Did your BPD ex ever refer to themselves in the 3rd person?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Just a question for others
Did your BPD ex ever refer to themselves in the 3rd person?
My ex did this frequently,  especially in the early days
It was actually one of the red flags early on that alerted me to there being some underlying issue
Curious as to whether or not this is common?

[Andy1963]

Just a question for others
Did your BPD ex ever refer to themselves in the 3rd person?
My ex did this frequently,  especially in the early days
It was actually one of the red flags early on that alerted me to there being some underlying issue
Curious as to whether or not this is common?

[Ragdolllover]

Gosh it's so sad that there's so many people affected by this in a similar way.

My ex has blocked me this morning, so I  facing down the prospect of (unwanted) no contact the same as you...

I guess it just takes time in a way and some serious processing. I'm watching a lot of videos on how to move on. This has been my favourite so far...

https://youtu.be/W6BYAjhjt38

[jaded7]

I have found 2010s post to be a godsend
This below is something I have first hand experience of, its actually quite surreal,  as if someone is describing my experiences in detail

For instance, you could be driving a car with a person suffering from BPD in the passenger seat, and if the perception of your driving is poor (real or imagined, it doesn't matter)- a BPD will freak out because they feel a loss of the self. This leads to annihilation fears that they have attached to you and now regret that attachment. Their want increases their frustration of being their own person- which they cannot be without YOU. Unable to be in the driver's seat, their reaction is one of intense, locked pain. The learned helplessness has turned them into caged animals- and they must erupt in rage to lash out at their own inability to get free.

Andy. I literally had this experience in real life. I took her and her son to the airport once and she told me I had driven very dangerously and scared her son. I was flabbergasted...I'm an excellent driver, have never had an accident, and don't remember anything happening at all. She then, for a full year, would constantly remind me that I'm a sh**ty drive, horrible driver, and she is never riding with me again. I could not honestly believe she was saying it and didn't believe it. The week before I last saw her I offered to pick up her sister and niece and the airport for her and ...long, dramatic pause...she said "your messing with me now". I said what? She said "your really playing with me, aren't you?" I told her I had no idea what she was talking about. She said "I told you you are the worst driver ever and I'm never riding with you again, and I'm never having a family member ride with you, and when you say these things it makes me feel like you don't listen to me".

[Andy1963]

The similarities are uncanny
A few months into our relationship we went on a trip to a city about two hours from home
She drove there and I was to drive back
As we were leaving the city to head home she suddenly started to get angry with me for my driving, like yourself I'm a very experienced and I believe, good driver, no accidents in 30 years of driving
By the time we had got to the outskirts of the city she was screaming at me.
I eventually said, 'do you want to drive'
' Yes she said, and I dropping you at the bus station so you can get a bus home, I don't want to be in the car with you'
I was incredulous, needless to say I refused to do that instead suggesting that we just don't speak for the whole journey back
Eventually she calmed down and apologised and things were essentially forgotten about
This sort of thing happened many many times during our time together, irrational and quite frightening ...

[Andy1963]

Essentially these are the glitches I have realised were a common theme throughout our relationship

[Andy1963]

Every night when we were apart I would send her songs, a display of how much I loved her and was thinking about her
This should have been the last song I sent as it speaks volumes

https://youtu.be/xO82mi-G6H0

[jaded7]

This driving thing I've heard several times on these boards. I think it's a way to both criticize and control, or a way of expressing being out of control.

I remember I once pulled up to a light preparing to turn right. The sign said no turns on red, I saw it and had no intention of turning on red. She started in on me for turning on red, which I hadn't done and had no intention of doing. She continued with reading my mind that I was going to turn on red and it would be wrong. I told her I had no intention of turning on red. She told me I was too close to the corner and it looked like I was going to turn on red. I told her again I wasn't and I wasn't even close to be too close to the corner. She continued with I'll get a ticket if I turn on red, I told her again that I'm not turning on red. And some point I said you are telling me you can read my mind? And that an officer would read my mind and give me a ticket for sitting here, completely still, waiting for the light to turn green, for a thought that I might turn on red? A thought I didn't have?

It was crazy. Once on a long drive together with her son I asked her if she was tired and would like me to take over driving (she always had to drive...even before the 'incident'). I thought of asking this as a way to show love and shared responsibility and respect for her and to show her son how a man treats a woman with respect by sharing responsibilities...her response

Glare at me, "M...that's patronizing" Asking the woman you love if you can help with a long drive is patronizing.

