Do I make amends with my bpdM or go no contact?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Yikes…your mom’s therapist used to be your therapist? Were you ever seen conjointly by this therapist? If not, then this would most likely constitute a conflict of interest on the part of the therapist, especially considering the nature of your relationship with your mother.

https://www.cphins.com/treating-multiple-members-of-a-family-conflicts/

[Couscous]

Yikes…your mom’s therapist used to be your therapist? Were you ever seen conjointly by this therapist? If not, then this would most likely constitute a conflict of interest on the part of the therapist, especially considering the nature of your relationship with your mother.

https://www.cphins.com/treating-multiple-members-of-a-family-conflicts/

[wmm]

Couscous, she was originally the family therapist. I stopped seeing her because she was also seeing my sister at the time and broke confidentiality between us.

[Couscous]

Wmm, yeah….in my experience with family therapy it became quite obvious that the therapist was in way over her head and she simply did not understand BPD family dynamics. I dropped out after the second session after having nightmares and anxiety lasting for days after each session.

[Flossy]

wmm
I think dont include that sentence about legal action.

Perhaps say "the police will be notified". Keep it simple like that.

Talking about legal action is likely to incite her to take action and she will enjoy the chance to show her power.

I dont think she would enjoy the prospect of having her name on police record.

[Notwendy]

Another approach would be silence.

In my situation and email like that would be inciteful. My BPD mother tends to see boundaries as a challenge. I didn't go NC, I went MC- medium chill, which is to not be emotionally reactive.

Any correspondence I had with my parents was printed off and saved in a folder- and my mother would bring it up at times. When my father was ill, I was concerned about his welfare and spoke to his doctor about my mother. His medical providers assumed he was being cared for by my mother. I felt he needed more home care support.

The family rule was to not reveal anything about my mother to anyone. My dad's doctor spoke to him about it, and my father got angry at me. I then emailed him back that I would back off. They took that as me turning my back on my dad. My mother kept that email in a folder to bring up when she was angry at me.

Yes, I have some contact with her, but in terms of what we discuss, I don't discuss anything personal with her. I can talk about the news, the weather, something like "grandchild's soccer team won this weekend".

Reacting to my mother is fuel for the drama. Stating a boundary to her is an invitation for her to push and she does. One way to look at your parents' reactions is that they are escalating in order to bring you back into the family pattern. These behaviors have worked for them, they are the main tools they have to relate to you. They are going to do what worked for them in the past, until they realize these behaviors don't work.

What is the physical threat to your mother showing up? If there is one, then a restraining order might be a consideration. Yes, the emotional consequences are also something to consider. I am not minimizing the impact of her putting up your sister to ask you about the wedding dress. It's upsetting, but in the grand scheme of things, replying with a no contact email might cause even more drama than you want. Another option is to not react at all. You've sent the message you don't want the dress. I would expect your mother will try to contact you again, but responding with no drama is also an option.

You have made the decision to stop contact now, and one way is to be silent with your responses or short and non emotional ones. You could send an email but in my situation, an email like that would be taken out of context and create a lot of drama.

Boundaries are not something we place on another person. We can't control someone else. Saying  "don't talk to me" would not work because the response would be "how dare you tell me what to do" and a reaction on her part. Boundaries are our responses. Once my mother started yelling at me when I was visiting. I said nothing, and left, just like that. If she's on the phone and starts, then I say "I need to go, talk to you later" and hang up. Ignoring, not reacting is a boundary.

[wmm]

These are some good points.

I was already planning on sending the no contact email before my sister relayed the message to me. I think what really happened was that I wasn't over the drama that occurred on the weekend and the heavy discussion and video I watched at the course brought it all up. I was probably just getting over the shock of the event. I attended an ACA (adult children of alcoholics) meeting last night when my therapist had to cancel our appointment. It was very helpful. I'm not religious but I know there are secular ones too, just not as many. I watched a video that someone posted in a comment about writing a no contact letter. The man in the video warned that the people weren't going to respect the boundaries and were going to try to reach out. I was only thinking about sending a no contact letter so that I had something to show the police if I had to call them again. I'm going to wait for now. I already told her in another email that I needed more space, it was just more casual and the police have the record that she came to my house unwelcomed last time.

