My turn to get an "apology" letter

[khibomsis]

RW, this is exactly what happened to me. NW has it absolutely right. When I went into therapy, one of the most shocking things that happened is that my then partner and family tried to force me back into being the old me. When the old me had been suicidally depressed, that is how I came to therapy in the first place. The family system was actually threatening my life. It was horrible.

Now, many years later, my parents are dead and my siblings have changed. That is because I changed. They did not like it in the beginning but I gave them no choice.

Hope this helps!
 

[Riv3rW0lf]

Khimbosis, Notwendy,

Thank you for your wisdom and validation. I appreciate it.

I do think, in the end, that maybe I kept my brother engaged because part of me wanted to be seen. The little Riverworlf wanted her big brother to see what mom does, and to bless my decision to leave the family. And I just don't think it will ever be possible, because indeed, his attention and focus will always be more on her. He feels he has to protect her, and understand her, and of course he'd rather I stay in the family fold... truth be told, despite the distance, I was the most enmeshed, the therapist, the main caregiver among the children, the one she called and texted everyday. With me gone, I wonder how things will look like for my  brothers. But I find it interesting that the abuse does not seem to bother them.

But the most important thing is that now that I know this part of me exists, I will be able to manage her better.

And in the end, if I am to remain in contact with him, I will have to set a boundary that I won't discuss anything regarding my mother and our past with him. Nor with my other brother for that matter...

And I don't blame them. In the end : they were victims of her abuse too. But I can't shake the feeling that he developped a NPD with a community type. My other brother is a diagnosed bipolar with drug addictions... And I am left wondering how I ended up here, seemingly unscathed compared to them. Or are my eyes wide shut to something else...

We will see how all of this evolves. But today, I feel much better. I went to bed early last night, went for a run this morning, and I decided it was a beautiful day, that I would keep it that way and that I don't have time for toxic people  

[zachira]

You might want to request that your brother not discuss anything about you with your mother or any other relative or family friends. I did this with my brother with BPD concerning my sister with NPD, and he seems to have maintained the boundary, despite taking her side most of the time.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Zachira,

I see often this boundary as something being discussed here and proposed, and I do wonder why is that so? Is it to keep my brother from being triangulated against me? Or to not give her tools against me? Have you experienced issues with no contact and someone talking about you with them, that they somehow found a way to use despite the no contact?

[WalkbyFaith]

Riverwolf, oh I can so sympathize with being in this place of tense and futile communication back and forth...trying and trying to speak your own truth and get them to understand, but they simply can't. I was there with my mom and sisters, from January to April this year until I finally said "I'm done." My mother is still sending occasional messages, and every time, I want to reply, to explain, to defend myself... it is SO hard to let it go and not say anything. I don't feel that closure yet, personally, but also don't feel the freedom in my soul to say anything else yet.

The little Riverwolf wanted her big brother to see what mom does, and to bless my decision to leave the family. And I just don't think it will ever be possible, because indeed, his attention and focus will always be more on her. He feels he has to protect her, and understand her, and of course he'd rather I stay in the family fold.

Letting go of siblings is the hardest part of this, I think. I can say goodbye to my relationship with my mother, though it's painful...but to lose my siblings as well because they will always be loyal to her... is heart breaking. I understand your feelings of wanting your brother to understand and see from your perspective, and agree that it's probably not possible for him, at least for now.

Ask little Riv3rwolf if this is how she describes her mother? Because the things that my Mom wrote about ME is how little me describes my abusive mother.

Im1109, this was a fascinating point. Thanks for sharing. Something to think about.

Being NC is emotionally much more difficult than I expected. Riverwolf I hope you find the support you need.

[lm1109]

The pull of family dynamics is strong. Your brother stepped in to do what he thought was the right thing to do. Don't be hard on yourself for wanting to do what he suggested. I don't think we stop wanting to be on good terms with our family members, even if our attempts to do this don't turn out how we wished they would.

Not all family members have the same experience with a disordered person, or they are enmeshed and don't see it. My mother's FOO is more sympathetic to her. I also have tried to prove to them that I am a nice person, deserving of their acknowledgement and attention, yet she remains their focus. I have just accepted that anyone connected to my mother is influenced by her and I remain cordial but not too involved with them.

One interesting aspect about dysfunctional family dynamics is that, when everyone does their part, the family feels more stable. If one family member steps out of the dynamic, it upsets that balance and all family members feel a sense of unease. They react by trying to get the family member back into their role to get back to that balance. If the family member does not, then the family has to rebalance- and that sometimes means casting out that family member. Your brother was acting in accordance to this.

This is really helpful and SO very true.

I went to the park with my children, played with them, met another mom who wanted to hang and have play date with us. It felt good. I am not a monster. I am a nice person, and my children are happy children. We made a sand dessert, my daughter was happy. Left my phone in the car and connected back to the moment for one hour and a half, and it felt good.

This is great Riv3rwolf... I've really been trying to focus on the delicate balance of processing my pain/grief while also being mindful and enjoying my life as well. The balance can be a real struggle for me..I am prone to bypassing...even Spiritually bypassing my pain. However, I can also find myself being completely overwhelmed and spending entirely TOO much of my day on processing and "figuring things out." Since we can't really "plan" when we have memories and need to process...I've been dedicating time slots to put away my phone and forget the world...exercise, play with my kids or dog, read, pray, etc. For me...I was finding myself filling all of my quiet moments...I'd listen to a podcast that would trudge up memories or emotions, etc. I was never giving myself the mental break that I needed. I ended up having a really interesting situation on my Birthday...I thought one of my parents would reach out(specifically my Dad) I am a Mom and I can't imagine one of my children's birthdays passing without, at the very least, acknowledging that they are loved and telling them that I'm happy they're alive(regardless of anything) It didn't happen...I was hurt(I didn't "DO" anything...except stick up for myself and tell them that I needed to focus on my own healing) I found myself feeling AMAZED by their inability to be parents(for my whole life), amazed that it all ended up the way that it did and amazed that they seemingly learned absolutely nothing from my brothers death.

