I had a enough

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I am happy i have found this thread and i am happy i can finally post about my marriage to a wife who has undiagnosed BPD.

I met my wife online 10 years ago and the relationship moved fast looking back it moved way too fast. She told me she was raised by a narcissist mom who verbally abused her since she was a child and she never knew what true love meant. She put me on a pedestal and told me i was the best person i have ever met. After our parents met, my parents told me don’t jump into the marriage because something was off about the family but silly me didn’t believe in them. My bpdw was a sweet loving person when we were dating, very caring towards me and my family. One thing i found very odd when we were dating was that she didn’t have any friends from college or any long term friends, she told me she cut ties with them because they did her wrong (red flag) and again I didn’t think too much of it. I knew nothing about personality disorder before i met her. During our dating phase i tried to break up with her because something was telling me there was something off about her but she told me i was her savior and she never felt love until she met me so i fell back into the trap.  In  a year we met, we got engaged, moved in together and married.

Things started to change right after we moved in together, i noticed she became super angry when i didn’t meet her needs (big or small) she no longer wanted me to speak to my family, she would tell me it’s weird you talk to your family few days a week and that she doesn’t speak to her family (they always fight and cut ties then get together). And when she met my best friend and his wife for dinner, she concluded my friends wife is not a person she wants to eat dinner with and she will never see them again so i cut ties with my best friend. We fought every few weeks about everything i was doing wrong and i am not doing my best to make her happy even though she moved up for me (which is not true she wanted to move away from her family). Our fights would last hours and days, usually me begging for forgiveness and promising her i will be better. Then we had our first son and things got even worse, our fights started to happen more often and it became more intense, she became super angry (rage) anger i never saw from anyone before. During one fight she threw an ipad against a wall so i finally reached out to my pastor and he gave me a therapist for me to see. When i described my wife’s behavior to the the therapist he gave me a book “walking on a eggshell” and he told me he thinks my wife has borderline personality. After reading the first page of the book i knew my wife has bpd, I actually cried when I read the book because i felt like finally i am not going crazy there is something off about her. At the same time i seeked help from an attorney because I didn’t want to live with my bpdw anymore but i backed out because i was worried about my 2 year old son and my wife was also seeing a therapist.  I met my therapist and told the therapist my side if the story and her behavior and the therapist told
me “there is nothing wrong with my wife and she is just stressed out”. We met with my therapist few times together and i thought things were getting better so we decided to stop seeing the therapist.

Looking back nothing got better but my wife was behaving better because she knew i was unhappy and also she wanted another child. I will leave the details out because its same cycle over. We had another child, we will fight and i get blamed for everything, i get blamed when the kids misbehave, i get blamed when her car runs out of gas. She will meet a new friends and coworkers, they are great when she meets them but after few months they are the worse and she cut ties with them. She isolated me from my friends and family and during every fight she will verbally put me down and i started to believe in everything she said, if a wife tells you something over and over it must be true? Then she  physically hit me but again stupid me did nothing about it because i didn’t want to break up the family. Verbal abuse never stopped but during small window of happiness i forget how toxic the relationship is. My older son actually said “mom cannot control her rage”. My life right now is not really a life, i am not allowed to express my feelings, frustration, stress i am told to suck it up. I don’t get to see my few friends i have because i have to take care of the kids because she comes home late (she actually said she stays at work longer so she doesn’t have to deal with the kids). And when i forget to do something because i am so busy with work and taking care of the kids i get yelled at. I don’t really have a life because my life is just to make sure she doesn’t have episodes of rage. But few weeks ago she just blew up over cup of coffee and told me to beg for mercy and she threaten to call the police and make up a lie so i will get arrested. If I didn’t have kids i would have left her long time ago but i am really worried about my kids because right now i am the buffer between her rage and the kids. What would happen when i am not there and she is having a bad day and the kids are misbehaving? Thank you all for listening to my story and any advice will be appreciated

[Gdoodle]

I am happy i have found this thread and i am happy i can finally post about my marriage to a wife who has undiagnosed BPD.

I met my wife online 10 years ago and the relationship moved fast looking back it moved way too fast. She told me she was raised by a narcissist mom who verbally abused her since she was a child and she never knew what true love meant. She put me on a pedestal and told me i was the best person i have ever met. After our parents met, my parents told me don’t jump into the marriage because something was off about the family but silly me didn’t believe in them. My bpdw was a sweet loving person when we were dating, very caring towards me and my family. One thing i found very odd when we were dating was that she didn’t have any friends from college or any long term friends, she told me she cut ties with them because they did her wrong (red flag) and again I didn’t think too much of it. I knew nothing about personality disorder before i met her. During our dating phase i tried to break up with her because something was telling me there was something off about her but she told me i was her savior and she never felt love until she met me so i fell back into the trap.  In  a year we met, we got engaged, moved in together and married.

