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Skills we were never taught
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Author Topic: should I stay or should I go?  (Read 608 times)
Popsie

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
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« on: January 21, 2021, 08:31:35 PM »

I've never joined an online support group before and this is my first post ever.  I don't really know how this works or if it will be helpful but I'm desperate to not feel alone in dealing with being married to someone who I think has BPD.  I've been married to my husband for 10 years, together for about 15 years.  It blows my mind that only now, after years of chaos and fights, I realize he may have BPD.  It explains so much.  When I listened to Walking on Eggshells 6 months ago it blew my mind because I could identify with so much of what was being described.  It was so validating and such a relief to know I wasn't alone and I wasn't going crazy.  But now 6 months since the realization, the struggle is still real.  I am now mourning the relationship I always thought I would have.  Im so sad and have cried my eyes out for months.  I feel so anxious around my husband because of his anger and unreasonableness that I can't sleep.  He has been seeing a counsellor for many years and sadly very little has changed.  In fact when I look back over the 10 years we have been married, it has gotten progressively worse despite the counselling (he has never been formally diagnosed by the counsellor but 6 months ago I asked her privately and she agreed that he does exhibit the traits but that it's a continuum and to not get fixated on the diagnosis which was somewhat helpful.)

In the beginning of our relationship I had few needs. I was very confident, independent, and happy so I didn't lean on my husband for emotional support.  In fact he leaned on me because he was grieving his father and had a strained relationship with his mother (a red flag I should have taken more seriously.)  For many years things were good because  I needed so little.  It wasn't until I got pregnant and needed some support from him that I realized there was a real problem so I booked us an appointment with a marriage counsellor.  That was 8 years ago...  and we have been seeing a counsellor on and off ever since as a couple and as individuals. 

For years I have felt like if I only learn how to say things the right way, the fighting will stop.  If I only tell him how I feel in the right words he will get it.  If I only...  etc etc etc until I felt like I was going crazy.

I'm especially worried about my 2 young kids.  Worried about the emotional scars they carry from the horrible cycle of disagreements turning into chaos in our home.  He has called me horrible names in front of them (I want to add that I do not do this to him ever), called me a liar, disingenuous, "Hitler"... etc etc and I'm so ashamed they had to witness this and feel deep pain when I think about how scary it must be for them.  I want to do what is best for them and am trying to figure out what that is.  I want them to learn what a healthy relationship looks like and I'm afraid their only example so far has been a horrible example.  Any words of advise or anyone out there experience something similar?  Or from anyone who has left a marriage/ stayed in a marriage with kids?  I have little faith that he will change his behaviour even though he is seeing a counsellor.  I'm staring down the barrel of reality and asking myself "is there a better life for me and the kids if we separate? 

but then I fear how he will treat me and the kids if I initiate a separation... this is a special kind of hell.

Should I stay or should go?
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RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING
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once removed
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« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2021, 04:13:19 AM »

hi Popsie and Welcome

Excerpt
I asked her privately and she agreed that he does exhibit the traits but that it's a continuum and to not get fixated on the diagnosis which was somewhat helpful.)

this is wise advice.

i remember when i first learned about BPD; it wasnt until after my own breakup, but it was invaluable in understanding what i had been through, making me feel less alone, letting me know that this was hard stuff!

at the same time, it tends to be that underlying the relationship woes are issues bigger than bpd. dont get me wrong. bpd presents its own unique set of relationship challenges. my own relationship certainly did, some pretty unspeakable stuff. but there were larger issues of values, compatibility, and, for that matter, that neither of us were handling our differences in the most constructive way.

the knowledge of bpd can be a godsend and help you enormously. the skills and tools taught here can push your relationship in the direction of anywhere between "you gave it your best and it didnt work" to "good enough" to "significantly improved". youve been married a long time, and the problems werent created over night, and wont be solved over night, but with effort, can improve.

one of the best bits of advice i got here was not to stop with the eggshells book. grab Stop Caretaking, and Loving Someone with BPD (you can find more here: https://bpdfamily.com/content/book-reviews). SWOE gives us a lot of the validation that we need, that things arent all our fault, it lays out the challenge ahead of us, but that things can get better. Stop Caretaking is more about us...some of the nonconstructive approaches we bring to the relationship. Loving Someone is about how to create the healthy, healing environment needed for your relationship, and the two of you as individuals, to thrive.

in addition, youll need a strong support group, and i know of no better place.
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     and I think it's gonna be all right; yeah; the worst is over now; the mornin' sun is shinin' like a red rubber ball…
Latrodge

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« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2021, 08:54:49 PM »

