Ending a relationship

[DallasCowboy]

I'll try to keep this as succinct as possible as this is my first post, but I have quite the story to tell and there's no way to keep it short, and I am desperate for some advice and guidance. I've been married for 11 years and I have an 8 year old son, and my wife and I started growing apart a few years ago, and we will be divorcing within the next 6 months or so.

About a year ago, I met a married woman and we started chatting and texting each other. I never thought my life would come to this, and I understand this is wrong and I deserve to be judged for this, but we started an affair and it's still going. This is almost entirely an emotional affair, mostly texting and FaceTime calls, but we do meet up sometimes at her house. I fell in love with her quickly when this all started - she is beautiful, funny, charming, succeessful, and she's a great mom to her 2 girls. I was head over heels in love and I couldn't believe I was having an affair, but also felt so lucky to have met her. We have even discussed marriage down the road, but she has no plans to leave her husband anytime soon because of her kids.

Within a month after this started, I began to see some meltdowns over some very understandably complicated emotions that come with feelings that happen with both of us married. These meltdowns started as hours of crying and hiding this all from her husband, to a few months later panic attacks, and a few months later, she was slicing herself with a razor. These were not suicide attempts but she sent me pictures and she was harming herself. Many of these meltdowns were triggered by things that to me were very harmless (not responding to a text until 15 minutes after she sent it because I was playing with my son at the time is one example, and there are 50 others), and they would always come out of nowhere. Almost all of them were "my fault" and I'd be sitting there in shock that she was melting down. This was all incredibly traumatizing to me and my mental health has been completely shot at times over the past year, esepcially trying to manage all of this in a discrete manner over text. I've tried to end the relationship twice, both times after we came out of these horrible ordeals where she harmed herself, and those attempts to end the relationship lead to further meltdowns.

I had to start going on anxiety meds and I started going to therapy for all of this and to talk about my impending divorce. By the 2nd session, I started opening up about this relationship and my therapist said "It's not my job to diagnose somebody without seeing them, but I an almost guarantee you she has something called Borderline Personality Disorder". To which I replied "Ok, what the hell is that?"  Soon after that, I stumbled across this site and I started reading people's experiences, and it was like I was struck by lightning. Hypersensitivity, poor self image (even though she's gorgeous), inability to regulate emotions, anger, raging, self harm - she has it all. Both of her parents are also recovering alcoholics and she has that gene as well. I would say 80% of the time, everything is great and we make each other really happy. But her meltdowns can happen at any time, and it ends up being an exhausting 24-48 hour ordeal for me every single time, just to help get her out of her "funks". They often happen on weekends when we are with our families, and I'm at the point now where I follow her menstrual cycle and I absolutely dread when she has PMS, because she has had major meltdowns every single month while she PMSes. And I now dread the weekends which is a horrible way to live.

I've read all about validation on this site which has helped (it's exhausting too), and I know now that when she comes after me, I absolutely CANNOT defend myself as it will make things so much worse. It's the hardest thing I've ever had to do, given some of the things she says to me. I also can't take a break and ignore her because that means that "I don't care about her" and the meltdown could get worse. I am completely and utterly spent at this point, between how exhausting this all is, walking on eggshells at times, scared of the next meltdown. She and I have discussed these at length but it's always "I need you to do XYZ so that this doesn't happen again", and she has never once apologized for her behavior. Again, most of the time, we make each other happy and she makes my life better, because the woman I fell in love with is usually there. As I type this, everything is fine between us, but I know it won't last. Her outbursts no doubt have impacted my feelings for her, given how badly she abuses me and makes me the villain, but I've stayed patient and just tried to be there for her because I do love her, and I am now very sympathetic to the fact that none of this is her fault. But I am at the point where I feel myself pulling away. This type of a relationship is not sustainable anyways, even if she didn't exhibit these BPD traits, and I'm sure many of you are reading this and shaking your heads at how complicated and awful this has been for me over the past year. I could type 50,000 words on some of the things I've been through but I'll spare you the details. Safe to say, the worst 10 days we've had during this relationship have been the worst 10 days of my entire life.

After a lot of thought, and talking to my therapist, I now know that I have to end the relationship. I have no idea how to do this, because this will absolutely shatter her and I am honestly afraid she might harm herself or even worse. Further complicating things is the fact that our kids are close friends and we hang out with them sometimes. I think I need to do this quickly over a facetime call, perhaps when her husband is not home but will be home later in the day. I can't even be there with her, and I can't even call 911 without blowing the whole thing. I know I've gotten myself into quite the predicament here, but I had no idea any of this would happen when she and I started chatting a little over a year ago. I will be asking my therpaist for advice at my next appointment as well. I am open to hearing any advice, judging, criticism - anything from this community because I NEED HELP.

[kells76]

Hi DallasCowboy, welcome to the site. Glad you're reaching out for support; you have a lot going on -- ending the affair, winding up your marriage, focusing on your son, going to therapy, and feeling like you have to support your romantic interest.

But her meltdowns can happen at any time, and it ends up being an exhausting 24-48 hour ordeal for me every single time, just to help get her out of her "funks".

It is very typical for members with a BPD romantic partner to feel like they "have to help" the partner deal with their emotions. A key question to start asking is -- Why do I feel like I have to help in that way? What would happen if I allowed my partner to develop skills to soothe themselves?

