Terrible time with Live in GF...

[cash05458]

Not sure where to start of course. Not even sure if my GF is BPD or BD. There is something very wrong tho...with her and myself certainly.

We have lived together for 6 years now. I love her very much. But she does have serious rage issues...when angry, she tells me I am the biggest piece of sh*t loser she has ever met...that she hates me (even to the point of adding...and when I tell you later I don't I will be lying)...

Over the last month I have watched as she quit her job in a very dramatic way...and fall into depression and our fights have gotten worse. The attacks have started again...as well as things I have seen before...super fast talking...sleeplessness, anxiety and panic attacks.  Crying over seemingly insignificant things.

A few days ago she again told me she no longer has feelings for me and they haven't been there for a long long time. That is hard to understand because she was saying just the opposite last week. She has always told me when calm she loves me deeply. She announced she had met a guy on facebook and has feelings for him, not me etc...and this fellow lives in England, 3000 miles away...they have been talking for a mere two weeks. She says she wants to fly to England to be with him.

I am sure you have heard this a thousand times but she tells me pretty much I am responsible for every single bad thing in our relationship. She half has me believing it to make up with her and calm her. Plus I am promising to change in many ways to get her back. I have no clue what I am doing to be honest.

At that, she got in her car and drove 250 miles down to Boston to be with her daughter. She has been there for 5 days. She texted me that she plans to return home tomorrow..but insists we are finished and she wants to be able to talk to this new facebook fellow here in the house as much as she wants. She wants to continue on with him here with me literally laying next to her in bed as she taps away on her damn phone. I asked her to cut things off with him for our sake...after all, you have spoken with him for two weeks adn this is facebook hon. She said "I can't do that to him"...This made me feel so bad about how she looks at me and our 6 years together.

I told her I couldn't stand for that...that if she wants to try to work things out with us...fine, come home please...but her staying here with me while she works out a new thing with some stranger would be humiliating for me and I won't allow. That if she couldn't not do that while here to either stay with her daughter or call a girlfriend to stay with for some time...she became enraged. I have no idea whether she is returning under those conditions tomorrow or not as she has contacted me since I told her that.

Not sure what I am even asking of you good folks...but I know I am torn between still loving her and wanting her...being so jealous of this new found clown...and also that the dynamic between us is wearing me down...I really have hardly any self esteem left...her rage attacks and behavior are killing me. Yet, here I am wanting to work it thru...

Even worse, this is embarrassing as I am in my mid 50's...I should know better.       
   
   

[cash05458]

So it has been quite a day. Woke up in morning to her texting...saying she loves me so much, realizes just how abusive and mean she has been etc...says she needs a little time to herself and asks also if she can pick some things up, not everything, just things up while she stays in Boston with a friend...needs to clear her head etc...asks if she can call in a awhile. Ok, I say.

As said above, she is in Boston, five hours away from our home.

I try to do some exercise to keep this depression  over all this from hopefully going too deep and around 12 oclock notice an email from her. It says "One hour away from home, coming to get some stuff"...then she calls...again, crying, saying she knows there is something wrong with her...but she can't help it...I am so sorry numerous times...I never ever want to hurt you...I am terrible to you...I love you so much...but need a few things to get by on...can you not be there as this is too painful to see how I hurt you..."

Ok, I say...and I then go over to a neighbors house...a very nice elderly couple who live next door and know a small bit of what is going on with us...of course you can stay here...thank you...

A few mintues later we hear a truck coming down the road...a uhaul...a big one...one of those larger ones...followed by a carload of people...

Three and  half hours later they truck and car finally leave...I go back home.

She has taken every single thing of hers...all clothes, art from walls, even the living room rug! I don't believe there is a single spoon of hers left in the place...and she took three of our cats with her...

She leaves a note on table that says "Sorry, I love you, will call"

I knew she was acting uber impulsively lately...but christ...

[cash05458]

sorry, had posted two above comments in the wrong group here...I am that confused...so moved to here which is the appropriate group...the two above posts were over two consecutive days...thanks!

[HopelessBroken]

Welcome Cash!

Things right now seem so incredibly painful and confusing at the same time. I am so sorry you are going through this. You explain that you are feeling torn. You love her, but this relationship is draining you. I was head over heals in love with a BPD man who treated me horribly. To those who have never experienced a BPD relationship, this sounds crazy. We get it.

How did you come to the conclusion of BPD for her? And tell us, as you are feeling torn about what to do, what have been the positives of your relationship? (You listed a lot of negatives above).

Oh...and no blaming yourself for being in this situation based on how old you are. It’s got nothing to do with intelligence, it’s got to do with the fact that you fell in love.

[cash05458]

Thanks for responding HB...it means a lot to me.

Well, as she won't see a psych I don't know for sure. But via all of my reading here and with other things...BPD seems the closest to describing her.


Th positives: well, when getting along she can be wonderful...very seemingly caring.

She is intelligent, which I find attractive and not in a "snobby" sense...

There are many things there that I can't pinpoint or put into words very well...maybe that is just being in love. I don't know.

I won't go into the negatives again...but the last few weeks  have been horrific.

I miss her...but am not missing her rages tho. That is for sure.

The cruelty she has shown lately is mindblowing...

after yesterday's insanity I found an email from her this morning..."you must know how much I love you. I hated every second of doing that. Call me if you would like...maybe next week I can come up.."


ah, no...not going to call.

[HopelessBroken]

Let me take a leap here, and ask...

When looking at the positives, is it less about what you specifically like about her and more about how she makes you FEEL? (When things are good).

The reason I ask, is that my expwBPD had some very positive characteristics, but it was his ability to make me feel amazing that hooked me like a drug.

I was chasing a FEELING, not necessarily a person.

It can feel so good to get emails like you got, that says she loves you. Do you feel strong enough to not answer when she calls?

[HopelessBroken]

...and I say that because she will continue to contact you.

[cash05458]

HP...well, I think you are right...it's how she makes me feel when things are ok...

as for calling me...will be honest...not sure...

She also put me into a dangerous situation...she cleared our bank account out...we had 3 grand in there and I am unemployed now. We shared our car, she took that...so live way out in country...no way to even get a job without car...this is crazy...

I have a few things I can sell to get the cash up for some cheap, say 1500 dollar vehicle...but its going to be touch and go... and then find some close local meaningless job to get back on feet...

Yet she keeps writing...saying I love you so much...so sad I am hurting you...yet goes raging on in same direction...

[cash05458]

and yes...thinking it over...I feel good not even necessarily when things are "good" per se...but when it's "not bad" ...when it seems merely stable.

[B53]

Cash,
So sorry to hear your story.I find it especially hard with Covid and the holidays coming up. Age doesn’t matter, I’m in my sixties and so was my ex.  Can you reach out to family and friends? Try to be kind to yourself.

This is a good place, it has gotten me through the worst of it.
B53

[cash05458]

thank you B53...so kind of you...no, no family for holidays...isolated myself with her via friends...my mistake.

yesterday she told me she wants it completely done...no more contact at all...have been getting phone calls from her about how great this new friend on FB is...how deep they have become...tells me the idea of her and I working on things is "terrifying"...


I agreed to NC...this in between will kill me I know...just a tsunami of emotions...

I need to get angry...maybe not angry...but upset at how I am being  treated...grow a set...rather, till now have hoped she would see us differently...6 years living together is a long time...I need to let this go and want to...its masochistic to hold on...

[cash05458]

would also like to add: this is a woman who in rages will threaten to call police and make up false domestic abuse charges...yet here I am destroyed that we are over...I obviously need help.

thanks...

[B53]

I so sorry that you are in so much pain. I read that at first when you go through a break up with someone, you go through emotional withdrawal. It can be as painful as withdrawing from hard drugs. I’m not saying the pain will go right away, but the horrible pain will subside. Exercise is helpful, so try to keep it up.

Rubbing her new boyfriend in your face is cruel. The disorder is cruel. It may seem hard to believe, but she is really in a lot of pain. It might be helpful to read more about BPD. The one thing you will learn, is it’s really is not about you. You just end up being the target, like this new boyfriend and everyone after. Give yourself a break, be kind to yourself!

B53

[cash05458]

Thank you B53...yes, been reading many of the things here...and I know it isn't really about me...it sure feels like it...and what is going on seems so insane. I feel like if I had done something differently...or...well, you know...seeing her posts about heading off to england on facebook as well made me feel terrible. So I shut that off and will not reopen. She also told me that even the idea of working something out via us "terrifies" her...and then all about how wonderful this new person is and has opened her back up to life etc...stresses just how different he is than me...better...I think she  is so wrapped up in this facebook thing with a man she has never met (tho tells me they are calling now on phone constantly). Told her yesterday finally, I want no contact whatsoever as well from my side after she said she wanted that...its for the best...hope I can hold to that. And also hope today I can at least begin this recovery...I know it will take time...but I need to begin.   

[B53]

Cash
Stop beating yourself up. There is NOTHING you could have done to change this. Try to eat healthy, get enough sleep and exercise. I think if I had done those things sooner, I would have been able to process things better.

My BP was the hermit type, so he hasn’t moved on and doesn’t rub my nose into anything. It was hard enough, I can’t even imagine how incredibly painful that has to be. Do your best to not read about what she is doing and if you do, forgive yourself and try again. Remember she will turn on him, too.
B53

[cash05458]

B53...thank you...

yes, this is so rough to be honest...I "know" it wasn't only my fault...but "feel" otherwise of course. And xmas is coming...will be alone with this.

If she is in fact in a manic state...it should not matter to me...she is still responsible. Or that is what I am telling myself. I need this done...that terrifies me, but it terrifies me more to continue with her.

Two weeks ago we were here in our house spooning together...both telling one another how much we loved each other...now she is 250 miles away living in a roommate situation, smoking weed all the time, drinking wine...and talking to the guy in england on phone and online...he is buying her a ticket to go for a three month visit to see him...christ...knows this is killing me and actually very dangerous how she left me here with nothing, no car...money, anything after she drained bank account...and she doesnt care...she wants to charge forward with him no matter what happens to me...

even this new roommate...just met the guy...and tells me first night gets loaded and makes out with him...I mean, who does this? She is 59...

I at least have my setting up no contact just yesterday...I will do my best...but at least I took a step...yes, I need to take care of myself...get some exercise, walk the dog, clean the house abit so its not depressingly messy...so am trying...but god, this is so insane and hard...noone has ever done such a thing to me...so in shock its hard to find anger to protect...

this sounds terrible...but have given myself rule I wont contact...and I won't ...but find myself seeing she realizes our last 6 years and me are important and will see the light and suddenly write or call...thats so crazy...if my Dad were still alive he would tell me to grow a set...I need to end this entirely.

but yes, those feelings are running thru me  if only if I had done this or that...she announced yesterday she does not have any love at all for me, zero physical attraction...is in love with another man and he has everything I lack...its so pathetic that I feel this way B53... 

[B53]

Cash,
Actually, if you read about how a BPD loves, it is not actual love. They can't love. What they do is mirror the person they are with. It's an attachment disorder, you're just the host, they are sucking the life out of you. They idealize you, then when you get too close, they feel they are being engulfed and then, devalue you. She looks like an adult, but her emotional maturity is that of a young child. The hardest thing for me to get over, was admitting to myself, that he never really loved me, because it felt so real. I just kept telling myself, that it wasn't real, over and over. I started picturing him as a child in adult clothes, like Tom Hanks, at the end of the movie big. The reason they are so addicting is because they mirror you and they like everything you like. It seems like a match made in heaven.

Feel sorry for that poor guy. Wait until he finds out who she actually is. She will be back to you again and the cycle will go on and on. Without serious help, she will never get better. The good thing is , you will.
Try to find some peace.
B53

[cash05458]

B53...so kind of you...

wondering if this is common with BDP's...? to so quickly move her emotions entirely to another so quickly...she has never even met this man...it is online and on phone...three weeks ago we were living together, things seemed good tho she was in a depression...then this sudden catastrophic uprooting...and now he is her everything and she is planning to go to him in england for three months...this just seems crazy to me...B53, do you think is a common thing with BDP's?