It's sad, but I think I'll only unblock my other family members on weekends or over the holidays when I'm up to it, and only if they don't bug me about my mother.

I'm not mentally strong enough yet to be in some contact with her. Every interaction I have with her makes me really anxious, even if it's positive. Just hearing her voice on the phone makes me anxious. I reached out to a therapist that specializes in CPTSD and I'll try to do some work with her before I talk to my mother. In general, I've been doing a lot better and I've been enjoying my days more when I'm not in contact with her or reminded of her.

[Notwendy]

I attend ACA meetings too. I think the program is very helpful. The original Blue Book (AA) that all 12 step programs evolved from was written by Christians, but you are correct- it is adaptable to all belief systems and non religious as well. "Higher Power" can be what we want it to be. It helps us understand that we can't control other people and also that it is OK to ask for help and not try to control everything on our own.

It's OK to take care of you and not put yourself through the stress of contact with her at the moment.

[Couscous]

It has been almost two years since I “divorced” my brother and his codependent agents still have not got the point that I am not going to reconcile with him. They are always coming up with sneaky ways to attempt to bring me back into the family fold. They never give up.

Which is why I now understand the purpose for no contact. It’s not to prevent your family from contacting you; it’s to prevent you from responding. It’s setting limits on yourself, not on other people.

[beatricex]

There are currently two different threads with people kicking around the idea of a restraining order against a parent, or at least getting the police backup in case one should be needed.

I have a little bit of experience with my BPD mom calling the police on me.  I have more experience than I care to admit with the police advising I file a restraining order on someone.  I once got pulled out of work by a detective because someone I knew (not a romantic interest) filed a false police report about me.  As a result, the detective's strong suggestion was that I go down to the courthouse immediately and file a restraining order; more specifically, in the state I lived in it was called an Order of Protection.  I think the laws and the way they work in different states is very different.

Anyway, the entire thing was very disturbing because the person I filed against was not a US citizen (they were from Mexico), and this Order of Protection allowed them (the police) to search this man without cause and then to deport him, which is what happened.

I guess maybe they felt he was a threat to me?

In all cases where I was involved in restraining orders, the police felt it could be a volatile situation, real physical bodily harm might occur (btw, you have to prove this to a judge for it to be granted, which means going in front of the judge, it's not automatic)...

I think this might be hard to prove in the case of a Mom?  Unless you have a police report where she hit you? 

I'm not sure "my Mom is freaking me out" is the situation where the restraining order is intended.  I believe (could be wrong) it's intended to deal with a freaky stalker situation or physical abuse situations?  Believe it or not, I have had that too, a stalker.  Starting at age 16 and ending around age 21.  In that case, a restraining order against this teenager who was likely trying to either rape and/or kill me really made me feel a lot better.  But, for my BPD Mom?  uh, no.

I think this would just have exacerbated my stress.  A BIFF letter?  That is the way to go for me.  I think.  I do have a fear of looking ridiculous to the police, maybe even a bit of cPTSD cause Mom called the police on ME (when I was 17).  All that happened was I sat in the back of a cop car in front of my house for a bit, cried, and the officer consoled me.  After awhile, he let me go back inside.  Good times!  ( NOT)

A whole nother discussion is things BPD moms do because they're not good at parenting.  Like use police to control their kids.  ugh

b

[wmm]

Has anyone had to take time off from work due to stress from a bpd family member? I'm absolutely exhausted and the days feel so long. I'm having trouble not breaking down into tears. I have no one to talk to at my new job. I have the next two weeks off so I'm trying to last the week but it's really hard.

[Methuen]

Good for you for taking a short term leave of absence.  

What you have been through is intense, and seems both acute and chronic.  

I have not been on LOA’s because of my mom, but I have been on LOA’s for other reasons.  

Are you seeing a Dr?  The crying may be a symptom of depression from all this …and medication such as antidepressant could be one part of recovery.  I’m not a doc, but would recommend you share what you are experiencing with your doc.  S/he will offer options to help you.

I can’t remember if you are seeing a T?  Most school districts (I think you work in a classroom as an EA…do I have that right?) offer EAP (employee assistance plans) for counseling.  If you aren’t already accessing these services, they too can help.  