I've read all about validation on this site which has helped (it's exhausting too), and I know now that when she comes after me, I absolutely CANNOT defend myself as it will make things so much worse. It's the hardest thing I've ever had to do, given some of the things she says to me.

I see you've already done some reading about validation and not JADE-ing; good start. In fact, those skills can help any relationship you're in (including with your son and communicating with his mom), not just romantic relationships. And I hear you that those skills take work and energy! It's often not intuitive to decline to Justify our actions, Defend ourselves, or Explain "what really happened".

I now know that I have to end the relationship. I have no idea how to do this, because this will absolutely shatter her and I am honestly afraid she might harm herself or even worse.

Are you afraid that she would kill herself? And/or hurt her kids? Do you think she would make threats to that effect when you tell her you are leaving the relationship?

A core idea here is that we are not experts at assessing whether a suicide threat is real or not. It's not our job, when someone in our lives threatens to hurt or kill themselves, to either "just know that they don't really mean it", or to hurry over and "be the one to save them". If someone threatens to hurt or kill themselves or someone else, then we have one job, which is to call the experts (whether 911 or a crisis response team) and let them assess. If the person making threats does not like that idea, that is too bad -- we are not equipped to either determine that "it's not actually a big deal" or to "be the only one who can help". Just like fire alarms, we need to treat every threat as "the real thing" and not "stay in the house because sometimes the alarm just goes off".

I see though your thought here:

I can't even call 911 without blowing the whole thing.

What is the "whole thing" that would get "blown"? Am I tracking with you that you are thinking that if she threatens suicide, and you call 911 and send them to her house, that it is the affair that would get "blown open" and exposed? Or is there something else you're concerned about happening?

...

I think it's really to be commended that you have a therapist supporting you through this. Relationships with pwPDs (people with personality disorders) are absolutely the hardest relationships. It's never simple, and I get what you're feeling, that you can't just break up, that it isn't that simple.

That being said, you've come to a conclusion that is in line with your values, and you plan to see it through, and it sounds like the only question is How to end it with her, not If to end it.

Getting into details, it seems like there are a few "flavors" of how to end things. One is what you're pondering: the "definitive announcement". Plusses of that could be: you feel certain that you were clear, it is recorded (I would recommend this), you hope it will be definitive. Minuses of that include your fears that she would hurt herself, or worse, and (if I'm understanding) that the affair would be exposed.

Another approach could be the, for lack of a better phrase, "bore her to tears" method. Start paring down how often you talk and for how long. Have boring reasons to end calls (gotta go hang up laundry, see you next time). Be a little "down" or "depressed" -- be less fun and less supportive. Make fewer to no definitive plans to do things together. Get busier with other things.

Pluses of that approach could be: lower intensity of drama, no confrontation, she has more control over ending things on her side too. Minuses of that could be: if it feels like lying or being dishonest, it drags things out with no end date, there's no guarantee she'll get bored and move on.

All that just to illustrate that there could be more than one way to end the relationship, given your concerns. Feel free to work through different ideas here -- I know that others will be along, too, to offer their perspectives on options.

Glad you reached out.

[kells76]

I'll also add that for some reason your post reminded me of member Dad50, so here are a few of his posts if you want to check them out:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=349400.0

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=349406.0

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=349501.0

He too was working through a relationship with a pwBPD when both of them had kids.

[DallasCowboy]

Kells76, thank you so much for all of this! What a warm welcome to the site to recieve such a thoughtful response. Thank you so much for this. To answer some of your questions:

It is very typical for members with a BPD romantic partner to feel like they "have to help" the partner deal with their emotions. A key question to start asking is -- Why do I feel like I have to help in that way? What would happen if I allowed my partner to develop skills to soothe themselves?

She ends up regulating her emotions on her own, but she needs to see that I'm putting effort into caring about what she is going through, especially since it's "my fault" she feels the way she does. If I were to back away and let her deal on her own, she would take that as "he doesn't care about me" and that would make things worse. It's not easy.

Are you afraid that she would kill herself? And/or hurt her kids? Do you think she would make threats to that effect when you tell her you are leaving the relationship?

I'm afraid that she would harm herself. She would never, EVER hurt her kids - she is one of the best moms I've ever met. But she has been suicidal during the worst ordeals we've had. When her emotions are severely dysregulated, she almost blacks out and loses control (she has even articulated the "black out" term to me in the past). If that were to happen, all bets are off. While unlikely, she could even tell her husband about the affair. In previous times I tried to end it, she said "I will hate you forever for this" which is really hard to hear, given my feelings for her. But it's something I'm now willing to accept, as sad as that is.

I can't even call 911 without blowing the whole thing.

Sorry for not specifying - yes, I cannot do that because it would expose the affair. During one of her really bad meltdowns she was harming herself and talking about downing all of her pills, and I had no idea what to do. I even started searching online to see if I could find any pay phones in the area so that I could make an anonymous 911 call. Fortunately it's been several months since things were that bad, and I haven't been put in that position since. There's no way I can ever go through that again.

Thanks so much for everything you said, and a few things from the Dad50 threads really did resonate with me, so I appreciate you including those. This was from the 3rd thread you linked:

Fjelstad says that pwBPD are both unwilling to recognize and respect the limits of others and demand rights, commitments and behaviors from others that they are not willing or able to reciprocate.    yep.    nailed that.

