Another rage from uBPD mother

[kells76]

I don’t start work until next week.  I can bring the new prescription sometime this afternoon.
 I am happy to talk about anything you wish to talk about as long as it is respectful. The emotions directed at me on Friday were an attack.  If talking about feelings becomes unhealthy again, I will have to leave.   I’m hopeful that since the weekend, and some time to think back on what happened as well as think forward to the future, it can be healthy again. I look forward to seeing you."

Thoughts?  I’m trying to be brief, informative, firm, and friendly.  I don’t really “look forward to seeing her, but that is the “friendly” part.

Love that we have this place where we can try out texts/emails before sending. It's a huge relief.

Couple of thoughts for you to ponder...

"Hi Mom;
I don’t start work until next week.  I can bring the new prescription sometime this afternoon."

Starting with "Hi Mom" could be the Friendly part of BIFF. The next two sentences sound totally fine. You could consider if you want to replace "sometime this afternoon" with "between 3 & 5 this afternoon", if having that rigid time frame is helpful. Of course, it may be more helpful to leave yourself some wiggle room and not get into a "well I'm not available from 3-5 so I demand you bring it another time" fight.

" I am happy to talk about anything you wish to talk about as long as it is respectful. The emotions directed at me on Friday were an attack. If talking about feelings becomes unhealthy again, I will have to leave."

This might be a "less is more" moment. Slicing out "you wish to talk about" makes it more about your universal values -- you're just a person who is always, with anyone, happy to talk about anything as long as it stays respectful.

Same with "The emotions... an attack". This could be a doorway for her to argue about "NO I wasn't attacking you..." which is a pointless rabbit hole. I wish she were the kind of person who could recognize that she attacked you, yet she isn't, and she might take that opportunity to derail the text.

"If talking about... have to leave" makes sense. It allows you to be the one to determine if it's unhealthy or not, so you guys don't again get derailed with an argument of "well I don't think X is unhealthy" "well I do". It's your call.

"I’m hopeful that since the weekend, and some time to think back on what happened as well as think forward to the future, it can be healthy again. I look forward to seeing you."

Well... it's a lot to cut. Maybe other members will also have some feedback. It just seems like opening a doorway for arguing over text, or her bringing it up in person. I think it's strong to say "I'm happy to talk about anything as long as it stays respectful. If talking about feelings becomes unhealthy again, I will have to leave." You are expressing openness to talk and conveying what will happen if things turn south. Again, I wish she were the kind of person who could reflect on what happened over the weekend, and change. She may not be able to, and sadly, trying to raise the issue with her may not be effective in yielding that insight.

I also get where you're coming from with trying to find a friendly ending to the text. I wonder if saying something like:

"See you then!" or "Have a great Tuesday!" would be more true to you. It expresses friendliness and a "normal" closure that is something you can honestly convey.

This would leave you with:

"Hi Mom;
I don’t start work until next week, and I can bring the new prescription sometime this afternoon.
I am happy to talk about anything as long as it is respectful. If talking about feelings becomes unhealthy again, I will have to leave.
Hope you have a great Tuesday!
-Methuen"


Overall I like that you aren't engaging with her comment about the cousin and cousin's mom, and that you have a nice neutral boundary about how if talking becomes unhealthy you are leaving. I may be ruthless with the Brief part of BIFF  so definitely see what other members have to say, too.

-kells76

[Notwendy]

Oh my goodness. What I have found is that any invitation " to share our feelings" is going to be a mess. After all, if it was possible to have a relationship where you both could do that, it would have happened already.

"it's the little things that count...don't want to end up like ____" My mother also lectures like this and it's always about not approving of what someone else did. Not any insight to her own behaviors. Not any interest in what I am actually feeling or thinking. It's "I want you to tell me everything about you, so I can feel better". Or a "talk about feelings" is let me tell you how I feel and how awful you make me feel".

In short, it's a drama invitation. Strangely, when I stopped fueling the drama, our relationship feels very distant and cold. I think that it was drama that formed the foundation of it- the connection. As long as we were engaged in drama, it felt like a relationship.