But... Another year older...another year wiser. I recognized that I had heard from my in-laws, a few friends, and of course my husband and amazing kids. I  had felt sad and then I had this moment where I recognized that what(and who) I do have in my life is enough. I thought...why am I spending so much energy on my parents when I can put that energy into fostering the relationships that give me joy in this life? Or spend that energy on creating new relationships with new people. I remembered a quote from the book Wild by Cheryl Strayed:
 "That was my father: the man who hadn’t fathered me. It amazed me every time. Again and again and again. Of all the wild things, his failure to love me the way he should have had always been the wildest thing of all. But on that night as I gazed out over the darkening land fifty-some nights out on the PCT, it occurred to me that I didn’t have to be amazed by him anymore. There were so many other amazing things in this world.”
— Cheryl Strayed

We will see how all of this evolves. But today, I feel much better. I went to bed early last night, went for a run this morning, and I decided it was a beautiful day, that I would keep it that way and that I don't have time for toxic people 

 

Sending lots of support

[zachira]

Riv3rW0lf,
You are wanting to better understand my suggestion that you ask your brother to not give your mother, other family members, and other people information about you. I suggest you learn everything you can about flying monkeys and how they operate. Dr. Ramani has some good videos on youtube on this subject. Going no contact/low contact with my NPD sister and other family members and family friends, who engage in putting the golden children on a pedestal no matter how cruel they are, and who bully the scapegoats like me, has taught me a lot. I realized, I was enabling the abuse of myself and others, by giving out information to flying monkeys that was just used to further enable my NPD sister and others to abuse me more. Now I limit my contact with the flying monkeys and lie to the flying monkeys when it is in my best interests, which helps me to limit the ability of my NPD sister and others to abuse me. Being a flying monkey, is abuse by proxy. If there were no flying monkeys, the abusers would be held accountable for their behaviors and would have their ability to abuse others limited.

[Notwendy]

I agree about identifying the flying monkeys. There can be another dynamic at play as well- involving the Karpman triangle. I think these dynamics can be done without someone even being conscious about them. I know I did some things automatically. There was no harmful intentions, in fact, they were good intentions because when someone grows up with them, this is what they know. For example, stepping in as rescuer for other family members didn't seem dysfunctional. It was what I thought "helping" was because it was normal in our family.

Your brother may or may not be primarily aligned as your mother's flying monkey. We can play any role on the triangle. He may also genuinely care about you, but this is all he knows to do. I have that kind of relationship with a sibling. I know that this sibling cares about me and also understands what is going on with BPD mother. However, I also know that this sibling can also automatically step into rescuer role with BPD mother- because that relationship between them is the familiar one.

I share a lot more with this sibling than I do with BPD mother. However, if there is something I absolutely would not want her to know, I don't share it. Not because I don't trust my sibling. I do trust them. I just know that BPD mother can push their buttons in such a way that they may fall into rescuer mode, feel sorry for her, and then in the moment say too much to try to soothe her.

This is in contrast to my mother's FOO. They are strictly loyal to her and act as extensions of her. If they engage me, it's to serve her needs in some way. I know that whatever I say to them will be immediately shared with her. Sibling though, is attempting to have autonomy. They just "fall in the hole" as we all might do sometimes.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Your brother may or may not be primarily aligned as your mother's flying monkey. We can play any role on the triangle. He may also genuinely care about you, but this is all he knows to do. I have that kind of relationship with a sibling. I know that this sibling cares about me and also understands what is going on with BPD mother. However, I also know that this sibling can also automatically step into rescuer role with BPD mother- because that relationship between them is the familiar one.

This decsribes exactly my take on this specific brother's relationship with my mother. But I do wonder what are the informations that you wouldn't share? Like... Where you go and when? Those kind of things? I'm just wondering what it is that she could use against me, I guess... I don't think she could get I to his head like she gets I to my other brother's head.

My second brother is the one that worries me the most. He cares about me, and he means well, but he says EVERYTHING, he would never be able to uphold this kind of boundary. He would likely discuss me with her openly, and then she influences him in seeing things a specific way. For example, he phones me, talks about dad, and ends up liking him and saying he is glad things turned out right between all of us. Then he phones her and when I talk with him again : my father is again the worst man in the world. Plus, he says he won't speak about my mother and I relationship, but then he slips small, fast comments about how she is doing, making excuses for her...he cannot keep himself from doing it.

I cannot say anything, else it is an overreaction, and I am told I am the one with a problem. So the wise path is to not engage with him.

But now, I find myself not even wanting to see him.

He is not a bad person, but he is highly attracted to drama. he is a drug addict and diagnosed bipolar. When he is there, he basically speaks none stop, and I can sense a discomfort between both of us. On the phone, or via texts: no problem at all. But in person, something is definitely off, like he feels bad about himself.

I wonder if this is not part of what my mother put in his head by always repeating him to take care of me, or to be more like me. I think he was the scapegoat, in the end. And part of him knows I am not responsible for it, because I never hurt him, and he genuinely cares for me, but my presence seems to trigger something in him. And I don't know how to act or put myself... I walk on egg shells...so I wonder if he isn't BPD too.

In all cases : having him around or a close relationship with him makes me stressed and anxious.

My daughter's birthday is coming up soon, and OF COURSE I made him the godfather (duh)...and I should invite him but I don't know that he would mesh well with the other people here... Also, I told.him I would visit this summer...and haven't gotten around to it because I am busy with the children, my thesis, work, my husband working and I feel the timer counting.

The thing is : I know if I don't, mother will use that against me with him. And if I do, he will tell her everything.

I am in a conundrum with this brother.

This is in contrast to my mother's FOO. They are strictly loyal to her and act as extensions of her. If they engage me, it's to serve her needs in some way.

My mother recently had a fall out with a lot of her siblings, when she threw grandma out of her house. Most of them don't speak to her anymore, except for a few who actually decided to side with her for some reasons.

When I was in early low contact, my grandmother was sick and ended up in the hospital. My mother let me know but I didn't want to engage with her, so I contacted my aunt who is a nurse, to know more. She is not speaking with my mother anymore. And interestingly enough, when I went to visit grandma later on at my other aunt's house, one of my cousins, who never spoke to me, contacted me to see me she'd like to be there. She got that I wasn't on speaking terms with my mother. She couldn't come in the end, and I was glad, because I have no interest in embarking in my extended family dynamic either, nor to talk ill of my mother with them.  

When asked if I was going to see my mother, I said we were taking a pause of each other. My aunt said, it's ok, I don't want to know more, it is none of my business. I felt an urge to defend myself but in the end, I am grateful for her reaction and for disengaging from the drama.

Another cousin asked me about it, and I explained myself, and she understood quite well and said : you know, we are not our parents, we don't need to take sides like they do. And so, while I won't speak about my mother with her, I am grateful for her too. She has been through hell and back (lost one of her sons) and I think pain like that changes someone, either for the better or the worst. For her, it was for the better, she carries a lot of strength and resilience and wisdom, and she just doesn't have time nor care to judge anyone after what she has been through.

[Notwendy]

But I do wonder what are the information that you wouldn't share?

Anything that is emotionally sensitive, because that's where my mother can latch on to and be emotionally abusive. If anyone is upset about something, she can be cruel about it. Likewise, if you are happy about something, she can be critical and kind of spoil the moment. So it's not that the information is particularly private, but emotion seems to be a point of vulnerability that she may take the opportunity to exploit.

