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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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Author Topic: Doing the right thing can be so hard  (Read 942 times)
RestlessWanderer
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« on: January 17, 2021, 12:43:12 PM »

It’s been four weeks now since I filed for a PO against my W. Two weeks since we made a mutual NC agreement/order. I screwed up after the first week of the NC and allowed contact. RWw called before a supervised visit saying the power had gone out in the home. So I went to help. It was just a breaker, and she had already fixed it. But I had allowed the door to be opened. After that we talked a couple of times. She was pleading for me to drop the NC. I considered modifying it to allow for unsupervised visits with the conditions of drug testing and counseling, things she said she was already doing. But those conditions set her off. I came clean to my L about the contact. She scolded me, but gave me another chance. I have to admit that it was my first instinct to lie about it to avoid getting into trouble. A behavior that I had picked up in my relationship. Thankfully I decided to be honest and the reaction was reasonable, which was a refreshing reminder of how people should react. I’ve maintained the NC since then.
RWw however has not. She continues to call, text, and email. She can’t seem to respect the NC.
The person we agreed on to supervise the visits changed her mind after just three visits. I guess she bit off more than she could chew, though RWw insists it’s my fault (no surprise). Since she didn’t find someone new before the weekend, my S doesn’t get to see his mom. RWw also missed the last two scheduled zoom calls, with no effort at all to reach out or even call on the phone.
I know that sticking to the NC and listening to my L is the right thing to do, but it feels so wrong since it ends up hurting our S. But the way I see it, I can’t bend over backwards to accommodate RWw when she hasn’t made a strong effort to find a new person in a timely fashion.
I know it hurts my S, but I don’t think it will make a major lasting impact. This is going to be hard no matter what, but I think he’s at the age where he is still relatively resilient.
I want to rush things for his sake, but I need to maintain the boundary and follow the rules.
The inner turmoil I endured when I permitted contact has gone away since I got back behind the NC. It will be my protection from her in many aspects and that is my only comfort in this difficult time.

On a side note, a very close friend of the family, the father of my lifelong best friend, suffered some very serious injuries this week after falling from a 2nd floor balcony. This has added some difficult emotional strain on top of everything else. I keep in touch with my T, which is helping.
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GaGrl
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« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2021, 01:19:56 PM »

Those in our lives with BPD aren't the only ones who learn by experiencing consequences! Obviously, you learned what happens When you loosen your boundaries even a little. So...you re-established boundaries that work. Good for you!I

Your STBW is going to move at her own pace. Nothing you do can hurry up (or slow down) her emotional reactions or growth. Add to that the uncertainty of her drug and alcohol use, and you simply can't move off the supervised visitation requirement.

Are you communicating with your STBX through your lawyer regarding the supervised visitation situation? And have you had your lawyer communicate to her that you have resumed NC?



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RestlessWanderer
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« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2021, 01:49:31 PM »

Those in our lives with BPD aren't the only ones who learn by experiencing consequences! Obviously, you learned what happens When you loosen your boundaries even a little. So...you re-established boundaries that work. Good for you!I

Your STBW is going to move at her own pace. Nothing you do can hurry up (or slow down) her emotional reactions or growth. Add to that the uncertainty of her drug and alcohol use, and you simply can't move off the supervised visitation requirement.

Are you communicating with your STBX through your lawyer regarding the supervised visitation situation? And have you had your lawyer communicate to her that you have resumed NC?
So true, the boundaries really protect me.
I learned long ago, there’s nothing I can do to bring about change in her.
All communication is through the Ls, at least on my part. STBX still tries to communicate with me, but I’m not responding to her. It’s slow, but safe, and filtered.
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2021, 02:16:48 PM »


So...to be clear (make sure I have it clear)

Power was out and you responded and that was the one and only visit, or were there other visits where the conversation continued?

This is important going forward, because at some point and time the issue of where your wife resides MUST be dealt with.

I don't for a minute think the power was off.  Plus, she didn't call you and "wave you off" when she fixed it...right?

She plotted for a way to get around the boundaries...and it worked for a bit, until you realized what was happening.

No..I'm not giving you a pass, but I don't think this one incident was as bad for you as you believe it is. 

Just as strongly, I don't believe you realize how unworkable the issue of her staying on the property is.

So...who does she call when the power goes out again?

Who pays the power bill?

Who does she call when sewer/septic backs up?  Water stops flowing?

So let's say that the landlord gives her a list of workers...who pays the bill?  Who pays when/if RWw doesn't pay?

Once RW wife realizes she can just run up repair bills/service calls to "tweak" you...how do you get it to stop?

I could go on...

Please don't focus on this one incident...focus on the big picture and make sure this incident is fully documented and you have a journal to refresh your memory if it is needed in the future.

