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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: I"m returning to these boards after months of supreme suffering and therapy  (Read 402 times)
jaded7
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« on: October 09, 2020, 01:32:03 PM »

I"m returning to these boards after several months of supreme suffering and therapy, and like mentioned here, many days of suicidal ideation. It's been tough, very tough. You can read my threads if you are interested in the story, but several things stood out here for me.

1. She would get angry and tell me that she can't take care of me, doesn't want to take care of me, says she has one child already, etc. AFTER, during our first month or two, she turned to me while making dinner and said "I love taking care of you". I want to be very clear, I never asked her to take care of me, never needed her to 'take care of me' other than be kind and supportive in a normal, relationship way (which she couldn't even do...after the first couple of months it became very much I was bad at things, she was very critical of most things I did or said). AND...this is is the important part...just like you I did ALL of the caretaking! I would be there for her at the drop of a hat, take every call from her, respond quickly to every text, come to meet her at any moment, spend hours on the phone listening to her complain about her ex-husband, reading his emails and texts to her she forwarded to me, supporting her and loving her.  

By the way, one of the only times I ever saw her cry was when she turned to me in bed once and said "will you take care of me?". I said yes of course.

Projection is at work here.

2. The Inner Child connection you made. I made the EXACT SAME connection during a guided inner child meditation a few weeks ago. The guide asked us to really envision this child and put your arms around him, tell him you love him unconditionally, will always be there for him. In my mind's eye when I did that I saw HER. It was shocking.

I'd love to continue exploring this with you. And by the way, like most here, you sound like a kind, intelligent and thoughtful person (as I think I am) and you are confused and bewildered. Like me, and from what I've learned many, many empathic people attract BPD/NPD individuals.



Something switched in me yesterday, I had enough space in my head from thoughts about her, attempting to understand, rationalise, have conversations with her that I made it to the pharmacy and stocked up on anti-depressants, anti-anxiety and sleep aids, all herbal. Here's the list if anyone else needs some support -

St.Johns Wort
Passion Flower
Ashwagandha
Valerian
Phenergan (It's an anti-histamine but has some anti-anxiety/sleep effects)

I took one of each yesterday, when I woke at 3am and some this morning. Today has been much easier. All that mental and emotional energy I was still directing at her, as I had been in the relationship, became more available for myself, to care for myself. I must have got about 8 hours sleep, made so much difference.

A thought that came to me this week I will share -

The inner child connection is what I was most struggling with. I meditated on my inner child today and found I had internalised my ex's inner child - that's who's needs I was caring for. It was a brutal and painful realisation. My own co-dependence writ large, yet it is only now that I am experiencing the suffering. The pain of my inner child no longer being cared for by her and the intense pain of her inner child inside me who's pain is not mine and who's needs I cannot meet as they are no longer here. Separating that out is psychologically and emotionally tough. I feel like I have an internal boundary between the two then an hour later it slips back to where it was and I loose my connection to myself.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 01:36:00 AM by once removed » Logged
Agshoe

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« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2020, 10:41:46 AM »

Bullet: comment directed to __ (click to insert in post) Jaded7

I'm sorry to hear of your pain brother. I hope some light is coming into you this past week. I understand how tough it is. How are you feeling now?

 It was helpful to read your post. Comforting for my sanity to hear of the two similar experiences you had identical to mine. Especially the inner child one. It's a hard thing I feel for others to grasp unless you have been through the experience yourself. Luckily I have one friend who has also dated a pwBPD so they understand the confusion, suffering and pain I and we are all going or have been through.

I appreciate your kind words to me on the subject Smiling (click to insert in post)

It's maddening isn't it? To try and make sense of another person's irrationality - or to be more blunt their mental illness. You can't. I can't, I tried and thankfully now I feel I don't have to. It will never make sense to me. Because I was never interacting with someone who was sharing the same reality I was in. Or at least the same rational frame. Yes, projection is at work!

What inner child work are you continuing to do at the moment?

I'm not so sure about the term empath. For me I'm simply co-dependent. Any my ability to sense others emotions, feel others feelings is just poor boundaries and a hyper vigilant nervous system from growing up in a dysfunctional family with an alcoholic narcissist father. I used to see myself as an empath but now have realised that isn't going to help me sort out the trauma from my childhood which caused me to be attracted to what was the third pw - a cluster B disorder.

I've got back in touch with my inner child through meditation, spending more time alone, reading myself stories, nuturing myself and loads of self care, filling myself up with love from myself instead of looking for any outside source. Though it's taken some time and been bumpy, I'm slowly returning to myself.