[Andy1963]

The driving issue was a big thing for us for a long time , she then seemed to adjust and realise that it was her problem and not reality
So in the latter part of our relationship it was less of an issue
Its the irrationally about it that was so difficult to understand
Now I do understand

[Andy1963]

The actual reality of our breakup is starting to really hit now
For weeks I've been in limbo, self imposed,  where I sort of believed that it was all a fantasy
That she would contact me with a view to getting back together
Yet , this new relationship has put a whole new spin on things, I still, every day, feel incredulous that she has done this, over all the times we argued,  broke up etc, I still had this blind faith that we would get back together and resolve things,  even though it was essentially recycling,  and all I had to do was essentially do nothing and she came back and apologised and we carried on
But all of a sudden,  shes completely gone, its just so completely weird
Im still struggling to process it

[Andy1963]

Don't know why, but I spent some time earlier trawling through 3 years of messages between us, 1000s of messages
I needed some clarity, some understanding
A couple of things became clear
There was barely a week that passed when we didn't have a falling out, always due to her glitches and me trying to make sense of things and reason with her, but some things I had forgotten in the Fog
There was a period where she was completely accepting of the fact that she needed help, she constantly referred to her imbalance and promised to get help to fix herself, why did I forget the realness of this, the messages were so relevant. she told me I didn't deserve how she treated me, that she was the common denominator in all of her failed relationships
She actually used the word 'broken' to describe herself
My messages were always clear, supportive, stating my intentions to always be by her side, I had completely forgotten how raw it had become at that time
I suppose I eventually gave up hope that she would ever get the help she needed and gradually began to move away
This in turn, triggered her abandonment issues and she looked for a new source
That every word I said to her was heartfelt and that none of hers were hurts like hell
Yet our breakup was like breaking up with a stranger, and the night she met me to tell me she was in a new relationship was like talking to someone I barely knew, yet three weeks before she said I was the love of her life
What on earth is this all about. that you can devote yourself totally to someone, they tell you continually that you are their world, then suddenly, boom, they disappear
Why did I put myself through it?
I've no idea

[jaded7]

The actual reality of our breakup is starting to really hit now
For weeks I've been in limbo, self imposed,  where I sort of believed that it was all a fantasy
That she would contact me with a view to getting back together

I've been feeling this way for months too. I can't seem to let go. I keep thinking that she'll realize how kind and loving I was to her, how horribly she treated me, perhaps do some deep work to understand why she'd treat such a kind and loving soul the way she did, and then she'll contact me. This hasn't happened, and it leaves me with no closure since she just yelled and me and called me names over the phone and that was it...we never actually met, talked about the relationship, never said that it was over, etc.

I see below you went through all the messages. I would find that so painful to do, but it seems to have given you some clarity. You do have clarity...she told you she is disordered, you have in writing that she treated you horribly...that must be a relief.

I don't have any of that. I don't have a diagnosis for her, although my therapists all say that they are certain there is some kind of cluster b disorder going on, she never apologized for anything ever.

[Andy1963]

Yes it did give me clarity
But it was also extremely painful
Because amongst all the difficulties there were the messages that displayed our love for each other
At least my words of love, i always meant everything i said, i know now her words were mirroring
We need to hold firm on the reality that this a disorder
The disorder always wins, no-one is above it
Thats what has helped me so much, realising there was nothing i could have done to change this, believe me, i tried so so hard
I gave my heart and soul and every ounce of energy and emotion to it, it was and could never have ever been enough
The last time we met she acknowledged how good i had been to her
Yet i felt completely patronised
Knowledge is power, learn about this condition,  understand it, that will set you free

[Goosey]

Driving.
Haha.
I live on a rural road. Which no matter if you exit left or right out of driveway you end up on the  nearest highway. Same distance either way.
  Anytime I was driving and pulled out of driveway my (future ex) wife would snap “why are you going this way”.
I would play it in my head the minute we got in the car.
  Ah memories. 

