How to know it’s really over

[Depression = 72% of members]

My first post so apologies if I muck it up . My partner (well ex) and I have recently split after a 3 year rollercoaster. It’s probably too much info for one post but there’s been a lot of ups and downs , we’ve both been very controlling over one another , there’s been a lot of abuse both verbal and physical but mostly mental torture ,  although we did get past the physical side of it so I’d say that’s not really relevant now (it wasn’t that bad , mainly pushing and pulling during arguments) we’ve broken up and got back soo many times I’ve given her chance after chance she suffers from BPD and I’m very educated on the condition and how best to help her etc I love her deeply more than I’ve ever loved anyone, but she has such a cold side . I have a 7 year old to think about whom I coparent with my ex from a previous relationship. My partner who I will call “sheila” false name , does not accept my relationship with my ex - I occasionally need to drive her to Asda or if our daughter has a competition we all go Sheila include , as I’m the only driver and it makes sense rather than my ex getting the train on her own or with my daughter . But Sheila just makes it unbearable she says things like if you speak to your ex about anything that’s unnecessary then it’s over - what she means by unnecessary is anything that doesn’t directly concern my daughter . So basically every time we see my ex it’s a nightmare and given that we coparent equally I do need to see her quite a lot . For the sake of giving you the bigger picture there is and never will be any feelings or anything between my ex and I we were together 10 years we have a beautiful daughter and when the relationship ended we were more like best friends / sisters there was nothing there at all and hadn’t been for at least 4 years . So Sheila had nothing to worry about .
The relationship itself was completely loaded we both had a sense that we would do anything for one another , we always put eachother first , we had a deep deep connection, I feel that she loves me more than anyone ever has , it’s got to the point where I’m ashamed to say this for the first time ever but it’s like I’m only truly happy when “we” are happy and things are good . When things are bad I’m depressed . Even while we’ve been split for a good month and a half now , we’ve been going through cycles of being close and then not and even now when we’re getting along and stuff I notice that heavy feeling of despair has lifted and I’ve got a spring in my step and laughing at things - I know that’s not right at all . She’s been saying for weeks that it’s over and she doesn’t want to be with me doesn’t want to try again she wants to move out etc , she’s arranged a flat , got a job , she’s got social media (we came off social media together due to trust issues at the beginning) she’s been sat talking to people every night while I’ve sat there feeling so lost and vulnerable and stupid it’s been mental torture. I’ve not got much support due to not having social media and only a couple of friends that Sheila was happy for me to have . I’ve been saying that I want us to to to therapy to see if the relationship can be fixed . Finally yesterday completely out the blue after treating me like a ghost for weeks she comes on all strong wanting to cuddle and kiss and acting like nothings wrong , me missing her so much was pleased to finally be given some attention but I know it’s wrong it doesn’t feel genuine and she’s meant to pick up the keys to her flat tomorrow , today she’s saying she wants to go to therapy and everything will be fine . I’m at the stage now where this relationship has effected my whole life , my dad doesn’t speak to me , my mum has given Sheila chance after chance , it would break my poor mums heart if I get back into the relationship. I’ve even been to therapy for myself during this time and my therapist is of the opinion that I need to stay out the relationship and move on . Logic and sense say stay away let her move out she’s bad for my mental health , but there’s that internal voice screaming at me that no1 understands what we’ve been through together and I love her so so much it hurts it feels like no1 else gets it like no1 else has ever experienced a love and connection so powerful . Any advice appreciated yes I’m fragile but I need brutal honestly . Should she stay and we can try again or is it just far too toxic ? So much has happened my heads a mess .
It’s probably also worth saying that she thinks that I’m the one who needs to change she thinks my co parenting relationship isn’t normal I don’t even know what she wants me to change but one of her bPD traits is that she tries to blame me for everything and she believes I really do need to change presumably to get back to what she idealises me as which isn’t possible . Sorry for the long post the scary thing is that’s not even the half of it there’s so much that’s gone on and all I wanted was a nice stress free relationship .

