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Author Topic: Trying to resist being pulled under by my mother.  (Read 559 times)
Goldcrest
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« on: October 24, 2021, 03:59:12 AM »

Hey all, as some of you know my dad died a week ago and I'm back home. I live a good 200 miles from my mother and have been calling her every morning while my brother speaks to her in the evening. She has help and support coming out of her ears and the next door neighbour (the daughter she never had) is constantly back and forth running errands and even picking out the clothes for my fathers coffin.

I'm struggling guys. This morning I spoke to her after a really bad night of anxiety and frustration and grief for me. I told her how I was feeling but as usually my feelings were dismissed and she talked endlessly about being alone, not coping and full blown waif type stuff. I know when my mother is playing me because I get angry and start hiding the phone under cushions so I can just hear her voice but not hear it. I pull the phone back to my ear when I hear silence and make the appropriate sounds of confirmation that I'm listening. I was so sick with the stress of it that I told her I can't call her tomorrow because I am working, which is true. She became cold and said okay, i'll speak to you sometime in the week - she knows I will call her again Tuesday. I replied no mum I will call Tuesday. To that she said goodbye then in a wavering voice and I just put the phone down in frustration while she started to say something. I know now that the flying monkeys will be given reports of my playing up while she is grieving etc. I am cast in the family as the difficult one, overly sensitive and emotional and useless with anything difficult. Yet...I was the one that confronted my fathers death at the hospital with her. Anyway you all know what I am saying.

My dad always dangled carrots of financial help and I think I took that as his love but actually when you went to take the carrot he would pull it back. Even so I spent my life believing that one day I would have financial security. I think money is a big issue for me and I need to explore it more in therapy which I have set up to happen in the next few weeks. I know that partly I support my mum because I can't bear to know she is pain, sometimes my mum can tell you you are wonderful, strong, kind etc. She can make you feel like you are a good daughter but as soon as you separate and I return to my limited life she becomes cold again and everyone else is amazing but I am leaving her to cope alone.

Sorry this is a bit of a pain dump but I have taken a lot of comfort from the community here and knowing someone will come along and validate my experience. Thank you.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2021, 07:27:50 AM »

Please be good to yourself. It's normal to be an emotional wreck in this situation. You have just lost a father, regardless of what kind of relationship you had with him. I was an emotional hot mess when this happened. Please allow yourself to feel what you feel.

This is a time for SELF CARE.  When you are in this emotional state, you are not able to take on the job of being an emotional support to any other adult. Unless you also have children, the only person you are obligated to take care of emotionally at the moment is YOU. Your mother and her flying monkeys may not understand it. You may be the villain of the moment. But you can't change their thinking, they will think what they think.

The response from my BPD mother was similar. If I mentioned I was sad because I lost a father, her response was "well I lost a husband". She took center stage as the grieving widow. He FOO and friends rallied around her. This is what she does because it's all she knows how to do.

There is a statement I learned in 12 step groups " don't go to an empty well to drink". I realized there's no point trying to tell my mother how I felt- if she isn't able to manage her own emotions, how could I expect any empathy from her for mine? Also don't take this personally. It's not that you are not worthy of someone caring about you, it's that your mother can't do it, and neither can her flying monkeys.

My mother said terrible things about me to others, as well as the flying monkeys. We can't change what they will think but you don't have to listen to it.

I had to pull back from the family drama. You have enough to deal with with your own feelings. Don't look to them for permission to take care of yourself. When you are trying to deal with your own difficult feelings you too are not capable of taking on hers. She will still come to your emotional well to drink but if you too are low on emotional reserve, you don't have much to give her. You have to fill your well before you have any to share.

When you are upset emotionally- do not call her or anyone in her circle. When she tries to call you for support - let her know you will call later but can't call now ( do this by text and then don't answer the phone). Get some support- where you feel you can- from counseling, 12 step groups, clergy, grief support group- whatever is available to you and what you feel comfortable with. Talk to friends who care about you.