[Andy1963]

Im at an interesting place in my head at the moment
My memories of her and our relationship are filled with the glitches and the upset she constantly caused
Her selfishness which knew no bounds and which she seemed oblivious to
Many strange patterns of behaviour,  she would say that she believed her own daughter was jealous of her?
They had a strained relationship,  in fact i think her daughter has BPD elements herself
But to state that she would be jealous of her own mother, who thinks like that?
Im wondering how long now before she glitches with the new man
Im an extremely patient person, i put up with things many men would never have accepted,  and to be honest, i really shouldn't have either
How long now before the cracks show and Martha ( my name for her alter ego)comes out to play...

[jaded7]

Im at an interesting place in my head at the moment
My memories of her and our relationship are filled with the glitches and the upset she constantly caused
Her selfishness which knew no bounds and which she seemed oblivious to
Many strange patterns of behaviour,  she would say that she believed her own daughter was jealous of her?
They had a strained relationship,  in fact i think her daughter has BPD elements herself
But to state that she would be jealous of her own mother, who thinks like that?
Im wondering how long now before she glitches with the new man
Im an extremely patient person, i put up with things many men would never have accepted,  and to be honest, i really shouldn't have either
How long now before the cracks show and Martha ( my name for her alter ego)comes out to play...

I'm patient too, accepting...but I also realize that there came a point in the relationship where I was bonded/attached in such a way that I was afraid to speak up, to tell her that language was inappropriate, that tone was condescending, that I deserved to be treated with respect, that cancelling commitments at the last second were disrespectful (when she had previously browbeat me for months that not keeping a Google calendar was childish and I had ruined an 'entire summer' by not keeping a calendar- have no idea what that means- so we sat together and made a calendar for the summer with nights and weekends we'd spend together...then she cancelled the first three at the last second, pretended to not remember scheduling a weekend at my place even though it was a shared calendar and she lives by looking at her calendar every day, many times a day), that yelling is no acceptable...I was afraid she'd leave me if I spoke up.

[jaded7]

I'm patient too, accepting...but I also realize that there came a point in the relationship where I was bonded/attached in such a way that I was afraid to speak up, to tell her that language was inappropriate, that tone was condescending, that I deserved to be treated with respect, that cancelling commitments at the last second were disrespectful (when she had previously browbeat me for months that not keeping a Google calendar was childish and I had ruined an 'entire summer' by not keeping a calendar- have no idea what that means- so we sat together and made a calendar for the summer with nights and weekends we'd spend together...then she cancelled the first three at the last second, pretended to not remember scheduling a weekend at my place even though it was a shared calendar and she lives by looking at her calendar every day, many times a day), that yelling is no acceptable...I was afraid she'd leave me if I spoke up.

And I would agree, almost all of her behavior was 'self-ish' what I need to do for her, what is wrong with me, what I'm not good at, what she 'needs', what I screwed up. I felt like my needs were never even considered. I need communication- days to respond to my texts, but if I took a day to respond to her huge attack. If I turned her down for sex huge fight attacking me and how I make her feel, she turned me down for sex and ignored my requests to come to my place for months...turned me down, angrily I should add, 4 times in a single weekend. I simply said ok, sleep well honey. But if I turn HER down, once, she explodes with anger. Never asked me if I needed help with anything, I constantly told her I'd be glad to help her with projects and jobs.

Never came to my business events, not once. I asked her and she said 'no'. Asked her to come to brewpub with me I wanted to explore (I like learning about different beer types), she laughed at the suggestion and said she hates brewpubs. Yet she asked me to come to all sorts of events for her social life- her son's theater group fundraisers, I volunteered for the shows, hung posters for it in my business...and I gladly did it. I told her I wanted to have a party at my place for her to meet friends and clients, she said "no, why would I want to be around a person like ______" and friend of mine she'd never met.

And so on...I ran a business where I was in there 7 days a week, often at 5:20 in the morning, never once offered to come in and help me with anything. She does an email marketing side job, told me I"m a sh*tty marketer, sh*tty businessman, but never once offered to help me with the marketing or anything else.

[Goosey]

My not yet ex just likes to contact me every few months and scream at me about what I have done for like 20 seconds then Hang.
  But she is in limited contact with our daughter and told her I should move on and that she has.
  It will click one of these days in my brain. 
 As for her new relationship. Hope he guards his finances closely.
  All about the purse.

