Why do I feel like I’m the one screwing everything up?

[RestlessWanderer]

I don’t know if I will ever figure out how to communicate with my uBPDw. I read every day how to validate, not to invalidate, how to not make things worse, how not to escalate, etc. I talk with my therapist once a week now (it had been every two weeks, but the endless difficulties pushed me to needing weekly sessions). Without fail I will forget something, misunderstand something else, say the wrong thing, express my feelings (which apparently only she can do freely), attend to my work responsibilities, help my mom, put off something less urgent around the house, fall asleep watching tv on the couch, etc.
I know that my actions really do not warrant the reactions I get. But thanks to BPD and NPD traits/behaviors that’s not the reality I live in. It gets so frustrating it drives me to tears almost daily. I try to see and respect where she’s coming from. But unless I do it faster/sooner/earlier, none of the tools I’m learning here are helping.
Take this morning for example. Since my wife has been upset with me this week for apparently missing her request to ensure she didn’t oversleep, I asked her before I fell asleep if she needed me to wake her up at a specific time. She said no, because she told our son to go ahead and wake her up whenever he got up. Earlier she had also asked me to take our son to run some errands in the morning. Things appeared to be ok when our son came in around 9:30. My wife has insomnia and was up until at least 5, so she dozed off. He watched for less than an hour before my wife asked the rhetorical question “So you’re not going to pick up those things? Or let me guess, you forgot? You just don’t give a PLEASE READ do you? Don’t worry, I’ll do it myself.” Frustrated, and knowing that there was nothing to say or do at that point that would improve the situation I walked out with a big sigh and closed the door. Then she shouts out something about me not having a right to be upset when she was the one that wasn’t listened to. I poked my head back in the bedroom and said that I would go run the errands. She had made up her mind and didn’t want my help (this type of scenario has played out countless times now).
Or take last night. She and our son went out for a “date.” While out shopping, she tried to call my cellphone. For whatever reason it loses connection from time to time. She then sent a barrage of texts with a range of insults and profanities. I got the messages some time later when my phone reconnected. I immediately responded with a call (unanswered) and a couple of texts telling her what happened. But she just “knew” that I was ignoring her and didn’t care what I had to say. I only offered the brief explanation once to not JADE. But her mind was made up. When they got home she walked around the house for about 30 minutes talking to herself (but intentionally within earshot) about all the things I had “screwed up.”
I try to keep this kind of thing from happening. I try to offer solutions once things go south. I try to read between the lines and figure out what she is really saying, and try to address/acknowledge it. I try to be helpful, compassionate, and empathetic. But I get called the complete opposite.
I’m not fooling myself into thinking that I can save/heal/change her. I know that I can only control my actions. I know that I can only change myself (which has natural and reasonable limits). I’m not waiting for the miracle change in her. I’m just trying my best to manage the situation and maintain my sanity. And most importantly, I’m trying to keep things peaceful for my son’s sake.

I am just out of ideas and feeling so frustrated.

I doubt that there’s much advice to offer me here. But I’m all ears anyway.

[Cat Familiar]

Some relationships are so challenging and toxic that there’s little that one can do to make them better. On the other hand, there are people who are not as affected by a personality disorder, only having traits, and not full blown BPD or NPD.

I have experience with both. Had I known about the tools back when I was married to a man who was very extreme on the BPD and NPD behaviors, I don’t think I could have continued to tolerate the outlandish and offensive behaviors, no matter how calm and centered I was.

I understand that you’ve got a lot of things you’re currently dealing with and you’re trying your best to keep things together for your son. What are you envisioning for the future once some of those issues are settled?

[globalnomad]

Hi there. I'm not sure if I have much useful to offer, but just wanted to say that I really relate to this entire post. It's easy to start questioning your own sanity when you're being so frequently blamed for things, even if your rational mind tells you that you haven't done anything wrong. It's exhausting.

Why doesn't your wife set an alarm clock? One thing I've been making an effort to do is get my wife to take responsibility for more of her own problems. She's always trying to make me take ownership for them, which typically feels like a trap. So if she asked me to wake her up at a specific time, for example, I might say something like "Happy to wake you but since I'll be doing x, y and z in the morning and might be distracted, why don't you set your alarm clock just to be sure?" If she chooses not to do that then it's on her if she oversleeps. (of course whether she sees things that way may be another question).

Again, not sure this is of any help but sorry to hear about the frustration. Been there, done that and it isn't fun.

[Cat Familiar]

Very good suggestion from globalnomad. It’s so typical when we become immersed in a codependent relationship that we take responsibility for what should be entirely someone else’s role.

How can you back away from some of those duties that she has assigned you, which are entirely her responsibility?