Things started to change right after we moved in together, i noticed she became super angry when i didn’t meet her needs (big or small) she no longer wanted me to speak to my family, she would tell me it’s weird you talk to your family few days a week and that she doesn’t speak to her family (they always fight and cut ties then get together). And when she met my best friend and his wife for dinner, she concluded my friends wife is not a person she wants to eat dinner with and she will never see them again so i cut ties with my best friend. We fought every few weeks about everything i was doing wrong and i am not doing my best to make her happy even though she moved up for me (which is not true she wanted to move away from her family). Our fights would last hours and days, usually me begging for forgiveness and promising her i will be better. Then we had our first son and things got even worse, our fights started to happen more often and it became more intense, she became super angry (rage) anger i never saw from anyone before. During one fight she threw an ipad against a wall so i finally reached out to my pastor and he gave me a therapist for me to see. When i described my wife’s behavior to the the therapist he gave me a book “walking on a eggshell” and he told me he thinks my wife has borderline personality. After reading the first page of the book i knew my wife has bpd, I actually cried when I read the book because i felt like finally i am not going crazy there is something off about her. At the same time i seeked help from an attorney because I didn’t want to live with my bpdw anymore but i backed out because i was worried about my 2 year old son and my wife was also seeing a therapist.  I met my therapist and told the therapist my side if the story and her behavior and the therapist told
me “there is nothing wrong with my wife and she is just stressed out”. We met with my therapist few times together and i thought things were getting better so we decided to stop seeing the therapist.

Looking back nothing got better but my wife was behaving better because she knew i was unhappy and also she wanted another child. I will leave the details out because its same cycle over. We had another child, we will fight and i get blamed for everything, i get blamed when the kids misbehave, i get blamed when her car runs out of gas. She will meet a new friends and coworkers, they are great when she meets them but after few months they are the worse and she cut ties with them. She isolated me from my friends and family and during every fight she will verbally put me down and i started to believe in everything she said, if a wife tells you something over and over it must be true? Then she  physically hit me but again stupid me did nothing about it because i didn’t want to break up the family. Verbal abuse never stopped but during small window of happiness i forget how toxic the relationship is. My older son actually said “mom cannot control her rage”. My life right now is not really a life, i am not allowed to express my feelings, frustration, stress i am told to suck it up. I don’t get to see my few friends i have because i have to take care of the kids because she comes home late (she actually said she stays at work longer so she doesn’t have to deal with the kids). And when i forget to do something because i am so busy with work and taking care of the kids i get yelled at. I don’t really have a life because my life is just to make sure she doesn’t have episodes of rage. But few weeks ago she just blew up over cup of coffee and told me to beg for mercy and she threaten to call the police and make up a lie so i will get arrested. If I didn’t have kids i would have left her long time ago but i am really worried about my kids because right now i am the buffer between her rage and the kids. What would happen when i am not there and she is having a bad day and the kids are misbehaving? Thank you all for listening to my story and any advice will be appreciated

[herbivorestepmom]

Hi Gdoodle! WOW -- reading your post was like hearing my H tell me stories about his time with his BPDex. They have a 5yo D together, so we are still dealing with her and will for the next loong 12 years 

The sad thing is that the cycle never stops. Even when they find a new partner, the cycle just repeats itself again. My H's BPDex is now re-married, and the stories/behavior are the same.

From what I can tell you, my husband is a MUCH happier person since being with his BPDex. She had turned him into a shell of a person and destroyed a lot of his property (including totaling his car with a hatchet). I can also tell you that he made a lot of mistakes when he left her, because all he was focusing on was making his escape, not how to protect himself legally.

If you have been thinking about leaving, I think you already have your answer. Just make sure you consult with a couple L's and during the divorce make sure to establish a parenting plan and child support right away! My H's L specializes in paternal rights and divorce. We found him through a google search, and he has been a godsend. I just wish my H had found him sooner.

[Bertha88]

Dear Gdoodle,
Welcome to this forum.  You will find people here who understand your situation like noone else does, because we have lived, or are living, it.  I relate to your story so well.  YOU ARE NOT ALONE!

