and writing about it. Mom "is trying" to get Stepdad and one of his friends to teach SD14 philosophy -- which was DH's degree. Can't have DH or kells76 encroaching -- must take over their skill sets and passions, so they can't share with the kids.

No mention from SD14 of science. Not surprising; that's my job.

It is worrisome this whole isolation of SD14. DH wonders if Mom is trying one last attempt to keep her 100% at home (and under Mom's control) this year. It's tricky, too, because while DH thinks that there's no way SD14 will complete anything close to a freshman year, there's no "failures" to go off of yet. So she kind of has to fail this year for there to be something actionable -- is his thought.

Gotta take dinner out of the oven -- but that is where we're at. I'm just sad for SD14... and for me. We would talk math for like an hour every day for 4 months. It was our thing.

[kells76]

I finally figured out that I have to present concrete plans to him, and then ask him if he has enough information to make a decision on what to do next.  Or "What other information do you need/want?"

That's a good idea.

[JNChell]

That’s actually a good idea for most men under pressure. Pragmatism. Don’t be mean, just be up front, factual and honest. Given the circumstances, your husbands are feeling a certain amount of fear and uncertainty. Their children are the focus here and they’re scared of what might happen. Consider that they’re dealing with women that have gone out their way to make their lives a living hell through their children.

From a man’s POV, this is solid support from a SO.

[Notwendy]

Reading this makes me wonder if something has to happen to call attention to the situation by the schools. This will be exceedingly difficult due to the pandemic- some students may not have access to internet as easily as others, and academic performance is impacted by so many factors. I think schools are erring towards leniency academically. Colleges are as well as some are letting go of testing requirements like the SAT as testing sites were closed down. So 4 years from now, it is possible that they will not be looking seriously at her freshman year grades due to this situation.

This isn't a reason to let go of her education, but it does present an opportunity for her BPD mom to have an influence that would not ordinarily fly under the school radar.

I think once this pandemic is over ( hopefully soon) and school is in session again there will be many children needing some catch up academics.

My take on BPD mom is that this is about control and enmeshment. Adolescence is a time of differentiation and separation - and BPD parents tend to see children as extensions of themselves- there to reflect them, not be their own persons. Seems like mom is doing that.

[kells76]

it does present an opportunity for her BPD mom to have an influence that would not ordinarily fly under the school radar.

That seems to be her theme this year -- using virus-related fears or changes to try to pull the kids away from us. A golden opportunity.

So, in a sense, it's nothing new. The structure of what she's doing is the same as it's always been. The differences are: why she say she's doing what she's doing, and where the kids are at.

Where the kids are at: SD14 is an overfunctioner and has believed it's her responsibility to make sure she doesn't transmit the virus back and forth. She is less enmeshed with Mom & Stepdad this year, though. SD12 is totally over the mask stuff and wants to hang out with friends all together. She is more enmeshed with Mom and especially Stepdad this year. So, SD12 would be up for anything, unless she felt that urge to be with Mom/Stepdad. SD14 wouldn't be up for anything, but it would be because of feeling like it's her job to keep people healthy.

I think once this pandemic is over ( hopefully soon) and school is in session again there will be many children needing some catch up academics.

I guess I see it as a "yes, but" thing. Sure, there will be kids who fall behind. But just because other kids might be behind, doesn't mean it's OK for Mom to build her plan around SD14 being behind. I agree with you -- it's Mom trying to leverage happenstance stuff to bolster her own plan and desire. "Oh, other 9th graders won't be ready for 10th grade? Then you don't have to be, either!" There are plenty of adults who could help SD14 have a successful remote public school freshman year. In our case, there is absolutely no reason for her to be behind. She's not sick, she has tech access, no learning issues.

My take on BPD mom is that this is about control and enmeshment. Adolescence is a time of differentiation and separation - and BPD parents tend to see children as extensions of themselves- there to reflect them, not be their own persons. Seems like mom is doing that.

Yeah, you're right. Especially with SD14's comment that "Mom is really gung-ho about me doing a blog". It's Mom acting out this ideal fantasy of how SD14's life should go.

...