I nodded my head in agreement at that one because I often feel like our relationship has been very one sided at times, where I do so much to try to meet her needs, and it's never enough, and she's always the one getting upset and I'm always the one trying to diffuse the situation.

I honestly don't know if I could do the "bore her to tears" method, and my therapist even said "make her hate you, it'll make the breakup so much easier". Both of these are hard for me because I would just be faking something to make things easier. Who knows though, they certainly are good options.

I need to really be prepared for the conversation, not only to make sure I have my main bullet points well thought out on why I can't continue, but I also need to be prepared for the armageddon that will ensue once I try to break it off. Once she crosses that point where she is melting down, she is impossible to talk to or reason with. And then things can spiral out of control into a very scary place. I wonder if meeting her in public might make things less likely to spiral out of control. At home, she has access to razors, pills, etc. but part of me is scared that if I ended it in public, she might drive her car into a tree if she was completely and totally dysregulated. This sucks.

[DallasCowboy]

We’re in the middle of a massive blowup as we speak. I am being called every name in the book (over text) and she also just said “you are a really bad person”. All because I always put my son ahead of her and she doesn’t like that I cook dinner for my family because it means I’m somehow still madly in love with my wife who I’m divorcing soon!

I love her but I gotta get out of this. My mental health is completely and utterly shot. Any advice is welcome

[yeeter]

Advice.

Its hard to know how to end an unhealthy relationship, since there is no way to predict exactly what will happen.  But end it you must (yoda)

Detach with love.  Which means become less invested emotionally.  Take a step (or two to ten) back emotionally and pretend you are giving advice to a friend that is in your own situation - how would you advise them to behave/do/etc.

HER emotions are not your responsibility.  That is exactly a trap that keeps you enmeshed.  Detach.  Draw boundaries on ending it.  DO NOT get sucked back into the push/pull which is likely to happen.  Count your blessings that you did not get in deeper than you have already.  LEARN.  (Life is a series of lessons, be glad you learned this one before its too late and dont repeat).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Bridge

by Edwin Friedman
There was a man who had given much thought to what he wanted from life. He had experienced many setbacks and trials. He had experimented with different ways of living, and he had his share of both success and failure. At last, he began to see clearly where he wanted to go. Diligently, he searched for the right opportunity. Sometimes he came close, only to be pushed away. Often, he applied his strength and imagination only to find the path hopelessly blocked. And then it came to him. But the opportunity would not wait. If it were perceived that he was not committed, the opportunity would not come again. Eager to arrive, he started his journey. With each step, he wanted to move faster; with each thought about his goal, his heart beat quicker; with each vision of what lay ahead, he found renewed vigor. Strength that had left him long ago had now returned, and desires, all kinds of desires, awakened from their long-dormant positions. Hurrying along, he came upon a bridge that crossed through the middle of a town. It had been built high above a river to protect it from the floods of the melting winter snow.

He started across. Then he noticed someone coming from the opposite direction. As they moved closer, it seemed as though the other person was coming to greet him. He could see clearly, however, that he did not know this person, who was dressed similarly except for something tied around his waist.

When they were within speaking distance, he could see that what the other had around his waist was a rope. It was wrapped around him many times and probably, if extended, would reach 30 feet.

The other began to uncurl the rope. Just as they were coming close to one another, the stranger said, “Pardon me, would you be so kind to hold the end of my rope for a moment?”

Surprised by this politely phrased, but curious request, he agreed, reached out and took it.

“Thank you,” said the other, who handed it over, “two hands now, and remember, hold tight.” Then, the other jumped off the bridge.

Quickly, the free-falling body plunged the distance of the rope’s length, and from the bridge the man felt the pull. Instinctively, he held tight and was almost pulled over the side. He managed to brace himself against the edge, however, and after catching his breath, looked down at the other dangling, close to oblivion.

“What are you trying to do?” he yelled.

“Just hold tight,” said the other.

“This is ridiculous,” the man thought and began trying to haul up the other to the top of the bridge. He could not get the leverage, however. It was as though the weight of the other person and the length of the rope had been carefully calculated in advance so that together they created the perfect counterweight just beyond his strength to bring the other to safety.

“Why did you do this?” the man called out.

“Remember,” said the other, “if you let go, I will be lost.”

“But I can’t pull you up,” the man cried.

“I am your responsibility,” said the other.

“Well, I didn’t ask for it,” the man replied.

“If you let go, I will be lost,” repeated the other.

He began to look around for help. But there was no one. How long would he have to wait? Why did this have to happen now, just as he was on the verge of success? He examined the side of the bridge, searching for a place to tie the rope, some protrusion, perhaps, or maybe a hole in one of the boards. But the railing was unusually uniform in shape and there were no spaces between the boards. There was no way to get rid of this newfound burden, even temporarily.

“What do you want?” he asked the other hanging below.

“Just your help,” the other answered.

“How can I help? I cannot pull you in, and there is no place to tie the rope so I can go and find someone to help me help you.”

“I know that. Just hang on; that will be enough. Tie the rope around your waist; it will be easier.”

Fearing that his arms could not hold out much longer, he tied the rope around his waist.

“Why did you do this,” he asked again. “Don’t you see what you have done? What possible purpose could you have in mind?”

“Just remember,” said the other, “my life is in your hands.”

What should he do? “If I let go, all my life I will know that I let this other die. If I stay, I risk losing my momentum toward my dream. Either way, it will haunt me forever.” With ironic humor he thought about dying himself by jumping off the bridge, too. “That would teach this fool.” But he wanted to live and live life fully. “What a choice I have to make,” he said to himself.