[LilJ]

My first post so apologies if I muck it up . My partner (well ex) and I have recently split after a 3 year rollercoaster. It’s probably too much info for one post but there’s been a lot of ups and downs , we’ve both been very controlling over one another , there’s been a lot of abuse both verbal and physical but mostly mental torture ,  although we did get past the physical side of it so I’d say that’s not really relevant now (it wasn’t that bad , mainly pushing and pulling during arguments) we’ve broken up and got back soo many times I’ve given her chance after chance she suffers from BPD and I’m very educated on the condition and how best to help her etc I love her deeply more than I’ve ever loved anyone, but she has such a cold side . I have a 7 year old to think about whom I coparent with my ex from a previous relationship. My partner who I will call “sheila” false name , does not accept my relationship with my ex - I occasionally need to drive her to Asda or if our daughter has a competition we all go Sheila include , as I’m the only driver and it makes sense rather than my ex getting the train on her own or with my daughter . But Sheila just makes it unbearable she says things like if you speak to your ex about anything that’s unnecessary then it’s over - what she means by unnecessary is anything that doesn’t directly concern my daughter . So basically every time we see my ex it’s a nightmare and given that we coparent equally I do need to see her quite a lot . For the sake of giving you the bigger picture there is and never will be any feelings or anything between my ex and I we were together 10 years we have a beautiful daughter and when the relationship ended we were more like best friends / sisters there was nothing there at all and hadn’t been for at least 4 years . So Sheila had nothing to worry about .
The relationship itself was completely loaded we both had a sense that we would do anything for one another , we always put eachother first , we had a deep deep connection, I feel that she loves me more than anyone ever has , it’s got to the point where I’m ashamed to say this for the first time ever but it’s like I’m only truly happy when “we” are happy and things are good . When things are bad I’m depressed . Even while we’ve been split for a good month and a half now , we’ve been going through cycles of being close and then not and even now when we’re getting along and stuff I notice that heavy feeling of despair has lifted and I’ve got a spring in my step and laughing at things - I know that’s not right at all . She’s been saying for weeks that it’s over and she doesn’t want to be with me doesn’t want to try again she wants to move out etc , she’s arranged a flat , got a job , she’s got social media (we came off social media together due to trust issues at the beginning) she’s been sat talking to people every night while I’ve sat there feeling so lost and vulnerable and stupid it’s been mental torture. I’ve not got much support due to not having social media and only a couple of friends that Sheila was happy for me to have . I’ve been saying that I want us to to to therapy to see if the relationship can be fixed . Finally yesterday completely out the blue after treating me like a ghost for weeks she comes on all strong wanting to cuddle and kiss and acting like nothings wrong , me missing her so much was pleased to finally be given some attention but I know it’s wrong it doesn’t feel genuine and she’s meant to pick up the keys to her flat tomorrow , today she’s saying she wants to go to therapy and everything will be fine . I’m at the stage now where this relationship has effected my whole life , my dad doesn’t speak to me , my mum has given Sheila chance after chance , it would break my poor mums heart if I get back into the relationship. I’ve even been to therapy for myself during this time and my therapist is of the opinion that I need to stay out the relationship and move on . Logic and sense say stay away let her move out she’s bad for my mental health , but there’s that internal voice screaming at me that no1 understands what we’ve been through together and I love her so so much it hurts it feels like no1 else gets it like no1 else has ever experienced a love and connection so powerful . Any advice appreciated yes I’m fragile but I need brutal honestly . Should she stay and we can try again or is it just far too toxic ? So much has happened my heads a mess .
It’s probably also worth saying that she thinks that I’m the one who needs to change she thinks my co parenting relationship isn’t normal I don’t even know what she wants me to change but one of her bPD traits is that she tries to blame me for everything and she believes I really do need to change presumably to get back to what she idealises me as which isn’t possible . Sorry for the long post the scary thing is that’s not even the half of it there’s so much that’s gone on and all I wanted was a nice stress free relationship .

[kells76]

Hey, welcome to the group, LilJ!

You're doing great with the post. No mucking up at all. This is a place where you can feel really free to be yourself, however that looks. No judgement.