You’ve been through  so much wmm.  If you are at the breaking point, and can’t get through the week, can you take sick days?  It would be best to avoid breaking  down in front of the kids.  People at your new school haven’t had the chance to really get to know you yet, and the kids won’t understand, so if possible, try to avoid being  vulnerable in front of them…depending on the kids, and how strong you are feeling.

It sounds like maybe it’s time to focus on you, and your recovery?  You’ve started that by taking two weeks off.  Maybe with your doctor, explore whether s/he thinks two weeks will be enough?  If not, long term leave of absence might also be available with a doctors medical note.  

Sometimes work can be a healthy distraction from other problems, but if that is not the case, or if it is adding to your  stress, then see your doc for a medical certificate to give you time off work. This will also give you time and space to come up with a longer term plan.  

I hope today gets a little better for you.

Hugs

[zachira]

I have taken a lot of time off from work due to C-PTSD because of all the abuse I have suffered from my immediate and extended families. My heart goes out to you, knowing how painful it is to spend large periods of time overwhelmed by unbearable feelings. The challenge for me has always been to know when I am too overwhelmed to deal with the feelings, need to shut them down or when I need to process these feelings with somebody I can trust to be empathetic and caring. The biggest help for me has been to learn how to be present in the moment so no feeling becomes too overwhelming. I try to meditate every day for at least an hour. When I first started therapy, I could not be present with my feelings without becoming completely overwhelmed, sometimes disassociating for days after the end of my session. EMDR was eventually my salvation once the therapist increased my session to 1 1/2 hours so I could quiet down the overwhelming feelings before I left. Right now I am reading the autobiography of Gisele Bundchen who was on the verge of suicide because of the years she spent working herself to death. It is a positive book,  a real enjoyable read, and refreshing because she had warm caring parents and has made so many life affirming choices. Take the time you need to heal, and you will start to feel better. When we face how overwhelmed we are can be the most challenging yet it is often the point where we pivot to healing as our main focus.

[wmm]

Methuen, I'm on an SSRI for general anxiety disorder. It's hard for me to tell if the day to day anxiety is getting better due to upping my dose or going no contact with my mother, could be a combination of both. There's two reasons why I'm trying to last the rest of the week. The first one is because I currently only have a temporary position and I need my principal as a reference in order to get a permanent position. The second one is because I'm trying to prove to myself that I can and won't give up. This is probably the perfectionist in me and the people pleaser part.

Working with the children can also be a good distraction. When I work with them I concentrate on their needs and don't think about my problems as much. It's when I have a break or at the end of the day that it gets worse. A lot of school staff seem to be having difficulty getting through the days right now and are awaiting eagerly for the break.

Zachira, did emdr work for you? Is it something that I would have to keep doing for life or until I process my issues? I just talked to a therapist yesterday who does cognitive processing therapy (CPT). It's a type of CBT for PTSD. I know someone who swears by it. The thing is their trrauma is in the past. I don't know if it will work of I still have to deal with my mother. My main goal is to not be afraid of her anymore.

[zachira]

EMDR worked once my sessions were extended to 1 1/2 hours which is the length of time the sessions are supposed to be. EMDR taught me to be present in the moment, and has given me the ability to do meditation and other healing modalities on my own. My therapist stopped doing EMDR because most of her clients could not handle being present in the moment, and this is true of many other therapists. It was terribly traumatizing to have to stay present with my therapist while doing EMDR yet it was well worth the pain and discomfort as it is what really made the difference in being able to start to heal.

[Methuen]

You are doing the right things for yourself wmm.  I want to encourage you and say it is going to get better.  This rough patch is temporary…it won’t be like this forever (I say this because in my rough patches it feels like it will last forever).

Have you been on the. SSRI for at least 3 (or even 6) weeks?  They take a while to start working…

Awesome that you are seeing a T.  Is your T a good fit for you?

Working with the children can also be a good distraction. When I work with them I concentrate on their needs and don't think about my problems as much. It's when I have a break or at the end of the day that it gets worse. A lot of school staff seem to be having difficulty getting through the days right now and are awaiting eagerly for the break.

ok. There are positives here.  It sounds like you enjoy the children.  My guess is that with your life experience, you are intuitive to their needs, tuned into them, and caring.  They are lucky to have you!  That they are a good distraction is special!  So at the end of the day when it gets worse, is there something physical you can do? There is plenty of scientific evidence that supports  physical activity as a therapy for depression.  Daily long walks? A run?  Kickboxing?  Yoga?  Or alternatively art or music - something you enjoy that immerses you and relaxes you? And make it a routine?