A thought occurred to him. While he could not pull up the other solely by his own efforts, if the other would shorten the rope from his end by curling it around his waist over and over, together they could do it. Actually the other could do it by himself, so long as he, standing on the bridge, kept it still and steady.

“Now listen,” he shouted down. “I think I know how to save you.” He explained his plan.

But the other wasn’t interested.

“You mean you won’t help? But I told you I can’t pull you up myself, and I don’t think I can hang on much longer either.”

“You must try,” the other shouted back in tears. “If you fail, I will die.”

The point of decision arrived. What should he do? “My life or his?” And then a new idea, A revelation. So new, in fact, it seemed sacrilegious, so alien to his traditional way of thinking.

“I want you to listen carefully,” he said, “because I mean what I’m about to say. I will not accept the position of choice for your life, only for my own; the position of choice for your own life I hereby give back to you.”

“What do you mean?” the other said, afraid.

“I mean, simply, it’s up to you. You decide which way this ends. I will become the counterweight. You do the pulling and bring yourself up. I will even tug a little from here.” He began unwinding the rope from around his waist and braced himself against the side of the bridge.

“You cannot mean what you say,” the other shrieked. “You would not be so selfish. I am your responsibility. What could be so important that you let someone die? Do not do this to me.”

He waited a moment. There was no change in the tension of the rope.

“I accept your choice,” he said, and freed his hands.

[DallasCowboy]

Thank you for all of this! I will be ending it with her within the next day or two. I’m making peace with the fact that she will rage against me and hate me for a long time. It’s tough but I don’t have a choice

[Skip]

Some of the advice you have here is to back away slowly.  Its good advice of you are strong enough (you sound like you are).

A sudden and full breakup will amp up the emotions and she could do something harmful - confide in her husband, loss it such that the kids realize you are sleeping around on their mom, or contact your wife, or hurt herself, or...

Just space the texts out a little slower. Give subtle hint you are not to interested in what she is talking about. Regardless of what she says, don't express any emotion - don't let her push any button,

Inch out. She will let you as long as you stay miles away from drama.

Her: I'm going to smash my face in a mirror.
You: Don't do that, that would be terrible... opps, I have another call coming in, I'll be right back.

You: OK, I'm back. That was my old friend Tim, he wants to play golf tomorrow. Happy to hear from him, looking forward to it.
Her: The mirror, did you forget?
You: Oh, certainly not, that would be terrible. Did you call your therapist?

And over exaggeration, buy does this make sense?

[DallasCowboy]

This already happened today. I took my son out for lunch after she had calmed down a bit. Then while I’m out I get a flurry of texts saying she’s having a panic attack and she wants to die. I was driving home and I didn’t respond until after I read these when I got back, and now she’s talking over text about killing herself. This is so awful, I can’t call 911 and I can’t go over to her house.

[livednlearned]

It may be that she senses you are pulling away (if you haven't said so yet).

pwBPD are extraordinarily hypersensitive to abandonment and can sense these things even before we admit to ourselves what we're feeling.

Do you know if she has a therapist?

[DallasCowboy]

That is a great point because I have been slowly pulling away. All of the amazing things that come with her have kept me fighting, but these last few weeks have especially had me reconsidering everything. I actually went back through our texts and we have had 1 good weekend in the last 8, where we had no "blow ups". This is no way to live.

She does not have a therapist. When I tried to end this several months ago, I urged her to see someone and she got very offended. She has alluded to the fact that she has "mental health issues", and I think she's afraid of facing the truth.

[livednlearned]

If she senses you are pulling away, she may try the thing most likely to keep you close, especially if it's successful at accomplishing goals (like getting your attention).

The problem as you point out is that this isn't a sustainable. Next time she might push things further since a little of x worked so a lot must be better.

How did you respond to her?

[DallasCowboy]

We haven't spoken in a few hours because she's been out at a friend's house with her family. I imagine she'll be coming out of this episode tomorrow, so I may pull the trigger then and end this. I plan on going completely no contact after this conversation as well, and I will tell her that up front so there are no surprises. I think it's the only way we can really move on, and she'll be on her own when it comes to managing her emotions. It's a gamble but I don't see any other choice.

[livednlearned]

What do you think about Skip's advice to wind things down slowly?

Not only for her sake, for yours too.

The full weight of these emotional reactions can be intense, as you know. Do you feel prepared for the escalation that will follow something abrupt?

What part is the gamble?

[DallasCowboy]

Doing it gradually will be pure torture. She will sense me really pulling away and she will rage against me and probably spiral out of control again. The gamble of ending it abruptly is that she may actually hurt herself or worse, because once I end it, I'm going full blown no contact. And there's also the slight chance she reveals the affair because she melts down so badly.

And just an update, I sent her a text while she was out and saw she didn't read it, so I left her alone, knowing she was out with friends. A few hours later she's back home now and she's raging that I didn't check in more with her, and now she's talking about downing a bunch of pills. I take these threats seriously but thus far they've always been a bluff. This is such a mess.

[livednlearned]

Doing it gradually will be pure torture.

She is likely in a perpetual state of torture already. Having BPD is torture for pwBPD.

A father whose daughter has BPD once told me in a Family Connections workshop, "BPD is a fatal disease." Suicidality is high in pwBPD.