[Andy1963]

So here I am today
After weeks of working hard at detachment, keeping myself busy with work and other activities
Trying so hard not to ruminate or dwell or think about her
Yet the urge to contact her has been overwhelming this morning
Really fighting the urge so hard
But bottom line is, I miss her
Of course I don't miss the abuse, the unpredictability, the volatility, the walking on eggshells, the self centeredness and total need for focus on her and her needs
I just miss her, those quiet moments when she lay in my arms and said that she loved me completely
Those words are constantly ringing in my ears like an echo
Yet as it has been said on here, forget the words, they mean nothing, the actions are the truth, all of them
I just need peace in my head...

[Goosey]

Could have wrote that myself.
  It’s hard. It’s depressing. So I say to myself I have to snap out of this I’m not dead yet. Covid adds to the isolation.
   That’s ironic. My separated wife berated me about  my few life long friends. She bad mouthed them and accused me of socializing to the point I became very isolated. She demanded I not speak with our extended family.
  And here I am right where she wanted me and she has moved on and in relationships already. I miss a relationship immensely but I would never subject anyone to my conflicted damaged state. 
   Before sleep was the answer but now I have to be working to feel any worth. 
   It will get better as I am becoming more realistic of what has happened and accepting it.
  It’s like swimming madly in a ocean of turmoil and violence and he reaching a jutting rock on the other side and just sitting there looking out in shock.
   Clinical depression at this point. I’ll admit it.

[Goosey]

Sorry. Not very uplifting. All I got.

[stressftw]

Time will inevitably heal you
I was in your position several months ago
Alot of similarities
I couldnt even believe what was happening
Im feeling way better now, i was hopeless, suicidal, betrayed and in denial.
The scar will remain for the rest of your life, the difference is that it wont bother you anymore, eventually you will see clear through it, without the fog of the feelings
You will realize that it was a necessary step to make you stronger, u will eventually be thankful that things ended and your not linked to this person anymore
One of the best things one with BPD can do with their loved ones is to discard them. They are literally giving you a chance to shine, to seek plenitude. Their chaos is not what you really want and is not what you deserve, you know that. U can crave for her right now, but thats part of the trauma bond. Your are unchained now that might scares you, brings you alot of suffering, but it will subside. They unfortunaly are in pain and chained for life, and right now, they are handcuffing someone with them that will go through the same dance, same process just to numb their pain. They are trapped in their own cycle til the end of their lives, your pain now, is a demonstration of how painful is their condition. Only thing you can do is to heal, and be hopeful that current and new treatments can help her in the future cause no one deserves to suffer.

[brighter future]

Andy & Goosey,

You guys aren't alone. I feel the same exact feelings towards my ex-g/f. I miss the great times we had together while she was functioning well, the intimate moments, and I miss the way she used to look at me. In all of my years, I've never had a woman look at me that way she did. On the other hand, I do not miss her unpredictable moods, her constantly changing viewpoints and principles, and the self-centeredness. I feel like I was doing fairly well with things until I received her text message last week after 5 months of NC. Today, I feel like I'm starting  to rebound from that.

Like you said, their actions are the truth. I had something happen yesterday that reinforced that in regards to my ex. My attorney agreed to handle a post divorce matter for my ex-g/f (related to her ex-husband). He and I spoke last evening, and I asked him if they were able to finalize this matter. According to him, he lined up everything needed to complete the task, and all he needed was her to give the green light to proceed and fill out/sign some documents. Then he would file everything with the court for her.  He tried to reach her for weeks via text, email, and actual phone calls. Finally after many attempts, he said that he got a reply from her that was "very snarky and kind of rude" and never heard a word from her again. I said, "So she never followed up with you any further or offered to pay you for what you had already done?" He said she never offered to pay for what he'd done and that it wasn't a big deal, as he only had about 30 minutes of time into the whole matter. He was just going to cut his losses and forget about it. Funny thing is, told me this: "I'm so glad you didn't end up marrying this girl. I'm afraid that you would have gone down a similar road with her that you did with your ex-wife. You don't deserve to go through that twice."  He helped out during the final two years of my divorce/custody battle with my BPD ex-wife. You read that right. I have a BDP ex-wife, and a uBPD ex-g/f. I don't need anymore of these relationships!