A lot of what you've talked about sounds so awfully familiar -- jealousy, controlling who you "can" and "can't" interact with and how, "all or nothing" thinking, and that jaw-dropping switch between "we're over and it's your fault" back to "I love you so much, let's be together" in the blink of an eye.

So glad to hear you've been to therapy. Having a strong support system is crucial when there are pwBPD (persons with BPD) in our lives, especially when it's someone close. Are you still seeing your T and keeping that up?

Any advice appreciated yes I’m fragile but I need brutal honestly . Should she stay and we can try again or is it just far too toxic ? So much has happened my heads a mess .

Great question.

What would you need to see in the relationship, and for how long, for you to decide it's worth it? You could be really specific -- for example, "I'd need there to be no name calling for 6 days out of 7, for a month". Or, "my value is that in a relationship, both partners are open to therapy". Or, "for me to stay in this relationship, there needs to be no negative talk about my coparenting choices for 90% of coparenting conversations".

Then, think about what seems realistic. Do you think your partner shares those values? How would it go for you to have some boundaries around those values -- for example, "When someone calls me names, I leave the room and I don't participate".

Think about your partner's track record in the past, and how she may or may not change in the future, as you perhaps have stronger boundaries about what you accept in a relationship. That might give you some "aha!" moments about whether you can try again, or what your "red line" is for knowing you've done as much as you can and it's just not sustainable.

Keep posting whenever works for you.

Glad you're here;

kells76

[LilJ]

Sorry for the delayed reply I couldn’t figure out how to find my post

[LilJ]

I’m not sure if I’m doing something wrong with my replies but I wrote a very long reply to kells76 and it’s only showing me the first couple of lines I don’t know if everyone else can see the whole message or if it’s somehow deleted?

[kells76]

That's OK, no worries about the delay.

I've heard from some other members that if your session is set to "time out" after a certain amount of time, then if it times out while you're typing a post, you can lose the post. This might also happen if you lose internet connection in the middle of typing. So, maybe check out those possibilities?

Some members will copy/paste their in-process post to a notepad app or something. Just depends how secure your setup is. The pwBPD in my life is my husband's ex, so I'm not super worried she's going to barge in and get on the computer,   but others have more security concerns.

Hope that helps...

kells76

[LilJ]

Ah right I think I maybe did loose signal that makes sense . Thanks so much for your help kells76

[LilJ]

I think I maybe just take too long to reply ! That makes sense what your saying - I think in order for the relationship to be worth it for me the abuse would need to stop and we could establish clear boundaries and both attend therapy together . From past behaviour and cycles I’d say she’s highly unlikely to be able to do this . It’s very difficult coming to terms with my mental health is so low . I don’t have strong boundaries unfortunately I’m just a shadow of the person I was 3 years ago before I met her . I used to be so strong and never been in a toxic relationship before . I’ve lost 2 stone since Christmas with the stress and Just been put on Prozac for depression- I finally spoke to the doctor about what’s been going on. I’ve been feeling so alone and hopeless.

[Lucky Jim]

I think in order for the relationship to be worth it for me the abuse would need to stop and we could establish clear boundaries and both attend therapy together . From past behaviour and cycles I’d say she’s highly unlikely to be able to do this .

Hey LilJ,  On some level, you already know that the outcome you seek is unrealistic, in which case I would say that it's time to let go.  Put yourself first for a change.  Be kind to yourself.  Your health is paramount.  Abuse is unacceptable.  Leaving is painful, I understand, but staying in an unhealthy r/s is much more painful over time.

LuckyJim

[LilJ]

Thanks for your supportive words luckyJim - I know my head knows that I need to let go but I’m just finding it so hard the tears are coming as I write this . It’s just absolute torture I don’t know how to disengage / switch off from it . We still live together and she goes between acting like I’m not there to asking if I’m okay ( cue me crying ) and then she cuddles me and then it’s almost like I can see is being able to fix it she starts acting all kind and caring and then without warning she flicks back to just acting like I’m nothing .

[kells76]

Hey LilJ...

It’s just absolute torture I don’t know how to disengage / switch off from it .