I do share my feelings about things with this sibling but not something I don't wish to be shared with BPD mother.

If the information is private, then no way, because she won't keep it confidential.

[zachira]

Riv3rW0lf,
You can lie and omit information if you need to protect yourself. Just think of how the information will be shared with your mother and how she will use it against you.

[Mommydoc]

Riv3rWOlf, I have been away from this board for a while and just read this post from beginning to end. What a rollercoaster you have experienced. I am so sorry.

Reading it all in one sitting, I was initially encouraged by her reaching out and your clear boundaries. When your brother reached out and convinced you to send the other letter I was concerned, and then just profoundly sad and angry on how it unraveled from there. It is so horrible the things she said. It is all about her, her emotions and she totally gaslights you over and over again.

I relate so deeply with you about the inability to be your authentic self with your BPD mother. And also with the pure mental and emotional exhaustion that results from constantly validating and guarding your real feelings. You will have to make your own decision, but no contact may makemsense right now. I believe your brother is well intended but too enmeshed to be objective. I would be wary going forward of his advice and listen to your inner voice.

You have a beautiful family and you are a great mom. I hope you can focus on them and yourself as you deserve to spend your energy on the relationships that are positive and supportive.

I think your brother and your mother love you. At the same time, it may not be possible to have a healthy relationship with your mother given her personality disorder. I wish you peace and healing.

[Riv3rW0lf]

MommyDoc,

Thank you so very much for taking the time to read all that, and to post this morning. I think you are right that a healthy (or as healthy as they could potentially be with a BPD) relationship will not be possible with my mother. Thank you for your validation and empathy, it helps ease the guilt of it all.

I spent the last few days doing a lot of processing to understand what is going on, the deep dynamic between her and me.

Yesterday I was watching Dr. Ramani, and it didn't sit right with me. I don't think my mother is a narcissist. And I found this little gem:
https://youtu.be/ANQQeKp2jYk
Which really struck me like lightning. And now I understand why I have so much guilt and why BPD is such a hard one to deal with.

If she was a narcissist, it feels like it would be very hard, but at least it would be clear that love is not possible. With BPD, there is a bittersweet flavor to the abuse, because she can be very empathetic and she does feel an incredible amount of pain everytime I leave our relationship. What I saw as attention seeking is actually intense clinginess. Me, looking at my children instead of her, is abandonment. Me, not acknowledging her presence the second she enters the room, is abandonment. It is a sign I am not 100% with her, and so I must be leaving soon.

This is what makes BPD abuse so hard, doesn't it? We feel responsible for them, we want to ease their suffering because I get how broken she really feels, how empty. And while I know there is no way forward, while I am aware she should never have been my responsibility to begin with, I still feel like the parent abandoning her child.

The rage, the anger, the angry child I so often become, was the only protector I could have. I have to hate her, to be angry at her, I have to despise her to not get swallowed whole in her void. Rage was my protection. An unhealthy protection, but the only one I could come up with as a child.

But I finally get it. I finally understand what happened back in November...

We left.

We went and spent a week to my in-laws to find a house. And it triggered her abandonment fear.

Then, she was dysregulated, and as such, everything looked like aggression to her. And she started hurting me, and taking my emotions as aggression, internalizing them for herself, which is why it feels like she is describing ME in her letter instead of HER.

She dissociated, doesn't remember things clearly. Could only see me as the cause of all her pain, the woman who would take her grandchildren away. Because MY children are now her main trigger, like we probably were with my father. And she treated me like the persecutor, hurting me and then feeling deep shame for the pain she made me feel. She could not allow me to feel more pain than her, so she made my pain her own, my fear her own. Because they truly are empaths, but psychopathic ones. And they don't even realize it. She robbed me of my own emotions, and made them her own, and then blamed me for them.

And the other part of  the projection is of course is my father, the man who abandoned her and took her children away from her every second week. The man she never could triangulate me against, and she resents me for it, she never forgave me for choosing to continue going to his house when he had my sister. My brother chose her, he stopped going to my father's house, but I didn't. I loved my father and I kept going there every second week. And this was an impardonnable affront to her.

Which is why she started neglecting me. She went from love punctuated by sudden rages to complete neglect, barely acknowledging me, my life and my presence in the house, I less it was to rage because I didn't clean well enough. She didn't care anymore, she was disconnected, making me pay for loving my father.

She only truly came back in my life when I had children and is now going through the same cycle, only I have the role my father used to have, and my children are basically my brother and I.

This is all so sick and twisted.

And it will be impossible to have a clean relationship with her with the bond she wants to have with my children. She will wedge them, triangulate them against the persecutor, me..
 
And what makes it hard is : it is all done out of deep, profound pain. She feels lonely, misunderstood, a void of sorrow. And there is nothing I can do... And it makes me feel like the abuser, in the end, even though I am not.

And this is why I hate BPD so much... Because they feel so deeply and they don't hide it. They are genuine, but completely dissociated from reality during an episode... And it seems I can only see my mother during episodes, because I trigger an old pain she never healed from and will likely never be able to heal from.

NPD is a horror movie. BPD is a tragedy.

[zachira]

Riv3rW0lf,
I feel like you are really starting to understand the true sorrow of having a close family member with BPD and how it is different from NPD. My mother with BPD and brother with BPD have been truly generous at times, and I feel sad about their emotional pain. My sister with NPD is truly heartless, and I feel her generosity is all about manipulating people so she can take advantage of them. I do believe it is more painful to go no contact with a person with BPD because if we are empathetic, we truly feel sorry for them, and would like to ease their pain. With a narcissist, the behaviors just become more cruel with time, and so it does not seem to be so hard to go no contact, once we have enough self esteem to do so.It seems like your decision to go no contact with your mother is what is going to work for you right now, help you to heal, and set the boundaries you need for the future whatever your level of contact is with your family.

[Notwendy]

It is complicated. My BPD mother fits BPD better, but she also has an NPD streak. Her demeanor towards me is cold. Sometimes she says something nice but it sounds as if she's faking it because it's still not warm. I find myself bristling when she talks like that.

Last time I visited her, she acted as if she didn't care if I visited or not. She hasn't asked me to visit since. I realize she didn't ask me to visit. I assumed she'd want to see me so I initiated it.

The visit didn't go well. She got angry a lot, told me the visit upset her. After I left, I wondered what to do if she ever asked me to visit her but she has not asked me. I don't know if she's afraid to ask after how it went or she really does not want to see me. Either way, I am not going to bring it up, because it's possible that she really doesn't want me to. She has asked the golden child sibling to visit, but not me.