Two days ago, I found out from my BPD ex-wife that she was going away to an inpatient treatment center again. This means I'll have to parent our child completely on my own while she's gone, which I do not mind. I have majority custody anyway.  This will be her 7th inpatient stay since 2013, and she's been in continuous treatment (including outpatient) since 2012. Both of my exes are messed up but my BPD ex-wife makes my uBPD ex-g/f look healthy.

Think healthy thoughts, do healthy things, and I will be thinking about you. I will do the same. Best wishes!

[jaded7]

@andy1963

Of course I don't miss the abuse, the unpredictability, the volatility, the walking on eggshells, the self centeredness and total need for focus on her and her needs
I just miss her, those quiet moments when she lay in my arms and said that she loved me completely
Those words are constantly ringing in my ears like an echo

I know. I know. I've been in the same state for months. I talk with my therapist, or a friend, and I recall how crazy she made me feel, the horrible things she said to me, the ghosting and the snapping, the evasiveness and the lies, and yet I miss her.

I simply can't make any sense of this. I'm not a stupid person, yet I can't get it through my head. I can even remember the days when she wasn't responding and the suffering they entailed, the wondering what I had done, why/if she was 'mad' at me, was she dumping me...etc.

[jaded7]

@stressftw

U can crave for her right now, but thats part of the trauma bond. Your are unchained now that might scares you, brings you alot of suffering, but it will subside.

Yes, me too. Crave is the right word.

But...but. Do I deserve to be yelled at? No. Do I deserve to be ghosted for a week before Christmas, ridiculed and snapped at in front of her family at her son's show, then deserted (without a word) over Christmas while she went up to her family's place (and she told me she was going to have me up, like last year)...just packed up and left town without saying anything to me at all as I sat here alone Christmas morning with her Christmas present I was so excited to give her. No.

Her text to me on Christmas Eve "tired. going to take some time to recalibrate." I hadn't spoken to her in three days (the show, where she humiliated me), didn't even know where she was. She packed her car, got her stuff, and drove out of town without taking 4 seconds to text me or call. Do I deserve that? No.

And I hadn't spoken to her for 4 days before the show either, as she ignored calls and invitations to lunch and texts. Do I deserve that? No.
 
Do I deserve to called a "PLEASE READty driver"? No.
Do I deserve responses to communications? Yes. Do I deserve kind and caring language? Yes. Do I deserve to know what's happening at Christmas? Yes. Should I expect respectful communication? Yes.

Do I deserve to have my Christmas present to her last year called "stupid"? No
Do I deserve having her YELL at me "you're just trying cover your ass!" when I offer to go buy the food for our camping trip? No.

I could go on. The point is, we remember the loving times, the happy times.

[stressftw]

@stressftw

U can crave for her right now, but thats part of the trauma bond. Your are unchained now that might scares you, brings you alot of suffering, but it will subside.

Yes, me too. Crave is the right word.

But...but. Do I deserve to be yelled at? No. Do I deserve to be ghosted for a week before Christmas, ridiculed and snapped at in front of her family at her son's show, then deserted (without a word) over Christmas while she went up to her family's place (and she told me she was going to have me up, like last year)...just packed up and left town without saying anything to me at all as I sat here alone Christmas morning with her Christmas present I was so excited to give her. No.

Her text to me on Christmas Eve "tired. going to take some time to recalibrate." I hadn't spoken to her in three days (the show, where she humiliated me), didn't even know where she was. She packed her car, got her stuff, and drove out of town without taking 4 seconds to text me or call. Do I deserve that? No.

And I hadn't spoken to her for 4 days before the show either, as she ignored calls and invitations to lunch and texts. Do I deserve that? No.
 
Do I deserve to called a "PLEASE READty driver"? No.
Do I deserve responses to communications? Yes. Do I deserve kind and caring language? Yes. Do I deserve to know what's happening at Christmas? Yes. Should I expect respectful communication? Yes.

Do I deserve to have my Christmas present to her last year called "stupid"? No
Do I deserve having her YELL at me "you're just trying cover your ass!" when I offer to go buy the food for our camping trip? No.

I could go on. The point is, we remember the loving times, the happy times.

U dont deserve any of this. Nobody does. Thats what hurt's the most.