Switching gears.

Why not offer supervised visits with RWw and a family therapist.  Leave it to RWw to set this up.

Best,

FF

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RestlessWanderer
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« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2021, 02:51:51 PM »

FF, those things have been on my mind. After the power, there was an issue with the refrigerator. My L advised me to find a handyman to handle those issues so I’m not at risk anymore. Unfortunately, my neighbor that had the fall had just agreed to be the handyman. I have someone else in mind, but I have to find out if he’ll work. This is short term.
Big picture/long term I’m going to offer the single wide mobile home as part of the settlement. This will get her off the property and further away. Plus it could help the long term financial impact.
We’re waiting for the court's recommendation for visits going forward, so we’ll see what happens next.
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2021, 03:24:34 PM »


Why is it that you have to solve the problem of where she lives, how she fixes her stuff?


Where is the single wide?  Who owns the property?

So...she "hooked" you with two issues and got you to do down there?

Can you get a statement from the person that was doing supervised visitation as to why she quit?  I think that would be powerful eye witness stuff.

Best,

FF

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« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2021, 03:44:28 PM »

Since my mom owns the home that STBX is in, we have some responsibility to maintain it.
The single wide is about 50’ away from the house she’s staying in now. I own that, pre marriage, and my L thought it could be a significant monetary contribution to the settlement, so it would be beneficial in that aspect.
Yes, she hooked me with those two “issues.” My L advised me to choose a handyman that could address anything else that comes up.
As for the statement from who was supervising, I don’t know what kind of value that would have. She is the sister-in-law of my W. I trusted that she could act in the best interest of our S, but I don’t think she’d want to get involved any further, especially if she had anything of value against STBX.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2021, 03:52:43 PM by RestlessWanderer » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2021, 04:06:39 PM »

 
So, when the court asks why she quit...and when RWw gives some weird reasons/allegations..


Hey, long term the distance between you guys needs to be measured in miles. 

Is the trailer rented now? 

Would be much better to rent out the trailers and use that monthly income to pay part of her rent somewhere else.

I get it you are likely interested in making sure she has a safe place for eventual visitation.  You could write the settlement to say that you will pay x amount directly to a landlord of her choosing as long as the apartment passes hud standards or something like that.


Hey...I'm not criticizing you.  I totally get where your heart is and your head...

If your wife gets treatment, gets sober and all the other things...then maybe consider it.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2021, 05:17:00 PM »

Part of your issues stem from the fact that you’re just too nice. I know how difficult it is to try to disentangle yourself from someone who has substance abuse issues and seems ill coped to make their own way in the world. You want to provide her with a safe landing spot, and that’s understandable.

What will likely continue to occur is that she won’t take the steps she needs to take to forge her own path if you continue to coddle her.

As in AA, sometimes a person needs to hit bottom to make a major life change. If you continue to rescue her, that won’t happen.

I know it’s tough to be in that role, having done that myself, and still it’s no guarantee that a loved one will have an epiphany that leads to making better life choices.

I agree with FF that allowing her to continue living on the property puts you, your son, and your mother at risk. Where is she obtaining the heroin? Do these people she associates with come to her living quarters? What about your legal exposure for harboring someone who associates with drug dealers? Is it possible that you could be putting your employment at risk? Or the custody of your son?

These are very serious issues and should she slip further into addiction, it’s likely that more problems will emerge.
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“The Four Agreements  1. Be impeccable with your word.  2. Don’t take anything personally.  3. Don’t make assumptions.  4. Always do your best. ”     ― Miguel Ruiz, The Four Agreements: A Practical Guide to Personal Freedom
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« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2021, 06:13:16 PM »

FF and CatFamiliar, I agree that our peace and the distance between us are inversely related. I don’t think there will be any objection to her living far from us, which makes the settlement process easier. Right now we don’t have any renters, she’s in one house and technically I’m in the other. Which raises the question of how long I should stay with my mom. On one hand she’s 80 and could use the company, and she helps with childcare. On the other hand I don’t want to be a middle aged guy living with my mom. I’m going to remain for the time being, as the pros outweigh the cons. It’s much easier for me to process things if I know that there’s someone to help me with my S.

Cat, I am actively disentangling from STBX. I regret that I let my kindness get the best of me. Lesson learned. I definitely see this as a consequence of her actions, regardless of what she says. My L thinks the courts will agree.

FF, you raise a good point about the value of a statement from RWw SIL. I’ll ask L about doing this too. It’s a little awkward, so L might help with a justification for it.
I like your idea of renting to pay her rent, which I’ll surely have to pay for a period of time. Unfortunately with her disability I may have to support her for a long period of time, TBD.
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« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2021, 07:00:40 PM »



Perhaps have the L or a paralegal reach out for a statement.