Yet, due to her BPD, she does have a lot of emotional pain. I don't want to cause her to be upset and I do feel empathy for her that she has such difficulty but I also don't know if she has empathy for others. It's hard to tell.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Zachira, yes I feel like this last outburst, while it felt like many steps backward, was actually a huge leap forward. Now I know the real cause of my anger, and I can recognize it, while still having access to my empathy toward her. I used to only feel rage or guilt, and I can see why, and understand myself better. And now I can also see this rage is not needed anymore. I can finally rationalize her behavior, somehow, and understand where she comes from and when I come from. It doesn't mean that I'd want to go back, but I feel a bit more at peace toward her... Maybe forgiveness will be possible after all. And yes, no contact now feels more heartwrenching than before... Before it was out of anger and self-preservation, now it's because I just know it cannot ever change without her going into therapy, and she likely won't ever do that.

Notwendy, if you have 20 minutes and want to watch the video, maybe it will help you understand it better too. From what I gathered, Vulnerable/Covert Narcissism is often misdiagnosed for BPD, but to be diagnosed as BPD, you must have empathy. Some PD are co-morbid, but empathy seemed to be one of the biggest key point of BPD. They have too much of it, and from what I gathered, they basically absorb the emotions of the people around them, and cannot differentiate what others feel from what they themselves feel... The sentences of feeling like an emotional punching bag, or a sponge, took all their meaning when he talked about it in the way he did in this video.

Any emotion around them other than joy and admiration is taken as personal, they feel it and think it is either their own, or that they are responsible for it which leads to a lot of shame and self-hatred and self-loathing.
My mother does not do self-loathing in front of me, but I know she does it, in her general demeanor and the way she is, the lack of self esteem...

He really explained it well ... For me anyways. Hopefully it can help others.

[lm1109]

Riv3rwolf, the video you posted was very interesting...and the post is really insightful. I've struggled with this because my Mom seemed to allow her Npd traits to dominate over the years. When I read Stop Walking On Eggshells over a decade ago(wow) I felt like the book was written about my family. I resonate with her being mostly "the witch" this definition of witch on this site seems to describe my childhood with her perfectly

https://outofthefog.website/personality-disorders-1/borderline-mother-types

However, witch seems to be VERY similar to NPD...maybe moreso than other BPD types like...waif. So I deeply resonate with videos on NPD by Dr ramani and others. It's complicated...I feel that my Mom's outbursts have always stemmed from the BPD fear of abandonment...but I do NOT see her as having empathy. I've even seen psychopathic traits like when she got rid of my cat to punish and hurt me after I admitted to a friend about my eating disorder as a teen, threw my Dad's cat out of a car when she got mad at him, she once even called me up raging about a woman at a veterinarian office who yelled at her because my Mom brought a PUPPY to the vet and told them to put it to sleep because it was demented...the woman yelled at her for trying to KILL a puppy for simply being a puppy and not being able to handle it(My mom couldn't see anything wrong with herself..it's all the puppies fault and then this woman for yelling at her) my Mom then left the puppy there. However, when I was a child she did 'seem' to have an attachment to our family dog. So maybe her PD's have transitioned/worsened over time?

What you said about empath and absorbing everyones emotions reminded me more of my Dad(who is also an alcoholic) he seems to take on HER emotions completely. If he came home from work and she was enraged...he would immediately become enraged(even though he had no idea why) I remember that if I fell and scraped my knee or hurt myself in any way he would become overwhelmed and seem to get mad at me for being hurt? I actually saw myself doing this a few times when my children were younger and I had to consciously work through it...for me it did come from a complete overwhelment and also an intense feeling of empathy for them being hurt...but initially my emotions would "come out sideways" (so to speak) because it dysregulated me.

It doesn't mean that I'd want to go back, but I feel a bit more at peace toward her... Maybe forgiveness will be possible after all. And yes, no contact now feels more heartwrenching than before... Before it was out of anger and self-preservation, now it's because I just know it cannot ever change without her going into therapy, and she likely won't ever do that.

This resonates very deeply with me! Once the anger and self-preservation wears off we are left with the truth...they are sick and refuse help. It seems that you have the ability to look at your mother's situation with empathy and a level head and I commend you for that...I believe that is what leads us to forgiveness...which is ultimately for *us* and our own peace...not for them. I agree that you have taken huge leaps forward and you should definitely celebrate that. Sorry this turned into a bit of a rant...this post was eye opening. I feel like accessing my empathy towards her still seems scary to me...because it was that empathy kept me accepting abuse. I need to recognize that I can access that empathy for myself and my own forgiveness journey.

Sending lots of support 

[Riv3rW0lf]

It is complicated, I agree. Truly, the only thing I was able to explain myself is what happened in November and the current struggle in our relationship, and I gathered it mostly from her letters and this video. Your post gave me more thoughts on the matter, I'll share them. I don't know for you, but for me, when my brain understands better something it helps decrease the pain from it.

I resonate with her being mostly "the witch" this definition of witch on this site seems to describe my childhood with her perfectly

https://outofthefog.website/personality-disorders-1/borderline-mother-types

However, witch seems to be VERY similar to NPD...maybe moreso than other BPD types like...waif. So I deeply resonate with videos on NPD by Dr ramani and others. I

A lot of what Dr. Ramani says seem to apply to abusive relationship, in general, for me anyway. BPD abuse feels just as psychopathic as narcissistic abuse, and it hurts just as much, to be sure. It's just the bittersweet flavor to the BPD that gets to me.

I do have sweet memories with my mother, where we laugh and are having fun after we bumped into a naked man fishing, while we are boating on a river... my mom is telling me to pedal in the pedal boat, but the current is leading us straight to the man, and we end up with literally his sexe at the height of her faces, 2 feet from him, trying to keep a straight face, wishing him a good day and if he caught some fish. It was a beach of nudist, and we laughed so much... I also remember an event where my sister in law lashed out at me during a morning brunch and my mother came to see me outside and she was genuinely worried for me, and wanted me to feel better, another where she is making me smell the lilac tree, or where she is showing me a pie she made. And I can feel her love in those memories, deep love.

But like you, when dysregulated, she was a witch. Hurting me by using existing wound I had, pulling my hair when she wanted to "play with them", pulling an unready teeth out, screaming at me, blaming me for everything, throwing me a jar of glass shattering it at my feet... and like you : she called me at my father's house to tell me she would kill my cat because I was never there anyway. Always finding new ways to hurt me deeply. Called me fat, called me a slut after I'd been sexually abused. I was young and weak, and she preyed on me.

And now that I am an adult, she is mostly Queen and Waif.

