We had our "final" talk today

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

well, for those who are listening...we had our "final" talk today...I told her I fully accepted we are over...she said she was relieved as she is so in love with her facebook friend of 4 weeks..who  knows, maybe it will work...its not my business now...but I accept we are really over. I need us to be over just like you do .


I asked to accept this as well and she accepted and wanted: we need to know this is done fore ever...we had our time and wish you well ,I really do...but I need you to never contact me about us or getting back together should feelings or situations change...I need to move on and I cant when I still have a small bit of hope...I want to live and not only survive but do better...please please never contact me again...


and she agreed...she seemed to mean it.

I feel sad now, but it's a different sorta sadness than the last three weeks and this is I hope my start to recover.

[cash05458]

well, for those who are listening...we had our "final" talk today...I told her I fully accepted we are over...she said she was relieved as she is so in love with her facebook friend of 4 weeks..who  knows, maybe it will work...its not my business now...but I accept we are really over. I need us to be over just like you do .


I asked to accept this as well and she accepted and wanted: we need to know this is done fore ever...we had our time and wish you well ,I really do...but I need you to never contact me about us or getting back together should feelings or situations change...I need to move on and I cant when I still have a small bit of hope...I want to live and not only survive but do better...please please never contact me again...


and she agreed...she seemed to mean it.

I feel sad now, but it's a different sorta sadness than the last three weeks and this is I hope my start to recover.

[cash05458]

and then it gets weirder...after our "adult " clousre talk and acceptance...and I was very honorable to her...a friend sends me a a link to a facebook post she wrote three days ago announcing to the world her new relationship and introducing to her (and my) friends and how she is moving to Cornwall England  to live foreever with her love and retire from the world until death...so much for adults and trying to end this with class...jesus christ...

[AnuDay]

I would say that you got out relatively cheap.  I say this with hesitation because obviously you are not yet over her, but I will tell you that she's playing a game, playing her friends, and playing you.  To the BPD life is a game and everyone in it ais their pawns.  She will just as easily and quickly use and destroy this new BF the same way that she did you...that is if he allows her.  Now, with you still being in love and damaged what I can tell you to do is wait until that relationship has faded and you can jump in and re-rescue her with a $500 plane ticket from England.  This will require you to totally go no contact though.  No contact with her friends either.  What I, and other people on this forum hope is that during this time of a no-contact that you develop some self-esteem and work on your codependency issues so that when she is ready to return to you that you will no longer be compatible or that you will have already moved on to a healthier relationship. Everything that glitters isn't gold.  Good luck to you.  It's a long journey.  Remember that you got out cheap this time.  You can read countless stories on this forum about how BPD's and Narcissists have destroyed people's lives.  Your recovery starts with awareness so you are truly in the very beginning stages.  I hope you keep making progress.  Find another hobby or interest to keep you occupied.

[cash05458]

AnuDay...thank you...well, it doesnt feel like I got off cheaply to be honest, but perhaps you are right...and at least there were no kids...she is literally on facebook love bombing this guy back and forth in public...pretty much every post...then crazy talk about moving to England foreever (he seems pretty deep into this as well)...I have to wonder what her friends think of all that...this is a stranger she began talking to on Dec. 5th...and they know we have been with one another for six years until this whole thing blew up...yes, I still have feelings but this is over for me...and as far as I am concerned if she gets stuck in england, she can swim home...I have never in my life seen a person completely change this way overnight...in all honesty this has been the worst three weeks of my life...there is just no way I can ever allow myself to deal with this person again...she tells me she has "never been as close to any man in her life and all men pale in comparison"...that includes me obviously...  this after telling me the very same thing for last six years...and my neighbors even knew she declared a new relationship with her new great love on facebook (as she has friended them all) before I knew and I dont think she was even going to tell me...

So, no, she can swim home...I have had enough and simply am tired of caring for her well being...been kicked so many times in the teeth these last three weeks...humiliated in public...everything...I want only now to care for myself and work on me...actually, if anything, I left our relationship feeling like a fool...

[AnuDay]

Look up some of the old posts from Turk. 
Look at my original post.
Your story is not unique. 
One day all of a sudden, a switch goes off and they change. 
Usually when you stop becoming a source of validation.  That is, when you can not fill their bottomless void anymore.   
Yes, some magical man or woman that they just met will be the love of their life...instantly.  I've seen it first hand, been through the public and facebook humiliation.  I unfriended a lot of people.  These are tough times for you, but you will see who truly has your back and you will come out on the other side stronger and ready to face the next chapter of your life. 

[cash05458]

AnuDay...thank you for that...I read your original post and the whole thread...the back and forth between you and Gems is incredible and so rich...funnily enough, Gems was the one also to reach out to me here upon my arrival...I am starting to see the links between myself and these stores and people...I accept that I am a codependent person...right now I don't know what to do about that exactly but to let it soak in...read about it yes, but beyond that, not sure of what exactly step to take to deal with that...perhaps it's ok that I just let it soak in as my reality...and I will naturally find a way...I don't know.

as for my ex, I do know this...I may love her...I may be in total pain...but I do know  I HAVE to excise her from my life and for good...not to be dramatic, but I need to not be with her even if that kills me...it won't I am sure...but even if...do you understand what I mean? I may have feelings, but I KNOW what is best for myself: to excise her from my world...no matter how terrible that feels...I need to override those feelings...those feelings will change into something else...but I need to do this...I don't want to "survive" with her...

[brighter future]

Cash,

Have you put any though into removing her from your social media? I kept my ex on my social media for about a month after the break up. She started flaunting her dates and stuff with the new guy about 2 1/2 weeks after our split on her social media. That was incredibly painful for me to look at, and I know it must be for you as well.

My therapist advised me to do this and said that me watching these things on social media was destroying me. So I deleted my ex few days later. Maybe a week after that, I deleted all of our pictures together as well. It’s kind of interesting because a mutual friend told me a short while ago that all of my photos with her and also the ones of our kids together on vacations are still up on her page. I have no idea why she leaves those there. I kept a couple of photos of our kids together on our vacations but that’s it.

[cash05458]

HI Brighter, well...the only thing we both have that we would both be on is facebook...but no, I am not friends with her there and she has her page locked private for friends only...so I can't see...others were the ones who told me what is going on on her page...her big announcement  via her new love stuff...they didn't do that to hurt...it was more contacting me  about "hey, what the heck is going on...just saw this and thought you two were a solid couple and for so long...why is she announcing some new relationship and are you ok?" They assumed of course I knew that had been done...I didn't. If it weren't so painful finding that out that way, it would be almost funny to be told of your long term's new relationship a few hours after you heard from her and she didn't bother to mention and that whole making it official thing from facebook...it isn't funny of course...it's pathetic...but it just goes in my notebook of who this person really is or more fully is I guess...that sorta helps now to be honest...to get a more clear picture of WHO she really is...rather than my fantasy of who she was...

So it wasn't meant in harm I Know...but still, I asked them not to update me on anything from here on out or what might be on her page...

[crushedagain]

It certainly doesn't seem like it right now, but in some respects I think you're lucky in that you know exactly what she did. With my quiet BPDexgf, she was so secretive that I never knew what was really going on. I had suspicions that she was cheating on me but there was never any proof or any way TO prove it. She kept me away from her friends, most of who were long distance of course. She was new to my area when we met through online dating.

She went out of town a handful of times by herself during our 2 years living together, and it's then that I think she may have been visiting old flings. Again, no proof. That lead to some self doubt like "what if I'm imagining this?" But there were little hints along the way. I've never before had a gf who goes away and doesn't even keep in touch, where the whole "vacation" is a mystery. I mean, I knew where she went, and that she was visiting old friends, but on a day to day basis she never kept in touch or told me what she was doing. Major red flag. I mean, this woman was living with me.

She'd be on the computer next to me at times, and I'd notice her shutting browsers really quick and looking over to see if I was looking at what she was doing. She was typing so I could tell she was communicating with people. I am a trusting person who gives the benefit of the doubt, so I did not question her.