One thing i found very odd when we were dating was that she didn’t have any friends from college or any long term friends, she told me she cut ties with them because they did her wrong (red flag) and again I didn’t think too much of it. I knew nothing about personality disorder before i met her.
 

My uBPDh had dated a woman 4 years, then married her.  The marriage was over within 6 months.  Looking back, that was a huge red flag I should've heeded.  I never got a satisfactory explanation for it, other than that she unjustly accused him of being "too sensitive."  Hmmmm...

Things started to change right after we moved in together, i noticed she became super angry when i didn’t meet her needs (big or small)

Yes, this is continuing struggle between me & my uBPDh of 25 years.  I don't share many of his interests, yet he demands I share them and spend time with him, and he gets angry when I pursue my own hobbies or friends if he's not the focus of my attention.  The result?  Just as you said, I try myriad ways to please him:  join him in his pursuits, forego needed time away with others, postpone projects and activities I know he would not "approve" of--all for fear of his angst and criticism, which, of course, makes my life miserable.

i cut ties with my best friend

Though I don't want to admit this, I have dropped way back on my friendships.  One long-term friend of mine recently shocked me by saying:  "I'm tired of hearing about this!  You call me when you've left him, and not until!"  Needless to say, I was a bit shocked and hurt by this, but I guess she is sick and tired of my tales of woe with no action other than to "try again" to get things to work better in our marriage.  At least for now, she's chosen to be out of my life.  Makes me sad.

When i described my wife’s behavior to the the therapist he gave me a book “walking on a eggshell” and he told me he thinks my wife has borderline personality. After reading the first page of the book i knew my wife has bpd, I actually cried when I read the book because i felt like finally i am not going crazy there is something off about her.

I felt the same epiphany and even glee when I read about BPD.  I have often said:  "It is like reading my autobiography."  My uBPDh maintains there is nothing wrong with him, he does not have BPD--two doctors told him so!... it's such a baffling and confusing thing to be around... I know full well the cycle of my own anger and then "forgetting" how toxic things are when there is period of relative calm, which is rare these days.

i get blamed for everything, i get blamed when the kids misbehave, i get blamed when her car runs out of gas.

Ditto.  In his eyes, I was not a good mom.  I think I was a great mom, as my kids attest.  I didn't do things his way, which was a constant struggle.  I too am blamed for everything, it seems.  It's part of the disorder.

She isolated me from my friends and family and during every fight she will verbally put me down and i started to believe in everything she said, if a wife tells you something over and over it must be true?

Ditto.  After a while (a short while), you lose the ability to see clearly.  Then sometimes someone will hold up a mirror, and it's terrifying and dreadfully sad.  At least, I feel that way.  Yet I keep thinking (and some tell me) that somehow I am to blame for this situation, and if I just tweak my behavior, if I'm just kinder/less selfish/more focused on him (which I do not WANT to be, b/c he's unpleasant most of the time), things would get better.  It's nuts.  I can't sustain it, for one thing.  For another, it never seems to be enough.  Third, I'm leaving myself, my own needs/wants/desires out of the equation!  This is crazy-making!
[/quote]

Verbal abuse never stopped but during small window of happiness i forget how toxic the relationship is.

Yep.  I'm there now, sliding between the myopia of "maybe this can work" back to "this can't work".

My older son actually said “mom cannot control her rage”.

Ditto to this, also.  We have 3 adult children.  Two of these are begging me to leave him.  Your children are younger.  My heart goes out to you.  It sounds like you're a good father, and a source of stability for them.

My life right now is not really a life, i am not allowed to express my feelings, frustration, stress i am told to suck it up. I don’t get to see my few friends i have because i have to take care of the kids because she comes home late (she actually said she stays at work longer so she doesn’t have to deal with the kids). And when i forget to do something because i am so busy with work and taking care of the kids i get yelled at. I don’t really have a life because my life is just to make sure she doesn’t have episodes of rage.

I think you've nailed what it's like to live with a BPD while raising a family.  This definitely resonates with me.  I think we all have to look squarely at the truth of our situation, seek wise counsel (which you have/are doing), look at how our own behaviors are contributing to the situation, and decide how much we can take.  I'm in the tricky last stage.  I'm still here, and I'm not sure why.

Others may also tell you this, but if she's physically violent, don't tolerate it... get to a place of safety, and possibly call 911.  I did that once and it was traumatic but my uBPDh went to jail and got charged with Domestic Violence and it has never happened again (though he's still verbally abusive).