Stay strong Smiling (click to insert in post)
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jaded7
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« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2020, 06:27:29 PM »

@Agshoe

I'm six to seven months out and still feeling really PLEASE READty. I went through your whole thread again and just want to say that all of this...


To the point where my whole sense of self has been eroded, every layer of myself. And where I am now is feeling like I need to apologise for simply being a bad person!

It's like such a fragile edge sending that energy and love to myself, then the mind worms start appearing and down I go, not eating and caring for myself and wanting her to feel okay.

Not having that closure and the sudden change of emotions, which I'm sure you all have experienced led me down a path of guilt.

Switching the focus from her needs and feelings onto mine at last

Though I woke at 2am and have been up since then after a intense dream about her. It's crazy how much the experience has effected my unconscious - but then the unconscious doesn't have a concept of linear time. Insomnia continues...


...I can deeply relate to. I feel like such a horrible person (she told me in so many ways I was, yet nobody in my life has ever said these things about me), the mind worms- the ruminating thinking- there were days I was walking around having out loud arguments with her refuting the things she said about me that were not true.

And wanting her to feel ok, even now! If you read my thread, you'll see she said over the course of our relationship many mean things to me, didn't ever apologize, broke all kinds of boundaries, didn't support...but I feel bad NOW wanting her to feel okay.

The sleepless nights went on for 2 months until a psychiatrist acquaintance of mine pulled me to the side and asked me what was wrong- I looked that bad. He gave me some anti anxiety meds that worked immediately, 8 hours of sleep the first night.

And then having dreams of her, yes, still do. I'll wake up from hearing her say want to get a coffee and go for a walk? And then I realize it's me sitting alone in my bed.

It's horrific. We were together for 2 years, her Mom and Dad loved me, I spent a lot of time with them, her sister loved me, her son loved me, her friends loved me. I felt I had a family out here where I'm 1500 miles away from my own family.

I still have these ruminating thoughts all day, every day, trying to make sense of what she said and did, and I still miss her as if she were a part of me.

Don't know how or if this will ever end.
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Rev
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« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2020, 06:07:56 AM »

@Agshoe

I'm six to seven months out and still feeling really PLEASE READty. I went through your whole thread again and just want to say that all of this...


To the point where my whole sense of self has been eroded, every layer of myself. And where I am now is feeling like I need to apologise for simply being a bad person!

It's like such a fragile edge sending that energy and love to myself, then the mind worms start appearing and down I go, not eating and caring for myself and wanting her to feel okay.

Not having that closure and the sudden change of emotions, which I'm sure you all have experienced led me down a path of guilt.

Switching the focus from her needs and feelings onto mine at last

Though I woke at 2am and have been up since then after a intense dream about her. It's crazy how much the experience has effected my unconscious - but then the unconscious doesn't have a concept of linear time. Insomnia continues...


...I can deeply relate to. I feel like such a horrible person (she told me in so many ways I was, yet nobody in my life has ever said these things about me), the mind worms- the ruminating thinking- there were days I was walking around having out loud arguments with her refuting the things she said about me that were not true.

And wanting her to feel ok, even now! If you read my thread, you'll see she said over the course of our relationship many mean things to me, didn't ever apologize, broke all kinds of boundaries, didn't support...but I feel bad NOW wanting her to feel okay.

The sleepless nights went on for 2 months until a psychiatrist acquaintance of mine pulled me to the side and asked me what was wrong- I looked that bad. He gave me some anti anxiety meds that worked immediately, 8 hours of sleep the first night.

And then having dreams of her, yes, still do. I'll wake up from hearing her say want to get a coffee and go for a walk? And then I realize it's me sitting alone in my bed.

It's horrific. We were together for 2 years, her Mom and Dad loved me, I spent a lot of time with them, her sister loved me, her son loved me, her friends loved me. I felt I had a family out here where I'm 1500 miles away from my own family.

I still have these ruminating thoughts all day, every day, trying to make sense of what she said and did, and I still miss her as if she were a part of me.

Don't know how or if this will ever end.


Hi Jaded...

It will end... keep moving through the ruminations - the fever will eventually break.  I went through the same things... Sometimes waking up like a bolt in the middle of the night.  Other times, the shame would linger over me for days... Sometimes still does, but less.

Remind me - are you in T?  What kind?

Anyway, as painful as it is, the fact that you are able to articulate all this is a good sign. You can't let go of what you can't name.  When you name it, you can start to work on tell it to literally take a long walk off a short pier and leave you alone. 