All of my suspicions seemed to finally be supported when, in an angry fit one day, she admitted that the first time she moved out in an angry huff, 10 months or so after she had been living with me, she went to stay with her ex bf. That was the end, for me (when she admitted it, not when she first moved out). She cried and swore up and down that she did not sleep with him, that he let her use the extra room. She even ran to her car to show me a sleeping pad she had in her trunk. I didn't believe her and still don't. She had lied to me, telling me she stayed with her old female roommate she was living with when we met. Anyway, she left for good within weeks of the admission. I didn't want to have sex with her anymore. I think we may have once or twice, but I lost the attraction. I just couldn't even get into it. I was repulsed.

Her admission had me putting things together in my mind. The first vacation she went out of town on her own, I had remembered there was an old guy friend there. Yep, bet she was screwing him. The next vacation, same thing. She has a handful of cities she's lived in across the US in a short period of time prior to living with me. I bet she's a booty call for a bunch of guys. She's cute, so that's easy for her. But again, NO PROOF. I'd rather have known and have been able to 86 her, than have to wonder the entire time, and even now.

Sorry for the long-winded reply, but there's something to be said for knowing where things stand. I know I'd prefer it. Had I had solid evidence, it would have made it easier for me to cut the cord rather than have those doubts "maybe this is all in my head, and she isn't doing this."

[cash05458]

Crushed...thanks for that...yes, you are right...at least I know...I think the abuse they play around is always spining around the axis TRUST...we are trusting folk...no reason in a good thing to think otherwise...trust is a good and healthy thing...and then they use that trust and good nature as a weapon...that is what I am seeing now via mine...and I think this will resonate with most here: she totally didn't trust me tho I am a loyal person...never cheat...would never actually no matter how bad ( I would leave first)...constant accusations towards me...over nothing at all...I won't even go into it...but ...well, you know I think...

[crushedagain]

she totally didn't trust me tho I am a loyal person...never cheat...would never actually no matter how bad ( I would leave first)...constant accusations towards me...over nothing at all...I won't even go into it...but ...well, you know I think...

Yep, that's it in a nutshell. Mine was crazy jealous, too. Once there was a knock on the screen door during the summer, and it was a woman's voice saying "hello?" My gf flew up and went to the door and I could hear the woman asking for directions to somebody's house. She was on the wrong street. My gf said something to the effect of "get out of here and don't come back." It was extremely rude, uncalled for, and quite frankly embarrassing. I had arrived at the door and saw that the woman was young and attractive.

The woman of course hurried away as quick as possible, and I asked my gf "what in the world was that all about?" She immediately burst into tears and started asking who she was. I told her it was some random woman asking for directions. She was thinking it was somebody I knew from before her. I told her that was absolutely not the case, and that she can't be treating people like that at my house. It was nuts. She had a major meltdown over that.

[cash05458]

Crushed...I left facebook a few years ago b/c any female I spoke to...and it was always very straight, no lines crossed...but nice to talk to a woman and we discuss things about life in a normal way...and she would go crazy...accusing me of everything...I would leave my messenger open and say read what we spoke about...it's fine...please read...she wouldnt tho..." I don't want to hear what that b+itch has to say"

it got so bad I just killed the facebook page to solve the problem of her jealousy...it was not worth lisening to her stuff about me talking to anyone she could not control...and then she stays on fb...and meets her new love there...you almost have to laugh my friend...some of this stuff is so ridiculous...

[crushedagain]

The sooner you can laugh about it, the better. I know how painful it is at this time for you. Believe me. I was a wreck with extreme anxiety and couldn't sleep. I was having night terrors. It honestly may have taken a year off my life. It was that bad. The whole thing was a mind ****.

But you will get through it. I am living proof. I loved mine with all my heart, but I can honestly now say with certainty that I'd never let her back in. In fact, I'm not attracted to her anymore because of who she turned out to be and what she did to me.

[cash05458]

crushed...that is where I am...I will not take her back..she doesn't want via new lover...whatever...but she aint returning to my life...I love her, but at same time do not LIKE her anymore...if that makes sense...I have seen the other side now...she has her qualities...sure...but seeing this side as well...and that is the real her along with the good things...I am not interested via the whole picture...this sounds horrible, but I suddenly have started to realize how annoying she can be via every damn thing being about her...I dont need that...I never saw that before via constant dealing with crap...that and she isn't so bright or intelligent...I don't need smarts, but this is a really dim light ...strange that I can see that now...pull away the daily soap opera and you see how bad it was once out...and as a dumb male will say this as well..she wasn't a looker as they say...and yet I was mesmerized...

[AnuDay]

I accept that I am a codependent person...right now I don't know what to do about that exactly but to let it soak in...read about it yes, but beyond that, not sure of what exactly step to take to deal with that...perhaps it's ok that I just let it soak in as my reality...and I will naturally find a way...I don't know.

as for my ex, I do know this...I may love her...I may be in total pain...but I do know  I HAVE to excise her from my life and for good...not to be dramatic, but I need to not be with her even if that kills me...it won't I am sure...but even if...do you understand what I mean? I may have feelings, but I KNOW what is best for myself: to excise her from my world...no matter how terrible that feels...I need to override those feelings...those feelings will change into something else...but I need to do this...I don't want to "survive" with her...

Change within causes change without.  Dig deep inside yourself.  Look at your FOO.  Determine what it was inside of you that caused you to fall for this woman.  What was it that caused you to mistake the intense angry outbursts and obsessive compulsive control for love.  What was it that caused you to put on your Super Hero cape and go out and try to save this damsel in distress? Was it a super irrational mother or mother figure that you had growing up?  Was it the fact that you had to become a caretaker of an alcoholic father early in life?  These are the things that you will have to figure out.  You didn't become codependent in one week, one day, or one year.  It took a multitude of years and it will take a multitude of years to reverse the damage that has been done.  Every year it gets easier, but this is a long battle.  This forum will be a great resource for you.  Try "Tools ---> Setting Boundaries"  or "Tools ---> Book Reviews".  There's just so much information and stories on this site.  It's an invaluable resource in the healing journey.  Good luck

[cash05458]

AnuDay...the strange thing is I do know where this comes from...did 8 years of psychoanalysis...intense stuff...this was back in europe while doing my Phd...I know where it is from...my Mother and wont go into all that here...I knew my whole backstory and understood like a giant spider web...touch here, watch the reverberations way over there...and still, when I met this one...thought it was different...it wasn't...it was worse, much worse...

[brighter future]

Cash,

Sorry I had that mixed up about your social media situation. I had my ex on FB and Instagram. I removed her from both 5 or so weeks after the breakup, which helped my anxiety quite a bit. That way I didn't have to look at the dates, etc. she was planning with her rebound guy. I feel like a lot of that nonsense was posted for my benefit.

For a while, I had a family member of hers and also mutual friend of ours that would tell me what she was up to from time to time. I know that is triangulation, which is not healthy in the long run. At that time, the breakup was still fresh, and I was still sort of downplaying the mental health issues to a degree with my ex. Hearing the absurd, unhealthy nonsense about what she was up to from those people gave me a good dose of reality of how unhealthy she really is. It really gave me a wakeup call, which told me there is no way in hell I needed to go back to that.

A while back here in your discussion, we were talking about comorbidity. I forgot to mention that my ex-g/f is also ADHD (untreated), so that makes her even more impulsive in her behavior. Her father and her brother are also ADHD.  As I said in an  earlier post, my ex-wife is BPD, has eating disorders, and is also very narcissistic. My ex-wife didn't mess with multiple men and use sex to self-soothe like my ex-g/f did. She self-soothed with spending sprees and self-destructs with eating disorders (ex-g/f used to binge drink years ago to try and forget the pain in her life). I didn't know that eating disorders were considered an addiction until I attended a family therapy weekend with my ex-wife at the inpatient hospital she was staying at prior to our divorce. My child shared with me last week that my ex-wife was taken in an ambulance recently for throwing up blood. This was right before she went away to an inpatient hospital 2.5 months ago. Most likely this is a side affect from her many years of purging. I don't think she will ever be well or any treatment program will help her at this point.