Which may be the reason for the text and the panic text to your H- drama helps her feel connected. She may not be doing this on purpose but needs the drama to not feel abandoned.

 With my mother it was better for me to have a schedule. I will call you every Saturday. So if she tried to bring up something during the week, I could say "lets talk about this Saturday". This told her I was going to call rather than have her wonder if I was ever going to call. Remember they think in black and white and so you not coming one day- she may think "she's never" going to call.

So yes my mother went on an on about some relative who didn't tell her mother about her getting a divorce until it was done, and how awful that was and how it broke their trust and how we need to be telling each other everything and so we don't end up like them" and I think first- it's possible that this didn't happen because my mother often lies about these things, also this relative was close to her mother and they had a good relationship- the only reason that comes to mind is that she didn't want to drag her mother into the personal drama at the time, and that it was her own personal marital business- why should she share that with anyone?

And the countless times my mother has not shared what she's up to and not told the truth.

Considering how texts can be misinterpreted, I would not reply with any text with emotional content. I also would not tell her how you feel about her behavior. That would only cause a dysregulation with my mother. The best statements need to be about you, not her.

 Don't let on your work schedule. If she knows you aren't at work she can want you to spend a lot of time with her.

I can bring the new prescription sometime this afternoon. I think it's best to not have emotional discussions by text. These kinds of discussions are better to do in person. I won't be able to stay for a long visit today, and I will just drop off the prescription. We can arrange for a longer visit to have that discussion. I look forward to seeing you!

"arrange for a longer visit" when you do, bring your H along so you are not alone. Him being there will be a boundary. Asking her to speak to you respectfully- she may not do that if she's alone with you.  Listen to her feelings, don't react. She just wants to be heard. Don't agree, just validate. "I understand how you feel".
 

[zachira]

Methuen,
Learning about narcissistic supply might be helpful to you, and Dr. Ramani among others have some good videos on this subject on youtube. It seems that any explanation you give to your mother is an invitation for her to abuse you. You have explained everything you possibly can to her until you are blue in the face. The most recent texts your mother has sent you are gaslighting at its worst. Your points of views are of no interest to your mother, and she uses whatever you tell her, as a means to project how she feels inside onto you. It is understandable that you want to explain things to your mother and you want her to understand. It is normal to feel this way because she is your mother. With anybody else, you would have given up a long time ago on trying to be seen and heard.

[Notwendy]

Gaslighting is a more concise term for my mother's "lectures" which are either purposefully manipulative or she tells herself these things so many times, she actually believes them. Regardless, if she gets an open door to my feelings, then it's either drama or abuse. I don't tell her that her behavior was hurtful. The only result of that is more verbal abuse from her.

[Methuen]

Thank you all so much for your helpful and prompt replies.  I am so grateful for the support.  The thought of navigating my circumstances without this support... I also had a reply back from my T.  So putting all that together...

This is the text reply I ended up going with:

"I was tutoring this morning.  I can bring the new prescription sometime this afternoon.  Then we can look at your phone too.  I am happy to talk about anything as long as it is respectful.  If talking becomes unhealthy again, I will have to leave.  Hoping today, and the rest of the week starts to feel better!"

Giant exhale.

H and I have many errands to do in town together this afternoon.  One of them is bring mom her prescription, and take a look at her phone.

Interestingly, after H had already texted her to tell her we would look at her phone this afternoon when we brought the prescription by, she asked her home health worker (putting the drops in her eye) to call us to tell us her phone wasn't working.   H told the home health worker we already knew and were coming this afternoon.

Anyone want to psychoanalyze that behavior?

[GaGrl]

That last bit could be short term memory loss from the dementia. My dad was affected, but he was aware he was affected -- he carried a notepad in his pocket for reminders to himself.

Your mom may not be aware that she is having short term memory lapses.