I'm going to say that you need to stay at your Mom's until your wife is completely off the property AND a no trespassing order is in place so she never comes back.

Until then, you don't need to be in ANY SITUATION WHATSOEVER where you are alone with her.

So...enjoy the company of your Mom and enjoy that she is also a witness.

I've been thinking about you and your thread for most of the day.  Where you alone with your wife for the power deal and the fridge?

Switching gears:  Tell us about your wife's drug use?  How does she get the drugs?  If a drug dog went in the trailer, what are chances that dog would find drugs?  What about in the car?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2021, 08:19:56 PM »

FF that’s a good idea about having L reach out for the statement.
I totally agree about not being alone with STBX. When I went to check on the power during one of the supervised visits. When I went to check on the fridge she was alone. I made an audio recording of it all, at least. From now on I’m sticking to the NC.

I’m not certain about the drug use at all. When she told me she was using, she indicated that she was using in her vehicle away from home. If she’s  getting it from the same place as she did before, it’s about 45 miles away. That being said, I can’t rule out that she’s used in the home. It hasn’t been her MO, but than can always change.
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« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2021, 09:04:57 PM »

Never trust what an addict says about their using. Frequency, location, method- nothing.

My ex was claiming to be completely sober while shooting up in the shed a few yards behind his mom's house.

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« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2021, 10:07:11 PM »

 do you have proof she is using?
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« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2021, 11:51:55 PM »

I don’t have proof she is nor do I have proof she isn’t.

All I have are suspicions and patterns of behaviors.
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« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2021, 05:49:39 AM »


OK, so do you have any recordings of admissions or anything like that?

Clarity:  She has admitted to you in the past she used..correct?

How do you know about the place 45 minutes away?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2021, 05:51:34 AM »

  When I went to check on the fridge she was alone. I made an audio recording of it all, at least. 

Solid work on this part.  You understand at some level the danger that is going on.

For all of your recordings, are they backed up "in the cloud"? (like google drive)

Best,

FF
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« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2021, 07:59:02 AM »

Part of your issues stem from the fact that you’re just too nice... You want to provide her with a safe landing spot, and that’s understandable.

What will likely continue to occur is that she won’t take the steps she needs to take to forge her own path if you continue to coddle her.

I'll echo that perspective.  Work with your counselor on why you feel responsible for her not seeing your son when she fails to find a supervisor for the visit, why you feel at fault when she doesn't do video visits with him, why you of all people feel obligated to be the one to rush over when something breaks down, supposedly, at her residence.

Frankly, a few failed visits with his mother won't ruin his life.  Repeat, there is a format for her and your son to meet, you weren't mean nor responsible because the framework failed a few times.

My lawyer told me... Another client, described as nice but clueless, had a contrived restraining order against him but his divorce decree said he had to deliver wood to his ex's home.  So he was required to do something that his other order prohibited.  He would have been better just not doing it but since she needed wood, he delivered it.  Maybe it would have worked if he had someone else deliver it, I don't know.  His reward for compliance?  He was jailed for the violation.

Technically that is not your situation... unless you are also ordered to keep your distance from her.  But you're like that Nice Guy who went to jail, you're making emotion-driven decisions, not practical ones.

Learn from this.  Use the armchair quarterback skills we all have to review what happened, why it went wrong and how to address future quandaries.
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« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2021, 08:52:54 AM »



Learn from this.  Use the armchair quarterback skills we all have to review what happened, why it went wrong and how to address future quandaries.

And also...be deliberate about creating situations where you have to make less and less of these types of decisions.

Instead of focusing on fixing her fridge (power..video)

Focus on creating a safe space for you.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #19 on: January 18, 2021, 12:17:23 PM »

OK, so do you have any recordings of admissions or anything like that?

Clarity:  She has admitted to you in the past she used..correct?

How do you know about the place 45 minutes away?
All I have are text messages where she insinuated using some contrived code words. She said things like she “had breakfast, was full, had been on a diet but not anymore.”

The town she’s from has the highest heroin use per capita in the country and maybe even the world. It’s horrible how bad it is there. That’s where she used to get it from, and I know she goes there nearly every day.

Unfortunately, regarding the issues related to the home, since my mom owns it, STBX has some rights and protections under landlord/tenant laws. I will no longer take care of these issues, but we do have some responsibility to solve these issues.
This is why I would like to get her off the property as soon as possible. But that is likely to be dependent on the settlement.

Regarding the missed visitations and calls, I certainly don’t feel any responsibility for fixing that. I do feel for my S, but I’m not going out of my way to resolve those issues.