[cash05458]

Brighter...no worries at all via social media thing...your story sounds terrible my friend and I am so sorry...I really am...none of us should be going thru these things...but the fact is we are...

I don't know quite why, but I am having the toughest of day here...I won't be taking her back even if offered...and that offer isnt even there...but feel so weak and vulnerable...found myself writing a long email to her to ask her to think carefully as to what she is doing  and that we have so much to lose if she is wrong...thankfully I caught myself and deleted it...did not send...I guess I se that I am going to have these days and simply try to override and tell myself it is a mood...and to not act...

[AnuDay]

Brighter...no worries at all via social media thing...your story sounds terrible my friend and I am so sorry...I really am...none of us should be going thru these things...but the fact is we are...

I don't know quite why, but I am having the toughest of day here...I won't be taking her back even if offered...and that offer isnt even there...but feel so weak and vulnerable...found myself writing a long email to her to ask her to think carefully as to what she is doing  and that we have so much to lose if she is wrong...thankfully I caught myself and deleted it...did not send...I guess I se that I am going to have these days and simply try to override and tell myself it is a mood...and to not act...

This is a very good exercise.  Typing and deleting.  Preparing to send emails and never hitting "Send".  Your brain does not know the difference between emails that were sent and weren't sent.  Write letters and throw them away or delete them.  This is all part of the healing. 

[cash05458]

thank you AnuDay...yes, it helped to write everything out...everything going thru head and emotions...it was very long...really asking her to think this thru and if she is  wrong, ruin both of our lives...etc etc...still trying to save her and most of all self I guess

so over dramatic really...

at end...left there for a while...then realized I did not want to send as afraid of any repercussions from her or a response... but mostly self as I thought, now you really aren't even on own side...and I want to be on my own side...feel the need to override those emotions when it comes to the "loss"...I need to do that before I act...there has to be some point to this suffering...

[brighter future]

Cash,

Typing an email or writing a letter to her (and not sending) is a good form of therapy. Good for you.  I did that about 2 months after the split with my ex-g/f. My therapist suggested that I draft an email then asked me to save it in the drafts folder in my email account. She also asked that I print out a copy of what I drafted so we could go over it together in one of our sessions.

In the two months following me drafting the letter, I had a strong desire to mail it to my ex. Today I have no desire whatsoever to send it to her. Simply putting all of those thoughts down on paper without sending it to to my ex is now good enough for me. The letter still sits in my drafts folder, while the hard copy is in the folder at my therapist's office. My therapist said what I decided to ultimately do with the letter was up to me (I believe her recommendation was to not send it). I'm thinking at some point, I may ask her for the hard copy back so I can burn it outside here at home. The electronic copy can be deleted with the click of a mouse.

[cash05458]

Brighter...yes...I agree...something inside me today no matter how bad today was...said Don't send...

Gems mentioned to me earlier about my not letting her return here if she had this ongoing thing with facebook man and wanted to continue it here in our house...I said you cannot do that...and that showed I had some defense left...I would like to think so...I am trying to keep it together for self...exercising, not drinking...so I am hoping I have more things to my side and healing than I am aware of at the moment...I hope so...it is coming up on a month now this week...this has been the most intense month of my life...

[AnuDay]

Every day you go with no contact you are building emotional muscle.  This is not an easy process.  My ex called me to come back a month or two later and I came back (there were kids involved).  I was treated pretty poorly, but I had built enough emotional muscle to deal with it.  I actually thought I could still rescue her from her new bf.  The last straw for me was when I actually saw her and her new bf together.  I absolutely knew I couldn't keep coming back and being the man on the side.  I at least had a chance to build up that much dignity for myself in the month or so of "No Contact".
I have written a few letters and texts myself and deleted them.  I am also guilty of sending some of those emails.  The responses that I got back when my ex realized how emotionally beaten I was were brutal.  That taught me to never ever send another email or letter.  It was hard for me because she was pretty beautiful.  I learned that the insides did not match the outside.  Us men are so easily confused by beauty.  We equate it with so many great internal qualities that oftentimes are not there.  Take it one day at a time.  When you hit your one month mark of no contact congratulate yourself and treat yourself.     

[cash05458]

thank you for the thoughts AnuDay...I will take these aboard..altho I am NC with her...I still get I would guess an email a day...I don't respond or try not to...her's consist of "I hope you are going to be ok and get thru this...I want to see you happy" type...the few times I did respond I was sorry I did...as then I would get another back saying"just want to be honest, but he is the most special man I have ever met in my life and we are planning this and this when I go to live with him in England etc" type...stuff so weirdly specific...like " there is a great spice store near his house...I can't wait to buy in small quantities for freshness with him...we can talk about these things for hours on phone"...it's very bizarre...and which I just dont want to hear...

[cash05458]

I have found the email writing stuff, then not sending to be pretty helpful...I can express things vi ahow I see or they affected me...take time and look over them...even express anger...and also notice myself giving advice to her, pointing out what she is doing and the parallels with our beginnings (the love bombing..in the facebook posts of hers I did see that the neighbor showed me...I saw a whole world she was contructing in public...the two of them even picking out their fave little cosy cafe in the town sh ehas never been to, discussing the funny man in the spice shop she will be going to and how they shall walk hand in hand everyday to the shop and only pick up small quantities so the spices are always fresh for that evenings meal she will prepare for him...it's all very bizarre...I mean they have never met and began talking a month ago now...) trying to point out how she is bringing baggage into her new thing, taht she needs to look back over us and heal and learn...

In other words, I quickly found myself trying to play her therapist yet again...to steer her towards "feeling ok" or even back to me...that gave me some insight into just how 'Natural " this has become to me...so yes, the letters have helped, both in the anger, hurt...and then the insights into my own  drives...it's fine to say all those things to myself, but there is no reason to express them to her...that working things out here for myself will not, and shall not be done, thru her or being understood by her or any of that...I don't want to turn to her to be the understanding one about my pain...she can't help me and I can't help her...it's just me...and yeah, it felt good to deal with those things and simply hit, delete...

[Gemsforeyes]

Hey Cash-

This pain is so fresh for you.  Allow yourself those bad days, but as Anuday says... you ARE building emotional muscle with each day of NC.  Allow that, too.

I began to write pretty early in my relationship with the exBPD/NPD BF (just realized I’m nearly 11 months OUT!).  I was so confused by his behavior.  He had broken up with me numerous times, then begged forgiveness and slinked back in.  I was a little slow on the uptake.  For 6.5 years. 

I’d even write in my “journal”, which was the Notes thing on my iPad when he was asleep in the bedroom.  The really good things about having all of that now is that there was NEVER a danger of sending those things in error, or on impulse; and I can REALLY see where *I* was / where I am.

The one and only time I ever sent an email to him after one breakup, he told me he “showed it to everyone”.  And I thought... “oh my GOD!  I would have NEVER shown that to ANYONE!  He clearly did not understand a word of it!”  That was the day I realized he wasn’t very bright.  Or he was lying as usual.  Ironically the last line in that email was... “and you, my former love will understand none of this”.

Cash -  when someone hurts you this deeply, they’ve absolutely no interest in hearing news about it.  At all.  That my friend is the sad, hard truth.

I really don’t get her daily self-serving emails to you.  That’s pretty cruel and disgusting to my way of thinking.  Is there any way you can report her email address as SPAM and stop that altogether?  That’s truly getting to the point of harassment.  I’m sorry...

I recall she may have left a pet or two in your home, but she clearly doesn’t care about that either.  In some areas, abandoned pets legally become the keepers’.  I experienced that situation with two Dalmatian puppies i found in California.

I guess I’m kind of pissy today?  Oops!

Your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gems

[cash05458]

Gems, a note from you is warmly welcome. Thank you...no worries about being "pissy"...

Yes, I think you are right, she doesn't want to hear about this...nor do I want to communicate it to her...I am sure this is common from what I have read here but in her mind she has warped every single thing about our past relationship into a monstrosity...all my fault of course...I know she needs to do that to justify her new thing and actions. She mentioned to a a few co friends about hers and my 6 years together was "entirely loveless"...they mentioned to me as they had been around us and found her statement just utter bulls++t...