All that being said, I am moving ahead with trying to help SD14 with math. I'm just not dealing with Mom, who can contact me if she wants (unlikely). I let SD14 know this past weekend that no matter what was going on with math, I'd be happy to help, and she said she'd like that. I asked SD14 yesterday if she needed any math for the week, and she said that'd be great, because "they're still figuring out the math curriculum". So I sent a bunch of review worksheets, and I'm talking with her teacher from last year about getting either the same book or the next one in the series. I'm also checking to see, because of remote learning, if SD14 can "audit" with that teacher's class this year (the teacher instructs a couple of levels, and runs a group that has 8th graders but would be SD14's math level). The teacher is fine with it as long as the school is.

I don't want this to put SD14 in the middle, so if you guys see issues with this, please let me know. I don't want to build a triangle or put pressure on SD14. I'm sort of proceeding like "I just can't imagine anyone would have any problem with me helping you! I want to help and support you, and I haven't heard anything otherwise!"

[kells76]

Literally as I was writing that, this came in from Mom:

SD14 let me know that you have sent her some math review to tide her over until she has a math class underway.
I have you on my list to reach out to this week about how you'd like to be involved. The review you sent looks pretty comprehensive and a good continuation of what Indy was studying last year. After discussing options with her and looking at Khan Academy's options, SD14 would much prefer to continue through the book she was working with last year and finish it with you. My thought was if you could procure the Book and decide on a pace together that would be great. Currently we are working for 3-4 hours Monday-Friday morning and she has plenty on her plate so if there was maybe daily homework of 20-30 min duration that would be great and then maybe a "class" with you Wednesday's and Friday's? Or if you have other free time and would like to fit a Math class with her in at some other (non-visitation) time just let me know and we can work something out. Currently the only scheduled classes she has are with Friend on Friday's at 11 am and with me Wednesday mornings at 8:30. She will also have another class with Stepdad on Monday or Wednesday at some hour but the time has not been set for that class as she's currently doing the readings to prepare.
Let me know if you have ideas/questions and we can brainstorm. Thanks so much for reaching out and wanting to be involved. So far she seems off to a pretty solid start!
Best,
Mom

[Notwendy]

Regardless of how she set this up, I would run with it. It's not just math she will be learning. Remember, you are a role model for her and even a little bit makes a difference.

I know I have posted before about the other mothers I encountered growing up. ( my father's family, my friends' mothers). They were not able to intervene in a large way ( I can see why from the posts on this board) but still, just the normal things they did that mothers do went a long way because, I could see the difference.

They didn't speak about my mother or say bad things about her. They just acted like themselves around me. I got to see how other adult women acted around their spouses and children and how they acted with me. It wasn't any specific action. It was the absence of dysfunction and drama in the ordinary things- shopping, cooking, just having a conversation.

To me, this is an opportunity. Maybe BPD mom thinks she succeeded at putting the math on you. Yes, you will teach her math. But consider she's going to learn more than math from this encounter and you don't need to do anything more than to just be yourself- in fact - this is the best way to be as she will learn from observing how you act with her and others.

[kells76]

Hey Notwendy;

Regardless of how she set this up, I would run with it

That makes sense. I think something I've learned from these boards is that what's really important is what I choose to do, no matter how anyone else interprets it. So, Mom may think that she's "roped me in" or can "dump" all this responsibility on me, or that she's "tricked" me into doing something. But if I've already planned to do it, it doesn't matter what she thinks about who's pulling the levers.

It IS all very "repainting the past" in an obvious and yet unprovable way. Suuuuurrrreeeee... I bet talking to me was on her to-do list. And she just hadn't gotten around to it. EYEROLL. But like above... even if she hadn't emailed me, I'd still be sending review sheets and helping SD14 with math.

It's kind of like -- she has this mindset that "things can't happen in SD14's life unless I have made it so". There's no room for other people to have independent interactions, apart from her management. So she is rewriting this whole deal as "she was so caring and planned it all". But whatever.  Not in my control.

To me, this is an opportunity. Maybe BPD mom thinks she succeeded at putting the math on you. Yes, you will teach her math. But consider she's going to learn more than math from this encounter and you don't need to do anything more than to just be yourself- in fact - this is the best way to be as she will learn from observing how you act with her and others.

Thanks for the perspective and encouragement. DH did caution me about not letting myself get roped into Mom's deal too much. I guess the tightrope will be balancing doing what SD14 needs, which may include some involvement/interaction with Mom, with me just doing things how I plan them, regardless of any fits Mom may throw or interpretations she creates.