The switch, the flip on me, the scare of another outburst, the not knowing which mother I was going to get is what made it impossible to trust her.

but I don't think a narcissistic parent would be able to convey a feel of love? But a BPD parent might... (I might be wrong though, maybe NPD can make others feel love too, this is just a hunch). Anyhow, my mother could show love when she wasn't dysregulated... Which was not very often, since, like I realized, my father is her main trigger and I am my father's daughter.

It's complicated...I feel that my Mom's outbursts have always stemmed from the BPD fear of abandonment...but I do NOT see her as having empathy. I've even seen psychopathic traits like when she got rid of my cat to punish and hurt me after I admitted to a friend about my eating disorder as a teen, threw my Dad's cat out of a car when she got mad at him, she once even called me up raging about a woman at a veterinarian office who yelled at her because my Mom brought a PUPPY to the vet and told them to put it to sleep because it was demented...the woman yelled at her for trying to KILL a puppy for simply being a puppy and not being able to handle it(My mom couldn't see anything wrong with herself..it's all the puppies fault and then this woman for yelling at her) my Mom then left the puppy there. However, when I was a child she did 'seem' to have an attachment to our family dog. So maybe her PD's have transitioned/worsened over time?

I've seen my mother hurt animals too, abandon them and physically hurt them, like she hurt me. Like I mentioned earlier, I also have a cat episode with her. What is it with BPD and cats ?

But I think those were during periods of dysregulation. When she was dissociated, she could become a psychopath. And she probably doesn't remember those. That's what I see anyway. And to be clear : I am not excusing her abuse, far from it... Just trying to understand the disease. She needed to hurt me as much as she hurt?

Plus, BPD is often comorbid with narcissism, so I do recognize a lot of narcissistic traits in her, with her critics, her baits... But the difference is she also has a very strong inner critic, which is also why she is constantly looking for validation and approval. But it doesn't feel narcissistic, it has a child like feel to it... Which makes me feel like the parent. 

What you said about empath and absorbing everyones emotions reminded me more of my Dad(who is also an alcoholic) he seems to take on HER emotions completely. If he came home from work and she was enraged...he would immediately become enraged(even though he had no idea why) I remember that if I fell and scraped my knee or hurt myself in any way he would become overwhelmed and seem to get mad at me for being hurt? I actually saw myself doing this a few times when my children were younger and I had to consciously work through it...for me it did come from a complete overwhelment and also an intense feeling of empathy for them being hurt...but initially my emotions would "come out sideways" (so to speak) because it dysregulated me.

I also have strong empathy. It took me a while to differentiate my own feelings from other's feelings. Even now, when my husband gets frustrated, I have to consciously make an effort to remember those are his emotions, not mine, and to find myself back... and I also have moments where my emotions overwhelm me and I lose patience and I know it is my C-PTSD, or fleas, and I have to make a conscious effort to come back to the present. I am better at it now, but used to feel so guilty.

Maybe you father was HSP?

I now see my mother as a highly dysregulated HSP, so empty that she thinks everyone else's emotions are her own. Which is also why she HAS to make friends with highly rational people, and never with someone who is emotional, else it is a recipe for disaster. And to be clear : I do make a distinction between showing empathy and having empathy. I think they have the skill, but they cannot show it to others... How could they? Since they cannot differentiate their own feelings from other's feelings, then they cannot know it is YOU feeling the pain... They experience it as their own, without realizing it... So the end result is abuse : making you feel guilty for your own pain, and making you feel like they are the one hurting.

I feel like accessing my empathy towards her still seems scary to me...because it was that empathy kept me accepting abuse. I need to recognize that I can access that empathy for myself and my own forgiveness journey.

I so very understand that. That's the other reason I hate BPD... My own empathy becomes a weapon against myself. And rage was my only go to. I have so very much of it... And I am very slowly starting to let go, albeit I do have periods of strong anger toward her. I think this is separation? Anger as a process to completely separate...

Just some thoughts. I feel that until my brain can truly capture who she is, and her disease, I won't be able to let go of my anger completely.

Thank you for your post because it helped me understand a little bit more... I know I can be wrong of course, but this truth helps me make peace with all of that...and in the end, I think that's what we all have to do : find, from our own perceptions and informations gathered, what feels right... Our mothers are all different too.

I find that for me, when what my mind thinks feels right, anger subsides, because I feel more solid and at peace with myself. I found truth, and often, this truth is born from a place of love and understanding. I feel like my anger is protection, but also a sign that I don't get it yet, if that makes sense? That it is still not my self in control. That I am missing pieces of the puzzle. When those pieces feel assembled, then I feel more at peace with it all...

[livednlearned]

I feel like my anger is protection, but also a sign that I don't get it yet, if that makes sense? That it is still not my self in control. That I am missing pieces of the puzzle. When those pieces feel assembled, then I feel more at peace with it all...

This makes a lot of sense to me.

Are the missing pieces of the puzzle the parts of you that were lost from a lack of healthy, safe parenting?

If so, I can see how there would be a near constant sparking of anger in response to healing.

Wouldn't a child placed in extreme *unsafety* feel so aggrieved, so livid? Your true self would know: this is not fair, this is not right. You maybe had some stretches of normalcy but knew it was temporary. More anger -- now you cannot trust even the good though you perhaps felt desperate for it, and were compelled to embrace it even knowing it was fleeting. Maybe you even felt anger for allowing yourself to indulge in that short-lived feeling of normalcy.

And it sounds like you have a sibling who could've helped but maybe his coping was to always be smoothing things over, which kept the unit intact but didn't necessarily keep you safe. Your safety was not the priority. More anger.

Your sibling seemed to have more abilities, more resources, he displayed tenderness and kindness, but in the end his own coping was to enable, and that can be even trickier because we place trust in these people, and they are deeply flawed. They are witnesses to the abuse and they may validate it, but they are not committed to ensuring our safety, not at the expense of what they are getting from the dynamics, the fantasy that they can smooth things over and fix ruptures, including ones we create by trying to protect ourselves. He could be trusted, but not entirely. Not when it came to your safety. You played a role that could be discussed and understood, but not changed. You served a purpose -- rock the boat but do not tip it over.

So while the anger fits with what you experienced (still experience), you are an adult now and can keep yourself safe.

But it is still you doing the work a parent was supposed to do, work even an older sibling could've helped with. Maybe he did some of that, but he did it poorly. After all, he was surviving too.

As you heal, wouldn't there be this anger about still being put in a position to parent yourself -- yes, you are more capable, you have access to all the levers and privileges of adulthood that you couldn't access as a child. But you still have to do this job that was supposed to be your actual parent.