[RestlessWanderer]

She claims that she set an alarm on her phone. But, since she listens to audio books to fall asleep the battery dies. I got her some speakers that slip into your pillow case so the phone can stay plugged in, but for whatever reason she’s not doing that. She doesn’t want an alarm clock because, as an insomniac, she hates to see the time glowing in her face.
It’s hard to back away from those requests when I missed the message altogether. I don’t think I’m that bad at listening. I think she does a poor job of clearly communicating those requests. Good luck trying to put either of those things back on her without an instant disregulation explosion.
I’ve suggested her leaving me notes as reminders of the things she wants help with. That’s always met with the response of “Why should I write you notes like a child? Why can’t you just listen to me?”
While I completely agree, I don’t know how to suggest she take responsibility of her own things without it blowing up in my face.

[Cat Familiar]

As long as you continue to avoid things that might “blow up in your face,” she will continue to behave abusively to you, because she can.

I’m not encouraging you to incite a dysregulation; undoubtedly she has the ability to do that well.

What I’m saying is that you are allowing her to behave badly without repercussions.

If you want to change that, a simple “No” stated calmly and firmly, without explanation, and if that doesn’t suffice, walk away. Repeat as often as necessary.

This sounds simplistic, but if repeated time and again, can change long-standing behavioral patterns.

If she’s more NPD than BPD, it’s likely that she has gotten into a pattern of disrespecting you for your appeasement.

[start_again]

RestlessWanderer Hello, I can feel your pain and am sorry you have to deal with this as I do also.  I am trying to not to poke my head back in the bedroom.  I used to do that to try to make things better and it ended up making things worse.  I am working on stopping making suggestions when things go south it only makes things worse.

Cat Familiar – TY for the No is No suggestion.  This is an eye opener for me “it’s likely that she has gotten into a pattern of disrespecting you for your appeasement”.   That was what I was doing when I returned to the scene of the crime and offered appeasement which only ended up with more abuse for me.  The insanity of me coming back to try to make things better and I would end up in worse shape.  Doing this over and over again with the same results – I am trying to put a stop to it.

[globalnomad]

If she’s more NPD than BPD, it’s likely that she has gotten into a pattern of disrespecting you for your appeasement.

This comment really made me think. It seems pertinent to my situation as well. Appeasing my wife when she's bullying me, engaging in JADE or even just remaining physically present when she's raging only seems to invite even more disrespect. It seems the only solution is to walk away.

[RestlessWanderer]

In this situation I don’t know what to say no to. She claims she asked me to wake her up. But I don’t recall that conversation. She does this a lot. Will insist she told me something that I have no recollection of. Is it that she’s a poor communicator? Or am I a poor listener? Or is she making those claims falsely?
I know that none of you have the answers to those questions. But that’s what I feel I am facing.
While I agree that I do need to find a way to not award her behavior, I struggle to see that path, especially in real time. Hindsight is 20/20. But that is limited. I’ve been trying to figure this out for quite a while now.
 I will work on being more firm and avoiding appeasement.  

[I Am Redeemed]

Since my wife has been upset with me this week for apparently missing her request to ensure she didn’t oversleep, I asked her before I fell asleep if she needed me to wake her up at a specific time. She said no,

You're inviting more of the same "it's your fault" behavior when you do this. You're trying to "fix" every little thing that she says is the problem when it's actually not the problem. The problem is that she has internal emotions that she is blaming on external sources.

You have provided a solution for the phone to still work even with the audio books. She can use that if she wants to set an alarm. She is not looking for solutions to her own problem. She is making it your responsibility, blaming you for not reading her mind, and you are agreeing with her that it is your job to make sure she wakes up (with the goal of avoiding a dysregulation).

You are not going to be able to head off every dysregulation and meltdown about every single thing she finds to get upset about today, tomorrow, or the next day. That is the definition of walking on eggshells. It's a 24/7 job to take on the responsibility of trying to make sure that she doesn't get mad, and it doesn't work.

[RestlessWanderer]

I’m trying to find a middle ground between the totally co-dependent “I will fix you no matter what” attitude and the “it doesn’t matter what you ask me, those are your problems” position. I know that disregulation is inevitable. But does that mean that peace is an impossibility in this relationship?

[start_again]

You're inviting more of the same "it's your fault" behavior when you do this. You're trying to "fix" every little thing that she says is the problem when it's actually not the problem. The problem is that she has internal emotions that she is blaming on external sources.

I get this all the time where my wife insists she said something to me when she didn’t.  It has nothing to do with poor communication on her part or that I wasn’t listening.  In my career my job was to listen so I know it isn’t that.  The facts are she never said it and is basically baiting me to say that she never said it.  Once I say “you never said that” it is off to the races with abuse.  So now I tell myself no I am not going to respond and try to correct the situation – not my job. 
I like what I Am Redeemed says about inviting more of the same.  Basically I have to get out of the habit of sending out invitations to an event that I do not want to attend. 

[I Am Redeemed]

I know that disregulation is inevitable. But does that mean that peace is an impossibility in this relationship?

It depends on how you define "peace".