Self care also includes doing things for you. Take a walk, cook something you like to eat. Watch funny movies on TV. Call a friend, go for coffee.

For you right now, YOU are the first priority. Take care of you.
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zachira
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« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2021, 08:03:34 AM »

It is so hard to know when to be supportive of your mother and when to implement self care which could be not having contact with your mother. I found it helped to make all conversations with my mother one sided; I let her talk about herself and volunteered nothing about myself. Exploring the financial promises your father made with a therapist is a good idea. I know the financial promises my mother made have kept me enmeshed with my family and resulted in endless pain with the family after my mother passed away. You want to be there for your mother because you are a kind and caring person, and you are still a kind and caring person if you aren't there for her, and instead put your self care first. You still are the same person when you set healthy boundaries with someone who mistreats you, and reserve your kindness and caring for safe people and safe situations.
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Methuen
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« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2021, 10:45:29 AM »

Excerpt
When you are upset emotionally- do not call her or anyone in her circle.  you are upset emotionally- do not call her or anyone in her circle.
This. I remember just looking at my T blankly when she very directly told  me not to interact with my mom when I was an emotional wreck.  Instead, it is a time for self care.  NW and Zachira have offered great advice here.  What do you think about sending her a short text or email which says something like this:  I am unwell right now and have been advised that I need to take some time to get better.  I will let you know when I  am feeling better, and will call again.  Then let her sit with that.

My heart skipped a beat when you said you were calling her every morning.  I used to do that.  I know what is going on here and it will suck the life out of you.  I had to pull away.  Trust me when I say your mother has all the skills she needs to find a replacement to caretake her emotions.  I still do a ton for my mom, but I have made the transition away from being her emotional caretaker.  It’s called differentiating.

If she calls, texts or emails do not reply.  Block her if you need to.  Like others have said, it is time to take care of you.  

I also made an appointment to see my family dr, and received full-on support, unexpectedly.  Being validated by a doctor was a turning point for me.  He understood, and gave me great advice. 

Allow yourself space from her right now.  You have much to grieve, and need space to do it.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2021, 10:52:14 AM by Methuen » Logged
Goldcrest
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« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2021, 11:21:11 AM »

Thank you @Notwendy, @Methuen and @zachira I know you are all absolutely right and I take comfort from hearing it.

I was doing really well with her before my dad died I had got her to speaking once a week and texting most days. Prior to that when she was diagnosed with cancer I had been speaking twice daily and frankly it was slowly killing me. I think telling her that I won't call tomorrow due to work was the first boundary (bar refusing to get involved in my dads financial affairs) that I have put in after dads death and she is probably kicking against this and fears I will abandon her completely. The death of my dad was a big a trauma bond with her because it was just us together at the hospital and I felt as if I was the mother a lot. We were making decisions together and when they said his organs were failing she simply could not take it in so I had to take her to a quite place (the chapel) and explain what we had been told. I had to comfort her.

I am struggling to let go myself if I am honest. I feel that if I know she is okay I can be okay. I haven't felt this level of responsibility for her feelings in years and I wonder if that is because my dad has gone and I think I have the gift to make it all better which of course I haven't. I've regressed to my child self which thinks if I can make mummy happy then I can be happy. My grief is getting caught up in hers.

@zachira I agree about not talking about myself but it is particularly hard at the moment. When we were in the hospital experiencing our grief together...the awful experience of my dad dying before us...I took that for some sort special thing we had shared and that it might mean she would treat me differently because she would know I had suffered his loss too.

I am going to not call her first thing in the morning and yes slowly drop to calling every other day then every third. She loves texts but never replies to them because she claims she doesn't know how. I feel really sorry for her! I can't seem to feel angry for any length of time at the moment and the anger is usually what helps me to maintain my boundary.