That's OK to be in that space right now, of not knowing how to disengage from the cycle. That's why we're here, that's why you're here... to learn some new/different tools and skills. When the time is right and you feel like you have the emotional resources, you might try some of them. You'll know when you feel up for it. It's OK to just feel what you feel right now. What's great is that you recognize that it is a cycle that you could disengage from.

Hearing about your SO's behaviors reminded me of this concept (from this short thread https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=61921.0 ):

Intermittent Reinforcement

In behaviorism, Intermittent Reinforcement is a conditioning schedule in which a reward or punishment (reinforcement) is not administered every time the desired response is performed. This differs from continuous reinforcement which is when the organism receives the reinforcement every time the desired response is performed. For example, on a continuous reinforcement schedule a mouse who pulls a lever would receive food (reinforcement) every single time it pulled the lever. On an intermittent reinforcement schedule the mouse would only receive food every few times (it is typically random and unpredictable). There is an increased likelihood the desired behavior will continue with intermittent reinforcement conditioning and the behavior lasts longer than continuous reinforcement. Gambling is an example of intermittent reinforcement. You don't win every time or win the same amount when using a slot machine- this wouldn't be exciting or fun. The reinforcement is intermittent and causes a positive and euphoric response in the brain that in some circumstances can lead to gambling addiction.

What's your perspective? Does this seem similar to your dynamic, or different, or other?

hugs,

kells76

[LilJ]

Omg ! Kells76 I did not know intermittent reinforcement was a thing but it completely absolutely makes sense 100% thanks for sharing that thread . That’s literally my life that’s what she’s been doing all along . I’m addicted to the randomness of it even now while we’re split up I drove her to the supermarket earlier and I sat in the car while she went in , while she was inside the shop I checked in to here to see if any1 had replied and I got upset reading / thinking about it and when she came in the car I was visibly upset and teary she asked what’s wrong I said nothing I’m just a bit emotional... her usual response is “do you want a hug?) but tonight it was like she was angry that I didn’t pour my heart out to her and tell her my every thought and feeling so instead she told me she had forgotten something in the supermarket and asked me to go in to get it . No hug . And when I came back to the car she didn’t ask how I was she just didn’t care at all .

[LilJ]

Something I’m struggling with is my mind keeps rapidly churning thoughts that range from ...
- I’m doing the right thing
- what if she’s my soulmate ?
- maybe we could fix it
- I can’t let her go I might never feel that connection again
- I have to let her go for my mental health and my daughter
Every time I think I’ve made up my mind I realise that I’ve not and half the time I feel like I’m going crazy in fact sometimes I feel like I’ve got bp traits as well . From reading up about BPD and reading through some things on here I think it’s pretty clear that I’ve become co dependant , and addicted to her and our relationship. I always say to people when they tell me I need to leave that it’s like she’s 2 different people the Jekyll and Hyde , she can be the most loving person ever and when that other personality comes out I’ve even been addicted to helping her get through it and it’s like the reward Is when the loving person comes back . I really do love her so much I fear that If I don’t let her go this time then I’ll never do it and my life will just be hell and get worse and worse . 

[Goosey]

I got no advise.
I’m just very sorry for your pain.
You have a child that needs you. That’s a focal point that’s clear.

[LilJ]

Thanks goosey yes she does , I’m trying to focus on her but then my mind tricks me into thinking that maybe it would be better for her if I tried to mend the relationship because she loves her she’s been in her life for almost 3 years now . Thankfully she’s never witnessed anything which I’ve always said if she ever did then that would be it .

[Lucky Jim]

it’s like she’s 2 different people the Jekyll and Hyde , she can be the most loving person ever and when that other personality comes out I’ve even been addicted to helping her get through it and it’s like the reward Is when the loving person comes back

Hey LilJ, Exactly!  The reality is that, when someone suffers from BPD, it's impossible to have a r/s solely with Dr. Jekyll, as much as we like to think it can be done.  Mr. Hyde always rears his head, which is why a BPD r/s runs in cycles.  It does feel great when our SO returns to his/her kind, loving self, but it's only temporary.

LJ