Depp v. Heard

[Cat Familiar]

Depp seemed credible. Heard did not. I admit I only listened to a very limited amount of testimony. She probably won’t recoup any money after she pays off attorney’s fees.

[maxsterling]

One possible positive to this case is that it has raised awareness of domestic abuse to men by women and this may possibly help men come forward with their situation more. I know in our area, the only DV shelter is for women and children, and while they are certainly the most vulnerable in general, this doesn't exclude that men are also experiencing DV with less resources allocated to them.

Hopefully.  Men victims face other challenges, though, and probably don't need shelters as often.  Typically, men have jobs and some money.  Women often are not in that position.  Men need more help in legal support from a system that typically does not see them as abuse targets.  There is also a lack of therapy support and places they can turn to.  I am willing to bet that in any community you can find multiple support groups for abused women, but its very rare to find support groups for abused men.  Even on the internet - so far this is one of the few places I feel safe sharing.

[PeteWitsend]

I am curious to read some of the source documents here.  All I've found were write ups on the level of detail of this CNN article https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/01/entertainment/johnny-depp-amber-heard-verdict/index.html:

The jury awarded Depp $10 million in compensatory damages and $5 million dollars in punitive damages. The jury awarded Heard $2 million in compensatory damages and no money for punitive damages.

The $2MM for her was compensation for a comment his attorney made, that they jury found defamatory.  I still haven't found what that comment was. 

The fact that he was awarded punitive damages and she wasn't is more significant than the amounts, in my opinion, because that means the jury found she acted with malice in making the defamatory statements, and he (via his attorney) did not. 

I've seen some statements that this will have a chilling effect on victims of domestic abuse and their ability to speak out... but the jury essentially found she was lying, and also he likely spent millions in legal fees to bring this complicated suit, which the avg. man does not have, so I doubt this sets much of a precedent.  Truth is still an absolute defense to defamation/libel.   

It exonerates him to a degree... that's about it.  It shines a spotlight briefly on BPD/HPD behavior.  I think that's a good thing, but I doubt it changes much. 

[Skip]

Waldman [former Depp attorney for British trail] began representing Depp after he and Heard divorced. He admitted to making several statements published in the Daily Mail in July 2020, including; “Amber Heard and her friends in the media used fake sexual violence allegations as both the sword and the shield”; “sexual violence hoax ‘facts'”; and “Quite simply this was an ambush a hoax.”

[Notwendy]

More than the verdict, I think the trial was quite damaging to Amber Heard. Producers make shows that will attract viewers=profit. The internet- tik tok, Twitter- response was widely in favor of Depp and brutal to Heard. Clips of outside the courthouse showed screaming Depp fans- a generation that grew up with a crush on Captain Sparrow. Surely the producers noticed this. I don't think anyone is lining up to see Heard in a show, but Depp will draw fans.

For Depp though, I don't think this was about money, or movies, but him standing up to abuse. I don't think his intent was to harm Heard specifically. He didn't have a choice as a child when he was abused by his mother ( who he stated was the "meanest person he knows"). Perhaps I am reading more into it, but I think for Johnny Depp, this trial was for validation. Yes, this happened, and he will no longer allow another narrative. His last line of his statement after the verdict said it best: Veritas numquam perit. Truth never perishes.

[stolencrumbs]

More than the verdict, I think the trial was quite damaging to Amber Heard. Producers make shows that will attract viewers=profit. The internet- tik tok, Twitter- response was widely in favor of Depp and brutal to Heard. Clips of outside the courthouse showed screaming Depp fans- a generation that grew up with a crush on Captain Sparrow. Surely the producers noticed this. I don't think anyone is lining up to see Heard in a show, but Depp will draw fans.

For Depp though, I don't think this was about money, or movies, but him standing up to abuse. I don't think his intent was to harm Heard specifically. He didn't have a choice as a child when he was abused by his mother ( who he stated was the "meanest person he knows"). Perhaps I am reading more into it, but I think for Johnny Depp, this trial was for validation. Yes, this happened, and he will no longer allow another narrative. His last line of his statement after the verdict said it best: Veritas numquam perit. Truth never perishes.