Sorry I'm all over the place. Just a really bad day today but it will pass.
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« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2021, 09:17:44 AM »

I can relate. Of course most of us here can relate in one way or another. When my enabler Dad got sick and passed away 6 years ago, my health took a nosedive. It was just like in the book, the body keeps the score. When one person poisons the well, everybody gets sick. It's been 6 years, and her raging is on the decline since she doesn't have my Dad to enlist, but her manipulation and "waifness" is exponentially worse. What I did was find a T, and took a workshop specifically designed for people with a Borderline family member. I thought I "knew" everything there was to know about BPD but having my Dad pass away brought my uBPDm's behavior to a fevered pitch, and I desperately needed help to get through each day. It is getting better. Her behavior is not, but I am shifting the focus from taking the bait to be her emotional caretaker to focusing on a more balanced life which has me in the forefront surrounded by a small circle of friends and family.
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« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2021, 09:21:41 AM »

Goldcrest,
One more thing. I am sorry for your loss.
You see, the focus on my post was primarily about my Mom after the loss of my Dad. That's what having a Mom with borderline has done to me, put her in the forefront, but the focus should be on the individual in need at the time, not just the narcissistic person who is making everything all about them. Take time to grieve, do self care, and take care.
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Flossy
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« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2021, 09:31:15 AM »

Grab onto the fact that she loves getting texts. Every time you dont want to talk to her, but feel torn, send a text. Keep them light. "Thinking of you Mum. Go make yourself a lovely cup of tea". Or " I would make you a cuppa if I was there, so go make a cuppa and sit and take a breather Mum".

Take heart that you dont get a reply, that is some headspace time for you.

Remember, you could be there 24/7, check on her every ten minutes, cook for her and even clean her house, it wouldn't be enough to make her show gratitude of appreciation. So it's a bottomless pit. Only give enough to get away with what you can and reduce it as it feels right.
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-Lost my son to CF age 20 - 20 yrs ago
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-Now I no longer want her in my life
-Have not seen my grandson since he was 6, he is 20
Goldcrest
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« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2021, 07:43:42 AM »

@Flossy and @madeline7 thank you both again really helpful responses. I agree texting is much better for me and I can do those as often as needed as I know she will read and re-read them to reassure herself.

Yesterday not calling her allowed me to have a really good cry before work without it being sort of interrupted by her stuff. I was almost worried I wouldn't be able to do my job but I told myself dad would want me to work and was always pleased to hear my business was doing well.

This morning mum started on about how amazing the neighbour had been (the daughter she never had) and I broke down in tears (I couldn't help it) a mixture of anger and hurt and for the first time she APOLOGISED. I told her how she was making me feel and she said she was sorry and that her mother had done the same to her. She was still a bit defensive but I was able to help her to see - by reflecting how it felt when her mother ran her down - that I could possibly be feeling the same. So progress.
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Methuen
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« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2021, 09:10:53 AM »

.
This morning mum started on about how amazing the neighbour had been (the daughter she never had) and I broke down in tears (I couldn't help it) a mixture of anger and hurt and for the first time she APOLOGISED. I told her how she was making me feel and she said she was sorry and that her mother had done the same to her. She was still a bit defensive but I was able to help her to see - by reflecting how it felt when her mother ran her down - that I could possibly be feeling the same. So progress.
yes, but be cautious .  The other side of this coin is that you’ve now confirmed that her behavior “gets to you”.  Wait to see if, in the future, when she emotionally dysregulates, anything  actually changes, or if she continues with this pattern because she can’t help herself when she’s dysregulating.  The disease is still there.  On the other hand, today she showed a level of self awareness that is quite remarkable.  Definitely something to celebrate. 
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Goldcrest
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« Reply #10 on: October 26, 2021, 11:39:56 AM »