Its the unexpected reality that suddenly hits us with all the lies, all the abuse, unfairness, falsehood and everything else u couldnt imagine from this person.
Unfortunately, most of BPDS and narcs arent good person. Their defense mechanism turn them into destructive and dishonest people. We cant blame them from the circunstances that made them like that, that doesnt mean they shouldnt hold account from what they do, and they will. The thing is, you wont see this, because u should take care of you, and taking caring of you means u should be away from this person.

Mine betrayed me, cheated on me while my mom was in hospital. Dumped me via message no closure. Made me feel like PLEASE READ, blocked me. To be with a person she didnt knew at all, she turned this person against me, and told everyone around her that i was crazy and that i deserve what she did.
She did that so she could protect herself, she was cruel, dishonest, hypocrite and everything u can name it.
I was literally lost, devastated. Im still heavily scarred inside. But she doesnt bring me pain anymore.
She took down one of the few persons that could be there for her. That loved and respected her.
Who's losing here? Me or her?

Im out of a relationship with someone dishonest, pathological lier, cheater, agressive and abusive.
Shes out of relationship with someone honest, that loved her, that never cheated and would never do that, and was comprehensive.

Now shes probably doing the same thing with someone that wont deserve that too.

Im free from this cycle, shes not.
Im free from someone abusive, shes not.
Because abusing people emotionally has a price and she only has to lose doing this.
She gave you the opportunity to seek someone healthy and lovable
There is someone out there that crave to find someone like you and truly love you back.
U still have a path to uncover with a new amazing person, and have a healthy relationship. Shes not.
The most perfect person in the world cant fill their emptiness, they idolize, but even their concept of "ideal person" changes. They are always suffering and perpetuating a suffering cycle, thats why they bash on the people they should love most.
With time u will have compassion for this person. Like some kind of wounded animal that you like but u have to keep distance so they cant bite and hurt you.
U cant win with them
When they are feeling "good" they feel superior to you, thus they inferiorize you, cheat on you and treat you like PLEASE READ.
When they are feeling "bad" they create a toxicity enviroment full of doubts creating problems everywhere and claiming they dont deserve to be loved by you
There is no middle ground for them
Fortunately your not them

[Andy1963]

So had my Therapy yesterday( telephone call)
And as I feared the lack of knowledge of BPD was clear
However she did seems to acknowledge that I was suffering from a form of PTSD and had obviously been deeply traumatised by the relationship and that it was extremely toxic
The main focus was on ensuring I wouldn't do anything stupid and to find some mechanism to continue healing
I mentioned the help and support that I was getting on here and she advised that this was probably the best source of additional healing as members on here have similar experiences and there is a lot of knowledge on the impact of BPD relationships
She stopped short of agreeing further psychiatry and encouraged me to pursue more self help resources
I feel as if no-one outside of this site truly understands the deep impact BPDs can have on us
I've struggled today after a couple of ok days
I'm alone this weekend due to restrictions that have came into force where I live
Really not looking forward to this weekend at all...

[Vykyng]

This whole string is enlightening to me. My wife always wants me to drive, but then complains non-stop about it, calling it dangerous, saying I make her car sick, calling me irresponsible for driving like I'm the only one if the car instead of driving like my family was in the car. Driving is a direct control activity, so while it might make sense that someone with BPD would react this way, it didn't help my understanding of how to deal with and react to it because the thought process that goes into it is so foreign to me. All it feels like is arbitrary berating and mistrust which is damaging to any relationship.

I haven't been able to make sense of any of my wife's behavior for a long time, but I internalized it because I cared about her and wanted to provide for her the best I could. I tired to keep the peace and took responsibility where I should not have. I've withstood all the treatment I've read about - anger at driving, rejection of gifts that I put time and effort into planning, disrespectful communication, and worse. I realize now that my efforts to make things better only worsened them. That seems to be a common thread with the non-BPDs until they realize what is happening.

The troubling thing for me is seeing so many posters who have separated from their BPD partner as an outcome. Please understand that I am not being judgmental here: I respect everyone's choices and everyone's experience is their own. It is troubling to me because I am brand new to my enlightenment about BPD and am hoping that there is another viable path because I care for my wife and would like to get her the help she needs to ground herself and release her from the daily prison of fear and anxiety that BPD may be creating for her, and I have children who need a stable parent in their lives.

Is there a light at the end of the tunnel that doesn't involve separation?

[Goosey]

I hope so.