You mention you are a people pleaser.  I’m guessing many of us on this forum are.  But now is the time for you to take care of yourself, and not think about the needs of others over xmas.  You deserve this self care.

Relaxing bubble baths, jammies and your favorite tv series?  A cup of steamimg hot camomile  tea?

You are right that all school staff are reaching for the Christmas break.  It is always like this, and the pandemic has only made it worse.  During the Christmas break, I hope you can focus on your own well-being, and take care of YOU so that you can find your way back to feeling some calm again, and this will give your amygdala a chance to settle down.  

When my amygdala is in a heightened state, I do physical activity that I enjoy, which distracts me and prevents me from ruminating, and which also helps me sleep at night.  What works best for you wmm?

Three more days.  Stay in the moment with the children, and practice good self care when you are not with the children, and you will make it.  You’ve got this, and we’ve got your back.  Hugs

[Couscous]

Zachira May I ask how many sessions you did of EMDR? One therapist I interviewed who does EMDR and who also specializes in narcissistic abuse does EFT with her clients at the end of the 50 minute sessions to stabilize them. What do you think about that as an alternative to the 90 minute sessions?

[zachira]

I would only do the 90 minute sessions of EMDR. My therapist told me she was doing the 50 minute sessions to save me money. I did EMDR for about a year.

[Flossy]

WMM
You sound as though you are moving forward in the perfect way. Good on you.

Just one thought I have to share with you. I have C-PTSD from a mother with NPD. I developed it 15 years ago when I tried to get her to tell the truth. I also tried many SSRI's. The only medication type that worked for me was SNRI's. They work on the pre-cursor to adrenaline.

The main ones being PRISTIQ and EFFEXOR.
Consider having a talk to your doctor about a trial of one of these.
I personally take Pristiq 200mg AM and have not had a panic attack for 10 years.
It also stops my Fibromyalgia pain (something that can come with PTSD).

EMDR worked for me. I only did two sessions but that along with joining a group for PTSD has made me able to no longer suffer terribly.

I do a lot of research and self education on my own. I also did 18 months with a life coach by email which helped more than any therapy.

You are doing well, asking great questions and getting good advice.

I like that you narrowed your main concern down to "I just dont want to be scared of her anymore".  That is great. Write it somewhere. you can see it every day.

PS Give yourself a time and place where you have permission to cry a big ugly cry. I used to do it in the shower or in front of my mirror. It is necessary and very good for you. We have to learn to cry again, in grief, despair and sorrow,  as it's a normal reaction we have been made to feel we are not allowed to have.

It does not mean that it is hopeless or that you have failed.

[zachira]

How many sessions of EMDR a person needs is related to have much current and past traumas affect them. A woman coming from a healthy family who got raped might need 3-4 sessions. A lot of trauma starts with children when they are in the terrible twos and the parents start to abuse the child. My trauma started at birth when I was left in the crib all day with little human contact so I had never learned the most basic emotional regulation skills.

[beatricex]

Something you can try immediately, while you wait for the formal therapy is tapping.

"Even though I'm afraid of my mom, I love and accept myself" (said while tapping the 9 meridian points)
or
"Even though I have anxiety, I love and accept myself" (said while tapping the 9 meridian points)
https://www.tappingsolutionfoundation.org/howdoesitwork/

A long time ago a therapist also suggested that if I got stressed in a public place, to tap my middle finger and thumb together three times, then switch the the other hand, then back.  As many times as was needed (I close my eyes when doing this).  No one will notice you are doing this, it can be done discretely.  It disrupts the negative thought process you are having because it switches your thought from Left to Right brain and back.  That is also what work does, disrupts emotions, because you're concentrating (Left brain) on an anayltical task at hand. 

Totally get the idea that breaks from work are scary (that's when negative emotions come up for me), also that your Mom is scary.  I have at various points in my life also had an intense fear that my Mom is going to harm me.   Unfortunately, it's a real thing some of us suffer as adult children of BPD or NPD mothers.