Popsie
Since you asked a direct question, I will give you a direct answer from my experience - I hope it is acceptable on this board.  If you have a support structure to help you through it, Go.  I can relate to your story.  After about 20 years of marriage, and many round-and round arguments that solved nothing, family and community conflict, and verbal assaults, I wrote several  long letters to my BPDw outlining how her rages, anger, foul language towards me and other family members (and neighbors, sports coaches, etc - many times in front of our boys), were not normal and destructive. I termed it simply a pathological "anger issue" at the time. I found that writing was better than talking because conversations around her behavior tended to get obscured with diversions or blaming, then JADING on my part. She wasn't bi-polar, but she wasn't normal... I did not realize at the time there was this netherworld in between.  It wasn't until two years later that I even heard of BPD.  Once I re-read those letters, I realized that what I had been describing was so obviously BPD it was scary. I, like you, was dumbfounded that it took me 20 years or more to figure it out - that there was actually a "thing".  Unfortunately, I naively believed that simply finding and naming the problem was a step of progress - it wasn't.  In my experience and from what I've read here and other places, telling a person with BPD that they have it (or exhibit the traits), is not a step towards healing as we 'nons' would assume. To us it seems the response would be "thank God I now know what's wrong with me, thank you!, now I can get help". But that is not how they see it, it is an affront and can lead to increased conflict once they know that you know there is 'something wrong' with them. My W never sought the help necessary, only  enough to placate me and her siblings and to act 'normal' enough for long enough to convince herself she was fine, and then quit. She also started drinking heavily, perhaps to self-medicate, which led to problems of its own (the impulsiveness of BPD combined with alcohol is not good). As kids get older, they become part of the equation, and in my case once they hit the teen years the conflict with the BPD parent will also become a problem for you to manage, besides your own personal struggles.  You will be caught in the middle, as it is almost certain that their relationship will be strained . For me, it finally escalated 2 years ago to physical violence and her being arrested for assaulting me. Ten years later from the time I discovered BPD, I look back at the many times I threatened to leave, or gave ultimatums, or tried to be supportive, or tough.  Would it have saved a lot of heartache for me and the kids if I'd left?  Probably...  Years go by fast in these relationships, and for many of us on these boards, who post year after year, nothing really changes. It's just a cycle.
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Popsie

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 17


« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2021, 01:20:47 AM »

Latrodge,
Thanks so much for your honest reply.  I very much appreciate you taking the time to respond to me and share your experience.  I am trying to come to terms with realizing the weight and reality of that never ending cycle you point out.  Did you divorce in the end or have you stayed together?  I am worried about protecting the kids now and also if we separate.  I can see it will be a lifetime of management and its daunting.

It's amazing that all my efforts over the years has only resulted in more conflict and chaos.  I know there are books and tools and ways I can learn to communicate with him better but in all honesty I feel so resentful that it is me, once again, who has to put in all the effort and make "changes" when he is so unwilling to change his behaviour (gaslighting, verbal abuse, name calling, mocking etc).  I realize logically this is part of the disorder but its a very hard pill to swallow.  I have this horrible feeling that I will put all that work in and anther 5 years will go by with me diligently applying what I've learned only to yield very little change.  

I guess when I really ask myself what I ultimately want, it is for my husband to be able to make room for my feelings, not be threatened by my preferences, hold empathy for me when I am struggling and not to make everything I say about him.  I'm kinda getting the idea that even if I do all the work, this is most certainly never going to happen.  

What has really opened my eyes to this reality recently is that my mother, whom i'm very close to, was diagnosed with early onset dementia and her memory loss is rapid and horrible.  Now I am really grieving the loss of who my mom used to be and the reality that she will pass away soon.  My husband is unable to offer empathy and to make matters much worse he actually picks fights with me even though he knows Im grieving and struggling.  He actually mocks me if I use the word "struggling."  He just cant put me ahead of his deep insecurities.  It's like he senses that I am struggling and then he feels unstable because of it and then treats me horribly because he feels so unhinged.  He sees me down and loses it.  I'm the one in the family who has to hold it all together or everything will fall apart and it is too much pressure to bare.  It is honestly hell to mourn but it is a special hell to mourn and be psychologically abused by the one person you are supposed to be able to lean on.

The other nail in the coffin for me is when I fast forward in my mind to old age.  What if I get dementia like my mom?  Can you imagine how he would treat me?  My mom's dementia has made her so difficult and grouchy and she is mean to my dad all the time.  Thankfully my dad is strong and able to control his reactions and hold empathy for her and what she is going through because he knows it's not about him. I see the way my dad takes care of my mom and it is so beautiful it brings me to tears. And I know in my heart there is absolutely no way my husband could care for me like that.  (If am being really honest with myself, he didn't even care for me after I gave birth to the kids.)  

I know some people who read this will think: if you value that then why wouldn't you take care of your husband when he suffers from BPD?  I ask myself this all the time.  The answer is, because my dad can't take care of my mom forever like this, nobody can, just like I can't take care of my husband for the next 40 years of his life.  I've cared for him for 15 years and I think it's all i have in me.  It is just too much to endure and I am so depleted.  

Not to mention, how are you supposed to feel romantic towards someone who shows you so little kindness?   who glares at you with such contempt, like you are disgusting?  How can i ever get back to that place of trust?

If i stay in this relationship I will be forever the caretaker and never cared for, never seen, never heard.