I’ve already been talking with my T about these issues. I know that I can keep from trying to solve her problems. But just because our marriage is over and I don’t trust her behavior, it doesn’t mean I don’t still love her and worry about her. It’s not a switch I can just flip. But I can control my actions. I have enough self awareness to be able to recognize that weakness and protect myself from her taking advantage of it. I let down my guard once, but I understand what’s at stake should I do it again. I’m not going to screw it up. I know she’s not good for me, and I won’t let her back into my life (except for the minimum required for co-parenting). 
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« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2021, 12:46:02 PM »


Does your wife have a written lease to the property?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2021, 12:54:12 PM »

We never had a lease or any written agreement. The only legal document pertaining to allowing her to stay there is the NC.
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« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2021, 04:17:14 PM »

It doesn't matter what you do or do not do - your wife will disappoint and hurt your son.  Her disorder makes her unable to follow through on promises and to have the executive function to clean up her act.  You can cover for her for a  time, but eventually your S will see what is going on.

My SD is 13.  I wish with everything in me that I could take away the pain her mom has caused her, but I can't.  All I can do is be there to comfort and validate and get her the help she needs to deal with the disillusionment.

Also, I totally get that you want to help your wife out, for her sake and for your son.  But it will never end.  When I met my h, he'd been divorced for almost 3 years and he was still running over at midnight to help his ex fix something (because it affected SD too).  When we got married, I put a stop to that.   His ex figured out how to solve her own problems.
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« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2021, 09:49:35 PM »

Worriedstepmom, I certainly hope she doesn’t disappoint our S, but I fully expect it. I was actually talking about with my mom this evening. I am happy to be the consistent parent, I welcome the role. Now that I’m not enduring the constant criticism I’ve noticed that I am much more even keeled.

I’m staying strong and declining STBX’s requests for any help. I slipped up once, but not again. The sooner she learns to solve her own problems the better. She’s been texting me asking me to change the oil in her truck and put on new wipers. I haven’t responded as that would violate the NC. I’m keeping track of all the times she breaks it.
It’s a little ironic that now that I’ve ended things how much she wants my help. She used to tell me regularly how much she didn’t need me for anything. But I suppose that’s common in pwBPD, especially during a divorce.
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« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2021, 07:15:07 AM »

The sooner she learns to solve her own problems the better.

And this applies to all areas of her life?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2021, 03:43:16 PM »

And this applies to all areas of her life?

That may be wishful thinking, but yeah, I do wish that would happen. I think the point is I should no longer give intermittent reinforcement and leave her to solve her problems on her own.
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« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2021, 03:50:17 PM »


Such as her housing choices?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2021, 04:12:52 PM »

Speaking of housing...she apparently didn’t like the offer my attorney sent regarding giving and moving a mobile home to a location away from here. She’s saying that she has rented a house ~60 miles away. She seems to expect that she can live wherever she wants and receive full rent from me. I assume the court will decide how much support is reasonable based on a variety of factors. This is where I’m grateful for a great attorney.
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« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2021, 04:32:13 PM »


Just know that your offers and negotiations are NOT binding until accepted by both parties.

It's not your job to worry about what she rents, how much or her expectations.  (read that a few times)

If she rents something and moves off without an agreement in place, it's not your problem.

Is there any agreement in place about sending her any amount of money?

Does she receive any money directly to her that is independent of you (disability or any other income).

And...personal/professional plea from FF.  Please don't ever authorize your attorney to offer her the mobile home or anything like that which is currently on or near your property.

60 miles away is a  decent distance.

 Virtual hug (click to insert in post) Virtual hug (click to insert in post) Virtual hug (click to insert in post) Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

Best,

FF
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« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2021, 09:39:22 PM »

I understand that until an agreement is reached and legally binding documents are signed, nothing is certain.

To be clear, I’m not worrying about what she rents or what her expectations are. That will be sorted out in the settlement process through negotiations.
I didn’t think I was saying that I was worrying about it. My intention was to give an update. Sorry for any confusion I might have caused.
Right now she has some money in a separate account. At some point it will be figured out what kind of support she will get.

She has no income, but I believe she has started the process to get disability, which seems to be just a matter of time. This could be good and bad. On hone hand she would have an income of sorts. On the other this might require more support from me and for a longer period of time.

The only offer we would make would be to move a mobile home off the property. This could be seen as a large asset, which could reduce the amount of support I would give her.

I trust my attorney to give me good advice on how to handle these things. She has a good reputation and continues to show me that she is working in my best interest. It helps that she is engaged to my brothers best friend, but she still holds her professional obligations above the personal ties.
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« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2021, 06:49:23 AM »


OK...I get what you are saying. 

If you were to ever consider giving the trailer, you need to read other threads about how and when to sign over the asset. 

For instance, if you sign an agreement that gives her the trailer and then she is supposed to move the trailer...what happens if you sign over the trailer, she doesn't move it...and moves in, squatting on your land.