And although I should not have read, in a strange way, seeing her facebook posts helped me...like, wow...ok, this is so far beyond having anything much to do with me or my control...this person is so deep into fantasy...it would be one thing to say "moving to england"...its another to be chatting publicly about how she can't wait to become friends and can already imagine that with crazy eddy the retired  coalminer who sits on the town square stoop with his one eyed dog named Major and she is dressed in a gingham dress carrying a wicker basket of freshly cut flowers, hoping it doesnt rain...it is bizzaro land stuff...they are game playing this out hardcore...he as well...but in an odd way, as I said, it helps...like, whew, this is so outta my reach...

Yes, she did leave pets here...she is huge into cats...I had two when she came...she arrived with her own two, then took in 3 others...she took one...I have been left with six...she always talked about how they were our "family"...ok, well she left me with six and I asked her via email to please think about us doing something about the cats...she needs to take her original still here and please one other...I can handle 4...there is no hurry on this and I am taking good care...to which she said "I dont think I will be able to take any cats to england...so just drop them at off at a shelter ok?..."

really? family? cat lover? just incredible...set the house on fire with me in it and all the "family"...and you got yours and adios...it's insane and incredible...

I have her blocked btw on email...but it's gmail...so it just goes into another folder...but it's hard not to read to be honest but I can control it a bit more...

[Gemsforeyes]

Jeeez, Cash.  From the sounds of it she seems to be playing this thing out on her public screen larger than most teeny boppers would.  Pretty astounding for a 60-year old... for a 16-year old...  I believe you said she has adult kids?  They must be beside themselves.

But it just CANNOT be your worry.  Not what happens if and when it crashes and she desperately needs a place to land.  I’m convinced she will.  She’s going to likely need “saving, RESCUING”.  Big time.  Much much sooner than you may think.  She is building this fantasy of comfy dresses and fresh flowers and idle fascinating interaction with local characters... but reality?  I don’t believe that will match her daydreaming in the light of day.

And the FBfella will be BLAMED for that while she’s there.  And then YOU will be blamed for MAKING her leave...not letting her come home.  Prepare yourself for the proverbial s*&t to hit the international fan.  Or perhaps I’m wrong... and she’ll just adore the London fog and spring will come early when she arrives.  And she’ll be relaxed when she sees him surfing FB and it’s not HER he’s looking at...

And having to whisper after 8PM so as not to awaken the elder ladies.  And making cream of wheat... you get the picture.  I’m sure she’s willing to sacrifice a LOT to care for others.  Isn’t that her pattern?  Ha.

Please, my friend... for your own future and wellbeing, let’s work on your “rescuing” tendencies asap.  I have them, too.  I’ve stepped way back from this lifelong dilemma.  I think I told you I’m 63.  My mother’s “pet name” for me used to be “the happy idiot”.  How ‘bout that?  I always went down with a smile and a laugh.  I’m actually laughing at myself now!  My mother is the polar opposite of me... does nothing for no ONE (grammar, I know).  But with the pandemic, she calls me her “lifeline”.  I am my dad’s girl... in every way.

So in your heart of hearts, Cash.  Where are you today?  In all of your honesty, where do you think you are?  I know we can say “I NEED to stand my ground, say NO, be firm”... but then there’s that voice, that ache... we’ve got to work on silencing that “voice”.  Healing the ache takes longer.

Sorry so long and rambling.  I think I’m actually kind of angry at someone.  Looks like it’s coming out here.  Sorry.

And I’m glad to know your co-friends see through her BS talk about your relationship.  That’s all on her.  Always will be.

Your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gems

[cash05458]

Gems, thank you for that...it made me chuckle here as well...

Well, I don't plan to be there to rescue...I know that is easy to say...but I don't...I will admit there is still that "voice" inside...I certainly have not eradicated it...I can't lie to myself...but it is much more silent than it was ten days ago or so...maybe not more silent, but not as loud...and I think I am putting together a more real picture of who this person was/is...now with time and her not here...I may still be "in love " with her is some ways...but I don't "LIKE" the person I am now seeing and realizing who she actually is...does that make sense?

I will give an example of things that come thru even without my thinking hard about stuff...for instance, today realized that in this now month she left...in all her emails, the few calls we have had...not ONCE has she even asked a single time how her "family" here is...the 6 cats and dog she adored and continually talked about while we shared our house...not a single time. I know that seems like a small thing...but it says something...let alone all the horrible actions she has actually undertaken...I am really starting to see who she actually is...this wasnt just a screw up or mistake on her part...it is who she actually is...and again, I don't even like that person. I am going keep working on killing that "voice" you speak of...and her facebook childish antics are helping with that as well...I want that voice gone eventually...

I know for sure, even tho I am in pain, if she called up, said she had been wrong and could she drive up to see me to discuss...I know for sure I would say NO...I do know that...I realize I am still in  vulnerable state...but I would and could now say NOPE...but I realize that is still risky for me and that the voice is still in there...I want it out Gems...and I agree...the likelihood that she is going to go down in flames in England is very high...she almost reminds me of an actress finishing one role, and moving on to the next...the series filming closed set here at our house, now it's on to her next series, "Cosy in Cornwall"...

One good satisfaction I had today was grabbing a big garbage bag and collecting her remaining shoes...must have been 20 pairs...also a few days ago, had cleaned out the tea shelf...I like tea...just normal earl grey ...found 40 or so of her teas...all totally, to me , undrinkable and for every ailment and anxiety under the sun and exotic and very self focused on her precious moods and feelings...but not one for me...and thought to myself about her accusations that everything in this house was set up for ME, not her...small things, but they give me more insight and straighten me...

Oh Gem's you asked about kids...she has one adult daughter, 23...frankly, from what I have heard and seen the daughter is totally supporting her in all of this...egging her on even...the daughter to be honest has many similar traits to her...not very stable herself...I believe she thinks this whole thing is funny actually... 

[B53]

Cash,
With each week that goes by, I see you getting stronger. The people on this site are awesome and your willingness to be so open and real, have helped others that may be going through similar circumstances and aren’t ready to voice their pain. It is nice to see you lay the blame where it belongs. It’s hard to imagine that someone could be that cruel.
B53

[cash05458]

B53, deep deep thanks for saying that ...I feel like I am working in the dark here (not here, this place and the people have been wonderful) ...trying but not sure how well I am doing...but trying to be honest with self...I know I am failing some at that as well but trying not to beat myself up as I know I had a lot of stuff dumped on me and most would have a hard time coping as I have...but thank you so much for saying that to me...it made my night...motivates me to get off my butt now and go hit my smart bike trainer (zwift) for a good hour of sweating...thank you B53!

[cash05458]

"Prepare yourself for the proverbial s*&t to hit the international fan."

Thanks for that Gems...I needed a good laugh...and humor helps take a little distance certainly...so thanks...very good... 

[cash05458]

Everyone, I guess the thing I am having trouble with, and I don't necessarily mean this from a jealous side only, but more deeply: to use an analogy, it is as if there was this glass filled with liquid...those were her feelings about us and me...and in the blink of an eye, that glass was decanted into another glass that was her and him...just automatic, and again, in the blink of an eye..Now, he  and they is/are everything...

I know this is a clunky, terrible analogy...

Rather, than say meeting someone and then getting to know slowly and it develops...it just simply goes from me and us, straight into a heavy love thing with him and her...as if her love simply transferred energy to another outlet at the click of the fingers...

That is something that I am thinking about, hurting about...and I am seeing the exact same beginning as we had play out, only with another...the total overevaluation, the love bombing, the total belief...as if she is simply under a spell...and it is not that I want to stop her at this point...but that leaves me feeling...well, not sure how that leaves me feeling exactly...

I of course don't work that way...and not judging morally...but I don't...when something ends, I can't think of another for quite a while ...that sort of in the blink of an eye and energy transference isn't possible with me. I know that is a good thing of course for myself...but still, it leaves me feeling confused about even what our reality was... I guess that it is that that idealized version of me she gave me is breaking down entirely when I see it transferred so quickly onto another...now he is the idealized one...and I am nothing in her eyes...perhaps that is a good thing that that is breaking down and that I face the truth of that..but god, it is painful...