Will she ever stop attempting to bait you into arguments and accusing you of things you did not say/do? Will she ever stop trying to place blame for every negative feeling she has squarely in your lap?

Maybe not.

What you can do is find ways to create peace for yourself. I understand not wanting to go the complete apathetic route. But basically, the tools here are for us. Not them. They are not meant to change another person. They are meant to help us change how we cope with and respond to the difficult person in our lives.

A lot of it is about boundaries. Boundaries do not necessarily change the behavior of others But they do help us define what we will or will not accept according to our values. Part of boundaries is not letting another person define for us what is and what is not our responsibility.

If you read the book "Boundaries" by Cloud and Townsend, they discuss how we have a responsibility to others and for ourselves. Part of the responsibility we have for ourselves is not allowing ourselves to be mistreated by others. That is taking care of ourselves, for which we are responsible.

You do not have to sit and listen to tirades of verbal abuse that tell you how you have screwed up whatever it is you supposedly screwed up. You do not have to read through volumes and volumes of texts that unleash verbal abuse upon you for not answering the phone on someone else's timetable.

Have you seen this workshop on the Community Built Knowledge Base board?

Stop Accusations and Blaming

and this one:

How to Take a Time Out

[RestlessWanderer]

Thanks for the great input Redeemed. I see your point.

While I see that there is a way to live within the chaos, and with patience and persistence some of the behaviors may come to an end. A thickening of my skin will also be necessary. But there exists another layer of complexity here, my son. I fear that growing up watching us, his idea of what marriage is will be skewed. He will see and hear his mom as she disregulates with me in the crosshairs. I understand that I can “establish” boundaries which may keep her from escalating and may extinguish some behaviors as long as I remain steadfast in my conviction to no longer reward them.
The alternative is to divorce and create 1/2 of his life that is free of these toxic behaviors. Unfortunately the other half could become much more disregulated and leave him vulnerable as a potential new target, especially as he becomes a teenager.
So what’s worse? Keeping his family intact, but teaching him that some relationships are just effed up, but manageable?Or two homes, one with peace and the other with potential to be exponentially worse than it is now?

I doubt that anyone has the answers. But insight to your decision making process is welcome.

[globalnomad]

But there exists another layer of complexity here, my son. I fear that growing up watching us, his idea of what marriage is will be skewed. He will see and hear his mom as she disregulates with me in the crosshairs. I understand that I can “establish” boundaries which may keep her from escalating and may extinguish some behaviors as long as I remain steadfast in my conviction to no longer reward them.
The alternative is to divorce and create 1/2 of his life that is free of these toxic behaviors. Unfortunately the other half could become much more disregulated and leave him vulnerable as a potential new target, especially as he becomes a teenager.
So what’s worse? Keeping his family intact, but teaching him that some relationships are just effed up, but manageable?Or two homes, one with peace and the other with potential to be exponentially worse than it is now?

This is the million dollar question that I struggle with too. I really don't know what the answer is. The third option you don't mention is a ruinous custody battle. It's why for now I choose to stay, learn what i can from the tools here, and try to make things better. It ain't easy.

[RestlessWanderer]

What are you envisioning for the future once some of those issues are settled?

Hi Cat Familiar, sorry for not answering this one sooner. I guess I got caught up in the frustrations of the day.
That is a good question. I think that it’s fair to say that I’m envisioning the same thing I wanted before I ever met my wife. I hope to have a loving and equally nurturing marriage and a home that is safe, fun, and full of creative energy for my son, my wife, and me. A place where respect and honest interest is shared and observed by all.
To be honest, it doesn’t look like I will obtain that in my current marriage. I think the best I can hope for by remaining is thickening my skin, better use of the tools, maybe less disregulation, but probably not complete recovery, and everlasting tension.
I hope that what I’m dreaming of isn’t impossible.

[formflier]

I don’t know if I will ever figure out how to communicate with my uBPDw. I read every day how to validate, not to invalidate, how to not make things worse, how not to escalate, etc. I talk with my therapist once a week now (it had been every two weeks, but the endless difficulties pushed me to needing weekly sessions). 

RestlessWanderer

I've kept my eye on this thread for a bit.

Can I ask you to evaluate the "assumptions" behind how you asked the question?

Is there an assumption that if I just learned to communicate better/properly..that problems would be solved?  (I certainly used to think that)

Anyway...what I've come to realize is that "tools" are as much about "how to clean up a booboo" than they are about "preventing booboos"

Take the alarm clock/wake up issue.

"blah blah blah... flying monkeys, unicorns and you forgot to wake me up after you promised not to forget"

RW honestly has no recollection of this and remembers that tools says "don't engage about flying monkeys..unicorns... or any other silliness"

"oh babe...I'm so sorry.  I don't recall that conversation, going forward can we agree to text those requests to help with memory?"

"blah blah blah...eye of a newt, the power of greyskull and if you loved me you would remember."