[cash05458]

also...after reading many things here, I realize me letting her know I wanted her NOT to do this...NOT to go to england and asked her to srop this new man...that it is killing me...

I see from others, that was completely the incorrect tactic...then I feel even more guilty, more like it's my fault...

But it was hard not to tell her via what I am going thru since she did this 11 days ago now...the terrible thing is I want her back but KNOW that isn't ok...why can't I be like others who find out about a new person and say "that's it...you dont get to do that to me...we are done"?

still, am trying terribly hard to stick with no contact...and she seems to want that as well...energized I think by her excitement at her new thing...

that our 6 years together came down to her meeting a guy on facebook...has never met him, and it has become her brand new thing...makes me feel so worthless...

[B53]

Cash,
It very, very very common. If you start reading more post, you will find some that sound just like yours. Even though their BP cheated, they also want them back. It’s  like they have some strange hold on the NBP.
My ex didn’t cheat or go off with anyone because he is the hermit type, which isn’t as common.

Don’t beat yourself up, thinking that you could of said or done something different. You probably couldn’t do anything to stop it. It sounds like she was already talking to him before this happened.
These people are not mentally healthy and they do some crazy stuff.

When this doesn’t work out with him, she will come back to you. Just when you think everything is good, she will find someone else and do it to you again. It’s a continuous cycle. Happiness is not to be found with these people without professional help and you can’t force them to do it.

It’s too bad you can’t afford a therapist. You could check on line to see if there is a place that doesn’t charge.
Try to feel better.
B53

[HopelessBroken]

What happened in your relationship is unfortunately extremely common with a BPD partner. It is rare when the BPD partner DOESN'T seek out attention from others. It has zero to do with you Cash. I know you might not believe that right now because of how painful and confusing this feels.

As B53 said above “when” this doesn’t work with this new guy. The new relationship will not make her happy either. This is because she isn’t able to have a stable relationship with anyone without long term treatment (and acceptance of the disorder). 

When she starts to devalue this new person she may attempt to get back together with you. So using this time to take a look at what happened and what you want is important. 

It will not always feel this painful. And you will get through this. I promise. We are here for you and we get it.

[cash05458]

thank you both B53 and HP...yes,I have read many of these stories here.  I have no plans for suicide, no worries...but pretty sure even if she believed (and no I would never threaten) that she won't change her direction...everything is about this new man, whom she has never met...

It's day three of NC...neither one of us...of course, I still keep thinking that she will see the light and understand doing this after 6 years living together is the wrong thing...but that isn't coming I believe.

But god, it is hitting me hard...I have never seen such cruelty...I tried every single option and angle with her to try via us..."No"...but "maybe down the line if my feelings ever change...first, I am going to my new love in England"...keeps saying sorry, but rages forward in this...it did hit me that this is totally out of my control...that seemed to slightly ease things mentally for me...slightly...just s overwhelmed...

had a odd dream last night...a single suitcase in a room...in a sterile room...and while I watch the suitcase turns white...and then I think too myself it is better white...woke up feeling some sense of safety...my interpretation is turning white is surrender...and surrender that I can't do anything seems safer than to continue hoping and wishing this wasn't really going on via what she is doing...

God, it's going to be some xmas...

[B53]

Cash,
With the COViD mutation in the UK, she might not be able to get in and if she does, she might not be able to get out.

Here thinking is very flawed, if she is going to another country to see someone she never met.

This time of year is difficult for a lot of people.
Take care,
B53

[brighter future]

Cash,

First and foremost, I want to tell you how sorry I am to hear about your situation, especially during the holiday season. You have nothing to be ashamed of at all.  This particular thing can happen to any adult no matter their age. . I've been through some similar things this year, and I'm in my mid 40's. My uBPD ex-g/f is in her mid 30's and is 8-1/2 years younger than me.

As many have already said, the behavior of your ex is pretty typical of BPD. They begin to devalue you, then they'll leave you at the drop of a hat. Most of the time, they're with someone shortly after, and in a lot of cases they have someone lined up before they even leave you. They act on impulse without thinking things through and are just looking for the quickest fix most of the time. In their mind, they believe that hooking up with the next person is going to solve all of their issues and become their savior. They are very empty inside.  One of the best BPD analogies I've learned on this forum is this: A pwBPD is like a bucket filled with holes. You can stand there and pour water into the bucket constantly, but you'll never be able to fill it it up. They act impulsively most of the time and rarely think things through before they do something. I believe they rarely think about the consequences of their actions and how they affect themselves and the people they're supposed to love.   Rest easier knowing that there's nothing you could have done to help your ex. She's the only one that can save herself. I didn't find this forum until roughly 2 months after the breakup with my ex. During those two months, I spent the entire time beating myself up wondering what I could have done different to help her and to save the relationship. Talking to others that have been through the same thing really helped get me thinking clearly (as well as seeing a therapist weekly).

As for me, I've known my uBPD ex-g/f for over 20 years and dated her for almost two years. We had talked marriage for about 5 months or so prior to the breakup. I really wanted to take that step with her but couldn't pull the trigger on an engagement due to her severe emotional issues. She often told me that she needed professional help, but never followed through. During the first 1/4 of our relationship, she sought help from a psychologist but quit treatment after 3-4 months and never returned.

Her issues got really bad 3-4 months before the breakup. I was always assured by her that her issues and behavior had nothing to do with me, but there was frequent push/pull behavior from her which affected my confidence in the relationship as did her reluctance to return to therapy. The last 6 days that we were together, she started devaluing me over the phone out of the blue and started lashing out at me by saying "I guess you just must want to spend the rest of your life alone. I don't think you even want a wife" because I hadn't asked her to marry me yet. Before we hung up, it was like she flipped a switch. She said, "Forget about what I said and don't lose any sleep over it. What I'm dealing with has little to nothing to do with you." The final days of the relationship were like a roller coaster. She would go from adoring me, holding my hand,  cuddling and kissing me to acting like I wasn't even there, or she didn't want me there at all.

She showed up at my house late one afternoon in April to visit. As she was leaving, she cornered me down in my garage (was hysterical and her crying was out of control) and asked me why I wouldn't propose to her and said "I love you so much and would do anything or go anywhere to be married to you. I want and need you so bad.  What is your problem and what are you afraid of?" I told her that her unwillingness to get professional help for her issues is what was holding me back, especially after reaching out multiple times saying that she needed help. After this she said, "I don't need help. Counselors don't work for me. I'm fine, and there is nothing wrong with me." She informed me that she was breaking up with me but to call her in a couple of days saying that she needed time to think. I emailed the next day and reinforced that I loved her, supported her, and was willing to stand by her if and when she wanted to get help. I also said getting married now wasn't going to fix the issues and would most likely complicate them further. I take it that she disagreed because she never responded. We talked on the phone a few days later, and I she devalued me and disrespected me like crazy for the first 30 minutes that I almost hung up on her. The last 90 minutes of the conversation went better, and we agreed we would try couple's counseling. I thought this might inspire her to seek individual counseling afterwards. We talked on and off for the next week or so, and I was still hopeful we could work things out. She sent me a text message in the middle of the night telling me that she missed me and loved me. We chatted over text for 20+ minutes and agreed to talk in the next day or two. Three or for days later, she sent me a text message to let me know that she'd been on a car date with another man and had a wonderful time. Turns out, it was the rebound guy
(the identical twin brother of her high school sweetheart) that she ran to right after she left her ex-husband and filed for divorce . She discarded this guy to start dating me, which I found out about 2 months into our relationship. When she told me about him during our relationship, she devalued him to me by saying he was an alcoholic with no job, no car, said their relationship was unhealthy, said he'd been in trouble with the law due to drunk driving,  and then criticized him for being like most guys for trying to get her to sleep with him. Of course she went to bed with him during their first go-around, and it takes two to make that happen. Now all of a sudden after our split, this guy is the best thing since sliced bread. She and I have some mutual friends, and all of her family still talks to me and treats me well. Some of them said she started hitting him up for marriage 3 months into the relationship (said he wasn't interested) then she approached him about just moving in with her and her children (he hasn't done that either based on what I've been told). She told me during our relationship that she would never "play house or shack up" with anyone prior to marriage due to religious beliefs and stated that it would set a terrible example for her kids. She's also considering giving up her lifelong religion for this guy. My guess is so she doesn't have to feel guilty about sleeping with him or allowing him to move in with her out of wedlock if he ever chooses to do that. This shows how impulsive that she is and that she just lives within the moment. In addition to this, she rarely finishes anything she starts, has significant debt, and has a difficult time holding down employment. She doesn't function well within a workplace with others, so she is self-employed and does odd jobs for people to try and make ends meet.

What B53 and some of the other said about your ex being back again someday is correct, so prepare yourself for this. Like they said, the bottom will blow out of that relationship eventually, and she'll look to you again or someone else.  The cycle will never end.  I stopped talking to my ex in early May, unfriended her from my social media, and went no contact.  In mid September and early October, I got some blips from her in social media through mutual friend's pages. She contacted me in October via text message trying to make small talk and said she'd like to return a household item I gave to her a year and a half earlier saying that she no longer needed it. If I didn't want it back, she stated that she wanted my permission to give it away. I replied back by simply saying, "No, it was a gift to you. Please give it away to someone." My therapist has advised no contact at all with her because it sends the wrong signal to the illness, but if any contact must be made to "keep it simple and show compassion from a distance."  A month after that happened, I got a brief in person visit from her while my child and I were outside playing basketball (ex's parents live next door to me). That was super awkward, and I only spoke a couple of sentences to her. Eventually she said she'd better go back next door and left. Last week, I received another social media blip from her on a mutual friend's page. That friend asked her social media friends to share their favorite memory her. My ex went below my comment (which she liked with a heart emoji) to the mutual friend and shared her favorite memory of our mutual friend. Me ex's favorite memory of our mutual friend was a memory that included me, my ex, and the mutual friend when we took care of my ex and her kids when she was sick for several days during out relationship. I just sat there and shook my head when I read that but did not respond to her. Every bit of this contact from her since September has come while my ex's rebound man is at work. This is how pwBDP operate, and I'm certain she was doing the same things with other men while we were together. She probably had this guy lined back up for round two before we ever split. Some think that if she's not getting what she wants out of this guy, there's a chance she's starting to devalue him and is checking on my availability and probably others as well.

Sorry my post is so long. I hope that some of what I've had to say helps you out. Even though our break up was 8 months ago, some days I still feel a great sense of loss for all the wonderful times she and I had together.  It still helps keep me on track by coming in here and sharing my experiences with others and also by reading what  have been through or are presently going through. I will be thinking about you and will be keeping track of your progress. There's always someone here that will listen when you need help. Best wishes.

[cash05458]

Brighter Future (and thank you B53)...gosh, so wonderful of you to take the time to write such a note to me...painful things tho to be sure and thank you from bottom of  my heart.

For me, after living with one another for 6 years...yes, this took me by surprise. I never ever saw her as a cheater or looking for other men...so this was new to me...but then again I saw so many other signs, her depressions...her heavy heavy rage attacks (she would always let me know that those NEVER had happened with anyone else...just me)...so I guess all in all it's not surprising...

I do think she has to line up another before leaving...she has been married 5 times...doesnt talk much about details...and I believe she is totally idealizing this fellow she has never met in england...I mean, tells me how incredible he is...and just how sickening I am to her (but she still loves me...just not like THAT...THAT sort of love is for him)...and prolly as he is just some lonely fellow on facebook  and on the phone (he hasnt had a relationship in over 20 years and lives with his 95 year old mother and 90 year old aunt) the fact that she actually HASN'T met him is  probably part of the draw if you know what I mean...he can be made to represent anything really...like a transparent thing to be filled in by her needs...his not having any physical presence yet prolly helps that. Certainly her hatred of me is driving her to idealize this avatar...