[grumpydonut]

Cash, not the worst analogy I've read  

I'm sorry if this comes across as condescending (I have no idea what level of knowledge you have on BPD), but I'll try my best to explain - in my opinion - what you are seeing.

BPD is an attachment disorder, where a person suffering from said disorder feels they cannot survive on their own. They rely on an attachment to give them a sense of self, and their attachment is based completely on need and fantasy.

The reason she can instantly take her water full of emotions and put them into a new glass so quickly is because their attachment is shallow and based on fantasy. In her mind, the new person is a saviour (a good parent) - the one to deliver her from her emotional turmoil and undo her childhood trauma - while you are seen as the oppressor and cause of her emotional turmoil (you are her bad parent). When that fantasy fades, she may return to you to provide the fantasy (a reunion fantasy is a powerful emotional drug). Rinse, repeat. BPDs don't fall in love with who we are, but who they want us to be. Then reality appears (you and I aren't perfect people who can deliver them from emptiness and fear) and they find someone else to hide from their core wounds.

The reason it's difficult for you to comprehend is, likely, because you're healthy and  thus need time to recover from a relationship. BPDs do not need to recover, as recovery would require introspection and loneliness, and that is death to a BPD. Instead, they jump from relationship to relationship, telling themselves that the next attachment will be the one to make everything "right" in the world, only to follow the same pattern of failure and destruction.

[cash05458]

Grouchy...no, not condescending at all and thank you...yes, have been reading much much here...but that was a clear and succinct explanation and helps so much...might print out and put on fridge...(just kidding)...but great, thank you...

I am new here and have gotten noticed my topic is closed as it has hit limit...and this is archived I guess..could anyone advise proper protocol on if I wish to continue to speak with others here and also express things? simply leave this here? Is that the normal manner? I hope I havent posted too much adn that might be the reason they closed thread...

[cash05458]

oops...did not mean to start a new thread...not even sure how that happened...could anyone advise? Really want to follow protocol here and as as what is proper...thank you...

[Gemsforeyes]

You’re fine Cash.  The mods needed to split the thread because it got so long.  You can look at your original thread and see the little lock symbol. That tells you.  But you can continue to discuss as you wish!

Warmly,
Gems

[cash05458]

Thanks Gems... I saw the lock and prolly triggered abandonment issues yet again...joking of course...but new here...

wondering if me understanding this more...leads to me wanting to to "explain" to her what is maybe going on with her...it's there, as a last "chance" to save (for myself and weakness...)

That is wrong as I don't need to explain anything to her...she is going to do what she is going to do no matter the insight suggested...there is my hero thing popping out in a way to save myself from dealing with the harsh reality ...so will not do that...I will not be doing that.

Your talk of that "voice"...hit me...in a good way of course Gems...it may still be there and be less...but realize for now, I need to override it...almost deal with it like is some "other" if that makes sense...i.e. not act or respond...and trust via the long term that that voice will quiet down or even go away and I get my own feedback o fself via all this...the quiet...that I can have moods or impulses and they are ok and part of this and god knows, I have taken some heavy heavy shots to self here at end via her things...but not to listen or how shall I say? maybe make executive decisions for self to ignore... override...and work on self and give self chance to understand and not simply respond to moods or that voice...none of that prolly makes any sense and comes off like inner babble maybe...but I do know I want something DIFFERENT with myself and these dynamics...and I realize I cant click my fingers and make it that way...but I want, I desire that...me trying to take care of her, or US...had been terrible for me...it bled me out and that isnt even her fault...it was our dynamic...and she has found a new one to repeat her pain and loss...a new hero...it was my not looking at my own self for so long and going into my hero stuff and repetitions...I want to take care of me...I want something other than this...

[cash05458]

thoughts to self here for anyone...trying to process...am processing actually I hope...

let it go down...let it go down in flames if need be...it is needed...but let it go down...'Be" in flames if you can...don't try to fix, dont try to give advice to the other even tho you do see the real "truth" that is playing out into endless repetition and failure for all involved...you can be intelligent and know everything going on, every angle and how it will play out...but "knowing" doesn't change anything...knowing can get in the way of things and leads sometimes to more failures as it is control...knowing isn't understanding sometimes via the real things...you know you are extremely intelligent and everyone has told you that your whole life...but that hasn't gotten you anywhere in the important things to you...but that that  that is going down now via her isn't your business...nor should it have been ever...that it was, led to this...you didn't help via your own dynamics... as they were inherently faulty as well from your own past...and when it finally has been burned down entirely on every level for self...don't try to build anything like a little beautiful  sculpture from those embers, even in memory...brush the embers away and move forward or even backwards if need be...but move and change and deal and be in flames...

[crushedagain]

BPDs don't fall in love with who we are, but who they want us to be. Then reality appears (you and I aren't perfect people who can deliver them from emptiness and fear) and they find someone else to hide from their core wounds.

This is a very succinct way to put it, and something I'd like to say to my BPDexgf if she ever tried to recycle me again (doubtful). I think there could be no greater satisfaction and closure than telling her this:

"You never loved me, you loved the idea of what you thought I could provide you to help you to escape your emptiness. Never once were my needs even so much as a thought to you. It was ALL ABOUT YOU. You consumed everything you could from me and then you discarded me like a used paper plate. It's goodbye forever from me, because you are not a person who offers me anything. When I think of the kind of woman I am looking for, you are at the bottom of the list."

That would feel amazing.

[cash05458]

Crushed...I agree...not that it even needs to be said as it brings up more crap...maybe we need to say that to self for now...and then maybe later when they try to return?  But I for one am so exhausted and tired of trying to understand their side...that side has been a dead end (for me)...a  cul de sac that cirles back to the same old stuff...us being obsessed with them...its time now and enough I hope...this will sound harsh, but F++k them and their "feelings"...we have feelings as well and at a certain angle for us, those are more important...I'm really done with being a good guy and mr. understanding...with her...I can be a good guy in right thing...or alone...actually I was a good guy while alone..and have been many times for years...but I am tired of being the nice guy...period...I will be a nice guy when it is warranted and real ...and that will be up to her...not just me...it will be because she needs  that in a real way and not from her pain...I am sick now from the pain of the last...and tired and hopefully done... sure, I had my hand in it...and my own failures via self...but f===k it...I am really done with undertaking the other for now...

[crushedagain]

Yeah, no more Mr. Nice Guy from me either. During the 2 years she lived with me I never once confronted her about her issues. Only once during one of her meltdowns did I suggest going to therapy. I essentially "went with it," meaning I just tried to navigate the thing and accept she had flaws and was an overly emotional person.

It's good she has not contacted me or run into me, because it's a different man she'd get now. The gloves are off, so to speak, and I don't hold a high opinion of her. I was always kind, compassionate and caring. That ship sailed. I'd look at her with pity and a small dose of contempt. If there was any person in the world I'd like to, just once, make a snide comment to, it's her. It probably sounds petty, but I am just being honest.

[cash05458]

Crushed...I dont think there is anything petty at all about speaking your mind...and when done...defending self and hurt and letting them know...PLEASE READ it...why not...we took enough...I am done with understanding the other side...I am not interested in that ...if I did feel that way I would want her back...I don't...you don't either...you can only justify so much via the giving one...or the I am here for you thing...it becomes self  abuse to be too kind... mine wrote me tonight asking how I am...I told her: PLEASE READ you, I dont need this and your bs...here is what I think...you are going to fail yet again...that is your game...via us, I won't...I am tired of everything about your problems...I have my own and via you and us, I didn't do well...it didnt help you at all...and it PLEASE READed me up...I lost myself...you are lost and keep going if that is your only move...perhaps that is the only thing you can do...but I am done...and I am tired of being the bad guy, hen i am not...period...enough of this PLEASE READ...take it to another and she has...

[cash05458]

sorry for the garbled note...me speaking aloud to her in my head etc...apologies...