Gradual disengagement is about changing the way you respond, managing your own emotions as she tests boundaries. If she shows you pictures of cutting and you drop everything and come to her, gradual disengagement helps change that narrative to something less satisfying, like offering to text a number she can call.

Unless you meant that gradual would be torture for you?

This is about looking more at the disorder and how it tends to be, versus what you two are like specifically and what she may have going on that you don't know about. She could have someone else lined up, or be seeking affection from her husband as she senses your distance, for example.

People with dizzying fears of abandonment will have multiple strategies working to avoid perceived or real abandonment. You may be one among others she relies on to help protect her from the emptiness she feels when one person pulls away.

I'm going full blown no contact.

Is that possible? It sounds like you have overlapping social circles.

I take these threats seriously but thus far they've always been a bluff. This is such a mess.

Have you responded to her threat?

[DallasCowboy]

Unless you meant that gradual would be torture for you?

Yes, pure torture for me. This is already so exhausting and I'm completely and utterly at my wits end at this point. If she were my wife, this would be a completely different story. She wants me to swoop in and save her when she's like this, and how exactly do I do that over text? And with her life potentially at stake, it's a burden I can't bear. The thought of gradually easing my way out of this over the next month or two just sounds like pure torture to me.

Regarding the no contact, no it's not 100% possible because our kids do hang out. But between she and I, it will be fully no contact.

Have you responded to her threat?

Yes, I always respond right away. I don't really know what to say, other than to let her know I'm here for her but thus far today they have all been bluffs. I think she might be asleep now so at least I'm in the clear until tomorrow.

[livednlearned]

There is a rhyme to reason with BPD behaviors.

A clean split might seem like a quick exit. More likely it will be followed by drama at another level.

I left abruptly and was in court on average once a month for four years.

She will need to process things somehow. The gamble seems risky and the downsides could make this period look like a picnic.

Some of this is about setting better boundaries and then managing how you handle them. Telling her, "I will be out of pocket for an hour. I'll check my phone in an hour." Then do it. Come here for support as your tolerate the discomfort of not responding, or work through that hour in therapy to learn more where this comes from.

It's like breaking an addiction. Finding the thing that will help you get through those second-to-second urges and then figuring out what works, until you (and she) are managing longer stretches.

It doesn't have to take a month. You have more options than may seem obvious. Right now things feel like they're on tilt because she is.

Tomorrow she might feel like today never even happened.

[Skip]

Dallas,

It might be good to take a 35,000 ft look at what is playing out.



An affair is like a three legged stool with the marriage/kids typically being 2 legs and the affair being 1. Or put another way, the affair is like icing on a cake. The marriage is OK, but lacking in one or two really important things to make it great, and the affair provides that supplement. This dynamic is rarely understood by the participants.

Cut off a leg and everything falls to the ground and the married participants will scramble for dear life to restore the stool.

Setting aside and moral, ethical, integrity, child sacrifice or religious issues (we are not here to judge), this is why affairs are a bad idea. The dynamic is almost always lose/lose in the end as the supplemental value breaks down if one partner wants more.

This is also why affairs work best when both parties are married.

In your case, it sounds like you want more, which makes sense from your perspective - your marriage is winding down.  From her perspective, you are slowly making a mess of something that was wonderful the way it was initially.

Extricating yourself makes sense. Your marriage was also a three legged stool, the other legs are what fell and you are starting to see that what see is giving isn't enough. The best thing is to get into divorce recovery, affair recovery and get to ground zero so that you can find a suitable partner... but there are some messy steps you are likely to go through getting there and this could be a multi-year long process instead of a year if you don't face the storm and the pain that goes along with it, to get on terra firma. If this becomes a multi-year process, you kids and your relationship with them, and your view and your neighbor view of your integrity are going to suffer, and you ability to get into a healthy relationship (vs jumping into a recovery relationship - another common disaster and a huge source of our membership) will be delayed.

I say all this to tell you that you are in a valley that will take at least a year, probably more, to crawl out of. I define "out" and being a healthy partner, who finds a healthy partner, and rebuilds his life.  I know you don't want to hear this - no one does - but you won't be able to "unhear this" and it will help as you take this journey.

With all that said, I encourage you to reach down deep into the strength you have as a man, and handle this from that perspective - not from your woundedness. The woundedness is real, but don't let it lead you.

To peacefully end this affair, all you need  to do is slowly with drawl the the thing she values most. She will fuss about that, but as a few weeks go and she will feels the futility of fussing, she will seek another way to support the leg of the stool you represent and go away. It will be hard watching her slip away, and messy, but this is where you need strength.

And yes, going no contact will initially feel like strength, but it usually breaks down and the couple recycle in a more damaged relationship.

Skip


 

[DallasCowboy]

Thanks for this Skip, I really appreciate it!

In your case, it sounds like you want more, which makes sense from your perspective - your marriage is winding down. 

Yes, I want more, and I would love to have it with her (in a normal relationship setting where we are both single), but that's just not going to happen anytime soon. I haven't felt any kind of passion or love for several years, and now that I have it, it's like a drug.

Extricating yourself makes sense. Your marriage was also a three legged stool, the other legs are what fell and you are starting to see that what see is giving isn't enough. The best thing is to get into divorce recovery, affair recovery and get to ground zero so that you can find a suitable partner... but there are some messy steps you are likely to go through getting there and this could be a multi-year long process instead of a year if you don't face the storm and the pain that goes along with it, to get on terra firma. If this becomes a multi-year process, you kids and your relationship with them, and your view and your neighbor view of your integrity are going to suffer, and you ability to get into a healthy relationship (vs jumping into a recovery relationship - another common disaster and a huge source of our membership) will be delayed.