Today has been my best day since this started with her leaving two weeks ago...yes, still very hurt...but dont quite feel so overwhelmed (that can return I am sure)...it felt like a relief from the deep depression...the day started with me finally feeling (not just thinking) that I have done everything possible to save this thing...and at every step have been kicked in the face...and I also feel inside that looking at how this whole month has unfolded (beginning with her quitting her teaching job and accusing the school over many things on facebook and getting a no trespassing order from said school to her sudden move, to the announcement of a new boyfriend and how all of her feelings for me have been reversed...well, it hit me that there was really nothing at all I could have done to stop any of this. 

I hope I can keep both those feelings. I need to keep those feelings as they seem the key to not only surviving this chaos but for me to get back on my own feet and  find a different life.

My guess is this episode is going to end in one of two ways and it will be a real plane crash. Either she starts sleeping with this old man who is her new roommate and she just met and has been making out with then being upset with herself (they all are staying in house constantly smoking pot and drinking) and freaks out about that...or she actually makes it to england and gets all the way to cornwall to go live with this stranger she thinks she is in love with in his house and with his old Mom and pops there...

either way, I have no intention of being there to help her sort out the pieces of the wreckage...

[cash05458]

One thing I also realized...in our 6 years together...nov/dec have always been terrible with her...she never did this...but every holiday season involved constant rage attacks, and also a depression...even her quitting or getting fired from jobs (she has been thru 4 different schools in 6 years and they all end the same, in a very bad, chaotic manner)...strange I never noticed that until this all finally exploded...

[B53]

Cash,
Something may have happened to her in the past, during those months and it may be an unconscious  trigger. I don't have BPD and I often get sad near the holidays, due to unpleasant past memories.

I know that you are trying to sort all this out in your head, but what a BP does, often makes no sense. 

You probably don't realize this, but you are grieving, the same as if someone has died. Look up the stages of grieving and you might identify with the early stages and find ways to help you through it.

There is no right way to deal with the pain your feeling, you just have to keep searching and reaching out and you will eventually find a word here, a paragraph there or an article that gives you some relief. The one thing about hitting bottom, is the only place to go is up.

There are a lot of people here for you, who care.
B53

[cash05458]

B53 thank you...yes, I have thought about that..I know both of her parents were heroin addicts and her father died when she was 5...and then her Mother took off...she was brought up in different orphanages and foster homes...I also know that she was sexually abused when young...she certainly has had lots of trauma...and I tend to always play the caregiver/hero perhaps in these things...

[cash05458]

B53...yes, this really does feel like a death...I knew we had problems...but certainly not THIS...never ever saw it coming...it does feel like I am going thru her dying or something...feels as strange as if i found out she got in a car crash or something...almost trying to have to talk myself into being angry at her for this as I am just so overwhelmed...I mean, no true anger response I would normally feel when someone does something terrible and cruel to me...if that makes sense...

[B53]

Cash,
I understand  completely. It’s hard to get angry at someone when it’s not their fault they are such a mess and that makes it harder to let them go. The thing is, are you willing sacrifice your life, be a martyr? At some point you have to be held accountable for what you do to others. She is the only person who can change this. At some point you have to decide when enough is enough. YOU DESERVE BETTER!
B53

[cash05458]

B53...yes , you are right. Of course you are. It isn't even that she is offering to try to recover as a couple from the last few weeks. She has told me "right now" she has no interest in that. Maybe after she checks things out more deeply with the new man...then, no promises, but maybe her feelings might want to see if we can work thru our problems. That's insane. I need to simply shut this off and try to recover and lose all hope...hope is whats keeping me from working on self.

[cash05458]

B53, It almost seems like once they have found a new "vessel" they simply cant be reasoned with or stopped...as if all energy is now going there and the past we have had for last 6 years is meaningless. Every ounce is towards the "new" thing...and us? Our history and closeness?

[brighter future]

B53...yes, this really does feel like a death...I knew we had problems...but certainly not THIS...never ever saw it coming...it does feel like I am going thru her dying or something...feels as strange as if i found out she got in a car crash or something...almost trying to have to talk myself into being angry at her for this as I am just so overwhelmed...I mean, no true anger response I would normally feel when someone does something terrible and cruel to me...if that makes sense...

I feel the same way about my past relationship, Cash. Like you, I knew there were problems, but her discarding me came completely out of the blue. In prior weeks, she told me that I was the "man of her dreams", stated that she "would never give up on me" and asked me to never leave hear. The lack of closure in these relationships is very traumatic for us "Nons".  Some of these comments were made by her in front of her own children. I heard from my ex's family that both of her kids had a very tough time with our breakup, especially her 12 year old daughter that never even knew her biological father. This still breaks my heart to this day.  About a month after the breakup, I sent her daughter a text message to let her know how much I cared and that I didn't forget about her. My ex's son will come over to visit from time to time when he is visiting his grandparents next door.

My ex-g/f was also sexually abused by a family member of her father's from the age of 6 to 8. It seems like most pwBPD have been sexually abused.  Her father and sometimes her mother used and sold drugs out of the home when my ex and her siblings were little. They turned their lives around 25-30 years ago and are very successful people. Where they failed my ex as parents is the fact that they never got professional help for her.  These issues still haunt her to this day, and in most cases, she is not able to function on her own without the help of others. Her two children have suffered because of this and were both put into therapy a few months after our breakup. I pray that one day they can break the cycle.

I'm glad that you have been feeling a bit better over the past couple of days and are at peace with the fact that you did all you could to make your past relationship successful. I knew that I'd done everything in my power to support my my ex in our relationship, but for a while I was angry for her not reciprocating a good part of the time. What got me over that was accepting the fact that she's simply not capable of those things in relationships, no matter if it's a partner, her children, other family members, friends, and even co-workers. I don't believe she has the capacity to truly love, and I don't think she knows what true love is. It's sad. While I was trying so hard to please her, I neglected myself and other important things in my life. I'm working hard to turn that around and am trying to get out of the codependent mindset. Staying single for the time being and concentrating on myself and my child is the best course of action for me right now.

Keep it up with the positive thoughts. What really helps me out on difficult days is taking long hikes in the woods enjoying nature, doing fun things with my child,  or occupying my mind with fun projects here at home. The more I keep my mind occupied with those positive things, the less time I have to sit around and dwell on the past. As others have said, eating well and getting a good amount of sleep sure helps, too.

PS, please disregard all of the typos in my last post to you. I was multi-tasking when I drafted it and did not really proofread before I hit post.  

[cash05458]

B53...god, thank you for taking time to write that note.

I am sorry for all you have been thru. It sounds like it has been a long struggle but well worth it for you and that you are in a good place.

I need to begin that as you did.  Even this morning she called me to discuss things like getting her mail sent to her, factual things...and I found myself wanting to send her another note saying please reconsider and rethink...we have too much invested in one another to simply go off to some man you are virtual pen pals with so far...please, focus on us and give us a chance...and offering if she takes some time to reconsider and has THOSE feelings for me to please reach out to me.

It is taking all my strength today NOT to send that note. She knows and can feel of course deep down where I am. But to send again and offer yet again...would just put me backwards a few days.  SO I am trying to hold on and NOT do that.

God, I know I sound so confused.

[cash05458]

well, got a phone call from her last night...had to talk about pets and finances...then she goes into how this new guy in england and she are having video sex "numerous times" a day...she has never met a man like this who has opened her up in such ways...has not a single feeling of love for me left...and "he is her god"...this is a 60 year old woman...I have no idea what to make of any of it besides pure insanity...

[brighter future]

well, got a phone call from her last night...had to talk about pets and finances...then she goes into how this new guy in england and she are having video sex "numerous times" a day...she has never met a man like this who has opened her up in such ways...has not a single feeling of love for me left...and "he is her god"...this is a 60 year old woman...I have no idea what to make of any of it besides pure insanity...

I'm very sorry that you had to sit there and listen to her talk about her new man in this manner. How inconsiderate of her and what horrible boundaries she has. I know how much it hurt me hearing my ex g/f talk about her date with her rebound guy 2 weeks after our split, but luckily I didn't have to listen to graphic details like you did. What was your reaction when she said these things to you? Did you tell her that you didn't want to know these things? Personally, I wouldn't tolerate it. Only a person that is so miserable and empty inside would do something like that to another person.

I want to share something with you. It's a testimony (author unknown) from a woman with BPD. This testimony was posted by a member of this forum roughly 2-3 months ago. When I read this testimony, it gave me a better understanding about what goes through a pwBPD's mind. This particular sentence in her testimony is very striking and sounds like what your ex is doing by saying these awful, inappropriate things to you: "I will start a passive aggressive campaign to hurt you so you know what it feels like. I’ll do these things because I haven’t been able to learn how to love myself."

"As a woman who has BPD, interpersonal relationships have proven to be next to impossible for me. And while I do have positive characteristics that people are drawn to; a friendly disposition, killer hair and a pretty smile, I also have all the fear of abandonment issues, insecurity, low self esteem, etc that defines this nasty disorder. So. I am a good actress. I can appear strong, confident, and secure in who I am. I can make you laugh, listen to you talk about your hopes and dreams, tell you things I think you would want to hear. But honestly, I’m not doing these things for you. I’m doing them for me. Oh! How I don’t want to be alone! I so want you to love me. Pathetic, I know. But I’m not able to keep up the facade for more thanv6 months or so. And even if you are the nicest, kindest, most thoughtful man I’ve ever been with, it’s not going to matter because my insecurities will rear their ugly head and I won’t be able to trust you. You could be the best lover. You could say you love me 3 times a day, you could do all kinds of little things to show me that you love me, but I won’t believe you. Not only that, but I will begin to believe you are lying to me, or secretly making fun of me or chasing other women. I will start a passive aggressive campaign to hurt you so you know what it feels like. I’ll do these things because I haven’t been able to learn how to love myself. All the positive attributes I had previously portrayed vanish into thin air, and from start to finish (1–7 months) I manage to estrange yet another man from my life. I’ve been in therapy for years trying to adapt new ways of thinking. And even though I so long to be healthy, I have come to accept my limitations and stay out of romantic relationships. I’m so tired of hurting…myself and others. The cool thing I’ve gotten from therapy is recognizing that It’s not that I pick the wrong men, but mostly it’s that I have no business even attempting to have another relationship with a man until I can learn to live and forgive myself. By then, I probably won’t even want one. Lol."

[cash05458]

Brighter Future...thank you for sharing that with me and your words...this stuck out to me from the testimony most of all...exactly like it did to you:  "I will start a passive aggressive campaign to hurt.you so you know what it feels like."

gosh, that feels so real to me...I will mirror my pain upon you and you might soak it up so I don't feel alone...we can share at least that fully...

Via the call with me...I was sort of stunned into silence when she spoke about this. Said she is "performing" for him on  phone cam several times a day...to be honest, I didnt know folks even did this stuff...she then said he is her new master...so I guess its a dom sub thing...which is horrifying to hear...

While it was terrible to hear that...as I do still love her...something clicked inside..."this is way too f+++ked up and dangerous...this is not right in any sense..."

and while it made me slightly jealous, that wasnt it really...more it made me feel  that she is deep in the throes of something terrible that I want no part of any longer...I can't help this person...give up...this is too crazy...

I still want her to be ok...but this is so far beyond me helping her or sticking with her to guide her...

So she is claiming she has ordered an expedited passport to fly in feb to england to be his submissive...

in an odd way it makes it easier for me if you can understand that BF? It is so far out there...it helps me...does that make any sense?

[cash05458]

oh , she also said she is smoking pot constantly...I mean I don't but have no problems folks do. But I dont feel she is doing it for right reason...but that isn't my call...even that she turned into something bad about me/us..."I am smoking pot all the time now...I used to before we got together...no, you never discouraged...but you don't smoke. I hate you that I stopped...it has opened me up again to life and to my new found love."