These relationships are so bizarre. They make their way into the core of our identity, like tape worms.  But they can be extricated.

Peace to you and to Agshoe.

Rev
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Ragdolllover

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« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2020, 06:26:13 AM »

I would write letters that were never to be sent to her.  That is the golden rule these are just for your eyes only.  Feel free to explode on paper and express every bad thought you have about her.  Pretend you are speaking directly to her and get all of the hate out. 

I also LOVE this technique.

I’ve written so many letters to my ex, they stay in the bottom drawer in the office.

I also ‘text’ him whenever I get my phone out and feel the urge to. These texts stay in the notes section of my phone.

I think sometimes, just getting all the feelings out of you into something else, either on paper or typing on your phone, even though they are never sent, really really helps.

My friend who works in mental health also suggested to me to try and write a reply back to me from the perspective of my ex. Imagine what they might say back to you. I’ve tried this a few times and found that really helpful too.

I also watched a TEDx talk recently on rumination. Studies suggest that even a 2 minute distraction when you feel yourself starting to ruminate can help control those feelings and emotions. If you practice this distraction technique it will soon become a habit.

I wouldn’t recommend the elastic band trick, as when you think about it, this is punishing yourself for your thoughts. You don’t need to be punished. It’s ok to have those thoughts and feelings, there’s nothing wrong with it. Don’t punish yourself, just try and distract yourself. Find something that helps for you specifically.

I started using Duolingo (you know the language learning app). Every time I start to ruminate I open the app, do a lesson for at least 2 minutes (as suggested) and the feeling passes. I’m still going on the app multiple times a day, but on the plus, I’ve earned over 2500 XP learning Spanish over the last 2 weeks! Hahaha
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jaded7
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« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2020, 05:59:20 PM »

Hi Jaded...


Remind me - are you in T?  What kind?

Anyway, as painful as it is, the fact that you are able to articulate all this is a good sign. You can't let go of what you can't name.  When you name it, you can start to work on tell it to literally take a long walk off a short pier and leave you alone. 

These relationships are so bizarre. They make their way into the core of our identity, like tape worms.  But they can be extricated.

Peace to you and to Agshoe.

Rev

Yes, the shame. I will feel my face turn red in shame as if I did something wrong, or when I think about her snapping and ordering me and lecturing me during sex.

I am seeing a therapist who specializes in recovery from abusive relationships, she is very very kind and understanding and is helping me validate that all the things that were said and that happened were not normal or nice...abusive in fact.
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jaded7
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« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2020, 06:01:50 PM »

I also LOVE this technique.


I also watched a TEDx talk recently on rumination. Studies suggest that even a 2 minute distraction when you feel yourself starting to ruminate can help control those feelings and emotions. If you practice this distraction technique it will soon become a habit.



What was that Ted talk? I've spent every day for 7 months in rumination...it's exhausting and of course causes such pain. As I mentioned, I must look like a crazy person walking around sometimes muttering to myself as I try to explain things to her in my head.
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Agshoe

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« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2020, 01:06:29 PM »

@jaded7

The rumination will end. The space your mind is in will be different. If just my experience is anything to go by. I can't say I don't think about her every day but it is lessening each day, and as that does more energy is released to be directed towards myself, my needs.

I emerge from a bubble.

Whatever techniques you have to get all that energy out of you are good, be it talking to yourself, writing, therapy etc. But, if you can, start to elevate yourself up, so your feelings, your needs are more important than hers. On reflection the rumination I did on all the details was painful for me, what helped the most was writing about my feelings not trying to work out why? Or how I was a bad person. Staying present and writing about how I felt in the moment and recognising that.

Once I had some energy freed up I started to get my diet and supplement game back in effect so at least my body was supported. High dose of vit D helped. (I live in the northern hemisphere)

Therapy also has been a real saviour. Good to hear you are getting some and seeing the way she treated you as abuse. It sounds abusive from over here.

Sending strength and peace bro

 
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jaded7
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« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2020, 03:21:31 PM »

@agshoe

It just seems like everyone on these boards is so kind and thoughtful. I've always thought of myself that way, that's certainly how I treated her. She was my number one priority, I wanted to make her feel loved and wanted and safe. I was and am deeply in love with her.