And yeah, ultimately, it's true; the biggest issue isn't the content of what is being taught (math), but how this whole scenario is being played out -- the how, not the what. How can I 100% stick to my guns, as it were, and move forward focusing on what SD14 needs no matter what, without being a jerk, or petty, or manipulative, to anybody.

...

This is what I sent back:

Hi Kids' Mom;

Thanks for getting in touch about math for SD14. Just wanted you to know I got your email -- I will do some more thinking this week about scheduling, timing, and curriculum, and my goal is to be back in touch with you by this Friday at the latest with some concrete steps forward. I like the idea of using the [previous school] text, too.

Good to know that Wednesdays at 8:30 and Fridays at 11:00 are already booked; that helps with planning.

Talk with you by Friday;

kells76

Didn't want to overcommit or send more info than necessary, or solve her problems for her (like, buying the math book). Especially because I've been talking to SD14's math teacher from last year to see if she can sit in on the teacher's 9th-grade level math class. It's a teacher SD14 loved, and if it's all remote learning, class size is less of an issue. Teacher gave the OK, so now it's just up to the school admin. That would be awesome, because I don't have a lot of morning/day time available -- it'd mean teaching math on my lunch break. Doable, but not optimal.

Just waiting on hearing back from school admin before deciding what to do.

[Notwendy]

Yes, I hope you feel encouraged that you are making an impression for the long run even though there is day to day drama. A bond with a parent is a sum of all these times. It comes from the connection.

My BPD mom was not a hands on mom. She did delegate the day to day things to others, and my dad did a lot of it. The result is that I was more emotionally connected to my father than I am with my mother even though there was dysfunction in the family.

BPD mom manipulating or "dumping" the chores of parenting on you and your H may seem like she's getting her way but it's a win for you two and a benefit for the children both in the immediate sense but also in the long run. So yes, you will teach "math" but there's more to it.

[kells76]

Just found out today... guess who was unenrolled from HS and was NOT enrolled as a homeschooler 

Also learned that our local HS does not recognize any homeschool credits at all, unless they're earned through an accredited homeschool organization.

Currently emailing with the local ed district homeschool coordinator, and getting a paper trail that DH and I are concerned about what this long period of not being enrolled will entail for SD14.

Why am I even surprised...

[formflier]

Has any sort of independent testing been done to see where this child is actually at academically?

Hopefully there is a couple years worth so a trend can be sorted out.

Best,

FF

[worriedStepmom]

Has H thought any more about going back to court to ask for custody?  You have pretty good evidence by now that mom is not able to make good decisions about their education.

[CoherentMoose]

Hang in there Kells!  You are making a difference in your SDs lives.  As NotWendy notes, it's not just math you are teaching.  You and DH are modeling to them as well. 

I like the idea of baselining where SD14 is in math by getting an assessment.  I'm looking to do the same thing with my partner's children outside of what the on-line schools are doing.  Assessments help tailor support as well as gives feedback for progress (or lack of!).  CoMo 

[kells76]

Hi FF:

Has any sort of independent testing been done to see where this child is actually at academically?

Because of her mindset and personality, she is capable and on track as far as I can tell... but the longer this year goes on, hard to say. She is doing Algebra I with me and "everything else" with Mom/Stepdad. She is not doing any science this year and I do not know if she is getting any kind of grammar/writing structure. I think Mom/Stepdad's approach is "she is already amazing and advanced so we don't have to teach her anything, she'll just kind of get it on her own, so we will "teach" what we want her to know" which is "philosophy" and "psychology".

Our school district tests homeschoolers at the ends of grades 3, 5, 8, and 10, so unfortunately she has missed the "tracking" tests. Definitely a change from when I was homeschooled here -- standardized tests at the end of EVERY year.

I think if she were to get standardized tested now, she would look "OK", but again, at the end of the year... hard to say. Probably still "OK" compared to other students, but compared to where she'd be if in an actual school/education setting... probably behind.

And I say this as someone who had a great homeschool experience, too. It's not the homeschooling itself that's the problem, it's the "how" and "why", same as public/private schooling. The "how" and "why" for SD14 is worrisome.

Hopefully there is a couple years worth so a trend can be sorted out.

Ah... yeah, oh, this is interesting.

End of 3rd grade: was in local homeschool co-op, so should be a record.