I could go on and on but i'll spare everyone and cut my self off here. Thank you for reading.
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Latrodge

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« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2021, 12:57:22 PM »

We are currently separated.  I was able to 'make it through' until our youngest was 18, but the relationship really deteriorated over the last 5 years.  My job kept me away from home a lot, so I think that was one thing that helped make it last.  Just a couple of comments/questions:

- Yes, it seems that most of the literature does revolve around the partner learning 'tools' of communication and validation to better or mitigate the situation. Barring a deep desire and commitment from the pwBPD to get help (which will likely take years), it does seem to be a one-way street for the relationship to work. Yes, we all can learn these things and apply them, but how much effort will that take?  And will it even be effective? I found it daunting, and I'm sure I made a lot of mistakes along the way in my responses to my W (both before and after learning about BPD).  I read a book review online for one of these books (about Caretaking, I believe), and this comment struck me: "do I really want to spend the rest of my life with someone who requires an instruction manual?"

-BPD is characterized by 'splitting', or periods of idealization and devaluation.  I admit, I did get idealization amongst the other stuff, which fed my ego at times and kept me in it.  It doesn't sound like you get much or any of that 'positive' side.

-Unfortunately, your kids' perception of YOU will be influenced by how they see you respond and interact with the pwBPD.  It will take work and communication to let them know that you really aren't an argumentative person by nature, but that you are drawn into senseless and heated arguments by your spouse. They will see that in due course as they grow up, but before they are old enough to process all of that, it can be confusing for them. Once my kids reached adolescence, they began to realize that my W had a problem, but before that they thought I was on-board with some of her more outrageous statements and disciplinary tactics.  The longer it goes on, the more it will take to unwind it...

Hope this helps.
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maxsterling
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Relationship status: living together, engaged
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« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2021, 02:37:24 PM »

In my experience and from what I've read here and other places, telling a person with BPD that they have it (or exhibit the traits), is not a step towards healing as we 'nons' would assume. To us it seems the response would be "thank God I now know what's wrong with me, thank you!, now I can get help". But that is not how they see it, it is an affront and can lead to increased conflict once they know that you know there is 'something wrong' with them.

Bingo.  My W was diagnosed BPD around 20 years ago.  She was in a hospital at the time following a suicide attempt and a serious self harming.   My understanding is that she was in a hospital for months.  I think at that time, in the 24/7 care of professionals, W accepted the diagnosis and DBT treatment.  She said it helped.  In the years since, she disputes the diagnosis, and I think it is in part due to negative stigma.  It blames her.  Instead, she has been diagnosed with PTSD from her childhood, and stands by that diagnosis.   BPD = internal.  PTSD = can blame the external.   The problem is that years of therapy has made W "wise" to the therapists, diagnoses, etc.  So now she rages about "needing validation", acts like she knows more than her T, etc. 

My point?  I doubt a BPD diagnosis will make a positive change in your H unless he sees the need himself to seek out the diagnosis and treatment.  In the case of my W - it was either accept the diagnosis and treatment or die.  Most pwBPD go about their whole lives thinking others are the problem, treating others horribly, and then wondering why they have no friends. 
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Popsie

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Romantic partner
Relationship status: Married
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« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2021, 10:52:08 AM »

Sorry for my delayed reply and thank you Latrodge and MaxSterling for your messages. 

  I read a book review online for one of these books (about Caretaking, I believe), and this comment struck me: "do I really want to spend the rest of my life with someone who requires an instruction manual?"

My honest answer is no, I don't want to.  I thought i was signing up for a romantic life long partnership.  If maintaining a functional relationship means I have to apply an instruction manual it really takes all the romance out of the relationship.  I feel very very sad about this realization.  Im definitely mourning the loss of the relationship I thought I would have. 

-BPD is characterized by 'splitting', or periods of idealization and devaluation.  I admit, I did get idealization amongst the other stuff, which fed my ego at times and kept me in it.  It doesn't sound like you get much or any of that 'positive' side.

Very interesting observation.  I think you are correct.  He only really does the 'idealization' thing when we are intimate, which doesn't happen anymore because I don't feel safe around him.


-Unfortunately, your kids' perception of YOU will be influenced by how they see you respond and interact with the pwBPD.  It will take work and communication to let them know that you really aren't an argumentative person by nature, but that you are drawn into senseless and heated arguments by your spouse. They will see that in due course as they grow up, but before they are old enough to process all of that, it can be confusing for them. Once my kids reached adolescence, they began to realize that my W had a problem, but before that they thought I was on-board with some of her more outrageous statements and disciplinary tactics.  The longer it goes on, the more it will take to unwind it...

Hope this helps.

Good points here.  I really hope they do learn that Im not an argumentative person.  When your teenagers realized your W had a problem, did they find out about the diagnosis of BPD?  I would imagine it would be hard to arm them with tools without telling them about the diagnosis?  But I also understand that a parent with BPD might not be ok with that and it could cause some major issues and backlash.  I just can't imagine keeping this "secret" from my kids their whole life.  I felt like our marriage counsellor kept her suspicion that my H has BPD to herself because she is not qualified to diagnose him but I sure wish she could have told me 5 years ago because then I could have informed myself of the tools  and given our relationship a better shot at surviving, or at the very least, avoided a lot of the fighting, distress, and confusion.  Knowledge is power as they say but there is a lot of weird secrecy with BPD that makes it difficult to give "nons" the power they need to survive the relationship without tremendous scars. 
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