She actually said it clearly as well" I no longer love you at all...I only love him...he is my man, you are not."


yeah, that is pretty clear...there isn't much more to say or justify to myself at that point...

[B53]

Cash,
I understand quite a bit about the nature of the disorder and their need to keep jumping from one person to the next, but I really don’t understand why she is rubbing this new guy in your face. I guess it’s because empathy is something BPD’s can’t feel.
This has got to be so hard for you.
B53

[cash05458]

B53...thanks...yes, I have no idea either...I guess to humiliate me...seems like she is into humiliation now as well...so maybe projecting it onwards? Actually, maybe it just from the whole cruel thing going on...I dont even know why she would tell me.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hey Cash-

I am terribly sorry for the pain and confusion you’re experiencing from your recent breakup and the ongoing behavior of your former GF.

One thing I would like to point out is that pwBPD (people with BPD) oftentimes DO have empathy.  It’s generally those with strong narcissistic traits who have little to no empathy.  Your ex may “enjoy” some co-morbidity, as some disordered folks do.  Mine did and had ZERO empathy.

In looking at yourself, and how deeply this is affecting you and hurting you on a day to day basis, and it IS... how could it NOT?  Can you step back for a moment, give yourself a pause and ask how to perhaps “reduce” her DIRECT IMPACT in you?

When a partner hurts us THIS BADLY, THIS DEEPLY... we don’t need to ALLOW them to constantly trample all over lines of human decency.  And that includes providing us with details of what they’re doing to or with their new “love” interest.

So maybe now is the time for YOU to erect a HARD boundary around that behavior.  You are ALLOWED to say no.  You can be polite and exit any conversation you wish... at any time.

Cash - your BOUNDARIES represent your values.  Period.  And you have every right to stand firm on your values.

She has already violated what I’d consider several boundaries/ shared values of a relationship.  She cleaned out the house without telling you (when she was coming to get “a few things”).  She drained the joint account of funds.  She took your sole mode of transport.  She is constantly belittling you with what she says she does and does not feel for you.  And now this boorish behavior describing what she’s doing on camera.  Most teenaged girls would NOT behave in that manner...

So what do you think?  Is it time to erect some boundaries?  To take care of yourself?

I’ve more thoughts on what will take place when reality hits HER in the face.  What are YOUR thoughts, after witnessing / living this behavior?

Again, I am so very sorry Cash.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[B53]

Cash, G,
I totally agree. I was thinking the same thing but didn’t know how to say it in a gentle way. You need some time for yourself. As much as you want that connection, this is tearing you apart. I know that you are financially strapped but could you check to see if there free counseling or a support group available near you?

G- I thought lack of empathy was part of BPD. This is new to me. Thanks

Hang in there cash.
B53

[cash05458]

Gemsforeyes...ok, thank you for that note...actually, thank you everyone here for your kindness.

I dont know why but reading what you wrote made me begin crying...I know I need to erect real and strong boundaries...I feel so stripped down...so low...so...nothing... to be frank and honest...this has been the most awful two weeks of my life...it happened or she took off...two weeks ago tonight...this has been so horrible...just mind  and soul warping. It has as if she has become this complete opposite of the woman I have lived with for 6 years...

You ask my feelings about what she told me...shocked of course...more of a I cant believe I am hearing this...but deeper, since feeling it over today...without harsh judgements, I feel as if this person is in an area I cannot touch...she is so far other from me/us now...this is untouchable for me and here I am still hoping she will "see the light"  about us and see us as important. I know that is so confused to those reading all these things. There is some jealousy there...she calls him "her new man, her new master"...but mostly this is so alien to me and she is so far far gone. I dont even know how to process this.

and then in same conversation she said..."I want nothing of us...he is my man...I love him...but I do want you to get thru all this and find strength again...I love you like a brother...I want you to be ok"

my female cousin told me this on phone: "she is not contacting you because she wants to see you ok...no matter what she is saying...she is doing this to assuage her own guilt...it's still entirely about HER..."

Here I was hoping maybe she would want to work on us...see the light again...maybe help her find a therapist, see one myself...and rather it's "I am going to england to serve my Master as his submissive"... literally, a guy she started talking to three weeks ago on facebook. and then adding "I hope we can be friends because I really do care about your well being."

I am curious tho what your feelings are about when she comes down and reality hits? Would you express those thoughts to me please Gem?

thank you again for your note...and by the time I finished writing this I at least stopped the crying Gem.

[cash05458]

Gem and B53...
I also feel shame that I am not holding to my boundaries...and that supports this worthless feeling. We hadn't talked or wrote emails for 4 days... I was able to do that. Then a email about can we talk about pets (she has her cats still here) and nothing emotional? Yes, I say...

and then all that stuff comes out as we wander in...and then emails back and forth all day...and I am hating myself for being so weak and still hoping even tho I know this...even asking questions by mail once that thing, that wound opened back up and was bleeding... not that I had healed, but you know how I mean...

and then spiraling...even found myself writing her a letter about the dangers and emptiness of that Dom/Sub stuff and to take care...and found myself saying wtf am i doing and not sending...like I am going to be the one to protect her in her new thing? My god...

My Mother told me once she was told by a therapist she was BDP...I believe that actually given my childhood...I was almost treated like a thing she would show love to and then take it away for no reason...it was never constant and steady...it was intermittent and was decided by her moods...and then as an adult I know I have this caretaker, hero attitude...I will be the ONE who can help...that will verify me and she will see I am the man for her...its a terrible dynamic...I look back thru so many of my relationships...many different women but all needed help in some way emotionally and I played out that hero aspect...seemingly very different women from other countries and cultures even...on the surface so different...but all the time that same bad script playing out beneath and fueling it...it's so pathetic on my part.

[B53]

Cash,
Believe it or not, crying is a good thing!
Look up CODA, it’s a codependency support group. I went for quite a few years and got my life back. That is why I left my BP relationship, I was heading down that road again and I have worked too hard on myself to let that happen. It’s time for you to be your own hero.
B53

[cash05458]

Thank you for those kind words B53...I will look into that...also would like to find a therapist if I can...I have done therapy before and it certainly helped...

[cash05458]

B53...about our earlier talk about the stages of grief and a death...looking at these things I know I am certainly in the first stage, of Denial.

This doesn't even feel real to me...the whole situation...so much and so quickly...at times I catch myself and it swings in: my god, this is really happening...meanwhile it's all submerged in the feeling of being overwhelmed...but yes, certainly I am in Denial.

[cash05458]

One other detail in this...I mentioned before that I am friends with an older (in their 70's) couple next door...they have been very sweet. The older woman mentioned to me yesterday as I stopped to say hi while walking my wonderful dog..."you know, I think she still cares about you...I am not supposed to say, but she writes me on facebook every other day to check in on you...wants to know if I saw you and if you are ok..."

I said to her..."no offense and you have done nothing wrong at all...but I would like to ask you not to respond...or I cant ask you who not to talk to on facebook...but please dont give her any info on me ok? say something like "haven't spoken to him...but we saw his tracks in the snow...or something that doesn't give any updates...I dont feel she has a right..." She agreed...


The very idea that these two weeks she was being given little updates...this older woman meant well of course...by my GF manipulating her into doing that...their windows next door practically look into mine...and my GF getting messages back when she writes to ask "how does he seem?...I am just concerned for his well being..." after she pulled all this terrible stuff...she asked this well meaning, caring neighbor..."please keep an eye out on him...I am so concerned and care so much."

Not sure why that bothered me so much...but something so manipulative and deceptive...at least in my thoughts...

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Cash-

Your gut is spot on.  The reason you feel that your ex contacting your elderly neighbor for updates about your “well-being” is manipulative is... because it IS manipulative.  Extremely manipulative.  AND that action has a name -  “Triangulation”.  You can simply google the term.

It sounds as if you approached your neighbor in the kindest way possible.  And sadly, if you have in fact been sharing details of what has transpired in your relationship with this couple, you may now wish to choose a more neutral and supportive friend to share those details with... people with whom your ex is NOT friends.  You really need people of your own.

Sharing a drink or a coffee and friendly time with these folks is fine, and positive news, but feelings of sadness... probably not a good idea for awhile.  Sorry.

I don’t like saying this... but in light of her behaviors, Your ex is not looking out for your interests.  She is trying to butter up her OWN image in the eyes of these neighbors... just in case she “chooses” to return to you.  But that “choice” will NOT be hers (only she does not know that right now, does she?).

Cash, There is something I noticed in your first post I believe, yet I neglected to point out in my first response to you.  I really admired the strength you showed when your now ex wanted to return as she was “exploring” this other thing... insisting that she be permitted to come home and FaceTime with this person while living in your home.

You may not realize this, but you DID value yourself... you DID establish a HARD boundary on that when you said “no”.  Many people would have allowed a BPD partner back home, thinking the minute the partner walked back in they’d be able to “convince” the partner to “love me!”. 

My friend, Although the pain in this is truly deep, it is vital for you to understand that you DO have an admirable level of self-respect, despite the things you went through growing up.  And despite what you’ve endured through 6 years living with a pwBPD.  SOMEWHERE in you... you knew there was something that could NOT be trusted about this thing.  What do you think that was?  I wonder...

I know you asked me to provide what I believe her reactions will be once reality hits.  I’ve got to run right now, and I’ll address that later this evening.

There are some nice sayings I’ve picked up over the 3.5 years I’ve been on these boards.  One is “Life is lived forward, understood backward”. 

And my personal motto is “you cannot love someone to wellness”.   I am now 63 years old.  I finally DO know what I’m saying.  And what I’m feeling.

Warmly,
Gems

[cash05458]

Gem, deep deep thanks for those words and taking the time to even care about the situation this person (me) you have never met...

Yes, via the couple, they do know a few things...I was at their place the night she showed up with the uhaul...so did talk some of my confusions. I will stop that. I know the woman meant well and was manipulated. They certainly think something is very wrong about my ex...but of course that isn't the point. I will keep clear boundaries with them. I also don't want for them to feel involved in any way. I value them as neighbors that I really like. I don't want to hurt that. These are good folk.

well, you asked about me being able to draw that line. I think she prolly would have returned home if I had agreed. She seems crazy in love with this new facebook friend. Not being able to continue was the motivation for the move, for the  hard  and sudden split. I didn't really ever imagine it going that way to be honest and it's hurt, badly as you understand.

I just knew I could not...that I felt humiliation about her and him anyhow...but to let and agree to it in our own home...would be so MUCH more humiliating...to me, it would have been the ultimate humiliation and if I simply agreed, I was afraid of being lost for good. If I was so weak that I allowed that...well, I just be agreeing literally to abuse me...and I feel abused enough myself over all this...I can't join in that abuse towards my self. I thought as well she needed to hear a firm NO, that isnt going to go on.

Of course I didn't really know it would lead to all this...but still, I would not let her back in while doing this stuff with him. even after all this pain and confusion.

That she so openly now states that I am not "her man"...that "he is..." and the things she is doing with him on cam...well, it is so very far out there and so deeply dark...that I am realizing this is so far out of my hands...she told me she literally got "close" to him on dec. 5th and it's just been a whilrwind for her...but that she is so very in love with him...and no longer considers me any thing other than a friend, that her one sole desire is to see me "get thru this and be strong again...nothing more"...all of this after she is the one who put me here.

I guess what I am saying is that hearing these things, knowing about the sex cam stuff with a total stranger she is now convinced he is her "new man" and that he is the most incredible man she has ever loved in her life...all this two weeks after leaving...well, it is so crazy (and I dont like to throw around that term to be honest)...but it is so far out there and nuts and crazy...and so beyond "couple trouble" or us working thru anything...that I can't do a single thing about it...that it almost calmed me a lil if that makes sense? Like, this is so obviously insane...this isnt up to me any longer...I am totally powerless given this type of deep mental manic state...it is for a psychiatric clinic...not me...if that makes sense...

of course the longing and pain is still there, dont mean that...