End of 5th grade: 5th grade for SD14 was when DH got the job with the homeschool co-op, which was the 1 year that Mom pulled the kids out of the co-op. So, no idea if there is a record.

End of 8th grade: in public school, so should be a record.

...

Hey WSM:

Has H thought any more about going back to court to ask for custody?

Well, he has said that he has wanted to wait to get more data this year before doing anything like that. And this is new info today about the non-enrollment. We're with the kids this weekend, so probably after this weekend DH and I will need to talk. He hates the idea of getting legal stuff going again and shuts down pretty hard, so... IDK... may need to bring it up in MC so there is a "cushion".

You have pretty good evidence by now that mom is not able to make good decisions about their education.

This is where I'm interested in "devil's advocate" type discussion... so even in 2020  with education kind of in upheaval for everyone's kids... this would still count as "good evidence"? My suspicion is that Mom will play the 2020/remote learning card of "oh, it's just SO complicated and new this year... would you really ding me, a working mom, for one little mishap?" And she would probably also lean towards "Well, that's just paperwork, and what's truly important is that SD14 is still learning/advancing/doing amazing, so that reflects well on me"

Do we really have something?

[Notwendy]

Unfortunately 2020 has provided plenty of reasons for kids to fall behind in school so I think it would be hard to identify the issues with mom as a reason.

Honestly, as I recall, it was also difficult to do with my mother as she'd appear sweet and charming to any school officials who might have had any concerns about us in school. We mostly did well, ( a reflection on her) but sometimes didn't have homework done due to chaos at home. Of course it had nothing to do with her,    sarcasm here.

It still seems as if whatever structure or influence you and DH provide, BPD mom tries to undo. For whatever reason, she needs to take control of things and not do something your way.

I know it's tough to do this, but it's also a constant source of conflict.

[formflier]

Do we really have something?

I don't think you do.  And even if you did, courts are so clogged and backed up that it would likely take another school year to sort it out.

As a practical/pragmatic matter you would likely have better luck working tools and nudging back towards school and structure.

Gather whatever data you can.

Note, we have homeschooled before and are kinda doing it now (all virtual instruction for kids) and it's a lot of work. 

Best,

FF

[kells76]

I don't think you do.  And even if you did, courts are so clogged and backed up that it would likely take another school year to sort it out.

Right... it seems like one of those "be right" vs "be effective" situations that I always tell other people about 

Just interesting and weird that the one time we finally get "pretty good" evidence that Mom is not managing education, is the one year when it probably won't count.

That being said, I now have an email thread where the local school district homeschool coordinator says she has triple checked enrollment, SD14 is NOT in there, and:

"she is truant from the public school and within their jurisdiction for enforcement of the compulsory school attendance regulations"

Well.

So I guess there are two parallel tracks going on.

One is the documentation/data gathering. Question on that: I have expressed that "this is surprising news", "DH and I are concerned about what that entails for her", "our last understanding was that Mom unenrolled her from Local HS and was going to enroll her as a homeschooler", "Mom has tiebreaker on education so how can DH and I support SD14", "what issues do we need to be aware of here", and "DH and I will talk about how to communicate to SD14's mom about this".

Coordinator said to contact Local HS for how to proceed and I said DH and I will make that happen.

Anything else I should get documented in this email chain?

The other track is SD14's education. What I gather from Mom's house is just like notwendy described:

Honestly, as I recall, it was also difficult to do with my mother as she'd appear sweet and charming to any school officials who might have had any concerns about us in school. We mostly did well, ( a reflection on her) but sometimes didn't have homework done due to chaos at home. Of course it had nothing to do with her,  sarcasm here.

So that's where I'm wondering if DH and I just keep doing "whatever we want" to try to get the kids educated, no matter what goes on at Mom's house. NB I am now HW help for SD12's math as well, got that coordinated with SD12's teacher. I think I'm seeing this "2nd strand" as where FF's suggestions of "work the tools & do some nudges" would come in. Maybe this is an example: I'll be taking SD12 to some volunteer stuff weeknights, and I emailed Mom to say "I'll be there at X time to pick her up, and it'll be important for her to stay on top of school so that we know that volunteering isn't adding too much to her schedule". Maybe a nudge?

...

So, yeah, mostly right now looking for what else to add to the email for documentation purposes (strand #1). Because Mom doesn't know that we know yet, there probably won't be many changes to how we all interact over the kids' actual learning (strand #2)... yet.