Now, as you pull away to heal and understand, no one in the unit seems to appreciate how brave this is, how important it is, how much courage it takes, how painful and scary and essential it is. More anger.

Anger was the weapon that hurt us, and so we may associate it with damage. It should be a feeling that propels us to action, and it can be. It can also feel dangerous because anger was dangerous, it was the root of the pain. It makes us like them.

In my family, it is my uBPD brother who terrorized our family.

Healing started only when I asked for help to escape a BPD marriage. My n/BPDx husband is a carbon copy of my brother and father, fused.

Because my n/BPDx husband was outside the family unit, my parents could acknowledge the abuse and they helped me escape, literally. But when that wound opened FOO wounds, and I sought help from therapy and began applying lessons from my divorce to my family, it was a different story. There will be no help escaping abuse inside the family. For that to happen, I had to work alone.

For me, the missing pieces of the puzzle came from fully embracing the work of self-parenting. I no longer ask, expect, seek or trust parenting from my parents. It will not happen, they cannot do it. They cannot reflect on my childhood as adults because emotionally they are children themselves -- I was simply another child in a family of children. They were raised by children themselves so there is no other reality. Emotional immaturity and a poorly defined sense of self in themselves and others is typical, it's normal, it's safe and real and familiar.

I am something different. I did something foreign and dangerous and unspeakable. I reached outside the family and reached deep inside.

I keep a toe into their world by going through motions that make things appear like an intact family. I listen to my anger as a guide. Usually this happens during moments of profound disconnection. Depending on what the cause is, I change the topic, say nothing, nod my head, plan an exit, go for a walk, breathe deeply, call a friend, see my therapist. I find tactics that work for me. I found estrangement very taxing and also essential.

What I have now feels like an internalized estrangement, if that makes sense. I am able to take what I learned from the away years and find those parts of myself when I'm in their presence. I an draw from that pool of calm. I'm less inside the anger, or along for the ride. Now it's a turning signal, I think that's maybe what anger is supposed to be? I never erupted in anger like uBPD brother or golden child dad. I didn't throw weird adult child tantrums like my waif mom. For me, anger was something dangerous to express so it went underground and got buried, even though it coursed through me. I lost touch and lost insight into what it was doing and that made me feel out of control.

It's still like that, I think. Sometimes I think it shows up as anxiety or control issues, and sometimes it comes out as competition. There's probably more attached that I haven't learned yet but having words to describe it and a better grasp of cause and effect stabilized most of it.

A friend of mine had severe asthma as a child and his mother essentially kept him inside. He didn't play sports and didn't develop motor memory. After he left home and learned to manage his asthma he discovered a lot of sports. Without a motor memory, he had to break down what the motions were and think about them, then apply those insights.

I feel like that's what the missing pieces are kind of like. I have to learn from friends here, read books, talk to therapists, then try out what I've learned in my family. Then return to headquarters to discuss whether these skills are the right ones, are they working, what else might help, what am I missing.

In one of your posts you ask:

I reread it, and I don't know if it's because I translated it, or if it's because it's been a few hours, but I don't see it the same way, not as bad, the letter.

Is it bad?

***

The letter in itself is not that bad, is it?

The letter is not the thing.

The thing is how the letter made you feel, before you translated it, after you translated it, a few hours later, days later, years later. How you felt after you shared it here.

You are learning to trust yourself.

The letter is a mirror to that work.

It will look different depending on who you are when you read it, how you feel, what is happening as you change perspectives and stumble forward with yourself as a guide.

 

[Riv3rW0lf]

livednlearned,

Your post resonated so very much with me and I wanted to come back to it at a moment when I had an extended period of time to process and write.

Thank you so very much for this answer and for sharing your experience and wise understanding. You've given me words on feelings that didn't quite have the right words yet, and now they do. So from the bottom of my heart, thank you.

Are the missing pieces of the puzzle the parts of you that were lost from a lack of healthy, safe parenting?

Yes, they absolutely are. I am starting to realize that the healing journey I've been on since I have realized my mother was BPD has actually nothing to do with my mother herself... It is about finding myself, who I am, what I value and to learn to trust my truth and myself. Trust my kindness, trust my empathy, trust my assertiveness... To trust the adult I can be and am becoming a little bit more every day.

All my life, it feels like I have lived not to become who I am, because what I am was not appreciated, but to buy peace, and not disturb too much. So it's not that I lost myself, it's that I couldn't meet myself. Now I am learning that I have a place in this world and I have a right to take it.  I am discovering who I am and finally developing those healthy parts of me that had to stay hidden for a very long time. And as more of them are being met and validated, anger subsides, because I become more solid, more whole.

Maybe you even felt anger for allowing yourself to indulge in that short-lived feeling of normalcy.

I did.  Against my hope, against myself. This anger covered the deep sadness and pain my inner child felt to not be able to have a safe relationship with her mother. Like you though, I am now embracing the whole reparenting philosophy... A perspective that truly only became accessible when I became a mother.

They are witnesses to the abuse and they may validate it, but they are not committed to ensuring our safety, not at the expense of what they are getting from the dynamics, the fantasy that they can smooth things over and fix ruptures, including ones we create by trying to protect ourselves. He could be trusted, but not entirely. Not when it came to your safety. You played a role that could be discussed and understood, but not changed. You served a purpose -- rock the boat but do not tip it over.

This is exactly it. You described the relationship with my oldest sibling to a T. We are ten years apart, and I always looked up to him. And the last episode finally opened my eyes to the dynamic with him. And you decsribed it perfectly.

I will have to set boundaries with him. At least I know that with strong boundaries within myself, that he won't cause me any grief.

As you heal, wouldn't there be this anger about still being put in a position to parent yourself -- yes, you are more capable, you have access to all the levers and privileges of adulthood that you couldn't access as a child. But you still have to do this job that was supposed to be your actual parent.

I wonder if part of this anger was not also in reaction to my confusion. Because I didn't understand why they were acting this way.

As an example, I received a gift for my daughter's birthday via mail yesterday. It was from my mother. She had left the receipt in. Somehow I think there was a hidden message in all of this, but I didn't even look for it. I didn't feel any anger either. I understand her motive, I understand what she is trying to do, what she wants. And as such, I don't feel angered. And I remain strong in my own truth and boundaries. Because I understood, I also didn't feel guilt.

My anger comes up when I don't understand something that is clearly unfair. And it subsides almost entirely once I know why the other person acted the way she did.  I've seen that pattern before why my mother in law.

I imagine little Riverworlf was incredibly confused, growing up. She didn't understand why she was being blamed for things she didn't do. She didn't understand how her mother could stop speaking to her for weeks because of a simple desire to spend Christmas with dad this year. She just didn't understand what was going on around her, and no one tried to explain. And all the sadness born from this confusion and painful actions, she was deeply hurt, and a hurt animal will lash out, it will show anger and fear to protect themself from pain...