Before responding RW pauses..takes a deep breath and realizes that nothing there would be wise to respond to (great tool usage), but he realizes there is immense frustration...and knows "that's valid"

"Babe...this is frustrating.  Going forward let's memorialize important agreements."  (pause and distract)

"Hey...I'm going to go pour a fresh glass of lemonade, would you like one?"

So...in my fictional account do you see all the opportunities/invitations to "fight" or "engage"? 

Anyway...especially when you first "stop engaging", expect it to feel really weird...really really weird.  For both of you...because you are doing something different.

Thoughts?

Best,

FF

[RestlessWanderer]

FF, I see what you’re getting at.
I think it’s safe to say that yes I was operating with the assumption that using the tools and validating, etc. I had the false hope that I could keep disregulation at bay.

As I progress with what I’m learning here I am starting to understand that only she has  the power to change her behavior.

In some ways it’s discouraging that there’s nothing I can do to keep her from disregulation. On the other hand, I can see that the harder I work on preventing the explosions the clearer it becomes that, despite what she may say, I don’t bear the responsibility for the state of our relationship.

I still have room for improvement, but I’ll let go of the expectation of my growth rubbing off on her.

[formflier]

Think of it more that you control the "fuel" or the "oxygen" for the "fire".  Fire being dysregulation.

Sure, she might start it, but if you remove the fuel, it will burn out rather quickly or just smolder for a while.

Still quite frustrating to deal with.  Then after a few times of this, perhaps you notice that she doesn't start quite as big a fire.

It's a long process..

Best,

FF

[TrulyMadlyDeeply]

My two cents: I long ago set a boundary, I guess without realizing, about how we treat the kids.

His parents arguing in front of him (his dad once jumped out of a moving car while his mom was driving) was such a traumatic thing for him to witness, he didn't want that for our sons.

He knows we don't raise our voices so the kids hear us. He likes to get loud and swear and they don't need that. No one does.

Does he always follow that? Nope. But I noticed if I say our boys' NAMES and about lowering his voice (he will get louder and louder) so THE BOYS NAMES don't hear during an argument (before I knew about BPD), it would eventually help. Yes, he would get more mad, but he would keep it quieter.

Same with him swearing at me.

But now, of course, everything feels different KNOWING he has BPD (even if we don't know for sure yet).

And now, I guess, I'm scared in a way I wasn't before.

[RestlessWanderer]

Think of it more that you control the "fuel" or the "oxygen" for the "fire".  Fire being dysregulation
FF I definitely understand that analogy.
While facing the inferno I struggle to think of something to say, especially something that won’t be jet fuel. So, I usually just stay quiet. That is about the only thing I can do to keep from making things worse. I’m one of those people that walks away from a situation then thinks of all the clever or appropriate things to say. I’m not quick on my feet in those situations, and especially not with my wife. She is as good as a trial lawyer. She gets me bumbling and fumbling in no time. In fact she actually did that to a trial attorney once.
So the most effective way of setting these boundaries is just not participating and at the very least saying why I’m walking away.

[globalnomad]

Think of it more that you control the "fuel" or the "oxygen" for the "fire".  Fire being dysregulation
 I’m not quick on my feet in those situations, and especially not with my wife. She is as good as a trial lawyer. She gets me bumbling and fumbling in no time. In fact she actually did that to a trial attorney once.

I know these are not laughing matters but I laughed out loud at this because I feel exactly the same way. Even when I am 100% in the right my wife has a way of making me feel like I am bumbling and fumbling my words on the witness stand. My wife and yours should start a law firm ;)

[formflier]

So...why not use this observation to your advantage.

Soften your voice, lean in..perhaps put your hand on her arm or shoulder.

Babe..it's me.  I'm here.  This sounds important.  Let's talk and also stay out of the courtroom.

If she persists...excuse yourself.

If she softens...thank her.


Best,

FF

[Diddle]

As I progress with what I’m learning here I am starting to understand that only she has  the power to change her behavior.

In some ways it’s discouraging that there’s nothing I can do to keep her from disregulation. On the other hand, I can see that the harder I work on preventing the explosions the clearer it becomes that, despite what she may say, I don’t bear the responsibility for the state of our relationship.

RW - I had this exact conversation with a friend yesterday, she is my voice of reason when I'm doubting myself. What I want from this marriage I have accepted I am never going to get.
My actions and words can only pacify the situation for myself, and try to keep my husband calmer. But I don't know that he will ever have the ability to consider my feelings or needs.

But now, of course, everything feels different KNOWING he has BPD (even if we don't know for sure yet).

And now, I guess, I'm scared in a way I wasn't before.

TrulyMadlyDeeply - I couldn't agree more, learning about BPD has opened my eyes, and literally made me reevaluate everything that has happened previously in our marriage, and made me realise things I blamed myself for, weren't my fault.

It has made me hugely sad for the time and relationships I have lost, and whilst its also made me look at my future, I also gradually can feel my old self coming back, letting go what my husband has made me. It's very scary, but not all bad.