Yet. She was extremely critical of me, very much double-standards on so many things, condescending, would explode with anger, misread my intentions constantly (it almost seemed like she WANTED to do that...I even told her it seemed like she wanted to be mad at me), criticize my business, my food, my eating (you eat "PLEASE READty food"), how I dressed ("see how Michelle Obama made Barack look so much better?") and just leave me constantly confused and wondering where we stood- she'd ignore texts for days or just shoot a 'busy' text and I'd not hear from her for 2 days,, not return phone calls for days, ignore boundaries when I did try to set them (for example after one night yelling at me and belittling me until 3 in the morning I sent her a text, out of courtesy so she didn't think I was giving the silent treatment, that "I would be in contact with her later in the week, please respect this request" and within 5 seconds she shot back a text saying that it was fault that 'this happened'...notice passive voice of her attacking me and belittling me...-if I would have just told her _____ earlier in the day, this would not have happened. I DID tell her _____ earlier in the day, several times when I could tell she was dismissing it).

3 different therapists have told me that her behavior is abusive, all three have said very abusive, one said that if we were in couples counseling with her and she heard her say that she would have kicked her out of the session. I do no lie to these therapists, I tell them the truth.

Yet, yet. I feel guilty, feel bad, feel like a messed up. I never once raised my voice to her, never once called her names, never once belittled her or her work or her clothing or her food or her driving or...anything. Why would I want to?

Why I can't get my intellectual understanding that this was terrible treatment to change my heart I do not understand. I know that the old phrase, "don't allow people to treat you in such a way that if you did it to them they'd leave you immediately" applies here.

I thank you for you kind responses, I'm just going crazy with the ruminations and missing her.
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Rev
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« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2020, 11:47:08 AM »


Why I can't get my intellectual understanding that this was terrible treatment to change my heart I do not understand.



Hey there Jaded...

Just for fun... to stop the ruminations...  to put a stick in their spokes - to stop them in their tracks...

Can you see an inherent catch-22 here?  Hint - the answer is tied to the words "intellectual understanding".

And the path forward - in dealing with her sickness lies in acceptance that you no doubt tried everything to reach her and ... could not because she would not.

Sometimes people die because they are sick and we wish it could be different. Some times we carry all kinds of regret for things we wish we could have done with them before they died. Sometimes these regrets can even trick us into believing that we are somehow to blame for them dying. Nothing intellectual about it. It's all about alingment.

Peace my friend... the waves will ease. Give your mind the permission to stop searching for an answer it will never find...  instead give your mind permission to listen to the compassion of the heart - yours and ours...

With much love,

Rev
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« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2020, 01:51:28 PM »

Jaded
Its so bizarre how similar your posts are to what i might post myself
It never ceases to amaze me just how similar our shared experiences are
Of course our acceptance of the abuse and mistreatment is so common
Until i joined this forum i had believed i was the one going crazy,  but with so many identical experiences and that we are all left feeling completely destroyed shows that we are not the crazy ones
All i can add is that each day i read the posts on here, and post myself, and work every day to bring my thoughts and energy back to me and not her, it gets slightly easier
I too ruminate a lot, im trying to stop and I'm getting better, just keep doing what your doing and together we will free ourselves from their grip
I keep telling myself, baby steps
And reminding myself, I'm free now and i had a lucky escape...


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« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2020, 01:12:23 PM »

Hi Jaded-

I know you’re still suffering deeply, and I am so so sorry.  I just went back and re-read some of your early posts and I have a few suggestions that may hopefully help you.

Doing the things I’m going to suggest directly helped me. 

First I want to say that I realized today that you and I share a very painful childhood experience.  I’ll say nothing more about that unless you want to explore that more with me on the boards... but the impact of something like that takes its toll.  You CAN come to terms with it.  You CAN stop blaming yourself.

Okay.  We know the relationships with our former disordered partners affect us in unimaginable ways.  I had come to realize that when I entered the relationship with my BPD/NPDbf (my “dream man” initially), I was in fact NOT at my best, or I would NEVER have let him back after his first RAGE at me.  I was ready to date “normal”, but was no match for this guy.  I was 9 months out of a traumatic divorce (tho’ separated 2.5 years), and I had fled to a place where I had virtually no support system.  Perfect setting for a disaster and isolation.

At any rate, I am now coming up on 9 months out.  I am and have been LETTING myself see him for who and what he really is.  And I am LETTING myself see myself for who I am and who I need to get back to being.  That IS the key, my friend.

Jaded- our partners are NOT lost little children, at least mine wasn’t.  I really took a hard hard look at some of his lies, his true attempts at gaslighting.  And I do NOT use that term lightly.  The things I KNEW he did that I did not bring to his attention.  And the things were SO intentional that I think “why on earth, HOW on earth, could I continue to hate and disrespect myself THIS much to let this continue?”  So it became about me, NOT HIM.  I KNEW he was sick (tho’ not diagnosed to my knowledge).  But me?  That became my question.  Me?  Why would this stuff be okay with me?