[cash05458]

the other thing I wanted to add...altho I am so depressed and overwhelmed by all this...so not feeling well at all obviously...but I have noticed this: (again, I still feel terrible...so not claiming I am "ok and everything is better")...the house alone here now seems much less stress free..what  I mean is I am not waiting for the next rage attack or even just her emotions...I see now how our house was entirely constructed around her moods...either I was trying to help with her moods, or afraid of them when about us/me...or even relieved that nothing was going on that day...the rage  attacks alone: either going thru one, recovering from the last, waiting for the next...in itself is a small  shining beacon I think I can see over on the mountain thru the fog...

the whole dynamic here has been structured to deal with her emotions and moods...just as an aside, even all our pets seem calmer...

as for ever letting her back in while she speaks and goes on with her new "master" I know that would be not only her abusing me, but ME joining in that abuse towards MYSELF...If I went into that dark place I don't think I would ever emerge...and not to be overly dramatic, but I would prefer even death over that...(and no, not suicidal...no worries)...

[cash05458]

actually...keep getting notes from her...holy smokes did it feel good to send her a note early today after she sent me another one playing all kind and caring..."thank you, but please stop writing...I get that you have a new bf...please focus all your energy on him...that is only correct...and please dont write me again unless it is for some factual reason about pets etc and picking up...I wish you the best...but I totally agree  that we should not be together nor try to get back together...our relationship of six years frankly has been atomized...it can never but put back in any sense even in future after we both learn about ourselves...so please focus, again on your new thing...it is most healthy you do that...and frankly, I dont talk to other men's women...and you are his...he is your guy...focus on him...not me...we are not a couple...we are done and that should be a relief to you...I am finally there with you...this is transparent from both...good luck, honestly"...

now THAT feels like friggin xmas of old days...

[crushedagain]

I haven't read every single post but I just wanted to say that this woman is extremely cruel to the point that she sounds like a narcissist. Narcissists enjoy hurting people. They are devoid of empathy and will intentionally inflict pain upon others. That is what she is doing to you. I hope you can find the strength to completely block her so you can heal. Nothing good can come from contact with this, dare I say, evil woman.

I am terribly sorry you've had to go through something like this. It must have been unimaginable pain for her to start detailing her phone sex exploits a little more than a week after leaving you. How disgusting. You can do better than that. You do not deserve such a level of disrespect. Nobody does.

[cash05458]

thank you Crushed Again...yes, and it has been a insane and crushing few weeks...even from reading some of the terrible stories folks share here...this one has been pretty extreme in that sense...I am and have gone now hard NC... it's the ONLY way I now see for my own recovery. I want that recovery.

[cash05458]

whew, going thru the bends after establishing the  hard NC...why is this so incredibly hard and confusing? I know I have to accept REALITY to move forward...why is there a sense of loss when I know the return or even still wanting will hurt me even more? It's an odd feeling deciding I have to fully establish this...I know it's for the best...but my god...

[B53]

Cash,
It might not feel that way to You, but I see progress. You’re doing well under the circumstances. Hang in there, baby steps.
B53

[cash05458]

Thank you so much B53 for saying that...I genuinely hope that is the case...I want progress; I don't expect miracles. Thank you...

[crushedagain]

When you think about it, there would be incredible pain after the breakup of a "normal" 6 year relationship, which is a lot of what you are feeling. The BPD (and whatever else this woman has) only compounds that. Her actions have only made everything worse. Rubbing your face in what she is doing with another man is disgusting beyond words. You would have been well within your right to hang up on her.

[cash05458]

Thank Crushed Again...she would not really call up to boast...but rather it would be worked in between the lines...if it were a "real" guy she had met...I think this would even make more sense and be less crushing...rather it is a guy she met on facebook three weeks ago...they have never met... he lives 3000 miles away in another country...but has become her new "soulmate"...for some reason that hurts even more...like I am that worthless to her? The real me is worth doing this to...for so far, an electronic penpal and cam sex playmate? After 6 years of sharing our lives, living together wherein we both told one another constantly we were a forever thing? I just so feel so abandoned...I know those are just words adn folks go thru these things...but so hard to grasp inside myself.

[crushedagain]

I do not believe it is possible to be "in love" with a person who you have never met in person, even if you saw them on camera. In my opinion, the likelihood of this working out after she travels to Europe is ZERO. This guy will use her for a while and discard her like a piece of trash. Sex is no foundation for a lasting relationship.

[cash05458]

I agree...but they are on phone constantly as well...she literally started talking to him on dec 5th she says...but yes, most likely you are right...and altho it upsets me, I guess the real thing is my life...not hers...I believe she has taken all those feelings we had, and poured it into this imaginary figure for self protection...perhaps we had to break up as that is a possibility for any couple...but my god, not this way...

[Gemsforeyes]

Hey Cash -

This will likely be somewhat long... I’ll apologize in advance.

I’m no expert.  How I see things are merely my opinions.  Nothing more.  And again, I am so very sorry for your pain and confusion.  There is NO way to soothe that pain or clear up the confusion for you.  Not right now.  I do however believe that things will begin to crystallize for you in the coming days/few weeks.  Not necessarily over her destructive behaviors NOW, in the last three weeks, but in how you’ve ALWAYS likely been the “glue”, so to speak - “for” her.  If you were to look VERY VERY closely. 

You don’t need to answer... but give this some thought, and perhaps put pen to paper, or fingertips to keyboard- for your eyes.  And share here if that will help.  Begin to journal about this relationship- that WILL help you.  This I can assure you, my friend.

As for your home... any home shared with a disordered person... Oh how I relate.  I live in a home too large for me.  Yet when my ex NPD/BPD was here, it felt that every wall closed in and shook from his presence, waiting for the next explosion.  This home felt so small, tiny, like I was suffocating in what belonged to me.  Yet HE behaved as if he “owned” it.  And me.  And without him in it... I can breathe.  And now it is HUGE.  Way too large for me and my sweet dog.  The sad part is, he also “owned” every moment of my time.  I lived in a state of anticipation.  For 6.5 years.  I am unwinding that feeling, those feelings.  You’ll need to do the same.

I came to understand that I was largely “functional” in many ways to him / for him... in daily life and intimately.  Everything in every way was about him.  Or HIS family (but really “him”).  And he has tried to return... in his “subtle” (so he thinks) ways, since we parted in 2/2020.  I will not allow that.  His latest attempt was on 12/14 and I knew it was coming, yet was still surprised when the text arrived.  I am still afraid to block him.  Afraid of his RAGE.  So I answered his long paragraphs of text with a neutral, “glad you’re doing ok” response.  I know what he REALLY wanted... The timing of the contact said it all... and I am so OUT after the everything he’s done. 

I know I’m selfishly weaving parts of my story into yours, but sometimes that can help us identify things we may not have seen in our own relationships.  It took me YEARS to see parallels between this rs and my 19-year marriage. 

Can you see anything yet?

It’s up to “us” to be out once our eyes fall open.  Our hearts take awhile to follow... but they will eventually.  We need to remember that the persona who was introduced at the beginning is NOT the person who moved in and took up residence.  That lover exited pretty quickly.  They are NOT two people.

I’ve more to say, but I want to split this into two parts.  The next is about preparing yourself for what I believe may likely come next... when her fantasy implodes.  Pretty sure it will.  There are selfish reasons she keeps you in her “orbit”.

Your obligation is to you and you alone.  Your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gems

[Gemsforeyes]

Hey Cash-  this may be a hard read...  please stay with me.

What I fear... is that this thing she’s engaging in is going to fall apart, in a ball of flames, and she’s going to run back to you to make everything all better for her. 

It’s up to you to prepare yourself for this possibility.  And figure out ahead of time where you stand.

The reasons I see this burning itself out are because -
Like you’ve said... to begin with:
*it’s all on a screen. 
*He lives in another country. 
*He lives with a 95-year old and a 90-year old
*They can BOTH present WHATEVER they wish on a screen or by phone.  In person is an entirely different matter.
*IF, and that’s a big IF, the day comes when she does make it to England, what are the chances that he will really REALLY be able to give in to ALL of her demands and desires while still serving the ongoing needs of the elderly people he lives with?

*For all anyone knows, this may be how this guy keeps himself “occupied”, while he’s actually covertly incested with his elderly mother /aunt.  This is a difficult one... my ex had a very twisted relationship his mother (covert incest aka emotional incest is a real thing).

*Your ex is used to privacy... she will NOT have that there... more demands he will NOT be able to meet.  She is used to being the primary and ONLY focus.  Likely NOT going to happen for three straight months, let alone a week... unless he completely moves out of where he’s now residing.

*She doesn’t question why he hasn’t had a relationship in 20 years? Oh, right... he hadn’t met HER!

Maybe I’m tainted.  Maybe not.

If this thing had played out differently from the start and she hadn’t dragged your heart into it; if she hadn’t been so awful about the whole thing... well things happen.  Relationships do change and end.  But this?  Like this?  Stable new relationships generally don’t begin like this... at least I don’t believe they do. 

Others may have alternate viewpoints.  I’m 63 and no prude, but I just don’t see it.

So now to you, Cash.  Door open or door closed?

If and when it crashes and she comes back... Her attempts toward you will likely be made with EVERY tool she has in her belt.  Crying... no. Sobbing, pleading, begging, promises, you’re her man and always HAVE been, excuses... if only YOU had... ahhh, and then YOU will find yourself apologizing.  Every memory, every known soft spot of yours, every sensitivity, tenderness, past experience, song, photo, pet, cuddle... you get the gist of it.  She will be desperate like you’ve never seen.  And she will MEAN it.  In that particular moment.  In that particular moment.

So please use caution.  And this CAN take place whether or not the thing falls apart before she ever makes it to the airport.  Could happen tomorrow, next week, end of January.  Or... after she’s been in England for a period of time. 

It’s all ugly to think about.  It ALL hurts to think about.  It’s all hard to read.  All of it, I’m so sorry.  Please forgive me.

But these people will make a hard hard play for what they think they want.  I know this.  From experience.  I also know that I have forgiven unforgivable behaviors over and over.  From both my exH and my exBF. 

So please, Cash.  If this does happen.  If you do happen to forgive and re-enter the relationship, please know that so so MANY of us have done this...many times.  And there will be no judgment.  At all.  You hold love for this woman.  We know and understand that.

When you have the strength, Your thoughts?  Or... you may not yet be in a position to have any thoughts on this.  Likely too soon.  Share as you are able.

Please just know, that her behaviors have ALWAYS been about the emptiness in her.  Not you.  It took me a long time to know this.

Warmly,
Gems

[crushedagain]

I happen to believe she's going to try to come back, too, especially since this new "relationship" has absolutely no chance. London? HAH! A guy living with two old women (I missed that) who has not been in a relationship for 20 years? I bet he figures out a way to cancel her trip there. He's in it for the free video sex.

[cash05458]

Gem (and Crushed)...thank you...

Gem I want to take the time to answer your long, heartfelt notes...yesterday for some reason was worst than xmas...will do so later this morning in full after my head clears abit...but thanks you from bottom of heart to take the time to write all that out...will respond when a little more clear hopefully later this morning...

[Gemsforeyes]

Hey Cash-

Take as much time as you need.  It was so much, I know.

For some reason, I completely fell apart yesterday, too.  Cried I don’t know how many times... normally just once a day for a few minutes.  Fast intense crying jags.  But I cried over growing food lines, unemployment claims running out, no government action, people dying, people flying, healthcare workers, a bomb in Nashville, I haven’t vacuumed, my obligations to elderly family members, loneliness...  you name it.  Even Cursed a blue streak when I realized I could NOT see the NFL games on network TV.  Go figure... who does that?  Me.

Thought to myself... I’ve GOT to do SOMETHING different.  Started taking B complex to work on this anxiety.   And this morning, instead of looking at ANY news, I turned on music and read funny stuff that buzzfeed shows.  Just a different start to the day.  MY patterns need to change...

So my friend, take your time.