How are you doing today?

[RestlessWanderer]

Hi Diddle,
Thanks for your post. I am doing ok today. I’ve gotten over the frustration from yesterday. I just got done with a session with my T. Right now I’m reflecting on some of the same things you talked about in your post. Namely dealing with how to balance my peace of mind knowing that regardless of the blame put on me, there isn’t a thing I can do to improve things between my wife and I. There is plenty I can do to make it worse, definitely don’t want that. So I’m dealing with simultaneous emotions: sadness that my relationship with this amazing woman doesn’t look like it will ever improve, peace knowing that I really am not at fault, and growing inner strength as the real me reemerges from the shadows. I’m trying to increase the separation between myself and the frustration that the tools won’t help to open her eyes. But I am happy that the tools will help me to find solid ground as long as I remain in the midst of this constant turmoil surrounding my wife.

[TrulyMadlyDeeply]

I'm...okay. I had a dream last night where he was who I thought he was (before I saw the abuse and all of that mess). I woke up with a feeling of loss -- and relieved because I dreamed I was hugely pregnant and didn't realize it! Haha!

His fam doc appt. for the referral is today.

I'd like to be hopeful.

He said such conflicting statements yesterday as well as what seems to be the classic, "I don't like your therapist much. It doesn't seem like you're getting any better."

Well, thank you. Thank you so much. Now tell me about those *unicorns eating cupcakes* ridiculous conflicting statements right here*.

When he asked for space, I gave it, then listened to music and didn't let him slow me down.

[formflier]

He said such conflicting statements yesterday as well as what seems to be the classic, "I don't like your therapist much. It doesn't seem like you're getting any better."
 

Fastball for you to hit out of the park..

"Oh my...your observations are very important, I'm sure my T would want to hear directly from you."

It is rare that discussing each others therapy...outside of therapy, turns out well. 

Thoughts?

FF

[Diddle]

RestlessWanderer - I could have written your reply myself. My focus now is on me, and I'm pleased yours is too, you'll feel stronger and more in control as the days go on.

TrulyMadlyDeeply - I remember the days when my husband was that person I wanted forever, where the marriage was what it should be. Makes me sad, that it changed so quickly and never returned. I don't know about you, but I feel angry at myself, for letting it carry on for so long and not sticking up for myself sooner. I guess life is one big lesson.

My husband had his referral 3 weeks ago, and has been much better since, for the first time in weeks, there have been no explosions of rage. I think hearing from someone else that I was right in my bpd prediction, has made him think more.
He is now on medication too, but for me his mood change, feels like him doing as she has told him, rather than feeling sincere at the moment. She's told him to be more aware of his own mood and to take himself away from us when he feels be may struggle, so we have barely seen him every weekend because we make him stressed. Maybe thats why its calm

Feeling hopeful for you, that you can at least have a little of the respite I've had, although after years of manipulation, I feel like I can't switch my own emotions on or let my guard down.

I'm so pleased you took yourself away and immersed yourself in your music instead. Hope did his appointment go?

[TrulyMadlyDeeply]

I guess he's told me for so many years that we are different than everyone else, that we have something no one else does, that no one else feels this way...that it's hard to even imagine I could find contentment elsewhere. (I hesitate to use the word "happiness" after reading "The Happiness Trap."

But last night, we were watching "The Umbrella Academy" (season 2), and I just found myself yearning for a different type of relationship. Stability. Maturity. Dependability. Talking and laughing in the dark in bed.

I'm respecting the whole "needing space" thing. I'm just not sure what it means and I don't think he does either. He's started being affectionate again and I don't know how to respond. The same night he asked for space, he sent a half naked pic to me. I just don't even know what to do.

He headed to the hardware store for junk for his 3D printer. It's about the only hobby he has stuck with for more than a year. Too bad it's also not cheap. Ha. He slept for 12 hours last night, not getting up until almost 10. That's a typical thing for him. He used to set an alarm or ask me to wake him. Sleeping too much has always been an issue.

When the kids were young, it made me furious. I didn't get to sleep in. I can say "EVER" here and it would actually be accurate. Now, I'm grateful for the break.

Even with the limited time I saw him this morning, he managed to text, "How old are you? Either so young you think whatev is the new slang or so old you forgot the rest of the word" because I responded with "Ha whatev" to be funny in response to one of his texts this morning.

he's insisted a Mexican restaurant is in one town when I know he said it was in another. I kept my mouth shut. Pretty sure he'll use it as an excuse to reach out to a younger married woman at work, if that is who mentioned it. I hope she has a good head on her shoulders. He kept talking about picking up "dry burritos." The oldest said, "Uh, can't we pick out what we want?" Funny! Husband responded with, "well, I think it's 45 minutes away..." But what's the difference?

Anyway. He did keep the doc appt. From her pic on the summary he brought home, she's young and cute. I'm sure he charmed her. I doubt he mentioned specifics about why the referral.