I agree with this 100%. The BPD issues are the main reason I can't take this anymore, but I also realize I need to just wipe the slate clean and get a fresh start. I have no desire to date anyone else anytime soon. I want to end this affair becuase my mental health is shot, and it's not sustainable in the long term anyways. And I want to focus on my divorce, and doing right by my son and soon-to-be ex-wife. Even if the divorce is final in 6 months, I highly doubt I'll start dating right away. I need to be single for a while and focus on bettering myself because clearly I've gone off the rails this past year.

It's possible she and I will circle back and remain friends long term, but I need to be strong and not let this relationship ever happen again.

[DallasCowboy]

An update - I decided to end it with her two weeks ago, and I did it in person. I broke down crying a few times (and I never cry), and we had a very long talk about everything. I told her I couldn't take the abuse anymore, and having her life and well being in my hands was a burden that I can no longer bear, especially over text. For the first time ever, she apologized for how she treated me and she said "I can't believe I've messed things up this badly." Regarding the massive meltdowns that would cause her to harm herself or talk suicide, she said "if I ever do that to you again, you can leave me." After several hours, I left her with the understanding that things were over. I love her, but the relationship had officially broken me. She had never seen me cry like that, and she was very concerned about me and she respected my decision.

HOWEVER, she convinced me that things would change, and that she would change. We had a few very long talks in the days to follow. As I mentioned, weekends were absolutely killing us and she suggested we go no contact on weekends, which I thought was a good idea. I told her a few days after I ended it that I would like to try that, and she backed off on that and said "let's just text each other when we feel like it, but we don't have to push it". I told her I'm done with the relationship we had, and I refuse to go back to it. I said "I'm putting my own mental health before you for a change."

Long story short, I caved and decided to give it another try. We've had a pretty good last 2 weeks, but there have been subtle signs that things won't ever change, which is obviously no surprise. My therapist even said "once a borderline, always a borderline". We've had two "episodes", both of which were relatively minor (but still stressful as hell) and both of these were again triggered by something that should not be a big deal in the grand scheme of things, and neither of which did I actually do anything wrong or mistreat her in any way. And now of course since I ended it and we are back together, she is having trouble trusting me which makes her insecurities so much stronger.

I can't help but think there's a timebomb that's going to go off any day now. I totally caved because I do love her and she makes me happy, but I know now that if we get back to the way things were, I have to end it and for real this time. The good thing is, after what we went through, I truly believe she wouldn't hurt herself and she wouldn't reveal the affair, so that does give me quite a bit of comfort if I do decide to offiically throw in the towel. I've never felt so torn in my entire life because on one hand, she really is amazing and we really do click, and I do love her, and whenever we hang out in person, it's great! But I know, deep down, this is not sustainable, and it's probably going to get bad again. I'm just taking things one day at a time.

[BigOof]

Re the affair, it is a massive, massive sign your marriage isn't working and you're seeking change. Don't be so hard on yourself about it and understand it for what it is: You telling yourself to get out.

[Manic Miner]

Sadly, I cannot help you OP with any tip or wisdom, but what Skip said was something all of us should consider. Truly something worth considering. Stool analogy in marriage vs affair was fantastic.

Wish you all the best and smoothest recovery. I'm very sorry what you are going through. Loving someone, being attracted to her, knowing you match together then deciding to end it all because of untreated bpd and drama. It's like a curse. I feel that.

[DallasCowboy]

Thank you for that Manic Miner! You nailed it - we always click when we are together, and once a week our relationship is a stress filled, ugly mess. As I type this she’s having a panic attack because she felt I was ignoring her earlier today, when all I was doing was chatting on the phone with my dad for about an hour. It’s all so delicate and so stressful.

[ForeverDad]

So you ended it two weeks ago...but didn't end it after all?

Have you considered advising her that you have to shut down your phone (to her texts or calls)?  I never investigated this but the night the police came to take my spouse away in 2005 she had just blocked my email address.  She kept my email address blocked for years, despite co-parenting a child.  She claimed she didn't know how to unblock it.  For all I know my email is still blocked 16 years later.

Of course, texting is a different process, but can you set, as a start, hours when her texts go to limbo or wherever?  You need breathing space.

[DallasCowboy]

So you ended it two weeks ago...but didn't end it after all?

That's correct - I guess you could say I caved which I'm sure is very common in this situation. We have had several heart to heart talks since then, and she is aware that I can't continue with the way things were, where things descended into utter chaos once a week. We've had one really bad day since we started this back up and one sort of bad day, over about a 3 week stretch. Much better than things were before, but it's still enough to give me anxiety about our future. I'm just staying patient and taking it one day at a time, but deep down I know this relationship won't last forever so it's really tough.

[livednlearned]

I guess you could say I caved which I'm sure is very common in this situation.

Common for people with matching pathologies maybe 

Many of us here came to these BPD relationships deeply wounded ourselves. The deliciousness of that deep soul connection combined with a tolerance for abuse and the breaking down of who we are -- that is not something healthy people find common.

What kind of support would you like from friends here?