@Methuen I hear you and yes she will do this, she'll will tell the neighbour I got upset, am jealous of her and also tell her good friend - who will be going to the funeral home to see the body with her today. She'll frame it waif style but I also think she understands her actions have consequences...I hope she can marry it to her own experience of not being good enough in her mum's eyes. I felt better for getting upset but I also know I might feel crap again tomorrow if she is low in the morning and the conversation goes dark. The uptick in my mood is always worrying and sad. If we argue and find a resolution I am happy, if she pulls me down with sniping I feel crap all day.
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Methuen
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« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2021, 02:06:26 PM »

I also know I might feel crap again tomorrow if she is low in the morning and the conversation goes dark. The uptick in my mood is always worrying and sad. If we argue and find a resolution I am happy, if she pulls me down with sniping I feel crap all day.
I can really relate to this.  It has been a slow but surprising revelation to me the last couple of years to become aware of how my internal wellness and or low feelings (or even frustration or despair) parallel my mother's moods exactly.  It is even more surprising now that I can see this pattern, that I used to be oblivious to it (for over 50 years).  !  In a failed romantic relationship, couples come to terms with separation or divorce.  I have come to see that as son's/daughter's of BPD parents (who trained us to be their emotional caretakers), our job in our personal recovery journey is to separate our emotions from those of our parents, so that they are no longer parallel, if that makes sense.  Only then can we become autonomous and whole again.  Let them have their feelings.  Let us have ours.  Let them be different.  Let this be ok.  I think that is my new motto.  It's a process and I'm still working on it, but I think I've made progress (at least I think so today).  What do you think about this?
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Notwendy
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« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2021, 06:20:13 AM »

The Karpman triangle dynamics helped me to understand my mother's behavior. Still, it's hurtful but it helped me to not take it as personally. When your mother says bad things about you to her neighbor, she's enlisting the neighbor as her rescuer.

I have tended to be my mother's scapegoat child. It's also been a conflict of interest for her, since she wants a relationship with "her grandchildren" as she calls them. So she has tried to maintain some sort of relationship with me, on her terms. I have gone NC with her due to having to distance myself emotionally. However, if I don't comply with her in her terms, she is verbally and emotionally cruel.

I think it comes down to self care for you. Do what you are willing to do, but if it "isn't enough" that's not your fault. It seems that no matter what I have done or do, it's not enough as far as my mother is concerned. Yes, it's hurtful. There's grief in that. It's a certain kind of grief to lose a parent- but with my mother, it's more as if she doesn't act like parent and there is grief in that too.

Take care of yourself at this difficult time.

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Goldcrest
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« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2021, 01:17:32 AM »

 @Methuen thank you. Yes, since my mothers diagnosis and the twice daily calls in the beginning I started to slowly admit to a pattern, that talking to her would completely destabilise me. I started reading about Dialectical behaviour therapy and emotional dysregulation and though I was looking to find out more about her I started to see my own difficulties. I could see that when triggered by her or something I found threatening I would get very agitated even sometimes quietly so in my head - ruminating. Once I could step back from my emotional response I could start to regulate it and question it. Sometimes I am too late to talk myself down but I am getting better. I think when I feel sorry for her I have located my wounds in her and I think she is feeling what I am feeling but actually I started to ask myself..."how can I know what she is feeling". I am not her.

@Notwendy YES! the drama triangle first became apparent to me with regards to my husbands family. I have got very pulled under by them at times as I got addicted to the rescuer role. When I was dealing with my mothers illness and very stressed in my relationship to my husband, his family didn't pick up cues to back off or support me. They just kept coming with their problems about each other. Neither one talking directly to the other but I would get involved and realised I was enjoying the status of being needed but hating the duplicity of hearing the criticisms...and at times also being the persecutor. I am now no contact with his family. Layered into all of this is the fact that I am separating from my husband after 25 years because our relationship isn't happy anymore. We are still very close, love and support each other but it is not a romantic relationship and hasn't been for many years. I long for a romantic love but I worry I am too damaged. Hopefully going back to therapy will put me back on my feet. Thank you.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2021, 05:59:00 AM »

It makes sense that being rescuers gives us a sense of security- as children, we learned it through family dynamics. Then, we attracted people who were attracted to rescuers, and also were attracted to people who needed that- and learned that these behaviors- while they may have been what we needed to do in our FOO's- were dysfunctional in adult relationships. They seemed "normal" to us growing up. Therapy can help us understand this and make changes.