As opposed to and agreement that allows her to move the trailer, with signed title to be delivered to her after the trailer has been moved from your land.  And of course, she must provide proof of insurance prior to moving the trailer.

See how things are arranged to not leave you holding the bag.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2021, 10:32:44 AM »

That’s good advice FF. If she accepts the offer, I’ll make sure it includes moving it off the property. I know my L already asked if she had a location in mind.
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« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2021, 10:39:35 AM »


And make sure you understand the "general advice".

Any responsibility she has to do something needs to be done first, especially if it could affect you.

So...your signed paper about the trailer is at your Ls and ready to be delivered upon receipt of x, y and z from her.

Maybe even more important, if she doesn't do x, y an z by   E date, a, b and c will happen.

So..lots of thinking things through about how she can screw stuff up

Best,

FF
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« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2021, 11:46:44 AM »

I agree 100%
I want everything laid out and clearly stated with conditions and consequences
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« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2021, 06:59:30 AM »


What is the latest?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2021, 03:01:54 PM »

No new news. Visitations have been going well. My S is responding well to the more consistent routines that STBX would constantly veto. I don’t think there’s anything that an needs done about getting her to provide some school work while he’s with her on weekdays. Any thoughts?

Otherwise everything else is still waiting on the process to play out.
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« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2021, 03:12:13 PM »

Glad the routine is good for S.

Am I tracking correctly that S isn't currently doing schoolwork with xW on weekdays?

Remind me... is he officially enrolled anywhere (public/private/homeschool), or still young enough to be not in the system yet?

Is there schoolwork he is required to do, coming from someone other than you and xW?

Just asking in order to get a feel for the "need to have" vs "nice to have".

We're in the middle of this right now, too. SD14 is being "homeschooled" and I'm teaching math for her. She's pretty self-directed so it goes OK as long as we do a phone call 1-2 times a day. SD12 is officially in public school but all remote, and she is struggling to get work done at Mom's. Apparently she hasn't done math for 2 weeks... so as much as I have not wanted to go this route, I just emailed Mom to say "SD12 needs a set time to do math every day, let me know a time when you are able/willing to make her available for zoom". No idea how that's going to go.

All that to say, it might be asking a lot for xW to independently come up with and assist with schoolwork. If S isn't enrolled anywhere, but it'd be nice for him to practice adding/writing while with her, you may need to take the lead and send worksheets with him, if it's high on your priority list. If he is enrolled somewhere and the HW is coming from a 3rd party, it just might turn out that he does it all with you, if she isn't able to supervise/ensure he does it.

Maybe give it a couple of weeks as an experiment either way, and make sure to document (i.e., initial/date the worksheets) what he does where. It might not be fair that he doesn't do HW with her, but it might be reality.
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« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2021, 03:43:36 PM »



Who is supervising the visitations?

Has she still been trying to contact you/violate the TPO?

How do the handoffs work?

When is the next official court thing/hearing?

What kind of routines is your son responding well to?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2021, 09:24:56 PM »

Kells, last summer STBX and I agreed to disenroll S7 from public school and conduct homeschooling instead due to our concerns with COVID. She compiled lots of great resources and worked hard to transform the bedroom of our deceased son into a makeshift classroom. Early in the school year she was very active in the instruction. But it didn’t take long for her to fizzle out. Since then I’ve been providing all of the instruction, with the assistance of my mom (S often requests her over me, except for math). Before we moved out X didn’t do any school time on any of the recurring days I had to go in to work (two half days every three weeks). They usually laid in her bed and watched TV for most of the time I was gone.
Based on the challenge of keeping him engaged and working hard to maintain a regular learning schedule, he needs all the instruction he can get. I’m not counting on it, and I’m working hard on that being yet another example of me being consistent for him. This ends up being more “mom is the fun one” and “mom gets me gifts.” He hasn’t said it, but I know that is his experience. It doesn’t threaten me that she’s spoiling him, but I know it’s not the ideal way to parent. It’s also not surprising.
As you said, it might not be fair, but it is reality.

FF, the visits are now being supervised by my mom and a friend my X. She’s finally getting the point that I won’t violate the order so she’s stopped trying to contact me. She does show signs that she hates not being in control. She’s tried to get me t “just sign the papers” to get this over with. But this process needs to play out. The only date we have is in a couple of weeks for the divorce. We should be hearing something from the priority consultation any day now, but I don’t know when.

My S is responding well to a regular bed time and brushing teeth twice a day. Before, mom would let him stay up late because she would sleep half the day. Also, due to the inconsistency of brushing times, she would let him go to bed w/o brushing just to not have him argue with me. Now that we have a routine, we don’t argue about brushing anymore.
Handoffs have been simple since the visits are here on the property. Whoever is supervising picks him up and drops him off (or in the case of my mom, she just has to take him down with her).
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« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2021, 09:46:58 AM »

OK, gotcha.