But then, the rage of a child can easily be turned around against themself, so the rage was bottled up and it stayed there a long time, and is still there at times : A rageful observer, who in the end is just very confused.

As I am making sense of my life, of my present, of who my FOO is, the rageful observer seems to transform into a simple observer.

Anger was the weapon that hurt us, and so we may associate it with damage. It should be a feeling that propels us to action, and it can be. It can also feel dangerous because anger was dangerous, it was the root of the pain. It makes us like them.

I agree with this.

Also, not too long after feeling anger, often born of confusion, I start feeling guilt. My mother always used guilt against anger. If I was angry, she would become waif, and I would feel guilty for my anger. But because the confusion of it all was all there (she even used it to her advantage, gaslighting me), because part of me knew something was wrong, the anger stayed, buried deep. I just couldn't show it and express it.

Children know when they are being treated unfairly.

In my family, it is my uBPD brother who terrorized our family.

Healing started only when I asked for help to escape a BPD marriage. My n/BPDx husband is a carbon copy of my brother and father, fused.

Because my n/BPDx husband was outside the family unit, my parents could acknowledge the abuse and they helped me escape, literally. But when that wound opened FOO wounds, and I sought help from therapy and began applying lessons from my divorce to my family, it was a different story. There will be no help escaping abuse inside the family. For that to happen, I had to work alone.

It must have felt confusing when it happened. Them helping you flee an abusive husband, but not being able to see the abuse within their own ranks. My mother is a bit like that, come to think of it... She would never allow any bad comments from my sister in law toward me or my other brother, but when it is her doing the critics and abusing us,  when it was my brother calling me fat and making me feel small, is was all tolerated as normal.

Abuse from the FOO toward the FOO is encouraged, but the FOO will protect you from the abuse coming from the world... In a twisted way, this is just another disguised way to keep us in line. "Stay here and I will protect you from the world, in exchange, I can do what I want with you and you will comply."

For me, the missing pieces of the puzzle came from fully embracing the work of self-parenting. I no longer ask, expect, seek or trust parenting from my parents. It will not happen, they cannot do it. They cannot reflect on my childhood as adults because emotionally they are children themselves -- I was simply another child in a family of children. They were raised by children themselves so there is no other reality. Emotional immaturity and a poorly defined sense of self in themselves and others is typical, it's normal, it's safe and real and familiar.

Yes, and it now feels I can also recognize the hurt children hidden behind my neighbors and people I meet. The people that don't feel quite right, when you know something is off.

Strangely I also observe now that I feel a pull toward those people, and I think this pull is some kind of flea from my past... They feel familiar, so it must be safe? But now I know it is not and my guts confirm it...

But I find myself reverting to old habits, people-pleasing traumatized people that are clearly projecting their trauma on the world around them. I should keep strong but part of me feels swallowed, this part is hard to keep leashed.

But I am aware now, so I know most of the battle is already done. Now I just need to observe and practice standing firm, to call on my inner healthy parent, because I now know how she feels, to remain true to my self, and not get pulled into bad dynamics.

I just want peace.

I am something different. I did something foreign and dangerous and unspeakable. I reached outside the family and reached deep inside.

Beautifully written. Gave me shivers (the good kind). I feel so much strength and wisdom in those words. Thank you.

What I have now feels like an internalized estrangement, if that makes sense. I am able to take what I learned from the away years and find those parts of myself when I'm in their presence. I an draw from that pool of calm. I'm less inside the anger, or along for the ride. Now it's a turning signal, I think that's maybe what anger is supposed to be?

It does make sense. And it seems like your inner healthy adult is in charge most of the times. Maybe one day I will get there, this gives me hope.

And I do think this is maybe what anger is supposed to be.

The thing is how the letter made you feel, before you translated it, after you translated it, a few hours later, days later, years later. How you felt after you shared it here.

You are learning to trust yourself.

The letter is a mirror to that work.

It will look different depending on who you are when you read it, how you feel, what is happening as you change perspectives and stumble forward with yourself as a guide.

 

Amen to that. I was in a fog. But my deep self agree with this, and this what I mean when I talk about the observer. Observing the world, my reaction to it and trying to figure out the pieces triggered to heal them. The whole world is a mirror to do that work, ain't it?

The only place we can see is always within...

Again, thank you so very much for sharing your thoughts with me. This was a deep read and processing, and this is why I come here... I don't have many places nor friends with whom I can have those kind of discussions, and I find I need those to feel whole. This forum is an incredible place of wisdom.

[livednlearned]

Your post resonated so very much with me and I wanted to come back to it at a moment when I had an extended period of time to process and write.

Likewise, same for me. I am trying to understand things, too. When I read what others are working through, when you describe what feels familiar, it feels like finding a puzzle piece.

All my life, it feels like I have lived not to become who I am, because what I am was not appreciated, but to buy peace, and not disturb too much. So it's not that I lost myself, it's that I couldn't meet myself.

What a wonderful way to think of this, meeting yourself for the first time. I have this image of myself as a doll with missing or broken limbs. I found ones that fit and attache them -- they work better. I'll never look like the original but all the parts work, I am mostly whole, but still search in case a new part comes along that works even better.  

not too long after feeling anger, often born of confusion, I start feeling guilt. My mother always used guilt against anger. If I was angry, she would become waif, and I would feel guilty for my anger. But because the confusion of it all was all there (she even used it to her advantage, gaslighting me), because part of me knew something was wrong, the anger stayed, buried deep. I just couldn't show it and express it.

This is similar to where a lot of my pain and confusion lives. I sometimes think I will remain baffled by my anger, that I'll always be experimenting and figuring it out, trying to understand whether it's helping or hurting, whether it's healthy or not. If you can't show it or express it because of abuse, then it seems that learning to express anger is healthy. But then we're like them.

I'm also unclear the extent to which my uBPD sibling, and to a lesser (but arguably more painful extent) my adult child mother intentionally set up dynamics like the one you describe . Do you think your mom set things up to elicit your anger so she could play waif?

My sibling worked in the open when it was just the two of us, but when others were around he worked in the shadows. He was constantly constantly working angles. A lot was pushed into the darkness and I just remember feeling exhaustion, how chronic it felt to be vigilant, hyperalert, on high alert, read the signs, anticipate the moves. It was competition for scarce resources, like starved animals fighting for scraps. But in retrospect, I felt so weary and damaged as a kid. What would I even do with any scraps I managed to get? Who wants scraps like the ones that were even available?

