Home page of BPDFamily.com, online relationship supportMember registration here
March 28, 2024, 08:12:30 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Board Admins: Kells76, Once Removed, Turkish
Senior Ambassadors: Cat Familiar, EyesUp, SinisterComplex
  Help!   Boards   Please Donate Login to Post New?--Click here to register  
bing
Things I couldn't have known
Emotional Blackmail: Fear, Obligation and Guilt (FOG)
Am I the Cause of Borderline Personality Disorder?
Escaping Conflict and the Karpman Drama Triangle
I think it's Borderline Personality Disorder, but how can I know?
90
Pages: [1]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Perspective from those in or further along in this journey  (Read 404 times)
Flora and Fauna

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 32



« on: February 27, 2021, 10:54:52 AM »

First post for me. Grateful to be here. 17-year old daughter has BPD. We've done DBT twice. History of self-harm. Three hospital stays. She has a wonderful therapist with whom she has a strong bond. Admits when she needs help. She starts college in the fall (in-person hopefully) and her therapist is happy to remain her therapist (through telehealth) which we know is a bit of incredible good fortune. She got into the college she really wanted. Her small high school has done an amazing job, so she is able to attend high school in person, and...

The last few months have been a roller coaster. What's new is that she has started raging at me with vile language if I say no to something. I've sought strategies from books and her therapist, and have through that and DBT - learned to disengage and withdraw from the conversation when she becomes this way. She then calms down, and several days later approaches me as though nothing has happened. Wants me to be funny around her friend (likes my sense of humor), and wants things from me, etc.

Ironically, I think she's slowed with the self-harming. Is this the result? Refraining from taking out her feelings on herself now means they're taken out on me?

This volatility is new. When she was younger, she'd apologize...she wasn't cursing at me then, *just* quick to anger. She could see it, and then she'd write a heart-felt note and seemed to have genuine empathy. Not any longer. Little to no remorse. Can admit that she was wrong to curse at me yet very much wants me to know she's not sorry about it.

What now?  This takes the joy out of my heart for her. She's about to graduate from high school. I did a "tribute page/ad" for her yearbook, during a time of calm. It took a few days to get the pictures and set it up on the page...during which time she started being cold to me...over something...I don't even know. I went ahead and sent the tribute page forward anyway...I didn't want to be petty, but no longer feeling the sentiments I'd written. The yearbook will be out in June. 

Re: rages, she of course is over the rage a day or so later, and wants/needs something from me, a ride to a friend's house, wanting to have her hair done, money...she turns into this sweet child, thanking me for everything, acknowledging that we've done things for her and saying, "mom when I have my job, I'll be able to do more for myself...you and dad have done so much for me."  And I'm just hollow...being asked to do things, being expected to be my usual self, funny and upbeat when she feels up to it, and wants to interact.

And I don't want to even be in the same room with her afterwards, which I know is normal. How could anyone want to be around a person that causes chaos and pain. I can't imagine being subjected to verbal abuse and moving on like it never happened.  Yet when it first started I tried doing just that; just grateful that it seemed to be over, yet knowing that all it would take is the next "no," to something, the next parenting decision that she decides is unjust - and it will happen again...and having to shore up the will to still parent the best way I know how and to not cop-out and just give in... when you know a decision could mean self-harm or a rage, or days of coldness.

I'm going to write a letter to her, that her therapist will read (daughter will not "allow" me to join sessions).

I'd appreciate thoughts about this. I'd love to write at some point, "as you emerge into adulthood, know that I won't stomach verbal abuse. I won't live with it in my home. For my own mental health, for my own self-preservation, you need to know that loving you, doesn't mean living a life with you."

Can't do that, right? Fear of abandonment all those things...yet where do I draw the line. How much do I sacrifice of myself for her? I already resent the approaching time where my husband and I will be paying for this very expensive college that months ago, I had so much joy about, for her. How do you keep giving, and bending over backwards and sacrificing yourself, when your child can spew such venom and hatred at you?

How do you bounce back?





Logged

*Flora and Fauna*
Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders
old97

*
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Other
Relationship status: Divorced - dating a woman who's daughter has BPD
Posts: 23


« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2021, 11:25:36 AM »

Hi Flora,

I was really touched by your post. So much of it resonated with me.