To me, it sounds like in order to have the engagement and regular learning schedule, you may need to plan on 100% of the learning time being with you and your mom. Any learning/work he does with xW would be a "wonderful bonus". If she has already put together a lot of curriculum etc, I wouldn't necessarily send worksheets or HW with S -- she can find material if she is up for it. I guess if she communicates with you about "hey, could you send some handwriting practice sheets with S today" then I wouldn't withhold that, but if she doesn't reach out for materials/HW, I wouldn't overfunction for her.

Don't stress about matching "seat hours" that he would have gotten otherwise (i.e., don't feel like you have to make "learning hours with RW equal learning hours with RW plus learning hours that would've been with xW"). I think he'll do fine with lower # of hours as long as it's predictable. Like, maybe he "should" be getting 15 hours a week of learning time (or whatever at his age), but because of xW's inconsistency, you can't be sure he's getting 3 hours with her on Tuesday (or whenever). I wouldn't try to make that up... I'd bank on 0 school getting done with her and schedule accordingly.

Could you remind me if you ended up setting up a coparenting app/account (like Our Family Wizard)? It might be a good move to at least post a weekly or every other week update of S's schooling progress, so that you can say "yes, I am communicating about S's education". In our state, both parents have a right to "inspect and receive school records", so if you're homeschooling and doing most of the work with S, try to keep some kind of records/report. I send SD14's mom a weekly "math HW coming up" email and include chapter test grades when applicable, just to cover that base.

Hope that helps;

kells76
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« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2021, 10:18:12 AM »


So does the "supervisor" stay in the house for the entire time?

How often are visits?  How long?

What papers does your wife want you to sign?

I ask this because you can and should use the impulsivity of a pwBPD "for your family's benefit".  Don't try to be "fair".

Best,

FF
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« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2021, 07:50:11 PM »

You're doing a really great job in a tough situation, RW.

How does your mom experience supervising the visits? Is it uncomfortable for her?
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« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2021, 09:59:43 PM »

Kells, that’s a good point. At his age most guidelines I see say he needs a max of 90 minutes of instruction/day (surprising right?). So I’m just expecting her to satisfy her guilt by spoiling him while he’s with her. I enrolled in Talking Parents a week and a half ago. She has yet to enroll. I’ve had the app send her multiple invites via email and text as well as sending the invite code with my mom. Again, I’m doing my part.

FF, the supervisor is to maintain a direct line of sight with S at all times during visitations. The weekday visit is 4 hours and weekends are 7 hrs/day (sat &sun). STBX wants me to sign the divorce papers and get it over with, and I assume agree to all her terms. She’s not one to negotiate. She seems to hate not being in control now. Which is why I’m trusting my L.

Redeemed, thanks for the kind words. Your encouragement helps more than you know. So far my mom has reported pleasant experiences during the visits. STBX is probably putting on an act to look like she’s holding up well and to make it look like my claims are unfounded. But I don’t really waste much time guessing her motives.
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« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2021, 04:38:20 AM »


Has she actually presented signable papers?

How far apart are your "positions"?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2021, 02:09:37 PM »

FF, I doubt she actually has anything to sign. So far we haven’t exchanged positions. So, I’m not sure where we stand. That is still to come.
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« Reply #45 on: February 04, 2021, 03:54:58 PM »

What’s the current status of things? And how are you and your son doing?
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« Reply #46 on: February 05, 2021, 11:56:59 PM »

What’s the current status of things? And how are you and your son doing?
We are waiting for the recommendations to come from the priority consultation. I expected it the end of this week, but something must have come up. I had a follow up interview with him on Tuesday. He was leaning towards continuing with the supervised visitations. STBX had initially granted him permission to speak with her Dr., but had since rescinded. The PC  had sent another request at the beginning of the week, but I don’t know if he reviewed a response. Perhaps he did and that is why it’s taking longer than he said. He was very reassuring and gave me alot of peace of mind. He strongly urged me to be cautious with her since she is clearly trying to manipulate me into letting her back into my life and drop the NC. He asked about her behavior and indicated that she was showing her erratic nature to him. It really made me feel good to hear that a completely neutral person was seeing some of the same things I see. It’s one thing to have friends and family believe me, but to have someone in his position and with his experience see that she is impulsive and erratic was really validating.
Since I sent her a message telling her that I was going to continue following the NC and asked her to read it again she has finally stopped contacting me. However, her attorney sent to mine a motion they intended to file requesting custody until the PC recommendations are adopted by the court. In this motion numerous false claims were made against me, ranging from me not keeping up with my sons schooling and neglecting his health. Thankfully I have evidence to refute nearly everything. On top of that my mom is a nurse and I have a masters of health science in sports medicine, so to claim that he doesn’t have appropriate healthcare is unfounded. IMO filling that motion could end up hurting STBX more than me since I can disprove pretty much everything in there.