I remember returning home after having moved out in my teens. I had a large lantern type light fixture I bought for my childhood room, and for some reason, felt I had outgrown it. So I took it down. My mom went to my dad to complain without saying anything to me directly, and suddenly I was on the receiving end of a tirade, out of nowhere. Pure fury.

This is where I get lost. Did your mother set something up because she knows which buttons to push? And does she push those buttons because she knows it will rain gold for her, with no regard for the cost you will pay?

Sometimes I wonder if my mom hates me, deep down. If all of them hate me.

I read Eve Ensler's book The Apology, which is the fictionalized letter she imagines her father would write from hell for sexually abusing her.

What felt right to me, what made sense in what she writes is that abusers want to both have and destroy the thing they most deny in themselves. The thing they do not have or weren't permitted to have or can't have -- that's what they want. So they take it whatever way they can, even if they destroy it in the taking. Maybe they want to destroy it, because then you're destroyed too, like them.

It is the only time I've read anything that explained why family members would collude in abuse. And then profess love.

Children know when they are being treated unfairly.

I guess? I don't think I connected the dots between feeling hurt and traumatized and what was unfair. Not until later when it was too late.

Abuse from the FOO toward the FOO is encouraged, but the FOO will protect you from the abuse coming from the world... In a twisted way, this is just another disguised way to keep us in line. "Stay here and I will protect you from the world, in exchange, I can do what I want with you and you will comply."

Yes, and I also cannot draw attention to the fact that what I'm doing is protecting myself. It cannot be discussed. In fact, discussing it reignites the dysfunction. It's like being in my own boat with all the safety equipment -- they are tolerating that. The away years shocked them.

But if I point out that I'm in my own boat, that I have safety equipment, that they seem to be taking on water, then we are back to dysfunction.

I cannot draw attention to my newfound safety. I can only embody it.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I have this image of myself as a doll with missing or broken limbs. I found ones that fit and attached them -- they work better. I'll never look like the original but all the parts work, I am mostly whole, but still search in case a new part comes along that works even better.

I like this image too !

This is similar to where a lot of my pain and confusion lives. I sometimes think I will remain baffled by my anger, that I'll always be experimenting and figuring it out, trying to understand whether it's helping or hurting, whether it's healthy or not. If you can't show it or express it because of abuse, then it seems that learning to express anger is healthy. But then we're like them.

I guess... yes I may feel guilt also because I do not want to be like my mother. I feel guilty every time I feel anger, part of me anyway, even if I express is healthily. To me, it is like I never express it soft enough, I somehow see myself screaming and losing it, even though I am not? My husband tells me I usually just become very assertive and straight, but I don't scream, I don't hit, I don't throw things, and I am clearly not discharging it on my children like she was... So it is a struggle that while I know, rationally, that I am not like her, I still feel like I am when I feel and express my anger, even healthily. I think you are right that in the end, I just don't want to be like her. 

I'm also unclear the extent to which my uBPD sibling, and to a lesser (but arguably more painful extent) my adult child mother intentionally set up dynamics like the one you describe . Do you think your mom set things up to elicit your anger so she could play waif?

I think it is a real possibility. Even the last time I saw her, she was completely dysregulated. And at some point, I made the decision I would leave and made plans with my father. She did not know. I had a few days left and I decided to just grey rock and care for my children the best I could, despite my triggered PTSD. And she kept baiting and baiting and baiting ! And it became clear that she made it on purpose. She'd rather have me fight and hurt and angry at her, than grey rocking. I don't think there is anything worst for her that the disconnect feeling that comes with someone that is grey rocking.

And the less I bait, the more scared she looked? Her tactics were not working anymore. Thinking back on it, I think she felt stuck with her own shame of hurting me.

If I bait, and talk back, then she gets to act as waif and dump her shame on me, leaving her feeling good about herself. If I don't, she remains stuck with her own guilt and shame, and it escalates within her. And in the end, she looked like a scare, abandoned little child... All this because I wouldn't react to her baits.

So yes, I think they do it on purpose to achieve waif and "clean" their shame.

My sibling worked in the open when it was just the two of us, but when others were around he worked in the shadows. He was constantly constantly working angles. A lot was pushed into the darkness and I just remember feeling exhaustion, how chronic it felt to be vigilant, hyperalert, on high alert, read the signs, anticipate the moves. It was competition for scarce resources, like starved animals fighting for scraps. But in retrospect, I felt so weary and damaged as a kid. What would I even do with any scraps I managed to get? Who wants scraps like the ones that were even available?

Someone who is deeply starving for love and validation. I can relate to the exhaustion. I was always stressed. At her house, as a kid, I kept having nose bleeds. They stopped when I moved out. And when I went there as an adult last November, I started having nose bleeds again! I couldn't believe it... I finally realized it was my heart beating faster from the anxiety. My body showed all the signs, my head was just trying to keep above water. It is an impossible thing, to grow whole in those kind of settings.

This is where I get lost. Did your mother set something up because she knows which buttons to push? And does she push those buttons because she knows it will rain gold for her, with no regard for the cost you will pay?

Sometimes I wonder if my mom hates me, deep down. If all of them hate me.

Yes I think so. But I don't think it is us they hate... it is themselves. They don't see us. So they can't hate what they don't see. My mom seems to resent that I made it to a healthy life. I am still trying to figure out why... It must have to do with her own regrets.

I read Eve Ensler's book The Apology, which is the fictionalized letter she imagines her father would write from hell for sexually abusing her.

What felt right to me, what made sense in what she writes is that abusers want to both have and destroy the thing they most deny in themselves. The thing they do not have or weren't permitted to have or can't have -- that's what they want. So they take it whatever way they can, even if they destroy it in the taking. Maybe they want to destroy it, because then you're destroyed too, like them.

It is the only time I've read anything that explained why family members would collude in abuse. And then profess love.

I will put it on my read list !

I guess? I don't think I connected the dots between feeling hurt and traumatized and what was unfair. Not until later when it was too late.

Maybe not... I don't know, I just have this memory of me arriving to school after my mom screamed at me in the car for being arrested for driving too fast. And she lost it on me, started screaming at me in the car after the police officer left. And I remember feeling so angry. And I got to school, got out of the car without saying a word, and the first thing I said to my friend was how unfair my mom was treating me, I was 8 I think... Maybe I was just older and understood more?

Or maybe the fact that my parents were separated really acted as a shield. I could see my father treating me a certain way, usually with love, albeit detachment too. And on the other side was my mother screaming and blaming me for everything. It was so different. I often felt like my personality was cut in half and maybe this is why I could dissociate so easily, and not recall what happened at my mother's house. I am not sure... Something else to reflect on.