He mentioned talking about a vasectomy with her. We've discussed that too for a couple years now. Curious as to why NOW. Or maybe I'm not.

He did get a referral for the psychiatrist but not until Oct 16. *sad panda* Too far!

I spoke with the therapist MY therapist recommended as someone who will work in tandem with her. Mine will speak with me, his will speak with him, and with our permission (already have mine), they will compare notes. Figure out what to do together. I'm hoping he has more frequent sessions than once a week. We shall see.

She is fitting him in TODAY at 2:30. Video.

Of course, he complained about that too this morning when I reminded him he had to be back in time for the video at 2:30. "A video? *grumble grumble grumble* It also DOESN'T MATTER as he had to have phone calls with his last therapist before when the office was closed.

I've often felt he was immature. Lacked common sense about the most ridiculous of things.

Example? When we were not married near as long, back in those early years, he would run late for work. But he wouldn't bother with a shower or even brushing his teeth! "I'm late! I have to go!" Whoa, there. You are already late! At least you should smell good and look presentable! He does try to skip showers on late mornings with a "but I took one last night!" Yes, but that was the afternoon after a run or simply because you are an adult and could use it!

Sigh. I didn't mean to blab on and on. I seem to have zero self control about blabbing now. It's like I held it all in for so long, that valve broke off, and zip! Zam! Zoom! bounced off a few walls on the way out the window...and lost.

RW, do you feel like he's making progress? Has anyone told you what to expect?

It often feels so hopeless. I wish I could see more success stories about people with BPD who also have dived into sex. Add in his issues with food and exercise and needing control and treating women like objects and it feels like TOO MUCH.

Not to mention the whole thing with parenting two kids too. I'd like to think he'll take care of us for the kids, but I don't even know this person. But, how could I? He doesn't know himself either.

Last night, for example, the oldest, H, and I played "Munchkin." At the very end, I won. They didn't have cards. I threw down two other cards to show it didn't matter if they did, because I could keep going. Husband said I won, he moved to put cards away, and the oldest threw down a monster card, which meant I couldn't win. I said it was already too late, we were done. That kid HAS GOT TO MAKE DECISIONS FASTER. Anyway.

Husband decides it's fine, the kid says I can't pick up the cards I had thrown down (even though I wouldn't have thrown them if he had put his card down when he should have). Husband tells me to stop pouting. My point is there are rules! You can't agree the game is done and THEN decide it's not. And THEN decide to keep making up new rules to ensure it's not a fair match. And then NOT expect me to become frustrated!

Total mood of the room changed and I know it was my fault. My reaction to all the stupid. But it just felt like one more way he wanted to keep me down. And making the teenager believe I'm overreacting instead of forcing him to keep to the rules. So UGH I DID overreact.

Husband would normally want to be done, as he hadn't felt like a game anyway, but he hates when I win (and I usually do).

I guess part of it is that I received an invite for an interview on a live radio show. The host sent a wonderful email, praising my book, said he loved it,  but then lost it under a pile of papers, and would love to have me on his show now, that he'd already let my publisher know.

I guess I just feel the loss of that website and all it represented. He was the one who made me feel like I should drop it, but that's a long story in itself. Since we moved out of state, it's not even an option to pick it back up.

So, this morning. The dishwasher unloading has long been a thing with my husband. Up until now, we've always had awful dishwashers. You had to unload the bottom first, or the water and potential dirty water, would splash onto the bottom dishes and they'd need to be cleaned all over again. He made it sound like I was controlling. He loves to tell everyone that I even think there's a right and wrong way to unload the dishwasher. I really hate that.

This morning, the oldest had put a fork face-up in the tray. The kid argued with me about it, because my husband had loaded them all in that way the first time (has a grid system and only way to use that is to put silverware bottom-up).

Long, long ago, long before marriage, I had worked at a home store, and I learned from a product rep video you should NEVER do that with your silverware. The oldest (15 year old) told me it cleans them better blah blah blah. I got mad. I did. I hate that I did but OMG I am tired of being told I am wrong all the time, I told him that I used to run that department, that I KNOW, and to STOP arguing about it.

And now he went off with husband to run errands (= spend money at hardware store). Teen has been just ALL ABOUT DAD. It does bother me. I kept up the lies about how Dad cares, Dad couldn't call because of a meeting, Dad really wants to see *whatever item here* when he gets home. I made the lies to make it sound good. Last year, when Husband was finally present, it seemed like it was all for real and true. Husband doesn't snap at the oldest like he does at the youngest, but he does put him down too much. Oldest didn't even notice husband's general anger. Is it because he's a teen or something else? The 10 year old mentioned it when we talked. I just don't know.

Well.

I'm trucking along on my website at least. Well, "trucking" isn't the right word. Trying to figure out where I left off and what I was thinking is difficult (he erased my whiteboard for interviews. He took pics, but it was so long ago now). But, I am motivated.