My son and I are otherwise doing well. This obviously has ups and downs, but overall things are better now than before. Not having to live day to day wondering what is going to set her off is by far the biggest benefit so far. I’m sure my son recognizes that as well, though he does miss his mom and wishes that he could go home.

We have a hearing coming up regarding support, so I have to prep for that. My L and I will start working on proposals next week.
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« Reply #47 on: March 12, 2021, 08:26:40 AM »

Move to the top

Hey...what's new in your world?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #48 on: March 13, 2021, 04:57:23 AM »

Hey there FF,
Kinda in the doldrums lately. We’re still waiting on the recommendations from the priority consultation. We have mediation coming up on the 25th. STBX requested a hearing for her motion to get temporary custody until the PC recommendations are adopted by the court. That same day my L filed a motion to suspend visitations until a drug test and a COVID test are done. Later that day the judge decreed that we would continue to follow the visitation schedule as stated in the NC. The PC told us he would issue his recommendations by today. But nothing came through.
The day after Valentines Day STBX told my mom that she had been exposed to COVID. We suspended visitations then and my mom and son got tested a few days later. Both were negative!
STBX reported symptoms so we quarantined for 2 wks just to be on the safe side. Since then STBX has not produced a COVID test. She has also missed most of the scheduled zoom calls and hasn't made much effort at all to even call on the phone.All of this is being well documented. I'm not sure what is going on with her. I don't buy her excuses (internet and phone problems at home and who knows why she can't find a phone anywhere else). She has also run out of money. I'm not sure if I posted about this before, but in November we received a check for 50k from my car insurance for our son that was killed in the car accident. She took that check and deposited it in her own account. In less than 4 months she spent it all! Drug abuse is the most obvious explanation.

Not seeing or talking to his mom for most of the last month is starting to take a toll on him. Thankfully he is still being such a good boy. He continues to talk to his therapist and has had some really productive sessions lately. Hopefully she will get proof of a COVID test soon so he can see her again. And hopefully the PC recommendations will come through soon.

I continue to talk to my therapist and I still feel good about my decision to do this. As hard as this is, it is still 100 times better than my day-to-day used to be. I'm still going to make sure she lives somewhere else regardless of what she wants. It just won’t work if she stays here.

I guess I had more to report than I thought. Thanks for checking in FF
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« Reply #49 on: March 13, 2021, 11:00:33 AM »

I’m so glad that you’re no longer under the continual stress and poor treatment you experienced on a daily basis when you lived together.

Now the stress you’re under is more “normalish” for someone navigating a divorce and I’m sure you have a lot more resources to deal with it.

With distance comes the clarity of truth. She obviously has some very concerning behavioral habits and sadly, it’s a good thing that your son doesn’t have much contact with her now. Hopefully she will be able to get these problems under control in the future and be able to be a better parent.

The machinations of divorce court seem to move at a snail’s pace until one day you’re actually done, and free. It will be a great relief when all the legal issues are finally settled. Keep us posted about your journey.

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« Reply #50 on: March 14, 2021, 11:30:38 PM »

Thank you for your support Cf

I'm starting  to think that STBX is not going to get better. Over the last week she's been sending me cryptic messages pointing to suicidal thoughts. It's a terrible position to be put in. On the one hand I don't want to violate the NC so I only send her messages pertinent to our son or other necessary communications. On the other hand would hate to have it actually happen and I never did anything about it. I no longer feel the responsibility to take care of her and have steeled myself against feeling that I should help her solve her problems.for my sons sake I feel like I should try and help her.
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« Reply #51 on: March 15, 2021, 06:36:57 AM »


How is she sending you these messages?  Do you have them saved and archived?

Can you share a few here?

My thought is that it's possible they will "help" you in your court case and also may serve as "proof" that she needs help forced on her...if she won't willingly take it.

Best,

FF
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« Reply #52 on: March 15, 2021, 09:35:03 AM »

I'm starting  to think that STBX is not going to get better.

By the time most persons arrive here and post, they've been trying for years to help the disordered partner, and failing.  So it's not like learning skills and boundaries is our first effort.  So it's not a surprise that additional efforts also failed.  We still want to fix things but too often this then becomes a case where we have to Accept the reality.

Over the last week she's been sending me cryptic messages pointing to suicidal thoughts. It's a terrible position to be put in.

The professionals do not expect us to deal with suicide, we haven't been trained to deal with that.  However, emergency responders, hospitals and other professionals have had training or know where to direct such cases.  This is a matter where you can let them deal with it.