[formflier]

Do you have it documented that you guys are not in favor on this course of action.

Also that you guys are worried about "enforcement action" being taken against the child and the parents.

Might be worth asking how she plans to avoid this.

Best,

FF

[kells76]

Do you have it documented that you guys are not in favor on this course of action.

"course of action" being... that Mom unenrolled SD14 from Local HS and is homeschooling? Or, that Mom unenrolled SD14 from Local HS and has not filed official homeschool enrollment paperwork in a timely fashion?

Also that you guys are worried about "enforcement action" being taken against the child and the parents.

Again just seeing if you are suggesting this for an email thread to Mom, or to local school officials.

Might be worth asking how she plans to avoid this.

How Mom plans to avoid the enforcement action?

[formflier]

Yes to all.

I don't think you should hand feed Mom.  As in I don't think you should hand her the precise problems and the precise solutions as you see it.  She has gotten this far by going against your wishes/desires/decisions and is using her tie breaker status (do I have that term right?) to overrule you guys...do not save her from herself

So..clearly document that you think in person is better and you are disappointed and concerned with the current course of action.

Also that you are disappointed and concerned you have not heard from her a plan to avoid potential consequences.

As far as what you tell the school district.  I would tell them what you know and be clear about what you do not know.  I would be clear that you are concerned about the child's education and that you are doing what you can do improve it.  Be clear that you have no real decision making power here and that concerns and consequences should be directed to the decision maker.

Switching gears

It's also important that you continue to role model for this girl and provide whatever educational support you can.  (others have made this point as well...big ditto from me)

How does all this seem to you?  How do you think hubby will take this?  Does hubby communicate with school or is it just you?

Best,

FF

[formflier]

Note:  If you have not clearly documented your objections yet, it is probably wise to do so in context of many of the new studies coming out talking about school safety.

My wife is school teacher, so I get a front row seat to how they are handling it.  And I think, by and large, school is safe for kids.

If my wife wasn't a teacher, I'd likely be pushing for in person instruction for my kids.  We have kids in every school (elementary, middle and high) and the current rules would have caused many moves from in person to virtual due to "exposure quarantine".

While I'm not a fan of the virtual school, I'm much more a fan of consistency for my kids and now the only quarantines we have to worry about is for my wife.

As an example, let's say high schooler gets exposed at school and is sent home for 2 weeks..well..everyone else in our family would get sent home as well, including my wife.  Then they go back and there is an exposure at middle school (yep..everybody back home again).  

The way we have it now my kids are the same and my wife teaches virtually from home when she has to quarantine.  (which has happened a time or two)

The schools have a pretty tight tracking system for kids and teachers..so when there is a positive and/or exposure...they quickly generate a list of who has to stay away.

Best,

FF

[kells76]

One idea:

Hi Kids' Mom;

SD14 is currently considered truant because she has not been enrolled as a homeschooler with Local Ed Service. I'm saddened things have come to this point and am concerned for her education. Please let me know as soon as possible what you plan to do. I'm worried about how this could turn out for SD14.

Best;

DH

If this were to be included:

Given that Local District plans to return to a hybrid model in winter term, let's get her enrolled in Local HS for the hybrid model (partial in person), which we know she wants (instead of all online).

I suspect it would trigger Mom's opposition and "amazing revelations of insight into what SD14 TRULY wants, which isn't what you suggest"

And it might be "solving her problem" for her. So, not going there. Even though it would address this:

So..clearly document that you think in person is better and you are disappointed and concerned with the current course of action.

Sadly, Mom usually "digs in her heels" and uses "[her interpretation of] what SD14 REALLY wants" as her defenses against doing anything DH thinks is better. So, we have to be creative about keeping the kids out of the middle of these kinds of discussions.

...

As far as what you tell the school district.  I would tell them what you know and be clear about what you do not know.  I would be clear that you are concerned about the child's education and that you are doing what you can do improve it.  Be clear that you have no real decision making power here and that concerns and consequences should be directed to the decision maker.

Makes sense. My only nagging worry is that there would be any "hand slaps" or punitive action towards DH if he learned this info yesterday and hasn't acted on it for a couple of days. I did include in an email to the homeschool coordinator that "I'm sure you can appreciate that this is a delicate situation when there are two households".

And I think, by and large, school is safe for kids.