The title of your thread- "resisting the pull"- part of this is our own feelings of being overly responsible. My BPD mother needs to be in control and so, is frustrating her medical and care team. She also doesn't cooperate with her own children when we try to help. Yet, somehow, I still feel I should succeed at what even professionals have not been able to do- get her to cooperate with the actual help offered her- which is in her best interest. But I can't change her- she has to decide to cooperate. The child emotional pull for me is to do what I can to "make Mommy happy" but I so far have not succeeded as much as I have tried.

In my 12 step groups we have a saying "don't go to an empty well to drink". Consider that if someone can't manage their own feelings - they aren't likely to be able to be empathetic to others. Yet, we have times of emotional upset as well- times like what you are going through. Self care is important and that also included finding emotional support for you, through counseling, being with trusted friends- whatever works for you.




« Last Edit: October 28, 2021, 06:11:52 AM by Notwendy » Logged
Goldcrest
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« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2021, 07:40:48 AM »

 @Notwendy thank you. I have isolated myself from friendships lately so work to do there but I agree about something you said in a previous response about the grief of never being parented. I do grieve that every day and I look at all the texts I send my mother and I am like the perfect mother, the mother I would have wanted. I am learning to self parent but yes there are days when I resent it and just want someone to come and take care of me. To tell me I am good enough, to validate my experience etc. My dad's death has made me see that I held on to the fantasy waiting for the day he would "see" me and give me what I wanted. To be treasured by him. I've put my life on hold for too long waiting and now I must live in reality and make my own security.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2021, 11:41:34 AM »

I held on to the fantasy waiting for the day he would "see" me and give me what I wanted. To be treasured by him.


Exactly- I tried so much too. He was my hero. I was a Daddy's girl. I wanted him to validate me. Yet my mother, whose behavior would not be tolerated if I did it, could do no wrong.

I excelled in school, in ways that would make a parent proud. He had a good relationship with my children- they loved their grandfather. And I tried my best to do what he asked me to do, until I had enough of my mother's verbal and emotional abuse. Apparently I was not expected to have boundaries.

I don't think I would have stopped trying to get him to "see" me- the real me, the good intentions I had, to validate me, until it was no longer possible.

I don't have any expectations that my mother can see beyond her own projections. I did hope my father could.

You ARE good enough, the way you are. I hope you can believe that.





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Goldcrest
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« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2021, 12:37:33 PM »

 @Notwendy Virtual hug (click to insert in post) thank you. Yes I still held out hope in the hospital (in his last hours) that he would tell me he was proud or that he loved me very much...but no. I do know I am good enough but I always seem to surround myself with people that don't validate me so sometimes the doubts creep in. It's a process and coming here to talk about it has helped me.
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« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2021, 01:43:00 PM »

Rationally speaking, you seem to have been doing relatively well before this "major life change" hit you - you're still in shock, you pinned some possibly unrealistic hopes on what might occur as a deathbed conversion from the person you knew him to be or the types of people you know your relatives to be...step back for a moment.

You're in a vulnerable and emotionally overwhelming spot right now, chances are any decision you make in regards to your relatives is not going to be the most rational one for you to be choosing...whether it's closeness or distance. Just politely step back, explain you're still in a bit of shock from the recent funeral and plan to revisit the ideas in a couple months when you've gained a little more emotional and mental stability. Then you'll be able to contact them again with better-grounded news that is less likely to prove reversible or ill-fated.

I hate the term "self-care", but something like that might be necessary right now.
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