 

[Goosey]

Sorry I typed a whole timeline of my ordeal then realized it was not what you where asking for.
  I failed at saving my relationship.
I do know from being on this site there are ways to engage and disengage that are helpful.
  “Walking on eggshells” is good read.
 I’m sure more enlightened folks will give you some tips.
Sincerely wish you the best. I do understand your pain.
  In retrospect I wish I understood then what I do now.
Hindsight is a b... 
  Have a decent weekend.

[jaded7]

@stressftw

If you can truly believe this, you are free!

Im out of a relationship with someone dishonest, pathological lier, cheater, agressive and abusive.
She's out of relationship with someone honest, that loved her, that never cheated and would never do that, and was comprehensive.

I'm working on getting to this. You mentioned, or someone did, the concept of trying to help a wounded animal in the forest and it kicks and bites you. I used that exact same analogy with my therapist.

And thank you for your kind words about how I didn't deserve that. I could, and I mean literally could, write out several pages of things that happened and things she said to me and the ghosting, evasion, etc. Such guilt and toxic shame I have.

Andy...how are you doing?

And the driving...just so strange to me.

[jaded7]

This whole string is enlightening to me. My wife always wants me to drive, but then complains non-stop about it, calling it dangerous, saying I make her car sick, calling me irresponsible for driving like I'm the only one if the car instead of driving like my family was in the car. Driving is a direct control activity, so while it might make sense that someone with BPD would react this way, it didn't help my understanding of how to deal with and react to it because the thought process that goes into it is so foreign to me. All it feels like is arbitrary berating and mistrust which is damaging to any relationship.

I haven't been able to make sense of any of my wife's behavior for a long time, but I internalized it because I cared about her and wanted to provide for her the best I could. I tired to keep the peace and took responsibility where I should not have. I've withstood all the treatment I've read about - anger at driving, rejection of gifts that I put time and effort into planning, disrespectful communication, and worse. I realize now that my efforts to make things better only worsened them. That seems to be a common thread with the non-BPDs until they realize what is happening.

The troubling thing for me is seeing so many posters who have separated from their BPD partner as an outcome. Please understand that I am not being judgmental here: I respect everyone's choices and everyone's experience is their own. It is troubling to me because I am brand new to my enlightenment about BPD and am hoping that there is another viable path because I care for my wife and would like to get her the help she needs to ground herself and release her from the daily prison of fear and anxiety that BPD may be creating for her, and I have children who need a stable parent in their lives.

Is there a light at the end of the tunnel that doesn't involve separation?

We had similar experiences. Rejection of gifts, taking blame where we shouldn't have. Not being able to make sense of the behavior...crazy making blame shifts, crazy making shifting of goalposts, crazy making gaslighting (I never said that, or we talked all about it for 3 months, those kinds of things you know are just completely untrue).

I was screamed at for an hour for making her birthday the "sh*ttiest ever", for giving her a 'stupid card' and and a "sh*tty gift that I got in a the checkout line at the grocery store" (not true), "putting zero effort and planning into her birthday" and "now she had to cover up for me to all her friends".

And get this...

PRECISELY 5 weeks before, she completely forgot my birthday. She had spent 10 months planning a 3 week trip to Europe, down to the hour for each day, knowing it was over my birthday, and did exactly zero planning or effort, nothing for me...no card dropped off before she left, no gift left to open on my birthday, no gift or card sent from Europe to arrive before my birthday, an hour long call ON my birthday and by the end I realized she didn't even remember it was my birthday. I gently, lovingly told her that I think she must have forgotten it was my birthday and I didn't want her to feel bad when she realized it later. Really, that was my concern, for her...that she wouldn't feel embarrassed. I didn't care, honestly and truly...my Dad forgot my birthday too and I told her that to make her feel better. And by the way, I was taking care of her dog for free to save her $800 in dog boarding fees, taking her for 3 walks a day, even though I'm allergic to her. Oh, and did I mention that before the trip to Europe she told me she had discovered that "she was going to .25 miles from her ex-boyfriend, I might stop by and say hello to him." She was able to look up an ex bf, calculate the distance to his place, but not get a card for me before she left? BTW, I got up very early in the am to take her and her son to the airport for that trip, that's the trip where I became the "sh*ttiest driver ever" and "I'm never going to ride with you again." She never once in 2 years offered to take me to or pick me up from the airport, I took Ubers for $30 or the train that took 2 hours. Not once.