110% with you. Sadly facts and data don't mix with the kids' mom, so again we have to find other ways to work with her. A typical decompensation from her, when pressed with actual facts, would be "well, it's not about logic".

I'm much more a fan of consistency for my kids

Absolutely, and I think it's a "hidden cost" of this whole thing... the fear, inconsistency, and insecurity in kids' lives. Routine and structure aren't just "oh, I guess it's nice for the kids now and then"... the less energy they have to spend on figuring out what's new and changing in life, the more energy they have to spend on maturing, growing up, and being stable selves. This is going to come back to bite young people and nobody is talking about it. Sigh...

but they haven't asked me to be in charge... yet 

[formflier]

Hi Kids' Mom;

SD14 is currently considered truant because she has not been enrolled as a homeschooler with Local Ed Service. I'm saddened things have come to this point and am concerned for her education. Please let me know as soon as possible what you plan to do. I'm worried about how this could turn out for SD14.

Best;

DH

First of all...I can't say this is "bad".  

It's certainly not what I would do.  Here is why.

It will reveal that you have been rooting around in school records/people (that would likely be triggering).

Plus..it's overfunctioning (IMO) for a pwBPD.  

If she isn't smart enough to ascertain risk to her kid and verify her kids status, doesn't that say something?  Why cover for her or hand her the answer?

Hmm..oh...I would stay away from what a 14 year old wants.  Make it about what DH believes is wise for their child.  (own it...don't justify it)

Let her dig in her heels (don't let this possibility shy away from the truth).  If you were really concerned with this...would you have DH send her an email saying that he and SD14 think homeschooling is best...therefore causing her to enroll kid back with in person instruction?  

Yes...this is me making a bit of light of the situation...but you see the point here.  Speak your truth..clearly and for the record, let a pwBPD fly around on their broom if they want to.

Again..this is all my POV.  Not at all saying yours is wrong.  I can easily see how covering for the Mom "helps" a 14 year old avoid the fallout from a pwBPD mom.  It's likely many would support exactly what you are suggesting.

So...just know I'm in your corner with whatever path you take.  My goal is that you understand my POV...all after that..we're good!  

Best,

FF

[Notwendy]

This story reminds me a bit of when my father was ill and my BPD mother took charge ( he wouldn't oppose her) of his medical care. I naively tried to step in and "rescue" my father from some decisions. Although he was a legal adult, and D14 is not, he also was seriously ill and so was dependent on her.

The triangle in this is also similar. But it's a dysfunctional one.

I may have missed something, but it seems that D14's mother is in charge legally?

I called social services to see if I could intervene, but since my father was legally competent, there wasn't anything I could do.

There can be a discrepancy between what you as a step parent feels the child needs and the legal standard of care, which may not be up to your standards.

I know there's a child involved and if I had custody of a child, I would fight for their well being, but if BPD mom is calling the education shots, and there's not legal premise for this fight, then you are fighting mom with no legal ground to stand on.

One might also consider that the more you do, the more you keep mom from really messing up long enough for the schools or social services to step in and I am pretty sure they will if there's truancy. If D14 is not enrolled, maybe better to step out of the way and let them deal with BPD mom.

There are a couple of triangles here. One is you, your H, and BPD mom. The other is you/DH, BPDmom and her H, and D14. From my own observation, pwBPD perceive things from victim perspective.  When you step in as rescuer, you become the persecutor. The other two players on the triangle are likely to align against you with BPD mom in victim mode.

Even a suggestion can trigger victim perspective.

You come in to "rescue" D 14. BPD mom takes victim mode, her H aligns with her against you. ( when I tried to help my Dad, mom took victim mode, Dad stepped in to rescue her)

You come in to help D14 and BPD mom feels threatened, coerces D14 to align with her. "I am doing what D14 wants"- and so abducting her responsibility to decide what is best for D14, regardless of what a teenager wants.

I know you want what is best for D14, but I am not sure of what rights you have to intervene in this situation, and unless something changes legally. I know you are documenting what is going on, but if mom has legal authority, I don't know how much you can do beyond help with school when the children are with you.


I just read FF's response and I think we said the same thing

it's overfunctioning (IMO) for a pwBPD.

[worriedStepmom]

At this point, I wouldn't talk to mom about it at all.  I would consult with a lawyer to see if this is enough to get tiebreaker status for education purposes.