The idea of having a short memory when it comes to getting past tirades and abuse is a tough one. It's taken me a very long time to get to where I have any sort of success with it. I know that engaging on this board, and reading "Stop Walking on Eggshells" along with some of the resources available on this site have helped. I've come to realize that it's the disorder which is responsible for a lot of this behavior, and that has made it a little easier to...forgive? I'm not sure that's the right word. But I'm at least a bit more successful getting past my own anger and resentment.

In my case, knowledge has been power. Boundaries have been power. Self-care has been power. Interacting with others facing these issues has been power.

Keep posting, interacting, and learning. And concentrate on taking care of yourself!
Logged
Flora and Fauna

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 32



« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2021, 08:35:38 PM »

Hopefully I'm doing this correctly - to reply to you.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and reply. It brought tears to my eyes, finally being heard. Finding a place where I can admit how bad it gets. You've hit the nail on the head...I need work on getting over the resentment, after a rage.

It feels like I have to learn how to take a punch, so to speak. The challenge is that I perhaps innately know that no-one deserves to be talked to, the way she talks to me in a rage. Maybe I previously thought I was accepting she had BPD in the past, but even with all the turmoil, hospital stays, some public embarasment etc.,she hadn't truly raged. The sarcastic taunting, the making me wrong about "everything," the "going for the jugular" in purposely saying hurtful things, hadn't really happened. It was more about self-harm and crippling depression. I want to feel encouraged that there seems less of that, but how do you feel encouraged, when the new behavior is the venomous rage...?

My internal voice wants me to protect myself and says, "you shouldn't be in a relationship with verbal abuse"...yet the "relationship" is with my child. Not a spouse or a friend that would be "easier" to walk away from. I've started the boundary of disengaging and ending a conversation when it "goes south," yet isn't it possible that more boundaries will be necessary? Hard for me not to predict or forecast that things could get to a point where I  cannot live with my nearly -adult child. I shouldn't forecast, I know. Yet it seems realistic that now that the raging has started, I need to be prepared for it to continue.
Logged

*Flora and Fauna*
Sancho
Ambassador
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 706


« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2021, 08:49:07 PM »

The way you describe an outburst is exactly what I experience. I honestly can't believe the venom and vile language that pours out of my BPD's mouth when the slightest thing goes wrong. Every time it happens I get a real shock.

One of the big triggers is anything that raises my BPD's anxiety level. I'm wondering if this is the case with your daughter's impending movement to college. While it does correlate with saying 'No', the underlying issue could be building anxiety.

Has your daughter expressed how she feels about this step in her life? It is a huge step for anyone, but for someone with BPD it's off the scale.

Just a thought . . . . .
Logged
Flora and Fauna

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 32



« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2021, 09:21:00 PM »

That's a great question re: college.

From what I can see, she's very excited. She's creative (writing, acting) and she's going to a college that awarded her a "distinguished artist" scholarship...so big validation that's she's wanted by an institution that she so much wanted to be a part of.  I nearly called the college to thank them...it was such an important achievement for her, and the only college she wanted to attend. That was one great day for us.

She qualifies for a private room and even a small emotional support animal (she has a co-morbidity of Tourette's, because life is not interesting enough, right?). If anything, she is eager to get to college, but this might not mean that there is no anxiety/fear about it...thanks for putting that question on my radar...it's worth my being mindful about.
Logged

*Flora and Fauna*
KBug
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: living together part time
Posts: 78


« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2021, 10:57:21 PM »

Every situation is different but verbal abuse is a definite boundary for my husband and me.  A good therapist who understands BPD could help you figure out effective ways to set boundaries with your daughter. When my step daughter was younger (17-19), we would refuse to engage with her when she was being verbally abusive.  We would remind her that we will talk to her but that she must be civil.  If she violated that boundary, we would leave the room (sometimes the house). Now (ages 20-22) we tell her that she can go live with her mother (if she's living with us) or go to her mother's (if they are living together) if she can't be civil. We are careful never to yell and we are calm while she storms (therapy, meditation, and knowing that the outrageous behavior isn't about us helps a lot). The dialogue goes something like, "You seem to be very upset and you are [fill in the blank: yelling/using inappropriate language with us/etc]. We don't talk to you like that and we expect that you won't talk to us like that. We are willing to discuss _______ with you, but only if you will speak with us civilly." This works for us most of the time.  Usually we don't have to ask her to leave because she changes her tone and language, but it happens occasionally. It's important to be as dispassionate as possible when she's worked up. If we become highly emotional, it adds fuel to the fire. She gets really angry that she can't rile us up and will often angrily say, "Just because you're calm doesn't mean you're right," and I just respond, "I know." Acknowledging her pain and frustation without accepting responsibility for it is really important, too.  She often feels unheard and needs us to listen to her, even if she doesn't like that we don't agree with her.
Logged
Flora and Fauna

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 32



« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2021, 11:53:27 PM »

KBug - thank you for taking the time to respond. What you wrote was helpful.