I wish you well.  This Board can help.

[ForeverDad]

If I didn’t have kids i would have left her long time ago but i am really worried about my kids because right now i am the buffer between her rage and the kids. What would happen when i am not there and she is having a bad day and the kids are misbehaving?

You're always there with the kids?  Do you work always at home or run errands only when they're off to school?

Generally there's always times when we're away from our kids.  Most of us can't be with our kids 100% of the time.

One of the differences between separation/divorce with separate parenting versus all living together in dysfunctional and even unhealthy scenarios is this:  When the parents have separate homes then the kids will, when with the reasonably normal parent, have a place of stability, calmness and safety.  From one of my prior posts:

A few decades ago the book Solomon's Children - Exploding the Myths of Divorce had an interesting observation on page 195 by one participant, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that.  Taking action, as appropriate, will enable your lives or at least a part of your lives to be spent be in a calm, stable environment - your home, wherever that may be - away from the blaming, emotional distortions, pressuring demands and manipulations, unpredictable ever-looming rages and outright chaos.

In short, you can choose to make the best of a lousy situation, whether you stay with demonstrated improvement, "stay for now" pending improvement or whether you go.  The reasonable best.

Your decisions of course will be affected by your spouse's actions and behaviors.  But it's always up to you to decide what boundaries you will set in your life, what you will do or not do, etc.

[Gdoodle]

Thank you for everyone’s encouragement and support.

Not counting the time my kids are in school, i am with them almost 95% of the time. I do errands when i get out of work and before picking up the kids or with the kids. When my wife is with the kids i am on edge because she will get tired of the kids because it is lot of work to take care of 2 young kids and when they do something she doesn’t like she will flip out on them. After she flips out on them then the anger is let out on me. She would always say “why can those brats behave when i did everything for them”, i realized with my ubpdw love is not unconditional, she will only love someone if they meet her needs and behave the way she wants. We decided to get a pet, we both agreed it was the right time for the kids to have a pet but now she is telling me “i made the decision on my own and i am to blame for all of her stress and misery”. And has any bpd partners have addiction to shopping, the phone or tv? My ubpdw will go on shopping sprees when she is happy or unhappy and when she comes home from instead of talking to me or the kids she will just be on her own.

I know i need to be patient until everything is settled but constantly having the internal battle between “maybe this will work when things are calm” and “no this is very toxic relationship when things are bad” is really making me tired.

Thank you again for listening

[Bertha88]

Wow, powerful quote from ForeverDad.  My adult children would agree, though I am STILL here.  My 24-year old son yesterday likened me to an addict who, though in more rational moments knows this is toxic, loses that perspective the next day if something makes it seem justifiable/bearable, etc.  So I keep "using," to continue the metaphor.

One thing for sure, these are wrenching choices for many of us.  My latest idea is to keep 2 separate notebooks for journaling, one when I'm mad enough to leave, and one when I'm in the "well, maybe..." stage.  The idea is to understand my own thinking.  I have a counselor who is encouraging, but I am not sure that deep work is going on.  Not even sure what that looks like, exactly, but my willingness to live with uBPDh's behavior and my constant reactions to it, many not helpful to the situation but almost impossible to control, have us both stuck.  And I know I'm not OK myself in accepting this kind of treatment/toxicity.

Yes, Gdoodle, my uBPDh seems to enjoy shopping (I call it "retailing," usually the big box store that's grocery plus) and is quite a spender.  This is another bone of contention for us.  I became irritated the other night when he was looking at 2nd homes in a real estate magazine.  I judged him instantly--it just irritates me; never content, etc. Yet I realized I was judging, at least.  Didn't verbalize my feelings, but they were there and he can tell from my lack of enthusiasm that I don't approve, most likely.

I hear you on the "tired" part.  I am there too, actually quite sad and feeling as if I'm in a painful no-man's land of indecision and unhappiness.  I want someone to tell me what to do, and to help me do it, to be honest.  And no single person can do that.  The sheer logistics of busting up a 25-year marriage + 3 children is overwhelming to me.  So I ponder and wait... praying for discernment, speaking with caring friends and my counselor, reading, and posting.

As far as working on the relationship, my efforts are sporadic at best and much governed by my anger, which in turn correlates with willingness.   I have found that I bottle up my anger typically, which makes this a charade of sorts when "I love you"s are exchanged or physical intimacy occurs.  In short, my heart isn't in any of the above, b/c I am always waiting for the next shoe to drop.  Wait 5 minutes, and it will!  But it stinks for him as well that I operate that way.  When I do express myself, it's generally very cathartic and it opens me up to hear more of what he is feeling.  That's one pattern I've noted.  But in the day-to-day, that's risky (expressing ourselves), is it not?  b/c we can't always accommodate a rage-aholic response.