Hugs to you,
Gems

[cash05458]

Gem...yesterday...the day after xmas was hard for both...I am sure for many...I had to at least keep up some facade of self for self to get thru xmas...then, day after...let it go...maybe the same for you I think...

Yes, take B complex...it helps...I do the same...even tho I can hardly eat...taking vitamins to try to keep brain chemistry a lil on my side..

doing what I shouldnt do...looked at her facebook page today...all sorts of public love notes back to one another and posting songs...their new songs..."for her, my great great love...my lover...my lover for always..."

ack, my fault for looking...but of course throws me into a tailspin...just so damaging...

maybe for her, him being on facebook and not yet "real" is the key...BP's need something new...but it's a way to feel totally "close" to someone and pour everything into...but it's totally at a distance...just a screen and voice and images...I don't know...but tell myself that to deal with the pain...

What you said about the house is so true...now that she is gone, and even tho doing terrible...I see the place was literally run on her emotions...like it was the source of all power...the axis all spun around...good/bad...did not matter...like I was some sort of toy to entertain her emotions...a jester...a healer...and target to smash...

as for keeping the door open a crack or finally shutting it...I don't know...well, I "Know" the right and correct thing for myself...yes; but emotions are all over the place...mostly I think as well from this major atomizing of "us" over the last few weeks...it has been so crazy and tough...just shellshocked...like recent war damage...I wake up at night in bed and it's like the phantom arm I just lost in some terrible event...

 thank you for speaking to me here as it is helping tho we don't know one another and I am so sorry you are hurting so badly...I hope my speaking about this isn't bringing up flashbacks...I don't want that...you are so kind Gem...

[crushedagain]

This is just my opinion of course, but she has done a handful of unforgivable things. Those are boundaries which, if crossed, are the end of a relationship for me. Things like cheating, intentional abuse, lying and stealing - I will never accept them from a person who is supposed to be a loved one. I end relationships if/when that happens. There's no more trust, and no way back.

It will be up to you to decide what is tolerable, but I do not see a person even worth forgiving here. She seems rotten almost to the very core - diabolical in a way. What she has done to you is sickening. I hope you stop looking at Facebook. You are torturing yourself.

[cash05458]

yes Crushed...you are right...about it all...I know this...and need to bring it into reality...

[crushedagain]

I am not suggesting this in any way as it would be horrible advice for any person, not just one who is suffering after a relationship with BPD person, but I almost feel like in your situation I wish you'd meet another woman, and quick. Just get that nasty taste out of your mouth, if you know what I mean. Rebounding is not a great way to establish a new, lasting relationship, but the comforts of another woman could perhaps go a long way in extracting yourself from this last one, and enjoying your time more rather than dwelling on things.

Again, this is not a suggestion, just something I've often thought of myself. I have always been one to suffer long after a relationship is over, and wonder if I've been doing it wrong, that maybe I should have been focusing on finding the right one rather than wallowing in misery for an extended period of time. I am a very monogamous person, so it's difficult to go from one to the other.

Just thinking out loud here. I guess part of me was hoping you would meet a new woman, then the ex would come back and you'd be able to say "I'm sorry, I've met a wonderful woman and I'd like you to never contact me again." It would be fitting. 

[cash05458]

Crushed...thank you...in some strange way that would prolly "work" for me to fill in the hole...just as a life vest to get to  the shore...but I just can't work that way as it sounds like for self...not out of stubbornness...it's just me, you know... just nature...but I want to work thru all this for self...and not even in sense of no baggage as they say next relationship so that it might be better...that, but not mainly that...I don't want to use anyone else to fill in the hole...then I become her in a strange sense and follow her path...and I don't want that...it's what I want to come to reject.

[crushedagain]

Like I said, I was not suggesting or recommending it, I was just trying to think outside of the box from what I am used to doing. Your situation is so toxic that I hope for your sake you can remain strong and not be tempted when she invariably comes back, because I truly believe she will. This thing she's doing is completely unsustainable.

[cash05458]

Crushed...yes, I agree with you...her lifestyle change has been so abrupt I doubt she can sustain...I need to make sure there is no return...I want to be strong..

Besides her online "boyfriend"...she went from being a 60 year old respectable school teacher here in our small town...to now living in practically a college type house scene with roommates with no job, no plans to get one and just use her unemployment, and literally staying high on weed 24/7...

[cash05458]

also, altho I cant get a therapist...there are just none free at my Heath care place, nor any free around here...I have called my Doctor this morning and left a message for her to call me about going on anti depressants or at least discuss it with her...I would hope to only have to do that short term to get out of this ...realize it will take some time to kick in, but feel it's prolly a good idea. I want to face this and work it thru for myself but feel I need some temporary help to get thru the roughest part. Trying to stay exercising some, trying to eat but having a hard time with that...tho I do force myself to eat...have no scale here but think I must have lost 15 pounds since this began.

[cash05458]

I know I need to be strong should this swing back towards me...the very idea of taking her back after all of this is simply crazy...she has done SO MANY things , and still is, to make any idea of "fixing" us just a totally unrealistic idea...she has gone waaaay past the point of no return...I need to be strong and focus on that and my way forward...objectively, it has helped hearing folks here, and in my life tell me that after all she has actively done and is doing, it would be crazy on my part to take her back here or work on us in any way...this has been so overwhelming and heavy and constant and fast...it's like my basic defense systems have been stripped...just sadness and terrible depression rather than anger...I should be angryat what she has doen  and is doing..other relationships, I would have been...like "How F===kin Dare you!" Yet its not there yet...or "you want this electronic clown? Have him...I am gone...don't return"...and yet those feelings stay hidden by this sadness...maybe because it came all at once and was so sudden and dramatic...so I am in a state of shock...

[cash05458]

and Gem, I think you are right...I always have been the "glue"...I think perhaps that is the clue to her still contacting me and keeping her finger in...all the while saying she doesn't want anything or is unsure of working anything out with us etc...in some way I think I played the role of her life as a sort of therapist...not good I know...and I am not a therapist...but my background is a Phd in Philosophy and decades of studying Freud at a hardcore academic level...I went thru analysis myself when younger...very aware of most of my backgrounding of current problems (still, that doesnt mean you actually can change them so easily...but you are aware of source...say, the foundational stuff of my Mother and my saving complexes)...I am very good at talking with folks about their problems...and people find that attractive...I say all that because in thinking about this "glue" I think that is spot on when I look over the previous 6 years...and altho she is a few years older than I am...I am 56...this is almost like I have a rebellious and messed up teen daughter...going her way and doing all the wrong things...yet still needing to report back to Daddy...fighting me every step of the way, taking it deeper, but not stopping...and then somehow she wanting to make sure I am "still there"...and of course I am NOT her Father...I am her lover, ex lover...whatever... 

[cash05458]

It honestly is like she has regressed to the state of a little girl..." I will do anything I want and you can't stop me...but I know you will always love me..." and as if sex and other men are some new found toy...filling in that gap of a six year thing ending with someone else so quickly, and at such a fantasy level just shuts down any working thru for herself, anything really...just a stopgap thing  to ensure the repetition cycle stays exactly the same...yet this whole thing and all these actions are termed by her as "her time...time to understand and grow and find oneself"...

[Gemsforeyes]

Hey Cash-

I’ve been on the boards more in the last few days than normal.  I think because I’ve been highly “triggered” as we say... likely several reasons.

We all just want some peace.  I’ve been out since 2/13/20.  But he has a way of “checking in” and as I mentioned, did that again on 12/14.  That day was pretty easy, predictable.  Since the day after Christmas, I have struggled mightily to NOT contact him for “comfort”.  But I realize... he NEVER comforted or supported me in any real way, shape or form... so why would he now?  He would NOT.  Opening myself to that would be like taking a knife to my own throat. 

I have been in “lockdown” since 1/9/2020... when my doc thinks I actually had Covid (no proof, too early...). Was so sick for 7 weeks, left the house twice in early March when family came to visit, and then we went into “real” lockdown.  I have to protect my 88-year old mom, who lives nearby, and another elderly relative.  I know, boo hoo for me...  sorry.

That was that.

This is a horribly confusing time for you, but there are things to see clearly.

The person who betrayed you is HER, not him.  I know it sounds odd, but try not to swallow yourself down into calling him names (clown, loser, etc).  That only hurts you.  He will somehow learn - “what someone does FOR you, they will also do TO you”..  meaning she may very well cheat on him when his usefulness is exhausted.

You don’t know a thing about him, but you do know and ARE learning about HER character.  Remember THAT.

I’m saying this for a reason, Cash.  When my exBF would tell me things... like I was “disinvited for Christmas” by that mother... despite the twisted rs they had; it wasn’t because she disliked me on her OWN, it was because HE lied and smeared me to her.  I spent precious energy hurting terribly over that (and blaming blameless people) until I figured out what actually took place.  Jeez... he tried talking smack about my own family to ME, so why not spread awful lies about me to HIS family?  Made sick sense to him.

So your pain and anger (when it comes) lies solely with her.  You’ve got no idea what lies she’s told him about you.  And you never will.  That is the truth about BPD/NPD people. They do what best serves them each and everyday.  It doesn’t matter whose reputation gets splattered in the process.  And you’ve got to ignore it.  Just ignore what she does to justify her behaviors.

Finally, the Facebook thing.  Please stop.  Be fair to yourself.  There is a spiritual thought in Judaism.  When you suffer a loss, you are not supposed to do anything that heightens your grief.  Looking at the social media heightens your grief.  And now is a time for you to care for yourself in some way.  Can you please try?

Yes, Cash.  We are “strangers” here.  But there is a shared experience that many people do not understand or grasp the depth of.  There just isn’t a “pull up your bootstraps”, be a man, put on your big girl panties, approach to these things.  This pain can feel “other-worldly” and evoke some deep shame in us.  That’s why we help one another.

From my standpoint, I came to the conclusion of... a few months after this rs ended.. I don’t know, something like “who on EARTH did I think I was that I could heal this truly SICK man?  I came to see myself almost as “arrogant”.  Really almost believing where everyone else in his entire life had failed to make him kind, I would be THE ONE to do that?   Right... like I said, I just could not love him to wellness.  And no, he wasn’t all “bad”.  Of course he wasn’t.  But I have to forget the good.

Nothing makes me that special.  I get it now.  And that’s what breaks me.

Warmly,
Gems

[cash05458]

Gems...I am sorry you have been triggered some...prolly talking with me hasn't helped...I am so sorry for everything you are going thru and have gone thru with your ex.

But you are being strong doing all you have to...all the while in pain...that takes a lot of strength...and sensibility...I really admire how you are holding to his onslaught for yourself...I really am...if you can, try to feel good about that thru the pain...

You are right, I should stop the name calling of this other guy. It just lowers myself as well.

Well, I have some news from today. The last time we spoke she mentioned she wanted to return half the money from our co account...we had about 3 grand in there. So she was going to return 1500 so I could find a cheap car to get a job...she knows how dangerous this is for me that way...living way out in country and having to have a car to help self at all...so she said we would talk about it today... so she was to call.

She didnt call tonight so I tried her...my number has been blocked...so sent her an email asking what is going on...it came back as blocked as well...so now she is obviously ghosting me...and taking away any hope I had of getting on feet...it is pretty messed up and scary...not even sure what to think or feel as it is just another shock...

[Gemsforeyes]

Oh Cash-

I am so so sorry...

These will be the reminders of why you’ve got to build your walls and refuse any attempts by her at reconciliation.

To my way of thinking, what she’s now doing is somehow “demonizing” you (in any way possible) to justify what she’s done.

There is NO logic to her actions... so please don’t even try to apply logical thinking to the whys of any of this... it just “is”.

You can send a text... that says something to the affect of “your action and dishonesty feel nearly unforgivable” (if you can mean it).  And when she unblocks you, and she WILL, she’ll then receive it.  How would that sit with you?

Ghosting is expected.  Especially since you expressed a desire to no longer hear details of what she’s doing.  She’s “punishing” you.  

Cash - please know that you deserve NONE of this abusive treatment.