I guess I clearly seem to be the outlier here. I found Depp neither particularly credible nor particularly likable during the trial. And I was a fan of his. He seemed maybe 50% less full of s*** than Amber Heard to me, but both seemed well steeped in it. I've never seen any movie AH was in, and I definitely wouldn't seek one out now. But I am also less inclined to watch or care about anything JD does in the future. My biggest takeaway was that JD clearly had better lawyers who hired better experts. They were more articulate, more polished, and more attractive, and that stuff matters in a jury trial.

[Notwendy]

I don't mean to say JD didn't participate in the dysfunction. He has his own issues as well.

But from a marketing standpoint:

The public, and his many fans, took his side. Many fans are also females who had a crush on Captain Jack Sparrow, and of course it makes sense that a straight male would see this differently. Many celebrities have a lot of fans and also their personal lives might be a mess, but fans mean more people coming to movies. Producers see that in terms of $$$

Admittedly, a celebrity crush is not the same as a real relationship. As a straight female who has seen a lot of his movies, I see why he's a celebrity crush  . Would I consider a real relationship with him? Absolutely not, but that's not a realistic thing to consider. Would I spend a few dollars to see his movies? Yes and that is what producers consider.
 

Depp did have superb lawyers, but even though Depp had his drunken drugged crazy times, that isn't proof of abuse and also while it may not be a good thing- it's common behavior of celebrities. Pooping on the bed is so far out of the norm. I think that was probably the most damaging thing to Heard.

Depp also brought in former partners who stated he didn't abuse them. That isn't the usual pattern for abusive people.

[zachira]

I think the trial showed us what a relationship between a person with BPD (Heard diagnosed) and NPD (Depp) often looks like. Depp cannot blame Heard for ruining his movie career as he had pretty much already lost a lot of his standing and credibility due to his drugging, drinking, being disrespectful to crew as they never knew when he would show up to film, sometimes being many hours late. Heard seemed to be using false accusations of domestic violence to get Depp's attention, to avoid being abandonned. A therapist testified that they mutually abused each other. There was evidence (taped) that showed Heard as an agressive physical abuser, and Depp admitted to being regularly drunk and on all kinds of drugs. Therapists are often reluctant to say there is mutual abuse because usually one partner is the agressor in the abuse, and it was the opinion of many that Heard was the agressor and did not act like someone who was a victim of domestic violence.

[PeteWitsend]

Heard accused Johnny Depp of physically abusing her during their relationship in a thinly-veiled editorial she wrote for the WaPo.  

And she was "partnering" with the ACLU to become the public face of domestic violence victims.

Depp (basically) sued her for defamation, claiming it wasn't true and her statements cost him roles in movies.  A jury found him credible, and her not credible, and returned a verdict largely for him. 

End of story, except for our interest due to her being diagnosed or accused of being BPD according to an expert witness hired by JD who examined her.  It's interesting also that her plan to become the public face of sexual/domestic abuse victims dovetails nicely with pwBPD need to be victims in their relationships.  

[zachira]

What seems to be most relevant to members here, is that people with BPD and/or NPD often make false accusations which the partners are unprepared to deal with and often leave the partner at an unfair disadvantage in divorce and custody proceedings. I see Amber Heard as a person who did everything to make herself the victim and who lied repeatedly about physical abuse that never happened. I am hoping that the best outcome of this trial is it serves to educate the courts and others about what false accusations look like and how to deal with them.

[ForeverDad]

Well, paint me surprised.  Previously I imagined she would get $1 and he would get $2.  Okay, she gets $2M and he gets $10M.  I was just a little bit off.   In a recent interview she said she will contest/appeal it and then said she will accept it.

She also claimed her judgement will make it harder for female victims.  Well, that same could be said in reverse, that men have been claiming for decades that women are too often assumed to be victims when sometimes men are the actual victims.  This might be a bit of equalizing.

Will Depp get money or not from her?  Regardless, he did make a point, now he should put his side of the judgment in escrow so it is ready to be paid when she pays her judgment.

I learned many years ago that you don't jump to comply with an order until the other person also complies.  That is the Leverage of escrow, you are ready to comply, just waiting on the other party to also comply.

[BigOof]

Her (housing) insurance company is paying the legal fees (but not damages) - so she doesn't care about the fees for an appeal.

But all I see is her literally playing out histrionic personality disorder for all of us to watch.