[brighter future]

Cash,

I'm glad to hear that you stood up to her and all of that nonsense. It's too bad that it had to come to that, but a person can only take so much abuse. Even after that, I bet you haven't heard the last from her.

I really liked the reply that grumpydonut wrote you yesterday. Even though my breakup occurred 8.5 months ago, reading posts like that helps put things into perspective and keeps me on track. I also liked your statement/analogy  about how these people can move on immediately at the end of a relationship with someone new like nothing ever happened. When I asked my ex how she could do that after telling me I was the "man of her dreams", "the best man I've ever dated", etc. she told me "I don't know. I can't answer that. I don't have the energy for any questions. I've got nothing left to say." BPD behavior is so bizarre. For instance, the day after our split, she went into a lengthy public tirade on Facebook about her ex-husband that she divorced just over a year earlier. I found it odd that her anger was directed towards him that day when she and I had broken up the day before. Her ex-husband remarried a few months ago. A mutual friend told me that my ex has become Facebook friends with her ex-husband's new wife. The mutual friend told me that my ex has been posting rude and obnoxious things about her ex-husband on the new wife's page. How disrespectful and what terrible boundaries. What the h#ll?

Part of me really wanted to let her have it much like you did with your ex because her responses to me were so cold and showed me that she ultimately didn't give a PLEASE READ about my feelings. The only reason I didn't do that is because her parents have been neighbors and friends of mine for over 20 years. I didn't want any trouble with them. A few days after our breakup, her mother told me "__________ wouldn't have survived these last couple of years with out you. Her dad and I hoped that you two could work things out." Now more than likely, she's sucking the life out of this other guy. 

[cash05458]

Brighter...thanks...yes, I too found Grumpy's post so helpful...just very precise and spot on.

Well, no matter my words to her, I know they won't have any effect...it really is like she is under a spell...just in one ear and out the proverbial other...in fact, got an email from her this morning "hope you are doing ok"...ect...Gems is right: they don't want to hear what they have done to us and the repercussions of their acts...they don't want to hear about the pain they caused.

Today marks one month from the time she took off...it's been quite a month I have to say...I think back to right after she roared out of here and  then noticing on the computer a tab left there..."a virtual tour of cornwall"...

[brighter future]

Well, no matter my words to her, I know they won't have any effect...it really is like she is under a spell...just in one ear and out the proverbial other...in fact, got an email from her this morning "hope you are doing ok"...ect...Gems is right: they don't want to hear what they have done to us and the repercussions of their acts...they don't want to hear about the pain they caused.

It's sad, but they don't have the emotional capacity to care about anyone but themselves. Isn't it funny though how they want to stay in touch after wreaking all of this havoc on us?  Keeping us on the hook just gives them another attachment/host if we allow it. Attachments can be anyone: a spouse, significant other, family member, a child, neighbor,  and even health care providers and and therapists. Both my ex-wife and ex-g/f were (and still are) obsessed with having more children even though they don't have the mental capacity or financial ability to take care of any additional children. I recall something my ex-wife said to me shortly before we separated. She was laying in a hospital bed with a feeding tube down her throat emaciated from Anorexia and Bulimia. Our child was barely one year old at the time. My ex-wife said to me, "I want to start having more children as soon as possible." Her healthcare providers told me at that time that if she couldn't get her illness under control that "this will kill her". As I told you the other day, my daughter said my ex-wife was throwing up blood a few months ago, no doubt from all the years of the eating disorder and abusing her body. It's just total madness.

Like another member here told me last year, "BDP's love attachments. The more the merrier, and all are invited to play."  My ex-g/f asked if we could be friends and stay in touch after she unleashed all of her BS on me. I never even acknowledged that when she said it. A month later is when I went NC, then she started contacting me 4.5 months later. They just don't get it.

[cash05458]

Brighter, I am sorry to hear about the eating disorder..that is terrible and must have made it much harder on you to split with her. I can imagine the protective part of you wanted to do anything to save her...I would think the protective part of you would be very ramped up...what strength you  showed in not allowing that to bring her back into your life. I really admire that.

I get frightened that even now, after all she has done, and it was extreme...I find the feeling floating thru me: maybe just write her and try to talk...try to work this out...I miss her very much.

But I don't allow myself and won't...and I try not to beat myself up for  having those thoughts once in a bit and am just trying to see it as part of the process I must go through...I do miss her I am ashamed to say...but I don't want her back...and I know I have to hold to that no matter what...otherwise I will never heal or change for myself...if I took her back I would be agreeing to endless repetitions on both our parts...   

[cash05458]

ack...I can't tell you how much I hate facebook...and what she is doing there...I live in a very small town in Vermont...a neighbor just drove me down to our little grocery store to pick up some items...now my ex was a school teacher here in town and everyone knows her and me...it's a small place...and I swear she has a half of the town as friends on facebook...

Anyhow, in the store three separate people came up to me (all women, which was interesting in their responses...) "Christ, are you ok? What on earth is going on...I have been thinking about you...it is just incredible what she is doing on facebook...England? Please...she has obviously snapped and had a mental breakdown...she has completely lost her mind... "

All three said around this same thing more or less...also interesting, all three of these women are very kind souls...but tough country folk...and all three basically told me that they hoped I would never let her return and to move on...and that they would never give her the time of day if she did return or respond to anything she says again to them on facebook... two actually defriended her already they told me...they were scathing...

Not only did she figuratively set me and our house on fire and take off...it seems like she burned down any chance of being accepted back here by many in our little village...

As I have not been out hardly at all...I have to admit I liked the backup I received in a manner of sorts...or hearing their impressions...

That said, that they even all know because she is playing this out in front of everyone really gets to me...I would never thrash these sorta things out in public...about us or if I had a new relationship...never...I guess it's just another instance of her exploding boundaries...

[grumpydonut]

"You never loved me, you loved the idea of what you thought I could provide you to help you to escape your emptiness. Never once were my needs even so much as a thought to you. It was ALL ABOUT YOU. You consumed everything you could from me and then you discarded me like a used paper plate. It's goodbye forever from me, because you are not a person who offers me anything. When I think of the kind of woman I am looking for, you are at the bottom of the list."

Crushed,

From what I have read, that would play into the disorder and only make her feel more justified in everything she has done - it allows you to be the oppressor, making her the victim. You're being mean to "poor old" her because you're a bad man.

Don't get me wrong, I have had similar fantasies should my ex return to me, but if she ever does I'm going to react in opposite fashion.

If they come back, and we act nicely and politely turn them down / create a boundary, their disorder must wrestle with the fact that they are the problem. They can't feel like a victim if you don't victimise them, and thus they feel shame and guilt at what your goodness to someone who treated them so poorly shows THEM to be.

[grumpydonut]

Not only did she figuratively set me and our house on fire and take off...it seems like she burned down any chance of being accepted back here by many in our little village...

Cash, you have just summarised the tragedy that is BPD. Wanting to be loved and accepted, only to have their instability cause them to be hated and abandoned.

[cash05458]

Grumpy, thanks...Yes, she loved our little town and the folks here...they really accepted her when she arrived 6 years ago...everyone adored her as a local teacher...it was surprising to hear how scathing these women were over her facebook stuff and the whole moving to england stuff and all of her behaviors she herself put right out on facebook for all to see...and the thing  is, I would never have told any of these folks about this stuff...I am just not like that...these are private things between a couple...but as she did it so publicly on facebook they knew it all and made their judgements...that was entirely her own doing...she won't be coming back...but lets say she wanted to...she even burned those kinda of small town bridges she seemed to cherish so much...it almost seems like she did it purposefully...

[cash05458]

I posted this on another page but wanted it here just to keep it a little more confined...

Grumpy, thank you...

Yes, even the tone of her voice changed I noticed...and it wasn't like I had even mentioned going to england or brought it up...it just came out of her...and then "you will never stop me" etc...I merely said, I am not trying to stop you...you have to do what you want...but you have to also realize your actions will have serious repercussions via our relationship"...to which she responded the same thing as above...more forcefully... it was almost as if she were having a conversation with some other...again, I had the feeling she was speaking to me like a Father as the angry rebellious teen... as if "you can never stop me from seeing him daddy..." etc...