Are there any friends or any other support people you can contact for interim financial assistance?  Please, please try to not lose all hope.  

Surrendering to selfish people like this cannot ever be an option.  Not like this, my friend.  Oh.  And from now on... please try and tell her NOTHING about your life, your feelings, etc.  go completely “grey rock”.

Also, no you did not trigger me.  So please don’t worry about that.

I am so deeply sorry.

Warmly,
Gems

[cash05458]

Gems, thank you for that...deep thanks and I am glad speaking so kindly with me hasn't triggered you.

No, there is noone to turn to financially for help...I am on my own...

I swear this girl wants me dead or homeless...
I can send her such a text...but to be honest I don't even think it would scratch the surface with her in the least...

If I get thru this, this is just another reason to completely and forever end this with this person...I can't imagine how she can even possibly do this. All she has done has been so terrible...but this just borders on evil...she is totally aware of the spot I am in and how dangerous it is...

[crushedagain]

When she decided to rip you off and leave you in a lurch, that to me was the lowest. Cheating on you is scummy, but she took it to a new level by cleaning out the account. That is truly unforgivable, and if it weren't a joint account I would file a police report. And she had the audacity to still talk to you after that, regaling you with stories of her sex "performances" for him? This woman is filth. That may sound harsh, but I mean it. You have been disrespected and assailed in countless ways.

[cash05458]

Thank you B53...I know you are right...I think sh egot scared of the ghosting thing as she claims it was "technical issue"...whatever, I dont really care...I am way past my point with her via anything ever returning via us...I also know she is pretty much just staying high on weed ALL the time...like waking up stoned at 4 oclock to eat another pot brownie and down another bottle of wine...if this move was, as she says, to figure out who she is, grow and be the woman she thinks she has kept stifled for so long...well, it doesn't seem to be working that way...if this is the time for 'positive" things in her life God help her...I can't...

[cash05458]

oops, meant Crushed...not B53 (tho I thank you as well)...yes, the cleaning out the bank account is just the ultimate game changer...especially in my vulnerable position...as for the new guy, well...he can have her...honest...all yours my man...I would like her to be fair at the end here to help via my own money...don't really want the police involved tho as those things almost always go haywire...but via any notion of there ever being an "US" has died for me...seriously, it is like she has regressed to a childhood little girl state...which baffles me at her age of 60...

[cash05458]

B53, Crushed and Gem...and any still reading...

I think the real danger for me is via a quick return...I know myself in this area at least...if she were to return, say next week or month or maybe even 2...I would be in danger of taking her back as the wounds are still so overwhelming...but I also know that say 5 or 6 months down the line, when the trauma wasn't so immediate, the danger would be practically nil...if that makes sense...I react to immediate stuff more than long term...with immediate trauma like this I lose my boundaries...after a decent amount of time, they return...six months from now her calling after, say going to england, finding out its not real or she still has feelings for me, I know my answer: it would be a hard and fast No...

In that sense, perhaps I need to look at the new "boyfriend" in such a manner...encourage it (to myself I mean...not her)...if that is the hook that leads her down the path to clear out these things and give me time to get to that point down the line, then perhaps it is an odd blessing... 

[Gemsforeyes]

Hey Cash-

There is ALWAYS the danger of us allowing our partners to return.  But that’s our issue... not theirs.  And that’s what you need to work HARD on, now.  Please ask yourself the “why’s”, the reasons that ANY OF THIS would sit ok with you.

Another thing I would ask of you... please try and stop referring to her as a “little girl”.  These behaviors do NOT in any way reflect those of little girls.  I was once a little girl.  And I NEVER once engaged in stealing money, lying, ghosting, screen sex.  So no.  Just NO.

THESE are the behaviors of a maladjusted adult who’s been married 5 times and has NEVER seen anything at all wrong with her behavior. EVER.

And she never will if people like us keep making it okay for her.

This is not an indictment of you.  I did it too.  Until I saw the dysfunction in me.  When I truly realized... “oh my GOD. now I disrespect MYSELF, the way he does me”.  And that’s what got me out.

You’ve got to ALLOW yourself to be okay without her.

And yes,  it’s been that kind of week.  I am truly sorry.

Hugs,
Gems

[brighter future]

oops, meant Crushed...not B53 (tho I thank you as well)...yes, the cleaning out the bank account is just the ultimate game changer...especially in my vulnerable position...as for the new guy, well...he can have her...honest...all yours my man...I would like her to be fair at the end here to help via my own money...don't really want the police involved tho as those things almost always go haywire...but via any notion of there ever being an "US" has died for me...seriously, it is like she has regressed to a childhood little girl state...which baffles me at her age of 60...

Hello, Cash. I meant to respond further to you a week ago, but I decided to take a little break from posting in the forum for a while. Stopping by is very beneficial to me, but if I spend too much time here it tends to set me back a little sometimes. I'm going to share some of my experiences with you in regards to pwBPD being child-like.

Before the uBPD ex-g/f that I told you about in prior posts, there was my BPD ex-wife. I did not learn that my ex-wife had BPD until 1-2 years after our divorce. It came out in a forensic psychologist's report during our final trial for the custody of our child when I was awarded majority custody. She never revealed the BPD diagnoses to me while we were married or during the separation (I left her). I was only aware of the eating disorders, major depression, PTSD, suicidal ideation, etc. After the birth of our child 8.5 years ago, all of these disorders came out in full force. Also in the psychologists report, I learned that all of these disorders originated back to when my ex-wife was a pre-teen and she never received any kind of treatment until after our daughter was born. I urged her to seek help. Eight and a half years later, she is still in and out of inpatient and outpatient treatment. Matter of fact, she just returned home from a 2 month inpatient stay in a facility out of state. These are lifelong disorders that will never go away, and she will need constant maintenance (therapy) of some kind.

I regards to your comment about your ex regressing to her childhood, that's one of the many traits of the disorder unfortunately. Sadly, people with BPD never really develop emotionally, and they have no sense of self. My ex-wife goes through strange stages like this. For instance, during late 2013 - 2015, when she was 32-33 years of age, she started dressing like a teenager. She frequented the teeny bopper stores Forever 21 and American Eagle and built up a whole new wardrobe while maxing out her credit cards in the process. During that time, she also began talking like a teenager and changed her dialect. It was very bizarre.

Fast forward to today, she dresses in a frumpy manner and wears clothing that are really not very flattering. In her spare time, she loves to watch animated Disney kids movies. When she was away at the treatment center she called our child to speak with her usually twice per week in the evenings. My daughter always puts the phone on speaker, so I usually hear the conversations. She told our daughter one night, "Momma has been laying her all evening watching Frozen 2 (Disney) and cuddling with her stuffed animals." This is coming from a woman that will be 39 in the coming months.

In comparison, my uBPD ex-g/f's rebound guy after me is her ex high school boyfriend's identical twin brother who she described to me as her first love. As I said before, he was her rebound after she left her ex-husband, and is her rebound once again after her relationship with me. I heard stuff from mutual friends in the months following our breakup. They said it was like she'd reverted back to her high school days. Supposedly for several months, I was told there were several juvenile social media posts from her about this new man including a lot of high school like selfies. She told two of our mutual friends that the rebound guy "Lost his job, car,  and driver's license last year to multiple DUIs. But, he has a job again and was able to finally buy a used car a while back." Our mutual friend said to hear her say all of this, it sounded like she was back in her high school days. She also bragged about hanging out with the her ex-b/f's family again via the twin brother that's her new (recycled) b/f and stated that her ex-b/f "doesn't have a problem with me dating his brother." I was told that she's friended all of that family on her social media just like she did with most of my family and friends when she was with me. All of my family has since removed her from their social media after what happened between her and I. They were baffled and some were quite angered at her actions, especially since she told several of them that she wanted to marry me. Supposedly most of her praise and adornment for the rebound guy started slacking off last September/October. That's when I started hearing from her again on and off. I guess the excitement for her and the honeymoon phase is starting to wear off. I am well beyond wanting her back, but at times I still feel anger towards her and him for the hookup right after our relationship ended. At times I've said to myself, "I hope he gets every bit of the BS that she inflicted on me, except I hope he gets a double dose of it." That's the thing that I'm working on and am trying to get over.

Hang in there and continue to take care of yourself and your needs. I hope that you can get it in with your physician, and she can help you out with some temporary meds to get you through this. I'll continue to keep track of your progress. Best wishes and Happy New Year.

[cash05458]

Gem, I am sorry about comparing to "little girls"...of course it isn't like that for younger...just mean the regression almost to this incredibly narcissistic state on her part...like she is some super delicate thing adn her emotions and how she "feels" are the only thing that matters to her. Of course even little girls and boys don't have that in that sense...very different.

I know what you mean about later. I am not trying to convince myself. I just mean now I am so weak, that is my danger period...and know myself after a good period that I have never "gone back"...of course those were not BPD's...and I have been damaged and tainted prolly...but still, at least that is my hope...that is all I mean by maybe it's just a good thing to get to that point if I can...so the more she is busy with another, I have time...and of course, I need to work on the NOW and everything that has unfolded...I am really trying to feel the anger as her actions have been frankly despicable...not hatred for her...but anger at all she has done and is still doing...I do want to work on the NOW and not count on the later if that makes sense...I am in the most dangerous place via that now as I am so shellshocked and traumatized by these things, no of last three weeks...

for some reason, yesterday and today (so far) have seemed much better in my head...I want that feeling to continue...it feels a little clearer to me and my responses now, these two days anyhow, have been more just kinda "this is such BS...this has gone so over the top in toxic craziness...I need relief from this crap" than overwhelming "oh my god, what is she doing? Is she talking to him now? how is she feeling about us?"   

As for me, trying to understand myself, my background, my now...as to why I have allowed this and my defense system seems practically nil...I want it back and I know I want this toxic person gone for good...toxic as a term is thrown around a lot...but via her actions, she is truly toxic for me...

[cash05458]

Brighter, thank you for that. Reading your account is terrible. I will try to learn for that.

I am thankful for one thing...there are no children involved here...I can see myself justifying about anything if kids were involved...and god knows I am justifying too much now via not feeling anger...

[brighter future]

Brighter, thank you for that. Reading your account is terrible. I will try to learn for that.

I am thankful for one thing...there are no children involved here...I can see myself justifying about anything if kids were involved...and god knows I am justifying too much now via not feeling anger...

When children are involved, it makes things so much more difficult. Thankfully my daughter was only a baby when all of the bad stuff was going on. She was too young to have any recollection of that, and she has no memory of my ex-wife and I living together as a married couple. She knows that her mother and I are divorced, and she'll ask me questions at times about being married to her mother, where we lived, etc. It was awkward when my ex-wife was gone away to treatment for two months. She would tell me time to time that she didn't understand why her mother had been gone for two months "Mom told me she would only be gone for one month." The way her mother explained it to her, my daughter was under the impression that my ex-wife went out of state for work purposes. Like your ex, my ex-wife has had several jobs and has frequent conflict with co-workers and subordinates, which is typical of the disorder.

I'm sure you've said to yourself, how in the world did BF get into two relationships like this in a row? I've finally figured this out since I started therapy last May. When I was five years old, I suffered some childhood trauma at the hands of a non family member. I never told anyone and never sought any treatment for it. The only person I ever told was the ex-girlfriend that I broke up with 8 months ago. She told me about the abuse she suffered at the hands of her uncle as a child. At that time, I felt compelled to get out what I had went through as a young child (and I trusted her), so I shared that with her. This past May I decided to deal with it once and for all in therapy with a professional. My ex-g/f, on the other hand, refuses to deal with it professionally and keeps it buried, and it still haunts her to this day. I pray that one day she will seek help for this.