I had already over and over and over already gently and kindly addressed with him the fact that we all “fall short” at times, forget to do things, make little mistakes that do NOT define us as “good” or “bad” people.  And pointing out, reminding, are NOT criticisms of the soul of a person.  No need to RAGE and tear me to shreds because you forgot to feed the dog an hour ago.

And Jaded, it wasn’t like any of this was new!  It had all been happening for 6+ years.  The switch flipped in me when 1)  I realized he’d lied about me to his mother, the woman who he always RAGED about to me.  The woman with whom he is sickeningly enmeshed (he’s 62, by the way).  He knows this.  He’s spoken about this; and 2) he spoke in detail about a sexual exploit (he’d NEVER done that before).  I knew that night I never wanted to be near him again.  Whatever.

Anyway.  From the beginning of our relationship, things were so confusing that I began journaling on my iPad.  And 3.5 years into my relationship, when I found this forum, I’d post here sometimes (mostly in responses).  I read my writings to remind me.  Frequently at first.  Not anymore.

I suggest you do the same.  READ what you wrote.  Remind yourself of her actions.  Really come to understand what held your relationship together.  What was there TO your relationship.

As far as ruminations go.  The BEST thing I did was watch Dr. Ramani on You Tube.  She specifically has videos on Narcissism and ruminations, among many very other helpful topics.  I’d binge her videos, the ones where she’s alone.

At any rate my friend, I can truly say that I AM out.  And I am thankful.  I am thankful that I was NOT stuck in lockdown with him. 

He thought he took a part of me.  But I got it back.  I am sorry for nothing.  And you can and WILL get there.

Warmly,
Gems
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« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2020, 03:26:03 AM »

The reason i believe for the basing what happened on childhood is because in terms of ongoing evolution, the past is all we have at hand to work with, its all we know to draw in comparisons.

As for wandering around blethering. Are you ok with this? Some of the most brilliant minds in history have done the same. By brilliant I'm referring to those who came up with theories that received global recognised impact. Adam Smith would wander the streets muttering to himself, what he was actually doing was thinking aloud and those became part of his lectures.

Maybe you've done similar here? We've read what you said.

Maybe there's part of you that wanted to talk more, express, but for whatever reason on the past, it did not happen and nothing cam change it. Maybe if you had acted different towards her things would have ended up better, or worse, or not much different

In saying this, i see no value on holding on to guilt or shame it is pointless. Neither yourself, us or any therapist can in reality pinpoint what you have 'failed'. Because none of them can predict what the other outcome would have been.
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« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2020, 11:06:01 AM »

Thanks for your post, it has given me some things to think about. As I have written on my other post, my BP was different in some ways. He didn’t lye, he didn’t cheat and he didn’t put me be down on  a regular bases. If anything he was usually very supportive. The only time he was abusive was when he was devaluing me and that was alway triggered by an imagined rejection or pushing back when things where too good so he needed to ruin it. Roughly about every two or three months. I went into this relationship being in a good place ( I have had lots of therapy) I almost always stood up for myself and didn’t believe the unkind things he said. I keep asking myself why am I so crushed from this breakup and what happened to that good feeling of self I had. I’m struggling to find it. For some reason, after reading your comments I think I figured it out. It is kind of like when a super hero (I don’t think I am a super hero, this is just an analogy) fights the bad guy, he is drained of his powers when it’s over. He can’t get right back up and fight again. I need time to fill myself back up.

I am going to listen to the Ted talks you mentioned and maybe try some of the supplements (I’ve been on antidepressants for years). My biggest struggle is that I can’t be angry at someone who is ill. It’s so much easier to get over someone who you can dislike or are angry with, but they can’t really can’t help their behavior because it’s a disorder. No one made me stay, that was my choice, even if it was a bad one. I think if he did some of the things that I have read about on a lot of the posts I read, I probably would feel justified to have more anger. When a relationship ends we grieve. We don’t grieve what was, we grieve what we thought and hoped it was. We didn’t stay for abuse, we stayed because we were hoping for the wonderful outcome we believed it could be. I am waiting for a book I ordered on Amazon about grieving loss, not just death, but breakups. I also listen to podcasts about surviving a breakup. Berne brown has a Netflix special called Call to courage, which can be empowering.
Thanks for your resources and I hope you all continue to take care of yourself as you work to recovery.
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