I reached out to my client about withholding my pay and not releasing it to PayPal right now and gave an abbreviated version why. It was awkward. I asked him not to respond via email on weekends or after 3 my time during the week. So, I hope to find out Monday if that's even possible. I sure hope so.

I saved up enough last year for a family vacation. While I don't expect to have that amount of work this year, you never know. And that would be a better way to begin if he does something stupid.

Does your wife have money spending sprees?

It's hard to keep mine grounded and remind him about his plans to pay off debt. TWO YEARS all debt but the house could be paid off. I don't know if I can hang on that long, but if he DID enter therapy and was receptive like your spouse, I'd feel better about sticking around (and saving my own money on the side just in case we had to flee). If we ever got to the point where he was stable and I felt good, then it was money I saved for a family vacation. No harm done.

The hard part is that now we DO have money like we never have before. New job = substantial pay increase. But I also know that spending money keeps him from screwing around. Ha, he just texted about getting a fire stick for the TV. OMG we don't need another TV! Yes, movers broke one, but right now, we are good.

It would be easier if he hadn't turned his focus back to me this past year. But experiencing him all patient and present and all of that makes this flip-flopping all the more difficult. I recognize now that *I* was maybe at some sort of breaking point. I think I just flipped off my own self there and let him take over. He was picking out my clothes at one point because he "needed that control." And I made myself think I'm all submissive like that.

HAHAHAHA As IF! (and that circles back to my "whatev" comment above. LOL)

At the time, I honestly didn't care. When those feelings started to bubble up, a week or so after the move, I just got all confused...

I hope you have a chance for some peace and rest. Keep remembering the bad everything was never about you. It helps, I think. Now that I've dumped this on you too. Haha But hey, you're not alone! That's something.

[RestlessWanderer]

TMD, I could have written some of your post myself. I’m surprised how many times I’ve encountered that on here too.
Don’t feel bad for a second for venting on here. That’s what we’re here for.
I totally understand your frustrations over their need to be right, or to prove us wrong. Just the other night my wife was showing our 7yo son a puzzle/map. She was showing him how North America could be placed on either side of the other section. When I pointed out that the map was missing Russia and the rest of Asia, she got mad at me and made it seem like I was wrong and I always have to correct her. I just walked away. It happens like that all the time. It’s not like I was rude or condescending. She wasn’t even open to listen at all.
You mentioned about my spouse’s progress. Unfortunately, there has been none. At all. Ever. She’s seen 4-5 therapists over the last 8 years or so, but has never seen one for even 5 sessions. She is also very charming, which is probably how she’s avoided any diagnosis. The closest she ever came was a single conversation with a psychiatrist that mentioned the possibility of bipolar tendencies, she never went back to him.

I’ve also wondered if others here have had similar problems in the bedroom. However, our problems are on the opposite end of the spectrum. It’s been so hard for me to feign attraction due to the frequency and intensity of the insults I’ve heard from my wife. This then adds to our tension and makes us spiral down. Yet another layer of complexity to this extremely challenging relationship.

Yes, my wife does have spending sprees. She calls it shopping therapy. At least she gets thrills in bargain hunting. But I believe you save more by not spending. Over the last 10 months she’s been doing this a lot. We got a check from the life insurance after the death of our 3yo son last October, and I think the “shopping therapy” has been one of her outlets. That and she doesn’t want to hold off on things since the fragility of life gave us such a gut punch.

Thanks for the words of support. Same to you. It’s hard to keep positive when this giant negative presence taints so much. I do still consider myself a happy person and an optimist, but this is very taxing.
Just remember, don’t count on a miracle. Change is very possible, but it will be a tough journey. I hope that’s not to ominous, but we have to be completely realistic looking forward. It all depends on the work they put in. We can work on ourselves, that is crucial. But only they have the power to change themselves.
Trust me, I know how hard this all is. Everyone here does. Keep coming back and post as often as you need to. BPDfamily is here for you.

[AskingWhy]

One of the main tactics of BPD is projecting blame.  Do not buy into this projection that your W's issues are your fault.  Many of us have fallen into this trap.  It's hard, at first, buy over a period of time, you will learn your partner's issues are not your fault.

[TrulyMadlyDeeply]

I felt good feelings about him earlier...and then we watched Space Force. And it was a

SPOILER ALERT

episode about open marriage.

Now it all just hurts again. I know he is incapable of understanding. He wants everything. When he wants it. Nothing means anything to him. I know that.

But oh, I just thought marriage was going to be different. You know, respecting those vows. Growing together. Carrying each other.

I want to be able to talk to him about BPD. I see in places where people do and sometimes I think I can try again...and then other times it just feels like he is so messed up on the inside it will be impossible.

I picked him up too many times. It's all so easy for him now.

I expressed surprise that he was using his phone and it was the weekend. "Because I didn't like you." That's what he said. For the last couple of weekends he was determined not to use it, to be present.