I feel like what happened to me as a child really hurt my self-confidence and hurt my ability to trust people in certain situations. When I met my ex-wife, I was 30 years old. I had dated several women but had never been engaged. She and I married just before my 32nd birthday. While I loved her, there was a voice inside my head saying that something wasn't quite right. I ignored that voice and married her anyway. I felt like I was getting a bit older, and it was getting more unlikely that I'd find someone to spend my life with. Looking back I should have listened to that voice in my head. I did get a beautiful child out of the marriage who is bright, mentally healthy and happy. Several of us believe that she knows there is something that's not quite right with her mother. One day when she's a bit older, I'm going to have to try explaining things to her in a loving manner.

I thought my ex-g/f was different from my ex-wife because she told me most of her problems in the beginning and throughout the relationship. There was also the fact that we'd each had a crush on each other for 20 years and never did anything about it. That part also clouded my judgement.  She told me stories about being with multiple men before her marriage and had the rebound right after she left her ex-husband. During that time (after her divorce), she was also talking with 3 other guys from her high school days and was even sexting with one of them. She stated that's not who she really was and didn't want to be that person. I saw it as a red flag, then ignored it and proceeded with the relationship. Once again, I was repeating the same behaviors that I had with my ex-wife due to my childhood trauma that I kept inside and never dealt with until I was 43. I felt like I couldn't do better for myself, so I stayed in that relationship and felt like I could fix my ex-g/f. I've made a promise to myself to put a stop to my behavior of getting in these types of relationships, stop rescuing people, and to learn how to fix myself. Hopefully one day I'll get there. This is actually the first time I've acknowledged my childhood trauma in this forum. I've failed to do that in any of the my own threads.

[cash05458]

Brighter...acknowledging here must be a positive step here I think and hope.

No judgements from me about repetition. I too, altho this is my first deep relationship with a BP...see many patterns in my choices via others I get involved with.  The scary thing is that while I have known for a long time my patterns...like you, the savior, the hero...the only one who can be this for her etc...I still find myself in those things with  what are seemingly very different females...what I thought to first to be the case "this person is very different" then turned back into the same old same old...in varying degrees of course. And then onto this actual BP and it fit like a hand in a glove...

all those seemingly different characters always stemming from the same source...which is my pattern and problem of course. That's what I need to work on more. All of that is on me...and even with self knowledge of my patters, it was like a unconsciously saw behind the facade to the real thing as was driven by that...

[cash05458]

I guess I have a question for all who read and have experience...do they actually have real conscience about what they do to us? I mean, for instance...mine is now emotionally dependent on another and has practically destroyed me these last three weeks with not only cruelty, but no seeming care in the world or any concern...do they later feel actual guilt about that? Or is it merely, upon say trying to return that they are merely trying to "save" themselves or actually feel real sorrow and shame at their behaviors towards you...

Is the guilt even there? Or later do they feel actual guilt as to how they treated the other even if it's done and gone fore ever? Is the guilt real or is it just the continuation of self serving behavior?

I would like to hear what folks with experience more than I think about that if they might be so kind... 

[brighter future]

Cash,

I think it depends on the severity of their BP disorder and if there is a lot of comorbidity.

My BPD ex-wife also has strong Narc traits. This is an awful combination, and she shows no remorse for anything. She manipulates everyone, including our own child. She's also a habitual liar, and I think she actually believes the lies that come out of her own mouth. The only people that stay in her life for any length of time is her immediate family. I believe she's dated 4-5 men since our divorce, and all of them have left her. She has frequent issues with immediate family and has periods of time where they don't speak for whatever reason. When we had the forensic evaluation by the psychologist, he described my ex-wife in his report and testimony as "a very difficult individual to get along with that has great difficulty in relationships with other people."

In the case of my uBPD ex-g/f, she showed remorse a good part of the time for her behavior and actions and how they affected others. She even admitted to me that "most of the problems in my life are self-inflicted." One time she even said, "My kids are the way they are because of me. I did this to them." About a year before our breakup, she said "I worry one day I'm going to do something terribly wrong in this relationship and hurt you. Then I will completely shut down, and you won't be able to bring me back."  It's like she was predicting the future because that's what ended up happening. In all reality, she knows that she ultimately does these things and was warning me. I didn't listen at the time  because I thought all of the love and care that I gave her would prevent that from happening.

[cash05458]

Brighter, with mine she gave no such "warnings"...certainly not verbal and clear...altho now that I look back at the rage attacks adn her cruelty therein, I prolly should have seen what she was finally capable of...I just put it down to anger tho I knew something was very wrong with her extreme anger in the rage attacks...taht she has been married 5 times as well was obviously a red flag...at one point she couldn't actually remember exactly how many times she had been married...finally figured it out after a few days..."yes, it wasn't 4 times, it was 5"...that should have said so much to me...frankly tho, I never expected anything like this from her in my worst nightmares...

[crushedagain]

Mine had quiet BPD and was tormented by feelings of shame and guilt. She had her share of meltdowns, but it was not directed at me per se. It was more like crying fits where I had to comfort her, and then I'd find out that she was crying because she thought she was a bad person, or that she was worried I was going to leave her, or whatever insecurity it was at the moment.

During these times of sadness and neediness, she was glued to me. She had to go everywhere I went, she was like my shadow. She always wanted to be touching me, liked to sit in the middle of my truck seat rather than in the passenger seat even. She was hypersensitive. If she cooked me a meal and I asked for a condiment she would chastise herself and say "I ALWAYS FORGET SOMETHING!" I would say, "no, sweetie, it's wonderful, thank you so much," but it didn't matter.

I knew something was seriously wrong with her when we'd get into a minor disagreement and she would open hand slap herself across the face and scream "you idiot!" to herself. It was so sad. I would grab her and say "don't ever do that to yourself again, I love you. You are wonderful." It was heartbreaking. She used to pick sores onto her hands at times, and pull her hair out in places. She had gorgeous hair and skin, too. She was a beautiful gal who I really loved.

Then she'd go cold on me at other times and I could feel the chill. She didn't want to hold hands, eat together, anything. This, in hindsight, was the engulfment syndrome kicking in. At the time I had no idea what was going on, because literally nothing had changed in the relationship. I was completely clueless. At these times she had a take it or leave it attitude where she wasn't worried about losing me, because she had one foot out the door. She was almost trying to sabotage the relationship. She may make a snide comment to me here or there, but that was it. Nothing terrible, just being difficult and bitchy. It's a trip when I look back on it.

[Gemsforeyes]

I agree with BF, it likely does depend on the extent of co-morbidity.  Both my exH and my exBF had huge doses of Narc characteristics... exH, way more Narc than BPD (in hindsight, but confirmed by our former MC).

In my opinion, With those Narc traits, any remorse they may feel would have everything to do with what THEY’VE now got to do for themselves... NOT how anything has impacted or hurt you.  At all.  Narcissists feel no empathy, where pwBPD generally do.

And where things can get the most twisted is when a co-morbid attempts to return and you’ve finally found the strength to refuse.  If, big IF...your refusal actually comes as a shock to them... all of their self-serving, poor me “tools” I’ve talked about before come out and you COULD end up apologizing for everything cruel that THEY’VE done.  To you. 

Doesn’t mean you need to let them back in... but go ahead and apologize if that stops the RAGE.  This can work... “I’m truly sorry things didn’t work out for us.  I have issues I need to work on FOREVER, and I wish you the best.”  But the real fact is, you don’t owe this person a second to “explain” their cruelty.  Not one second.

You’ve got to pay close attention.  When a “partner” has this deeply hurt you, this deeply betrayed you, this deeply violated everything they KNEW about you... well sometimes you’ve got to realize you may not want to know this person any longer.  I vividly recall the day I received that feeling.  I hold tightly to it.

Warmly,
Gems

[cash05458]

Gem, I believe you are right about Narc. traits with my now ex...well, not that you are right about her, but I see that that is the case..otherwise, I can't understand what is going on and has gone on...the acts have been and are so entirely cruel...and I have explained to her what they have done to me...to no avail, she charges on...it is so entirely blatant and obvious. No matter what effects, she will do what she is now doing. As it's now just over three weeks of this, some of the "shock" is wearing off...not all of it of course...but some...I am not so stunned now as over this time...it started to clear a few days ago...still totally painful and overwhelming but not so "oh my god this can't be happening"...it's happened and happening. I need to take aboard that THIS is who she really is.I think I am living in my picture from before all of this. I want to stop that.

But you are right, I need to fully see what this person has done as it's so extreme and make sure if she should ever try to return that I will not listen. I need this person out of my life. I no longer see her the same as I did...I can't separate her from these acts. I didn't see her that way before. I now do. This IS who she is.
Actually, at this point, I can't see her returning anyhow...or if she does, it won't be a for a long time. I think I am just another in her long line of 5 husbands...and I have no idea what really occurred at the end with those...but would imagine likewise to this. Play the game for a set number of years...find something new then destroy the old and move to the new one and over evaluate and lovebomb the new one and repeat.

I have such a think head, am in so much pain that it makes it hard to FULLY get that in there...but I am working on it and hopefully getting there. This place, and you, have helped so much.  I really deeply appreciate everyone's responses... 

[once removed]

when my ex and i broke up, i wanted her back. i hung on for a few months.

the final straw, really, was when she stole from me. it turns out she had my debit card that i thought was missing. she used it for around 60 dollars. i despise thieves; she knew that.

when that happened, i cried like a baby.

part of it was just the pain. part of it was that i knew there was no turning back.

there are no loyalties in a divorce. one or both sides often do things that hurt the other.

is it the real them, vs the them youve been seeing all of that time? its probably more complicated than that.

was my ex a person that was capable of stealing from me, all of that time? she was. i had to grapple with that. she was also the lovely person id spent three years with, capable of some of the most tender of human kindnesses id ever seen.

remorse? i dont know. im sure she had some feelings of shame. im sure she also justified what she did. not unlike really, the way i thought during, and after the relationship.

in order to navigate this, you have to let go of both the good and the bad parts of your partner.

[cash05458]

Once, thank you...I am not sure at this moment how to let both the good and bad parts go? Perhaps its so fresh...I don't know...and I am curious as to what you mean  doing that will help navigate this...could you explain a bit more what you mean please?

[once removed]

what i mean is that i did so much focusing on either the good or the bad, in spite of myself.

in trying to get over her, id focus on the bad. the wounded part of me, and the part of me that wanted to be with her, would remember the good.

our exes were somewhere in the middle of the person who was so special, so unique, so wonderful, and so hateful, so toxic, such a pain in the ass. my ex was the person who stole from me. she was also the person who did so many wonderful things for so many people. she was the most thoughtful gift giver ive ever met.

and in letting go of that, i had to accept that our relationship was fundamentally broken. that there were parts of her i could not accept, and there were parts of me she could not accept. at the same time, there were parts of her id love to find in another partner. not to find her in someone else. but that certain qualities about her that were great, that simultaneously existed with qualities i couldnt accept, were findable in someone else.

a lot of what im speaking to is the latter stages of detaching. youll get there.

more relevant to you, is the idea that someone you have shared your life with and been so close to could do such hurtful things. and im here to tell you that thats very possible, regardless of psychopathology or traits of mental illness. divorce is often very ugly. the conflict isnt over, its manifesting, and it feels very justified.

getting back together would mean coming to terms with that, and how, and whether, its resolvable. letting go would mean coming to terms of the magnitude of it all, understanding that the relationship is fundamentally broken, and committing to grieving it.

[cash05458]

Thank you Once,

Yes, I am not yet detached...don't know if you read my original posts about what has actually occurred...but I won't go back over the details and bore everyone...I do know in my head that the things she has done have made this not fixable...but then I still long...which is confusing to me...I guess more than anything, that I have been so easily replaced...which makes me feel worthless...and that the man is simply thru facebook and on phone/cam and they have never met...even more so...she openly has told me she loves him and not me...and they met less than a month ago online...she has also openly told me she doesnt want to fix this...I dont know what else I need to hear at that point...so why still so upset and in so much pain like this?

Like yours and the theft, I know there is no way I would ever look at us again in same way no matter if we did ...it's not me being a hard a++...its more that I just know it can never be repaired...

[once removed]

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