However, you can expect her to Deny such "cryptic messages" if reported.  That's where documentation comes in, at some point she may get more explicit.  Whether she is truly suicidal or not — or is just trying to manipulate you — is not for you to decide or fret.
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« Reply #53 on: March 15, 2021, 12:00:17 PM »

FF so she has told me for years that she knows how she would do it, drive into an oncoming semi, OD so it’s peaceful, or she has just suggested that she has a plan. Lately she has been sending me text messages saying things like “I can’t take this anymore”, telling me she got a will completed, asking me if I will ensure she’s buried where she wants, telling me to be sure to get an autopsy to show that her system is clean (to prove she’s not an addict), asking to see the life insurance policy that I have on her (I’m assuming to check if suicide would cancel any benefits). We found out about a neighbors brother that just killed himself and she empathized with him and made a comment about how men tend to be impulsive when they commit suicide, but women plan it out. Then she asked to talk to me in person because she didn’t want the last time we spoke to each other to have been “that morning” (I’m not sure what she’s referring to, either the day I left or the day she barged into my moms and was later served).

I know that I don’t bear the responsibility for trying to save her. But if she has no one to turn to and is “crying out for help” I wish I knew who I could call. I understand that there may be absolutely nothing I can do if she’s really going to do it. I know that if she did it it wouldn’t be because of something I did or didn’t do.

It’s a helpless feeling.

I don’t want her in my life anymore, but not like this
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« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2021, 11:43:35 PM »

My guess is that she is trying to pull you back in through guilt, but the messages she is sending you sound serious enough to pass off the responsibility to professionals.  If I were you, I would approach the next message by calling it in to 911 and have them check on her.

If you receive a concerning message and call it in, you're covered on two fronts.  One - That you care, because you do.  Two - that you won't be pulled into any kind of a guilt trip over suicidal threats.  Then, make it clear that this isn't a game, and any further messages even hinting about suicide will be followed up by a call to 911. 
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« Reply #55 on: March 18, 2021, 11:43:28 PM »

On Monday morning I called my attorney, my therapist, and the suicide hotline. Their advice was similar: there are legitimate and serious concerns, but certain actions and comments made also indicate that its not imminent. My therapist and the hotline recommend keeping a close eye on things and I now have local resources to reach out to in the future. All 3 also recommended welfare checks by law enforcement if I feel it's necessary.

A couple of days later STBX sent me another message saying she had just come from treatment and therapy. I'm not sure what that meant. It made me wonder if perhaps she was receiving treatment for the lumps she showed me in her breasts a few months ago. If in fact they turned out to be cancerous and it's serious she could be preparing for the potential of not surviving. That would explain the will and the questions about life insurance. It might even explain what happened to the 50k. Regardless, she isn't being completely honest.

She still has not produced proof of a negative COVID test, so visitations didn't resume yesterday as scheduled. However, since today was our sons 8th birthday I felt comfortable allowing a brief visit, with the blessing of my attorney, with the condition of wearing masks and doing their best at observing COVID safe guidelines. It meant a lot to my son since he hadn't seen her in more than a month. When he and my mom got home I was disappointed, but not surprised, that the masks didn't stay on the whole time. Yet again she showed me that if I give her an inch she'll take a mile. I don't think that was an unreasonable request considering she told us she had extended exposure to multiple people with positive tests, not to mention she then told us that she had experienced multiple symptoms including fever, cough, loss of taste, malaise, and body aches. She even told us she was diagnosed with pueomania and had gone to the hospital for oxygen therapy. I find it impossible to believe that she would have been seen in a hospital with all of those symptoms and that diagnosis without a COVID test.

Over and over again she's making it very hard to believe anything she says.I just can't give her the benefit of the doubt anymore.not to mention the lies she is willing to put into court record (many of which I can disprove with evidence). As much as my son wants to see her, she just isn't making it easy. I feel more and more justified.
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« Reply #56 on: March 19, 2021, 07:23:51 AM »


Do you need any more information/experiences to feel secure in your course of action?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #57 on: March 23, 2021, 09:29:53 PM »

I definitely feel secure in my actions. I have not lost sight of what brought this all on. However, just because I know why this is happening doesn’t mean that I stop caring for the woman I loved enough to marry and start a family with. I sometimes feel bad about what she must be going through and wish it could be different. Whenever I have doubts or feel guilty I just think about what it was like before and I quickly feel justified.
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« Reply #58 on: March 23, 2021, 09:45:35 PM »

It’s sad and it’s tragic, and you’ve already had more tragedy than anyone should have to deal with.

I’d love it if we could wave a magical wand and our partners could be cured, but the sad thing is that they are unlikely to want to go through the struggle to actually achieve some sense of wellness and we just have to accept that.
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