I suppose what's challenging is that this is "new." Not the diagnosis, we've had that since she was 14, and she's now 17. It's the vile language. I thought we had somehow escaped the rage aspect of BPD as we hadn't seen it before with her. We had witnessed debilitating depression and anxiety, and saw the self-harm scars, but not the rage.

Do you ever feel as though you're not being true to yourself if you don't ...react in some way?  Not raging back - nothing like that, but if the next day or so, you're asked to do something for them...doesn't it feel odd to go on, as if those words weren't said to you? I feel like I'm coping out on myself, to "let" her say those horrible things, and *just* tell her not to talk to me that way or the conversation is over. It does de-escalate, but those words still sting.

It's like I see myself as a parent letting their child treat them in the most horrible of ways, and just saying, "oh the poor dear can't help it."  It's isolating because with the exception of my husband, I couldn't begin to explain that my daughter said the things she's said to me, to a friend.  I suppose I've got some work to do on my end as well.

Logged

*Flora and Fauna*
KBug
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: living together part time
Posts: 78


« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2021, 08:19:22 AM »

When I'm still feeling hurt the next day and she asks me to do something for her, I let her know that I am still hurting. I reassure her that I love her but that I need some time to heal.  I remind her that her actions and words affect other people. We've had some difficult discussions in the past about how her words and actions have consequences in her relationships. They have the ability to build relationship and trust or they can hurt people and/or erode trust. I let her know that I will always love her but sometimes I need to work on healing. I then often ask her what her therapist has suggested in terms of effectively communicating when she's feel angry or frustrated. This sometimes causes a second argument, but I'm finding that she is trying to apply her DBT skills more with us now (of course, not always-we still have some rages upon occasion).  Again, I try to be as dispassionate as I can when having this conversation.  I try to be 'a matter of fact' about it all. You can compassionately set and hold boundaries with people with BPD. The big thing for me has been to not take it so personally but also to help her more effectively interact with other people.  I want her to be as independent as possible because I can't live with her for the rest of my life.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 08:30:02 AM by KBug » Logged
Flora and Fauna

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 32



« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2021, 04:45:26 PM »

I've got to work on the dispassionate part. When she was young she'd write little notes apologizing and they were heart-felt...apparently getting older means remorse went away...I think I wouldn't miss it so much, if I were used to it. I understand little to no remorse is a hallmark of BPD, I get it. It's just odd that she had remorse as a younger child, and it went away. I suppose she has periods of remorse from time time at this point...now ain't the time. 

Do you have friends that some how grasp and understand this?  I'm ...embarrassed, and feel like I can't talk about it. Her depression or anxiety is "easy" enough to understand but cursing her mother out, hard for the average parent to comprehend.

Thanks for engaging me. Really has been helpful.
Logged

*Flora and Fauna*
KBug
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: living together part time
Posts: 78


« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2021, 08:58:38 PM »

People can be so judgy about parenting.  They just don't understand the challenges of parenting a kid (or adult) who struggles with mental illness. I get embarassed, too.  Over time, I've found through trial and error a couple of people I can talk to about it all.

The dispassionate part is hard and I sometimes get sucked into the drama against my better judgment.  The three Cs help me a lot: I didn't cause it, I can't control it, and I can't cure it. Also having been a middle school teacher taught me not to take emotional disregulation personally. Most middle schools struggle with big emotions from time to time.  I went to a workshop on supporting students with oppositional defiance disorder that really helped me to think differently about how I interact with people who are having emotional meltdown.  Most of the time, it's really not about you, although it impacts you. Battles of wills will almost always get ugly. Calmness, deep breathing, and talking myself down are also helpful.  Nothing good is going to happen if I engage with someone who's emotionally charged and pushing my buttons. I've learned to notice when I'm starting to gear up and then I talk myself down.  If I can't, I walk away if I can, saying something along the lines that I'm not in a good space to respond right now.  Unless it's a dangerous situation, you can come back with a response later.  I also don't sweat the small stuff and I realize that I can't control another person. 