You've already documented a lot of conversations in the late summer about making sure that everything is organized properly for the kids' education.  You reminded mom to talk to the school months ago.  You and H have been bending over backwards to get info from the school to make sure you can help the kids with their education and that they would continue to be on track.  And you let mom know that you were trying to help.  

What did mom do?  Not much.

It *is* a weird year.  But in your case you have a parent (H) who is trying to tie up the loose ends, and a parent who refuses to do so.

[kells76]

And maybe that's the meta question here... is there even a thing to do?

Finding out that SD14 is truant was a surprise. I was seeing if the math we're doing (a) is on track for 9th grade, and (b) will garner any HS credit for her. The info kind of came out in that email exchange.

I'm on board with not overfunctioning for Mom. And yeah, as a stepparent, really nothing I can do.

the more you do, the more you keep mom from really messing up long enough for the schools or social services to step in and I am pretty sure they will if there's truancy

That is a question I have... does the local public school district talk to the county ed service? County ed service is the umbrella for any education of any kind (public, private, home, alternative, etc) happening in the county. Local HS knows SD14 was unenrolled, but what I don't know is if they report that to the County ed service. I.e., are these groups talking to each other?

I know you are documenting what is going on, but if mom has legal authority, I don't know how much you can do beyond help with school when the children are with you.

Yup, and in a way, I'm totally fine with this -- with not overfunctioning, and letting Mom experience the outcomes of her choices. I think mostly I don't want DH to get "in trouble" for knowing this and "not doing anything".

...

It will reveal that you have been rooting around in school records/people (that would likely be triggering).

Yup... and even though DH has that right, yes, 110% that would trigger her.

If she isn't smart enough to ascertain risk to her kid and verify her kids status, doesn't that say something?

Yes it most certainly does.

...

So, tying it all together...

We have expressed our concern to the ed district

Informing Mom that SD14 is truant "shows our hand" and is triggering... it's being right instead of effective

Stepping into a situation that Mom has created is making a drama triangle

SD14 is more in a place now where she sees how Mom is, and if there is fallout from truancy, could likely correctly identify Mom's choices as the source

As long as DH is not legally on the hook for something (i.e. "duty to report" type thing?)...

we sit back and wait, so that we don't solve Mom's problems for her

...

Condensing further:

As long as DH has done anything he might be required to do, after receiving this information unexpectedly, then we don't do anything else, so that we don't create an unhealthy triangle.

Given that we are on board with not overfunctioning, can you guys see anything that DH might be required to do before we sit back?

[kells76]

At this point, I wouldn't talk to mom about it at all.  I would consult with a lawyer to see if this is enough to get tiebreaker status for education purposes.

Yeah, that's the consensus, and our experience as well. She doesn't do well with that kind of information.

Maybe the L could also give feedback on "does DH have to do anything legally once he has unexpectedly received this info"... but it would be an expensive answer 

[CoherentMoose]

We're in a similar situation and I've come to the conclusion we have to sit back and wait for the situation to blow up.  We are putting pieces in place for legal action, but do not plan to execute at this time.  Instead, we focus on our relationship with the children and working on ourselves becoming better parents.  My fiancé is hurting watching the unnecessary challenges her children face, but is starting to understand there is nothing she can say or do to change her xBPDH behaviors, and in fact, pretty much anything she tries makes matters worse for the children. 

I agree with this:

At this point, I wouldn't talk to mom about it at all.

You have a great relationship with your SDs.  That is amazing.  I'm hoping to get there someday with my step-children.  Keep that connection strong and helpful.  With a BPD, there will come a day when additional options will open up for you and your DH.  Good luck.  CoMo

[Notwendy]

I think it depends on the location, but in my area the school reports too many absences and tardies to social services. I assume truancy would get their attention too.

[formflier]

1.  Check your emails to see if you "can document" that you are not onboard?  (don't fix it yet, just check).

2.  Ask L if this is enough.  (I'm not so sure it will be that expensive).

3.  I would ask school a process question.  Just straight up ask them what is going to happen.

Based on school response, you may want to follow up.

You are right to make sure that you guys have done what is reasonable in the eyes of the court with this information.

So..maybe 2 questions for L.

1.  Is this enough.
2.  Based on what we have done/said so far, will a court see us as reasonable?

Best,

FF

[kells76]

I think I'm going to spin off the legal question into a new thread.