We can walk with you and support you as things get more and more challenging. We can also give frank and candid advice about what may be uncomfortable to look at.

Both are valid.

It can be harder to look into direct sun 

[DallasCowboy]

What kind of support would you like from friends here?

Thank you for this! I honestly prefer the blunt, candid advice with no sugar coating. I know that what I'm doing is wrong, but I do love her and I feel a sense of loyalty to her. Some days I want to run away with her and marry her, other days I want the hell out of the relationship. It's very hard to find any peace or serenity which I'm now craving just as much as I crave her.

[livednlearned]

I honestly prefer the blunt, candid advice with no sugar coating.

 

Some days I want to run away with her and marry her, other days I want the hell out of the relationship. It's very hard to find any peace or serenity which I'm now craving just as much as I crave her.

The affair seemed to start as your marriage was winding down, while she is in a marriage that she seems disinterested in ending.

Some pwBPD experience fear of engulfment as well as (or instead of) fear of abandonment. She may have issues with both.

If so, it's possible that when your divorce is final (if I remember correctly, you mentioned this earlier?) and if/when you push for more and signal your availability, she may swing to fear of engulfment and begin the process of devaluing you in favor of her husband or another affair partner.

She may only have the capacity to be available when there is a triangle. Your leg of the stool will likely become wobbly when your availability shifts.

It can seem confounding trying to understand how BPD affects relationships but in the end it is not so complex and there are not that many outcomes after all. Instability in emotions, instability in interpersonal relationships -- these are fairly common trademarks.

You might be the mechanism by which she is able to stabilize her marriage and vice versa. The husband is why she seeks an affair partner, to ensure someone is there as she swings from fears of abandonment to fears of engulfment within the primary relationship. Like you, he may just want to have a chat with his dad, or spend time with others, or focus on his job, or nap.  He becomes temporarily unavailable, so she looks desperately for someone who can distract her from the staggering pain of the thundering drums in her head.

The details are irrelevant, whether she says she loves him or not, or stays with him for the kids, or not. No one can be present the way she craves. Having a self naturally means having boundaries, and many pwBPD experience boundaries in others as abandonment or rejection. The boundary must be overruled in order to regain a sense of worth, even though that feeling is fleeting. She will not be able to generate that feeling on her own so naturally she must gain it through others.

What is more important, though, is how the logic of your own wants and needs and desires are being resolved, and then not, by the way the two of you are engaged in this triangle.

There is something deeper and more meaningful here for you than whether you end up with her or not. Ultimately, this is about what you are trying to get that you don't have, but want, and whether this path will realistically lead you there, knowing what you know (and we know0 about untreated BPD.

[DallasCowboy]

livednlearned - thank you so much for this! I’m still fairly new to all of this so I didn’t know what fear of engulfment was, but after reading about it I can assure you I’ve never felt that from her. She does make comments about how she just wants her husband to leave her alone sometimes and not smother her, so she may be feeling that from him.

I’ve read your post several times, and it’s all so fascinating to me! You could very well be right about how I stabilize her marriage - certainly I give her things that her husband does not, like attention, compliments, excitement, etc and clearly we both filled holes we each had in our marriages.

As far as my marriage goes, yes it was falling apart well before the affair started, and the divorce will be final by the end of the year, if not sooner. And that’s another thing that weighs on me - do I want to stay with this girl who I do love, with all the BPD turmoil that comes with it, and all the complications of a relationship like this, or do I just make a clean break, grieve for a while, get settled in after my divorce, and look for a fresh start? That’s probably what will eventually happen to be honest but it’s so hard to let go.

[livednlearned]

I’m still fairly new to all of this so I didn’t know what fear of engulfment was, but after reading about it I can assure you I’ve never felt that from her.

If she experiences fear of engulfment, it wouldn't be with you. Yet.

Not until you were fully available and pursuing a real relationship. The appeal of an affair is that neither of you are available. The guardrails to real intimacy are in place. Remove a guardrail and that's when fear of engulfment would build.

I’mShe does make comments about how she just wants her husband to leave her alone sometimes and not smother her, so she may be feeling that from him.

This would likely happen to anyone occupying the role of primary relationship.

You cannot engulf her because you're the outsider.

You could very well be right about how I stabilize her marriage - certainly I give her things that her husband does not, like attention, compliments, excitement, etc

She may be getting these things from him. Many pwBPD (and many of us from dysfunctional families of origin) triangulate others in order to stabilize relationships. Telling you what she doesn't get from her husband sets you up to be the guy who rescues her. If you're codependent, you'll find it intoxicating to be her white knight. This dynamic is captured in the Karpmann drama triangle.

That’s probably what will eventually happen to be honest but it’s so hard to let go.

Given what you're shared here, it sounds like having a third leg on the stool (affair partner) is part of the way she copes with her BPD symptoms. Being with her probably also means accepting that there is a good chance she will set this dynamic up again. If she did leave her husband, which assumes you are getting an accurate portrayal of what actually goes on in her marriage.

I'll give you an example of how distorted reality can be for someone with BPD.

I have two adult stepdaughters. One is 28 (not BPD). One is 25 (BPD).

My husband and SD28 (not BPD) had a big argument when she moved in with us during grad school.

SD25 (BPD) was also living with us for the summer between semesters at college.

After the argument, H left the house to cool his jets. SD28 (not BPD) left to do the same.