And I'm given the answer of a 3-year-old.

He just texted, "That was a tough show."

It all just hurts. I wish I knew people here so I had someone real to talk to. Therapist appt. tomorrow morning, but also kid birthday tomorrow, so there's all that stuff to do to make him feel special.

I just wish my spouse were capable of making me feel special.

[TrulyMadlyDeeply]

So things blew up, as they have a habit of doing. I'm just not good enough at using the right words.

I pointed out that in Space Force, they are 50, and she's in jail. (I could also have said IT'S MADE UP ANYWAY or that my therapist has yet to see an open marriage work out, but that's neither here or there).

He, again, defended wanting to use a woman as an object once a year, that it's a need he has, and that I'm being selfish and controlling, and once again denying his needs, and that I'm always right.

He brought up the %#(*&#(*$#  dishwasher again about how I'm controlling about that! (see above) I said, that wasn't being controlling, it was an awful dishwasher. What did he care if dishes had to be rewashed? He didn't do them.

I mentioned that he has tried all of that before. He has spent most of his life depressed. I told him it didn't work. When will enough be enough?

More words were exchanged. He tried to tell me that he's been in therapy for six years (or something), that I've barely been in it, that his last therapist said he was not BPD and neither did this one (something to that effect). This wasn't something I knew about with his last therapist.

Tells me I'm not getting any better. I told him if that is the way he felt, then that's serious, I'd sign a release, and he's welcome to speak with my therapist. He called her whatever names and jumped to something else.

Basically, how dare I tell him he can't sleep around when he wants.

It felt over. I was in the dining room, cleaning up the unused birthday decorations (youngest is 11 today) and sob escaped. Guess he was headed up the stairs and told me to stop being dramatic, that our oldest is heading to bed.

Last night I kept thinking about ultimatums. I kept wondering if I could really hang in there long enough to feel more comfortable financially about leaving. But mentally, I don't think I can. If there wasn't Covid, I could at least be GONE on the weekends...but then again, the whole sex thing, and the possibility of him sleeping around behind my back gives me BIG pause. If you remember from a previous thread, he thought donating blood was an effective STD test. :|  I used to tell the kids he was a hero for doing that. He was sitting right there and didn't say a word.

He's been passive aggressive or is it just a cycle? for the last couple weeks now. He's set his alarm to a very loud level...and ignores it. That has long been an issue. After nights up with a sick kid or growing pains with a kid or whatever over the years, I couldn't get back to sleep...and he didn't care. Until this past year. Then he stopped doing that.

He got ready and left the room. No shower, I noticed. That's not a good sign. He used to give me a hug and kiss before leaving. I had read something ages ago about how that guarantees job success. It's just one of those couple-y things we do, ya know? He did that this morning. Just a hug, just held me. Made me cry because I've felt so...just lonely. He said, "well, it wasn't supposed to make you cry." He said something grabbing a ****. He did and I made a noise of protest, he said (jokingly) that he had warned me. He then told me, "I still love you." and left.

I thought maybe I could get through this until his therapy can kick in and he can eventually get meds and maybe see the light. So many maybes. I realize that.

But then...

Wait. I still love you? As though I am the one who did something wrong by asking him to respect our marriage?

Anyway. Last night I know he was awake while I was quietly crying. I don't know what he is thinking right now.

I keep thinking about taking the kids to a rental on a beach somewhere. My car is big enough to pack food, etc. so we wouldn't need contact with anyone but gas pumps. They are elearning anyway. 

I'm considering telling him he needs to get help, to leave and let him think about it for a week while we would be gone, and then to come back and see what he says.

I just don't know if I can go back to doing EVERYTHING all over again, with the added stress of kids here all day elearning, not being able to really go anywhere due to Covid, not knowing anyone here, and trying to remember everything BPD so I don't keep screwing up. And I keep screwing up.

He sent a text already this morning (I chose to ignore it for 45 minutes). He wrote:

I love you. I do.



This isn't what love is supposed to be. At least, it doesn't feel like this is the way it should be. But if I leave, what would that mean for him? His future?

I just don't know if an ultimatum is the right step either.

He has listened to me in the past. He really has. Sometimes I feel like if I can just catch him at the right time...but I no longer know when the "right time" to talk about a mental illness is!

I just miss talking and laughing in the dark before bed so much.

I don't feel like I have much in the way of options.

[formflier]

So...you obviously are willing to go to great lengths to give this relationship a chance.

I would encourage you to get the release signed and speak to his therapist.  Make sure (we can help) that you have a couple succinct things to say and/or perhaps a few things you are not understanding that he is trying to communicate.

Then...speak with therapist and get her point of view.

Have a few questions about what the therapist thinks might be possible as far as "growth" or "getting better".

There are lots of other issues swirling around here...but I think it best to focus on this one thing.

What do you think?

Best,

FF