Yep all true, then she shreds me to pieces 5 weeks later when I actually tried to do something nice and kind and remembered her birthday. BTW, 15 months after the first birthday of hers with us together I called the foot spa where I bought her an $85 treatment to see if she used it. Guess what? She never used it.

And so... you come here and learn that trying to talk sense to them when they are ramped up, staying calm and presenting the facts, or defending yourself from unjust accusations or lies, just provokes them worse. It's because you believe the facts will calm her down, or she'll listen to the facts. This is because you live in a fact-based world and and would acknowledge when someone presents you with facts that you are wrong. You project that kind of self-awareness onto her, I did the same thing.

I highly recommend you read the book The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans. She helped me immeasurably to make some sense of this. You are essentially operating in different worlds.

So it is shocking to come here and learn that we did the EXACT wrong thing. But, read more from those who are in relationships with pwBPD. They all say it HARD, draining, painful.

Plus, you can't blame yourself for not knowing what to do. How were you supposed to know? You couldn't.

When she ditched me at Christmas, after ghosting me again for 5 days, humiliating me in front of her family, after ghosting me several times in the previous months (and I had weeks before told her how hurtful and invalidating it was, how painful it was for her to ignore me for days..I did it perfectly, calmly, gently, lovingly...she acknowledged she'd been doing that intentionally then immediately turned it around on me and started putting me down, ramping up until she is extremely angry and belittling and out of control, storms  out of the store) then she loves me 3 days later, then she ghosts me again...

Sitting at home on Christmas morning alone with her present, not having heard from her in several days, I finally had had enough.

Yes, I still love her. Yes, I still feel for her and miss her. But I simply cannot talk to her about this stuff...she reverses and attacks. She blames and belittles. She denies and shifts. It's impossible to talk to her about anything that she might have done. She gaslights, she yells for hours. She lies.

So, when she called on Jan 1 last year, first time I hear from her in a week...I sent her a text that said I'm trying to stay calm and centered and wasn't up for talking with her tonight. She never responded to that, and I didn't chase her.

[Andy1963]

Being flooded today with memories, good and bad
Strange that I can go days without thinking too much then all of a sudden my head fills with things
Despite me reading and researching and gaining understanding of the condition and how it effected me, I still want to scream in her face 'why?'
Why do that to me after everything I gave and how much I put into making her happy and holding her up when she was drowning, she repeatedly told me back then how lost she would have been without me
Yet the truth is, I know 'why'
The condition is 'why', it is all consuming
So many memories of times we were out together, for a meal or just for drinks and she always always started something out of nothing
Maybe I said something in a tone she didn't like and it was like lighting the touch paper. Her angry eyes would be the first indication, then a few irrational comments and I knew it was brewing
I remember how volatile it became, how I always had the ' walking on eggshells' feeling at all times
My response evolved to going quiet, the silence then allowed her to calm
Then apologies, always littered with self justification, as if I had deliberately set out to upset her, I never did, I actively worked to avoid these situations, and I often told her so, maybe a mistake
It was madness in its truest sense, on reflection, I knew it was crazy, why did I keep forgiving, knowing it was bound to happen again and again, and it did

[grumpydonut]

'why?'

we were out together, for a meal or just for drinks and she always always started something out of nothing

as if I had deliberately set out to upset her

Andy, hopefully this is something you haven't heard before. Yes, you are correct when you say it's the illness that explains the why. But to go deeper into some of the above, none of that was about you.

The borderline person unknowingly identifies in her weakness. Her identity is found in feelings of worthlessness, rejection, abandonment and being dominated. On a conscious level, she will scream and shout that she doesn't want to feel these emotions, yet you consistently saw her (like we all did) do things that will lead her to falling back into these emotions. Why?

The answer is found in the subconscious. Throughout her upbringing these feelings were thrust open her - maybe by an engulfing parent or a neglectful one - and she formed an attachment to these feelings. These feelings make her feel her, and she identifies with them. When you see a borderline beneath the veneer of their mirroring, you see a miserable human who doesn't seem to want help. Why? Because while they fear feeling negative emotions on a conscious level, they have a subconscious attachment to them. That explains a lot of the "why".

Why do they feel abandoned even after they've discarded you? Because they want to.

[once removed]

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