SD25 (BPD) came out of her room and called her BPD mom. I was in my home office and she didn't realize I was there. She told her mom everything that happened between H and SD28 (not BPD) except in her retelling of the story, this all happened to SD25 (BPD).

Meaning, SD25 (BPD) either recognized that the argument was between her sister and her dad, and lied (to get sympathy). Or, she genuinely believed (felt) the argument happened to her.

Both are possible with someone suffering from BPD.

Everything that happened in our home was shared with BPD mom, and of the things I overheard, much of it was either not true or deeply distorted. SD25 lived in a different reality than the one the rest of us occupied in the home.

Some examples:

SD25 to BPD mom: They make me cook meals for them.
Us to SD25: If you want to learn how to cook let's show you how.

SD25 to BPD mom: They never include me.
Us to SD25: We're going out for dinner to celebrate our anniversary.

SD25 to BPD mom: Dad told me I'm immature.
H to SD25: Here are some things I think are helpful to know as you become an independent adult.

Does that make sense?

[kells76]

this is about what you are trying to get that you don't have, but want, and whether this path will realistically lead you there, knowing what you know

Being with her probably also means accepting that there is a good chance she will set this dynamic up again. If she did leave her husband, which assumes you are getting an accurate portrayal of what actually goes on in her marriage.

Stepping in again, first to say Hello and we're glad you're finding this space helpful to work through your thoughts and feelings.

Secondly to highlight what LnL said.

I hear you mentioning that sometimes you just want to run away with her

There's a way you would want that to go. What is it? What would you want or hope to happen? Might be helpful to spell it out here. I wonder if part of what you want/seek is something like "We would be committed to each other and only each other" -- let me know if that is off base.

And then it may be really important to ask yourself:

(a) Do I really think that being with her, that what I want or hope for would happen?

and

(b) Why do I tacitly think that she would never do to me what she is doing to her husband?

(b) is a really important question and it might be critical to discuss consciously and out in the open.

I wonder if you can articulate some beliefs or perceptions about yourself, that might contribute to the thought that -- "it would be different for us" or "once we're together, it'll be just the two of us [forever]"

While I don't have personal experience with affairs, I think I can safely say that it is a cognitive distortion to believe that someone who has an affair against someone else, with you, would never have an affair against you, with someone else.

Lots of food for thought -- again, I think I'm reading you right that you're up for some "straight talk", so keep us posted if you have different needs.

[DallasCowboy]

Thank you both for this!

Our relationship has been very much a “live in the moment” type of relationship where we just try to make each other happy each day. We both know that we can’t be together for real anytime soon, which is hard for both of us, so we just try to make the most of it. But obviously things go off the rails quite a bit, which makes me question why I’m doing this in the first place. Many days it’s clear that my life will be worse without her in it, but then when things are bad, all I want to do is get out and have some serenity in my life.

Sure, she could cheat on me if we ever had a real relationship in the future, but I’m not even thinking about that right now. I just want to take this one day at a time and make the most out of what we have, without losing my mind.

I’m not looking for anyone to to tell me “here’s what you have to do here”, but all the feedback I’ve received so far has been a huge help and I really appreciate it!

[ForeverDad]

I hear you mentioning that sometimes you just want to run away with her.

Is this reality?

Knowing already that she has real issues, consider what may happen...

• Does her husband know?
• Do her children know?
• Does your soon-to-be-ex know?
• Do your children know?
• Is there anyone this affair is fair to?

It has been noted here that after a failed relationship or marriage, especially one with a acting-out behaviors such as NPD or BPD, it is not wise to jump quickly into another relationship.  Yes, your marriage is ending, though evidently not due to dysfunctional PD issues.  The principle still applies, the word for it is a rebound relationship.  Even with the best intentions, they often fail too.

You need to allow yourself time to recover from your current relationship even if it wasn't a dysfunctional PD one.  However, your marriage isn't even over yet and here you are mired in a really problematic... Karpman triangle, probably more.

[Manic Miner]

It has been noted here that after a failed relationship or marriage, especially one with a acting-out behaviors such as NPD or BPD, it is not wise to jump quickly into another relationship.  Yes, your marriage is ending, though evidently not due to dysfunctional PD issues.  The principle still applies, the word for it is a rebound relationship.  Even with the best intentions, they often fail too.

You need to allow yourself time to recover from your current relationship even if it wasn't a dysfunctional PD one.  However, your marriage isn't even over yet and here you are mired in a really problematic... Karpman triangle, probably more.

Is there some article about that, to read further?

I do know what you are pointing at, to decompress and restart normal activities, thoughts to form and flow, wounds to heal.

But I was like, if I find a girl and we notice that we match together on a lot of activities, have much in common and like each other, why should I stop that from progressing? I mean, I could recognize a bpd/npd behavior from space now. All phases. I'm not the person that falls in love and loses himself in someone else. Never was.

Make no mistake, I have no affairs, but I was thinking about it a lot and daydreaming if my marriage falls apart and we separate. Could be that I'm missing the point. That's why I asked here about post-breakup articles.

[kells76]

Is there some article about that, to read further?

Manic Miner, and others tracking with this thread, you can start here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=69783.0

and see what you think about that workshop on "When are we ready to start a new relationship?"

[livednlearned]

obviously things go off the rails quite a bit, which makes me question why I’m doing this in the first place.

That's a great question. It's probably the most important one to ask and the hardest to answer, but worth its weight in gold if you can drill down and figure out what's going on!