I have to let her make her own mistakes and experience her own consequences. While she still has a place to live with us or her mother, I expect her to do as much as she can for herself and make her own decisions. I mostly keep my mouth shut about her life unless it impacts me, my husband, or her siblings. Then I set a boundary. 

When we do talk about things, I try to ask her questions to help her think about the issue and if she is seeking my opinion, I tell her.  However, I point out that she's an adult (22) and that she needs to do what she thinks is truly best for her in the long term.  For example, she went off her meds and is drinking a lot and smoking pot often. She talked to me about it and I told her about the research on how alcohol makes people more depressed and that there's some evidence that pot makes depression worse for some people.  I told her that she should talk to her prescriber about her meds and substance use.  I ask her about what she wants for her future and if what she's doing is helping or hurting her. I tell her that as an adult she has to make her own decisions and face her own consequences but other than providing room and board, we aren't going to save her from the consequences.  I point out that the choices that she is making has ended up with her in inpatient in the past which she hates.  In essence I'm saying that I told you what I think.  Take it or leave it, but it you make a bad decision, you are responsible.  When she comes to me after making a bad decision, I say something along the lines of "Wow.  That sounds really difficult. I'm sorry that this is so hard for you, Etc,  What are you going to do about it?/What might you do differently next time so that you don't have a similar outcome?" Don't own her behavior.

Logged
Flora and Fauna

*
Offline Offline

Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: Married
Posts: 32



« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2021, 09:06:32 PM »

You've given me some things to work with, thank you. So much of what you said resonates. In particular - when you mentioned that you'd want your daughter to be as independent as possible, as you do not want her to live with you indefinitely.  I remember (when my daughter was younger) feeling sad at the prospect of my daughter leaving home and going to college, now I see it as the space and the "breather" we need.

I remember when she went to a sleep away camp at 13. She was just starting to show some issues with depression months earlier, and had some big fears about going to sleep by herself (later turned into a kind of paranoia). Was fine as long as someone was in the room for her, so I knew she'd be fine at camp. The school year had been up and down, and I was a little frazzled as her mood seemed to dip to depressive lows and then she'd bounce back...no true borderline symptoms (that I knew of) yet. She was so excited to go to camp and had a great time. While she was gone I missed her, yet I couldn't help but notice that I slept more soundly and was more relaxed. As the time came for her to come home (six weeks later), I looked forward to seeing her, but remember feeling bad that I secretly was apprehensive about her return, knowing I'd be back on full-time duty and witness her shifts in mood.

She's started smoking pot. That's complicated...since she has Tourette's and it can help. I don't want her to rely on it, and at times I've seen an uptick in her smoking, but I've noticed her smoking less...I think it goes in cycles. I found beer in her room and when I confronted her, that is what sparked the first real rage. Wow. She was explosive. Her therapist spoke with her (thankfully that very day she had a session) and was able to point out the obvious: she's 17, and while she's a high school senior, she's ofcourse underaged for drinking, and a double whammy involves the medication (which she takes as prescribed) which shouldn't be combined with alcohol. Of course weed shouldn't be either...but right or wrong, we currently see the alcohol as more of a threat. The therapist seemed to get through to her, but I won't be so naïve as to think that was the end of it.

You really speak from a place of knowing...thanks again. I've also decided to look into a therapist for myself - just for the support factor.
Logged

*Flora and Fauna*
Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders
KBug
**
Offline Offline

What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: living together part time
Posts: 78


« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2021, 10:14:25 PM »

I'm soo glad that you are going to see a therapist. My therapist has really helped me. Good for you for taking care of yourself!
Logged
Can You Help Us Stay on the Air in 2024?

Pages: [1]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Our 2023 Financial Sponsors
We are all appreciative of the members who provide the funding to keep BPDFamily on the air.
12years
alterK
AskingWhy
At Bay
Cat Familiar
CoherentMoose
drained1996
EZEarache
Flora and Fauna
ForeverDad
Gemsforeyes
Goldcrest
Harri
healthfreedom4s
hope2727
khibomsis
Lemon Squeezy
Memorial Donation (4)
Methos
Methuen
Mommydoc
Mutt
P.F.Change
Penumbra66
Red22
Rev
SamwizeGamgee
Skip
Swimmy55
Tartan Pants
Turkish
whirlpoollife



Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2006-2020, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!