And this fits. the very start of this whole recent depression began about 3 months ago...her older cousin died suddenly...just dropped dead of a heart attack...had been seemingly healthy...but this was not just any cousin...the was a man who knew her father when he was young and was like a brother to him, adored her father (who died when she was 5 and then Mom ran off and disappeared to be a junkie and she was put in an orphanage)...so this cousin had in real life become like a father surrogate...he was her last and only remaining tie to her long dead father... she changed right at that moment...even the look in her eyes...adn this cousin did in fact act like a father to her, helping her very greatly at various times in her life, even as an adult...they were very very close...

And then three weeks later, the work conflict occurred...which I have described...charging her school publicly on facebook about covid things...it was terrible...writing privately to parents, getting fired and then a no trespassing notice arrived via the police from her former school...and that fits as well, she always described her work mates as "family" and behaved that way...and she treated the Directors especially like parent figures...even tho they were younger than she...and that become a huge betrayal to her...one going far beyond losing a job...

And then of course, three weeks after that and her leaving me for this other and completely destroying everything and me in her wake...even abandoning her own cats here as well (a small thing...but again, she described them as "family")...likewise, destroying her small community bonds she had here which she described as "family" as well.

The "split"...is me becoming the "bad father" and the new man as being the Good one, the Savoir for a new life and redemption...of course, that is all fantasy...but it explains to me how this all took place, literally, "in the blink of an eye"...

It is all starting to make much more sense to me now...the Cousin's sudden death was the trigger...and not only is this a reaction to father issues...I also think there is something going on via her Mother, who ran off and abandoned her...much as she is now abandoning everything from her past life here...

I wonder if any of this insight would ever be of use to a BDP going thru this at the time...or even later...if that would even be possible for them to take in while it is occurring or if the fantasy stemming from the original trauma has taken such strong hold that they MUST stay under it's spell and merely let it play out til its inevitable ending...that leaves out my drive that providing such insight would just be another part of my own drive to save..to be the one who provides the guiding insight...that is my pattern I know...

[brighter future]

I get frightened that even now, after all she has done, and it was extreme...I find the feeling floating thru me: maybe just write her and try to talk...try to work this out...I miss her very much.

But I don't allow myself and won't...and I try not to beat myself up for  having those thoughts once in a bit and am just trying to see it as part of the process I must go through...I do miss her I am ashamed to say...but I don't want her back...and I know I have to hold to that no matter what...otherwise I will never heal or change for myself...if I took her back I would be agreeing to endless repetitions on both our parts...   

Please don't be ashamed to admit that you miss her. This is a very common emotion. I still miss my ex-g/f terribly some days, but those days are becoming less and less frequent. I know as time passes, you will experience this as well.   Like you, I know if I ever allowed her back into my life, that would mean an endless cycle of unhealthy behavior.

You've seen me post a lot about the contact I've had from her since last September and how it's affected me in a negative way. I'll admit that there is a small part of me that was glad about hearing from her. After her abrupt and irrational departure from my life, this contact showed that she still thinks about me even though I know her motives are unhealthy. When she left me, she gave me the impression that she didn't care any longer by her choice of words.

When I left my ex-wife 7.5 years ago, I did it to protect our child from my ex's eating disorders and suicidal behavior. Not only was my ex-wife obsessed with food and what she ate, she carried this over to our child. When I left my ex-wife, our child was in the 5th percentile in regards to her weight. It was an awful situation.  My attorney recommended that I also file for divorce in addition to sole temporary custody. I told the attorney just to file for temporary custody and to hold off on the divorce in hopes that my ex-wife would improve after inpatient therapy. She never improved (still is in and out of treatment to this day) and filed for divorce on me after I filed the petition for sole custody. Between the divorce and custody matter, it dragged out in court from 2013 until Summer of 2019. I was drained financially and emotionally during that time, but at least my child stayed safe. Fortunately, I still have majority custody to this day.  She is a happy and healthy child that makes straight A's in school.

I saw you speak further down about your ex's over the top and irrational social media posts. I have also experienced this with my ex-wife and ex-g/f. A while back, I spoke to my therapist about this, and she said this type of behavior is the mental illness coming out, which is  all part of the BPD self-loathing complex.


I hope you have a peaceful and productive day today.

[cash05458]

Brighter, thank you for that note...I am so glad to hear the things with the child...a 6 year drain on that shows incredible courage and strenght...and that it turned out best for the child in the end...well, that is so deeply important. I admire you for that very very much...

Interesting comment as well that you passed on from your therapist about the social media behaviors...makes perfect sense to my situation...to me, her facebook posts are double edged...on the one hand to bulwark the new fantasy she has become submerged inside of and also to destroy the past and its ties...in this instance to the little village she lived in here for so long and had become so important to her...another instance of "family" as I said... 

Brighter, I hope you as well have a good and productive day...thank you for our talks here...they have helped...

[brighter future]

Interesting comment as well that you passed on from your therapist about the social media behaviors...makes perfect sense to my situation...to me, her facebook posts are double edged...on the one hand to bulwark the new fantasy she has become submerged inside of and also to destroy the past and its ties...in this instance to the little village she lived in here for so long and had become so important to her...another instance of "family" as I said... 

Brighter, I hope you as well have a good and productive day...thank you for our talks here...they have helped...

You're welcome. I'm glad to hear that our conversation has helped you. It helps me as well being able to share my experiences and keeps me on track.

Yes, I thought the statements that my therapist made about the BPD social media posts was very insightful. From both of my exes, I have seen social media posts of rage and also posts like they were straight out of fantasy land.

For instance, about 5  months ago a mutual friend of my ex-g/f and I made a post about sticking with the people that will "cross an ocean for you" and leaving behind those that won't "jump a puddle for you." Of course my ex had to reply to the mutual friend's post by saying that she, after all of these years, "Has finally found the person that will cross an ocean for me" referring to her newfound love. Keep in mind, this is the person that told me a couple of years prior that this same guy was a "drunk with no job, no car, and was just left by his wife. Our quick relationship was a rebound for me and meant nothing. He was one of four guys that contacted me after my separation from ________, and all four tried to talk me into things that made me uncomfortable. My relationship with him was unhealthy for both of us. You are one of only two guys that I've ever dated that's never asked me to do anything like that." For now the roles have changed, and this guy is her new savior. I never did buy into all of what she said because she consented to sex with him. She was a willing participant and was taking full advantage of it until I came along a while later. It's interesting because as I am typing this to you I just noticed something about her.  I looked out my kitchen window a few minutes ago and saw she's next door visiting at her parent's house. My employer has me and other fellow employees working remotely at home due to the virus at this.

My ex-wife would sometimes go into rages on Facebook while we were in the middle of the legal battles for custody and divorce (they were heard separately). One particular incident I remember was a day or two prior to one of the custody hearings. She never named me by name in her post, but she alleged that the devil was working through me because I took legal action because of how her illnesses were affecting our child. During this rant, she quoted several verses of scripture to back up her madness. Those are days that I'd like to erase from my memory. It was a struggle some days just to get up and go into work.

[cash05458]

one of the last things I will add to reading what occurred here with her...the cousin I mentioned who had become a father to her and the past, who died a few months ago...his name was RIchard...well, the new man's name is the same...Richard...

[once removed]

i locked and split your thread. threads are normally locked at two pages or around 30 posts. some get past us. i think your thread was five pages when i split it.