All best to you.  Sorry I cannot offer relief other than to remind you that you are not alone.

[NotAHero]

Gdoodle

 I’m in a very similar situation except I did start the next stage of separation. 

 I was really worried about the child we have together. For him I lived in horror for years. Finally realized that I have to change my way of thinking. Staying for the kids is not a good idea if there is physical violence or threats and you are a male. You can either get seriously hurt or worse yet get arrested and you will be taken out of the picture. Your kids will have no protector.

 Realistically consider your options. In my case I realized a 50/50 custody will provide the most stability for my child and best protection. I have planned my escape plan over the period of 2 years and I can see the finish line now. The good news is that uBPDs are predictable in one aspect, they will not get better and they will always blame you.

 Start planning your escape plan now. Read the book “SPLITTING: how to protect yourself when divorcing a BPD or NP”. It will take away a lot of the uncertainty that will keep you entangled in fear.

 Best of luck.

[herbivorestepmom]

I know i need to be patient until everything is settled but constantly having the internal battle between “maybe this will work when things are calm” and “no this is very toxic relationship when things are bad” is really making me tired.

Unfortunately, things will never settle down. Every time a BPD individual is done raging, everyone involved (you and your children) just go back into an incubation period to await the next blow up.

From experience, the older the kids get, the worse the BPD person handles them. When they are young, it is easy to "mold" them and force them to comply. As the kids age and they start to have their own wants and gain a personality, the BPD person sees that as a form of abandonment and they tend to pull the reins harder in an attempt to regain control over the kids. My H and I are going through this now with his 5yoD when she is at her uBPD mom's house.

Being able to be the stable parent and provide a safe environment for them is incredibly important.

[ForeverDad]

Staying for the kids is not a good idea if there is physical violence or threats and you are a male. You can either get seriously hurt or worse yet get arrested and you will be taken out of the picture. Your kids will have no protector.

This was a real concern for me.  I almost got arrested (or at least carted off) in my first police encounter.  The fact that I was the one who called 911 didn't matter to anyone but me.

Realistically consider your options. In my case I realized a 50/50 custody will provide the most stability for my child and best protection. I have planned my escape plan over the period of 2 years and I can see the finish line now.

This 50/50 concept seems reasonable and fair but... realistically that's not enough, not when the other spouse can use a supposedly equal status to sabotage you by refusing to cooperate.  Your most practical goal, as the reasonably normal parent, is to seek as much legally ordered or effective parenting authority and time as possible.  And continue such efforts over time since obstructions and conflict will likely continue.

My then-spouse had just been arrested for Threat of DV yet she was able to get temporary full custody and majority time for the next two years, until the final decree of divorce.  She had started counseling for our preschooler (a good thing) yet used it as a way to claim victimhood and no official seemed concerned about it.  Basically the message was it would get addressed eventually.  When I did get 50/50 (equal time) once we were eventually divorced, she still sabotaged my parenting.  A few years later when I got full custody, she still didn't stop the disparaging and sabotage.  It took a couple more years to get majority time during the school year (with the school's input).  That all was from 2005 to 2013, from age 3 to almost age 12.

The good news is that uBPDs are predictable in one aspect, they will not get better and they will always blame you.

Well, there is a possibility that the pwBPD (most commonly undiagnosed since few ever get a diagnosis reported) might start meaningful therapy with an experienced therapist and over a period of years make noticeable progress toward recovery.  Sadly, around here on this ending-relationship board sufficient recovery, if any, is seldom reported.  Thus a practical admonition is to "plan for the worst and hope for... less bad".

Start planning your escape plan now. Read the book “SPLITTING: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder”. It will take away a lot of the uncertainty that will keep you entangled in fear.

[Gdoodle]

Has anyone ever had recording of ubpd spouse admitting to a physical abuse, verbal abuse and also admitting not wanting the kid? And of course she was aware of the conservation was getting recorded.

[Antonio123]

I felt like i was reading my very own story. But im married 18 years and had kids later in life so they are young. And mine now wants a divorce but like a addict i do not want to get divorced but am starting to realize its for the best.

Thanks for posting and lets be here for eachother. Thanks to others as well for the book suggestion on how to leave a BPD im downloadinkg it as we speak!