[Methuen]

Update:  H and I went to mom's house this afternoon.  I was shaking.  Long story short, another blowout was avoided.  Lots of listening and validating.  When she began circular looping, I redirected.  When she started on the "I was a stay at home mom for you", I took a leap and gently listed all the jobs she had done.  She seemed to have forgotten about her work experience (a lot of different jobs) in her ruminating over "me not being there for her when she really needed it". She wasn't ready for that, and had no response.   I brought up examples of memories from the past including trips we had brought her on, and assured her we would still continue supporting her as much as we could with our work schedules. We gave examples.  A number of times she focussed on how she felt we didn't want her in our lives.  I reminded her those were her feelings.  Not ours.  She asked "why do I feel like this?"  I pointed out that was a very good question.  It came up that maybe it had something to do with how her dad had treated her.  But that had nothing to do with us.  She was kinda waify by then.  For the first time in her LIFE, she apologized.  For that she got a genuine hug. 

All in all, I would have to say it was successful.  It was an hour long conversation.  I recorded it again.  There was lots there for analysis.  H and I both hugely relieved it wasn't another meltdown.

While I can't say for sure, I believe the text sent prior to arriving, helped.  It set a boundary that we were there to be productive, and if things disintegrated, I would be leaving.

She's scared.  Of everything.  Of her vulnerability.  Of her age.  Of the unknown.  Of dying.  Her 93 year old sister is only 80 pounds now, and being transferred to long term care.  She started sobbing at that.  She told us today she doesn't want a funeral.  Didn't ask why.  I can respect that and it works for me.

While she still tried sending out arrows through the first half, we deflected the hits.

I think it went as well as it could have.

Thanks everyone for the help.  I'm so grateful, and feeling hugely relieved in the moment.

[Notwendy]

I am glad it went well. Naturally, your mother is feeling "normal" feelings as well- fear, frustration, discomfort, anger. Even "normal" parents can be difficult during this stage. My usually calm disposition mother in law has snapped at me a few times.

I think the challenge is to navigate between "difficult" and "abusive" and maintain the boundaries we need. In co-dependency work, one of the clues I learned to pay attention to is resentment. If we are "doing too much" there's a feeling of resentment. It's a cue to step back and do some self care.

When my father was ill, I read a book on elder rage. It helped to know I wasn't the only one experiencing this- but still, there was a different quality to the dynamics. My parents weren't just expressing anger, there was an abusive and hurtful aspect to it on the part of my mother and my father going along with it. When someone is angry- they lose control and say things, but on my mother's part it also wasn't all due to being out of control- it's intended. There's the line for me- my father was being difficult, my mother was being difficult at times but also abusive at times.

When Sidney Poitier passed away, I looked at scenes from his movies and in "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" his father states "I sacrificed for you" when disapproving of his engagement and he tells his father "you don't own me". I saw that movie when I was too young to really understand a lot of it, but seeing that scene now, I cringed thinking what might have happened if I ever said something like that that to my parents. There is no way I could have ever said anything near that without it being considered the most unforgivable crime to them. In this scene though, there's still love between them. This is difficult, not abusive. I would get disowned for saying something like that.

So your mother did this too, but on your part, you can't respond as if it were not a BPD relationship. I think you did well to navigate the line between difficult, your mother's understandable feelings, and yet not subject yourself to what feels abusive.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Methuen,

Your compassion, empathy and kindness with your mother is remarkable. I want to recognize it. I feel your husband is very supportive of you, and that you make a great team in looking out for your mother and for each other. It's beautiful to read you and it shows me that, all in all, it is possible to feel hurt, without being vengeful. It gives me hope in my own relationship with my mother.

Thank you for all the work you did and do on yourself and for sharing it here. It is a lighthouse in the dark for me right now.

[Cat Familiar]

   Put that in your *WIN* file and remember it in the future.

[GaGrl]

What an accomplishment! I hope you are congratulating yourself today for a well-planned win. 

Fear did not arise often for my mother, really only once during her hospitalization, when she asked, " Am I going to make it?" I found myself more and more empathetic as her condition deteriorated. I think you are having the same experience.

[pursuingJoy]

Thank you for all the work you did and do on yourself and for sharing it here. It is a lighthouse in the dark for me right now.

This. So proud of you, M. I hope that last few days have held more peace. You've been doing incredibly hard work and you deserve a break. You're an inspiration!