That is something that I am thinking about, hurting about...and I am seeing the exact same beginning as we had play out, only with another...the total overevaluation, the love bombing, the total belief...as if she is simply under a spell...and it is not that I want to stop her at this point...but that leaves me feeling...well, not sure how that leaves me feeling exactly...

part of detaching, for me, was realizing that "i was special, but not that special".

and then putting perspective behind it.

my ex was looking for someone new for, im pretty positive, a good two or three months before we broke up. the writing was on the wall for our relationship for longer than that. i was very unaware of that at the time, and, at the time, breaking up was the last thing i wanted to. it almost always is, for the person on the receiving end.

my ex and i were together for nearly (not quite) 3 years. we were special to each other. i havent spoken to her since, but i suspect she would agree. she was my first real adult relationship. we shared many firsts. i was her longest relationship at the time, and she was mine, by FAR. the way she ended it and jumped into another relationship wouldnt suggest that, at all. and that, obviously, made me feel pretty lousy for a very long time. i dont think anyone goes through your circumstances cash, and doesnt feel that way.

at the same time, we were young and dumb. we had more problems than i had the maturity to see at the time. we said lots of nice, loving words. i dont think we had the maturity to mean them till death did us part, as much as we meant them at the time.

but we said them, at the time, and they meant something to us, at the time. in my detaching process, i made them mean less, but ultimately, with no pain any longer associated, they do mean something to me to this day. it was an important, and special relationship. it was not my last, not even close. ive said a lot of special, sincere words to the women that have been in my life. id also be lying if i didnt admit, ive used some good lines on multiple girlfriends.

one of the hardest parts of breaking up is letting go of the words, and letting go of what we, at one time, meant to the other person, because, at the end of the day, if a breakup happens, and frankly even if it doesnt, that changes. and that really hurts to do, but you must realize at the end of the day, you werent just the greatest most wonderful man in the world (to her), you were also the worst (to her), and detaching is about letting go of and grieving both, and finding the truth in the middle.

[cash05458]

thanks Once...yeah, it's been tough...and being older, feel like I should know better...but hopefully will get there as you have...god, I hate this...

[brighter future]

one of the last things I will add to reading what occurred here with her...the cousin I mentioned who had become a father to her and the past, who died a few months ago...his name was RIchard...well, the new man's name is the same...Richard...

That is odd. I can't remember if you mentioned his age before, but is his age similar to your ex, or is he older?

The guy that my ex-g/f went to right after she left me (and before me) is the identical twin brother of her high school sweetheart.  They dated 18-20 years ago. She described the high school sweetheart to me as her "first love" and the fist guy she was with intimately. The mutual friends that she and I have tell me that it's like she is living in a high school fantasy with the twin brother in the present tense. Now she's had both brothers, and I think this feeds her ego to some degree. I would think that this would create an awkward situation at least from my perspective.

When I told you the other day about some BPD insight that therapist gave me, I forgot to include this. She told me that she has a female client with BPD that she's been working with on and off. If I remember correctly, she said this woman is in her late 20's or 30's. My therapist tells me that her BPD is pretty severe, and she will not stay consistent with her therapy and constantly cancels appointments. At times a month or two will go by before she sees her again. During one particular appointment, this woman broke down and said, I hate myself for doing the things I do. Why do I do  these awful things to people and myself?  My therapist told her, You can get better if you truly want have the desire to. First and foremost, you need to be consistent with your treatment and show up to therapy regularly. She said that she hasn't seen her since. This sounds kind of like my ex-g/f. My ex-wife, on the other hand, loves therapy and shows up regularly. However, her behavior never changes. The psychologist that did the forensic evaluation said she has done years of therapy but has made no significant changes in her life. He said it was his belief that she enjoyed being a patient because that role gives her consistent attention and more attachments.

[cash05458]

Brighter...thank you for writing that out...it's all interesting...my god ,the things we try to understand for them...I don't expect much understanding via myself...or I don't demand it...but we are always there, the ones trying to deal with their problems...

Yes, her Cousin was about 15 years older...and had adored her father...they had been best friends...and he took over that role over her life...always there for her...even as an adult...this triggered something very very deep when he died in her...I know I am right about this course and how it unfolded...and yeah, his name was Richard...and the new man's name is Richard...

Freud, who I have studied for going on 34 years now...calls this a "primary defense"...we all have defenses but they all break off that primary one like branches on a tree...but the primary one...in her case...the original and total abandonment that defines who she is and became...his dying I think triggered that primary one...and when that is triggered it is a total abandonment of reality...then it swoops into pure fantasy (the man in england...the savoir)...and my destruction here as well...

[brighter future]

We studied Freud in one of my Sociology classes in college, but that was 25 years ago. I can recall that some of his theories were interesting, however, I've forgotten them over the years. Maybe I'll read up on those again some evening after my child goes to bed. That would probably be better than surfing social media for a change or watching You Tube videos.  

I believe you mentioned that your ex was abused as a child. Did she ever say who the perpetrator was and the age that it occurred? Did she ever receive any type of treatment for it?  My ex-g/f was abused by her father's brother from the ages of 6-8. This same uncle abused two of her other siblings, and her parents never got the kids professional help for this abuse. That's where they really failed them. My ex-wife was abused by her mother's brother. She never reported any of this abuse to anyone until after our child was born. While we took her accusations seriously, the age ranges that this abuse occurred in changed at least 3-4 times over course of a few years. First, she stated that the abuse occurred when she was 15-17 years old, then it was 15-21 years, and I think her last accounting of the abuse was age 4 - 21. So none of us knew what to believe. Her stories about several things varied over the years in addition to the abuse allegations.

In regards to triggers, there were periods of time when my ex-g/f would just shut down on me, wouldn't want to talk and wanted to be alone. She appeared to be there physically, but mentally she was checked out almost like she was dissociating.   Different things would trigger her when this would happen. When I would ask what was bothering her, she would just say "the abuse when I was a kid and other things from my past. It has nothing to do with you." She leveled with me a few times and said in the past when things like that would come back start haunting her, she'd use alcohol and sex for comfort which allowed her a temporary escape. However, she said "When I was drunk it made me temporarily forget about things. But, the decisions I made when I was drunk were awful." One evening she told me, "Every time I've been intimate with you, it's because I love you and wanted to show you how much I love you. I want to keep it that way because I've used sex as a means for comfort in every relationship I've been in. I don't want our relationship to be like that." She said these types of things on days she was grounded in reality. On the days she wasn't grounded in reality, she was very impulsive, destructive, and irrational. I think our pending engagement also triggered her. She had a fiance before her ex-husband that left her abruptly and devastated her. Based on the stories she told me, it sounded like abruptly broke the engagement because parts of her mental illness were coming out. She kept telling me over and over that she didn't want a repeat of what happened with him and that she hadn't been this in love with anyone since him. I think this is part of why she did what she did with me about 5 weeks later. I also believe her ex-husband's engagement also played a role in our split. That made her spiral out of control even more, then she started blaming him because he deprived her of more children during there marriage. This whole time period was very bizarre and emotionally difficult.

Thanks for allowing me to share my experiences with you. Hope you don't mind.  Like you said, "the things we try to understand for them." It sure is mentally exhausting.

[cash05458]

Brighter...god, these heavy things we take on...I am an atheist but I surely know why the Christ on the cross fable exists...and it is very real...

Abuse...well mine certainly had many forms of sexual abuse in the orphanage...and in foster homes...from both other children and parental figures...she told me stories about living in the worst project in boston...cops rolling thru and having her and other girls give them oral sex for booze in the back of squad cars...this was when she was 13 or so...intense and HEAVY stuff...lines being crossed everywhere via authority...via the protectors...

She told me all that and many stories...but there was one...she said weeks before she left..."I have a story about sexual abuse I will never ever tell you...I was guilty of helping...promoting...dont ever ask...it is the most horrible thing..."

and I didn't push of course...but all that happened via words in the run up to the explosion...

[cash05458]

Oh Brighter, I see that I forgot to answer a specific question you asked...apologies...No, she never received any sort of treatment via all the childhood sexual abuse...

Was thinking back to a month ago when I arrived here...I think that I didn't want to accept that she is BPD...not at first...that was part of my denial as well...and now it seems so blatantly obvious to me now...and I certainly couldn't see while inside the relationship...think I was just constantly overwhelmed via the infamous rollercoaster stuff...

via Freud...oh yes , there are some great texts if you want to look again... Totem and Taboo is a terrific one...Civilization and its Discontents etc...I think my favorite has to be his last book, Moses and Monotheism...I have a beautiful hardcover set of the 24 volume Collected Works here on a shelf in my kitchen...I reread him often...

[once removed]

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